- 2 years ago
DreamStream Series - Smashing Pumpkins - MM-aRchive Session
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00:00:01MMR's Dreamstream Concert Series, 93.3 WMMR, Everything That Rocks.
00:00:08It is 93.3 WMMR in Philadelphia. Good afternoon, I'm Pierre Robert.
00:00:12Welcome to another MMR Archive session.
00:00:14Our guest this afternoon, growing up in Chicago, had music in his family,
00:00:18his father being a blues guitarist and, as the story goes anyway,
00:00:21it was when he went over to a friend's house and saw his friend's flying V
00:00:25that he actually started playing guitar.
00:00:27After a variety of bands in high school, he decided to pursue music full-time.
00:00:32In 1985, he moved from Chicago to St. Petersburg, Florida, with his first major band, The Marked.
00:00:37When it broke up, he returned to the Windy City and ended up working in a record store.
00:00:41That's where the idea for a new group started to take shape.
00:00:45Their first album was GISH in 1991, and they were off and running.
00:00:48After a number of very successful albums and extensive touring,
00:00:52they gave a farewell concert at the Metro in December of 2000.
00:00:56During the hiatus, a lot of projects, including Zwan and a variety of solo efforts,
00:01:01and they reunited in May of 2007.
00:01:04The group's been made up over the years of a large variety of very talented musicians,
00:01:09and throughout their journey up till right now, that has been the case.
00:01:12The last album, Monuments to an Elegy, was released in December of 2014.
00:01:16They're currently on the End Times tour with Marilyn Manson.
00:01:19They played in Camden on Sunday night.
00:01:21And it's a great pleasure to welcome to MMR, accompanied by Jeff Schroeder on guitar,
00:01:25the one and only Billy Corgan of Smashing Pumpkins.
00:01:28Thank you very much.
00:01:30Thank you for your time.
00:02:03We're just like our friends, we just can't pretend that lovers make amends.
00:02:17Oh, the reason's so unreal, we can't help but feel that something has been lost.
00:02:32Please, you know you're just like me, excited, I promise we'll be perfect, perfect, perfect.
00:02:56Strangers down the line, lovers out of time, it's memories unwind.
00:03:09So far, I still know who you are, but now I wonder who I was.
00:03:24You know it's not the end, we'll always be good friends.
00:03:48But the letters have been sent down.
00:03:55So please, you always was so free.
00:03:59You see, I promise we'll be perfect, perfect.
00:04:13Perfect, strangers when we meet, strangers on the street, but lovers while we sleep.
00:04:28Perfect, you know this has to be.
00:04:32We always were so free.
00:04:35We always were so free.
00:04:36We promised that we'd be perfect.
00:04:41Perfect, perfect.
00:04:47Perfect.
00:04:51Perfect.
00:05:08Billy Corgan and Jeff Schroeder on 93.3 WMMR.
00:05:13And an MMMR Archive session is underway.
00:05:15We talked about the record store that you worked in.
00:05:18What was the name of it?
00:05:19What part of town was it in?
00:05:20It was called Record Hunt, and it was on sort of what's called the northwest side of the city,
00:05:25which was kind of a bike ride away from where my father lived, and I just wandered in there
00:05:29one day.
00:05:30Made friends with the guy working behind the counter, and that started this whole journey
00:05:35of, the store wasn't very busy, so I literally would just spend the whole day listening to
00:05:41music I didn't know.
00:05:42You know, people would come in and say, I'm really into this person.
00:05:45And I think, okay, I'm gonna listen.
00:05:47I would listen to people I would never have listened to, and it really opened my perspective
00:05:52on how much great music is out there.
00:05:53And I got out of the idea that, you know, I'm into this kind of music, but I'm not into
00:05:57this kind of music.
00:05:58I realize that there's great musicians in every form of music, and you just have to dig enough
00:06:03to get past the BS.
00:06:04And a lot of times, like in a particular genre, there's always these big names.
00:06:08Like, you know, people say, oh, listen to this guy or this girl.
00:06:11But if you can get to that other layer that's maybe a little more hidden, you find these
00:06:14other artists that maybe have more integrity in a different way.
00:06:17And it really opened my eyes, and it had a lot to do with why I approached the Pumpkins
00:06:21the way that I did.
00:06:22I wanted a band that didn't have any genre, and to be pigeonholed at this point into alternative
00:06:27rock, which I don't even know what that is anymore.
00:06:29That was always something we fought against because we thought that was so limiting.
00:06:33Well, you know, I read that when you were young and you heard Black Sabbath, that was
00:06:37like a life changer for you.
00:06:38Absolutely.
00:06:39Yeah, my uncle was a drummer, and he had this incredible progressive rock type collection.
00:06:46So I was eight years old, and so you can imagine Master Reality had been out a couple
00:06:51years.
00:06:52I put it on, it was just that sound.
00:06:54To this day, that sound, Ozzy's voice and Tony's guitars, and just that monumental,
00:06:59kind of epic thing.
00:07:00Have you gotten to meet them?
00:07:02Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:07:03I worked on Tony's solo album, which was called I Omi, which is amazing.
00:07:07Wrote a song together.
00:07:08I've had dinner with Ozzy, and Sharon managed the Pumpkins at one point.
00:07:13We had a big falling out, and now we've made up, and now we're BFF again.
00:07:16Good.
00:07:17I love them.
00:07:18Yeah, it's incredible.
00:07:21I mean, meeting your heroes is one thing.
00:07:24Getting to know your heroes even a little bit is just kind of such a surreal experience.
00:07:28Let alone writing a song with them.
00:07:30Now, last night, you did just a great, great show over in Camden.
00:07:35And you've said that at this point in time, with this particular lineup of the Pumpkins,
00:07:40you think it's the best it's ever sounded.
00:07:41Is that right?
00:07:42Yes, I think that's a fair assessment, because the original band was never really designed
00:07:46to be the album band.
00:07:48Huh.
00:07:49The album band, as has much been discussed, we were sort of forced by circumstance, particularly
00:07:53because of the success of Nirvana.
00:07:55We had to be better than we were.
00:07:57So it put a tremendous amount of pressure to make these idealized records.
00:08:00Like, Siamese Dream is like this...
00:08:02It's like that band doesn't exist.
00:08:04It existed between me and Jimmy in the studio, but we couldn't be that band live.
00:08:08So we took a much more rough-and-ready, excitement-based approach live.
00:08:12So this is really the first time I've ever played in a version of the band with Jeff, Jack,
00:08:19and Jimmy that we can actually sound like the records.
00:08:22Well, you know, last night, speaking of sound, I was blown away by not only the sound, which
00:08:28was loud but very clear, but the force of the music.
00:08:32I could actually feel it, you know, vibrating in my chest.
00:08:36It was also an interesting thing I noted last night, and I don't know if this is purposeful
00:08:40on your part or not, but it seemed like you didn't want to have spotlights on you.
00:08:44Never.
00:08:45You were lit, but there was not much in the way of spotlights.
00:08:48Never done spotlights.
00:08:49You don't like them.
00:08:50I feel like a rat in a cage.
00:08:55Now, also, you said recently that you're kind of surprised that you're seeing younger
00:09:00people in the audience.
00:09:01Yeah, because so much of modern alternative radio type music is so not guitar.
00:09:14So it's cool to see young people that still want to experience that level of power.
00:09:19And I mean, when I say that, I mean, we're talking about people that grew up on Rush and
00:09:23people that grew up on Sabbath and people that grew up on, I mean, you name it.
00:09:26Yes, Jethro Tull, there's different versions of that power, not just the full-on Cookie Monster
00:09:33power, you know?
00:09:34Right.
00:09:35And it's cool that there are young people that want to experience, let's call it the
00:09:37psychedelic-based approach to power.
00:09:40On Monuments, there are nine songs, and on all of them, you have Tommy Lee playing,
00:09:46which I thought was the coolest thing then.
00:09:48It sounds great.
00:09:49How did that come to be?
00:09:50It's kind of Jeff's fault.
00:09:51Do you know him, Jeff?
00:09:53Do you know him, Jeff?
00:09:54No.
00:09:55No, okay.
00:09:56No, I don't know Tommy.
00:09:57Okay.
00:09:58How did...
00:09:59I mean, I met him now, but...
00:10:00Then how is it Jeff's fault?
00:10:02We were working on a...
00:10:03Maybe because I'm from L.A.
00:10:04Which song?
00:10:05Was it one and all, or was it anti-hero?
00:10:06It was anti-hero.
00:10:07Yeah, so we have this song, Anti-Hero, it's kind of like...
00:10:13It's got this kind of...
00:10:14And we were talking, like, we need...
00:10:17I literally said to him, quote, we need somebody who can play like Tommy Lee for this song.
00:10:22And he goes, why don't we get the real Tommy Lee?
00:10:24It's called Tommy Lee.
00:10:25Yeah.
00:10:26And the next hour, we were, like, holding our sides, laughing, like, what a crazy idea.
00:10:31Only in the pumpkins.
00:10:32Like, and then I, you know, the next day I'm on the phone with Tommy.
00:10:36And he said, you know, they were gearing up for the crew just before the crew thing kicked back in full, as they're on their never-ending last tour.
00:10:51God bless him.
00:10:52And so he's like, I'm kind of on a deadline, da-da-da, but if you can come out here and play me what you want to do, then we'll discuss it.
00:10:59And he blew out pretty, not long after that.
00:11:02I think the whole thing was, like, from the moment we thought of the idea to being in Tommy's studio, playing him the demos, and him saying, I want to play on the whole record, was probably, like, seven, ten days.
00:11:10Yeah.
00:11:11And how long was the recording session?
00:11:12Three weeks with Tommy.
00:11:14Tommy got the immersive experience of what it's like to be in the Smashing Pumpkins with me.
00:11:20There were times where he would throw his hands up in frustration and be like, ah!
00:11:24As only Tommy can go, ah!
00:11:26And I'd be like, dude, you're in the pumpkins now.
00:11:28You know, these, like, weird time signatures.
00:11:31But yeah, really, Tommy's just such a great person, and it's the coolest thing, same thing with Tony Iommi, when you work with somebody that you really respect and admire, and you've been a fan of the music, and then you're standing there, and you actually get to see why what they do or did is so successful.
00:11:48From an almost, like, an ingredients, like chefs in the kitchen ingredients.
00:11:51Like, when you see Tommy Lee from eight feet away, and you see the way he plays the drums and why he plays the drums that way, and the sort of joy he brings to that, and then you go back and go, oh, that's why when I heard Wild Side, like, it made me feel this, because now I see it right in front of me.
00:12:05As opposed to just having an intellectual outer experience, you actually get to witness that thing in its own way and how it fits in together with everybody's playing and Vince's voice and stuff.
00:12:14And so it's such a cool thing just from a fan perspective to understand why what a particular artist does is so brilliant in a way that you don't even understand just from listening.
00:12:22Wow. You played a song last night that I love from the new album, and we'd like to play it from the studio version, Run To Me. Tell us about that song.
00:12:29That's an interesting one. I don't know.
00:12:34It's catchy, first of all.
00:12:36Oh, yeah, catchy works.
00:12:37It's got a great vibe to it.
00:12:38Well, obviously, it's way more than that, but sometimes you start, as a fan, being attracted by some aspect of the song.
00:12:44Maybe it's the words, maybe it's the music.
00:12:46For me, in that particular song, when I first heard it, it was the music. It just kind of grabbed me.
00:12:50Yeah, that's a difficult one because, see, if the band was still together in the old version of it, it probably would have been a song more like a Tonight Tonight.
00:12:57But because we don't really have a band in the literal sense anymore, and then we're also looking at kind of a very electronic-y world, we thought, well, let's approach it.
00:13:06Can we meld the Tonight Tonight feeling with, let's call it a very modern, four-on-the-floor approach?
00:13:11Obviously, a lot of the new bands have just a doof, doof, doof, doof.
00:13:15And then, so we liked where that was going, and it kind of got to a point where we're like, this is pretty good, but it was really Tommy Lee who took it to this whole other level.
00:13:23It was Tommy who came up with all those kind of strange, you have to hear the song, obviously, but he played all these kind of interesting accents in between that only Tommy would have played.
00:13:30And it was really Tommy that kicked the whole song up this other level.
00:13:33You mentioned talking about the sound of the album in a quote which was about fan expectations.
00:13:39And you said, quote, you all keep calling for this album regarding whatever the next album might be, so here it is, but you don't really want it.
00:13:46You want Siamese Dream remixed or something.
00:13:49And that made me think from your perspective because a fan does want that sound of that band, whatever that band might be, and yet you as the artist and creator of those sounds have to fulfill yourself.
00:14:02So where do you fuse those two concepts?
00:14:05I don't.
00:14:06Honestly, I kind of gave up on it.
00:14:09Because in a weird way, and Siamese is an interesting album to sort of make that point, the album was made by a band that wanted to get to the top, and it did take us to the top.
00:14:19But that band never really existed, and it was sort of a studio construct between me, Butch, and Jimmy.
00:14:25Okay, so here we are 20-something years later, and that sound, that pumpkin sound, which has been oft imitated, and even people still want it from me, what people miss is that it was so much of its time.
00:14:39You can only have that moment one time.
00:14:42Even as a fan of Black Sabbath, I mean, when they put out 13, I liked it.
00:14:46I think Rick did a great job.
00:14:47I thought the song was really good.
00:14:48But I'm never going to get that feeling the first time I heard Sabbath, Bloody Sabbath.
00:14:52And so, bands are put in this horrible position where you kind of want to press the button, and you know that's what people want, but deep down you know it doesn't really work.
00:15:00But to rebuild something from the ground up, from scratch, that would match the same level of intensity and personal connection for you as the artist-songwriter, it's really, really difficult.
00:15:12So, you're almost bound to fail.
00:15:14Does it make sense?
00:15:15Yes, sure.
00:15:16Because there's no way that you can reach that same level of intensity, but at the same time, aping the old intensity is also going to fail.
00:15:23But fans are very connected to the idea of identity like, I call it, Die Hard 7.
00:15:28You know, you want to see them survive the plane crash one more time.
00:15:32I just don't think it has anything to do with the modern application of the way the music world is working.
00:15:37The bands who seem to work the best in that context are the bands that basically play one style of music, sort of, and they just do that thing over and over again, so the fans are very comfortable and it becomes Die Hard 7, Die Hard 8, Die Hard 9.
00:15:49But Pumpkins were never designed to be that.
00:15:51Interesting.
00:15:52I just call it transparently, like, okay, here is what you think you want, and it's really not what you want.
00:15:58And I know that, we know that, and it is what it is.
00:16:01Well, you have to be true to yourself.
00:16:03But to answer the question honestly, where we're true to ourselves is in the songwriting, is in the emotional spirit of the album.
00:16:10And Monuments is actually a much more complicated album than it seems, but you have to listen to it about ten times.
00:16:16But we also assume that people won't listen to it ten times, because it's a one-shot world.
00:16:20So we made an album that was actually cool and enjoyable first listen.
00:16:23It didn't press any buttons because people got the sound they were looking for.
00:16:27And only now that the album's been out for a while are fans coming at me going, wow, this is really a great record.
00:16:32I didn't think it was.
00:16:33I liked it.
00:16:34But now that I've heard it about 20 times, I'm like, oh my god, this is like this.
00:16:37And that was the only way we could do it.
00:16:40But we have to be honest with ourselves, or we end up kind of making a watered-down version of something.
00:16:46I think in the history of your success, like Melancholy and the Infinite Sadness, 1995 earned all these Grammy Awards.
00:16:53I think you won Best Hard Rock for Bullet With Butterfly Wings.
00:16:57And, you know, you mentioned a moment ago that this band started out seeking success at that moment.
00:17:02That's the highest award.
00:17:04You were nominated for several, but you won at least one.
00:17:07I was wondering what you felt, because you have a different take on the music industry and what success means, but you wanted success.
00:17:14I think the record did over 10 million copies.
00:17:16And then you get the success in the form of a Grammy.
00:17:19What did that mean to you?
00:17:21It was weird, because even that night, and I'm not complaining, but we had been nominated, I think, for seven Grammys that night.
00:17:29Right.
00:17:30And we lost and lost and lost.
00:17:32So by the time we won, we'd lost so much it was kind of like the consolation prize, even though it's not.
00:17:38But even after we won that, we were still up for Album of the Year.
00:17:43And so you're sitting there and, you know, we'd had a pretty good run there.
00:17:46We had a legit shot to win Album of the Year.
00:17:48And it was like, drumroll, Celine Dion.
00:17:52And she gets up there, and she goes, you know, I want to thank all the little people that worked on it.
00:17:58She didn't say that.
00:17:59I swear to God, she said little people.
00:18:00Oh my God.
00:18:01If she didn't say it in the broadcast, she said it in the earlier version of the show, which wasn't broadcast.
00:18:05But she referred to these people as the little people, and she brought up, I swear to God, the 12 producers that had worked on her album.
00:18:12And they all stood behind her, and she said, if it wasn't for you, I wouldn't be here.
00:18:16And we're sitting there laughing because it's like, we made this album with our blood, sweat, and tears, and she's pointing at the 12 people who made the album.
00:18:24And it's just, that's, you know, remember when, and I'm a Jethro Tull fan, but I mean, remember when it was all Metallica didn't win and Jethro Tull won for heavy metal album?
00:18:33It was like, we felt that same way.
00:18:35Like, are you kidding me?
00:18:36You know, we just scorched the earth with what is now one of the biggest selling albums of all time.
00:18:41And it was like Celine Dion for like, I don't know.
00:18:44It was just such a weird, you felt like, so for me, it was kind of a bitter, strange experience.
00:18:49And then, and then, and not to beat up on the Grammys, but like in Grammy world, when you're in that loop, you get nominated for stuff you don't deserve and you win for things you don't deserve.
00:18:59And we, as it happened with us too, like we would just get nominated.
00:19:03We'd be like, why are we nominated for this?
00:19:04It's not that good.
00:19:05And then when you fall out of it, you don't exist anymore.
00:19:07So I haven't heard from the Grammys since like 1998.
00:19:10I don't get invited.
00:19:11I don't get called.
00:19:13And the only time they've ever said anything is, can you come back and do something 20th anniversary of your winning?
00:19:19And it's like, ah, you know, forget that.
00:19:21Well, you know, but I'm saying it's like, that's that world.
00:19:23It's like, you're either in or out.
00:19:24And when you're out, you're dead.
00:19:25So my whole thing with the Grammys, I just shrug my shoulders, you know?
00:19:28There are a lot of markers for success.
00:19:30And I would claim the Grammys are cool and everything, but you guys were on the Simpsons.
00:19:35Yeah.
00:19:36You know, Homer Palooza.
00:19:37Did anyone see that?
00:19:38Wasn't that amazing?
00:19:39I mean, tell me what that was like.
00:19:42Um, you know, it's cool because you just go in and they give you your lines and you, you read them, you know, just by yourself.
00:19:50And, okay, you got this line like, hey, uh, hey, Homer.
00:19:53And they say, can you say a little more angry?
00:19:55Hey, Homer.
00:19:56And you just have you do it until they get what they're looking for and you just go to the next line.
00:19:59So you don't see the finished show and you don't read it in real time.
00:20:02So it's, you're just like kind of a piece of the bigger process.
00:20:05What'd you think of the finished show though?
00:20:07Oh, it was great.
00:20:08And, and, and not to brag, but it's the number one Simpsons episode of all time.
00:20:12Really?
00:20:13Yeah.
00:20:14Even after all this time?
00:20:15It is.
00:20:16It's the number one Simpsons episode of all time, Homer Palooza.
00:20:18So I suppose it has more to do with Sonic Youth and Peter Frampton.
00:20:22Uh, from Monuments, um, which was released in December of 2014.
00:20:27Last night you played a drum and Fife.
00:20:29It's such a beautiful song and you dedicated it to our, uh, service men and women, which I thought was cool.
00:20:34Have you played for a lot of, uh, service folks on this tour or in past years that, that have moved you?
00:20:40Um, yeah, I mean, there's so many people that served that you wouldn't know because they're back in civilian life.
00:20:45And so by kind of making a point of saying that and reaching out to vets groups, it's amazing that people, and, and, and surprisingly, a lot of women serve, uh, not always in the military part, but maybe the supplemental part.
00:20:58Like I've met a vet truck drivers and support systems stuff.
00:21:02It's like, and they were over there in the, in the madness, just like anybody else.
00:21:06So they're, you know, they go through the same issues with trauma and they saw things that they, you know, aren't easy to reconcile.
00:21:12So you forget about that part of it beyond just like it's called the soldier core of it all.
00:21:16So, and these are really big issues and I don't want to get into political stuff, but I'm, but I'm saying it's reaching out and, and, and, and meeting with people on a very personal level is really, really helpful.
00:21:27It makes me see America slightly differently than just like the typical liberal, like war is bad.
00:21:32And so soldiers are bad too, cause war is bad.
00:21:34I like, you know, like a lot of people think in their younger, younger years, when you start realizing that, um, the military is part of our community and, and such a part, so many people that serve a distinction go on to serve in our communities and are a big part of our communities.
00:21:48And you start realizing when you become a, in your part of your community, you know what I mean?
00:21:53You have a social responsibility that goes beyond your, your gig here.
00:21:55So do I, um, you start working in those worlds.
00:21:57You start realizing a lot of people that you deal with that are successful, have a military background.
00:22:01So it's not a really a political thing.
00:22:03It's me.
00:22:04It's more of a civic thing of like, how do we work together to make our country better?
00:22:07Would you do that song for us?
00:22:09Or do you want to say that?
00:22:10You want to say that?
00:22:11Yeah.
00:22:12Cause I'm old and I got up.
00:22:13Nope.
00:22:14That's cool.
00:22:15You talked about, um, doing, uh, gigs and helping other people.
00:22:20And I have a really strong memory of the tour you did after a door came out.
00:22:24I think it was 1998.
00:22:25You guys went on a 17 date, I think 15 city tour of North America.
00:22:29And what was so special about it and move me at the time still does.
00:22:32When I think of it now is the fact that 100% of the proceeds went to a charity in that town.
00:22:38I think here in Philly, it went to a struggling school in North Philadelphia, which is a tough neighborhood here.
00:22:43And, uh, I remember interviewing you at the time and I thought, this is amazing.
00:22:47Cause this band, you fronted everything.
00:22:49I mean, um, expenses, it's not cheap to go on tour, tour buses, crew, various other things,
00:22:55details that you can't even imagine.
00:22:56And so you guys went on tour, um, and paid for it yourself and raised almost $3 million.
00:23:03Is there a moment from that or a couple of moments that stand out, uh, where you got to
00:23:08see that money actually do some real good?
00:23:11Yeah.
00:23:12I mean, I still to this day meet people who were affected by that, um, that tour and the,
00:23:17and the monies that we raise and the, the sort of the charitable things that we did.
00:23:21And I've even met people who said that they were inspired by what we did to go on and have
00:23:25lives in charity, become public servants or, so the legacy of that tour, um, although very
00:23:32quiet, um, it continues.
00:23:34So, um, you know, what really struck me cause we were so you, we were on that crazy train
00:23:39of, you know, MTV today and, you know, cocaine tomorrow or whatever, you know what I mean?
00:23:44It was just, it was such a weird, blurry time and to kind of come off our high horse and
00:23:49meet people who are real heroes.
00:23:51I mean, real heroes in your community, this community, other communities, people were like,
00:23:56I'd meet like the lady who, um, her whole mission in life was to help teenage prostitutes.
00:24:04You know what I mean?
00:24:05I mean, not hardly an advocate group, you know, you know, we're the teenage prostitutes,
00:24:09you know what I mean?
00:24:10It's like literally dirty work, you know, kids that are addicted to heroin at 15 and
00:24:15they're turning tricks.
00:24:16And, and this woman had dedicated, you know, her whole life to trying to get them off drugs
00:24:21and off the streets.
00:24:22I mean, you meet somebody like that.
00:24:23It's like, whoa, my little weird complaint here seems pretty small.
00:24:27And we needed that kind of check at that time.
00:24:30It didn't, it didn't make us any better.
00:24:32It's just, we needed that check.
00:24:34Uh, is Matthew here?
00:24:35I don't know.
00:24:36Um, come around here, Matt.
00:24:37Uh, because, uh, uh, Matt Cord is one of our, uh, DJs and a great talent in his own
00:24:43right.
00:24:44And he also is the announcer for the Philadelphia 76ers.
00:24:47Oh, very good.
00:24:48And your love of sports, Billy, is, is legendary.
00:24:50Uh, I read and tell me if this is true that, uh, uh, you love baseball and you have, uh,
00:24:56an amount of baseball cards that exceeds 10,000.
00:24:59Was that true or, and is it still?
00:25:01Um, when I was, was really struggling before the band started, I actually sold my 10,000 baseball
00:25:06and baseball cards for a pittance.
00:25:08Wow.
00:25:09And I knew the guy was ripping me off and I was so hungry that I still went ahead and
00:25:12did it.
00:25:13And I think later on I went and re-bought everything back.
00:25:15Huh.
00:25:16So you still have a, you have a huge collection even now.
00:25:18Yeah.
00:25:19It's kind of in the attic, you know, it's one of those like, do I really need these baseball
00:25:23cards?
00:25:24But, um, yeah, I'm, um, you know, I've gotten to know the ownership of, uh, the Cubs a little
00:25:29bit and I like where the organization's going.
00:25:31It's obviously we're headed in the right direction to be, to have a winning organization year
00:25:35in and year out.
00:25:36I mean, this town's done pretty well with that.
00:25:38Um, certainly much better than Chicago.
00:25:40So.
00:25:41Well, they are always complaining though here, but I, I mean, I don't know.
00:25:44No, no.
00:25:45One thing you know about, uh, Philadelphia is they're going to tell you what they think.
00:25:48Yeah.
00:25:49Um, Matt is the announcer for the 76ers.
00:25:51Uh, he's a court announcer in addition to being our evening DJ and you met Billy when?
00:25:56I got to interview you and thanks for coming today.
00:25:59Um, I think it was 2000, uh, Makina machines of God and you were a tower records on South
00:26:05street in Philly.
00:26:06And I think the tour was resumed the pose.
00:26:09Yes.
00:26:10Yes.
00:26:11So there was three DJs and we all got 10 minutes.
00:26:14That was it.
00:26:15Again, the times.
00:26:17Yeah.
00:26:18And I, and I told you right off the bat that I worked for the Sixers and you're like, this
00:26:22guy has all the time he wants.
00:26:24Why did you trade Larry use?
00:26:26Why?
00:26:27Why?
00:26:28So right away I'm like, wow, this guy, you know, I didn't realize you were such a sports
00:26:30fan.
00:26:31So we got talking about, you know, athletes.
00:26:32And then you're like, I said, is there an autograph you'd love to get?
00:26:35And you're like, I would love a Dr.
00:26:37J autograph.
00:26:38So I got you the Dr.
00:26:39J autograph.
00:26:40You know, I got him.
00:26:41He signed them all Julius, the Dr.
00:26:43Irving.
00:26:44Thanks.
00:26:45You know, Billy.
00:26:46You're great.
00:26:47Number 32, number six.
00:26:48And I had it for like three years.
00:26:49Cause I never ran into you again.
00:26:50So a friend of mine, he sold it.
00:26:52No, no, a friend of mine came over to my house and he's looking at the ball.
00:26:56His name's Billy.
00:26:57And he, he's from Boston.
00:26:59So he's got like a Ted Williams signed bat.
00:27:01He's got like a, a Tom Brady Jersey, a Bobby or puck.
00:27:04And Dr.
00:27:05J went to UMass.
00:27:06So he's like, yeah, what are you going to do with that?
00:27:08I'm like, well, it's for Billy Corgan.
00:27:09You're never going to see him again with the Boston accent.
00:27:13He's Dickie Barrett's brother, Billy Barrett.
00:27:16So he's like, I'm like, you know what?
00:27:17Take it.
00:27:18So, um, I gave it to Billy Barrett, but I have this.
00:27:23Can you give me Larry Hughes?
00:27:26No, I was working with, uh, Daryl Dawkins on Saturday.
00:27:30Oh, wow.
00:27:31Chocolate thunder.
00:27:32Of course.
00:27:33And chocolate thunder.
00:27:34And by Stevie wonder.
00:27:35So I asked him if he could sign a ball for you.
00:27:37Oh, wow.
00:27:38Cool.
00:27:39Thank you, buddy.
00:27:40That is giving Billy the basketball sign by Daryl Dawkins.
00:27:43Chocolate thunder.
00:27:44Guy broke a million backboards in his day.
00:27:46He's still like a force.
00:27:47And, um, and we have, uh, our rookie this year is, uh, Jaleel Okafor, who's from Chicago.
00:27:52Yeah.
00:27:53I don't know.
00:27:54I'm, I'm for, I've kind of gave up on college sports.
00:27:56So I'm, I'm, I'm a little bit ignorant when it comes to where everybody's from.
00:28:00Cause I just hate the way they take advantage of the kids, the college system.
00:28:03So that's just my own.
00:28:04Do you still root for the bulls?
00:28:06Oh yeah.
00:28:07Oh yeah.
00:28:08Yeah.
00:28:09You surprised tip it though.
00:28:10Got fired.
00:28:11Not really.
00:28:12Yeah.
00:28:13I think it was a bit of the, I think it was a bit of the Pat Riley syndrome in that.
00:28:16I think he was just wearing the guys out.
00:28:18Yeah.
00:28:19And in the modern, I mean, you know, cause you're inside an organization, we hear things
00:28:23that only certain people here, if guys start to grind on the guys and they don't want
00:28:27to play for them, then that it doesn't matter what the goal is.
00:28:30My complaint with him is, um, he's one of the few coaches that doesn't sit in his chair
00:28:33the whole game.
00:28:34He just yells at the team.
00:28:35So he blocks me the entire game.
00:28:36So I'm like, Thibodeau, sit down.
00:28:38Yeah.
00:28:39Obviously a great coach.
00:28:40It's a great coach, but he certainly took the bullet for all the Derrick Rose injuries.
00:28:44And that's, I mean, how can you put that on him?
00:28:47And one more Chicago question.
00:28:48Are the Blackhawks a true dynasty?
00:28:50Yes.
00:28:53Jeff's a big hockey guy.
00:28:55I can tell you.
00:28:56That must've been fun.
00:28:57Totally legit.
00:28:58I would argue that winning the Stanley Cup is probably the hardest championship to win.
00:29:03Especially year after year in that short of time.
00:29:06With three cups now in like...
00:29:07Three and five?
00:29:08Yeah.
00:29:09Three and five.
00:29:10Especially when you see some of those like double overtime games and it's literally like
00:29:11a bad bounce.
00:29:12Yeah.
00:29:13You know, that's the difference between winning game five.
00:29:15You know, that kind of stuff.
00:29:16I think hockey's really tough to win.
00:29:18Yeah.
00:29:19So.
00:29:20And Cub.
00:29:21The World Series must be really hard since it's been 107 years for the Cubs.
00:29:26Have you sung take me out to the ball game at any of the Cubs games?
00:29:29I have.
00:29:30And I will tell you that I was at the Bartman game, the famous game.
00:29:35No way.
00:29:36And I was in the stands.
00:29:37They were five outs away from winning and yeah, from winning and going to the World Series.
00:29:42And so, the Cubs had called me that morning, the morning of the Bartman game and said,
00:29:51we don't think there's going to be a game seven, but if there is, will you sing the
00:29:55seventh inning stretch?
00:29:57So, and part of the cool thing they offer is you offer you a suite.
00:30:01So, I'm like, well, if there is a game seven, I could take all my friends and we'll see a
00:30:04game seven.
00:30:05That's incredible, right?
00:30:06So, when they lost the game, there I am.
00:30:09You know, Scottie Pippen from the Bulls was in my box and we were high five and Carrie
00:30:13Wood hits the home run.
00:30:14The Cubs are up.
00:30:15And then, they come and get me at the top of the seventh.
00:30:18Oh no.
00:30:19And I'm in there and I think Kyle Farnsworth was pitching and just, s*** the bed I think
00:30:24was the word we did.
00:30:26They gave up like five runs and so I'm standing and the inning went on for 30 minutes and I'm
00:30:31just watching everyone just disintegrate.
00:30:33And then it's like, and now to sing.
00:30:36It was like a funeral.
00:30:38Oh my God.
00:30:39It was so traumatic.
00:30:41Wow.
00:30:42That's a tough gig, man.
00:30:43Yeah, it was a tough gig.
00:30:44It ain't gonna get any worse than that.
00:30:45We have Billy Corgan and Jeff Schroeder of the Smashing Pumpkins.
00:30:48Could we trouble you to do another song for us?
00:30:50Sure.
00:30:51We'd like to do Dorian from the new album.
00:30:53I guess it's not that new, but.
00:30:55Dorian.
00:30:56Dorian.
00:30:57Dorian.
00:30:58Dorian.
00:30:59What have you done?
00:31:00Dorian.
00:31:01Dorian.
00:31:02Dorian.
00:31:03Dorian.
00:31:04Dorian.
00:31:05Dorian.
00:31:06Darion, Darion, what have you done?
00:31:22Darion, as you run by setting sun
00:31:27Darion, a fleeting dream that finds you
00:31:36Is it always as you want?
00:31:41Is it always as you thought?
00:31:46Darion, Darion, Dorion, Dorion, Dorion, Dorion, Dorion,
00:32:03Dorian
00:32:06Dorian
00:32:14What have you done?
00:32:23Oh my child
00:32:25When I know something done
00:32:30It's what they'd toss
00:32:33Dorian
00:32:37As you run
00:32:40A setting sun
00:32:42There's Dorian
00:32:45A fleeting dream
00:32:47That finds you
00:32:50Is it always as you love?
00:32:55Is it always as you want?
00:32:58Dorian
00:33:02Dorian
00:33:05Dorian
00:33:09Dorian
00:33:13Dorian
00:33:17Dorian
00:33:21Dorian
00:33:25Dorian
00:33:27Dorian
00:33:28Dorian
00:33:29Dorian
00:33:37Dorian
00:33:39Dorian
00:33:40What have you done?
00:33:46Dorian
00:33:51Dorian
00:33:52Dorian
00:33:53Dorian
00:33:54Dorian
00:33:55Dorian
00:33:56Dorian
00:33:57Dorian
00:33:58Dorian
00:33:59Dorian
00:34:00Dorian
00:34:01Dorian
00:34:02Dorian
00:34:03Dorian
00:34:04Dorian
00:34:05Dorian
00:34:06Whoever finds you
00:34:11Whoever finds you
00:34:31The incredibly talented music, not only is Billy here with us,
00:34:36but Jeff Schroeder.
00:34:37And Jeff, I need you to speak closer to the microphone,
00:34:40but I read that you're studying or finishing up your Ph.D.
00:34:43in comparative literature at UCLA.
00:34:46Is that true?
00:34:47Yes and no.
00:34:47No, I stopped.
00:34:48You've got to speak right into the microphone.
00:34:50No, I stopped because I've been in this band for eight years now,
00:34:53and they said if you don't come back, you never can't finish.
00:34:58So rock and roll is more fun than academia.
00:35:01Well, it became clear to me from what you were studying
00:35:04that you're not terribly intelligent.
00:35:06For example, you're specializing in Asian American literature,
00:35:09francophone literature, and classical theory.
00:35:12No, critical theory.
00:35:13Critical theory.
00:35:14Yeah, critical theory.
00:35:15I don't know what any of them are, quite frankly.
00:35:17But, I mean, obviously that's a, you know, I was kidding.
00:35:20You're obviously a very bright gentleman.
00:35:22Oh, thank you.
00:35:22Is it something you'd ever think of going back and finishing?
00:35:24You know, it's weird.
00:35:27It seems like now that I've lived a completely different life since then,
00:35:32so it would have to make sense for what I'd want to do.
00:35:36So I don't really think about returning any time now.
00:35:39I'm kind of, you know, we've worked really hard at maintaining this band,
00:35:43and I'm kind of living here right now.
00:35:46So that seems like a past life.
00:35:48Cool.
00:35:48You certainly play well.
00:35:50Oh, thank you.
00:35:50Billy, I want to ask you, we talked about you playing with Tony Iommi
00:35:54and, you know, getting to know your heroes.
00:35:56I believe it was 96 at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction ceremony.
00:36:00You got to induct and then later play with Pink Floyd.
00:36:03What was that like?
00:36:06Pretty surreal.
00:36:07I mean, we played Wish You Were Here, which is such a beautiful song.
00:36:14And, you know, I'm not sure how I was asked to induct Pink Floyd,
00:36:18but they basically said, say whatever you want.
00:36:22And so I thought, wow, you know, all the people that are going to be in the room,
00:36:27which, you know, was the old, still the old guard, the Mo Austins,
00:36:31and, you know, basically the men who had built the music business.
00:36:35Amit.
00:36:35Yeah, and I thought, you know, how ironic that probably the biggest selling
00:36:44or one of the biggest selling albums of all time, Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon,
00:36:48which I think was 1975, 76, somewhere around there,
00:36:51is close to the era of disco, you know, that that was more important
00:36:56and lasts in a way that disco didn't.
00:36:58And so I said in my speech, I said, you know, I want, and I did the setup,
00:37:02and I said Dark Side of the Moon, one of the greatest albums of all time,
00:37:05ba-ba-ba, I only had the one single on it, Money, ba-ba-ba,
00:37:07people are not interested.
00:37:08And I said, I want you all to know that you're all responsible for disco,
00:37:12and I know you're in this room, and I haven't forgotten.
00:37:15And this incredible, uncomfortable kind of went up.
00:37:22Oh, that's great.
00:37:23Because that sums it up, I mean, the truly great works of art in our business
00:37:27are the ones that really do sell, yet the business is really built for the opposite,
00:37:33which is so strange, and it's still that way.
00:37:36It's still that way.
00:37:38And I have conversations with all sorts of people, people in tech,
00:37:41people in the music business, and it's like, when you have, let's say,
00:37:43like a Jimi Hendrix, I mean, Jimi Hendrix is still making somebody some money,
00:37:46including, hopefully, the Hendrix family.
00:37:49Why, when you find the Jimi Hendrix's world,
00:37:51why you don't do everything to support them,
00:37:54but then you read about Jimi Hendrix, he got ripped off,
00:37:57he got, you know, the people stealing the rights from the family,
00:38:00and, you know, just, that's the,
00:38:02why is the music business the complete opposite of every other business?
00:38:04I don't get it.
00:38:05Because at this point, in 2015, it's a business.
00:38:07I mean, it's not smoke and mirrors anymore.
00:38:09You've got to try to get songs on the radio,
00:38:10you've got to try to get fans to come and put their butts in the seats.
00:38:13So when you have a Kurt Cobain, or you have a Jimi Hendrix,
00:38:17or you have a Bob Marley,
00:38:18I don't understand why the music business doesn't rally around those people.
00:38:21Because not only do they profit everyone involved with them,
00:38:24but then there's everything that echoes out.
00:38:27I mean, they create new paths, they create new models,
00:38:29they create new ideas.
00:38:31And it's amazing to me in 2015 that the music business is still half-assed backwards
00:38:34for stuff that really everyone knows is not going to last,
00:38:39when it's to everybody's benefit that we find these great talents.
00:38:42You know, that makes me think of an album you participated in,
00:38:45and a gentleman who I think,
00:38:47and his band that never got the credit nor the acknowledgement,
00:38:51and the finances, quite frankly,
00:38:53the financial support that they so rightly deserve.
00:38:55Now, I speak of the Kinks and Ray Davies.
00:38:58And a couple of years ago, he put out an album called See My Friends,
00:39:01and all kinds of people,
00:39:02from Jackson Brown to Mumford & Sons to Bon Jovi to,
00:39:07certainly you, participated in this,
00:39:09and Bruce Springsteen's on it.
00:39:11And it's so cool,
00:39:13because he went in and redid some of the great Kinks songs.
00:39:16And in your particular case,
00:39:17fans of the Kinks know that Destroyer,
00:39:20which came out early 80s,
00:39:21had a riff in it that borrowed quite heavily
00:39:24from All Day and All the Night.
00:39:25So, I guess it was Ray's thinking,
00:39:28let's combine the two songs into one song,
00:39:31and you sing it with them.
00:39:33What was that like?
00:39:35It's kind of a funny story,
00:39:36because we share the same book agent.
00:39:40So, my book agent said,
00:39:42are you a Kinks fan?
00:39:44And I said, oh yeah,
00:39:45I just bought this really rare Kinks 45 the other day,
00:39:49like a 66 Pi release or something.
00:39:52And he said, well,
00:39:52I'll send you Ray's email and write them.
00:39:55So, I sent Ray this picture of this 45 that I just bought,
00:40:00thinking he'd be like, oh, that's cool.
00:40:02Didn't say anything about that.
00:40:03He wrote back and said,
00:40:04would you be interested in being involved in this album?
00:40:08And I wrote back, sure.
00:40:11Never heard from Ray again.
00:40:13Heard from his guy.
00:40:15They basically said, do whatever you want.
00:40:17Do your own version of the song.
00:40:18I did my own version of the song.
00:40:20I sang it.
00:40:21Never heard from Ray again, and it came out.
00:40:24Wow.
00:40:24So, you didn't sing it with him together.
00:40:26No, and it's like when Sinatra did the duets.
00:40:29I mean, people, that's, I mean, it's the modern world.
00:40:31That's okay.
00:40:31But never heard from Ray again.
00:40:33Never heard if he liked it.
00:40:35So, to this day, I still have never met Ray Davies,
00:40:38other than the one email.
00:40:39Did you have a good night last night?
00:40:41Was it fun for you?
00:40:41Yeah, I mean, the great thing about this area is the fans really are music fans.
00:40:47And I can't say that about a lot of parts of the country.
00:40:50I mean, maybe they're fans of other types of music, but I mean, you come here, people want rock.
00:40:54And that's good.
00:40:55It's still a rock town.
00:40:57Is that true?
00:40:58Yeah.
00:40:58And they know what, like, rock really is.
00:41:02You know what I mean?
00:41:02Like, not the fake version.
00:41:03Not the jump around, we're having a great time fake version.
00:41:06Like, if you bring a great show, a great passionate show with real power, the fans here will back you up.
00:41:11Well, it's interesting, because encores are a fascinating thing.
00:41:14And some of your set lists, I've noticed you've done them, and some you haven't.
00:41:17And that seems to be creeping in a little bit from the Foo Fighters, who now don't do an encore.
00:41:22And Dave Grohl addresses it.
00:41:24He goes, you know, we're just going to come back.
00:41:26So, I'm going to tell you, this is going to be the last song.
00:41:29And The Who didn't do an encore and is not doing them on this 50th anniversary tour.
00:41:34And in the old days, when you'd go to see a band, it wasn't a guarantee that you would get an encore.
00:41:39What's your take on that?
00:41:41Um, honestly, I think it's kind of a waste of time.
00:41:47You're honestly better just playing the songs that you would play in the encore and the set.
00:41:51Right.
00:41:52You're competing against the phone.
00:41:54You're competing against the clock.
00:41:55You're competing against the babysitter.
00:41:57And we laugh, because every night we play 1979, we decide to play 1979 in the set as opposed to an encore.
00:42:03Obviously, one of the biggest songs we ever had.
00:42:05And we played about an hour in, and every night we play the song, hundreds of people leave.
00:42:09Wow.
00:42:10We still have another 20 minutes to play.
00:42:12Are you kidding?
00:42:12That's the See You Later song.
00:42:15Once it's done, you mean?
00:42:16As soon as we finish the song, they go, out they go.
00:42:19Wow.
00:42:19Like, streaming.
00:42:21Like, I don't, and we still haven't, at that point, we still haven't played today.
00:42:26We haven't played a ton of other singles.
00:42:29And obviously, you know, you tend to plan the end of the show to be exciting.
00:42:32So they're basically saying, well, I don't care what you're going to do at the end.
00:42:34And I don't understand why somebody goes to a Broadway play and doesn't say until the end.
00:42:38Right.
00:42:38I've never understood people who leave the con.
00:42:40I've got to beat the traffic.
00:42:41But this is the band you came to see.
00:42:43Not really.
00:42:44I think they come to see certain songs.
00:42:46So the point being is, if it's an audience that's there to see songs, then why bother with the encore?
00:42:51Because they're not going to stick around.
00:42:52You might as well just play those songs in the show.
00:42:55Because at the end, well, God bless, but I'm saying at the end of the day, you know, social media dominates a lot of the way people think.
00:43:02And if you play in Cleveland today, the people in Cincinnati are already reading what you're going to do and not do and who's mad about what.
00:43:09So there's not much you can really do.
00:43:11The artist is, and I've said too much about this, but when the artist doesn't dominate the conversation at a concert, in essence, the world I grew up in and I think the world you grew up in is the artist is telling me something and I'm either going to receive it or not.
00:43:26And my part of the conversation is, this is awesome or boo or leave.
00:43:31Now the conversation is dominated by the audience.
00:43:34The audience is determining the set list.
00:43:36The audience is determining the length of the show.
00:43:38The audience is determining whether or not what you say in between a song is welcome, politically correct.
00:43:44I've been doing this new joke live where I literally just say between every song, all right.
00:43:47Because that's the only thing I can say that won't offend somebody.
00:43:50And I'm sure somebody will have a problem with that too.
00:43:52You've touched on areas of it in terms of members.
00:43:56But when you hear the word band, what that means to you?
00:43:59Because, you know, there's been so many members of the Smashing Pumpkins that have come and gone.
00:44:06And I think fans tend to think of band as the entire group.
00:44:10And yet that can be interpreted differently.
00:44:13You've used, I think, what you call the Spider-Man analogy before regarding band and band cohesion.
00:44:20But what is your take on that word band and what it means to you and this particular group?
00:44:25There really isn't a band anymore.
00:44:27I mean, if there is a band, it's Jeff and I.
00:44:30Which is kind of weird to say because Jimmy's playing with us right now.
00:44:33And obviously he's an original member of the band.
00:44:35But he's not involved in the day-to-day grind that we're in, which is dealing with the business BS and trying to strategize a year, year and a half down the road.
00:44:44So he's a happy camper because he doesn't have to deal with all the internal politics stuff.
00:44:48Not with me, just the music business stuff.
00:44:49But I don't know.
00:44:53I just think that, here's what I say, and I'm being overly simplistic.
00:44:57That version of the band, the ice cream truck version of the band, that band died in 1996.
00:45:04That band went away.
00:45:07And whatever happened afterwards was various versions of that idea, but it wasn't the same.
00:45:13But you said at one point, I want my band back in the hiatus.
00:45:17And so that would indicate a return to some form of that entity.
00:45:23It was very honestly naive of me to think that, like one of those bad spiritual books, like you can't go home again.
00:45:30Or that home was always with me.
00:45:34The common thing is like, well, James and I started the band, which is true.
00:45:39I mean, that was sort of the official beginning because having somebody else was like, okay, now we're a band.
00:45:44But the reality was, I have a cassette tape from the year before I met James, and it says on the spine, the Spashing Pumpkins.
00:45:50So it started with me, the idea, the song.
00:45:54And so when you go through all these iterations and you deal with the public crap of like, well, I'm not going to see you because they're not in the band and all that stuff.
00:46:00At the end of the day, the only thing I know is that idea and my songs.
00:46:04That's the one constant.
00:46:06And I don't, I'm not selling it as a rationalization.
00:46:09It is what it is.
00:46:11You know, like a lot of people grew up in broken homes.
00:46:13I grew up in a broken home.
00:46:15Was my stepmother not my mother?
00:46:17Well, she was my mother.
00:46:18You can call her my stepmother, but she was my mother.
00:46:21My mother, who I didn't grow up with, was not my, was not not my mother.
00:46:25You know what I mean?
00:46:25But she wasn't my mother in a day.
00:46:26I'm saying we all grew up in situations where it's about adaptability and none of us, and I'm not saying this for pity, none of us could have expected in the 90s that the bottom was going to fall out of the music business and plenty of great artists were going to be forced to do a lot of dumb shit to survive and continue in a business that doesn't really care about us and cares more about selling cell phones.
00:46:46So having to figure out how to adapt to that business and move forward and always go back again and again and again to the song.
00:46:52And I will say, in deference to my partner here, he's got a better vision of the band's integrity and what the band's worth than I do.
00:47:00He's the person behind the scenes who's like, we got to do it like this or forget it.
00:47:05And he's made that commitment, so I'm very proud of him because even though he's not an original member of the band, he took that on.
00:47:11And he took it on personally and publicly.
00:47:13So even when he's talking about his academic career, he walked away from something very solid to roll the dice with me on this thing.
00:47:20So when we get shit about, you didn't do this and you should have done that, they don't understand what it's like to live in this insanity every day.
00:47:27And again, not for pity.
00:47:28That's just something we decided to do.
00:47:30So whether it's maintaining the legacy or I feel like I'm the ghost maintaining the museum, it doesn't matter.
00:47:36We're still here.
00:47:38And that's what was so disappointing when you're playing a show and you play 1979 and there they go.
00:47:44It's like they've given up on the Gen X dream.
00:47:46They don't even want to see the encore.
00:47:48They're not there for that.
00:47:49They're not there for the rock moment.
00:47:51They're there literally to relive an emotional moment and the minute they get it, you don't exist.
00:47:56You're like a, you are a ghost.
00:47:58So when I see that and I'm expected to somehow be cool with that, that goes against everything I started the band for, which was F you.
00:48:07You know what I mean?
00:48:08You know, F your idiot world, you know.
00:48:10And it's just because we're facing the idiot world doesn't mean I have to like it, you know.
00:48:14But you've also said kind of on a more positive note.
00:48:17And one quote I read.
00:48:18Positive?
00:48:18When was that?
00:48:202004?
00:48:21Well.
00:48:21Before the dream?
00:48:22A recent quote I read said, there's nothing to fight anymore because it's time to celebrate the legacy, the camaraderie, the journey, the kinship, and the band's unique relationship to fans.
00:48:32To me, that sounds pretty positive.
00:48:34And that was fairly recent, in one interview at least.
00:48:36No, we believe that.
00:48:37I mean, we wouldn't be playing the set.
00:48:39Like, for people that did see the whole show last night, we played 13 singles.
00:48:44And anybody who saw the band back in the day, when 1979 was a hit single, we didn't play the song a lot of nights.
00:48:49It was huge on MTV we wouldn't play it because we just didn't feel like it.
00:48:52We weren't that band.
00:48:53We weren't trying to be that band.
00:48:55So for us to kind of back up and say, look, we just want everyone to have a good time.
00:48:59You know, we've been in a lot of interesting wars over the years with fans, media.
00:49:02And now is just the time.
00:49:04If it's the beginning or the end, it doesn't matter.
00:49:05We're just here to play.
00:49:06And when you can go back to that inside yourselves and just be like, I just want to play.
00:49:10Like, Jeff, you know, I do the VIP stuff before.
00:49:13A lot of times Jeff just comes and joins me because he just wants to play.
00:49:16You know what I mean?
00:49:17It's not even a commitment, like, you've got to do this.
00:49:19He just wants to come play.
00:49:21That's the attitude that we have internally.
00:49:22Let's just play.
00:49:23Like, that solves everything.
00:49:25Well, in a recent tweet, you said, this band, strange as it may be, was built to last,
00:49:29and we have a lot of chips we've never played.
00:49:32That was the other day.
00:49:35But, I mean, that is also a more hopeful statement to me about the future of where you're going,
00:49:42because even given some of those changing things in the music industry and even in the fan base,
00:49:47that states a really positive intention that you wish to carry on and keep this music alive,
00:49:52whichever direction it should grow in.
00:49:54As long as it's balanced with new music, you know what I mean?
00:49:58As long as it centers on you're a musician and you're a songwriter and he's a musician and our job is to keep moving forward.
00:50:04As long as it balances out in there.
00:50:06Like, I'm a big fan of Rush, you know, well-known.
00:50:09I mean, I went to see Rush play, and some people say it's the last two or who knows,
00:50:14but they played a lot of new music, and the fans were very supportive and respectful of their new music.
00:50:19I mean, yeah, when they play Cygnus, the little kid in me is like, oh my god, they're playing Cygnus.
00:50:23But I'm still very respectful of their journey because they've maintained a high musical integrity.
00:50:28And as long as you have that balance, I think all you want is that opportunity.
00:50:31You don't expect people to like something they don't like.
00:50:33You just want that opportunity.
00:50:35And so much of our culture says, you know what, really not interested.
00:50:37Can you just go back being Siamese dream guy?
00:50:39And then they're mad that I'm not the Siamese dream guy.
00:50:42Like, even when I play Siamese dream songs, they're mad that I'm not the Siamese dream guy.
00:50:46Like, as if that guy ever existed.
00:50:48It's sort of strange, you know, I mean, it's like a hall of mirrors.
00:50:51And with social media, and you can go on and watch, you know, a bunch of YouTube clips,
00:50:55people form their own idea of who you were, and if you try to tell them that's actually not who you were,
00:51:00they don't want to hear it because you're ruining their Christmas, you know?
00:51:02So, you live in these kind of weird rooms with mirrors, and people have all these ideas,
00:51:07and the only thing you can do is play good.
00:51:10That's the one thing that seems to kind of make it all kind of balance.
00:51:14So, I think as long as we can make new music, and we can cut new ground,
00:51:18and hopefully the world that's mad at me for something I did or said in the last 20 years
00:51:23comes around and realizes that my musical legacy far outpaces my personal legacy,
00:51:28then everything should be fine, you know?
00:51:30Well, speaking of new music, the song Drum and Fife...
00:51:33I don't want to play it. I'm going to just play something old.
00:51:36You are?
00:51:36That was a joke.
00:51:38I'm trying to set this up.
00:51:41Exactly.
00:51:45So, in terms of Drums and Fife, that song, the moment I heard it, took me away.
00:51:50It's so beautiful, and you dedicated it to the troops last night,
00:51:55which I thought was particularly cool, and you guys are going to do it now for us, right?
00:51:59Yes, sir.
00:51:59Anything you'd say about it?
00:52:02He's inspired by a friend who'd been through, had done a couple tours in Iraq,
00:52:08and just seeing what he was going through, and I don't know.
00:52:11And it reminded me, because I have two grandfathers that were military,
00:52:17and like a lot of families, they never talked about their experiences.
00:52:20So, seeing them at the table, and that brooding kind of quality,
00:52:24and then seeing what a lot of people are going through still, it's just like, wow, I don't...
00:52:29And the crazy thing is, it's like, and I'll be... I wouldn't have the courage to do that.
00:52:34I wouldn't have the courage to go there.
00:52:35I found that when my mother died, years later, I found something that was in my mother's possessions,
00:52:40and it was a clipping from a newspaper.
00:52:45My grandfather was decorated for saving a bunch of guys' lives for like shooting planes out of the sky.
00:52:50It was just a little clip, and him, you know, with his hat cocked back, like the Corgan pose.
00:52:54And, you know, and then I didn't know that guy.
00:53:02You know, I didn't know the hero that saved other people's lives.
00:53:05I knew the guy who was unhappy, you know?
00:53:08So, when you put those pieces together, it's like, and you know you don't have...
00:53:12I don't have that kind of courage.
00:53:13I could stand on a stage, but I could never go to war.
00:53:16I just don't have that courage, nor would I want to.
00:53:21It just brought out something that somebody seemed to come through the song.
00:53:25Like, I guess, honoring what real courage looks like.
00:53:27When we were talking about charity, like honoring what real courage looks like.
00:53:30Like, okay, we play dress up, and I could be a hero to the kid in their basement, you know what I mean?
00:53:35Just like people were heroes to me in the basement.
00:53:37But I don't think Geddy Lee thinks of himself as a bigger hero than somebody who served with honor.
00:53:43And I'm the same way.
00:53:44I think deep down we know we get to play cool in that world, but in the bigger world, it's much more serious stuff.
00:53:50So, I'm pontificating.
00:53:52Better to play.
00:53:53Let's hear the song.
00:53:54It's cool.
00:53:54Away, away, foul dream.
00:54:09You're gonna listen now to me.
00:54:13No rules or in-between.
00:54:17You're gonna listen now to me.
00:54:20Waste all your time.
00:54:22Find another kind of thing.
00:54:25Oh, a phantom on the line.
00:54:29A phantom I don't care to own.
00:54:32Come on along on an eastern shore.
00:54:36Come on along, yeah, I'm right.
00:54:39Come on along on a winter's morn.
00:54:44Come on along, yeah, I'm right.
00:54:47You're mine.
00:54:47You're mine.
00:54:48You're mine.
00:54:49You're mine.
00:54:52Inside.
00:54:53I'm the drama I've ever seen.
00:54:58Race insane to say it.
00:55:03To break this beast with name.
00:55:05Cause I will bang this drum till my dying day
00:55:13In my fashion tune
00:55:26You're gonna listen now to me
00:55:29What's done, what's left as room
00:55:34You're gonna listen now to me
00:55:37Come on along on the winter's moon
00:55:42Come on along, you're mine
00:55:45Come on along on the eastern shore
00:55:50Come on along, you're mine
00:55:53You're mine
00:56:04It's time, the drum and I will save
00:56:10Race insane to save
00:56:14To break this beast with an end
00:56:19To ram all day what's been blamed
00:56:23Cause I will bang this drum till my dying
00:56:30I will bang this drum till my dying
00:56:34I will bang this drum till my dying day
00:56:40Cause I will bang this drum till my dying
00:56:45Don't you ever be afraid
00:56:48Don't you ever be afraid
00:56:53Don't you ever be afraid
00:56:57No more, no more, no more
00:57:00Cause I will bang this drum till my dying
00:57:06Don't you ever be afraid
00:57:10Cause I will bang this drum till my dying
00:57:15I will bang this drum till my dying
00:57:18I will bang this drum till my dying day
00:57:24Cause I will bang this drum
00:57:28Billy Corgan, Jeff Schroeder on MMR
00:57:38One last thing before we let you go
00:57:40Do you have the name?
00:57:42We have, of the five people who won with a guest
00:57:45Passes to come sit in our little studio audience here
00:57:49For this MMR Archive session
00:57:50One person gets drawn and wins the guitar
00:57:54That you signed earlier
00:57:55The Way Cool Smashing Pumpkins guitar
00:57:57And we have pulled out of the hat
00:57:59A lady named Elizabeth Strange
00:58:02Are you here, Elizabeth?
00:58:04Come on up here
00:58:05Come on up here
00:58:06Come on up
00:58:07Come on up
00:58:09Come on
00:58:10How are you?
00:58:14I'm okay, thank you
00:58:15Congratulations
00:58:17Thank you
00:58:18Oh, I remember you
00:58:20Tell us
00:58:23My son, Michael Strange
00:58:25Turned me on
00:58:26And it was MMR Archive
00:58:26And that Thursday
00:58:29It'll be four years
00:58:29He was killed
00:58:30In Afghanistan
00:58:31Oh my god
00:58:32Yeah
00:58:33And
00:58:34When you had the contest
00:58:36I was like on the phone
00:58:38And it was ringing and ringing forever
00:58:39And I said
00:58:40Michael
00:58:40Do you think I could get some
00:58:41Divine Intervention here
00:58:43And he
00:58:44Somebody picked up
00:58:45And then they
00:58:47Played with me a little bit
00:58:48Before they told me
00:58:49I was the one
00:58:50We were going for a high number
00:58:53We wanted
00:58:53No, no, it's okay
00:58:54We won
00:58:55I tried to make it as fair as possible
00:58:56So I went for caller 59
00:58:57Each day to give it away
00:58:59And
00:59:00Oh god, it's so cool that you won
00:59:03Oh god, thank you
00:59:04What did you tell me
00:59:05You said
00:59:06If you won, you would
00:59:08I'm going to Arlington Cemetery
00:59:10On Thursday
00:59:11To visit my son's stone
00:59:14And I'm taking that with me
00:59:16You are?
00:59:17Yes
00:59:18Oh yeah
00:59:19Alright, well you have to
00:59:20And then I'll put it under glass
00:59:21Can you
00:59:22If you can tweet it
00:59:23You know what I mean
00:59:24And we can retweet it
00:59:25And let everyone see
00:59:26That would be awesome
00:59:26Oh that's so cool
00:59:28Congratulations
00:59:28Thank you so much
00:59:30Thank you
00:59:30Oh my god
00:59:30That's great
00:59:31I love that
00:59:34Wow
00:59:35It doesn't get much better
00:59:36Thank you
00:59:37Doesn't get much better
00:59:38Our great thanks
00:59:39To Jeff Schroeder
00:59:40Who plays incredible guitar
00:59:41And to Billy Corgan
00:59:43The Smashing Pumpkins
00:59:44Are alive and well
00:59:45We wait for the new record
00:59:46I understand it's already
00:59:47Almost done
00:59:48Sort of, kind of
00:59:50Okay
00:59:50Never mind
00:59:52It'll be out
00:59:53Whenever it's out
00:59:54Our great thanks to you
00:59:55For taking the time
00:59:56To spend with us here
00:59:57At MMR
00:59:57And for playing live
00:59:58All the best
01:00:00In the days ahead
01:00:01Awesome
01:00:01Thank you
01:00:0293.3 WMMR
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01:00:07Oh my god
01:00:10That was awesome
01:00:12Oh my god
01:00:13MMR's Dream Stream Concert Series
01:00:1793.3 WMMR
01:00:19Everything That Rocks