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Track X Track with Meltdown, Episode 2: “Jackyl” with Jackyl's Jesse James Dupree
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00:00Hey guys, it's Meltdown and welcome to episode 2 of Track by Track. This time around, it's Jesse
00:05James Dupree talking about Jackal's debut record, Jackal. This thing turned 30 back in 2022. It was
00:12released on August 11, 1992. I mean, I Stand Alone, Down on Me, When Will It Rain, Dirty Little Mine,
00:20The Lumberjack, and a ton more. We're talking about Jackal's debut record today with frontman,
00:25guitar player, businessman, and all-around good guy, Jesse James Dupree today on Track by Track.
00:33This is Track by Track, a deeper look at some of rock's biggest albums from the artists who wrote
00:39them, Track by Track. And now, with today's album, here's your host, Meltdown. And there he is,
00:46Jesse James Dupree. How you doing, Jess? What's up, my brother? I'm doing all right,
00:51just hanging out here in Detroit City. I brought in all my Jackal memorabilia for the big show today,
00:57of course. We're going to talk about the debut record. I even brought some booze that I didn't
01:02drink yet, so. Well, that's a rarity right there, a bottle that's not empty. That's right,
01:08that hasn't been cracked open. That's actually from my neighbor's house. It was a Christmas present.
01:13I'm like, hey, I need that bottle real fast for some stuff. He thought that we drank it,
01:16I'm going to have to put some iced tea in it or something. But anyways, we're going to go back
01:20to the summer of 1995 for you here on Track by Track. And of course, it was August 11th. I'm
01:25sorry, 1992. This is from 1995. This broken barstool here is from 1995. But August of 1992,
01:33and that's when the debut record came out. Tell me about that whole experience of dropping a record
01:38at that time. Well, I mean, you know, we came out right in the middle of, you know, the whole Seattle
01:45thing. I mean, you know, it was Stone Temple and Pearl Jam and Nirvana. We were label mates for Nirvana
01:52on Geth and Records. And, you know, you can look back now, hindsight being 2020, but, you know, we
02:00really, at that time, we didn't really think about it. It was the big Seattle movement. I mean, it was
02:06just, it was just starting to happen. But, but it was going on. And really quickly, you know, we found
02:13ourselves the odd man out, because we were not from Seattle. We were from the far other end of the
02:17spectrum, you know, some Southern boys from Atlanta, Georgia, and just went in and recorded a down, down
02:23and dirty, greasy ass rock and roll record. And, and we were ready to share it with the world. And so we,
02:30I mean, we went out and just hit the road. I mean, we were, we were very fortunate to be signed to
02:34Yefton Records, because they, you know, they still, you know, between Aerosmith and Whitesnake
02:40and Guns N' Roses and, and Tesla. And I mean, they had, they had built that label on so many great
02:46rock bands. So we were, we were at home, you know, even though they had Nirvana, and they had
02:50Counting Crows, and they had, you know, various other, you know, Courtney Loves band and stuff like
02:56that. We were still very much in favor at the label. And they, they embraced us. And, you know,
03:03the, I mean, the record came out, and we never looked back. I mean, we, I think we released
03:07over half of those songs on the album were all released as singles, and they all charted up inside
03:12the top 10, you know, on the rock charts. You know, as a matter of fact, Down On Me, The Lumberjack,
03:18When It Rain, those were all top five rock tracks. And so in the middle of that craze that was going on
03:24with the grunge scene, you know, it was pretty, pretty amazing that we were able to literally
03:29cut through. And, and we did just that. Yeah, you said it, though, you pegged it. It's a down and
03:36dirty, greasy rock record that came out in 1992. And talk about working with Brendan O'Brien.
03:43Well, I'll talk about working with Brendan, but you know, I got to tell you, I mean, greasy rock and
03:47roll, down and dirty, greasy rock and roll, it never goes out of style. I mean, you can have all the,
03:52all the fads and trends and, you know, the phenomenons of the day and all that stuff.
03:58And they're all great and they're to be reckoned with and respected accordingly. But, but the one
04:04thing that never goes out of fashion is just some damn straight up celebrating the fundamentals of
04:09rock and roll, to guitar, bass and drums, chainsaw, if you will, you know, whatever it takes to get the
04:14job done. And generally find that, you know, that people that, that, that connect with the same
04:20philosophy that we have as far as celebrate the fundamentals of rock and roll, they get out,
04:25they come and see a rock and roll jackal show and, and they get so tore up. They don't even make it
04:29home before they hop in the backseat and knock out the old dirty, dirty. And I think that's where,
04:33I think that's where your kids were conceived, right? Right after a jackal show. But, um, you know,
04:38I also find that generally that people that, that don't connect with celebrate the fundamentals of
04:43rock and roll, those are the same people that generally have a hard time admitting that they
04:46masturbate. So we, uh, you know, we, we, we do celebrate those fundamentals of rock and roll.
04:52And we did work with Brendan O'Brien. I, I grew up going to see Brendan playing a band called pranks.
04:58He was in a band called pranks that were just great. They were in Atlanta. And I used to sneak
05:02into bars when I was under age and, uh, he, he's only about two years older than me. So he was,
05:07he was 18 and a bad-ass and I was 16 sneaking into the bars because the drinking age was 18 back then.
05:13And, um, but I used to go see Brendan and I was just a huge fan of, he was just a Joe Perry cool
05:18kind of a guy, just a great player. And he can play anything. I mean, play, you know,
05:23guitar, piano, he's just super multi-talented. And, um, so, um, you know, when we got ready to
05:30record our first album and the record label wanted to find the next big producer, you know,
05:36they were looking for the next Mutt Lang or the next Jack Douglas or somebody that was going to be
05:40the next legendary guy. And I spoke, I said, there's a guy named Brendan O'Brien. And they
05:45kind of laughed. They said, we want somebody that's going to be the next big thing, but not
05:48somebody we've never heard of before. And, uh, but they had a meeting with him and, uh, next thing
05:54you know, he was producing our album and Jackal actually gave him his first gold album, uh, for
06:01producing. I mean, obviously the records went on to be platinum and stuff, but we gave him his first
06:04award album, uh, uh, Stone Temple was the second, but then he went on to do everybody from, you know,
06:11uh, Soundgarden to, uh, Stone Temple stuff, more Stone Temple stuff, uh, Bruce Springsteen, uh,
06:17ACDC. I mean, you know, he's recorded, you know, so many people, you know, he's, he's really a talented
06:22guy. Well, I didn't realize that you guys pretty much gave him a start. I never heard that story
06:26before. That's interesting. I wouldn't say we gave him a start. I mean, he was, Brendan was going to be
06:30a badass and big time regardless, because he just, you want, there was no way you were going to hold
06:34him back. But, uh, but I am proud to say we were one of the first, if not the first to recognize
06:40his talents in the manner that we could get him his first gold record as a producer. Yeah.
06:43Yeah. That's great. So the record starts out with, I mean, one of just, just a great guitar riff
06:49and, uh, I stand alone. This was obviously the first single that you guys released and, uh, talk
06:53about that song and talk about the video. Well, I stand alone was written, uh, about two years prior
07:01to that or so, maybe even three years prior to that. Uh, yeah, it was 80, 1988 or 89. That song
07:09was written. Uh, my, I came off the road cause I found out I was going to be a father and I didn't
07:13know if I was going to be able to get back on the road again, playing because I had responsibilities
07:16that I had not had before. And, um, and I picked the guitar up and, uh, I wrote, I stand alone.
07:23And if you listen to the words, you know, you can tell, you know, I was, I was feeling it at that
07:27point because I didn't know if I'd ever be able to be even up on stage again, just with,
07:31you know, the, it's overwhelming as a young mid twenties guy having kids, you know how that
07:38is. And, uh, you got, you grow up real damn fast. Um, luckily I didn't grow up enough that
07:44I was able to still jump back up on the stage and make things happen. But thank God for my
07:49parents who were able to afford me, uh, you know, helping to, helping to provide a place
07:55for us to live while I was out on the road, living on $5 a day.
08:00Yeah. Now that song came out just, uh, prior to the release of the album. I can remember
08:03playing it on the radio, such a great rock and roll song. Like I said, with the, uh, with
08:08the great, um, uh, uh, guitar riff and everything. And then you got the backwards talking in there.
08:13You told me about that last time I saw, you said, you got to play that backwards to figure
08:16out what I'm saying.
08:17Yeah. So you go do that. You go do that and tell me what it says.
08:21Yeah. So, so that song comes out and of course, just pretty much jumpstarts. Now, uh, tell
08:27everybody there was that, um, there was that, uh, that lunch, that lunch that you had, right.
08:32Uh, when the record came out where you jumped up on table at the chainsaw, you said it was
08:35the most, most expensive dinner you, you, you never got to eat.
08:38Yeah. Uh, there was a bunch of, uh, program directors from radio stations all over the country
08:43that were in Atlanta for a convention and they were all eating at a big longhorn steakhouse.
08:48There's probably a dozen of them are so sitting at this big table and we got wind of it and
08:53we were shooting the, I stand alone video. So we, we barged into the longhorn steakhouse
08:58with the chainsaw and we cleared all their food into the floor and I carved Jackal into
09:03the top of the table. And, uh, the other 200 people in the restaurant didn't think it was
09:09too amusing. And, uh, and we ended up, uh, having a little bit of a rigor more that day.
09:16And we, we kind of bolted out of there, but they followed a class. I went to jail. They,
09:20they, they arrested me, uh, two days later, they came and got me, uh, they rate the night
09:25after they rated my mom's house. Cause that was the last address they had had me listed
09:29as they rated my mom's house and looking in all the closets trying to find me. And, uh,
09:34but I turned myself in on the third day and, and, um, and they, uh, booked me with reckless
09:41endangerment. And then right after that was a class actual lawsuit that cost us a million dollars
09:45and, uh, the rest is history, but I'd do it all over again.
09:51Now was the video, the video shot at the Kmart down the street?
09:56That was the same day. The footage of the longhorn didn't make it into the I stand on video because
10:00the judge confiscated the footage for the trial.
10:03Okay. Gotcha. So the record goes on a dirty little mine. Another one that, uh, that got a lot of air
10:11play. Uh, tell us a little bit about that track.
10:13Well, the, what I stand alone was first and then, uh, and then they were gearing up to go with, uh,
10:19they were actually going to go with down on me next. And, uh, they, they had singles pressed
10:24and they were about to ship down on me to radio. And, um, and then the lumberjack broke up
10:30and, uh, cause some asshole started playing it on the radio nonstop. Do you have any idea who that
10:35is? I apologize. It's my fault.
10:39No, it's, uh, it, um, yeah, the record broke up, you know, it was, uh, it was something that
10:44everybody, you know, uh, quickly gravitated to. So that record company adjusted quickly
10:48and, uh, cause they couldn't keep the records on the shelf. And, um, and that record, uh,
10:54you know, exploded and carried us out there and, um, you know, got us up over gold.
11:00And then, and then, uh, dirt down on me followed that and carried us up to where it was platinum.
11:06And then when we let rain came in behind that and just, uh, the record just kept going, you
11:11know, and then, um, and then in between down on me and, and, uh, uh, when we let rain,
11:17they actually, that's when they released dirty little mind. So, because they were letting
11:21everything get realigned, you know, so that they could, you know, push when we let rain.
11:25So, so yeah, so as I stand alone and then down on me, I stand alone lumberjack song down
11:32on me dirty little mind. And then when we let rain. So all those songs were released as
11:37singles and they all charted, you know, just big, big songs. And, uh, and then the, you
11:42know, then we moved on to push comes to shove and headed for destruction and all, you know,
11:46the next album, which, you know, we've again, fortunate enough to have, have great air play
11:51with those as well.
11:52Well, we'll get into those other songs here in a few minutes, but a dirty little mind,
11:54who's the girl in the song?
11:58Um, it was just, uh, some random act of pornography that was happening that happened to be captured.
12:06Oh, that's right. I think you told me this story.
12:08Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, so that was, uh, that was just a moment in time that just happened
12:15to, to work, work out. But, uh, but yeah, it was, you know, cause I think you didn't have
12:20Pro Tools, they didn't have the kind of recording stuff that you would, the computers and stuff
12:25that, you know, we recorded it on the big two inch machines. So it was all analog and it had
12:28to be recorded right there in the most. So whatever was happening, you know, there wasn't,
12:32you know, you couldn't sample stuff necessarily. I mean, you had to grab it, you know, so it was
12:37very much, uh, very much in the moment kind of thing.
12:42So, uh, down on me, another song with the, uh, double entendre, that song, uh, that said here,
12:47uh, it charted 10th on the mainstream charts, but that was a monster hit for you guys as
12:51well. Tell me about that track right there.
12:53Yeah. Uh, well, down on me was, uh, I actually had written down on me, um, several years before
13:01we recorded the first album, because I'd, um, I was at a party and, uh, and the singer for
13:07Kansas was there, Steve Walsh and, uh, Steve Walsh, uh, those people were at the party and
13:13they were complimenting me on, on the, on the band, how, uh, there was another band that
13:18I was in. And at the time, and people were called because the band was doing really well,
13:22really well, you know, packing places out. And, um, so Walsh came, came over and started
13:29a conversation and he was, yeah, we should write together sometime. So I took him at face
13:35value. I thought he was being sincere. So I went back and I, again, I had, I just come
13:40off, came off the road because I was just coming off the road. Cause that was right around
13:43the time I found out I was going to be a father. So I was coming off the road and I went in
13:47and I, I wrote down on me for Kansas and, but I heard a whole nother production with it.
13:53I heard it being kind of a foreigner. I want to know what love is kind of a song.
13:57I feel the sun shining down on me. I feel the heat, you know, that kind of thing. And
14:03with a big production in the chorus and all that stuff, a choir, you know, I heard a choir
14:07singing on it down on me. And, um, and I carried it, uh, try to get Steve Walsh to jump in with
14:14me on it. And he just kind of blew me off a couple of different times. So I just said,
14:18screw it. And then we ended up getting signed. And, uh, this is totally the truth. I swear
14:24on my kids, this is a true story. So that happened about a year or two before we got signed
14:29and, um, and we get signed and the record company, John Collager was sitting in our pre
14:34production studio in Atlanta and we're in there running through, he wanted to hear every
14:38song we'd ever written. So we worked everything up, including down on me. And I recorded, I,
14:44we worked up down on me because I was going to let him have a song he could throw away.
14:48I didn't, in my head, I still heard this real overproduced ballad with Kansas singing it.
14:55Right. And, um, and out of the blue, right after we played that song, Steve Walsh walked into
15:02the rehearsal room. Really? Because, because he heard John was there from Geffen Records and he
15:08walked in to say, Hey to John and John was going to look guys, it's Steve Walsh, Kansas. You know,
15:12we're going to, Hey Steve. So Steve left and John was, how cool is that? You know, Steve Walsh just
15:17came in, you know, to see you guys while you rehearse. I said, yeah, you know, that song that
15:20we played a while ago that down on me song. And he goes, yeah. And I said, I actually wrote that for,
15:26for him. And I said, but he, he blew me off. He didn't ever want to do it. You know?
15:30And John goes, well, you know what the moral of that story is, Jesse Dupree. And I said,
15:33what's that? Because you've got a hit. He don't. And, uh, and that was way before the song was
15:41ever released as a single, but John just had a way of knowing that's why he was the man at
15:47Geffen Records. Right. Yeah. And John appears in one of your videos. We'll talk about that coming up
15:51here in just a little bit. Uh, um, when will it rain? Another track that just made a huge waves for
15:57you guys as well. Tell me about that one. Well, so my son was born and, and he was colicky
16:06nodule. You know, everybody, a lot of people know nodule because he's out playing drums and stuff
16:10doing great now, but nodule was born and he was colicky and, and I was managing a bar and I was
16:15out till wee hours in the morning, closing that place down. And I'd come home and my wife would say,
16:21basically here, you take him, you know, cause it, you know, she'd been wrestling with him,
16:25but I finally got into sleep and, um, and it was freezing cold outside. And I went downstairs in
16:32the basement cause I was living at my dad's house at the time. And I went downstairs in the basement
16:38and I set a little four trap recorder up on, on a sewing machine, my grandmother's antique sewing
16:43machine. Uh, and I sat down there and froze my ass off with a little drum machine and a four
16:50trap recorder writing. When will it rain about the heat being so hot? It was burning holes in my
16:55shoes. And, uh, when would it rain basically, you know, saying, when am I going to get a break
16:59kind of a thing? You know, that's what that song was about. And, uh, so I wrote that song. So then
17:05we get into the studio and, uh, you know, a year later or whatever, and that song ends up making it
17:10to the recording session and Kladner from the record company, John Kladner, he goes, you got to change
17:16that lyric. He said, uh, nobody wants to know from rain. And, uh, so I was, I rewrote the
17:24chorus is about five or six times that we'd send him down demos of the different courses. Finally,
17:29Brendan, we were finishing the record and Brendan goes, look, John, it's swimming with rain. That's
17:33what it is. I mean, you don't like anything else he's done. That's what it is. What were the other
17:37options? John goes, I don't know. I'd seriously, I mean, I, I was just throwing so many things against
17:44the wall trying to come up with ideas, you know, and, um, one was long way from home, long way from
17:50home or just, it was just whatever, just, just a bunch of different stuff that can't remember
17:55everything. But, um, but then the single was released, you know, well into a year plus of the
18:01first album. And, you know, we'd already had a huge successful record. It was doing great. And
18:06the song came out and it went up the charts and upside the top 10, upside the top five and whatever,
18:11it's doing great. And, and the floods broke out up and down the Mississippi river and the
18:18Mississippi river was, you know, 10 miles wide. And so radio stations were having a hard time
18:24continuing to play it because of the rain. And so we ended up not hitting number one with that.
18:31We thought that was going to be our number one single, you know, we'd even done crossover versions
18:36of it and everything because it was so research. So great. I mean, the research on the song was
18:42incredible, but radio stations stopped playing it cause they had rained for 60 days straight.
18:47And John calls me up. He goes, see, I told you nobody wants to know.
18:52He had the last laugh on that one. Uh, uh, redneck punk is the first song on the record that was, uh,
18:59not written by you that I know of Jeff Worley and, uh, Ronnie Honeycutt says,
19:02I've got the writing credits on that one. So what was that? Yeah. Well, um, Ronnie was singing
19:09with Jeff and them before I did that I was booking when I was off the road, when Nadja was born
19:14and I was booking them in to play a bar that I was managing. They, they had a, Ronnie was singing
19:18with him. He's a great guy and a really great guy. And, um, and, uh, but I would sit in with them
19:24and sing. They wanted to play some of my, you know, they wanted to play, I stand alone. They wanted to
19:29play, you know, some of these original songs that I had prior, you know, to Jackal. And so I, you know,
19:35I gave them a little cassette tape. So I'd get up and sing some of my songs with them and some cover
19:41songs and, and the place would just pack out. People wanting, you know, no, you know, you can get
19:47up and jam with them. Y'all going to jam, you know, cause they, it was just a good chemistry.
19:51So it was pretty obvious. And then I wasn't going to be the jerk that, that broke up the band.
19:57So I just, I didn't really say anything. I kept my mouth shut. And then finally, uh, they came to,
20:01you know, Jeff Worley came and he goes, man, why don't you just come sing with us? Cause it works.
20:05You know, and again, that way he kind of gave me a get out of jail free card. Cause I didn't want to,
20:10you know, I didn't want to disrupt what they had going on, but so that was, we were all thinking
20:14the same thing. So we jumped on it and it was, uh, it was, it's been a match made in, in hell, man.
20:20We've been just driving it and beating, beating the hell out of the road and ripping the hell out of our
20:25guitar speakers and cabinets, everything else. That, uh, that last line, when you go, shut up,
20:31how many times did that take? You know, I don't, I mean, I was so full of piss and vinegar back then.
20:37I mean, that was the easy part. I mean, get me to calm, get me to calm down and, and, uh, and actually
20:44sing, you know, cause cause I was just so jacked. I mean, I was ready to just scream, you know,
20:50scream it all under the tape. And it was just, but we were, we were, uh, very honest about where
20:56we came from and who we were. And, um, I don't think we ever, you know, we didn't go into the
21:02studio and try to be something or not. Um, and Brent and going back to Brent, you know,
21:07Brendan was the perfect guy to capture that because he's a guy that just believes in letting it rock.
21:12And, uh, redneck punk will actually come up later on in the record. We'll talk about that. But, uh,
21:16as the first side closes the lumberjack, um, obviously we were talking about earlier, but,
21:21uh, the story goes, uh, that we were playing, I stand alone at the radio station. I was working
21:25at Buffalo and my boss threw me the CD and said, play something else off this record. So I listened
21:30to it. And of course I have to play a song with a chainsaw on it. And, uh, I'll tell you what,
21:34dude, to this day, I've never seen the phone lines light up so fast people bananas. And then, uh,
21:41you know, the, the, the old story is that, you know, you, you actually came and played a free
21:44show for us at the radio station and it was just jam packed, but I mean, when is the first time
21:50you pick up a lumberjack and, uh, I'm sorry, a chainsaw and think I should play this?
21:56Um, well, my standard answer is, is, you know, why not? What, what, what, what more definitive
22:03instrument for rock and roll than a chainsaw? It's loud. It's aggressive. It's destructive. It's
22:07stanky. It's everything that rock and roll should be. Right. But, um, but, uh, yeah, the red,
22:12it came about honestly because, uh, we held the sales and attendance record at a bar in Atlanta.
22:18And I knew we were going to, uh, break the sales and attendance record that night.
22:23So, uh, I threatened the, the owner of the club. I threatened him. I was going to bring a chainsaw
22:30in and cut the place up because it was just all wood. Just the big bar had the wooden canopy that
22:36came down with the glasses hanging under it and stuff. And so, um, I knew I was going to get
22:41away with it. So I went and rented a chainsaw and I went by Walmart and got some mailbox letters and
22:46spelt the name of the band on the bar. And, uh, and I was cutting stuff up that night and the owner
22:53was losing his mind. He, uh, he was an excitable guy and it didn't help that he, he didn't shy away
23:00from doing cocaine. So he was, he could be, he could be wild. He could be wound tight, but, uh,
23:06he didn't fire us because we were making him too much money. And, uh, but at the end of the night,
23:10we were all jamming and it was customary at that place, you know, you get other guitar player buddies
23:14up and let them jam. And so you'd jam on something, you know, a blues tune or something. And, um,
23:21so all the guitar players were taking turns playing their lead break showing off of the girls.
23:25So I pulled one out bigger than theirs and, and jammed on the chainsaw. And then I carried
23:30it back to the tour rental place and forgot about it. And my dad happened to be in the audience that
23:35night. He goes, you need to keep doing that. And I said, yeah, whatever. And about two weeks later,
23:39he shows up in South Carolina in a car. And my dad never rode my car. He was always on his Harley.
23:46And I said, it was rare to see him in a car, but he opened up the trunk of the car and he pulled out
23:50a brand new chainsaw and said, you got to keep doing that.
23:53No kidding. And so then you go to record that song and tell everybody about the studio.
23:59Yeah. We recorded the record in the captain at Sunil's studio, the, you know, the seventies
24:05hits, you know, love, love, love will keep us together. You know, that guy, those in muskrat love,
24:11and you know, all those big hits that they had. They also had the captain and Sunil TV show,
24:16a variety show that used to come on. And, um,
24:19this is in California. Yeah. They're in Canoga park, just in the valley, right? Just north of
24:23Hollywood. And, uh, but guns and roses recorded appetite for destruction there. Motley crew
24:28recorded there. Uh, Aerosmith recorded, I mean, everybody and their brothers recorded at that
24:32place. Uh, when we were recording our first album, the traveling Wilburys were across the
24:37hall from us and Ted Nugent, the damn Yankees were down the hall. So I mean, it was a very rock and roll
24:42studio is a great place. And, um, that's where I saw my first Beatle with George Harrison. Um,
24:48but anyway, um, so yeah. And at night when everybody would leave, we'd go up into the attic
24:54and, and, uh, the captain had still had a bunch of props from their TV show. So the captain had
24:59a big captain's hat and just crazy stuff. And, uh, and, and, um, we, we had went and bought
25:0740 chickens and roosters and we let them loose in the studio. The whole time we were recording
25:13the record, the, the, uh, the, uh, uh, chickens and roosters were running around the studio.
25:19And at night, they would all go into this old drum booth that we didn't use. It's just
25:22old seventies drum booth that they used to put the drums in to isolate them back when they
25:26record stuff in the seventies. And, um, and so, um, at night they would go in there and roost.
25:34And every night we would record the lumberjack song because it had to be captured live.
25:38So we'd record it live every night. And, and, and the producer would come out and stand in
25:44front of me with a microphone and he would chase my chainsaw with the microphone holding it so that
25:48he could, you know, get, make sure he captured it. And then I'd cut, I'd bar into the stool and
25:53everything. And actually we were, we were cutting up furniture and stuff at the studio. And, uh,
25:59John Kalani from the record company called one day, he goes, they tell me you're cutting
26:02up the captain's furniture. And I said, yeah. And I thought I was in trouble. He goes,
26:07I don't give a damn if you cut up that recording console. He said, you better be making, you better
26:11be making a great record. So, so it's pretty cool. But, um, so yeah, at the end of the lumberjack
26:17song, you can hear me, I throw the chainsaw down and I ran into that drum, which was right beside
26:22where I was standing. And he, he followed me with a microphone and the chickens were in there.
26:26And I went, yeah, yeah. And the chicken, but all those were real. I mean, again,
26:30all that had to be recorded in real time because of the way it was back then. But so it'd be dirty
26:35little mind or, or whatever. It was just all done right there in the studio.
26:39Now you mentioned John Glotner a bunch of times already. Well, he was in that video
26:42for, uh, the lumberjack.
26:45Yeah, he was the school teacher, but I mean, he was, that was the rite of passage. I mean,
26:49if you got John to be in your video, you knew you were going to be successful because Sammy
26:53Hagar had him in, I can't drop 55. He was the judge. He's an Aerosmith dude looks like
26:58a lady video with Aerosmith. He was the guy, the bearded guy with the wedding dress.
27:04He's was in that band thunder. He was in their video. He's, he's been in a bunch of videos.
27:07He's a, you know, he's a, he's a, quite a character himself. He's great.
27:12Yeah. So we go to the second side with a reach for me. This is like, uh, this is like maybe
27:16like the, uh, the, the, the love side of Jacqueline.
27:19Yeah. Um, that's probably, you know, I was reading a article with Angus Young from ACDC.
27:31And he was talking about, uh, I guess it's the last song on the back in black album. I think it
27:35might've been back in place. It was, uh, one of their albums. It might've been a highway to hell.
27:40It's either highway to hell or back in black, but he was talking about, I think it was highway to hell.
27:43I think that the last song on the record was, he looks back and, you know, he thought, wow,
27:50that probably didn't fit with the rest of the songs, but it did, you know, I mean,
27:55we've all grown to recognize that's what it is. And, um, and reach for me was, although it's,
28:01you know, I love the song and I think it's great, but it was probably the one song that I felt was
28:06a little different than the rest of them, but it, but it went on there and it had a great course.
28:10You know what I mean? It was a big song, real, real big production song with the,
28:14the vocals and everything, you know, there's a lot of work and it's up there. It's range wise.
28:19It's up there. It's in the key of the, it's in the key of B. So it's, I mean, it's, it's up there.
28:26Yeah. Cause I, if I'm not mistaken, if memory serves me, uh, one of the songs you're singing
28:31really low throughout the whole song, maybe, uh, brain drain or back off brother, you're kind of,
28:35uh, you're singing over the baseline. I'm trying to remember now as we're just talking here,
28:38probably brain drain. Yeah. Yeah. We'll get into that here in, in, uh, just a few, uh, back off
28:42brother. Uh, tell me about this song. I have a couple of notes on it myself, but just, just give
28:47me your memories and your thoughts on writing that song. We've been, uh, we've been playing, um,
28:54back off brother recently and, uh, people just, I mean, it's this rap or the response has been
28:59incredible. Uh, it's just one of those tracks on the first album, but you know, that was,
29:04it was, it was right around that time in the early nineties that, that the government
29:14started politicizing racism. I mean, you know, you know, as far, I mean, not that racism, nothing
29:21of racism proper exists and, and it all walks of life and with every ratio. I mean, it's just out there,
29:28you know, but the government started using it as a tool, you know, and then religion became
29:35something that was politicized, you know, with people attacking the TV preachers that were
29:40given Christianity, a bad name, you know, with the Jimmy Swaggers and, you know, people like that.
29:45And, uh, and, but yeah, so, I mean, the song was basically just an observation because at the time,
29:51all that stuff was fresh as far as fresh meat. Now we're also, I mean, you can't sneeze and
29:57people are calling each other racist or, you know, or, or homophobic or, or, you know, or whatever,
30:05you know, I mean, it's, uh, it's, it's really crazy, you know, how, you know, society has changed
30:11even since the first album, you know, but it, all that was fresh back then, you know, censorship was,
30:16you know, where they were trying to put parental advisory stickers on the record, which on the down
30:21on me video, you know, we're on the parental advisory, that stage is a big parental advisory
30:25sticker, you know, cause it was some, so all, all of that stuff was fresh in the early nineties.
30:30I mean, that, that was so back off brother was me venting about back off brother, you know,
30:37cause you know, it's, you can find racism, you can find bad Christians and you can find,
30:45uh, you know, government corruption, you can find whatever. But I mean, at the end of the day,
30:49uh, you know, I, I live thinking that, that generally people want to do good and they are
30:54good if, you know, you know, uh, you know, just inherently, you know, I don't, I don't look for
30:59the bad in people for the good, but that's the song basically saying, but back off brother.
31:03Yeah. That's a, that's probably as, as, as political as you get on this album.
31:07Yeah. Yeah. So it goes into a brain.
31:09Telling Uncle Sam to kiss my ass. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Exactly. Uh, going into a brain
31:16drain, uh, Jeff Worley and Jimmy's, uh, stiff wrote this song. Uh, tell us about that one.
31:21Well, um, Jimmy and, and Jeff, I mean, you know, they grew up in the sticks of South Carolina
31:28and, um, you know, and they know, you know, they, they had some old backwards guys that would pour,
31:33you know, shoe dye through a filter and drink it, you know, if they could get drunk, you know what I
31:39mean? Just, you know, guys that, you know, find any way to, you know, to, to get drunk if they
31:43couldn't afford a bottle of liquor and they grew up around those, those guys in the backwoods, you
31:48know, guys making their own moonshine and that kind of stuff. And, um, you know, and so brain drain,
31:53you know, um, was kind of a common term used in the South and, you know, with it, especially with
32:01some of the, you could get poison from drinking moonshine out of a, out of a steel, but I mean,
32:06you know, obviously Jeff would do a much better job of, of sharing where they were at when they wrote
32:10it. Um, but I, it wasn't hard for me to wrap my head around it and sing it with everything I had,
32:15you know, it was a great song. Yeah. And that's a one where you, you actually, uh, bring up the
32:18redneck punk again. So it kind of comes back. Yeah. And I get to play, I played harmonica in it.
32:23So that was fun. Yeah. And that song has a strange ending. What was, was that, was, was that
32:28what your guys decision in the studio was so much of the stuff we did was, uh, I think it kind of
32:34like made out and it was almost gone and came back up real fast or something like that. Yeah.
32:38Cause we couldn't, you know, we didn't know if we were going to just fade it out cause it was a
32:41long ending or if we were going to end it because we had, we had to play it live. It was all captured
32:46in the moment. So the, so the Brendan just faded it down and then had it. So we kind of got the
32:52best that we faded it and had a big ending. So that's called having your cake and eat it too.
32:56Yeah. And then we got a couple of love songs to wrap up the record. Uh, just like the devil.
33:01That's like, uh, that's a relationship type song, isn't it? Yeah. Uh, just again, that was,
33:08you talked about a song that was, uh, just full of, you know, fire and brimstone and, um, and,
33:14and another ball buster. I mean, that's in the key of F sharp. I mean, it's, that's another one
33:19that's up there, you know, I mean, as far as, you know, range wise. So it's not hard to not
33:23hard to power up really good on that one. And the lyrics seem to require it.
33:30You, you've had a couple of songs just like this one. Uh, uh, what's that? Uh, I, uh, I'm no way.
33:36I may be drunk, but you ain't right as it was. Um, I'm just, just because I'm drunk. Don't mean
33:40you're right. I've been diving in this record so much all over the weekend. I forgot which one it was.
33:46So, and then we wrap up the album with, uh, I mean, just a pure classic. She loves my cock.
33:51How many times have you played that one live? Um, well, I mean, we've, I mean, we played it live
33:56every single, I mean, we played it live every single show for, you know, for 25 years or something.
34:02We've, we've, um, you know, we changed it up. I mean, it depends. I mean, if we're doing a,
34:05a NASCAR event, we don't play that song. I mean, you know, you know, I mean, we pick and choose,
34:11we pick and choose when we're, when we're pulling that one out, but it's always, I mean,
34:14it's always a fun song to play. It's a great, so it's a great rock and roll riff, man.
34:21It's a, it's, it's an, it, although it doesn't say redneck punk, it's a very redneck punk song,
34:26you know? Yeah. So what did John Kladner say about that song?
34:31Um, you know, I mean, he was all about him. He loved, you know, he loved, uh, the attitude.
34:38He loved where we were from. He used to love coming to Atlanta. Um, and, um, yeah, he, I mean,
34:44he, that guy just, I'm telling you, we were so blessed. Um, he was our Jesus,
34:50you know? I mean, he, um, there's nobody, I mean, we knew we were, I mean, we were broke,
34:54dirt poor, I mean, dirt poor and broke. And we had showcased for all the major labels
35:01and they were all calling us, wanting to sign us. I mean, we had Simon Potts who had signed,
35:08like, I think you too, or something, a bunch of, I mean, a bunch of big, I mean, we had, um,
35:14Jason Flom, you know, from Atlantic records. I mean, he was calling, I mean, I was, again,
35:19I was having to live at my dad's house cause I couldn't afford to stay anywhere. And, and
35:22Jason Flom called my dad's house wanting us to sign with Atlantic. And I literally told him,
35:27I said, I told all of them, we want John Kladner to sign us. If he passes, I'll call you back.
35:33Hmm. And we were hungry and dirt poor. And, but so confident that we knew what we had. And so we
35:43didn't jump at the first record deal. We had major, major label heavyweights. You know, I mean, Jason,
35:48did what Kid Rock, uh, Matchbox 20. I mean, you know, I mean, the guy's the mega, mega, uh, A and R guy.
35:56I think he has a binge segment phone now, but I mean, he's, you know, he's, he's a mega, uh, music
36:01Titan. And, uh, same thing with Simon Potts and all these other people that would, Nick Turzo,
36:06all these other people that were coming to see us. But we were like saying, no, we're good.
36:11We're going to get signed by John. And we didn't know how we were going to get signed by John.
36:14He hadn't seen us or nothing. I had to literally, I had to threaten our music attorney. I threatened him
36:21physically. I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm not ashamed to say this, but I probably shouldn't say it
36:26legally, but I threatened him. I threw, I threatened to, uh, to go to Nashville and find him and tar and
36:35feather him if he did not deliver John Kolodner. And he did. John signed us on the spot.
36:43So he, John cared. They told us, they said, John's going to come see you play.
36:47Don't expect him to stay for the whole show. Don't expect to get to eat dinner with him or anything.
36:53Cause he's, he's just in and out, you know, and you probably won't even get a chance to meet him.
36:58Cause he's, he's probably just pop in and out. So we said, okay, you know, just as long as he pops
37:05his head in and out, we'll be okay. And he ended up showing up. He watched the whole show.
37:11He came down front with that notepad of his, these little leather binder note thing that he made.
37:17Now, so the Sammy Hagar and Steven Tyler, everybody talks about John's notepad.
37:22So he came and he made notes while we were on stage. He came back into the dressing room after
37:27the show. So we got to meet him. And then he says, I'm going to take you guys to lunch tomorrow.
37:31So we were going to get to eat with him. So, so anybody that was wanting to take us to eat,
37:35we, those record company guys, we were making them take us to big fancy dinners.
37:39Cause we were hungry and broke. And so we'd go to expensive places.
37:43But John goes, I'm taking you guys to eat lunch tomorrow. We said, okay, great.
37:46So we thought, well, if nothing else, we'll get a big meal out of it. And he goes,
37:50meet me at the food court at the mall. So we met him at the Lenox. Well, luckily,
37:55they got a decent food court. So we sat in a California pizza kitchen and, and we sat down.
38:01And he goes, I'm going to sign you guys under two conditions.
38:07One, you don't come off the road. You got to stay on the road. And we were like, yes,
38:11because we didn't want to get pulled off the road. You know,
38:13a lot of guys will pull you off the road and make you go write a bunch of songs.
38:16We'd already written a bunch of songs. We just, he goes, you don't come off the road.
38:19You got to stay on the road. And we said, okay. And he said, the second thing,
38:22he looked at me, he goes, you got to lose seven pounds.
38:25It wasn't five. It wasn't 10. It's set for somebody.
38:28He's got to lose seven pounds. And he goes, I want you to look hungry.
38:32And, uh, so I sat there while they ate lunch and I didn't eat.
38:37Yeah. Wow.
38:39Wow. So, and I'll wait, and I'll wait. And I, by the way,
38:41I probably weighed about 155 pounds at the time. Yeah.
38:46How many songs did you write for this record that didn't make the record?
38:51Um, there was, I mean, there was a, uh,
38:54there was probably another double amount of songs that, you know,
38:58some of which, you know, a secret of the bottle, uh,
39:01ended up making it on a record eventually. Um,
39:05trying to think of what else eventually made something. Uh,
39:08there was a couple of, of, uh, bonus tracks,
39:11a song called walking change that you can find.
39:15And it's out there. Uh,
39:17it was a B side to wind with rain, I think the single. So there's,
39:20there's a handful of songs. Uh, there was another live version,
39:24I think of redneck punk that we recorded in Seattle and the guys,
39:28the guys from Nirvana was at the show and,
39:31and, uh, we broke into,
39:33I stand alone and they started slam dancing and Nirvana got kicked out.
39:40They got kicked out of a jackal show.
39:42They got kicked out of a jackal show for slam dancing. Yeah.
39:45And, uh,
39:46and so I ran over to the road manager and I said,
39:50you got to let them back in.
39:51And so he went over to the side door,
39:54kicked it open and they came back in and stood on the side of the stage and
39:57they were drinking draft beer out of gallon milk jugs.
40:01Yeah. And, uh,
40:02we ended up having to help Kirk get to the car that night.
40:08And, uh, I mean,
40:10sitting in Courtney loves lap like a baby is kind of funny, but yeah,
40:15it's a, that was all crazy. Again,
40:18that was all before everything you had really broke for either one of us,
40:21you know? Yeah. No kidding. Uh, real fast. Uh, last thing here for you,
40:25tell me about the, uh, the cover artwork in the back artwork of the record.
40:28Whose idea was that?
40:31Um,
40:33that album cover, I mean, it was a discussion that we all had. Um,
40:38and I was meeting with a guy named, um, Michael.
40:44I can't think of his last name. He's his name, his credits are on the record,
40:47but, um,
40:48he was the art director and we were talking about having an album cover of all
40:54of us as dogs. And we'd done, we, if you look on the back,
40:57there's a photo shoot we had done. So we did a photo shoot.
41:00And that drawing of the dogs is, is,
41:03is mimicking the photograph on the back of the album. And, uh,
41:08and, and there was actually other photos from that shoot on the inside of the
41:12sleeve of the vinyl. And, um,
41:15but they got the artist that did that was the guy that, um, that,
41:19that originally drew the smoke and Joe camel cartoon for the camel cigarettes.
41:24Oh, really? I didn't know that, man.
41:25Yeah. It's a, it's a French guy. And, uh, Johnny dare,
41:28my buddy, Johnny out of Kansas city, you know, the,
41:32the radio guy down there, uh, Johnny, uh, found it,
41:35tracked it down, uh, within the last couple of years,
41:38he tracked that guy down and bought it from him and sent it to me.
41:41So I've got the original painting from that Jackal album.
41:46Wow. That's cool. So is that like a bigger record, a bigger picture?
41:51It was actually done pretty close to size. I mean, it was, uh,
41:55it was done cause they had to,
41:56he had to draw it and then they had to photograph it.
42:00So it was, uh, they, he painted it and then they shot it.
42:03And, uh, the way or however they did that. And, uh, but yeah,
42:07so the actual original painting was, it was close to outside.
42:12Well, Jesse, thanks so much for doing track by track here with me. Of course,
42:15uh, August, 1992, that debut record came out and it's been a world win ever since.
42:22You know, uh, we've been very blessed and, and,
42:24and it's all because of the people that, that support, you know,
42:29our diabolical lifestyle of rock and roll. Uh, I, I,
42:33I can't tell you how much we appreciate everyone. I mean, you, I mean,
42:36look how long you and I've been tight with each. I mean, you've,
42:38you've been alone this whole ride with us and you've seen so many shows and,
42:42and we, you and I've done so many interviews and, and, uh, you know,
42:45we just don't take it for granted. I mean, it's, it's, it's, we've, uh,
42:49we, we value all of our relationships with, with the likes of you and, and,
42:53and everybody that's standing in front of the stage every night,
42:55not coming to see the Jackal show, you come to be part of it. Right.
42:59And, uh, so again,
43:01very blessed and we're not going to stop too much.
43:03We're celebrating 30 years of Jackal this year. And, uh,
43:06that's just that first album is our 30th anniversary.
43:08So I'll mention that since you're happening to highlight it, uh,
43:11but yes, our 30th anniversary of the first Jackal album. And we're, uh,
43:15no sign of stopping. We're going to keep, keep knocking down some memories.
43:19Awesome. Well, can't wait to see you again, Jesse. Thanks.
43:21Thanks so much for doing this.
43:23I appreciate you. Have a, have a great day, man. Keep it off going.
43:26You're doing a great thing, man. Seriously. I'm proud of you,
43:28all the stuff you're doing is great.
43:29I appreciate it. Thanks, Jesse.
43:31All right. Thanks.
43:32And there it is.
43:33The story of Jackal's debut record track by track,
43:36as told to us by none other than Jesse James Dupree.
43:39Hey, thank you guys so much for watching.
43:41Don't forget episode one of track by track is up as well.
43:44As Brent Smith talks about shinedown's first record, leave a whisper.
43:48In the meantime, I'm meltdown.
43:49Thank you so much for watching and listening to track by track.
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