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00:00We went to a wonderful dinner the night before and we all talked about Ozzy and all our admiration.
00:04It was a mutual admiration and I think he understood my respect that I showed him through the effort.
00:10Ass kissing can go a long way in this business, but Ozzy knew what was going on.
00:14He was a very sharp, intelligent individual.
00:17Why else would he have me on drums for so long?
00:20Rock, metal, frog, and everything in between.
00:24Welcome to this episode of Talkin' Rock with Meltdown.
00:27Don't forget to follow the audio-only Talkin' Rock podcast on all podcast platforms.
00:32And now, it's time for today's conversation.
00:35Here's Meltdown.
00:36You would never go on a cruise, eh? Is that right?
00:39Hell no.
00:40If it goes bad, if a cruise goes bad, it can be great for you rock fans.
00:44But if it goes bad, I ain't down with it.
00:47I want out of there.
00:49Like I said to you two minutes ago, Meltdown, if it pays me a lot of money, it will calm
00:55my fears.
00:56Everything will ease on out.
00:58The rough seas will be okay.
01:00I'll tell you what.
01:02The first night I ever spent on a cruise, it was like 40-mile-an-hour winds outside.
01:06And that boat was steady as a rock.
01:09It didn't even move.
01:10Like, it was unbelievable how steady it was.
01:11Really?
01:12Oh, gosh.
01:12I'm not into it.
01:13And I can't swim being from Detroit.
01:15You wouldn't ever know.
01:16But I can't even swim.
01:18My wife and my daughter laugh at me.
01:20So I'm not a water dude or a sports guy or anything.
01:23But I do play Detroit rock and roll.
01:26That's right.
01:27And you are coming to town on April 23rd.
01:29Hey, we should do a duo here, man.
01:30We should do a duo.
01:32Yeah, I know.
01:34April 23rd at the Token Lounge.
01:36You've been there before.
01:36You've played with Dead Daisies there before.
01:38You've done a bunch of shows.
01:39I've played there.
01:40It's an old home at this point.
01:41I can't wait to come back April 23rd to the Token Lounge.
01:44The checkered floor.
01:45You still smell that beer.
01:47You still smell the remnants of when people used to smoke indoors.
01:50Oh, I love it.
01:51They should make a candle out of it.
01:53Yeah, that's a good idea, man.
01:54You could make some money off that one.
01:55Yeah, the Token Smoke Candle.
01:58The Smoking Token Candle.
02:01Exactly.
02:01Yeah.
02:02All right.
02:03We'll talk to John about that.
02:05I was just going to say, we've got to get a hold of John and see what he thinks about
02:08this idea.
02:08So you're doing some other shows coming up.
02:11What else you got going on?
02:13Yeah, well, I got the April 23rd, which we're going to rock.
02:17We are going to destroy.
02:18I got some pent-up rock and roll energy.
02:21We're going to, like, I'm just going to burst.
02:23So I hope everybody in Detroit can come on out and support their hometown rock and roll drum daddy, Tommy
02:30Clefetis, and my band, Tommy's Rock Trip.
02:32That's the main reason I wanted to talk to you, because we want to get everybody who's never seen me
02:37in a small place in the Token Lounge, because I got my own group, Tommy's Rock Trip, like I said.
02:43We're tight.
02:44We're rock and roll.
02:45It's me and three young guys, even though I play like I'm younger than they are.
02:50And we're just going to blow it up.
02:51I think it's going to be a rock and roll Brooks Detroit leather wearing, jean wearing, black T-shirt, slick
02:59back hair, old school tattooed, smoking indoors crowd.
03:03That's who I want to see.
03:04You know, like when you buy a leather jacket and you go, ooh, I don't want that.
03:07It smells like smoke.
03:09That's a Detroit leather jacket.
03:11And that's the kind of music that we're going to bring back home.
03:15Yeah, I saw you.
03:16So that's that.
03:16Yeah, I saw you last September open up for a new Token Outdoors.
03:20Tell me what you thought.
03:21Tell me more about how it was awesome.
03:23What was awesome about it?
03:24Well, first of all, I thought one of the I thought one of the more unusual things in your thing
03:28is that you're kind of like the leader of the band, even though you're behind the drums.
03:31You take the microphone and you do all the stuff.
03:33So not kind of the leader.
03:37OK, how's being nice?
03:39No, it is different.
03:40I think I've taken something that could be a negative and somehow I've learned to control or front the band,
03:48as they say, from behind the drums.
03:50So I look back and I go, you know, I'm not really a jazz drummer.
03:54But back in the day, jazz drummers did that, whether it was a Gene Krupa or a Buddy Rich, they
03:59fronted somehow they were the leader of the band.
04:02And I kind of take that model and I do it in a rock and roll thing from behind rock
04:07and roll drums.
04:07And it really comes off because we're all out front.
04:11You know, the drums are where they should be.
04:13Finally, at the very front of the stage.
04:15That's right.
04:16And somehow I make this little rock and roll party experience come off.
04:20So I hope you can come see it for yourselves.
04:22It's in Westland.
04:23Who doesn't want to go to Westland on a Thursday?
04:25That's right.
04:26There's everybody.
04:27Yeah.
04:27The 80s slice of 80s pizza is right around the corner.
04:31Oh, I can I can taste the grease.
04:34Yeah, that's right.
04:34I use it to slip back my hair.
04:37So, you know, it's funny because like like Lars will sometimes get from behind the drum
04:41kit and start talking to the crowd.
04:43Yeah, that kind of stuff, you know.
04:45No, and he does a good job of it, too.
04:46He's kind of the same thing.
04:48I mean, it's not really what I.
04:52I always envisioned like in the 70s, bands were always kind of in a line.
04:57And I kind of liked that where there wasn't really necessarily a front front man, a singer
05:02in front of the drums.
05:03But like Jimi Hendrix, everybody's in a line.
05:05Cream.
05:06Everybody was in a straight line.
05:08So it's kind of that that kind of thing going on.
05:11It was cool.
05:12No, it's great, man.
05:13I mean, Jesus Christ, you hit so hard.
05:16The band sounds great.
05:18And yeah, I can't say enough good things.
05:20It was it was awesome.
05:22Hey, let's talk about what you what you did a couple of weeks ago.
05:25This Brit Awards thing.
05:26You want to talk about something that was really impressive.
05:29The video of that was fantastic.
05:31I talked about this on the radio, the flames.
05:34I mean, just paying tribute to Ozzy.
05:37Talk about that night.
05:39It was quite the production now, wasn't it?
05:41Yeah.
05:44And we we were the closer of the night.
05:47There were, you know, with all these modern acts there, Harry Styles and blah, blah, blah,
05:51blah, blah.
05:52You know, you know, you see all the people that I don't know who the hell they are.
05:56But, you know, there's something from Instagram or something, Dua Lupa and Noel Gallagher from
06:02Oasis is right there and you're having the dinner.
06:04And then we went and rocked at the very end of it with Robbie Williams, who's a huge star
06:10over there in Britain, like one of the biggest CPAC stadiums.
06:14And I thought he did a great job singing No More Tears, which is not an easy song to sing
06:19or any Ozzy song to sing is very difficult.
06:24You can tell a difference when somebody else sings an Ozzy song.
06:27But I thought he did a wonderful job.
06:29And me, Zach Wilde played, who's always awesome.
06:32And Robert Trujillo from Metallica, speaking of Metallica, played.
06:36And Adam from Ozzy's band, along with myself.
06:38So I thought we did a great job.
06:40I thought it sounded great.
06:41I thought I looked great, which is very important.
06:44And I thought we did a great job paying tribute to the greatest rock and roller of all time,
06:49Ozzy Osbourne, who I sincerely miss.
06:52And his presence was there, and Sharon was there, and Kelly was there.
06:56And everybody loves Ozzy, and we all will to the end of time.
07:00His music and his memory and his legacy will carry on.
07:03And I'll do so.
07:04We pay a tribute to him every night when we play one or two or more of his songs.
07:09And I think we do a wonderful job.
07:10And people definitely react.
07:14And so, you know, it's really cool that you are really connected with the Ozzy camp, you know, after all
07:19these years.
07:20Well, I mean, I was in his organization for 15 years.
07:23Right.
07:24But, I mean, just growing up in Detroit, though, did you ever think that you would be so connected with
07:28the Ozzy camp?
07:29That's crazy to think.
07:30Well, in a strange idea, yes, I did think, whether it was Ozzy or somebody else,
07:35I did envision whatever's happened in my life to happen, and I envisioned more to happen.
07:41It's just I didn't get into drums to play at the corner bar.
07:45Even though I played at the corner bar, I got no problem with it.
07:48But I had the biggest aspirations.
07:50I still do.
07:51And that's where my fire comes from, is I want.
07:55They say, well, you can't play in every band.
07:58And I go, why not?
08:00Why can't you?
08:01Why can't you?
08:03I can do whatever I want.
08:05And wherever my talent leads me, I will follow.
08:07And that's what I've always done.
08:09And it's led to playing with Ozzy Osbourne and Black Sabbath and Rob Zombie and Alice Cooper.
08:13But I always approached it the same when I was playing at home in Detroit,
08:18the same death grip of the drumsticks and going for it.
08:23That's where I got my craft.
08:25That's where I got to play for all these greats, is from playing in Detroit like it was the end.
08:31Because it's always the end.
08:32And that's what I'm going to do at the Token Lounge.
08:35I'm going to play just like I was playing at the Brit Awards.
08:37Like I'm on Everybody's Watching, because everybody always is watching.
08:43Just like when we listen to Meltdown.
08:46You hearken back to the old school radio DJs that were a personality, and you're out there.
08:51You're riding your motorcycle.
08:52You're meeting people.
08:53People love talking to you.
08:55You have a great personality.
08:56Sometimes I do interviews.
08:57These people are the new school.
09:00It's like, come on, man.
09:01Do you know you're in the entertainment business?
09:03And it's not being it's not about being a used car salesman, but it's about having a passion for what
09:09you do.
09:09And hopefully that passion ignites inside of you and you can't help but let it out.
09:15I can't help but let it out.
09:16When I get behind my drums and I do what I do, the Motor City and playing gigs till four
09:23in the morning and lugging my gear in the snow and loading up the PA and and bar owners screwing
09:28you on money and all these hard things, all these things that you secretly love come through the passion of
09:35what I do.
09:36Yeah, no.
09:37Was that was that an answer of how did you ever think you'd play for Ozzy?
09:41You were you were definitely passionate.
09:43There's no question about that.
09:44So what is it like when you get the call?
09:46Did it did Sharon?
09:47How what kind of advance notice did you have?
09:49You're gonna be doing this disparate awards.
09:51It was it was very quick.
09:53I hopped on a plane and I flew to England in Manchester, England, and we played for four minutes at
09:59the end of the day and then I came home the next day.
10:01You guys didn't rehearse.
10:02We were hurt.
10:03We did like a run through for the cameras the day before once or twice.
10:08And that was it.
10:09Rehearse.
10:10What do you need?
10:11If you got it, you got it.
10:13That's right.
10:13But everybody's a pro.
10:16You can just do that.
10:18You know what I mean?
10:18When everybody's the right piece of the puzzle, it's when you get the wrong piece of the puzzle that these
10:25three guys may have it together.
10:26But if this one guy doesn't, oh, we got to run it 30 times.
10:30It becomes a drag.
10:31So it's a pleasure whenever I play with professionals such as Zach, Robert Trujillo, Adam, myself and Robbie Williams.
10:38What a night.
10:39Sharon was out there.
10:40We went to a wonderful dinner the night before and we all talked about Ozzy and all our admiration and
10:45our love for the family.
10:45And it was a nice, special moment to do that thing because it was a little calmer than being on
10:51the road kind of thing.
10:52And it was so cool because I think I texted you last year when I was reading this book.
10:56Ozzy gave you mad props in his book.
10:59He really thought highly of you.
11:02I thought very highly of him.
11:03It was a mutual admiration.
11:05And I think he understood my respect that I showed him through the effort that I gave him.
11:11And I think, what else can you do as a musician?
11:14You know, ass kissing can go a long way in this business, but Ozzy knew what was going on.
11:21He was a very sharp, intelligent individual.
11:23Why else would he have me on drums for so long?
11:26That's right.
11:27So what's going on with the other projects?
11:29Dead Daisies?
11:30What's happening with that?
11:31Well, I don't know what's going on with them.
11:32I think they announced a gig in May where we'll be playing somewhere where I'm actually playing the day after
11:38the Token Lounge at the Arcata Theater,
11:40which is a great joint in St. Charles, Illinois, Arcata Theater on the 24th, the Friday, April 24th.
11:49If anybody's out in the Chicago area, we're going to Midwest rock you there, too.
11:53So I do a lot of recording here.
11:56I have a studio built out back where I play on people's tracks.
12:00I do a lot.
12:01It's just that's starting to build up.
12:02If you want to get a hold of me, it's TommyKillerDrums at gmail.com.
12:06I'll play on your record.
12:07I do a lot of solo gigs all around the country, and that's starting to get built up.
12:13And just little things keep popping up, and I go for it.
12:17Wherever my thing goes, I go.
12:19Yeah, and you're down there in Nashville, and we've talked about this before, but, you know,
12:23have you discovered, like, I mean, obviously the rock scene down there.
12:27You connect with people down there.
12:29You're getting on some other projects as well.
12:30Listen, I am a rock scene, and I'm an old man at this point.
12:36I don't leave my bubble.
12:38Really?
12:39So it's hard to get me out of the house because, I mean, do I really want to go hear
12:44another
12:44rock band?
12:45But I do.
12:45With the young guys in my group, I kind of stay connected to that because they're quite
12:50younger than me, and I kind of ā there is more of a rock ā I'd say there's more of
12:53a rock scene here than there was in Los Angeles.
12:56There's really a young 20 to 30 age of people.
13:01They get dressed up.
13:01They go out.
13:02They do their hair up, kind of like the 80s.
13:04You know what I mean?
13:06But that was really never my thing.
13:08I really never went out.
13:09Even when I was younger, I was always focused on plowing through.
13:14I wanted to play gigs, not go to gigs.
13:16I don't like going to gigs.
13:18I want to do the gig.
13:20You know what I mean?
13:21And believe it or not, even when I go see somebody, even if I've played in their band,
13:26I feel out of place.
13:28It doesn't feel right for me to be in somebody else's dressing room or hanging out.
13:33I feel comfortable on stage.
13:34I don't feel so comfortable off stage, which is kind of an odd thing because a lot of guys,
13:39they love that kind of stuff.
13:41And I do appreciate watching good musicians, but I would like to see something out of my
13:46genre, maybe like a blues thing or a great jazz thing.
13:50Something like that is kind of fun for me to go see.
13:53Well, I remember years back, my wife prized me and she took me to see Chris Christofferson.
13:59And I was just like, yes, this I'm enjoying.
14:03It's him and his guitar and the art of him, of what he does was refreshing to me.
14:10No, he's great.
14:11Just like, you know, just like when he talked to Zach, Zach's all about yacht rock.
14:15So he's not listening to metal all day long, you know?
14:17No, no.
14:18I listen to a lot of old rock that I came up with, you know, 50s and 60s and Jerry
14:22Lee
14:23Lewis and Fats Domino and Little Richard and Chuck Berry and all these old blues guys like
14:27Elmore James and Jimmy Reed and all these kind of things.
14:33That's what I like.
14:35But that's the basis of rock and roll.
14:37So I steal from that and I secretly put it into what I do and I dress it a different
14:42way.
14:42So people think it's heavy metal, but really it's just rock and roll from the earliest
14:47forms.
14:48And I think that's maybe why my drumming is different, especially right now.
14:52How this music has become such a pyrotechnic thing with the Instagram and the, and all
14:58this 45 second.
15:00It's like, you can't even follow what's going.
15:02Yeah, it's great.
15:05But it's, I'm coming from a different place.
15:07I'm coming of playing in music with bands and hopefully getting the audience involved,
15:11not musicians.
15:12You know, my thing, my thing is to play for the people, not for musicians.
15:16That was a no, no, where I came from.
15:18You're playing for the crowd.
15:19You want, you want to grab that crowd, not just 10 geeks in the audience who, you know,
15:26who play with a Kemper amplifier and no headstock guitar.
15:29That's nerds.
15:31This is rock and roll, baby.
15:33Hey, speaking of drummers, have you, I don't know, did you grow up a Rush fan?
15:38I wasn't, I appreciate Rush, but I wasn't a Rush guy.
15:43That wasn't my thing, but they do have a wonderful new female drummer who I've seen
15:48play with Jeff Beck.
15:49I'm sure she's going to do awesome.
15:51Yeah.
15:52Annika Niles.
15:52Yeah.
15:52I was going to ask you if you even had any inkling about her.
15:55Yeah.
15:56We, we have the same symbol endorsement company.
15:59So I have met her and I saw her play and she's a phenomenal drummer and I'm sure
16:03they're just going to go sell out everywhere.
16:06Yeah.
16:06Yeah.
16:06But did, did, did you, I mean, obviously you could appreciate Neil growing up, right?
16:11No, he, absolutely.
16:12Like I said, I appreciate, right.
16:14That wasn't my side of things.
16:15Gotcha.
16:16That wasn't where I was coming from.
16:18And you know what I found out as I got older, everybody, they tell you, oh, you got to listen.
16:22You got to enjoy all types of music.
16:24You got to, you got to, you got to be so well-rounded.
16:27And the older I get, I go, why, why can't you just like what you like and that's okay too.
16:33And maybe do your thing.
16:36The older I've gotten, I, I, you can appreciate other things in music and you can, and you
16:41can partake, but that doesn't mean because somebody else is a big band that you have to
16:46like, love it.
16:47I'm not saying I don't appreciate it, but it doesn't get my guts.
16:51Like it gets somebody else's guts.
16:54You know what I mean?
16:55And they're not going to get off on the same music that I get off on.
16:57That's the cool thing.
16:59You know?
17:00Yeah.
17:00So yes, I absolutely appreciate them.
17:03They're a killer band.
17:04I did watch their documentary and what a story.
17:06And I do have utmost respect for Neil's approach and his dedication and the way he spoke about
17:13his family and, and certain things like this, that I definitely, definitely connect to that
17:19side, maybe more so than the actual, I like some of their older stuff where it was killer
17:25rock and stuff.
17:25I did like that.
17:27Yeah.
17:27So yes, it's all the above.
17:30Yeah.
17:31I wanted, I wanted to pass this along and tell people that when I saw you back in September,
17:35your dad was there and I've never had an artist father come up to me and go, Oh, I've listened
17:39to you for years, which, which was really cool.
17:42But you're old.
17:43Well, that we're both old.
17:44Right.
17:44Exactly.
17:45But your, your dad, a huge fan of yours.
17:48Tell me about the influence that your parents had in your growing up in Detroit.
17:52To me, parents are everything.
17:54I have a little one who's not so little.
17:56She's eight years old.
17:57And I hope that my, I am my daughter, daughter's hero.
18:02Like my father is my hero.
18:04And I can pass that along and teach and mold and sculpt and, and whatever that is, my parents
18:13were there.
18:14We came from nothing and they taught me how to work hard and how to devote myself and
18:20to stay at it.
18:22And to go, go, go.
18:24And that's the Detroit way, isn't it?
18:27That really is the Detroit way more than anywhere I've ever been.
18:31It's a real blue collar, black and white scene.
18:36And that's how I was raised.
18:38You know, my, my dad is my hero.
18:39He taught me more than anybody I've ever worked for.
18:43And we, we talk every day.
18:45He's gone through a lot of, a lot of tough things with his health right now.
18:48And just seeing him finally bounce back after having some battles, he's a fighter.
18:54Detroiters are fighters.
18:55It's in the, it's in the blood.
18:57It's in the clefetis blood.
18:59And it's going to be in my kid's blood.
19:01So again, what a, you know, from, from, I started playing in my dad's group in little
19:06clubs and doing little things around town.
19:09And everybody would tell me, you can't play that way.
19:11You can't do it that way.
19:12All the other musicians, but we would have long talks after every gig and you do this
19:18and you don't listen to any, but you listen, but you don't listen.
19:21If that makes sense, you take what makes sense to you and you got to hold on to that because
19:26it can get confusing growing up.
19:27If you listen to everybody else, you're going to be like everybody else.
19:31The point of this music thing or even life is to do your thing, do your thing.
19:37And if it connects with people, great, but you don't manipulate yourself or what your
19:42beliefs are.
19:43I'm getting a little heady here for riff rock, but that's kind of the, the, the rock and
19:48roll way.
19:49It's supposed to be free.
19:50It's supposed to be your way.
19:52And I'm going to do it my way.
19:53And we're going to see that April 20 fucking third at the token lounge.
19:58You do it your way.
19:59You get on the radio and you're entertaining and you're vibrant and you're, you capture
20:03people's attention.
20:04And we can tell that you're a fan of the music through your passion and your enthusiasm.
20:09Well, thank you, man.
20:10That means a lot.
20:11You know, it's funny.
20:11It's like growing up in Buffalo and then spending the last 30 years here, there is a certain
20:16grinding mentality to this.
20:17There is.
20:18And you know, I don't know if people know this or not, but I woke up this morning to
20:21go play hockey and it was 16 degrees.
20:23Okay.
20:23It's middle of March and you have to grind.
20:27If you're in this kind of climate, you are, you're from Buffalo.
20:30So that's nothing.
20:31You probably had shorts on, but, but I mean, Buffalo, there's maybe something about the
20:37cold or the brutal winners that you just push baby.
20:41Yeah.
20:42All these other, like these young guys, these young people that I see, everybody seems like
20:46a wimp Detroiters, or I don't know if they're different now, but I was raised to be tough.
20:52Thank God.
20:53I thank God I was raised to be tough mentally.
20:56You have to have thick skin and those things really lend itself to the music business because
21:01it's a long, hard, hounding road, mentally, physically.
21:08It's a long road.
21:10You got to think of the long haul and what works best for you.
21:13And you just go out there and play your guts out and whatever comes up of that is really
21:18what your life as a musician is going to be.
21:20But you can watch other things.
21:22I grew up in Detroit and I would watch all the musicians who didn't do it or did it for
21:28a minute and I would go, well, I don't really want to end up in my mom's basement, so maybe
21:33don't do A, B, and C.
21:35You can learn that way too by other people's mistakes.
21:39And my parents taught me those things.
21:41They taught me core values and all these, everything that I am hopefully should be from
21:46everybody's parents, good and bad.
21:49You know what I mean?
21:50Well, I think that you're a lot like me and that you're afraid of failure.
21:53I was afraid of failure, you know, and here we are 36 years into this business because
21:57I didn't want to fail.
21:58So I push and I grind and I hustle.
22:01Well, what is failure or what is success?
22:05You know, there's times when you're riding higher than others, but I've never failed in
22:09my life because I've always given it everything I have.
22:14Whether you win, if you gave it all, of course you got to win.
22:18But if you did everything you could in your power and something doesn't work out in this
22:23political business that radio is and music is and sometimes life is, if you did everything
22:29you could and you gave your best, it's easier to walk away with a full heart after that.
22:34But if you're a wimp and you, and you can't handle the work and you don't give it everything
22:44you got and you don't get everything out of that, then you end up in your parents' basement
22:48and you're probably a dud because of it.
22:51But you're successful kids, young people, if you go kick ass to the maximum that you
22:57can, that's how I look at it.
22:59So every time I, my father taught me, every time you get up on that stage, it's a sacred
23:05thing.
23:06You put your game face on, doesn't matter how many people are out there, you go up there
23:11and you do it.
23:13You give the people something to walk away with and hopefully that's how you build something.
23:19Whether it's, you're a builder, whether you're a plumber, whether you're a radio guy, whether
23:24you're a drummer, whether you're a baseball player, every pitch should be thrown with the
23:29same intent or purpose.
23:31Doesn't always mean it's going to go in the same spot, but the more you do it, the better
23:36you get at it.
23:37Well, I'll tell you what, April 23rd, like you said, Tommy's Rock Trip, we're going to see
23:41you there.
23:42And man, I can't wait.
23:44It's going to be an awesome night of high energy Detroit rock and roll.
23:47I really hope you can come on out, Melrod.
23:49I'll be there.
23:50See the thing.
23:51I think you're going to really dig it.
23:53I'll buy you a beer.
23:55Don't threaten me with a good time.
23:57I'll buy one, I said, one, a beer, a beer, and get the hell out of there.
24:02Thank you, Meltdown.
24:03Thank you, Detroit.
24:04Thank you, Riff.
24:05Check out Talking Rock with Meltdown on all podcast platforms and WRIF.com.
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