00:00 I think Maurice will be remembered on two scores.
00:04 One is somebody who broke through the glass ceiling.
00:07 She will leave the Senate as the longest serving woman in the history of the Australian Senate,
00:12 the first woman to have ever been appointed as Australia's Minister for Defence, and also,
00:17 of course, the first to be both Minister for Defence and Minister for Foreign Affairs,
00:22 and the only to date to hold both of those portfolios.
00:25 So it really is a notable score of achievements there.
00:29 But really importantly, it's what Maurice has done with those roles as well.
00:34 And in the foreign policy space, her leadership of the Pacific Step Up, seeing the opening
00:39 of six new embassies or high commissions across Pacific Island nations, the establishment
00:45 of the new infrastructure financing facility for the Pacific, of new climate financing
00:50 models, was really integral alongside the work to take the Quad to a new leader, to
00:58 a new level, I should say, the first ever ministerial meetings of the Quad, followed
01:02 by the first ever leader level meetings of the Quad.
01:05 Big, big achievements and development of AUKUS.
01:09 So Maurice, you can see, is well regarded not just in Australia, but internationally
01:14 as demonstrated by the US recently asking Maurice to act as the ship's sponsor for the
01:20 USS Canberra, which was the first ship they ever commissioned outside of the US.
01:25 And so it's a demonstration of the high regard she has held in internationally.
01:30 Do you think now is the right time for her to go?
01:32 Would you have liked to have seen her stay on longer?
01:37 Maurice Payne is a sharp intellect, is very thoughtful and considered in her approach.
01:43 It brings to politics a calmness, a consideration and a diligence that is important amidst people.
01:50 And I've got no doubt that she could continue to give and to contribute.
01:54 But I also understand that having reached the point where she's the longest serving
01:59 member of the Senate at present, as well as being the longest serving woman in history,
02:03 that at some stage there's a time to go and do other things.
02:05 And particularly when in Maurice's case, she's had those huge and challenging portfolios
02:10 that she delivered in for Australia.
02:13 There have been rumblings for some time that Senator Maurice Payne would be leaving Parliament.
02:18 That now has been confirmed today.
02:20 Scott Morrison, the former Prime Minister, has also been talked about as someone that
02:24 would leave before the next election.
02:26 Have you heard anything about his intentions, what he plans to do?
02:29 No, Scott continues to work as the member for Cook to make a contribution there in the
02:36 Parliament.
02:37 He has a unique place in the Parliament as a former Prime Minister, but it's not unprecedented
02:41 for former Prime Ministers to be there and to represent their constituency.
02:46 And I think as a former Prime Minister, he has earned and deserves the opportunity to
02:52 decide his own timing in terms of when he moves on to the next stage of his life.
02:57 Speaking of Scott Morrison, he has warned that his successor, Anthony Albanese, should
03:02 not rush to Beijing later this year.
03:04 Do you agree with his position?
03:07 Well, Prime Minister Albanese has made the decision that he's indicated to accept the
03:12 invitation from China.
03:14 Is that a good thing?
03:15 That depends on the outcomes that his visit achieves.
03:19 And Mr Albanese presumably has made that decision believing that a visit will achieve outcomes
03:25 and there are many points of dispute still caused by China's actions against Australia.
03:32 The continued detention, unfairly, of Australians, the continued application of various trade
03:38 sanctions against Australia, as well as a number of other important but less targeted
03:44 concerns we would have in areas of human rights, in areas of military build-up in the region
03:49 and respect for international rules and norms.
03:52 I would expect all of these things to be raised by Prime Minister Albanese in his visit.
03:57 But crucially for Australia, any visit he undertakes needs to have outcomes and particularly
04:02 outcomes in seeing the continued ending of attempted coercive action against Australia
04:09 in the trade policy space by China, ending those wine tariffs, ending other trade sanctions
04:14 against Australia, honouring the terms of the free trade agreement that China voluntarily
04:18 entered into and making real progress in terms of fairer treatment for those detained Australians.
04:24 And that's what this trip will be measured against.
04:27 Prime Minister Albanese needs to be cautious to ensure that it is not a trip that allows
04:33 it to be used as any type of propaganda exercise.
04:37 He needs to make sure there is less of the ceremonial and much more of the working nature
04:42 because it will be judged on the outcomes that are achieved.
04:46 So it sounds like you're cautiously supportive of Mr Albanese going, so therefore is it sort
04:51 of unhelpful of Mr Morrison to put forward his views at a time when Australia really
04:56 is trying to strengthen it and improve the relationship it has with China?
05:02 Well, Scott, like any member of the Liberal and National Party, Party Room is free and
05:07 indeed encouraged to use the platform of our Party Room to express their opinions.
05:12 And I think, importantly, the remarks that have been attributed to him are not inconsistent
05:19 with the point I just made, which is that Prime Minister Albanese needs to be very careful
05:24 to ensure that any trip he undertakes is not used for propaganda-type purposes, does not
05:32 enable China itself to claim a victory, but instead achieves working, practical outcomes
05:38 for Australia.
05:40 And those particular outcomes need to see further removal of the coercive trade sanctions
05:45 China has applied on Australia and meaningful progress for the unfairly detained Australian
05:52 citizens who are in China at present.
05:54 So given what you've said then, would you rather maybe see the release of Chang Lei
05:57 before Mr Albanese went to China?
06:01 Well I would like to see the release of Chang Lei and Dr Yang Hengjun as soon as possible.
06:06 Would that be a stipulation on whether Mr Albanese goes or not?
06:11 There is always a question here and it's one that in terms of the briefings and analysis
06:16 and work that happens within government, I am not necessarily privy to, but a judgment
06:21 there as to whether the visit will speed up the outcome or whether you should make the
06:27 visit conditional upon the outcome occurring beforehand.
06:31 Now Prime Minister Albanese has obviously leant towards the former of those that he
06:35 thinks visiting presumably will speed up those outcomes.
06:39 He needs to be making sure his ministers, all aspects of the Australian government need
06:44 to be making sure they get firm commitments in terms of real meaningful progress so that
06:49 this visit actually has genuine outcomes to Australia's benefit, including for those detained
06:55 Australians, not just something that can be used as a propaganda tool in any way.
07:00 [BLANK_AUDIO]
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