Episode 43: Nicole Auerbach On Conference Realignment, The Future Of The NCAA, And The Barbie Movie

Barstool Sports

Mark Titus | The Mark Titus Show

Transcript

00:00:00 On today's episode of the Mark Titus Show,

00:00:02 Colorado has left the building.

00:00:04 They are going back home to the Big 12.

00:00:07 The CU buffs have taken,

00:00:09 they really haven't moved at all.

00:00:12 Every time I talk about conference realignment,

00:00:13 I just picture the school getting up and leaving.

00:00:16 The school, as it turns out, does not move.

00:00:18 It stays in the exact same location it was in,

00:00:20 but it's now in a new conference.

00:00:22 Colorado's gonna go to the Big 12.

00:00:25 Deion Sanders getting it done,

00:00:26 it takes over and immediately has,

00:00:29 it's incredible what he's done for Colorado football,

00:00:34 one of the worst football programs in the country

00:00:37 in terms of power conference football programs.

00:00:41 But there's buzz around the place now,

00:00:42 and Colorado has gone to the Big 12.

00:00:46 Another domino falling,

00:00:47 and now we're right back in the conference realignment,

00:00:50 carousel, whatever you wanna call it.

00:00:52 It's just a whirlwind of rumors

00:00:54 of some more real than others.

00:00:57 What are Oregon and Washington going to do?

00:01:00 What are Arizona and Arizona State going to do?

00:01:03 What is the Pac-9, I guess, is what we have left?

00:01:06 What's going on there?

00:01:08 Is it even going to be a conference in five years?

00:01:10 Are they gonna backfill with somebody?

00:01:12 There is so much going on with the conference real,

00:01:16 the dust is nowhere close to being settled, is all I know.

00:01:20 That's kind of fun when you wanna speculate.

00:01:23 It's not so much fun when you just wanna watch sports,

00:01:25 and you're like, just throw the teams out on the field.

00:01:27 Why the hell are we still talking

00:01:28 about all these teams jumping around?

00:01:30 But anyway, Nicole Auerbach of The Athletic

00:01:33 is in studio today to talk about all this.

00:01:36 She covers college football for The Athletic,

00:01:39 and not only covers college football,

00:01:41 but covers conference realignment,

00:01:42 is well-sourced with all these commissioners,

00:01:44 and ADs, and administrators, and all that sort of thing.

00:01:47 So she's a friend of mine as well,

00:01:49 and I thought having her on the show would be great

00:01:51 because that seems to be the news

00:01:53 in college sports right now.

00:01:54 And as she and I talked,

00:01:57 college basketball is just sort of along for the ride

00:02:01 with this stuff, which is, I don't know, not fun.

00:02:04 It's just not fun.

00:02:05 That's the way I would describe it.

00:02:06 It's not fun to be a fan of a sport

00:02:09 that has no say in any of this sort of thing.

00:02:11 And I don't mean to suggest that the Colorado,

00:02:15 Washington State basketball rivalry was sacred.

00:02:18 Now I'm devastated that it's gone away,

00:02:19 but it's less about Colorado jumping in the Big 12,

00:02:22 and more about this era we're in,

00:02:24 where there are rumors of UConn joining the Big 12,

00:02:27 which would actually be devastating,

00:02:29 and I probably would cry if that happened,

00:02:30 even though the Big 12 would be an absolute juggernaut

00:02:33 of a basketball, that's what,

00:02:35 if the Big 12 adds Arizona and UConn,

00:02:39 oh my God, can you imagine that basketball conference?

00:02:43 It would be insane.

00:02:44 It would be absolutely insane.

00:02:45 But UConn's gotta stay in the Big East.

00:02:48 Anyway, Nicole knows a lot more about this stuff than I do.

00:02:51 So I brought her on the show.

00:02:53 We talked for about an hour about all sorts of stuff,

00:02:55 conference realignment,

00:02:57 and I threw some scenarios at her

00:02:58 that may or may not be plausible,

00:03:01 and we talked those out.

00:03:03 It was a fun conversation,

00:03:04 even though she went to Michigan.

00:03:06 It was cool that she could keep up

00:03:07 with the conversation a little bit.

00:03:09 I tried to talk a little slower for her

00:03:10 so she could understand what I was saying.

00:03:13 And I think she did.

00:03:14 I think she picked up on it.

00:03:15 I think she did.

00:03:16 No, I'm kidding.

00:03:17 Nicole's the best.

00:03:18 And we had a fun conversation

00:03:20 about conference realignment.

00:03:21 So that is today's show.

00:03:22 Please enjoy.

00:03:24 All right, Nicole Auerbach of The Athletic is joining me.

00:03:26 She's a college football writer,

00:03:28 for those who don't know,

00:03:28 which these days, Nicole, I assume,

00:03:31 means you're more of a realignment expert.

00:03:34 - Yes.

00:03:35 - How much are you,

00:03:36 when you sit down to plan out what you're covering,

00:03:39 I guess you don't really plan on it,

00:03:41 but how much of your day is consumed

00:03:43 by realignment talk just in general?

00:03:46 How many people that want to reach out to you,

00:03:47 stories you're working on,

00:03:49 scoops you're getting,

00:03:49 all that sort of thing?

00:03:50 - Yeah, it's pretty much 90% realignment.

00:03:54 It's funny, if you had said,

00:03:55 "Hey, when's the last time you worked on

00:03:57 a straight football story?"

00:03:58 Might take a minute to remember.

00:04:00 And also, in season, I'm like,

00:04:02 "Oh, I can't wait until we get to football."

00:04:04 A realignment's probably gonna spill into it.

00:04:06 It probably isn't time for it.

00:04:08 We did a Big Ten Media Day preview pod.

00:04:11 I was with Ari Wasserman,

00:04:13 and we talked about the teams.

00:04:15 And it took a second to study up

00:04:17 and be like, "Okay, what does

00:04:19 "Ten States Too Deep look like?"

00:04:20 Because this has just been all NIL and realignment.

00:04:24 So, but yeah, these days, that's all the calls.

00:04:27 - Yeah, so I see the news Colorado's going to the Big 12,

00:04:30 back to the Big 12, we should say.

00:04:32 My immediate thought was,

00:04:34 "I gotta talk about this on the show.

00:04:35 "You're the first name I thought of,

00:04:36 "'cause you cover this stuff so much."

00:04:38 And I'm more of a basketball guy, as you know.

00:04:40 You're a football person.

00:04:42 You cover football, I don't know.

00:04:44 We don't need to put it in boxes,

00:04:45 but you know what I'm saying.

00:04:46 - I can be a football guy.

00:04:47 - Yeah, football guy.

00:04:49 (laughing)

00:04:51 And football drives all of this, obviously.

00:04:53 So those of us in the basketball world,

00:04:55 we're just kind of like,

00:04:56 it's a very weird position,

00:04:58 because unlike all the rest of the sports,

00:05:00 men's basketball makes money for these schools.

00:05:03 And yet, men's basketball is the one sport

00:05:05 that makes money, but also has no say, pretty much,

00:05:08 in what's going on with the realignment.

00:05:10 So it's very bizarre.

00:05:12 Which is to say, I'm following it closely,

00:05:14 but you're probably more in the weeds than me.

00:05:15 So I thought, I gotta get Nicole on the show

00:05:17 to kind of explain to my listeners what the hell's going on.

00:05:20 'Cause a lot of the reaction with basketball stuff

00:05:22 is like, a lot of the feeling with basketball

00:05:25 is reactionary.

00:05:26 It's like, what the hell just happened?

00:05:28 Like, we don't really,

00:05:29 the basketball people are too stupid to see

00:05:32 what's on the horizon and the pieces that are moving,

00:05:34 'cause we don't think of things in football terms.

00:05:37 So I reached out to you, and I was like,

00:05:38 Nicole, do you wanna come on the show and talk realignment?

00:05:40 (laughing)

00:05:41 I think one of the first things you said was like,

00:05:42 "I hate realignment so much."

00:05:44 (laughing)

00:05:45 And I was like, oh no.

00:05:46 So we don't need to spend too much time,

00:05:48 but I do want, like, I want more clarity,

00:05:51 both for myself and the listeners,

00:05:53 because Colorado, going back to the Big 12,

00:05:57 both feels like, it feels like it might be the death

00:05:59 of the pack eight, nine, how many are left at this point?

00:06:02 - Nine, nine right now, yep.

00:06:04 - But as you pointed out right before we jumped on air,

00:06:06 Dan Lanning, the Oregon football coach,

00:06:08 was like, "This doesn't matter at all,

00:06:10 "because Colorado wins nothing."

00:06:11 So like, does this really, so I guess we'll start there,

00:06:14 like with the pack nine, the pack 12,

00:06:16 whatever they're calling it, is it dead?

00:06:19 Do we feel like as of right this second,

00:06:22 as the calendar's turning to August 2023,

00:06:24 that the pack 12, as we know it, is officially dead,

00:06:26 or is there a way that they can salvage this thing?

00:06:28 - Okay, so when I talk about these things,

00:06:30 always need to timestamp it.

00:06:31 - Yeah, exactly, yeah.

00:06:32 - Because it's wrong by the time someone is listening.

00:06:34 So it's like late in the day, July 31st,

00:06:37 July the day, right? - July 31st.

00:06:39 It is three on the dot, central time.

00:06:41 - Three on the dot, central time.

00:06:42 So, like the pack 12 has a meeting on the first,

00:06:46 we'll see, right, about like, you know,

00:06:49 George Klaffkoff's supposed to present a deal.

00:06:52 So we'll see, actually, hopefully soon,

00:06:55 if it stabilizes or not.

00:06:56 I mean, there was all this like,

00:06:58 this power vacuum, information vacuum,

00:07:02 basically since like, last fall,

00:07:04 and the pack 12 was doing a media deal,

00:07:06 doing a media deal, maybe it'd be in January,

00:07:08 then it would be, well, maybe by their conference tournament

00:07:10 and then media day is now here we are and it's August.

00:07:14 But, you know, there was always a hope that,

00:07:17 well, whatever the deal was, it would be fine.

00:07:19 It would be comparable to big 12,

00:07:20 wouldn't be enough to make someone jump

00:07:22 and it would keep people together

00:07:23 'cause they'd be willing to sign their own grant of rights

00:07:26 for let's say a five or six year deal.

00:07:28 And then we all kind of move on and exist for a few years

00:07:31 until the big 10's next deal is up or something

00:07:34 and this gets going again.

00:07:35 Colorado like jumped, right?

00:07:37 They went early, they didn't wait for the deal

00:07:39 to formally be presented.

00:07:42 And the way that they justified that was they just said,

00:07:44 it's more stable, we know what they're doing.

00:07:45 They also were in that league for a long time.

00:07:47 Like that one fundamentally didn't feel as bad

00:07:50 as some of the other moves that have happened

00:07:51 that just like really reek of chasing money

00:07:55 or chasing just, you know,

00:07:57 the biggest possible league you could join.

00:08:00 Dion also like wanted to be back in a footprint

00:08:02 that had Texas and all these different,

00:08:05 kind of crazy to have a coach who has not coached a game

00:08:07 have influence in a conference decision like this.

00:08:12 But the reaction has been exactly one of the two, right?

00:08:16 So Dan Lanning's comments I think are very interesting

00:08:18 and telling because I already think a lot of the coaches

00:08:21 in this league were annoyed about everything around Dion,

00:08:25 the way that he flipped over his roster,

00:08:27 the amount of attention they were getting.

00:08:29 So I always kind of thought that people might run up

00:08:32 the score on Colorado if that opportunity presented itself.

00:08:35 - Well, guess who's playing Colorado

00:08:37 in the first month of the season, Oregon.

00:08:39 So I think we can safely expect that.

00:08:41 But I think that was one of the things

00:08:43 that I thought about too was,

00:08:45 of all Power Five programs to add,

00:08:47 I mean, historically in football, men's basketball,

00:08:51 like they've been among the worst in recent years.

00:08:54 But the Big 12 has done a really good job

00:08:56 of selling us as a big win for them.

00:08:58 And part of that is because they're trying to destabilize

00:09:02 the Pac-12.

00:09:03 - Yeah, so is the selling point, I guess, just nostalgia?

00:09:07 Is it like, 'cause I fell into it too.

00:09:09 I was like, "Oh my God, Colorado back in the Big 12."

00:09:12 And then I sat on it for a while.

00:09:14 I was like, "Doesn't Colorado stink?"

00:09:15 I mean, Dion does.

00:09:17 It's wild 'cause I really think if Dion stepped down today

00:09:20 and was like, "I'm done, thank you so much

00:09:23 to Boulder and everybody.

00:09:24 It was great, my time here, the four months

00:09:27 I was the head coach.

00:09:29 God bless you all, but I'm moving on."

00:09:31 I think Colorado fans would be like,

00:09:33 "He's one of the best coaches we've ever had

00:09:34 in the history of the program."

00:09:36 - All of the positive.

00:09:37 - Yeah, absolutely.

00:09:39 The hype, they moved to the Big 12,

00:09:41 all the things that he's knocked it out of the park

00:09:44 and he hasn't even coached a game.

00:09:45 Now, of course, you start stacking up Ls,

00:09:47 the conversation's different, but it's just crazy,

00:09:50 to your point, the hype around Dion and all of that,

00:09:53 it is working.

00:09:54 - But in the hype, to me, right your mark,

00:09:58 Big 12 commissioner ran this as a campaign

00:10:01 against the Pac-12.

00:10:03 You never hear him talking about the Big 10

00:10:05 and the SEC this, or even the ACC, right?

00:10:07 It's their positioning and they presenting themselves

00:10:11 as stronger than the Pac-12.

00:10:12 So when he talks about wanting to go West,

00:10:14 when he talks about believing that they can get

00:10:16 Power Five schools, we all know what he's talking about.

00:10:18 And so I think plucking a Power Five school from another,

00:10:21 someone that was in your league previously,

00:10:23 that does have the flashy coach and things of that nature,

00:10:27 but they were also the most receptive.

00:10:28 Like early on, we were talking about the four corner schools

00:10:32 so that's Colorado, Utah, Arizona, Arizona State.

00:10:34 Well, Colorado was the most receptive and interested.

00:10:36 And like my colleague, Max Olson, always puts it this way,

00:10:39 like right your mark, he flirts, flirts with these schools.

00:10:41 And they flirted back.

00:10:43 And then obviously they were ready to like,

00:10:45 take the rose and go forward.

00:10:47 But that was also part of the reason that like Colorado

00:10:49 became this like big win for them is because for months now,

00:10:53 they were the most likely candidate to actually say yes.

00:10:55 And why is, my read on it, and you can shoot this down

00:11:00 if it's completely not accurate, but it feels to me

00:11:03 like Oregon and Washington, who seem to sort of be

00:11:06 a package deal the way I'm reading the tea leaves.

00:11:09 But it seems like they, them, and I don't know if the

00:11:13 Arizona schools, whatever, but it feels like maybe

00:11:15 some of these other Pac-12 schools are kind of waiting

00:11:17 for the Big Ten.

00:11:18 They're just like, we don't want to accept the Big,

00:11:21 we would love to flirt with you, but we're holding out

00:11:23 the, there's gonna be a spot open in the Big Ten.

00:11:26 And the Big Ten's like, we're not really interested

00:11:28 right now.

00:11:29 - Right.

00:11:30 - Is that what seems to be going on?

00:11:31 Like the Big Ten's like--

00:11:32 - I think that's probably a fair read on the situation.

00:11:33 I also think that, you know, there's a rich history

00:11:36 in the Pac-12, Pac-10, whatever you want to call it,

00:11:39 Pac-9 right now.

00:11:41 And there's also inertia.

00:11:42 And so like, you don't try to leave,

00:11:44 you don't try to uproot things.

00:11:45 And those schools in the Pac-12, you know,

00:11:48 you're a Big Ten guy, I'm a Big Ten guy too.

00:11:51 And like, we hear so much of like the arrogance

00:11:54 about like the schools and like the academics.

00:11:56 - Yeah, yeah.

00:11:57 - And like, right, and the AAU status

00:11:58 and like all of these things.

00:12:00 Well, the academic schools in the Pac-12 are also great.

00:12:03 - Yes.

00:12:04 - And so there is something for like Arizona State,

00:12:06 who's, you know, rising up the ranks in that,

00:12:08 to be associated with Cal and Stanford and those things.

00:12:10 - Sure.

00:12:11 - So like, there is a lot of like-mindedness

00:12:14 and a lot of the reasons that like conferences

00:12:15 do exist in that.

00:12:17 But yeah, I mean, do you, if you're Oregon or Washington,

00:12:21 and again, let's say the Pac-12 is fine,

00:12:22 stabilizes, gets a deal, maybe they backfill

00:12:25 with San Diego State or SMU or whatever it needs to be.

00:12:28 If you're Oregon, why wouldn't you just stay

00:12:30 and win the Pac-12 and go to the playoff every year, right?

00:12:33 Instead of uprooting to go to the Big 12.

00:12:36 And then yes, maybe you're hoping down the line,

00:12:38 the Big Ten does expand and calls you.

00:12:40 - Yeah, it's crazy.

00:12:43 I guess Colorado not being like one of the OG Pac,

00:12:46 you know, it does make sense.

00:12:47 They're going back home, but then also like sort of

00:12:49 the respect that you just said that like these other schools

00:12:51 have for the entity that is the Pac-8, 10, 12.

00:12:55 Maybe Colorado doesn't feel that as much

00:12:57 because they were kind of, they've been there for 10 years,

00:12:59 basically, anyway, so they're just like, whatever.

00:13:01 I'm just fascinated that, it just blows my mind.

00:13:06 Having lived on the West Coast for the last four

00:13:08 or five years, however long I was out in Los Angeles.

00:13:11 Saturday morning, college football's on my television.

00:13:15 I want to go hit up a bar.

00:13:19 Just how difficult it was to get people to watch,

00:13:21 college basketball especially.

00:13:22 And I thought like with UCLA and USC,

00:13:25 living in a city with those two schools,

00:13:26 I thought this would be very simple

00:13:29 to find college sports on televisions and bars.

00:13:32 That was not the case.

00:13:32 So like I sit here and look at the current state

00:13:36 of the Pac-9, and I think how in God's name

00:13:39 did a conference that had two Los Angeles schools,

00:13:43 you have a footprint in Phoenix with, you know,

00:13:46 Arizona State, the Phoenix market,

00:13:48 you got the Denver market with Colorado,

00:13:50 you got the Seattle market,

00:13:51 I guess the Portland market technically,

00:13:53 I guess Oregon being close enough to,

00:13:55 I'd have to check my geography a little bit more,

00:13:57 but like Portland or Oregon.

00:13:58 Yeah, you flat.

00:13:59 Oregon State is like, yeah,

00:14:00 just kind of blends all together.

00:14:01 But the point is like, outside of Vegas,

00:14:03 basically every West, the Bay Area,

00:14:05 which I just skipped over, how does a conference

00:14:08 that has all of these massive West Coast footprints

00:14:11 get to this point where like you can't even get a TV deal?

00:14:14 Is it just, is it as simple as what I think

00:14:16 a lot of East Coast people think,

00:14:18 which is that, do people on the West Coast just not care?

00:14:21 Is that like ultimately what it comes down to?

00:14:22 Because to have like that many massive media markets

00:14:25 involved in this stuff, and they're still like struggling

00:14:28 to put a deal together, and just like,

00:14:29 we're sitting here today like unsure if even in five years

00:14:32 there will be a Pac-12 is pretty freaking wild to me.

00:14:35 - So I think the first part,

00:14:37 which is kind of like a backwards way

00:14:39 of answering your question is,

00:14:41 the timing for the Pac-12 to go through this was terrible.

00:14:45 This was part of the, like looking hindsight is 2020,

00:14:49 you know, Brett Uremark did like read the tea leaves

00:14:51 probably on this, but he also jumped ahead

00:14:53 and the Big 12 got their extension done

00:14:55 before everything really got bad.

00:14:58 And before all of the layoffs

00:14:59 and all of these media companies,

00:15:01 including Apple and Amazon and all these places

00:15:03 that people thought would be around and would be interested

00:15:07 and could drive up the value and the prices

00:15:09 for different things.

00:15:10 So it's definitely not ideal.

00:15:12 And I mean, you could still end up with a deal,

00:15:14 like ESPN is still going to do media rights deals,

00:15:17 but they were going through massive layoffs.

00:15:19 And so that impacts deals, negotiations, processes,

00:15:23 and these Amazon and Apple's from what I've been told,

00:15:26 like it just goes a lot slower.

00:15:28 They're not as comfortable.

00:15:29 They don't know what they're doing as much.

00:15:30 So it's just a different process.

00:15:32 But to your original point,

00:15:34 I do think that is part of the problem.

00:15:35 Like I remember, like I live in Chicago now,

00:15:39 but I was in DC, I was in New York, I grew up in New Jersey.

00:15:43 And when I lived in those places,

00:15:45 I did not stay up to watch a Pac-12 games.

00:15:50 I was not as familiar with UCLA and Oregon basketball

00:15:53 when they started to rise under Dana Altman.

00:15:55 And like, I just didn't make it a priority.

00:15:57 And I've had this conversation so many times

00:15:59 with like Gonzaga folks,

00:16:01 because it's part of the reason they do their non-conference

00:16:04 scheduling the way they do so that people can see them.

00:16:07 But it's a real thing.

00:16:09 East Coast bias is a real thing.

00:16:11 And I also think, and you could speak to this more

00:16:13 having lived in LA especially,

00:16:15 the culture around like going to games

00:16:17 or planning around watching a game is very different.

00:16:20 - It's crazy.

00:16:21 I went to my first UCLA basketball game

00:16:24 and I said I will never make jokes about how fans don't.

00:16:27 'Cause yeah, being in the Midwest,

00:16:30 I have such an unbelievable reverence

00:16:33 for UCLA basketball, the brand.

00:16:34 And Pauly Pavilion is one of the great arenas in our sport.

00:16:38 And everything about it would drive me nuts

00:16:40 when I'd watch UCLA games and--

00:16:42 - It'd be empty.

00:16:44 - The Alonzo ball team, it was like so freaking fun.

00:16:46 And the place would be empty.

00:16:47 And I'm like, what is wrong with these people?

00:16:49 And then I moved to Los Angeles.

00:16:50 I went to my first UCLA basketball game

00:16:52 and I was like, nevermind.

00:16:53 And the reason I was nevermind was sitting in the traffic,

00:16:57 just the, really the traffic.

00:17:00 It was basically just the traffic.

00:17:01 But the games are typically, to get a good TV slot,

00:17:04 if you have a team that's ranked number one in the country

00:17:06 or number five, whatever,

00:17:08 you're playing at 6 p.m. maybe,

00:17:11 'cause it's a 9 Eastern tip-off,

00:17:14 which is super inconvenient for people

00:17:16 if they have real jobs.

00:17:17 So the whole thing was like, I suddenly get it now.

00:17:22 I just don't know if you have a world

00:17:25 where the East Coast doesn't care about the West Coast,

00:17:27 and now the West Coast, it's like,

00:17:31 we're unsure about how much the West Coast

00:17:32 even cares about the West Coast.

00:17:34 It's just crazy to me.

00:17:35 I guess college sports on the West Coast as a whole,

00:17:38 like if the Pac-9 dissolves,

00:17:40 which that's the assumption I'm working with, by the way,

00:17:43 is like, I just think, I see the writing on the wall.

00:17:46 I think Oregon and Washington are gonna jump

00:17:49 at some point somewhere.

00:17:51 Arizona and Arizona State won out.

00:17:52 Like, it just feels like too many teams won out

00:17:54 and are like, flirting too much.

00:17:56 So I'll say that.

00:17:58 You don't have to agree with it or anything,

00:17:59 but that's just my read on the whole thing.

00:18:01 If that in fact happens,

00:18:02 like in five, 10 years, college sports on the West Coast,

00:18:07 do you think it's in a more healthy spot?

00:18:09 Do you think the odds of being able to find

00:18:11 a college football game on a bar on a Saturday

00:18:14 will be better or worse now that UCLA and UFC

00:18:16 are playing in a quote-unquote real college sports conference

00:18:20 and maybe you get Washington and Oregon also.

00:18:25 Will there be more?

00:18:26 And maybe, and I should say, by the way,

00:18:28 for those of you who live in like Eugene,

00:18:31 who are pulling your hair out and you're like,

00:18:32 in Eugene, we don't have this problem.

00:18:33 That's an LA problem.

00:18:34 This might be an LA problem.

00:18:35 Everything I'm saying might just be like,

00:18:37 people in LA don't care,

00:18:38 but like other people in the West Coast.

00:18:40 Yeah, they probably have the same deal.

00:18:41 But do you, yeah, like--

00:18:42 - It's just, what you're saying is like,

00:18:43 it's just different than like living in Alabama or Georgia.

00:18:47 Like even in Atlanta, if you live in Atlanta,

00:18:50 it's a college football area.

00:18:51 The Falcons fandom is the hot and cold one, right?

00:18:54 Like there's just different places and different,

00:18:56 like I grew up in New Jersey, pro sports.

00:18:59 Rutgers was really, really good.

00:19:01 The Ray Rice team, the Mike Teal team.

00:19:03 We didn't go to a game.

00:19:04 We watched, we actually did schedule a couple nights

00:19:06 and watched like them play West Virginia and stuff.

00:19:08 But we did not think to go 20 minutes down the road

00:19:11 to the game 'cause that just wasn't part

00:19:12 of the culture there.

00:19:13 But here's another thing.

00:19:14 So you're saying like, okay, well,

00:19:16 maybe people will watch USC and UCLA

00:19:18 because they'll be on Fox and they'll be like on NBC

00:19:21 and CBS, like that deal, right?

00:19:23 Part of the thing was it'll be the easiest way,

00:19:25 the most amount of viewers.

00:19:26 But part of the reason that like,

00:19:28 if you're ESPN or whoever, you want a Pac-12 contract

00:19:31 is to fill the late night slots.

00:19:33 Then you have to play the late night slots

00:19:35 and people on the West Coast would prefer

00:19:37 to go to games earlier.

00:19:37 They don't wanna do the night game thing

00:19:39 that you can easily sell to LSU fans.

00:19:42 Like that they embrace that and that's part

00:19:44 of what they want out of college sports.

00:19:46 So that's where like, this is such a regional sport

00:19:50 and sports world and it's so hard

00:19:52 because these things are not universal.

00:19:54 Like it doesn't, what works here doesn't work there.

00:19:55 - And the regional part, obviously,

00:19:58 as has been pointed out 10 million times,

00:20:00 like the regional part going away,

00:20:01 I think is what makes this round of realignment

00:20:05 so visceral to people.

00:20:09 Like I think, 'cause like, it is kind of weird

00:20:11 that college fans are losing their minds

00:20:14 about realignment when this has been constant

00:20:16 and this, in college sports,

00:20:18 there's been teams jumping all over.

00:20:19 I mean, I grew up, it's funny 'cause I noticed this

00:20:22 about myself, I'm like, I can't believe the Big 10

00:20:24 is adding all these teams and this is crazy.

00:20:27 Like, can't we just go back to the Big 10 I know,

00:20:29 which is 11 teams?

00:20:30 (laughing)

00:20:32 That was the Big 10 I grew up with, it was 11 teams,

00:20:34 which then you hear--

00:20:35 - The original number, was there to change it.

00:20:37 - Yeah, you hear yourself say that out loud

00:20:39 and you're like, wait a second.

00:20:40 I guess that, 'cause like when Penn State joined the Big 10,

00:20:43 like, so the point is like, this has been going on forever,

00:20:46 but for some reason, like this round,

00:20:48 and I classify this round as I'm sure you do,

00:20:52 which is Texas and Oklahoma jumping in the SEC

00:20:54 and they kind of started all this.

00:20:54 - And now we're in like year three of this.

00:20:57 - This round feels so much more visceral

00:20:59 where like people are just like, this is fucking ridiculous,

00:21:02 the money grab, the, you know,

00:21:04 even though it's been going on forever.

00:21:06 And I think, would you agree that it's because

00:21:08 of the regional part of it is like,

00:21:10 we're all fine with like expansion,

00:21:11 Arkansas going to the SEC or Missouri going to the SEC.

00:21:14 Like that all makes sense in our head

00:21:16 because you can still see it on a map.

00:21:18 And even like Texas and Oklahoma, when it was announced,

00:21:20 I was like, I guess that sort of makes sense, you know,

00:21:22 it's like close enough there on the map.

00:21:24 But then USC, UCLA just like opened these floodgates

00:21:28 where you're like, oh, okay, so like now

00:21:29 there's no such thing as regional anything anymore.

00:21:32 It's just like a free for all out there.

00:21:35 Is that how you feel?

00:21:36 Like, do you feel like, first of all,

00:21:38 do you feel like there's more of like a intense reaction

00:21:40 this time around? - There is.

00:21:41 - Yeah. - I do.

00:21:42 - And is that probably why?

00:21:43 - Yeah, I think people have been,

00:21:46 I think because it was also coupled with NIL,

00:21:50 also coupled with you have all these lawsuits,

00:21:53 we have to talk about the Supreme Court,

00:21:55 you have to talk about all these other things

00:21:56 that are happening, the transfer portals loosen.

00:21:59 - And it just feels like a lot will change.

00:21:59 - A lot is happening at one thing, at one time.

00:22:02 And it is all change.

00:22:04 And so like a lot of the purists,

00:22:05 even if you like just wanted the rivals

00:22:07 and like you actually support the players

00:22:09 putting some money in their pocket

00:22:10 or being able to transfer because coaches transfer,

00:22:13 there's still a lot of people

00:22:14 who don't like any of this stuff.

00:22:15 - Yeah. - Who just have this reaction

00:22:16 to like how it used to be. - Yeah, right, right.

00:22:18 - They want college football to be like 1980 forever.

00:22:21 And like those people do exist.

00:22:23 But I even think that it's just all of it

00:22:25 happening at one time.

00:22:26 And it's just so constant.

00:22:27 And then you see, wow, this conference

00:22:30 that used to be Midwest, like used to think Midwest

00:22:33 when you thought the Big 10.

00:22:34 - Right. - And then, okay,

00:22:35 well, we get this week about USC and UCLA

00:22:38 is like the logistics, like how they're,

00:22:40 what are they thinking about?

00:22:41 What are they talking about?

00:22:42 And how are they having the Big 10 try to help them limit,

00:22:46 they know the trips are gonna happen.

00:22:48 They actually said it's about the same number of trips

00:22:50 as it would have been, but they're just longer,

00:22:52 longer distances. - Yeah.

00:22:53 - So what do you do like, you know,

00:22:55 for sleep and nutrition?

00:22:56 Do you stay on the West Coast time?

00:22:57 Do you stay on East Coast time?

00:22:58 Like how do you do this?

00:23:00 You bring more trainers or athletic academic advisors

00:23:03 onto trips.

00:23:04 Like how do you do all this stuff?

00:23:05 And like one of the things that people reacted to was,

00:23:08 I give them an example of like, okay,

00:23:09 maybe you have UCLA, you know, soccer and USC volleyball.

00:23:14 And you pair them as travel buddies for a weekend.

00:23:17 And they do Northwestern and Illinois.

00:23:20 But they play at Illinois first,

00:23:22 and they can bus and then they finish at Northwestern.

00:23:24 So then they could take a flight out of O'Hare.

00:23:26 So like, you're gonna have to think about

00:23:27 all these puzzle pieces.

00:23:28 And everyone was just like, what?

00:23:30 Like, how is this like, what college sports is?

00:23:33 - Right, yeah. - What it's supposed to be?

00:23:35 But that's just people making the best out

00:23:36 of where it is now. - Yeah.

00:23:38 - Right, because it's evolved into this thing

00:23:39 where geography doesn't matter.

00:23:41 And the money I think too, everyone has seen the payouts

00:23:46 and they see what the differences are.

00:23:47 Like I have been doing radio all off season.

00:23:51 And I don't think we've got a whole show

00:23:52 without talking about the Pac-12 meteorite steal,

00:23:54 which like five years ago, no one paid attention

00:23:56 to meteorite steals. - Nobody cared, yeah.

00:23:57 - 10 years ago, no.

00:23:59 But it's like everyone is so worried about falling behind,

00:24:02 being left out, being the last one standing,

00:24:05 and now not making enough money.

00:24:07 And then, oh, everyone's gonna steal your coaches

00:24:09 and it'll funnel into NIL collectives

00:24:11 and they'll get the best players.

00:24:13 I don't think that that stuff was part

00:24:15 of the college sports fan experience 10 years ago.

00:24:19 - Yeah, I feel that too.

00:24:21 It's just like I never thought that when I decided

00:24:25 I just wanted to talk shit about college basketball

00:24:27 for a living, I never thought that I would be like,

00:24:29 all right, so if Kansas, if the Big Ten gets Kansas somehow,

00:24:33 and that leaves us, this is what the job has become.

00:24:36 - You're also a grant of rights expert.

00:24:38 - I'm a grant of rights, yes.

00:24:39 I am a grant of rights expert.

00:24:40 I'm an expert.

00:24:41 Let's talk about the ACC a little bit.

00:24:42 - Sure.

00:24:43 - Let's talk about the experience of grants of rights.

00:24:48 - What did they call themselves, the Magnificent Seven?

00:24:50 Terrible nickname.

00:24:51 Who came up with this nickname?

00:24:53 How do I--

00:24:54 - They did not, they did not.

00:24:55 That was Brett McMurphy made up the nickname.

00:24:56 - Brett McMurphy, all right.

00:24:58 Brett McMurphy.

00:24:58 - But he put it in quotes, so people thought

00:25:00 that that was someone had named themselves that.

00:25:04 But I was texting people, I was like,

00:25:05 did you seriously call yourselves this?

00:25:07 They were like, no.

00:25:08 - I definitely read that, thought that that was,

00:25:10 that these guys got together,

00:25:12 and one of the first items on the agenda was like,

00:25:14 we need a name, we need a name for ourselves.

00:25:16 - No, no.

00:25:18 - And someone stood up and said Magnificent Seven.

00:25:20 But the seven schools that were reported to be like,

00:25:23 kicking the tires on figuring out

00:25:25 how to get the hell out of the ACC,

00:25:27 nothing's really come of that yet.

00:25:30 What, explain to the people,

00:25:33 what exactly is the grant of rights?

00:25:34 Because it feels like we've gone from like,

00:25:37 this is ironclad, shut it down, this can't happen.

00:25:40 I know people want to fantasize about Clemson

00:25:42 or Florida State jumping to the SEC maybe, whatever.

00:25:46 But that can't happen because these grant of rights,

00:25:48 it just simply can't happen.

00:25:50 And then there was like a wave of people that were like,

00:25:52 now hang on a second, you get lawyers involved,

00:25:55 anything could happen, anything could happen.

00:25:57 But then nothing has happened.

00:25:59 So like, where on the, I guess just like the,

00:26:02 I'm not asking like, do we think that schools

00:26:05 are going to jump around, I'm specifically just asking

00:26:07 about the grant of rights, like is it a possibility at all?

00:26:10 Are we wasting our time?

00:26:11 Guys like me that are ill-informed being like,

00:26:14 I want Carolina in the Big Ten.

00:26:15 Is like even saying that a waste of time right now?

00:26:18 - I don't think so.

00:26:20 I mean, I think everyone can have these conversations

00:26:22 'cause like all the administrators I talk to

00:26:24 have those conversations, the commissioners, ADs,

00:26:26 like everyone says the same stuff anyway.

00:26:28 But the point that I always go back to

00:26:31 from someone who is in one of those seven schools told me

00:26:35 was hey, if this was easy or straightforward to get out of,

00:26:38 we would have all done it the day after Texas and OU

00:26:41 went to the SEC. - Oh, wow.

00:26:43 - So we're two plus years beyond that

00:26:46 and no one's challenged it yet.

00:26:48 So everyone's got their lawyers looking at it.

00:26:50 Basically what a grant of rights does

00:26:52 is it tethers everyone to each other.

00:26:54 So you sign a media rights deal,

00:26:56 but then you're also essentially signing,

00:26:58 this was all after Maryland left, right?

00:27:00 So everyone's trying to figure out like how do you stop

00:27:02 somebody from blindsiding you and how do you make it

00:27:04 like really expensive if someone tries to leave,

00:27:07 but also hard to leave.

00:27:09 So the idea is okay, well, Mark, you and I,

00:27:13 we are in a league, we just sold our rights to Apple

00:27:18 and we signed a five year deal.

00:27:19 Well then also during that five year deal

00:27:21 we signed a grant of rights

00:27:22 that goes the length of that contract,

00:27:24 which means that if we leave,

00:27:27 our conference NM has the rights to our home games.

00:27:33 So we could leave and we could pay an exit fee,

00:27:37 but then no one could see our games.

00:27:39 - Or do you have to pay then,

00:27:41 like you would have to pay, so yeah, say that.

00:27:44 So if Clemson, I'll throw out the hypothetical

00:27:48 so you don't get in trouble.

00:27:49 If Clemson leaves today and joins the SEC

00:27:52 and they're like we wanna play SEC football next year.

00:27:55 - Yeah, if they did not deal with their grant of rights,

00:27:57 so this is why it's hard to get a dollar figure.

00:28:02 So the difference was an exit fee,

00:28:04 which is like what you would owe the ACC.

00:28:07 - Yeah.

00:28:07 - But then there's the grant of rights,

00:28:09 so until 2036 all those schools' rights

00:28:12 are owned by the ACC.

00:28:14 So Clemson home games, the ACC owns Clemson home games.

00:28:17 - So when they play at home,

00:28:18 all the money would go to the ACC still.

00:28:19 So they would basically still,

00:28:21 or the ACC-- - Or no one would see it.

00:28:22 - No one, 'cause the ACC would have to do

00:28:24 the rights for the TV. - Right, so--

00:28:26 - Got you. - Or like just think

00:28:26 of it that way. - So just no one

00:28:27 would see it, yeah, okay, that makes more sense.

00:28:28 - So you have to buy your rights back.

00:28:30 - I got you.

00:28:31 - So that you could be like, hey, we're playing Florida

00:28:33 and you can watch it this way.

00:28:35 - So when Maryland left, all the ACC schools were like,

00:28:37 we have a genius idea to make sure no one else leaves.

00:28:41 - Well, a lot of these schools--

00:28:41 - But then now they all wanna leave.

00:28:42 - A lot of these schools have this stuff, yeah, right.

00:28:43 - And now they all wanna leave, they're like, fuck.

00:28:45 - Right, and the ACC is particularly,

00:28:47 like the reason we talk about it so much

00:28:48 is because they had the long-term deal.

00:28:50 - Yeah. - They signed a 20-year deal

00:28:52 in 2016, so that's a really long time.

00:28:55 Like right now they're fine,

00:28:56 they're actually in pretty good shape.

00:28:58 But everyone's seen all the charts

00:29:00 and everyone else's numbers go up.

00:29:02 And then you have Florida State,

00:29:04 and their athletic director gets in front of his board

00:29:06 and says, we can't fall $30 million behind Florida

00:29:09 every year, over and over and over again.

00:29:12 So that's where you have this.

00:29:13 So there's like a couple of different things

00:29:15 that are different with the ACC teams,

00:29:16 like at FSU or at Clemson.

00:29:19 They can give the league notice to leave.

00:29:22 Like they can say, hey, ACC, we're out.

00:29:24 So that's why if you hear an August 15th deadline,

00:29:26 that's because FSU would need to tell the ACC

00:29:29 that they were leaving by August 15th

00:29:31 to be able to be somewhere else next year.

00:29:34 But that's not to say, then they would need to figure out

00:29:36 what do they owe the exit fee,

00:29:37 and then maybe you have to go to court or something

00:29:39 to figure out what you owe for the grant of rights,

00:29:41 to get your rights back.

00:29:42 So it's incredibly expensive.

00:29:44 But the bet would be, we would make more money

00:29:48 in the new league that this would be worth it

00:29:51 because we can't fall behind this much.

00:29:53 - Right, and the seven, my understanding was that

00:29:57 the whole seven came about because if seven schools

00:30:00 were to jump all at the same time,

00:30:03 the grant of rights goes away?

00:30:04 - I think it's to be eight.

00:30:05 - It has to be eight?

00:30:07 - But pretty short.

00:30:08 So again, this depends on who you talk to,

00:30:09 like exactly how this would have to work.

00:30:11 But if enough of the league broke out

00:30:14 that it was no longer a league,

00:30:16 and I think that's over 50%,

00:30:17 which is why it would be eight versus seven,

00:30:20 then yes, there wouldn't be the grant of rights payment.

00:30:22 So that would be the thinking, but that's a big ask still.

00:30:27 You're still, we know Florida State and Clemson,

00:30:30 they've been loud about we deserve more money,

00:30:32 and they would be betting on themselves.

00:30:35 But if you're like North Carolina State or Virginia Tech,

00:30:40 are you sure that there's a spot?

00:30:42 That's the hard part.

00:30:43 Or even if someone goes first and says,

00:30:46 "Okay, we're leaving the ACC,"

00:30:47 you're still waiting for seven other people

00:30:49 to say, "Yeah, me too."

00:30:51 That's just a lot.

00:30:52 So it's risky.

00:30:53 - If I was one of those eight, I would not jump.

00:30:56 I would tell everybody, "One, two, three, jump."

00:30:58 Let everyone else, let like seven jump.

00:31:01 Then all seven of those schools are fucked,

00:31:02 and now they're not on television,

00:31:03 and they get no resources, and they're out of the ACC.

00:31:05 And then I think this is how Miami comes back, Nicole.

00:31:08 I think this is Miami-- - Just be the king of ACC?

00:31:10 - Miami's like team number eight that's like,

00:31:12 "Yes, we will jump with you guys.

00:31:14 "Everybody ready?

00:31:15 "Let's jump.

00:31:16 "Let all the other seven jump.

00:31:17 "Get Clemson out of the way.

00:31:19 "Get Florida State out of the way."

00:31:20 - They can't see them.

00:31:21 - Yeah, they'd be like, "Whatever."

00:31:23 - They're gonna pay a lot of money,

00:31:24 and then you get to be the king of the ACC.

00:31:26 - Yes, and now you're the best,

00:31:27 and now you run the ACC.

00:31:28 It's a foolproof plan.

00:31:29 - That's what I'm saying.

00:31:31 I think I understand why people talk about

00:31:33 where the ACC schools could fit,

00:31:35 because again, you talk to people in the Big Ten

00:31:37 or the ACC, and they're like, "This would be a good fit.

00:31:39 "This would be the type of school that we would want."

00:31:41 Or with the Big Ten, and everyone's talking

00:31:45 about Oregon-Washington all last year.

00:31:47 Well, maybe no, and you wait and see

00:31:48 what happens with the ACC.

00:31:50 These are conversations that people have.

00:31:52 But my thinking on the grant of rights is,

00:31:55 again, a lot of lawyers have looked at this thing,

00:31:57 and until someone challenges it,

00:31:59 I just consider them unavailable.

00:32:01 - Yeah.

00:32:02 - But if someone challenges it,

00:32:02 and we see a dollar figure, we see how this works,

00:32:05 then it's a different world.

00:32:06 - And yeah, I'm so curious who's gonna be the one

00:32:08 to challenge it.

00:32:09 Like, who, how that's gonna, yeah.

00:32:11 Is that gonna have to be a group effort,

00:32:13 or is there just going to be one, is it Clemson?

00:32:17 Or, I keep going back to Clemson and Florida State,

00:32:19 'cause they seem to be the two that

00:32:21 are the best football programs right now.

00:32:24 Yeah, I don't know.

00:32:24 - Well, Florida State's got a board meeting this week,

00:32:27 so we might have a--

00:32:28 - Yeah, I like it.

00:32:29 - We might get that announcement soon.

00:32:30 - We might get some information.

00:32:32 - We might learn a lot there.

00:32:35 What do you personally,

00:32:38 because as much as I hate realignment as well,

00:32:41 like I said, I keep saying I wanna go back to

00:32:44 when things made sense and the Big Ten had 11 teams.

00:32:46 That's the world I wanna live in.

00:32:48 And the Big 12 has 10 teams,

00:32:51 and everything makes perfect sense in that world.

00:32:54 So I like to fantasize,

00:32:57 and what we just said about the ACC,

00:32:58 of course I sit there and I look at the ACC teams,

00:33:00 and I'm like, Virginia, yes, you're Big Ten.

00:33:02 North Carolina, Big Ten.

00:33:03 Clemson, you're SEC, get out of here.

00:33:06 And I'm doing all this as well.

00:33:07 What do you personally,

00:33:09 what is your dream, since we're here

00:33:11 and realignment is happening,

00:33:12 is there anything that,

00:33:13 I know you're a Big J,

00:33:16 so you don't really root for things,

00:33:17 but is there anything where you're like,

00:33:19 that would be kind of cool if this happened?

00:33:21 That this is on the horizon,

00:33:22 this is actually plausible,

00:33:23 and if this actually happened, I wouldn't hate it.

00:33:25 - So I had to do these educated guess,

00:33:28 bold prediction things for the athletic,

00:33:31 five realignment scenarios for 10 years from now.

00:33:35 So some of them, I mean I talked them out

00:33:36 with real administrators and real people

00:33:39 who think about this stuff.

00:33:40 So one was you'd have a tier, like 1A,

00:33:43 for people at the highest level of college football

00:33:46 who are paying athletes,

00:33:47 and their salaries, and it's whatever.

00:33:49 And then there's 1B for people who aren't willing to do that

00:33:51 or just don't believe in it.

00:33:54 And so I gamed out a lot of different scenarios,

00:33:56 and one was a big three,

00:33:58 so it's a big 10, the SEC,

00:33:59 and then the best of the rest is the third big league.

00:34:02 One thing that I would actually love to see eventually,

00:34:06 which would take a lot of steps to get there,

00:34:09 would be a re-regionalization of everything.

00:34:11 So maybe you do,

00:34:12 maybe footballs just get pulled out separately.

00:34:15 So maybe the CFP runs football or whatever it is,

00:34:17 that's just separate.

00:34:18 And every other sport,

00:34:20 everyone just pools the resources or the rights,

00:34:23 and just say, "Okay, let's just go back to what makes sense."

00:34:25 You get to play all your rivals,

00:34:26 all the Northeast schools are in a league together,

00:34:29 so that you have all your rivals,

00:34:30 and you don't have to get on the plane as much,

00:34:32 and it just makes sense.

00:34:33 We'll just start it over from scratch,

00:34:35 and just do things that actually make geographical sense,

00:34:38 so that you actually either renew a rivalry

00:34:41 or redevelop one, because these are your neighbors,

00:34:44 and these are the people that you see all the time.

00:34:46 And I would love to see that in all sports.

00:34:49 There was a period in COVID

00:34:52 where people were getting rid of non-conference schedules,

00:34:56 or adjusting and stuff, and soccer,

00:34:58 and they were like, "We're just gonna play

00:34:59 "the teams near us so that we don't have to fly,

00:35:01 "and save money."

00:35:02 I was like, "Why don't we do that all the time?

00:35:05 "Why are we doing this?"

00:35:07 And I get why we've gone to this point,

00:35:09 but we literally are talking about a world

00:35:11 where USC soccer is gonna be playing Rutgers soccer.

00:35:15 We don't have to do that.

00:35:15 - It's insane, yeah.

00:35:16 - Pulled football.

00:35:17 Football's the easiest one to schedule.

00:35:18 They have one game a week for 12 weeks,

00:35:22 and then everyone else play what makes sense regionally.

00:35:26 You would have to take so many different steps

00:35:28 to get to that, but I would love something like that

00:35:31 to happen eventually.

00:35:33 - Doesn't that already sort of happen with some sports?

00:35:35 Am I crazy, or is like, 'cause Notre Dame

00:35:38 is in the ACC in some stuff, right, but not--

00:35:40 - Everything but football, yeah.

00:35:41 - But everything but football.

00:35:42 - Yeah, but I'm saying, they're the one-off.

00:35:47 They're the exception.

00:35:49 I'm saying if you pull football out of everybody,

00:35:52 then just, then divvy it back up into ways

00:35:54 that make sense for all the other sports,

00:35:57 that would be great.

00:35:58 - I completely--

00:35:59 - I mean, you see, there's some small pockets of this,

00:36:01 right, like we were joking about this before we started,

00:36:03 but like the Big East deciding we're gonna be

00:36:06 a basketball league, we're gonna prioritize this,

00:36:07 we are geographically, a lot of those schools

00:36:09 vary geographically tied to each other.

00:36:12 So it does exist in smaller examples,

00:36:15 but I would just love to see that across the board.

00:36:17 Like why do you have the American and CUSA

00:36:21 that are just like kind of like random states

00:36:23 across the country?

00:36:25 Just play more regionally.

00:36:27 - I completely agree.

00:36:29 Quick break to talk about our friends at All Athlete.

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00:36:54 maybe he's not even that good, but he's still

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00:37:02 and they say this guy had to go to a junior college

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00:37:28 to Nicole about this, the spread the Michigan football

00:37:32 put out for their recruits, I wonder,

00:37:33 I gotta hit up Greg and ask him when he was on

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00:38:31 I'm gonna answer my own question,

00:38:33 I want Notre Dame in the Big Ten, I do,

00:38:35 and I hate Notre Dame, I hate Notre Dame,

00:38:39 I hate Notre Dame, I'll say it again,

00:38:41 I hate Notre Dame, football, I should say,

00:38:44 Micah Shrewsbury, very excited about,

00:38:46 love Notre Dame basketball, Notre Dame football,

00:38:49 coached by a Buckeye, and I still hate him, Nicole.

00:38:52 - So you like Notre Dame?

00:38:53 - No, I actually, if I wasn't clear, I hate Notre Dame.

00:38:56 But they, and Notre Dame and the Big Ten

00:39:00 have been flirting for decades, and it's like a--

00:39:02 - I'm glad that you're gonna steal this terminology

00:39:04 about flirting and real life.

00:39:05 - I'm gonna just keep saying flirting.

00:39:06 - It's the perfect word.

00:39:08 - I'm gonna keep saying it.

00:39:10 But they have, they've been making eyes

00:39:11 at each other for decades, and both of them

00:39:14 think that they're too big for the other,

00:39:16 but they both kind of want each other,

00:39:17 and it's just this whole, and I think the cool guy

00:39:20 approach to this, if you're a Big Ten fan,

00:39:22 is to be like, pfft, we don't need Notre Dame,

00:39:24 we got USC and UCLA, and we're gonna get these,

00:39:27 we need Notre Dame, just like, what are we doing?

00:39:31 What is everybody doing?

00:39:32 Why is Notre Dame not in the Big Ten?

00:39:34 So here's my plan to get Notre Dame in the Big Ten,

00:39:36 and you tell me if this is plausible whatsoever.

00:39:38 I think there's a world where the Big Ten

00:39:40 gets so bloated, and we might be there already,

00:39:42 but the Big Ten has so many schools

00:39:44 that eventually, you kind of, and this might

00:39:48 happen with SEC too, but my plan is that

00:39:50 the Big 12, SEC, Big Ten gets so big

00:39:54 that you almost can't play non-conference anymore.

00:39:56 Maybe you get one game in, but now,

00:39:58 the Big Ten's like, if we have 40 teams--

00:40:00 - You're onto something here.

00:40:02 - If we have 40 teams, why are we allowing our,

00:40:05 we should have--

00:40:06 - All league games.

00:40:07 - Yeah, we should have all league games.

00:40:08 That drives up TV, that gets everybody excited,

00:40:11 all sorts, you know, and SEC does the same,

00:40:14 and long story short, Notre Dame's gonna wake up

00:40:16 and have a world where no one plays them,

00:40:18 'cause they can't play any of the good,

00:40:20 no SEC school will schedule them,

00:40:22 no Big Ten school will schedule them,

00:40:24 no Big 12 school will schedule them,

00:40:25 and now they have to jump in one of these lifeboats.

00:40:28 So I'm saying, everyone sees this coming.

00:40:30 Why doesn't Notre Dame just get in the Big Ten right now?

00:40:32 Because I wanna beat Notre Dame's brains

00:40:35 in every single year.

00:40:36 - Okay, so I actually think you're onto something,

00:40:38 because my two main things, I guess there's three things

00:40:40 for Notre Dame to stay independent.

00:40:41 One is to make enough money that you're in the ballpark

00:40:45 of the others.

00:40:46 You don't need to be making the same amount of money,

00:40:47 'cause they would make more money in the ACC

00:40:50 than they do right now.

00:40:51 And they're expecting, like, NBC will probably give 'em

00:40:53 what they need to be independent, right,

00:40:55 in their next negotiations.

00:40:57 But it would be more if they were in the Big Ten.

00:40:59 But if they're in the ballpark, that's one.

00:41:01 Number two, access to the national championship,

00:41:04 which, as we all know, their athletic director

00:41:07 was on the working group that came up

00:41:09 with the 12-team playoff.

00:41:10 They can make this thing every year.

00:41:11 There's six at large spots.

00:41:12 - That's so disgusting.

00:41:13 - No conference championship required.

00:41:16 - That's so stupid.

00:41:16 - They got access every single year.

00:41:18 You remember, everyone made such a big deal.

00:41:19 They were like, oh my God, they can never get a bye,

00:41:21 a first-round bye.

00:41:22 I was like, dude, they gave the system.

00:41:24 This is a perfect scenario.

00:41:25 They can only ever host games, basically, in the playoff.

00:41:29 So they have access to the championship.

00:41:31 The third thing is scheduling who they want when they want.

00:41:34 So people bend around their schedules to make this happen,

00:41:37 right, for them to finish the season at USC,

00:41:40 or to play Michigan, or Michigan State,

00:41:43 or whoever that they want to.

00:41:44 They always play a lot of Big Ten teams,

00:41:46 the ACC teams, and the partial scheduling.

00:41:49 But if they couldn't, because everybody else

00:41:52 played all the games, or almost all the games,

00:41:55 and squeeze them from that standpoint

00:41:57 where they can't play that national schedule

00:41:59 that they want to, that is really valuable to them,

00:42:02 that is one way that something changes.

00:42:04 But again, I don't see these three things changing right now.

00:42:07 But it was a good idea.

00:42:10 - That's what I want to happen.

00:42:11 - I think that is the path that ultimately gets you there.

00:42:15 But they're really adamant.

00:42:16 They're very sovereign on this.

00:42:18 - I think, I'm really sad about the ACC

00:42:23 'cause I'm a basketball guy,

00:42:25 but it feels like the ACC is the second,

00:42:29 maybe not even the second,

00:42:30 it feels like the ACC's clock is ticking.

00:42:32 The Pac-12, to me, is kind of already dead,

00:42:34 it's just, it doesn't realize it yet.

00:42:36 You think the ACC--

00:42:36 - I have an ACC question for you.

00:42:38 - Go ahead.

00:42:39 - As a basketball guy.

00:42:40 Can the ACC be good at football and basketball

00:42:43 at the same time?

00:42:44 Can they lean into the football drives everything,

00:42:46 which they've been trying to do,

00:42:48 but also still be good at basketball

00:42:49 because they've only been sending five teams in the tournament?

00:42:51 - Yeah, they haven't been great at basketball lately.

00:42:53 It feels like they're just having

00:42:55 an identity crisis right now,

00:42:57 where that's been the whole brand of the conference.

00:43:00 It's been basketball, basketball, basketball,

00:43:02 and then a couple years ago,

00:43:03 someone tapped the ACC on the shoulder and was like,

00:43:06 hey, by the way, you should probably get your football

00:43:08 online if you're gonna survive.

00:43:10 And they're like, what?

00:43:11 And now they're panicking.

00:43:13 No, I don't think so.

00:43:14 I think the ACC, kind of what the Big East is doing,

00:43:18 but the problem, the Big East is just so cool

00:43:21 that the Big East does not have football,

00:43:22 and the Big East is just like,

00:43:23 we're a conference of basketball schools.

00:43:27 I wanted the ACC to be the power,

00:43:30 we do have football,

00:43:31 we just don't give a shit about it as much.

00:43:33 But obviously the money says otherwise.

00:43:36 But I just don't see a world

00:43:37 where you can survive this identity crisis.

00:43:39 And I guess my best case scenario for the ACC,

00:43:42 best case scenario is that none of this ever happened,

00:43:45 but we're here.

00:43:46 I think the ACC's gonna get poached

00:43:50 by the Big 10 and the SEC.

00:43:52 And then I think the scraps,

00:43:54 I think the best case scenario is the private schools,

00:43:56 your Syracuses, your Dukes, your Wake Forests,

00:44:00 that are all great basketball programs,

00:44:02 I think they end up in the Big East.

00:44:04 That would be fucking awesome to me.

00:44:05 - Syracuse back in the Big East?

00:44:06 - Syracuse back in the Big East,

00:44:07 Duke in the Big East as well.

00:44:09 'Cause nobody wants Duke, right?

00:44:10 Does anybody want Duke?

00:44:11 - Well, so this is what is also,

00:44:13 we're talking about reasons we hate realignment,

00:44:16 and reasons that there's a visceral reaction

00:44:18 to this round in particular.

00:44:20 If you game this stuff out,

00:44:22 and the ACC does break open,

00:44:25 and North Carolina does get poached somewhere,

00:44:29 Duke and Carolina are separating.

00:44:30 They're not in the same league.

00:44:32 That sucks.

00:44:32 That's not what people get into and love college sports,

00:44:36 to not have those two in the same league.

00:44:38 They're eight miles apart.

00:44:40 That's exactly what you want.

00:44:41 And so that's where I think,

00:44:43 even if it hasn't happened,

00:44:45 or maybe doesn't happen,

00:44:47 but even just the idea of thinking about it,

00:44:49 that's where people get upset about this stuff.

00:44:51 - Is Duke attractive whatsoever?

00:44:53 - I don't think they're,

00:44:54 so we had the same conversation about Kansas, right?

00:44:57 In '21, after OU and Texas leave.

00:45:00 You know, these basketball schools,

00:45:02 basketball powers, that's awesome.

00:45:04 That brings in money,

00:45:06 but it's not the driver.

00:45:07 It doesn't drive the decision.

00:45:08 - Kansas is at least a state school,

00:45:09 so if you wanna make that argument

00:45:10 that there's a huge state,

00:45:12 I don't know.

00:45:13 But there's an alumni base within this state

00:45:16 that you're trying to,

00:45:17 but I guess in 2023, we don't think that way anymore.

00:45:19 I got Jim Delaney brain of,

00:45:21 let's get Rutgers to get to New York market.

00:45:23 - Right, yeah, you don't need it for the cable TV,

00:45:26 the Kansas City market.

00:45:28 - Right, and it's just also,

00:45:30 the numbers that these schools need to hit

00:45:33 to justify adding them.

00:45:35 I always think about it that way,

00:45:37 where it's like,

00:45:37 okay, $70 million a year,

00:45:40 these schools are getting paid out.

00:45:41 So is Duke bringing $70 million worth of revenue per year?

00:45:46 - Yeah.

00:45:46 - Like, no.

00:45:47 - Yeah.

00:45:48 - It's Kansas.

00:45:49 If it's just basketball,

00:45:50 or basketball's the driver, it's not the same.

00:45:52 - This is why we need to implement your idea,

00:45:54 which is just like,

00:45:55 if football's going to be running all this,

00:45:57 then go take your drama somewhere else, football.

00:46:01 It's kind of how the rest of the sports.

00:46:03 - There's a lot of people that would love to,

00:46:05 like again, no one wants to run it,

00:46:07 and even if the CFP,

00:46:10 let's say them or someone equivalent decides to do it,

00:46:12 you still have to do all the same stuff

00:46:14 that the NCAA does,

00:46:15 like all the bureaucracy.

00:46:16 You have to decide who's eligible,

00:46:18 or what are the rules.

00:46:20 You still have to duplicate all of that,

00:46:22 but if you could pull it out

00:46:24 and then make rational decisions for everything else,

00:46:27 I just think that would be better.

00:46:29 But I just don't know,

00:46:31 and I think about the basketball tournament

00:46:35 has been this thing that's kept everyone together

00:46:37 and under one roof.

00:46:39 But what is the future of college basketball?

00:46:43 I get sad thinking about that too,

00:46:45 where each year it feels like the window

00:46:47 where it's the thing, the dominant thing is shrinking.

00:46:50 - It's shrinking.

00:46:50 But like I said at the top,

00:46:52 what really fucking sucks about that

00:46:54 is that at least with football,

00:46:56 it's like self-inflicted wounds.

00:46:58 Like football, if we wake up in 20 years

00:47:00 and we're like, "This sport sucks.

00:47:02 "How did we get here?"

00:47:04 Football did it to themselves.

00:47:06 Like football is making all these decisions.

00:47:09 Basketball is just along for the ride,

00:47:11 and that part sucks to me,

00:47:12 'cause I'm like,

00:47:14 you kind of have nothing to do with it.

00:47:15 You're just struggling along,

00:47:16 and you're like, "I don't,

00:47:17 "we're in this stupid ass conference

00:47:19 "'cause our football team wanted to play,

00:47:21 "like I don't know, we just kind of ended up here."

00:47:23 - Here's a great example, UConn.

00:47:25 So UConn goes into the--

00:47:26 - Right, right.

00:47:27 - And they're playing,

00:47:28 like they're going to Tulsa, right?

00:47:31 And Memphis, and like those schools.

00:47:34 And UCF.

00:47:36 And everyone's like, "All right, this is our league."

00:47:41 And then you go back to the Big East.

00:47:42 I was at the Garden the day that they did their presser

00:47:44 about like coming back.

00:47:46 It was so much of a celebration.

00:47:49 Also, I got to meet Jonathan the Husky, amazing.

00:47:52 But it was like, this is where we belong.

00:47:55 And this is our identity,

00:47:57 and this is what our fans want.

00:47:59 And they do, because when UConn plays Villanova,

00:48:02 or St. John's, or Georgetown, whatever,

00:48:05 they play at the Garden, it's nuts.

00:48:07 Because the regional piece,

00:48:09 and like longstanding history matters to them.

00:48:12 And this is tangentially related

00:48:14 to like the UConn Big 12 conversation,

00:48:16 'cause I think it depends, right?

00:48:17 Is it like, here's the paycheck,

00:48:19 that is financial security,

00:48:20 or do you run into exact same problems

00:48:22 that you had when you left the Big East?

00:48:24 But it's like, who are you?

00:48:28 Like, and what do you want to be?

00:48:30 And there's just been so few decisions

00:48:32 that were driven by basketball.

00:48:33 I remember there's like one question about like,

00:48:35 so is the football team gonna stay at FBS?

00:48:38 They gonna drop down, whatever?

00:48:39 It just wasn't the main factor,

00:48:41 because that's not what's as important to people.

00:48:43 But it's, again, it's like,

00:48:44 well, what are you deciding your future is?

00:48:47 How do you think you're gonna do it?

00:48:49 And it's complicated, but it just,

00:48:51 like, that was such a good example.

00:48:52 I remember being so happy for the UConn people

00:48:55 and the UConn fans when that move happened,

00:48:57 because that mattered to them.

00:48:58 - And now if they go to the Big 12, that's--

00:49:00 - They lose it all, I know.

00:49:01 - That's a tragedy.

00:49:02 - And, and--

00:49:03 - And they're gonna make a shit ton of money,

00:49:04 and I get that it makes sense for, you know,

00:49:05 the guys in the suits on UConn's campus,

00:49:08 but like that is, it all just like coalesced to a perfect,

00:49:12 UConn won in the national championships,

00:49:13 one of the great stories.

00:49:14 Just like the fact that all they've been through,

00:49:17 and their coach is suing them, and Kevin,

00:49:19 like the whole deal is like crazy,

00:49:21 and they leave the Big East, they're back,

00:49:24 they win the national championship,

00:49:25 and now they're going to the Big 12.

00:49:26 It'd be like, what the fuck, what just happened?

00:49:28 We had it perfect.

00:49:28 - And Dan Hurley literally was saying,

00:49:31 like, I don't think we do this

00:49:32 without going back to the Big East.

00:49:35 Like, the teams that you play,

00:49:36 the way that it draws, recruits, or transfers,

00:49:39 like that stuff matters.

00:49:40 So then to immediately go the other way would be,

00:49:43 would be like very much,

00:49:44 here's what college sports is in 2023.

00:49:46 And I don't know that they're going to get the invite,

00:49:48 but even the fact that we're having that conversation,

00:49:51 like geography doesn't matter, this stuff doesn't matter.

00:49:54 - I'm going to throw some scenarios at you

00:49:56 that feel various degrees of plausible, I guess we'll say.

00:50:01 And you just tell me whatever thoughts you have, Nicole.

00:50:04 You don't have to, you could say no comment,

00:50:06 you could whatever, but like I said,

00:50:08 throughout this show, I just like to come up

00:50:11 with like wild shit, and then you can just riff on it,

00:50:14 however you see fit.

00:50:16 The idea of the SEC and or Big 10

00:50:19 just breaking away from the NCAA altogether,

00:50:21 the idea of Greg Sanky being like,

00:50:23 I'm more powerful than anyone.

00:50:25 Why do I take orders from the NCAA?

00:50:27 Why do we need the NCAA?

00:50:28 Why don't I just run everything?

00:50:30 And yeah, what are your thoughts on this?

00:50:33 - So he has worked at all levels of college sports,

00:50:38 and he has spent a ton of time on NCAA committees.

00:50:41 He chaired the transformation committee,

00:50:43 which was like a huge time suck,

00:50:45 was like two hours a week.

00:50:47 They were the ones who like,

00:50:48 were looking at tournament expansion,

00:50:50 but like all these other issues around like,

00:50:53 what is a baseline experience for a college athlete?

00:50:56 I just don't think that you spend all of that time

00:50:58 and energy and devote your whole life to college athletics,

00:51:01 and then turn your back on it.

00:51:02 And I think he believes in leading from within

00:51:06 and like changing within.

00:51:08 And he's obviously like one of the people

00:51:09 who's gone to Congress and be like,

00:51:11 hey, like we need help, like we need these things.

00:51:13 And I think there's, like it sounds very like Pollyanna-ish

00:51:16 to be like there's true believers,

00:51:17 like who believe that this model like offers scholarships

00:51:20 and opportunities to people

00:51:21 who might not otherwise have had it.

00:51:23 And I think he does believe those things.

00:51:25 So I think he is more likely,

00:51:27 and maybe this changes if you--

00:51:29 - Well, my uncle told me he's evil.

00:51:31 My uncle, who's a big 10 guy,

00:51:32 just said Greg Snanky's evil and the SEC's evil.

00:51:34 So I was like, that's Uncle Ron,

00:51:36 you make some great points.

00:51:37 - Yeah, we can have him on the show next time.

00:51:39 But my point is that I do think,

00:51:41 and maybe you hit a point

00:51:42 where you're just too frustrated

00:51:43 and everything's moving too slowly,

00:51:45 you're not able to get what you need.

00:51:47 But I think right now,

00:51:48 like if you can change from within

00:51:51 and try to save the enterprise that's being like under attack

00:51:55 then you try to do that.

00:51:57 I think that's where he is right now.

00:51:57 - Okay, that's comforting.

00:51:59 The SEC adding a school north of the Mason-Dixon,

00:52:03 because as much as the SEC has triggered

00:52:06 this newest wave of realignment with Texas and Oklahoma,

00:52:11 they're still like, the map still makes sense.

00:52:13 You look at the SEC school map, it still makes sense.

00:52:15 And they're still like kind of tightly-ish.

00:52:18 They're getting a little fatter here, but like,

00:52:20 it's still-- - Yeah, there's still,

00:52:20 there's all of your states touch each other, right?

00:52:22 - So the idea of, like, I guess the question is,

00:52:26 do you feel like the SEC regionality still matters?

00:52:29 Or like the map still matters to them?

00:52:31 Or like Oregon and Washington,

00:52:32 if you're holding out for an SEC invite,

00:52:34 I would say don't hold your breath.

00:52:36 - I think the map still matters.

00:52:37 I think that they, it's almost even come across

00:52:41 as like a jab at the Big Ten in the last year,

00:52:44 about like, no, all of our states are like,

00:52:46 congru, congru, I can't,

00:52:48 I'm not gonna be able to say the word correctly.

00:52:50 They all touch each other.

00:52:51 They're all connected.

00:52:52 Like, they all make sense geographically.

00:52:55 And that is part of our identity.

00:52:56 And so I do think that that is something

00:52:59 that is very important to them.

00:53:00 And I would be surprised if that changes.

00:53:02 - What about the idea of,

00:53:05 I've kicked this around on the show as well in the past.

00:53:10 Stanford and/or Cal, just, I don't know.

00:53:13 I don't know if it's dissolved football or,

00:53:15 'cause I get the sense that those two schools

00:53:19 truly just don't care.

00:53:20 And I got into an argument,

00:53:22 Brandon Walker came on my show.

00:53:24 He's one of the big dumb rednecks

00:53:26 we have working here at Barstool.

00:53:28 And we were talking about realignment a little bit.

00:53:30 And I made the point to him that I was like,

00:53:33 Stanford and Cal are two schools that like,

00:53:36 frankly, winning a football national championship

00:53:38 doesn't seem to matter to them as much as curing cancer.

00:53:40 That's what they exist for as entities.

00:53:43 And I feel like there's a world where they just feel

00:53:45 like they're above even all of,

00:53:48 they're just like, you peasants,

00:53:50 go figure this out yourselves.

00:53:51 And we're gonna sit up here on our,

00:53:53 for better or worse,

00:53:54 that just seems to be what they care about.

00:53:56 Probably for better.

00:53:58 It's probably for better.

00:53:59 It's probably for better.

00:54:00 - Yeah, I think curing cancer is winning

00:54:01 a national championship.

00:54:02 - Or is it?

00:54:02 I don't know.

00:54:03 - Which one should we root for?

00:54:04 - But yeah, the idea of Stanford and Cal,

00:54:07 how much of a fight do you think they are putting up

00:54:10 as schools in all of this?

00:54:12 And how much of it do you think they're just like,

00:54:14 we don't, we're Stanford and we're Cal.

00:54:16 - I mean, I think that's a very real question.

00:54:20 And Stanford cut a bunch of sports during the pandemic.

00:54:25 And they already, they do offer a lot.

00:54:26 Like they are very good at a variety of Olympic sports.

00:54:31 But when I was saying earlier,

00:54:32 like, could you imagine a world where there's like two,

00:54:35 maybe Division I's divided again or FBS divided again.

00:54:38 And some people are like,

00:54:40 we will spend whatever we need to spend.

00:54:41 Like we know Georgia and Ohio State and those schools will,

00:54:44 you know, whatever the maximum is.

00:54:45 Or if you're gonna pay players

00:54:47 and it's a different designation,

00:54:49 but it's still tied to like college football or whatever,

00:54:52 they will do it.

00:54:53 I don't think that you can necessarily say that

00:54:55 about Stanford and Cal.

00:54:56 Like I do think if, you know,

00:54:59 you're looking 10 years out, 15 years out, whatever,

00:55:01 and maybe there is, okay,

00:55:03 people are actually deciding which sports

00:55:05 they're gonna put money into,

00:55:06 or they're gonna be like, well, we're gonna offer it,

00:55:08 but it's maybe it's more like a club sports experience

00:55:11 where we're not competing at the absolute highest levels,

00:55:14 but we're still offering scholarships.

00:55:16 There could be another, a lot of schools that are like,

00:55:18 A, we can't afford it or B, we don't wanna be that.

00:55:21 And so I think that those are valid questions

00:55:23 for those schools, yes.

00:55:24 - All right, I got two more for you.

00:55:27 - Can we talk about the Barbie movie?

00:55:28 - Yeah, we can, we absolutely can.

00:55:30 I saw it.

00:55:31 - You saw it?

00:55:31 - I did see it, I did see it.

00:55:33 SEC or Big Ten kicking a school out to make,

00:55:36 like looking at their schools and being like,

00:55:40 why do we have, what the hell is Rutgers doing here?

00:55:43 What if we got rid of Rutgers?

00:55:44 That'd make room for, you know, these two.

00:55:46 Do you think there's a world

00:55:47 where they ever kick schools out?

00:55:49 - Well, because you're saying ever,

00:55:50 I would say, I guess there's always a possibility.

00:55:53 I would be surprised if that happens.

00:55:55 I know it's happened historically.

00:55:56 Like teams have gotten kicked out of leagues.

00:56:00 And I know that you could say like a Vanderbilt football

00:56:02 is not carrying their weight.

00:56:05 I just think that would be--

00:56:06 - That's a terrible precedent.

00:56:07 - Terrible precedent and so against

00:56:09 what they all say college sports needs to be.

00:56:12 - Lastly, a New Year's Six Bowl, just poof.

00:56:16 Just like the new, like where do we stand with the Bulls?

00:56:20 Like the Bulls, they're trying to preserve them.

00:56:22 Why are we trying to keep this dinosaur on life support?

00:56:25 - Well, you're talking, like you're preaching to the choir.

00:56:27 I mean, I think that we should have more games on campus.

00:56:31 I don't think the first round of the playoff game

00:56:33 is gonna be enough.

00:56:34 I think the quarter should also be on campus.

00:56:36 And if you have to go to both sites

00:56:39 for the semifinals and the championship, fine.

00:56:42 But I just think like that's why we love college football.

00:56:46 Like it's the energy, it's the bands, the cheerleaders.

00:56:48 It's like being in the college town.

00:56:50 And also in the way that the playoffs getting set up,

00:56:53 if you're one of the top four teams and you get a bye,

00:56:56 you don't get a home game.

00:56:57 - That's so stupid.

00:56:58 - Instead of getting rewarded like that

00:57:00 where you're season ticket holders

00:57:01 and your local businesses get it,

00:57:04 you're literally like, "Hey fans,

00:57:05 "you gotta travel three times now in the next three weeks."

00:57:07 - And that really frustrates me, but also it's nice

00:57:10 because I've been arguing forever that if Bama

00:57:12 had to come up and play Big Ten teams in December,

00:57:16 they would get worked.

00:57:17 And I don't wanna actually get called on that.

00:57:20 I don't want my bluff called.

00:57:21 It's a lot easier to just say they would get worked

00:57:23 than to actually have to go out and meet them.

00:57:26 - They could still get there if they're like

00:57:29 a nine through 12 seed.

00:57:30 They could still get sent up north.

00:57:33 - Yeah, but I don't want that.

00:57:34 And then it's a lot easier, Nicole, to say,

00:57:36 if Bama was to play Ohio State in December,

00:57:39 we would wreck them.

00:57:41 But then when I turn on the TV and Bama is coming out

00:57:43 of Ohio Stadium, I'm gonna go, "Fuck, what have I done?"

00:57:46 - What if then Ohio State wins?

00:57:47 Then you're just like perpetual backyards.

00:57:49 - That's a good point.

00:57:50 Then I could say,

00:57:51 give us all those national championships in the past.

00:57:54 We would have won.

00:57:55 - The transitive property.

00:57:57 - We would have won all of these had we not have to play.

00:57:59 Why do we have to play LSU in New Orleans every single time?

00:58:03 Every time LSU's playing for a national championship,

00:58:05 Ohio State's in New Orleans getting their asses beat by LSU.

00:58:10 It doesn't make sense.

00:58:11 It doesn't make sense.

00:58:12 Not every time, but we've lost.

00:58:14 It's happened before.

00:58:15 - Yeah, but also 2014 was in--

00:58:18 - No, it wasn't.

00:58:19 - That was Alabama.

00:58:20 - We played--

00:58:21 - It was Miami.

00:58:22 - Yeah, we played and we beat Alabama.

00:58:23 That's a good point.

00:58:24 - Yeah, I was at that one.

00:58:24 That was in the back of my mind.

00:58:25 - But we played Georgia in the Peach Bowl.

00:58:27 We play LSU in the Sugar Bowl.

00:58:30 We play--

00:58:31 - That's because the venues are all down there.

00:58:32 - I know, it's fucking annoying.

00:58:35 It's annoying.

00:58:35 I just want, can Georgia play?

00:58:37 Can we play in Cleveland?

00:58:38 Let's play one game in Cleveland.

00:58:39 Anyway, that's enough.

00:58:40 I'm gonna get fired up.

00:58:42 Anyway, what else?

00:58:44 You wanna talk about the Barbie movie?

00:58:45 - I do, actually.

00:58:46 - I liked it.

00:58:46 - I saw it twice already.

00:58:47 - Oh, really?

00:58:48 - Yeah.

00:58:49 Just as funny the second time.

00:58:50 - How much do you like it?

00:58:51 Give me a, is this life-changing like it?

00:58:55 Is this like--

00:58:56 - I think it's cultural--

00:58:57 - An enjoyable romp?

00:58:58 (laughing)

00:59:00 - I think it is somewhere between there.

00:59:02 - Okay.

00:59:03 - No, I think it's like, it's,

00:59:05 I mean, I went the first time,

00:59:06 like bought tickets just for the memes.

00:59:07 Like I knew that it was--

00:59:08 - Did you do the pink?

00:59:09 - I did wear pink, yeah.

00:59:11 Didn't know they were gonna have that life-size

00:59:12 Barbie box to take photos in.

00:59:14 Did you do that?

00:59:14 - No, we didn't have that at my theater.

00:59:16 - Oh, okay, so they have that.

00:59:18 - But I went just for the memes,

00:59:20 'cause like I just thought it was gonna be a thing, right?

00:59:23 And then I was like, oh, this is actually a real movie.

00:59:25 Like hit on real topics.

00:59:26 And then also it was way funnier

00:59:28 than I thought it was going to be.

00:59:29 And I was near tears when Ryan Gosling

00:59:32 was doing the guitar part.

00:59:34 - Yeah, that was great.

00:59:35 - Like I was near tears.

00:59:36 - Gosling killed it, I thought.

00:59:37 - He was so good.

00:59:38 I hope he wins an Emmy for it.

00:59:39 - Yeah, is it okay for, old Oscar, right?

00:59:42 - Sorry, that's what I meant.

00:59:43 - Yeah, sorry.

00:59:44 - Oscar.

00:59:45 - That would be wild if he won an Emmy though.

00:59:46 That would be pretty wild.

00:59:47 - I hope he wins an Oscar and also get that song nominated.

00:59:50 - Yeah, he could maybe get something.

00:59:52 Yeah, I feel like that was kind of,

00:59:55 I don't know, Nicole, is it problematic to say,

00:59:57 but like I walked out of the theater and I was like,

00:59:59 I think the dude killed the Barbie movie.

01:00:01 I think the guy, I think the person who stole the show

01:00:05 was the guy.

01:00:05 - Well, before I went in, it was like all the reviews

01:00:09 were like about how great the movie was

01:00:11 and that Ryan Gosling was the star of it.

01:00:13 And I was like, Ken?

01:00:14 - I was like, yeah, I think.

01:00:15 - But this is what I think the movie did well.

01:00:17 Like that is how you, as a child,

01:00:19 as a girl who played with Barbies, Ken did suck.

01:00:21 He was just there.

01:00:22 - Ken sucked, yeah, yeah.

01:00:23 - They nailed that.

01:00:24 - I would play Barbies with my sister

01:00:26 and I would play with Ken as she was playing with Barbies.

01:00:28 - He didn't do anything.

01:00:29 - I was like, what do I do with this?

01:00:30 Like what am I, I just hold it, I'll just hold it right here.

01:00:32 Yeah, it was very funny.

01:00:33 I enjoyed the hell out of it.

01:00:35 Even the, I mean like obviously it's like a,

01:00:38 they're making fun of men in a lot of ways.

01:00:39 And I don't know, there was a lot of like, that's me.

01:00:44 Like, you know, I've watched the movie

01:00:45 and I'm like, that's funny, that's me.

01:00:46 And I don't know, it's weird the dudes seem to like

01:00:49 be offended, I don't know.

01:00:51 Like people like see themselves like being made fun of

01:00:54 and they get mad.

01:00:55 I do the opposite.

01:00:56 I'm like, I do do that, I do that.

01:00:57 I do that, I went with my girlfriend

01:00:58 and I just turned around and was like,

01:00:59 that's me, I fucking do that.

01:01:01 - I actually thought that like they did it

01:01:02 in a very nice way.

01:01:03 Like it was so obvious satire about that stuff,

01:01:07 about like the horses and the workouts.

01:01:08 - Yeah, it wasn't, they weren't trying to make

01:01:09 like a kill shot.

01:01:10 It wasn't like a let's tear down the page.

01:01:12 It was just kind of like, let's take a few jabs

01:01:14 and have some fun.

01:01:15 I thought it was great.

01:01:16 I thought it was very funny.

01:01:17 Before I let you go, we have to talk

01:01:19 Michigan, Ohio State.

01:01:20 You are, you're a Michigan person.

01:01:25 - Yes.

01:01:26 - So.

01:01:28 - Proud of you for not bringing that up sooner.

01:01:29 - I, what, where's Michigan at going into this season?

01:01:34 Where's the expectation?

01:01:38 - Very high.

01:01:39 - Because on the one hand, like you own Ohio State,

01:01:42 you finally get over the hump, you win the big,

01:01:44 you own the Big Ten, but also the TCU has to be,

01:01:48 like that taste has to be just a terrible taste

01:01:51 in the mouth of Michigan fans.

01:01:52 And there's like real expectations

01:01:55 between the schedule, like Ohio State quarterback situation,

01:01:58 like Ohio State probably won't be as good

01:02:00 as they were last year, but maybe they will.

01:02:02 I don't know, we'll see.

01:02:03 It's like the time is now for Michigan.

01:02:06 So like the expectation through the roof,

01:02:07 like Michigan can't, like Michigan can't fuck this up,

01:02:11 Nicole, like there's an unbelievable amount of pressure

01:02:14 on Michigan going into this season.

01:02:15 - Yeah, but I also think that they are the best version

01:02:19 that they've been.

01:02:20 - What could go wrong?

01:02:23 - Well, Jim Harbaugh's been suspended,

01:02:25 or will be, will likely be suspended.

01:02:28 - What did he do?

01:02:30 Was it worse than Trestle or not?

01:02:32 That's all I wanna know.

01:02:33 Was what Jim Harbaugh did more--

01:02:35 - Listen, I said this to you earlier,

01:02:37 but the key is breaking NCAA rules

01:02:40 when no one likes the NCAA or cares about them anymore,

01:02:43 versus like when they're in the peak of their powers

01:02:46 and people get really worked up over tattoos.

01:02:48 No, so the reason he's gonna get the punishment

01:02:51 he's getting is because he wasn't forthcoming

01:02:54 and didn't apologize for it.

01:02:56 Like that's what the NCAA is looking for now

01:02:58 is like cooperation.

01:02:59 - Just kiss the ring, yeah.

01:03:00 - Yeah, and also like they don't wanna punish teams,

01:03:03 like they're really trying not to do post-season bans

01:03:05 and things that like impact actual players

01:03:07 who had nothing to do with it.

01:03:09 But--

01:03:11 - Good for you guys.

01:03:12 - Again, you should pick your timing better on--

01:03:16 - I miss Jim Trestle so much.

01:03:17 I love Jim Trestle.

01:03:18 - That was a wild one because it's funny,

01:03:20 like it wasn't that long ago

01:03:22 and you look back and read like the coverage at the time

01:03:24 and it's like--

01:03:25 - Oh, it's scathing.

01:03:26 - Yeah, 'cause people have really acted

01:03:28 like breaking NCAA rule was breaking the law

01:03:31 and that it was like this moral failing

01:03:33 of every single person, like it was a crazy time.

01:03:36 - My first ever dealing with Ohio State fans

01:03:39 or the first time I ever felt like, oh shit,

01:03:41 I understood like how media works was I wrote on my blog,

01:03:45 I was just like riffing on my blog, writing nonsense

01:03:49 and I was writing about,

01:03:51 I wasn't writing to be like a journalist,

01:03:53 I was just kinda like saying whatever I saw

01:03:55 and like someone had wrote in and asked me like,

01:03:57 "Do you think the football players got free cars?"

01:03:59 And I was like, I remember writing like,

01:04:01 I don't fucking know if they got free cars or not,

01:04:03 but if you just drive by the Woody,

01:04:04 like everyone's driving some pimped out cars,

01:04:07 it's pretty crazy.

01:04:07 And ESPN aggregated me

01:04:09 and I was getting death threats like crazy

01:04:11 and I just look back on that,

01:04:13 I'm like what an insane time to like,

01:04:15 this was a time where, I don't know,

01:04:17 it was like, I don't know,

01:04:19 the idea of it now is preposterous,

01:04:21 but that scared the crap out of me.

01:04:22 - Yeah, but I do, back to the Michigan point,

01:04:25 I think expectations are very high.

01:04:28 I think that when Blake Corum came back,

01:04:32 you still have Donovan Edwards,

01:04:33 you still have J.J. McCarthy,

01:04:34 they don't need to stretch the field vertically

01:04:37 and actually develop that part of the offense,

01:04:39 but they're gonna be really good

01:04:41 and I'm fascinated about Ohio State

01:04:43 because making the playoff,

01:04:45 getting in through the back door was huge, right?

01:04:48 Because you were toe to toe with Georgia,

01:04:51 like Ohio State's built to compete with the teams

01:04:54 that win national championships.

01:04:56 Michigan is still built differently,

01:04:59 which is part of the reason that they've beaten Ohio State

01:05:01 the last two years, the way that they've beaten them.

01:05:03 So that's still the question,

01:05:05 like can you win a playoff game?

01:05:06 Like can you actually contend for a national championship?

01:05:09 But for Ohio State, it's like,

01:05:11 you can't lose twice in a row to Michigan.

01:05:14 You just can't do that.

01:05:16 You know, I saw people being like,

01:05:18 isn't Ryan Day on the hot seat?

01:05:19 Like this is the only game he can lose.

01:05:21 - I personally fired him.

01:05:22 - I think that is a realistic reaction

01:05:25 from Ohio State fans in that circumstance.

01:05:27 You can win every other game, but that's the game.

01:05:28 - It wasn't just we lost it, it was like how,

01:05:31 'cause at halftime, you're like,

01:05:32 we're clearly the better team

01:05:33 and we don't need to go through it again.

01:05:35 But that was the Ohio State perspective.

01:05:37 Like at halftime, you're like,

01:05:38 all right, so we got better athletes.

01:05:39 We're gonna, you know, like they have a quarterback

01:05:41 that can't throw the ball.

01:05:42 We're gonna fucking blow this thing open

01:05:44 and we're gonna run 'em off the field.

01:05:45 And then we come out in the second half

01:05:46 and we're dinking and dunking wide receiver screens

01:05:48 and everyone's losing their mind

01:05:49 and then all of a sudden, Michigan's bombing it downfield.

01:05:51 I was like, what has happened?

01:05:53 So I think it was like not just that they lost,

01:05:55 it was that like-- - The way.

01:05:56 - The way it just kind of unraveled.

01:05:57 You're like, how is this happening?

01:05:58 - Like how physical Michigan's been

01:06:00 in those games the last two years.

01:06:01 Like it's all the stuff that you just don't wanna lose

01:06:03 to your hated rival that way.

01:06:05 - Yeah, I think, I've said this before,

01:06:08 but I think Ohio State, as you said,

01:06:09 is built to win national championships.

01:06:11 Michigan is, right now, is a freaking machine

01:06:15 built to win the Big 10.

01:06:16 And they're just at odds with each other.

01:06:18 And I think like it's gonna happen again.

01:06:19 I think both teams are gonna make the playoffs again.

01:06:22 I think Michigan's gonna beat Ohio State

01:06:23 and win the Big 10.

01:06:24 'Cause Ohio State isn't built

01:06:26 for late November Big 10 weather.

01:06:27 We're built to like try to compete with Georgia,

01:06:30 which we can do better than Michigan, I think.

01:06:32 - Right.

01:06:33 - It's such a weird sport.

01:06:34 - No, it is. - That's such a weird sport.

01:06:35 'Cause I think--

01:06:36 - Well, it's kind of like, it's a little bit like basketball

01:06:39 where it's like Purdue and Virginia.

01:06:41 - Yeah, Purdue, yeah.

01:06:42 - Man, they can have these great regular season.

01:06:43 - It's gonna happen in, it's gonna happen

01:06:45 with Big 10 and basketball where Purdue

01:06:46 is going to win the Big 10 this year,

01:06:48 but we're gonna go into the tournament

01:06:49 and you're gonna say, if you have to pick a Big 10 team

01:06:51 to win it all, everyone's gonna say Michigan State.

01:06:52 Everyone's gonna be like,

01:06:53 Michigan State's the only team against--

01:06:54 - Well, Indiana last year was a team that I was more like,

01:06:56 well, actually their style of play

01:06:57 and maybe the way they did it, right?

01:06:59 But it's kind of the same thing and it's weird,

01:07:03 but people say styles make fights for a reason

01:07:05 'cause it does.

01:07:07 Anyway, excited for three in a row.

01:07:09 So--

01:07:10 - No.

01:07:11 - We will-- - Disgusting, disgusting.

01:07:13 - We'll definitely be chatting.

01:07:14 - Maybe Ohio State will fake COVID like Michigan did

01:07:16 and get out of the game.

01:07:18 - See, that was actually the one year

01:07:20 where they should have moved the game.

01:07:21 Like that's actually, do you see Ryan Day said

01:07:23 that they should consider moving the game?

01:07:25 - I hate that.

01:07:26 I hate that. - I hate that too.

01:07:27 But the one year that they should have done that

01:07:29 was the COVID year. - Was the COVID year.

01:07:30 - Because then you had the entire rest of the season

01:07:32 to make it up and they didn't do that.

01:07:33 - People forget Jim Harbaugh would have been fired

01:07:35 if he didn't fake COVID.

01:07:36 And he would have gone into Columbus

01:07:38 and got his ass handed to him

01:07:39 and then Michigan probably would have fired him.

01:07:42 And then, I'm not bitter though, Nicole.

01:07:44 I'm not bitter.

01:07:45 I'm fine with it.

01:07:46 I'm at a good-- - Yeah, definitely not

01:07:47 a 40 year old moment for you.

01:07:48 - I'm at a good place with it all.

01:07:50 Thank you for coming in and making time for us.

01:07:54 This was fun.

01:07:55 We'll have to do it again now that I live in Chicago.

01:07:56 You're a Chicago-- - Absolutely, yeah.

01:07:57 - Yeah. - Yeah.

01:07:58 - We're basically neighbors. - You're a Chicago resident.

01:07:59 We're basically neighbors now,

01:08:00 so we'll have to do it again.

01:08:01 - Anytime.

01:08:03 - Quick break to talk about our friends at Coors Light.

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01:09:27 - All right, thank you to Nicole Auerbach

01:09:29 for making time for us.

01:09:30 It's devastating, TJ, to be an Ohio State fan.

01:09:34 It just dawned on me in that moment

01:09:37 that Michigan and Ohio State, the game, got brought up.

01:09:40 These are new waters for me, I'll just say that.

01:09:46 I didn't grow up an Ohio State fan.

01:09:49 I didn't really care about Ohio State

01:09:52 versus Michigan football until I went to school there.

01:09:55 And pretty much as soon as I got to campus,

01:09:57 we started beating the hell out of Michigan

01:09:58 every single year.

01:09:59 So I've never really lived in a world,

01:10:01 I've literally never seen Michigan beat Ohio State twice.

01:10:04 My brain just short-circuited

01:10:07 'cause I'm sitting across from Nicole

01:10:08 trying to talk shit about Michigan and Ohio State

01:10:10 and then I realize, what do I do?

01:10:11 I've never been in this position before

01:10:13 where the Michigan fans have such an upper hand.

01:10:17 That was uncomfortable and I didn't like it and I hate it.

01:10:20 And Ryan Day, goddammit, please win this year.

01:10:23 That's all I'm gonna say.

01:10:23 So there's that.

01:10:24 But yeah, that was fun.

01:10:26 Nicole is great.

01:10:30 I don't know, the conference realignment thing is,

01:10:35 I kind of touched on it, but it's like,

01:10:37 with her, just the sentiment of

01:10:39 we're all losing our minds about it,

01:10:40 but it is kind of like a constant that's going on.

01:10:43 I mean, you're a Rutgers fan, you know this.

01:10:45 Rutgers has been in, you know.

01:10:48 - Yeah, we bounced around a little bit.

01:10:49 I mean, you guys mentioned us more than I'd like to hear

01:10:52 in the average interview about people--

01:10:54 - No, Rutgers is good.

01:10:55 I mentioned Rutgers specifically about

01:10:57 what if the Big Ten would kick out Rutgers.

01:10:59 She said no, Rutgers is good.

01:11:01 So there you go.

01:11:02 - I do think we've breached through the point

01:11:04 where we're now good because our TV contract expands

01:11:08 and the argument that we bring in the New York market

01:11:11 is the dumbest thing ever, but it is like,

01:11:13 logistically speaking, that is true.

01:11:15 That they can claim New York as part of their market

01:11:18 because of Rutgers, which, yippee, I guess.

01:11:21 It's not like there's fans lining the streets.

01:11:24 It's not really a college football city,

01:11:25 but yeah, it's great.

01:11:27 Like Jack Mack had a scoop the other day.

01:11:29 You guys didn't bring it up directly, but--

01:11:31 - I was gonna bring it up.

01:11:33 I had seen it as well, yeah.

01:11:33 - Florida State and Clemson and Oregon and Washington

01:11:36 joining the Big Ten this week.

01:11:38 It's crazy.

01:11:40 I don't really, I guess my question is

01:11:42 what's the end game for all of this?

01:11:44 Like, is it one conference or is it two conferences?

01:11:47 Because like--

01:11:48 - That's the--

01:11:49 - It's not like conferences.

01:11:50 What's the point of having a conference

01:11:51 if Rutgers has to go to Eugene, Oregon once every other year?

01:11:54 - Right, yeah, Nicole is the big J,

01:11:55 so she's a little more grounded and deals with real,

01:11:59 like, you know, she deals with real evidence

01:12:02 put in front of her, which is like talking to people

01:12:04 and hearing what they're saying and all that sort of thing.

01:12:05 I am not.

01:12:06 I just sit in my room at home and I'm like,

01:12:07 all right, so here's the situation.

01:12:09 We're gonna have 50 fucking teams in the Big Ten.

01:12:12 We're gonna have 50 teams in the SEC.

01:12:13 - Yeah.

01:12:15 - Pac-12, see ya.

01:12:16 ACC, see ya.

01:12:19 - Yeah, I don't, that seems to be the end game to me

01:12:22 is it feels like, I think the Big 12 was fine.

01:12:24 I mean, not just 'cause Colorado's coming.

01:12:26 The Dan Lanning quote was amazing.

01:12:28 Right before we sat down, I saw Dan Lanning was like,

01:12:30 Colorado's won nothing.

01:12:31 Colorado's won nothing.

01:12:33 Why are we freaking out that we lost Colorado?

01:12:35 I don't think the Big 12, I don't think that like

01:12:38 bolsters the Big 12 per se, other than just like,

01:12:41 I think the Big 12's attitude right now

01:12:44 is they'll take whoever they can get

01:12:46 like that's of a certain stature.

01:12:48 I think the Big 12's gonna be fine.

01:12:50 It is obviously going to be the SEC and the Big Ten,

01:12:54 but the Big 12 will be a nice third option.

01:12:57 I don't see a world where the Pac-12's right

01:12:59 'cause I think that Cal and Stanford will,

01:13:04 what I said to Nicole, I think they don't care.

01:13:06 I don't think they're gonna put up

01:13:07 any sort of fight whatsoever.

01:13:08 I think they're just like, put us out of our misery.

01:13:11 We'll go cure cancer and, you know, do science.

01:13:16 What do you do with science?

01:13:16 What is science anyway?

01:13:19 What is, you're just doing science?

01:13:21 Just nerd shit?

01:13:22 They're just like, we're just gonna go do some nerd shit.

01:13:25 I do think the Pac-12 is in trouble,

01:13:28 but yeah, it does feel like that's where we're headed.

01:13:32 Again, we touched on it a little bit,

01:13:34 but the idea of the West Coast

01:13:36 not really having a power conference is wild to me.

01:13:39 The idea that the West Coast,

01:13:41 we're probably gonna live in a world

01:13:42 where there's no power conference on the West Coast.

01:13:45 Just all the West Coast schools have been stripped for parts

01:13:47 and distributed amongst the rest of the country.

01:13:51 It's crazy, but that's the world we live in.

01:13:52 And yeah, it is funny to sit here

01:13:57 and pretend like this never happens in college sports,

01:14:01 even though this has been going on forever.

01:14:03 But still, this time it's different.

01:14:05 This time it's different.

01:14:06 It is loud as hell outside, by the way.

01:14:10 I don't know what's going on in this studio.

01:14:11 I don't know who we brought in,

01:14:12 but I don't know if White Sox Dave

01:14:14 is trying to wrestle somebody or what's going on.

01:14:16 But sorry if I'm a little distracted.

01:14:19 - How has it been acclimating to that environment?

01:14:23 I saw you guys throwing the ball outside.

01:14:25 - Oh yeah, me and Brandon and Dave

01:14:27 were just tossing the pigskin, as guys do,

01:14:29 out in the alleyway.

01:14:30 It's been cool.

01:14:33 I've enjoyed it so far.

01:14:35 I'm still trying to figure out Dave a little bit.

01:14:44 They are screaming.

01:14:44 I don't know what the hell's going on out there.

01:14:47 They are literally...

01:14:49 - I'm gonna keep it rolling.

01:14:51 I wanna go see what the fuck's going on.

01:14:53 This is insane.

01:14:54 - Mark is getting up and walking to the front of the room.

01:15:03 I can't hear anything through his mic on my end.

01:15:06 I don't know if that's a Zoom or not,

01:15:08 but I know last week there was heavy construction audio

01:15:11 in that office.

01:15:12 This week, just screaming, apparently.

01:15:13 - No, it's louder.

01:15:14 - We're turning to the chair now.

01:15:15 - No, it's fine.

01:15:16 We're rolling still, so it's fine.

01:15:17 Yeah, we're good, we're good.

01:15:18 Yeah, no.

01:15:19 No, it was a fact-finding mission.

01:15:22 It was not a complaint.

01:15:23 I was just seeing what was going on.

01:15:24 I wasn't trying to...

01:15:26 So I went out there and I just popped my head out

01:15:28 and I wasn't...

01:15:29 I didn't say a word.

01:15:30 I wasn't like, "Shut the fuck up, everybody."

01:15:31 I was just like, "What is this?

01:15:32 "I gotta see what this is."

01:15:34 And then they must've interpreted that as me

01:15:38 being passive aggressive.

01:15:39 - What's happening?

01:15:40 - There are like three or four,

01:15:42 I can only describe them as influencer types.

01:15:44 They just look like...

01:15:48 I don't know how else to describe them.

01:15:50 I have to get used to this with Barstool, TJ.

01:15:52 Just people coming into the office

01:15:53 so you're not really sure who they are,

01:15:54 but they just bring a whirlwind of energy.

01:15:58 I don't know who they are.

01:16:00 It just looked like three or four dudes

01:16:02 that are probably popular on TikTok or something.

01:16:07 That's the way I would describe them.

01:16:09 - Interesting.

01:16:10 - And they're mixing it up with the Chicago...

01:16:12 And some of the producers and stuff.

01:16:14 I don't know who...

01:16:14 They must've talked with Eddie and...

01:16:17 I don't know, did they go on the dog walk or something?

01:16:19 I don't know what the hell is going on here.

01:16:21 This is new for me.

01:16:22 So I enjoy working out of this office.

01:16:24 This is a small office here in Chicago, I will say.

01:16:27 We have small digs until the new place is being built.

01:16:30 So there is that.

01:16:32 But anyway, that was crazy.

01:16:34 I think that's...

01:16:37 Do we have shout outs?

01:16:38 Anything else?

01:16:39 Any other shout outs?

01:16:40 - I know to you and Brandon,

01:16:41 you guys went to the National Card Convention

01:16:44 or the Sports and Memorabilia Show last week.

01:16:46 The video came out today.

01:16:48 - Yeah.

01:16:49 I had no idea that this was a thing.

01:16:51 I really didn't.

01:16:52 I would have assumed that there was a convention

01:16:55 where people did this, but I never knew...

01:16:57 I never really paid much attention to it.

01:16:59 Brandon texted me, "Hey, do you want to go to this?"

01:17:02 I thought it was in Chicago every year.

01:17:03 It turns out it's not.

01:17:04 They move it around.

01:17:05 It just happened to be in Chicago this year.

01:17:07 And he's like, "Hey, do you want to go to this

01:17:08 "and try to find something for our set?"

01:17:11 I said, "Sure," thinking it was going to be

01:17:13 like a small high school cafeteria

01:17:17 having like a glorified yard sale.

01:17:20 It was definitely not that.

01:17:23 It was a convention center

01:17:25 of just like packed to the brim

01:17:28 of just like the wildest shit.

01:17:29 I was blown away.

01:17:30 It actually, in the end, won me over

01:17:32 because they had a lot of cool stuff there.

01:17:35 They had a lot of really cool things.

01:17:37 And I couldn't believe how expensive some of the things were.

01:17:41 But yeah, it was cool.

01:17:43 I would recommend going.

01:17:44 If it's coming to your city next year,

01:17:46 the year after, whatever,

01:17:47 the National Sports Collectors Convention,

01:17:50 I think it's what it's called.

01:17:52 - It's referred to as just the national.

01:17:55 - Oh, the national.

01:17:56 - In the community, that's what they call it.

01:17:58 - All right, so if the national comes your way,

01:18:00 yeah, I would recommend it.

01:18:01 It's worth like, even if you don't collect any,

01:18:03 'cause I don't collect stuff like that.

01:18:05 I don't care that much about collecting.

01:18:08 The idea of like having Mike Trout's first MLB game ticket

01:18:12 is of no interest to me.

01:18:14 If you gave it to me for free,

01:18:15 I would just be like, thanks, I guess.

01:18:17 And I don't even know if I would,

01:18:19 I might just throw it away.

01:18:20 Like, I don't know.

01:18:21 I wouldn't now.

01:18:22 Now that I know it's worth $9,000, I wouldn't.

01:18:24 But yeah, so my brain's just not really wired that way.

01:18:27 So I didn't really know what to expect.

01:18:30 And then, yeah, I got there.

01:18:31 And I was like, this is really cool,

01:18:32 even for someone like me who doesn't really collect stuff.

01:18:36 But that's pretty crazy.

01:18:37 I actually bumped into a couple people I knew

01:18:40 and talked to them.

01:18:40 We ran into, it got cut,

01:18:42 but we ran into Jake Marshall's dad.

01:18:44 He was there.

01:18:46 Yeah.

01:18:46 - Interesting.

01:18:47 - That was funny, yeah.

01:18:48 He said that he was looking for, if I remember correctly,

01:18:52 he goes, this convention kind of sucks this year.

01:18:54 And we're like, well, why does it suck?

01:18:56 And he goes, they don't have what I want.

01:18:59 We said, well, what do you want?

01:19:00 And he goes, I'm looking for bases

01:19:02 from like the 1960s or 1970s.

01:19:05 And we're like, oh yeah, of course.

01:19:06 I think that section was over there,

01:19:08 the MLB bases from 1970.

01:19:13 So he went with a very specific thing in mind

01:19:17 and couldn't find it and was disappointed.

01:19:20 But no, it was cool.

01:19:22 Go watch the video.

01:19:22 I thought the video turned out well, too.

01:19:24 Shout out Zupi for editing it.

01:19:26 It was pretty good.

01:19:28 It was Brandon's stupid idea

01:19:30 and I didn't really have high hopes.

01:19:32 And I showed up and I was like,

01:19:33 this thing does not seem fun at all.

01:19:35 And then it ended up being fun

01:19:36 and the video turned out well.

01:19:37 So Brandon's a visionary.

01:19:39 - I usually feel like, I guess,

01:19:42 a big dumb idiot for gassing Brandon up for no reason,

01:19:47 because it goes straight to his head

01:19:48 and then he turns into a God complex type character.

01:19:51 But I thought the video was great.

01:19:53 Like, I don't know, I wasn't even expecting.

01:19:56 You texted me on Thursday and said,

01:19:57 we're going to this thing.

01:19:58 I didn't even know that there was a video coming out of it.

01:20:00 And then I got the video on Friday and I was like,

01:20:03 Brandon doesn't normally mesh well with other,

01:20:06 like he doesn't play well with other kids.

01:20:07 (laughing)

01:20:09 But you guys, I mean, everything's been good so far.

01:20:12 I keep getting excited about this new thing

01:20:14 that we're teasing.

01:20:15 - It also got cut from the video,

01:20:17 but in the end I bought that Dale Earnhardt mug.

01:20:21 That didn't get cut, but I bought a mug for $5.

01:20:24 So we asked the guy,

01:20:26 'cause Brandon bought his thing first

01:20:29 and then I had the $10 bill on me.

01:20:32 I really did not expect,

01:20:34 I probably should have brought more money,

01:20:35 but I didn't expect anything to really cost that.

01:20:39 When we walked in and I saw things were like $15,000,

01:20:41 I was like, oh my God, I had no idea what I stepped into.

01:20:44 But I really went with, I went with $10 cash

01:20:47 and I really thought I'd be able to find some good stuff

01:20:49 for $10, like that's what I thought I was going to.

01:20:52 I thought it was like a garage sale.

01:20:55 So we, by the, Brandon buys his thing first,

01:20:58 he puts pressure on me, he's like, you must buy,

01:21:00 you have to buy one thing.

01:21:01 And I was like, I don't know what I'm going to get for $10.

01:21:04 We're walking around this table

01:21:05 that has all this piddly shit.

01:21:07 I find the Dale Earnhardt mug and I lose my mind.

01:21:09 I'm like, oh my God, this thing is awesome.

01:21:11 And I asked the guy how much for this?

01:21:13 And he says five.

01:21:15 And I shit you not, TJ, I thought he meant 500.

01:21:18 I was like, damn, I guess, I guess it is a pretty sick mug.

01:21:22 I was like, eh, that's good.

01:21:23 And then Brandon's like, just to be,

01:21:25 Brandon's like, hold on, hold on, hold on.

01:21:26 Do you mean five or do you mean 500?

01:21:28 And the guy started laughing, he's like, $5.

01:21:30 Why would I mean 500?

01:21:31 And I was like, wait, no shit?

01:21:32 So I had collector brain by the end of it

01:21:36 where I just assumed everything was like $500.

01:21:39 I just like, you know, the fact that they had this mug

01:21:42 just sitting there for $5, I was very, very happy.

01:21:45 So I came out a big winner.

01:21:47 Did you guys get to see Darren Revell's exhibit?

01:21:49 No, I actually was looking for it though.

01:21:51 I was, I was walking around

01:21:53 'cause I had heard that he was there with his exhibit.

01:21:56 Was he selling stuff or was he just--

01:22:00 I think he was just showing off.

01:22:01 Yeah, it feels like a Revell move to just take his collection

01:22:04 and just like post up and flex and just say like,

01:22:07 none of this is for sale. Some of the stuff is cool.

01:22:09 Like having like the vest from Ferris Bueller's Day Off.

01:22:12 That's pretty, that's pretty cool.

01:22:14 But some of it is like the most random celebrity merch

01:22:18 or like tickets from like random games

01:22:21 that he didn't go to where I'm like,

01:22:23 I guess that this is valuable because you paid for it.

01:22:26 But like a ticket to a game that you didn't go to

01:22:30 that you don't care about.

01:22:31 Or like he had like Bruce Springsteen's

01:22:33 health insurance card.

01:22:34 I'm like, how did you even get this?

01:22:36 And also, why do you want it?

01:22:37 Like what's the--

01:22:38 He had, well, that was when he got the,

01:22:41 didn't he get the sign in book to like when MLK was,

01:22:44 or was it Rosa Parks?

01:22:44 Yeah, he has like receipts from like--

01:22:46 Putting prisoners up there.

01:22:47 Bar or like from like a jail's like receipt

01:22:51 that like MLK signed or something.

01:22:53 I'm like, whoa, that's cool, I guess.

01:22:56 Like that contributes to his over nine pieces

01:22:59 of MLK signed memorabilia that he brags about on Twitter.

01:23:02 I don't understand the, yeah, the ticket

01:23:05 if you didn't go to the game.

01:23:06 I mean, that part was weird to me.

01:23:08 That's what I said about the mic.

01:23:09 If you would have handed me a mic trial ticket

01:23:10 before I'd gone to this convention,

01:23:12 I would have thrown it away.

01:23:13 I just would have been like,

01:23:14 that's cool that you have it, man.

01:23:15 Like I'm not gonna do anything with it.

01:23:16 Are you sure you don't wanna keep it?

01:23:17 Like I don't know what I'm gonna do with this.

01:23:19 But now--

01:23:20 That's one of my great gripes with modern society.

01:23:23 Like you and PFT talked about QR code menus

01:23:26 is digital tickets.

01:23:27 Yeah.

01:23:28 'Cause I have probably 90% of the ticket,

01:23:31 like physical tickets of events I've ever gone to.

01:23:34 Oh, that's awesome.

01:23:34 Going back to when I was like five or six.

01:23:37 Dude, get a, sell 'em.

01:23:37 Like 2002 or three.

01:23:39 Get 'em ready to take to the National.

01:23:40 Dude, you can clean up.

01:23:41 That's what I learned.

01:23:42 'Cause I have LeBron, I have a ticket to LeBron's

01:23:46 last game in Cleveland when they got swept by the Warriors,

01:23:49 game four, I went to that finals game.

01:23:51 And I remember thinking that might be his last game,

01:23:54 I should hold onto the ticket.

01:23:55 I don't know why, I don't collect anything.

01:23:57 I threw it in my junk drawer in my kitchen.

01:23:59 I was just like, I'm gonna throw this ticket in here.

01:24:01 I don't wanna throw it away, but I'm just gonna hold onto it.

01:24:04 Now I'm thinking I should take it back

01:24:05 to the National Convention and get,

01:24:08 you can get five grand for that, I don't know.

01:24:09 I don't know how much money you get for that.

01:24:11 Maybe, I'm probably--

01:24:12 It's a lost medium now.

01:24:13 There's no more physical tickets.

01:24:15 That's crazy.

01:24:16 I also had a thought of, if you wanted to rob that place,

01:24:22 what are you robbing?

01:24:23 Like what's the--

01:24:24 (laughing)

01:24:26 My mind went there, where I was like,

01:24:27 what's the Ocean's 11 of the National Sports Collectors--

01:24:30 You don't go after the diamonds,

01:24:31 you go after the chandelier that's priceless.

01:24:34 I go after a baseball glove.

01:24:36 I go after the bases from the 1970s.

01:24:39 There's some glove that, some bat signed by Pete Rose.

01:24:45 Yeah, it was fun.

01:24:46 Go watch the video.

01:24:48 Brandon will cry if you don't, so please go do that.

01:24:51 What else?

01:24:52 Any other shout outs?

01:24:52 I saw Barbie Oppenheimer.

01:24:55 Nicole and I talked about Barbie, obviously.

01:24:57 I really did enjoy Barbie a lot.

01:24:58 Oppenheimer fucking ruled.

01:25:00 Oppenheimer was awesome.

01:25:01 It was a little long.

01:25:03 I had to piss.

01:25:04 That sucks.

01:25:05 There's nothing worse than that to like,

01:25:06 I don't wanna be the guy that complains

01:25:08 about it being too long because that sounds

01:25:10 like I was bored by it.

01:25:11 I was not.

01:25:12 I was very into it.

01:25:13 But TJ, I took every precaution possible.

01:25:16 I pissed right when I got to the theater.

01:25:19 I pissed, this theater waited like 10 minutes

01:25:23 to start the previews even.

01:25:25 So like even, it was supposed to start at,

01:25:28 say it was supposed to start at seven.

01:25:29 It was like 7.14 when the previews even started.

01:25:32 So I'm through like 15 minutes of previews

01:25:35 and I was like, you know what I'm gonna go do?

01:25:36 I'm gonna go piss again.

01:25:37 I'm gonna be proactive about this.

01:25:38 But I think I did like the break the seal deal

01:25:41 where I just got into a habit of like pissing

01:25:43 every 30 minutes, every 45 minutes.

01:25:47 So at the end of Oppenheimer, I'm like,

01:25:49 and the ending was awesome.

01:25:51 The ending of Oppenheimer was fucking,

01:25:52 like the whole movie was great.

01:25:53 But, oh God, I had to piss so bad

01:25:57 and I don't wanna leave.

01:25:57 And I'm like, I don't know.

01:25:59 It was very frustrating.

01:26:00 It was very, so I'd love to see it again.

01:26:02 Maybe this time I'll go piss in the middle of it

01:26:05 'cause I've already seen it.

01:26:06 But I really, really enjoyed Oppenheimer.

01:26:08 But I did it.

01:26:08 I did the Barbenheimer double, as they say.

01:26:12 I went to Barbie in the morning

01:26:13 and Oppenheimer later that night.

01:26:15 I didn't do like a true like stay at the theater

01:26:17 all at once type deal.

01:26:19 Yeah, so anyway.

01:26:21 I don't know if I'm built for that.

01:26:22 I haven't seen a movie since I worked at a movie theater.

01:26:24 Like I haven't been to a theater since I worked at one

01:26:26 just 'cause I wasn't even scarred from it.

01:26:28 I was just exhausted by the concept.

01:26:30 But there was a good five or six year stretch

01:26:34 when I was growing up where I didn't make it

01:26:36 through a single movie without falling asleep

01:26:39 for an hour of it.

01:26:40 I was just wasting my parents' money essentially

01:26:42 or my own money going to a movie.

01:26:44 - Dude, this is a series you should do for Barstool

01:26:48 is like go to premieres for movies and try to fall asleep.

01:26:51 You're right.

01:26:53 - I mean, it's the ultimate sleeping environment.

01:26:55 It's dark.

01:26:56 It's like a big comfy chair, like snacks.

01:26:59 That's where I want to be asleep most of the time.

01:27:02 - TJ goes to--

01:27:03 - Like ignoring the gigantic speaker system

01:27:05 and like explosions and the huge flashing screen.

01:27:07 - That's what I'm saying.

01:27:08 Like if you could have gone to the Barbie premiere

01:27:11 on the night it came out and fallen asleep,

01:27:15 that's impressive.

01:27:17 I imagine a lot of laughing

01:27:18 and there was laughing in my theater at least.

01:27:20 Yeah, or even Oppenheimer.

01:27:23 Yeah, that's a great series.

01:27:25 I would watch that series.

01:27:26 - I had to see "The Dark Knight Rises" three times

01:27:28 before I like figured out what--

01:27:30 (laughing)

01:27:33 (laughing)

01:27:35 - It was a problem.

01:27:36 I'll admit it.

01:27:37 I was pissed off every time too.

01:27:39 I wasn't even gonna wake up.

01:27:40 - You might wanna wait 'til Oppenheimer comes out

01:27:43 on the streaming and you can just pause it

01:27:45 in the comfort of your own home

01:27:46 and watch it over the course of five days.

01:27:49 - Yeah.

01:27:50 - Chip away at it.

01:27:51 Yeah, I think that's it.

01:27:54 I don't think I have any more shout outs.

01:27:57 Is that it for you?

01:27:57 Are you done?

01:27:59 - I'm 24 hours into 48 hours with no phone case

01:28:02 and I haven't broken it yet.

01:28:04 - Yeah, it's liberating, dude.

01:28:06 I've been seeing no case for a while

01:28:08 and I have broken mine.

01:28:11 I'm at a point now where I just don't think I would care.

01:28:15 I broke it like, I was in Maui actually.

01:28:19 I dropped it in Maui.

01:28:21 It wasn't even my fault.

01:28:22 It was, don't need to get into it,

01:28:24 but I'm getting out of a cab as I got to an airport

01:28:28 and the guy was pulling my bag

01:28:30 and was kind of rushing me out of the cab

01:28:32 and my phone falls off a seat and hits the ground

01:28:35 and I pick it up and it was cracked

01:28:36 and I was so fucking mad 'cause that's the thing.

01:28:40 If you go no case, TJ, everyone's like,

01:28:42 what happens if you drop it?

01:28:43 And I would always look him in the eye

01:28:44 and I would say, I don't.

01:28:45 I just don't drop it.

01:28:46 I just simply do not drop it.

01:28:48 And now I have a cracked phone,

01:28:50 but it's not my fault technically

01:28:52 'cause it was this other dude.

01:28:54 I guess it is your fault.

01:28:55 I guess that's how it works.

01:28:56 I have to be more protective of my things,

01:28:58 but I felt like it was this other guy's fault.

01:29:01 But long story short, the second it cracked,

01:29:03 I was like, I have to immediately.

01:29:05 I started looking up.

01:29:06 I was like, should I move my flight

01:29:07 'cause I can go to Apple Store in Maui

01:29:09 and get a new phone?

01:29:09 I have to get the new phone immediately.

01:29:11 We have to get this fixed.

01:29:13 And that was like, I don't know.

01:29:15 That was what, seven, eight months ago?

01:29:17 And I just don't care.

01:29:17 So I don't know.

01:29:19 I don't know.

01:29:20 - I drop my phone a lot in my sleep.

01:29:22 So I don't know if you can--

01:29:24 (laughing)

01:29:25 Like I'll hit the snooze button with my eyes closed

01:29:28 and just yank the phone off of my dresser.

01:29:31 - Oh no.

01:29:31 - Like here.

01:29:32 Wake up to it hitting the ground.

01:29:34 Be like, ooh.

01:29:35 - I was trying to encourage you.

01:29:37 I was trying to encourage you just to say

01:29:38 that if you do drop it, it's not the end of the world.

01:29:40 'Cause I thought a cracked screen

01:29:42 would just be the worst thing ever.

01:29:43 And as it turns out, I don't know.

01:29:45 I was like, I don't really care that much.

01:29:47 The inconvenience of having a cracked screen

01:29:50 is less than the inconvenience of having to go

01:29:53 to an Apple store and have the dorks that work at Apple.

01:29:56 Like, hey, welcome in.

01:29:57 How can we help you today?

01:29:58 I guess I could buy one online.

01:29:59 - That is true.

01:30:00 The Apple store has been ruined since the pandemic.

01:30:03 - Oh my God, dude.

01:30:04 - You have to make an appointment to go to the Apple store

01:30:06 to like buy a phone case now.

01:30:07 I'm like, I don't know.

01:30:08 You have to like wait 45 minutes in line to buy a charger.

01:30:12 - And I know everyone listening is like,

01:30:13 why don't you just buy one online?

01:30:14 And the answer is, did you not hear me and PFT

01:30:17 bitching about how we're old men?

01:30:19 I wanna go, I wanna hand currency over

01:30:21 and I wanna take my product home with me.

01:30:23 Okay, I don't, the phone, I need to hold the phone

01:30:25 in my hand before I buy it.

01:30:26 I don't wanna just buy one online.

01:30:28 I don't know, that's just something about me.

01:30:30 So--

01:30:31 - Sometimes I like going to the mall too.

01:30:33 There's something liberating about walking around

01:30:36 a bunch of stores inside.

01:30:38 - What's your go-to, it's still July.

01:30:41 The calendar turns to August.

01:30:42 We gotta get a little more serious once we get to August.

01:30:45 We can't have fun on the podcast anymore.

01:30:47 - Right.

01:30:48 - But while it's still July and we're here,

01:30:50 what's your go-to store when you go to the mall?

01:30:52 You're 16 years old, you just got dropped off at the mall.

01:30:57 What's the store you're like, I gotta go,

01:30:59 I gotta make sure I swing by this store before--

01:31:02 - It's always a stop in the GameStop, obviously.

01:31:05 - GameStop's a good answer, yeah.

01:31:09 - I don't know, I like a good toy store.

01:31:11 Those are kind of gone.

01:31:13 - Yeah.

01:31:13 - But anywhere where I can look at stuff

01:31:15 and poke around at stuff.

01:31:17 - Yeah.

01:31:18 - Like, hey, should I buy this?

01:31:18 Probably not, but.

01:31:20 - I would always go to Finish Line and then,

01:31:24 I could never afford new shoes,

01:31:26 but I was always just like, look at what the cool kids had.

01:31:28 I'm like, oh, that's sick, dude, those sneakers.

01:31:30 - Maybe try a pair on and do a lap around the store

01:31:32 just to see how it feels.

01:31:33 - Yeah, and then Spencer Gifts, obviously.

01:31:36 You gotta go to Spencer Gifts when you're in high school

01:31:38 and you gotta just look at the--

01:31:41 - Look into the back.

01:31:42 - The sex dice and the, oh my God.

01:31:45 - Penis ice tray, should we get this?

01:31:47 - This shirt says 4/20, do you see this?

01:31:49 This is crazy. (laughs)

01:31:51 Holy shit, that's the weed number.

01:31:53 All right, that's the show.

01:31:56 Thank you to Nicole Auerbach for coming on.

01:31:58 Thank you guys for listening and watching.

01:31:59 We will be back on Thursday, see ya.

01:32:02 (upbeat music)

01:32:05 [BLANK_AUDIO]

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