00:00The Cavs do come home to play the Mavs tonight,
00:03at least as scheduled right now.
00:04We'll see if anything changes.
00:06And last night was a game that I don't know.
00:12I think last night was somewhat of a litmus test game for the Cavs
00:15because, A, you had beaten the Knicks earlier in the week
00:19for the first time like it felt like in forever.
00:21And it was a good win.
00:23And you sort of felt better about the team this week because of that.
00:27And with all the pressure mounting against Kenny Atkinson
00:30and all these things, it was like, okay, this puts some of that to bed.
00:33So you felt pretty good about it.
00:35Then you get the Heat on Friday.
00:37And, you know, the Heat looked different this year.
00:39They have Giannis, all these things.
00:42They've changed around their roster certainly.
00:46And so this is a team that you're kind of measuring yourself against.
00:48Also kind of having some early season like ups and downs.
00:51They're 6-6 now.
00:53You're 6-7 now after the loss.
00:55But it felt like this was going to be an important one to sort of like
00:58measure yourself against another good team in the Eastern Conference.
01:01It was also an NBA Cup game if you're into that kind of thing.
01:05Or I guess the Emirates Cup if you're into that kind of thing.
01:08And I'll be honest, there were certainly reasons why last night was disappointing.
01:14I mean, you give up 38 in the third quarter and 41 in the fourth quarter,
01:17like not great.
01:18But I also felt like I kind of walked away from last night, Megs,
01:23feeling with more positive things to take away than negative.
01:27Even though I think the general sense around this team remains,
01:31we just don't know what version of the Cavs are going to get on any given night.
01:35Is that a fair assessment?
01:36Like that kind of feels like where we're at with this team?
01:38Yeah, I think so.
01:39And we had a good conversation on the show yesterday.
01:41Just how early it is.
01:44And I'm actually like okay with this because I think in my opinion,
01:49like last night specifically, the positives totally outweigh the negatives
01:52because the positives here are that these young players on this team are fantastic.
01:57They're fantastic.
01:58And with the new way that the NBA is structured with the second apron
02:03and all that stuff, your draft picks have to hit.
02:05And Tyrese Proctor is looking like he's hitting as a draft pick.
02:08Like Malik Thomas looks like a freaking star.
02:11Reminds me of a young Megs in high school.
02:14Just getting after this unlimited confidence, just in the gym type range.
02:18No, I'm just kidding there.
02:19That guy is just oozing with confidence in himself.
02:23But Proctor is the big one to me because he was a guy who, you know,
02:26you take him last year, great college player, comes out of Duke.
02:29And then really doesn't get a chance last year.
02:31And maybe it was a development thing or just he was never really on the court.
02:34And when he was on the court, looked like a rookie.
02:36And now he comes out this year just a totally different sense to himself of belief,
02:41a sense of excitement to himself.
02:43I mean, 7-9 from the field, 5-7 from three, 22 points, three assists.
02:49Yeah, I think at one point like 11 points in a row or 12 points in a row.
02:52It just got on one of those microwaves where he just heated up a little bit
02:56and was really good.
02:57So, yes, you don't want to lose the fourth quarter by 13 points or 11 points
03:02and lose the game and have that be the difference and all that stuff.
03:05And I think that comes with time.
03:06And as James Harden works his way into shape, I think they're going to be fine.
03:09But the positives here, in my opinion, are these young players are playing really well,
03:15gaining a lot of confidence and showing that they belong and they deserve, you know,
03:18to be on the court a lot.
03:19Yeah, like the young guys are certainly the first thing I wrote down as a positive
03:23from this game.
03:25And, like, Malik and Proctor in particular, they had an alley-oop in the first half.
03:30Yeah.
03:30And I was like, I think it was the first quarter, like towards the end of the first quarter.
03:34And it was one of those moments where you're like, oh, man, like these two together could
03:38be something special.
03:39And it's like Kenny has made a point already.
03:43And those guys have gotten increased minutes because they play hard.
03:46Yes.
03:46And he called out the veterans after the one game, what was it, the Charlotte loss, where
03:50he was like, hey, shout out to these young guys for actually, like, giving effort.
03:54And that was, like, kind of the first time we'd seen him, like, hold guys accountable
03:57in that way.
03:58Yeah.
03:58And so that was encouraging to see.
04:00Like, those guys are seeing minutes and playing together because they are forcing Kenny's
04:04hand and they're making the most of it.
04:07Like, I'm excited about those two.
04:09I think that was a huge positive from last night.
04:12We got to talk, though, about, like, Donovan Mitchell and James Harden are just not,
04:16these scorers that they once were.
04:19And it's hard because this, and we also got to talk about just this team in general and
04:23the hot and coldness to them, the bipolarness to them, because there's a lot that's kind
04:28of going on there with them.
04:30And it's like every night you don't know what you're going to get.
04:32And I'm curious where you stand on, like, how much of this is about it being early in
04:38the season and how much of this is about who they really are.
04:41Because there is some truth to the former point.
04:43But it's also the stretch of the season, the beginning here, where you're playing all
04:47these teams that you're going to get measured against, including last night against the
04:50Miami Heat.
04:50I feel every one of these games is, like, in a microscope because of how the season started,
05:00because of, you know, Kenny being on the hot seats, because of the expectations.
05:06And I wonder where fans are at with this team.
05:10Because they won on Wednesday.
05:11Yeah.
05:11And I think it was a nice, sort of, like, calming everybody down game and moment.
05:18A palate cleanser is maybe a good way to put it.
05:20But then you go out on Friday, and it's like they keep doing this thing where, like,
05:23they win a big game, and then they lose a game that they shouldn't.
05:26Or they lose a game that you think, like, they should win or be a bit more competitive in
05:31or whatever.
05:33And I'm trying to find that balance between, well, it's early season, how much of this
05:39actually matters, because the team's going to feel different and, like, figure themselves
05:43out as things go on, and how much doesn't.
05:47But what's hard with this Cavs team is, like, they play all the teams they're measuring
05:51themselves against early in the season.
05:53They play the Thunder twice.
05:54They play the Spurs coming up either later this month or early December.
05:57They play the Knicks already twice.
05:59They play them again in late November.
06:02They played the 76ers twice.
06:04They played the Heat last night.
06:05Like, they have such an onslaught of games here early on against teams that matter that
06:12I just wonder where fans are kind of at with this.
06:16Like, are they having patience?
06:17Because every time they lose a game that you feel like they shouldn't, or when they
06:21lose to the Hornets on Monday like they did, it is, like, full-fledged panic from
06:25this team.
06:26Like, I don't feel good about...
06:28Like, I think with every game, it's like Kenny's almost, like, trying to gain traction
06:33back and keeping his job.
06:35And then the next game, it's like, okay, how far back is he going to fall to being on the
06:39hot seat?
06:39Sure.
06:40And I'd like to push back just a little bit, because I do have...
06:43I have a general thought in all of this.
06:45First and foremost, I think it's so early.
06:48I think it's so early in this season, especially with them being now a veteran team, I would say,
06:53with Harden being old.
06:54Jared Allen's been there for a while.
06:56Donovan's been here now.
06:57It's his fifth year.
06:58You know, so it's like, all right, these guys are a little bit older.
07:01They are going to peak at the right time.
07:03Or at least hope to.
07:04We were talking about it yesterday.
07:06The playoffs are six months away.
07:08Like, six...
07:09Half a calendar year that it's like, hey, when they...
07:12Hopefully, in that time frame, that they can, you know, start to flip and turn stuff around.
07:18Second thing, Jeremy, and here's, I think, maybe a broader point here with just the current state of the NBA.
07:24There's a lot of really good teams.
07:27There's a lot of stardom in this league, and there's a lot of really good teams.
07:30You just look at the Eastern Conference.
07:31The Celtics are at the top of the conference, which they feel like they have a beachfront property at the
07:37top of the Eastern Conference.
07:39Because every single year, it feels like they're at the top of it.
07:42And that's a credit to Tatum and all those guys.
07:44And then the 76ers are right behind them, although they just got blown out by the Celtics earlier in the
07:49week.
07:49And then the Pistons with Cade Cunningham.
07:51The Hawks are mostly like a team that's built together.
07:54They don't have, like, the major star.
07:56They're just a great team.
07:57And then the Heat have Giannis.
07:58The New York Knicks just won the championship.
08:00The Cavs are in seventh place.
08:01They're three games back of being in third place.
08:04So it's like you're right in it.
08:05But the Cavs are there.
08:07The Raptors have Kawhi.
08:09You know, that takes you to the top eight.
08:10The top eight teams are awesome.
08:12They're loaded, and there's stardom everywhere.
08:13You go to the Western Conference, and it's more of the same.
08:16It's Wemby with the Spurs, Luka with the Lakers, KD with the Rockets.
08:20The Trailblazers may be one of the best teams.
08:21And, like, that's 12 teams right there.
08:23The league has 30 of them, right?
08:24So it's like every team is, in my opinion, pretty damn good.
08:28And you got the Timberwolves with Ant.
08:30You got Memphis led by Ty Jerome, who's a superstar right now.
08:34Yeah, he's gone.
08:35And then the Golden State Warriors are the seventh seed.
08:38And they might be – it looks like young Steph again.
08:41I know he's going to be out for a month.
08:42But Oklahoma City's the eighth seed.
08:45It looks like young Steph again.
08:46I know he's going to be out for a month.
08:47Denver?
08:48Denver's the tenth seed right now, or the ninth seed.
08:50And they might win the whole thing, you know?
08:52So it's like the stardom in this NBA is off the charts.
08:55I mean, listen, the talent is spread out.
08:57And it's not that I expect the Cavs to, like, blow everybody out or whatever.
09:01But, like, it is – I don't know.
09:03They're in a weird spot right now.
09:05And I think fans are so – there's a lot of –
09:10Scar tissue.
09:11Yeah.
09:12That's a good way to put it.
09:13It is.
09:13And it's like every game is emotional, I think, for Cavs fans, like, in some way or another.
09:18There's no in-between right now.
09:20You can't, like, lose a game and walk away.
09:24Like, there's, like – you know how we talk about, like, moral victories, which don't really exist, like, in the
09:29locker room, obviously?
09:30Yeah.
09:31But outside the locker room, I don't even think there's, like, moral victories right now.
09:35There's no, oh, well, they played them really close.
09:38It's, no, what was the final result?
09:40And I think that's just based off of – and part of this is, like, of their own doing.
09:45They've told us the expectation is that they're a championship-caliber team, so they're going to be held to that
09:49standard.
09:51And so every night, it's like everything's in a microscope.
09:53Now, I will say, I walked away last night personally feeling like there were some positives that came out of
10:02that game in a loss.
10:03Obviously, you didn't have Evan.
10:04I don't know what it is with toe injuries.
10:06This year, there's a pandemic going on.
10:08But, yeah, I mean, last year it was Darius.
10:10This year, it's Evan.
10:13Denzel Boston's dealing with a toe injury right now.
10:14Tyler Huntley's out for the season with turf, though.
10:16Yeah, like, what the heck, man?
10:18But so you didn't have Evan, and that plays a role in this because, like, he's obviously one of your
10:22best players
10:24and one of your better defenders when it comes to, like, guarding a two-big lineup that the Heat throw
10:28out there.
10:28So, fine.
10:29But, you know, I felt really good, as we talked about, about the young guys.
10:33I felt really good about Tyrese Proctor and Malik Thomas and the way that they played off of each other
10:39and with each other.
10:40Yeah.
10:41I felt really good about Jalen Tyson, who's kind of found his stroke again.
10:44He was 4-7 last night from three.
10:46He had 16 points.
10:47He looked pretty positive.
10:50There were some negatives in this as well.
10:52Peyton Watson.
10:54Like, that's the thing.
10:54I don't know if people are going to, because of where this Cavs team is, because of what the expectation
11:00is,
11:00there's no patience for Peyton Watson.
11:02Like, his offense is still finding itself.
11:04He's been awesome on the defensive end.
11:06But on the offensive end, like, he's still trying to figure out his role and, like, where he fits into
11:10this thing.
11:11And he was bad last night.
11:120-5 from three, 2-10 from the field.
11:15He had four points.
11:17And it's like, nobody has patience for him.
11:19And then the other thing that's really concerning is Donovan Mitchell and James Harden just, at their age, are not
11:26the...
11:28They just can't get to the basket and score as easily as they used to.
11:33Now, the flip side of that is that Donovan has kind of transformed himself into a guy that can facilitate
11:41a little bit more.
11:42And he had seven assists last night.
11:44So, like, he's found a way to sort of make himself make the right play at times rather than having
11:51to attack, which maybe that's a good thing.
11:53Yeah.
11:54But him being on this team and being paid like he is, like, he's supposed to be your stone-cold
11:57killer.
11:58And I agree with that.
11:59And I think early in the season, you're encouraged by, you know, him trying to do it in different ways
12:07and knowing that, hey, I'm going to try some different things.
12:09And maybe the ball's not dropping right now.
12:11But, you know, he's still shooting with good volume.
12:13And when it is going in, he does have that.
12:15He has a little bit of that microwave, too, when he does get hot that he can start to really
12:19fill it up.
12:20The other part of this, too, Germ, and I'm going to keep saying it because I do...
12:25We're on different sides of this coin because it's so early.
12:28They have 69 games left.
12:29They have 69 games left.
12:31I hope that Peyton Watson, over the course of 69 games, can figure out, you know, how to go on
12:37offense a little bit.
12:38And you can get some of those guys playing a little bit more consistently.
12:41Yeah, man.
12:42I hope so, too.
12:43But I also wonder, like, if this opening stretch of the season and schedule is just going to, in a
12:50lot of people's minds, like, bury the Cavs.
12:52Like, if they're just going to use this opening stretch where they're playing all these good teams and be like,
12:57well, we saw how they really do against these teams.
12:59And then everything else that comes after that just isn't going to matter.
13:01Like, the whole...
13:03I always hate every year we start with the, well, nothing matters until April anyway conversation.
13:09But with this team, it feels like that is, like, truly what...
13:14That's truly the sort of cloud that's going to follow them all year.
13:18They're going to be followed by this ghost of, until you get to the spring, until you get to April
13:23and May, nothing else matters.
13:24Yeah, nothing matters.
13:25And so, if you go into, if you're the seventh seed into the tournament, it doesn't matter until you play
13:30the Knicks again.
13:30And you're on MSG, and it's the series is 0-0.
13:34And it doesn't matter if you're five games over 500 or 25 games over 500 to get there.
13:40Where nothing matters until you're playing the Knicks again, or you're going to the Boston Garden in April to try
13:47to beat the Celtics,
13:47or you're going to Philly to try to take LeBron down in June in the Eastern Conference Finals.
13:52Like, that's...
13:52Unfortunately, like, all of this is, you know, it is going to be a long year.
13:57They're going to go through some ups and downs, but it's not really going to matter to them.
