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00:00Get two questions right in two seconds each and you're eating free Mr. Hero.
00:04216-474-0092.
00:05So, yesterday, let me give you some background here.
00:10Yesterday, the clip was going around the internet of Colin Cowherd reacting to the A.J. Ross report
00:15that basically Shador Sanders just wanted to make up his own plays and put him in here.
00:20Here's Cowherd.
00:22CBS Sports reporter A.J. Ross covered the Brown Saints on Sunday.
00:26That person reported that Todd Munkin, Coach of the Brown, asked Shador,
00:30what do you want to go through with our opening script of the game?
00:35Shador started suggesting plays they didn't have in their playbook.
00:39What?
00:40Todd Munkin's like, okay, what do you want to do opening script?
00:43On the road, big game, 12 plays.
00:46Shador's like, I got a couple.
00:48Munkin, according to the story, said, no, no, no, no, no, no.
00:50Stuff we've practiced.
00:52Stuff we have in our system.
00:56So, Lima brought this up Monday and Tuesday, and I just kept going because that happens.
01:03Not, they suggest plays that they've ran.
01:06You go up to a guy who has been a backup.
01:09What are you comfortable with?
01:11I'm comfortable with this, this, this, this, this.
01:13Okay, we're going to make sure we run all these things.
01:15Then we might open it up a little bit.
01:17What are you kind of comfortable with?
01:18Like, you try to make your quarterback comfortable.
01:20And when you brought that up Monday and Tuesday, that's what I thought you were referencing.
01:23That's why I was like, this isn't in my head.
01:25I just kept moving quickly.
01:26It wasn't a big deal.
01:27I'm sure you were a little bit perturbed by it.
01:29And again, no, you guys all say that Cleveland media is against a guy.
01:33Nobody in Cleveland media brought it up with Todd.
01:35Nobody in Cleveland media brought it up on a show from what I heard.
01:39And he brought up that this AJ Ross thing is like a serious thing.
01:42I did not hear the report.
01:44I have the TV on low.
01:46I have Andrew, Nathan, and Gerard up high.
01:49That is not a plug.
01:51That is true.
01:52Because there's, every time there's a tackle eligible, you rarely hear it on TV.
01:57You always hear it on the radio.
01:58You always hear it on the radio.
02:00There's other things that you just pick up on the radio that you don't get on the national broadcast.
02:04Well, they have to have the sound up on the radio or else, you know, you wouldn't know because you
02:07can't see anything.
02:08You got to turn it up and rip the knob off too.
02:10And so, I wanted to know for a fact, because if this is absolutely true and he is serious about
02:15this,
02:16then it changes everything I've really thought about Shador Sanders, to be honest with you.
02:20If this is a joke, then, hey, let's ease up here.
02:26So, I want to know.
02:27You have the AJ Ross clip.
02:28I do.
02:29This was late in the third quarter.
02:31Late third.
02:31So, they had just had a penalty called.
02:34So, they're in that, they're in that moment in a game where they're trying to kind of fill the space
02:39between the referee turning his mic on to announce what the penalty was.
02:45Okay.
02:45And, you know, getting back into the gameplay and all that.
02:48So, they've got a little bit of time to fill.
02:50That's when they usually go to their sideline reporters.
02:54So, Andrew Catalone threw it down to AJ Ross after this penalty late in the third.
02:592-16 left in the third quarter.
03:02This was her report on Shador and the plays that he would like to run.
03:08Oh, Andrew, it was interesting talking to Todd Munkin yesterday in that he said Shador Sanders, of course, has a
03:13ton of confidence.
03:14He has an aura about him.
03:16And he is not someone to mince words as far as what he likes and doesn't like when it comes
03:20to plays.
03:20And Munkin also was laughing when he said he asked Shador, you know, what do you want to go through
03:25with the opening script?
03:26And Shador was actually suggesting plays they didn't have in her playbook.
03:29He was like, no, no, no, some of the plays that we like, that we already have in our system.
03:32What do you like?
03:33And that's the type of guy Shador is, guys.
03:40Thoughts?
03:43Let me hear it one more time.
03:44Can I hear it one more time?
03:45Audio courtesy of CBS.
03:46Let me hear it one more time.
03:47Oh, Andrew, it was interesting talking to Todd Munkin yesterday in that he said Shador Sanders, of course, has a
03:52ton of confidence.
03:53He has an aura about him.
03:55And he is not someone to mince words as far as what he likes and doesn't like when it comes
03:59to plays.
04:00And Munkin also was laughing when he said he asked Shador, you know, what do you want to go through
04:04with the opening script?
04:05And Shador was actually suggesting plays they didn't have in her playbook.
04:08He was like, no, no, some of the plays that we like, that we already have in our system.
04:11What do you like?
04:12And that's the type of guy Shador is, guys.
04:14Now, he said, or she said in the report that Munkin was laughing when he told the story to A
04:23.J. Ross.
04:23So, if he said this, now I've heard it.
04:29I don't think this is as serious as Colin Cowherd makes it out to be.
04:33Yeah, when Colin says it, he has that tone.
04:36He says it in terms of this is we have reached DEFCON 1 here.
04:41This is why I wanted to hear it.
04:44It's because if Todd thought it was that damn big of a deal, I don't think Todd Munkin would have
04:49told A.J. Ross that.
04:51Because he don't want to answer that question later on.
04:52He seemed to present it as an anecdote.
04:54As a joke.
04:55Yes.
04:55And Todd has made jokes before.
04:57But it's definitely happened.
04:59Like, there's no disputing.
05:00If Todd Munkin told her, this definitely happened.
05:03And you did say if it happened, you didn't think it was a very serious thing.
05:06But was he?
05:07Wait a minute, wait a minute.
05:08He said it almost as a joke.
05:10That is true.
05:10She's laughing.
05:11She said, that's just the type of guy Shador is.
05:12She doesn't mean, like, that's the type of guy he is.
05:16He's a bad guy.
05:17That's not what they're saying.
05:18At no point did anybody think Shador was a bad guy because of this.
05:21Can I give you just a little more?
05:23Because they ran a play.
05:24And then, of course, I think Andrew Catalone was like, let me clear up some of this Todd.
05:30Okay.
05:31Shador stuff.
05:32This was right after the next play.
05:34This is Catalone.
05:34You know, A.J., thank you as Judkins makes the catch there.
05:37And a lot when we talked about it, A.J. talked about it with Shador about earlier this week
05:42when he met with the media in Cleveland.
05:43He was smiling when he was asked about the Saints defense.
05:46And Todd Munkin said, look, Shador is a unique individual.
05:50And I think he's misunderstood.
05:52And Todd Munkin said that when he got to Cleveland, he misunderstood Shador.
05:57He said he sees life and football very differently, but he's a wonderful kid.
06:02And Todd has enjoyed spending time with Shador.
06:06And he's hoping that Shador can come up with a third down conversion here on third and long.
06:13I think if Todd thought it was serious, A.J. Ross wouldn't have been able to say that
06:17because he wouldn't have told A.J. Ross.
06:19So, you know, I know that there's Shador truth.
06:22I need to put Ken under the microscope.
06:27Yes, under the life here.
06:30So, you did say that you thought that if he did this, that you weren't taking him very seriously.
06:36If he wasn't interested in the playbook, but this is a joke that Todd Munkin is making.
06:42We are not talking about what Todd Munkin thought of this.
06:44We're talking now about what Ken Carman thinks of this.
06:47But I said in a serious fashion.
06:49If he did it in a serious fashion, that's what I said.
06:52I don't think anybody's disputing that this happened.
06:55But no, no, no, no, no, no.
06:56No, it's not that, but he's making a joke.
06:58He's making a joke.
06:59Yes, Todd is making a joke of it.
07:00But Ken Carman was not making a joke of it when you thought this happened.
07:03Because I thought he was serious when he did it.
07:05He's saying it as a joke.
07:06He's not saying he's serious because if it was serious, A.J. Ross wouldn't have known.
07:10He wouldn't have told A.J. Ross.
07:11Wait, you think now that Shador was joking when he did this?
07:14I think Todd Munkin was joking.
07:16No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
07:17Oh, and do you understand why I'm pressing Ken on this?
07:19Yes, I do.
07:21Like, there is no dispute now whether or not, at least the group inside this room, now it's official.
07:27We believe that Shador did bring this up to the coach.
07:31No, no, no, no, no.
07:33And Todd, even in her report, Todd used it as a way to show how much confidence Shador has in
07:41himself that they could run plays that aren't even in the playbook.
07:46That's what I'm trying to think of here.
07:47Hold on.
07:48You, earlier in the show, you differentiated what you thought Bernie Kosar in drawing the plays in the sand compared
07:53to a quarterback bringing to the coach,
07:57but a couple days before the game or three days before the game, something that had never been practiced and
08:02was not in the installation.
08:03So now, Ken Carman, you've changed your mind because Todd thought it was funny.
08:07Well, to be honest with you, yes, because if Todd thinks it's funny and he's willing to tell A.J.
08:11Ross that he's not going to throw his quarterback under the bus,
08:14he's never going to do that.
08:15Todd ain't stupid.
08:16Sure, but it does.
08:17Todd is not being held against his will with Shador Sanders.
08:20I don't think he's trying to plan anything against Shador Sanders.
08:22So if we're gagging about this, then I don't think it's as serious as Colin Cowherd made it out to
08:27be.
08:28Because when I heard it and then I thought about you bringing it up and went,
08:30holy Toledo, this should have been a bigger deal.
08:32But Cleveland Media hasn't made a big deal about this over the last couple of days.
08:36I did not make a big deal.
08:36You didn't make a big deal about it over the last couple of days.
08:40But you, Ken Carman, made it a bigger deal than anybody I've heard all week in Cleveland Media.
08:48However, you've now changed your stance.
08:50I want to know why you've changed your stance.
08:53I took it as Shador just, the way that Colin Cowherd presents it to me is that Shador went up
09:01and goes,
09:01I like running this, or like, we don't have these plays.
09:03What are you talking about?
09:04Which is what happened, right?
09:05No.
09:06According to what I'm hearing here, Todd Muckin's like, what plays do you like?
09:10And he's like, well, I like this.
09:11And he's like, wait a minute.
09:11No, no, no, no.
09:12The plays that we run.
09:13Oh, okay.
09:14Like, it's one of those things.
09:15I get that it's one of those things.
09:17Do you think it is either, Ken Carman thinks that a quarterback should or shouldn't be introducing plays that are
09:25not installed and have not been practiced?
09:26He should be.
09:27But he's saying he's miscarried.
09:29Or he's saying he's misunderstood.
09:31Kenny, I'm not worried about Todd Muckin right now.
09:34I'm questioning whether you think it's a big deal or you don't think it's a big deal.
09:38As a quarterback did that.
09:39After I just heard that.
09:40No, it shouldn't matter what Todd Muckin said.
09:42Yes, it does.
09:43But you were not hinging that on Todd's reaction.
09:49You were hinging it on, does that happen in a room as a team gets ready for a football game?
09:56I would say that, wait a minute.
09:58Again, I was under the impression.
10:00Boy, you've just become John Ossoff over here, haven't you?
10:03This is incredible.
10:05I was under the impression.
10:07I'd love to be in those committees.
10:08That Shador had went up to him.
10:10Oh, that's your life's dream.
10:11This is potatoes to you.
10:14That Shador, I was under the impression, based on what I heard from Cal Heard, their audio
10:18courtesy FS1, that Shador was like, this is what I like to run.
10:21And they were like, we don't run that.
10:24Oh, this is bad.
10:26That's what I was under the impression of.
10:29But again, I...
10:30Well, Todd was never going to...
10:31Yeah, you are right on one thing.
10:32Todd was never going to introduce this.
10:34If Todd was that...
10:35If he was mad, that mad about it.
10:37If Todd was...
10:38If it came from Todd, and Todd was that alarmed by it, A.J. Ross would have never known about
10:43it.
10:43Now, what do you think...
10:44He wouldn't have said it.
10:45He wouldn't have hinted it.
10:46He wouldn't have done anything.
10:47Don't you think her delivery was some of the reason why you don't think it's as...
10:49Yes!
10:50So, it was a 6-6 game at the time.
10:52Had this been a week before, and it was the way the Pittsburgh game was going, I don't think
10:57her tone would have been the same delivery.
10:59It wouldn't have been laughed at if we were down 38-6 or whatever the score was.
11:03It is late third.
11:04It's a tight situation here.
11:06It's a 6-6 game.
11:06We've got the ball back here.
11:08And they look so atrocious.
11:10It didn't look good.
11:11All they've done is hit...
11:12They had previously hit the Denzel Boston throw.
11:15That was it, really, on offense.
11:19Yeah, now that I've heard A.J. Ross, and I've heard Andrew Catalan, and I've heard Logan Ryan,
11:24and I know you wanted me to go off the hilt, but now that I've heard this, I don't find
11:30it to be as egregious as what Colin Cowherd makes it out to be, Anthony.
11:34I'm sorry.
11:35I'm not sorry.
11:36Do you think it's normal for a quarterback to do that is basically what we're getting at?
11:40No, but I...
11:41Especially somebody who's only had seven starts under one coach.
11:45That coach is gone.
11:46It's a new head coach.
11:48Is that something to you that would surprise you?
11:52Do you think that's standard business for a young quarterback to do that?
11:57Well, you asked me what I'm comfortable with.
11:59If you asked him what he's comfortable with, and maybe he doesn't...
12:01Like, there's always things that I don't necessarily pick up on right when you tell me,
12:05and you guys sit there and go, I can't believe that that happened.
12:06Maybe that's the case with him.
12:08Because if he's running the system, he's running the system.
12:10Maybe he...
12:11If you go, hey, what plays are you comfortable with?
12:14Well, that's an open-ended question.
12:17Oh, geez.
12:20All right.
12:21Do I got to do this?
12:22Well, we've got time.
12:24He is my boss.
12:24I got to take his call.
12:25I'd like to get my paycheck.
12:26Let's go to the YZR.
12:27We make it right.
12:28Call Kyle Wright hotlines.
12:29Direct deposit now.
12:30It's 2026.
12:31That's true.
12:31Hello, Keith.
12:33Hey, I'm just checking procedural.
12:35Does John now need to go back and erase the 620 segment from Rewind and from the podcast?
12:41No.
12:41Are you now not washing your hands of Shador?
12:44No, I'm not.
12:45No, I am not washing my hands of Shador, but he doesn't have to...
12:47Nobody on the internet gets a hold of the clips from the 620.
12:50Oh, whatever.
12:51I don't care.
12:52Nobody out there.
12:53For you people out there that like to grab those clips, don't do that.
12:56Don't go out to 620 and grab anything Ken said because I don't know that he's washing
13:00his hands of Shador now.
13:01Well, I said, I go, if this is true and if this is serious, then yeah, I would have washed
13:05my hands of him.
13:06But I don't take AJ Ross as serious on that, and I don't think that they're saying it as
13:10a serious indictment of Shador Sanders.
13:13Am I not allowed, based on context, to understand and change my mind on something?
13:17I'm not allowed to do that?
13:18The biggest thing is, do we need to go back now and erase all that audio?
13:22No.
13:22Why?
13:23Why would you have to erase the audio?
13:25You won't...
13:25I know how you are.
13:27But I said, if it's true, I would have to wash my hands of Shador.
13:30That's what I said.
13:32You can...
13:32Well, it's true.
13:33What?
13:33It is true.
13:34None of that's false now.
13:35She did tell the story.
13:36Obviously, you know that there's a difference between a joke and a serious thing.
13:39Come on, Keith.
13:40Let's not be obtuse here.
13:43I don't know.
13:44I don't think you guys could rule out, too.
13:45Like, Todd obviously thinks that, like, we all know Shador's personality.
13:50I think he's passing along.
13:51It's like, yeah, it came up as a joking thing and everything.
13:53But the fact that it does happen, like, Shador's been through that.
13:56Though he started how many games last year, like, he's been through with Kevin.
14:00And Kevin doesn't do it any...
14:01All coaches would do the same thing.
14:03Do we know that Kevin...
14:05Kevin might have asked him, but do we know that Kevin asked him?
14:07But they all sit down with their quarterback and say, what are you comfortable with?
14:10And it's all, like, every quarterback would know, what are you comfortable with in our
14:13system?
14:14They're not going to just create the week of the game.
14:16They're not going to just install a new offense.
14:17If he knew that, why would he just come out and say a bunch of plays that he didn't...
14:21knew that they weren't going to run?
14:23He ain't that...
14:24He's not that type of guy.
14:27Maybe he thinks that they would install some stuff just for him because he's their future.
14:33I don't know if we can go that far there, buddy.
14:36You don't think that that thought process probably enters his mind?
14:40That he thinks, hey, maybe this is my chance.
14:42They'll do this.
14:42He has confidence.
14:44I'm going to be a starting quarterback going forward.
14:46Okay, but if he said that, I would say that you're mistaken on this.
14:50We haven't ran plays yet.
14:52So we can't run something we haven't practiced yet, Chador.
14:56So now let's run plays.
14:58And then if I was that concerned, if that was serious, I wouldn't tell A.J. Ross, Keith.
15:03Well, I mean, you and Todd are a little different than that.
15:06Todd doesn't really care to tell anything.
15:09Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.
15:11How are Todd and I different?
15:13If something really concerned me, but I didn't want it to be a big deal because I didn't want
15:16to have to answer that question later on, I don't think I'd joke about it with A.J.
15:19Ross.
15:19I think Todd and I are pretty lockstep on that sort of thing.
15:22There's been plenty instances where we've questioned things that were said this year
15:24and then had to go back on them, right?
15:26Like what?
15:28Further explain them.
15:29Name 10.
15:31Just probably could if I had the time to do it.
15:34No, you don't.
15:35All right.
15:36So, yeah, you can leave up.
15:37I know you won't make a video of this so anybody else can click because I didn't hear the context
15:41of it.
15:41I heard the context of it.
15:42I no longer wash.
15:44I said if it were true, I'd wash my hands.
15:46I don't have to wash my hands.
15:47My hands are still dirty.
15:50Uh-oh.
15:51I got my hand in the dirt, brother.
15:52It's a four-point stance.
15:55That's a Ken Carman classic.
15:57What the F?
15:57I get confused all the time and taking other shows out of context.
16:01I can't say that I heard something out of context from Colin Cowherd.
16:05I can't do that.
16:07I said if it's true, I'm disappointed.
16:11If it's not true, if there's a conversation, they're fine.
16:14But if he felt it was that egregious and that serious, he ain't saying it to A.J. Ross.
16:18Do we not trust Todd Munkin here?
16:21I thought we trusted Todd Munkin.
16:23We don't?
16:24I don't know what Todd.
16:24Everybody says they trust Todd.
16:26I trust Todd.
16:26Until it's time to actually trust Todd.
16:28I don't know what's going on with him not naming Deshaun Watson the quarterback on Sunday night.
16:32I thought that was bizarre.
16:33And I thought every other coach in the NFL would have done that.
16:36That was bizarre to me.
16:37And I stand to that.
16:38Wait a minute.
16:40Well, let me turn around.
16:41If the guy doesn't know necessarily what he's doing, he's still throwing for two.
16:43And I know the first three quarters were not good.
16:45But if you're throwing for 297 and two touchdowns there.
16:48And again, something that I stand by then and now is what did I say?
16:52I think there's a talented quarterback in there.
16:54And if you could get him, what do coaches do?
16:56As Mike Tomlin said, they run towards coaching.
16:58You don't want to give up on that guy.
17:00Why cut that guy?
17:01I'd say you don't want to cut him.
17:02I just said, Deshaun Watson's your starting quarterback.
17:04I don't know how he hasn't named him already and didn't do it on Sunday.
17:08Maybe there was some talent there that's enticing.
17:10I don't know.
17:11I would have named Deshaun Watson the starting quarterback too, but I'm not Todd.
17:13I think everything we saw in that game from Shador are things we saw last year.
17:18Fair enough point.
17:19That's a fair point.
17:20That's a fair point.
17:21I don't begrudge you on that.
17:23Are we ready to play two-second trivia?
17:24We are.
17:26Can we push it back?
17:27Do you want to push it back?
17:29Or do you want to do it next?
17:30It's your call.
17:31Yeah, let's do it at 845.
17:32All right.
17:32Well, let's do two-second trivia at 845 because we're loaded up here.
17:35All right?
17:36And then at 8 o'clock, I'm going to call it on the fly here.
17:39We'll call it in the ring.
17:40At 8 o'clock around the AFC North, we'll welcome in Mo Egger.
17:43We'll welcome in Bob Haney.
17:44We'll welcome in Chris Muller.
17:46We'll go around the AFC North.
17:47We'll get what they would think, what they would actually do.
17:49Being outsiders, what they would do with the starting quarterback of the Bronx.
17:51So, 845, two-second trivia, your chance to eat some free Mr. Hero.
17:56Ken Carman, Anthony Lima, wild, crazy times on the...