- 8 minutes ago
Washington Nationals President of Baseball Operations Paul Toboni joins Grant & Danny for an in-depth conversation about the organization's direction, the progress made in his first year, and what comes next as the Nats look to become legitimate contenders.
Toboni discusses his letter to Nationals fans, the team's rebuilding process, and why he's focused on building a sustainable winner rather than putting a timeline on contention.
Toboni discusses his letter to Nationals fans, the team's rebuilding process, and why he's focused on building a sustainable winner rather than putting a timeline on contention.
Category
🥇
SportsTranscript
00:00Paul Tabone, the president of baseball operations with the Nationals,
00:03was in charge of that philosophical shift.
00:06He sent a letter to fans today updating them on the progress that has been made,
00:10and he joins us right now on the Rude Guest Hotline.
00:14Paul, thanks so much for the time. We really appreciate it. How are you?
00:17Of course, guys. I'm doing well. How are you guys doing?
00:20Good, pal.
00:20Doing great. So we read the letter. We enjoyed it.
00:23I thought a lot of the analysis you had on some of the improvements
00:26and areas where you were very pleased, even some numbers that I didn't have
00:30as much as I tried to dive into those.
00:32So it was awesome intel that you provided on the minor league system and the leaps,
00:36and I thought it was a good window into what you're feeling behind the scenes about your outfit.
00:40Why today, and kind of what was your mindset on wanting to interact with your fan base today?
00:47Yeah, good question. I think, you know, why today?
00:50I think, you know, we're finally past the World Series, entering the window where players are going to start signing,
00:58and I just thought it was a good little window to get with the fans and tell them where my
01:05head's at.
01:05I think the biggest thing, though, like from the get-go, jumping on board last year is, you know,
01:09I just want to be real with the fan base, and I don't want to mislead them.
01:13Like, I don't want a kid listening to me over time and have the thought, like, man, I heard that
01:18last year,
01:19and this is BS, like they didn't follow through on it.
01:21So I just told myself from the start, you know, whether we're winning a ton of games or not,
01:27I want to be real with where we're at, and sometimes that's like facing the music on things that we're
01:34not doing well,
01:34and sometimes it's celebrating some things that we might be doing well or might not be doing well.
01:39But either way, it's, you know, just being transparent with the fans, I think, is an important thing.
01:44I think it's super admirable, and I wish everyone would take a page out of that book, Paul, kind of
01:48to your point.
01:49I think that should be a standard for pro sports teams with people that, you know, it's dollars, it's passion,
01:54it's attention,
01:54it's all those things, that's kind of what keeps this whole, you know, train on the tracks.
01:58To that end, as you've spoken to fans, kind of go out, I thought that one anecdote you had about
02:02the guy that mentioned,
02:03it's actually cool that I'm mad we didn't sweep the Royals.
02:06I thought that was a great little piece there in your letter, but have you kind of heard from fans
02:11about some of the uncertainty they're feeling given the previous several years,
02:15and how do you feel like you addressed that?
02:19More than anything, I think I heard, like, you know, okay, when are we going to be good?
02:24You know what I mean? I think that's what fans want to know.
02:27It's a good question.
02:28Yeah, it's a great question, right?
02:29Yeah, and, like, it's, you know, if I was a, whatever, 15-year-old kid, like, I'd probably be wanting
02:34to know the same exact thing.
02:37And the more I thought about it, I think anyone that says, like, they know, you know, when we're going
02:42to be
02:42playoff-bound, World Series-bound, all those things, like, they're probably just lying to your face.
02:46And so what I can do, I think, is just communicate with everyone, like, hey, we're trying to build this
02:52right.
02:52And I can't tell you whether it's going to be 2027 that we're making a real run, or 2028 or
02:57some other year,
02:58but our game plan is just to do things right over and over and over again.
03:03And then when it comes, hopefully we're playoff-bound every year and we're really rolling.
03:07That answer makes sense to me, because what you're saying is, this is the process, it's going to take time,
03:14and I can't tell you when the results are garnered.
03:17But I do think there is a difference between going for it and not going for it.
03:23And as, like, last offseason, you guys didn't go for it, and you shouldn't have.
03:27But I think when people ask, when are we going to be good, they're not asking you to look into
03:31the crystal ball
03:31and say, when are we going to win 98 games?
03:34What they really mean is, when are we going to try to field a team with a payroll that can
03:40win something meaningful?
03:42And I know the Brewers and the Rays were just in the World Series, but you get the difference between,
03:45hey, the priority is, look at the minor leagues, 463 winning percentage to 531.
03:50We just jumped from 24th to 5th.
03:52That's an amazing accomplishment.
03:54What you guys did with power and home runs is unbelievable.
03:57But I think the question people are really asking is,
04:00when do you get aggressive and actually add major league talent to try to win
04:05rather than to try to build from the ground up?
04:08Yeah.
04:10You know, I can't give you a meaningful dollar figure today.
04:13Hopefully you guys understand the reasons why.
04:16I think maybe the other way to think about it is like, hey, what are we doing to just come
04:22on to those wins, right?
04:23No matter whether you come on to those wins in free agency or trade or player development or whatever it
04:28might be,
04:29like major league free agency, yeah, it's an important piece.
04:32It ain't the only way.
04:33So our thought is like, hey, we want to do what we can in major league free agency, do what
04:39we can on the trade market.
04:41I referenced like the camps going down in Florida.
04:43Like we want to develop the heck out of our players that are currently with us.
04:48But then I really believe in this other thing too, which is this constant mindset that, hey, you know,
04:55where we have trended positively in the past, it doesn't mean it's just going to continue next year.
05:00You know, like all this stuff is fragile and the culture, like I can't say it enough.
05:04Like, man, I thought we had a great culture last year in the clubhouse.
05:08Like that doesn't mean that it's happening again in 2027.
05:11You know, we got to make it happen.
05:12So I think all the whole player group and the whole staff really understands that.
05:19I say it, but like those are all things that we have to keep front of mind all the time.
05:25And, you know, I think if we do a lot of these things, we got a chance to make a
05:29real run.
05:29And I'm excited for the group we have right now.
05:33And I'm excited for how we're going to supplement that group.
05:35Paul Toboni, who did an outstanding job in year one, had the Nats just shy of 500, exceeding all expectations.
05:41Sent a really nice letter to fans today you should check out.
05:44It's available on all the Nats.
05:47Social media spots, I retweeted it if you want to go check out at Grant Paulson.
05:51You mentioned free agency, and that's not like the only way to do it.
05:54And I think that's totally true.
05:56We're still trying to get a feel for like the way you want to do it.
05:59And so I guess what I'm wondering is, would it be fair to say you'd prefer to not be big
06:04free agent spenders?
06:05Like, did you watch pridefully as the Brewers and the Rays got to the World Series the way they did
06:11it with development?
06:12Is that what we should expect is like more being the Rays and not being the Red Sox?
06:17Like, and nobody does it one way.
06:19I was sitting at dinner in Milwaukee during the NLCS, and the Rays had six advanced pro scouts sitting next
06:26to me that were at the World Series.
06:28Like, they also have scouts.
06:28Everyone thinks they're just number nerds.
06:30But I guess what I want to know is, like, do you plan on eventually being a player in free
06:35agency,
06:36or do you view this as a team that won't have to spend a ton on players to win?
06:41Yeah.
06:42No, I think, I mean, I think if you asked anyone in my position across the league, like, I don't
06:46think it's a mystery, right?
06:47The more money you spend in free agency, the better off you're going to be.
06:51But I also don't want to fall victim to the fact that, like, that's the only way to be good,
06:55right?
06:55Yeah, you referenced Milwaukee and Tampa Bay in the World Series this year.
07:01But they've done an awesome job, like, from a development standpoint.
07:05They've made some great trades.
07:06They've got a bunch of young, talented players.
07:10And so, essentially, how we want to think about it is, like, man, we want to do all those things
07:14well, you know?
07:15And my hope is that with the staff we're assembling, like, we're going to do so in time.
07:20And when that happens, hopefully, like I keep saying, like, we can be good consistently.
07:25And kids, you know, growing up here, fans of the Nats, like, they're going to be making a ton of
07:32memories, hopefully going to playoff games year after year after year.
07:36Paul, you guys were on pace to score over 900 runs at one point this year before things cooled off,
07:42understandably, after trades.
07:43You know, Woody was injured, missed a bunch of time, et cetera.
07:46But still, the offense was unbelievable.
07:48And you're a really, really sharp dude and a smart baseball guy.
07:51I don't know that anybody saw that level of offensive renaissance coming.
07:55Had you known that, impossible to do, obviously, hindsight's 20-20, do you think you'd have done anything differently?
08:00Like, if you know I've got five and a half runs per game offense, would you have kind of handled
08:04this past offseason differently coming in?
08:10Man, that's a really good question.
08:14I don't know.
08:15You think about, like, our free agent additions, right?
08:17They were on the pitching front with, you know, obviously, Foster, Miles, Littell, those guys.
08:23I think, and man, like, when, you know, the offseason, we didn't know that Curtis Meade was going to pop
08:30up on waivers when we picked him up right at the start of the season, right?
08:34And he was obviously a huge piece.
08:35So, I'm not sure I would have done anything differently in the offseason.
08:43But, man, that's a really good question and one that I haven't put a ton of thought towards.
08:48So, I think, you know, what I keep going back to, though, is, hey, we had this great offense last
08:55year, and that's great.
08:59Like you referenced, we were able to do it because some guys had some really good years.
09:04And a couple of those guys, primarily Louie and Curtis, like, they're no longer on our team, you know what
09:10I mean?
09:10So, like I keep saying, like, that offense, you know, it doesn't automatically translate to next year.
09:18And so, we got to be really smart about how we put together a roster next year to make sure
09:23we have a really good team.
09:25You know, it's not as important to me that we have, like, an awesome, awesome offense or, you know, an
09:32awesome pitching staff and a lesser offense, whatever it might be.
09:34We just want to put our thoughts towards putting together a roster that can win as many games as possible.
09:40Paul Taboni, Nationals President of Baseball Operations, has built a front office that's become one of the envies of the
09:46sport over a very, very short time.
09:48A lot of teams are looking at the Nats to try to see how they're doing things.
09:51It has been a long time since we've said that, by the way, after the progress made from some of
09:55their players offensively in the minor leagues last year.
09:58What you just mentioned, Paul, is my second favorite part of the letter.
10:00The minor league stuff was number one for me, if I'm being honest.
10:03But you're referencing, hey, we were great.
10:07That doesn't really mean it's going to be great again next year.
10:10In the way, I thought you said it, and you could tell me if I'm wrong, but not as a
10:14way to, like, lower expectations as much as to say, like,
10:17we don't get to just roll the ball out and be an 800-run offense again or whatever.
10:21Because it is somewhat volatile in this sport.
10:24You might not have, you mentioned me to have in the big half or the Luis Garcia month where he
10:30was Ruthian.
10:31Maybe no one does that next year.
10:33How replicable is the strong offensive performance?
10:38Because maybe you get more out of, say, Wood in the second half or, you know, maybe you add a
10:43bat or whatever that is.
10:44Like, can you bank on being good offensively?
10:46And what are your thoughts on that?
10:48Yeah.
10:50So, a lot there.
10:51I think, first, how replicable is it?
10:55I mean, we have a lot of these same players.
10:57And I referenced it in the note.
10:58But we're young.
11:01You know what I mean?
11:01So, a lot of these guys are still approaching their primes, which I think is an important thing.
11:06So, you know, while J.Y. and Woody and C.J. and Gaber, these guys I mentioned, like, took big
11:13strides last year.
11:15I'm not sure that, you know, there might not be another gear in a lot of these guys, right?
11:21Shoot, if Dale and Lyle came out next year and had an awesome year, Brady House, like, turned into a
11:26complete monster.
11:28You know, I think there are, like, three, four, five, six guys that can really take real jumps.
11:33And a lot of it's just about consistency, too.
11:37Like, I was with C.J. at dinner last night.
11:40And we talked a lot about how, hey, man, if you just were able to replicate what you did in
11:45the first half and the second half, you're in the MVP race.
11:48You know what I mean?
11:49So, it's not just, like, these guys that are hitting 7, 8, 9 for us that can make these strides.
11:56It's these guys like C.J. and Woody, and they believe it deep down inside.
12:00Like, man, I think there's a world out there where they go from being, you know, all-stars to potential
12:07MVPs.
12:08And that's a cool world to think about.
12:11I didn't get my invite to that dinner with you and C.J.
12:14That was so weird.
12:16Oh, you know what? Here it is.
12:17It went to my spam.
12:18Oh, you know what spam?
12:18Yeah, my fault.
12:19I'll just make sure that changes.
12:21Are you meeting with all the players, or was that a particularly unique conversation?
12:25And whatever you're willing to share with us, he's been in the news the last couple days as someone you
12:30guys might even be shopping.
12:31What can you tell us about the future of C.J. Abrams with the Nationals?
12:35No, that's just, you know, he's, listen, like, one of my favorite parts of the job I'm in is creating
12:42relationships with staff members and with players.
12:44And he spends the majority of his offseason down in Atlanta, but he was back in D.C.
12:50And so we linked up and grabbed dinner and talked about all sorts of stuff and talked about our team
12:57in 2027 and, you know, what we can do better and all that.
13:01And what we can do better from a culture standpoint, just a lot of really good stuff.
13:07So nothing more than just, you know, me wanting to spend time with him because he's a great dude and
13:13great player.
13:14I want to go back to James Wood for a second, reference him.
13:17Second halves, each last couple of years, it's kind of been a nosedive for a guy that's first half MVP
13:23type candidate.
13:23He's been incredible OPS in the high nines, drops down to the mid-sixes in each of the last couple
13:28of seasons.
13:29Have you guys kind of thought about sort of, you know, the plan of attack there to kind of keep
13:33him from wearing down or any kind of changes just to, you know, to get him to be himself for
13:38an entire season?
13:39Because, God, he's so good when he's right.
13:42Yeah, for Woody, man, I think so much of it is just about staying healthy.
13:46Like, right when you had that little oblique, obliques are tricky, right?
13:50We talked about the time.
13:51They can seem pretty minor, but even if they're pretty minor, sometimes they last six, eight weeks.
13:57So I think, you know, he came back from it and he really wanted to play and help the team.
14:03And, man, it's tough to get back into the flow of things, you know, as if, like, you're coming out
14:10for opening day
14:11after whatever, six weeks of spring training.
14:13So I think what happened when he came back from the oblique is he was on the ground a fair
14:18amount with his balls in play.
14:21And for a guy that hits the ball as hard as Woody does, we want to see more line drives
14:27and fly balls.
14:28So, you know, he's not having four threes and six threes, but he's having doubles and homers and line drive
14:35singles all over the field.
14:37So I think that was a big thing for him.
14:41Candidly, like, I'm not worried about it.
14:42And the reason why I'm not worried about it is because I think, you know, Woody deep down inside is
14:47not worried about it.
14:48He's just he's a guy that I think is going to continue to get better year after year after year,
14:54just like he did from 25 to 26.
14:56And I think that growth is going to hopefully be a huge reason of us making a push in in
15:0327.
15:03Hey, Paul, curious, actually, I don't think we've gotten a chance to talk to you about this over the last
15:09year.
15:10There is a potential work stoppage looming and you don't have a whole lot of control over that.
15:14But how would that change the order of operations for the offseason in terms of free agency and trades and
15:21like all of that stuff?
15:22Is there a world where it's all happening in like three weeks right after business opens back up?
15:28I covered the NFL in 2011 and that happened where like within a week, everyone's reporting to training camp and
15:33like hundreds of free agents are signing.
15:36How are you guys anticipating this playing out or what are you preparing for?
15:40Yeah, I got to be careful here because I can't I can't talk about much of this.
15:44But long story short is the CBA expires right at the start of December.
15:50So, you know, we're starting to have real conversations with players and their their representatives right now.
15:59I think it's going to be a pretty big push here for the next three, four weeks.
16:04And then we'll see what happens at the start of December.
16:07But in reality, like I don't think a ton changes.
16:12You know what I mean?
16:12Like we until we have news, if we have news, like we're just going to continue to operate as we
16:19normally do.
16:20And, yeah, you might think of things like a little bit differently because it isn't a normal offseason.
16:27But I think the large majority of it, you know, we just we stay the same.
16:32We stick to our routines and the way we think it it works to make good decisions and hopefully put
16:39our team in a position to have success.
16:40Paul, big picture question here.
16:42Just sort of thinking a lot about this in your role.
16:45Again, as I mentioned, you you and all all your guys are all really sharp baseball folks.
16:48If somebody goes against your paradigm but has success anyway, how flexible are you guys?
16:55In other words, again, this is totally unfair and it sounds like I'm picking on somebody, but I'll just choose
17:00a guy.
17:01Andrew Alvarez pitches you know what off this year, right?
17:03Not necessarily the 100 mile an hour guy with the wipeout this or the dirty that.
17:08Just a really good pitcher, kind of old school, like what I grew up with, right?
17:12Sort of watching a guy like that.
17:13How flexible are you guys just generally willing to be when you go, I've got a conviction.
17:18I think this is what it should look like.
17:19It doesn't, but he's still successful.
17:21How do you balance that?
17:23Yeah, I mean, I think the simplest way to say it is we just care about winning, you know what
17:27I mean?
17:28And I know that that sounds pretty straightforward, but yeah, like do we...
17:32But it's not really, it's not.
17:34Well, so like how I think about it is, you know, like, all right, do we want guys to throw
17:40hard?
17:41Like, yeah, we want guys to throw hard.
17:43You know, if you go and look at our minor league system, yeah, a lot of our programming is around,
17:49like, man, getting guys to throw hard because it's harder to hit fast pitches, right?
17:54At the same time, you know, we went out and signed Foster last year, who sits whatever he sits.
18:00And you probably saw the Brewer series at the start of the year in Milwaukee where we swept them.
18:08And it felt like we bunted, like, 12 times and, you know, their side was going nuts when we were
18:13doing so.
18:14But, like, we care about winning.
18:15And so if bunting is the way to win, you know, we're going to bunt, right?
18:19If rolling a guy out there that's 88 to 91 is the way to win, we're going to roll that
18:23guy out there and have big belief in him.
18:25And so there's so many different ways to skin the cat.
18:29We just want to do whatever we think can lead to the most amount of wins.
18:34And, you know, how we go about doing it, like, is less important to me.
18:41You know, whether we come on to the wins or not is what drives us every day, I think.
18:45Paul, one of the things you didn't mention in the letter, and frankly, if you would have mentioned all the
18:49things that came up last year,
18:51it would have been a really, really long letter.
18:52But you guys are in a way better spot with pitching depth going into the offseason in terms of starting
18:58pitching competition in camp.
19:00I'm just thinking of back-of-the-roster types like Andrew Alvarez, Jake Irvin, Riley Cornelio, Jackson Kent.
19:07If Lorde has a future in the rotation instead of in the bullpen, I'm not sure.
19:10Josiah Gray, Arlene Susano, who's in the AFL, can't be far off.
19:14Like, that's an area where you guys have come a long way.
19:17I'm curious about, like, the next phase, though.
19:19You hired this guy, David Besky, to be a pitching strategist.
19:22So, like, what's his role?
19:24What are you guys trying to drill down on there with your staff?
19:27And how will he work with, I'm assuming, Dew's still there with Simon Matthews?
19:31Like, how will that all work?
19:34Yeah.
19:34You know, I think to what you said at the start, I do think we are deeper.
19:39I think we got a ways to go.
19:42And so, like, yeah, a lot of what I talked about in that letter was some things we've done well.
19:48The letter was also meant to highlight, like, man, we got a lot we need to improve.
19:53And that's just me being honest about it.
19:56You know, like, if you compare our depth to these two teams that play in the World Series,
20:01like, we're not there.
20:02You know what I mean?
20:02So, part of that takes time.
20:05And I think they've had, like, a really good process set up now for both those teams for over 10
20:11years now.
20:12And for us, we're going into year two.
20:15So, our task is not just to build out that depth, but, you know, to do it as fast as
20:21we can.
20:21And the sooner we do it, the more wins will be had.
20:26And so, we talk about it all the time, like, we shouldn't just measure ourselves against, like,
20:32whether we end up building out depth.
20:34We got to figure out how fast we can do it, which is part of the reason why you saw
20:38so much movement on the roster
20:40over the course of the year.
20:41We just, we want to turn over every stone to try and, you know, increase the talent of the last
20:46guy on our roster
20:47because, and off roster too, just because, I mean, you guys know it.
20:52Like, I'm assuming you play fantasy football, right?
20:54If you got three, four guys on the bench that you can plug right into the wide receiver hole,
20:59if your wide receiver's on a buy or herd or whatever it is, like, you're just more likely to have
21:03success, right?
21:03So, it ain't that different with what we do.
21:06So, we just want to build out as much depth as we can.
21:09And if that happens, it's just another way to come on a win.
21:12Yeah, super relatable content there, by the way.
21:15I didn't have done that.
21:16Is Besky a guy who's, like, in an office on a computer or is he, like, in a uniform?
21:21Yeah, sorry.
21:22I didn't even answer that part of the question.
21:24That is a bad question by me.
21:26Yeah, the super, super unique skill set guy, he, David, just, he, yeah, he's got, he's both a pitching coach,
21:35but he's also, like, he's got a background in, you know, like, deeper analysis and work with, you know,
21:42like biomech and, and he's just, yeah, he's a really unique dude that can, he can, you know, be with
21:51a pitcher in a bullpen setting and run a bullpen.
21:54He can also, like, you know, build out things on a computer that make it a lot easier to coach
22:00players and present information to players, that sort of thing.
22:03So, he's a little bit of a unicorn.
22:05Paul, you mentioned some of the roster machinations you guys did, sending guys up and down, and another thing you
22:10mentioned, I think, throughout your letter was how close this group was and how together they were all the time,
22:15and this is something I was in awe of outside looking in, was they were, you guys were able to
22:20kind of, I don't have a better turn of phrase for this, so forgive me, it's going to sound harsher
22:24than it should be, but kind of sell guys on the idea that you not being in the Major League
22:28Clubhouse was still the best thing for them, right?
22:31And I think that's kind of an amazing thing that you guys were able to do to keep that culture
22:35going, keep the trend on the tracks, keep everyone pulling in the right direction.
22:38How were you able to kind of pull that off, where you have to give a guy news that he
22:41doesn't want, and everybody's still kind of, you know, buying in 100%?
22:47Yeah, honestly, I think so much of it is a testament to everyone that was here before me.
22:53You know, the quality of the people that we have in our player group, not just on the Major League
22:58side, but on the Minor League side as well,
23:01we're really lucky, right? And so, you know, with that, we can communicate really clearly to them, like, hey, this
23:08is why we're making this decision.
23:10That's one thing I think Blake is great at, that we both challenge ourselves to do a great job of
23:15this year, like, hey, if we're going to send a guy down,
23:18you know, we got to be really clear why we're sending him down, right?
23:21And, you know, sometimes the message is, like, hey, you know, you threw two-plus innings today, and you can't
23:29throw tomorrow.
23:30And we need a guy that can throw tomorrow to protect the rest of the pen.
23:33So it's nothing you did wrong. We just need this spot with a guy that can throw for us.
23:39And, you know, it's a tough pill to swallow at times for guys, because everyone wants to be in the
23:44Major Leagues.
23:45But I just found that, once again, just being real with the players, like, they might disagree with it at
23:50times,
23:51but then you get two or three days removed, and they're thinking to themselves, like, hey, this guy was real
23:56with me.
23:56And I think ultimately it just creates a vibe in the clubhouse where hopefully everyone's real with each other,
24:03everyone trusts each other, and it's a lot easier, I think, to create deeper relationships when that's the case.
24:08Paul Toboni on Grant and Danny, your flagship home for the Nats.
24:11The letter he sent out today, the work beneath the surface, our quest to keep building,
24:17trying to keep it real with the fan base as the Nationals try to work their way back into legitimate
24:22contention in the National League.
24:23Paul, we really appreciate the time and the candor with us. Thanks so much.
24:26It's great, man.
24:27It was a good conversation.
24:28Yeah, I appreciate you guys. Yeah, I appreciate you guys. Anytime. Thanks for having me on.
24:31Yeah, you got it. This is Paul Toboni.
24:33Pobo with the Washington Nationals.