- 2 weeks ago
In this episode, we head to Music City to explore the ins and outs of Christian Music as both a musical tradition and thriving industry. When has faith been compromised in favor of industry and profit? When has the commodification of faith compromised oneâs own artistic expression? With entertainment being a hyper capitalist, image driven endeavor, in what ways does being faith-based change or conform to that? Starting with the Gospel tradition, Grace will spend time with experts and artists to try to answer the questions posed above, and figure out how we got to present day, a thriving multi-billion dollar part of the music industry.
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00:00Once I was out of the Christian music industry, I realized, like, a lot of the damage that was done
00:06while I was in it.
00:08Music has historically been one of the most prominent and accessible forms of worship in Christianity.
00:14Music is a unifier that can transcend culture, language, and distance.
00:18But what happens when that experience gets commodified?
00:21Enter the contemporary Christian music industry.
00:24Emerging as a genre in the late 60s, musician Larry Norman pioneered contemporary Christian music as we know it today.
00:31All I'm really trying to say is why should the devil have all the good music?
00:36He married his rock and roll style with a spiritual, Jesus-loving message, and brought Christian music mainstream.
00:43Kind of.
00:45Since then, CCM has grown into a multi-million dollar industry, encompassing nearly every musical style, but united in one
00:53lyrical theme.
00:53Praising the Lord.
00:56Between publishing, radio play, licensing music to churches, and live shows, this multi-faceted industry is not slowing down.
01:04Major artists continue to sell out arenas, headline major festivals, and even appear on The Ellen Show, which is a
01:10whole thing.
01:13I was raised on Christian music.
01:15I know pretty much all the words to every DC Talk song, Switchfoot, Reliant K, Newsboys, not to brag.
01:22But as I got older, I realized that as a queer Christian, a lot of this music and the artists
01:27behind it would not be welcoming or affirming of who I am.
01:32So I set out to check in with the industry as it stands today.
01:36In an industry that's built on faith, with the product being a deeper connection to God through music, who is
01:41being championed?
01:42And who is being left behind?
01:45We all know Nashville is music city, but it's not just country music they're exporting.
01:50Nashville is home to the majority of Christian artists, labels, and publishing companies.
01:55It's a uniquely positioned city at the intersection of Bible Belt ideology and entertainment sensibilities.
02:05My first stop is at the home of Lauren DeLeary.
02:08Lauren and her sister performed in a Christian pop band called Love Collide.
02:12They were Juno award-winning touring artists with three studio albums.
02:17Recently, Lauren began deconstructing her faith and pinpointing the ways her beliefs weren't compatible with the pressures of the Christian
02:24music industry.
02:26Being in the Christian music industry, obviously you have to adhere to purity culture, especially as girls.
02:32It's this weird fine line between like you have to obviously look cool, but also not be like revealing.
02:40I remember one time we were doing a show.
02:42I lifted my hands in worship and there's like, there's like a picture where you can see like this much
02:48of like my stomach.
02:49How dare you?
02:50Yeah, I know, right?
02:51I remember somebody tweeted at us and was just like, how can you like consider yourself a Christian?
02:55How can you even say you're worshiping whenever you're like making your brothers in Christ stumble with the skin that
03:01you're showing with midriff?
03:03Is it true you can't like jump and dance on stage?
03:05Yeah, yeah.
03:07People would complain about it.
03:08Men would.
03:09Right.
03:10And they would say it was too sexual.
03:12One of our singles, I Don't Want It.
03:14The music video for it, we had like paint dripping and there's one point where I'm singing and so there's
03:19like paint dripping down on my face.
03:21And we got complaints that it looked like semen.
03:24Just out of curiosity, were these people, have we confirmed that they are aware of what semen?
03:29Just, just would be an interesting follow-up because as far as I know if it is hot pink then
03:34you should see a doctor.
03:35It's just wild to me that kind of stuff like, to me the modern Christian message right now is like,
03:41we are nothing, we are but worms.
03:44Putting ourselves down so much and then looking at a holy God like, it's just all about this like huge
03:48gap.
03:49While worship music can feel incredibly cathartic,
03:52the content of most popular songs is nonspecific and tends to rely heavily on generic formulas and a lot of
03:58times water metaphors.
04:00So Lauren and I gave ourselves a challenge.
04:02I think that we should write an I am the worm worship song.
04:08Okay.
04:08Oh but I am worm.
04:09Sort of as an example of the cadence of Christian music that is easy to match.
04:14Yeah.
04:14Let's see if we can do it.
04:15Okay.
04:15In ten minutes.
04:16Something like,
04:17Glory, you are not the boner.
04:21I will be my savior.
04:23You reach out to me.
04:25Oh my gosh.
04:26You're like just doing it.
04:27Okay.
04:27I love it.
04:28I love it.
04:28Okay.
04:29No, it's perfect.
04:30I'm not saying it's a great song.
04:31I'm just saying it's the structure of a worship song.
04:34It's wonderful.
04:35Though I am not worthy.
04:36And then there's something like,
04:37Glory ever undeserving.
04:40It hurts me.
04:41I'm sorry.
04:43I'm thinking about like,
04:44when do the hands go up in the service?
04:46And we will praise you, Holy Father.
04:49It's sort of like a choose your own adventure of Christian buzzwords.
04:53Exactly.
04:53Yeah.
04:54You rescue me.
04:55Ooh, ooh.
04:56That's a good one.
04:57We will praise you, Holy Father.
05:01And we adore you.
05:04You rescue me.
05:05All right.
05:06Back to glory one more time.
05:09No, I am not worthy.
05:11And that's when that harmony is full on.
05:13That's when it's full on.
05:13Guys, we have a minute to spare.
05:15For sure.
05:16We did it.
05:17And what's a song without a music video?
05:20Lauren had shared some of the guidelines from an imaging standpoint.
05:23Modest.
05:24Covered up.
05:25Still trendy, but in like a Mumford and Sons way.
05:27Minimal movement.
05:28We did our best.
05:30Glory, though I am not worthy.
05:33New with every morning.
05:36You shine down on me.
05:39And we will praise you, Holy Father.
05:43And we adore you.
05:46You rescue me.
05:53Let's write a song we care about.
05:55Next!
05:56So what do you want to write about?
05:58What you sing is what you meditate on.
06:00Yeah.
06:01And it's like if you're just singing over and over that you are unworthy, like that's your meditation.
06:05To be honest, I don't think I've ever felt like there would ever be a place for someone like me
06:09in worship music.
06:11Yeah.
06:11Because I haven't seen it.
06:12But to me it's kind of just the opposite of what we just did.
06:14I would love to hear a worship song that's saying, I am worthy, like I belong.
06:19So we started writing.
06:22And it took longer than nine minutes.
06:28We took a break to get a fresh perspective.
06:31Hey!
06:32Hi!
06:32No one in!
06:33This is Adam Palmer.
06:35He's a songwriter, musician, and former founding member of I Am They, a pop acoustic worship group.
06:42After going through a divorce and enduring scorn and criticism from his community, Adam stepped away from the band.
06:48He's since been on his own journey navigating the industry with his own progressive and inclusive faith.
06:54I think without saying it, the average Christian listener wants the people on stage to be super Christians.
07:00They've really got the faith thing down.
07:02They're really dedicated.
07:03And like I read my Bible every single day and night.
07:06Like they want that so that they can project that, oh, that, that exists.
07:11And I can strive.
07:11That it's attainable.
07:12It's attainable.
07:13And look, they've done it.
07:14But really I found quite the opposite on the road.
07:16Yeah.
07:16Most people are struggling in their faith.
07:19You don't have like a stable lifestyle.
07:21So you're always kind of in this flux of being confused with life.
07:24So questions and confusion is like part of the daily life when you're touring.
07:28I've heard much talk about the names assigned to different demographics that Christian music targets.
07:35And I want to hear for myself.
07:37There's like a family of people?
07:38Yes.
07:39Excluding the dad.
07:40There's Becky.
07:40She's the mom that is really spoke to about the lyric of,
07:43I broke the heel off my shoe today and the kids are making me late and I have to clean
07:48up Cheerios and blah, blah, blah.
07:49And then you have Taylor, which is the teenage girl.
07:52And she is targeted by heroes of modesty and purity.
07:55They want to pour into her this ethic of her sexuality needs to be this sacred prize.
08:02And then what's the other demographic?
08:04Austin.
08:04It's the teenage boy.
08:06He's listening to the hard rock bands like Skillet and the tough Christian rock bands.
08:10You want to be presented safe angst.
08:13Safe angst?
08:15Yeah.
08:15Please kids, practice angst safely.
08:17Safely.
08:18God honoring angst.
08:20The demographic focus is primarily based on reaching the mom.
08:25Cause she's the one in the car driving around the kids.
08:26Yeah.
08:27That's a fascinating implication as well.
08:29Yeah.
08:29Because it speaks into how we view gender roles.
08:33Yep.
08:33And the culture and what's the mom supposed to be doing?
08:36Well, she's supposed to be raising the kids.
08:37Right.
08:37Doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room for the mom that's out hustling and is the breadwinner.
08:44Like, that's not a thing.
08:46So, yeah, it's very one dimensional.
08:49For me, music is about finding community through shared human experiences.
08:54When a song gives voice to something you thought that no one else could possibly understand.
08:59But whose hearts are being touched when the music is being written for imaginary, picture-perfect people?
09:05Whose stories aren't being heard?
09:08I headed out to meet Ricky Braddy, Lauren's friend from church.
09:12Ricky has spent the majority of his life as a professional worship singer and songwriter.
09:16He competed on season 17 of The Voice and, frankly, has one of the best voices I've ever heard.
09:21When I was, like, four and five years old, my mom, dad, and sister would sing, like, at the church.
09:28And I would sit with my grandmother and sing every single word that they were singing.
09:34My mom homeschooled me so that I could travel with a Christian singing group when I was 16.
09:40And that's when I realized, this is what I want to do.
09:44Yeah.
09:45Ricky worked in almost every facet of the industry, touring consistently with gospel groups,
09:50singing back up for major artists, and even writing and recording under a record deal.
09:55But he found that being in the closet was stifling his creativity and motivation.
10:00He got off the road and accepted a position as the music leader for a church worship team.
10:05The pastor and I, we saw things differently, voted differently, but we were able to mutually respect each other.
10:12Did they know that you were gay?
10:15He still believed, I guess, that it was there, but I wasn't pursuing it, any relationship or anything like that.
10:23And so I knew that I needed to at least tell the pastor.
10:27There was a part of me that hoped, maybe naively, that because of the relationship that I'd had with the
10:34church for years,
10:36that they would say, okay, well, let's figure it out.
10:40You know, we love you, we appreciate your heart, anything like that.
10:45And it was not the response.
10:48So you were fired?
10:49I was basically let go, yeah.
10:51I was given the option almost to stay and stay quiet, but not the option to stay and be authentic
11:00and honest.
11:01I've done a lot of session work here in Nashville, mostly for Christian artists, like choral stuff.
11:08I'm now not called for those things anymore.
11:12Our second to last interview was with a major Christian music label.
11:16We had a fine experience filming, but after we left, it became clear that they were not comfortable with some
11:22of the questions I asked.
11:23Hint, it was the gay ones.
11:26Following a polite and respectful discourse, we've opted not to include the interview.
11:30But I won't deny that it's frustrating not to be able to have an open dialogue.
11:34And it's hurtful that this interview was perceived to have been controversial.
11:39Honestly, we didn't really learn anything especially new.
11:43There wasn't a major reveal in this interview.
11:46The only thing I can think of is that I asked about representation in the Christian music industry and if
11:53there was space for a gay artist.
11:56And the answer that I received was basically like, I don't know to be determined.
12:00We don't talk about it.
12:02It doesn't really come up, which honestly, I don't think is totally true, but that was the answer.
12:09And we moved on and there were other questions that were asked as well.
12:12So there was a whole phone chain of freak out because I asked a question about representation and inclusion.
12:20I think that they don't want to be included in this story.
12:24And by not being included, I think that already speaks volumes to what we've heard from other people.
12:31It's just pretty sad to think that someone walked away from the conversation we had and was like, I think
12:38this could be a problem.
12:40Because the question isn't the problem.
12:43It's the fact that you're not having the conversation.
12:45It's the fact that you're complicit in this exclusion.
12:48That's the problem.
12:54We are on our way right now to talk with Dan from Jars of Clay.
12:59He was the lead singer.
13:00If you paid attention to contemporary Christian music at all growing up like other cool kids like me, then you
13:07know that Jars of Clay was a huge band.
13:09They were staples of the Christian music industry.
13:11I'm curious about what a long career revealed to him about the nature of the industry.
13:18I'm Dan Hasseltine, and I am the singer for the band Jars of Clay.
13:22You're a pretty big band.
13:23We had a good run, I would say.
13:25We toured for about 22, 23 years.
13:28If you're reading the bio, it would say multi-platinum, three-time Grammy-winning band Jars of Clay.
13:34Same in my bio too.
13:37In 2014, Jars of Clay faced backlash after Dan sent out a handful of tweets questioning why people were so
13:44adamantly opposed to gay marriage.
13:50Lifeway and all the outlets that sold Christian music had pulled our Jars of Clay stuff off the shelves.
13:55We had been disinvited from a bunch of the music festivals and things that we were supposed to do that
13:59year.
14:00Christian Radio had pulled our music off.
14:02They weren't going to play it anymore.
14:03It was the backlash of the Christian community because I was asking questions about how we treat the LGBT community.
14:12The fact that I was asking the questions meant that we were unsafe now.
14:16That was the moment where it was just like,
14:18okay, I guess we're not going to have this conversation with this community of people.
14:23And yet, I look at it and I go, I think we were asking the right questions.
14:27I don't regret pushing that conversation forward.
14:30There weren't any other Christian artists that were having that conversation.
14:34There aren't.
14:35There still really aren't.
14:36There really aren't.
14:37Yeah.
14:37And it's just unfortunate because the other thing I learned from it was there's so many people that have been
14:43hurt really badly by the church.
14:46Are there other artists that are sort of where you are but won't say anything publicly because...
14:54Yeah, I've got a list.
14:55I'll just...
14:55No, no, no.
14:56I mean, I just mean that like surely you can't be the only person who's questioning.
15:01A lot of artists that are still in the spotlight, they believe that way but they're really not allowed to
15:06say it.
15:07At some point, the value of an artist comes from telling the truth.
15:12To lift another person up rather than keep a person oppressed.
15:16It makes me so sad because I think of music that was so there for me.
15:19It was like that felt like so comforting.
15:23Yeah.
15:23I almost have to like redo some of my childhood memories because there are artists that now I think back
15:29on the struggles I was going through that I don't know like would be there for me.
15:33I just have to wonder who was it for?
15:36Was it for me in the closet?
15:38Yeah.
15:39Like who was it for?
15:40Would they have rathered that?
15:42Yeah.
15:43Wow.
15:43And I don't know.
15:45Yeah.
15:45I'm sorry.
15:46I'm sorry actually.
15:47I really...
15:48You don't need to apologize.
15:49I know.
15:49Well, but as just a...
15:51Yeah.
15:52It pains me that that's how like...
15:56That's how the story plays out.
15:58If you could make sort of a prediction or maybe a speculation on where you see the Christian music industry
16:03going and perhaps what would your hope be?
16:05I think there will be church music and that's sort of the worship music that exists.
16:11And then I think the artists that want to look at the world and describe it, they're just finding their
16:15space amongst all the other artists in general music.
16:20Which maybe is how it always should have been.
16:23The fact that we don't have a Christian artist speaking to the powerful journey of coming out, coming into yourself,
16:30who God created you to be,
16:32that there isn't that, like, I'll buy that album.
16:35Right.
16:36You know?
16:36Yeah.
16:36I want to hear that story.
16:38Yeah.
16:38And maybe it's not on a Christian label.
16:40They might not be ready for that.
16:42But it won't make it any less divinely inspired if it finds its way into the world.
16:51I miss worship music.
16:53My goal, if, you know, I'm going to start writing worship songs again, is to write songs that I resonate
17:01with and that people in my church could sing.
17:03And you can sing and not be stepping over bad theology or damaging messages.
17:09Sadly, I think the bridge was burned just by coming out.
17:13But it's met with an overwhelming amount of peace knowing that I am exactly where I need to be.
17:22Everything that I create, music and otherwise, is going to come from a place of complete honesty and oneness with
17:30myself and my creator.
17:32We know the resilience of the human spirit.
17:36We will always find a way.
17:38Yeah.
17:39And I think that's what I'm excited and hopeful for.
17:41And that's what I've learned from my time in Nashville.
17:44And also letting people know if you're gay, you can still listen to Jars of Clay.
17:47Great, yeah.
17:48Don't worry, it's okay.
17:50Yes.
17:53You never loved me.
17:56I believe I'm worthy.
18:00And you couldn't be closer.
18:03I see the light breaking through.
18:08So I'm gonna break free.
18:09You never loved me.
18:11Oh, Your Love.
18:14Wides the river for me.
18:19Oh, Your Love.
18:24Deeper than no sunshine, rising for me.