- 9 minutes ago
Smart glasses have been making headlines the world over as the public suddenly realises that discrete cameras in everyday wearables like Ray-Ban Meta specs might not be the best thing for their privacy... but is it too late to close Pandora's box with Samsung x Google and Snap set to launch new smart lenses imminently and even Apple rumored to join the fold?
Join hosts Josephine Watson and Hamish Hector as well as Axel Metz and special guest Jason England, Managing Editor — Computing at Tom's Guide to hear all about the new Pixel 11 series, Honor Robot Phone and the big smart glasses debate of 2026.
Join hosts Josephine Watson and Hamish Hector as well as Axel Metz and special guest Jason England, Managing Editor — Computing at Tom's Guide to hear all about the new Pixel 11 series, Honor Robot Phone and the big smart glasses debate of 2026.
Category
🤖
TechTranscript
00:00Apple's probably the only company that might be able to get away with
00:03full-on proper glasses with cameras and everything.
00:06People are so much more conscious of the fact that there's a camera on your left
00:10and a blinking light on the right. It makes the people around me nervous.
00:15We have not yet addressed some of the glaring concerns people have about the technology we have
00:19now in smart glasses.
00:21It's hard to convince them that they absolutely need these smart glasses.
00:24Then you've got your standard way of AI glasses,
00:26the Warby Parker gentlemen, the Qualcomm, Google, whoever else wants to be involved in that party,
00:31they're welcome to come.
00:32Mark Zuckerberg has said that there is this general goal to have always-on AI.
00:36Phone, iPhone, AI phone, robot phone. It's a completely ridiculous product,
00:40but in the best possible way.
00:41If you can put a gimbal in the back of a phone,
00:43you can put like a little robot arm that can reach out and like scratch your nose for you.
00:47It's more fun.
00:53Welcome, everyone, to the 34th episode of the Tech Radar Podcast. My name is Josephine Watson,
00:58and I'm joined today, as always, by Hamish Hector.
01:01Hello.
01:01As well as Axel Metz.
01:02Hello.
01:03Lance Yulonoff.
01:04Hello.
01:04As well as friend of the show, Jason England.
01:07Hello.
01:07This week, we'll be talking through the latest big news from Google and its Pixel 11 launch,
01:11including how the new Pixel 11 Pro Fold stacks up against competition like the recently released
01:16Samsung Galaxy Fold 8 and Fold 8 Ultra. We'll also be deep diving into the controversy surrounding
01:21smart glasses like Ray-Ban Metz, as increasing fallout puts the hardware at the heart of public
01:27anxiety around tech and surveillance. Before we dive into this episode, make sure to scan
01:31this QR code to learn more about becoming a Tech Radar insider. And yes, I turned you into a QR
01:36code
01:36again. Membership is completely free and gives you access to exclusive perks, rewards, and more.
01:41But first off, here's Hamish with this episode's edition of In Case You Missed It.
01:44Thanks, Josie. I'm no longer QR code.
01:46Since our last episode, Google has treated us to its Made by Google Pixel 11 event,
01:52showcasing new phones, the Pixel Watch 5, and a Pixel tag. The highlight was, well,
01:57the highlight. A new LED array that'll keep you informed of important notifications,
02:01even if your phone is face down on the table. Though that innovation has nothing on Honor's latest
02:07phone update, with the robot phone effectively strapping a gimbal to the back of a Magic 8 Pro.
02:13The gimbal can tuck itself away when it isn't in use, and based on our brief tests,
02:18it's pretty darn effective, producing dynamic 4K video that'll leave content creators outside of
02:23China wishing they could get their hands on this gadget. Just like how non-Netflix subscribers will
02:29be wishing they could tune in to the Grand Theft Auto 6 and extended look, debuting exclusively on the
02:35streaming platform. Take-Two Interactive's CEO defended the move, saying the trailer will come to YouTube
02:40just six hours later. However, given the rabid excitement for this title, I can understand why
02:45fans are frustrated that new updates will be locked behind a paywall, even if only briefly.
02:51Lastly, the UK and parts of Europe were treated to a solar eclipse, and photographers took their
02:55chance to capture some truly incredible shots as the moon covered the sun. Later in the episode,
03:00we'll be discussing the dangers of cameras, but it's always nice to be reminded of the joy and beauty
03:04technology can deliver. Thank you very much, Hamish. It's been a little while since we've been in the
03:08studio, so lots of ground to cover. Let's kick off with a look back at the recent Pixel 11 launch.
03:13So, Axel, could you run us through some of the headlines there?
03:15Yeah, I mean, in terms of hardware, there wasn't all that much to talk about, or at least it's,
03:19you know, exciting this year. But we've got four new phones, the Pixel 11, 11 Pro, 11 Pro XL,
03:2511 Pro Fold. But if you line them up all against their respective predecessors, honestly, it's
03:29actually hard to tell the difference. And I know we say that a lot, but genuinely,
03:31I had to look a few times to tell the difference. But I'm fine with that, honestly,
03:35because I think this kind of design language that Google's been running with since the 9
03:39is pretty effective. It's very modern. It looks really cool. I wasn't really clamoring for any
03:43particular design upgrades. But at least for the non-folding models, the camera bar at the back
03:48is now all glass. It's thinner. It stretches across. And there's this highlight feature that
03:53you mentioned, Hamish, which is kind of like an LED sensor on the back, which essentially tells you
03:57who's calling you at any given time. And I think it flashes when Gemini is active.
04:01And when I saw it for the first time, I was a bit like, is that it? Is there anything
04:05else it can
04:06do? And Google did say that other things are coming. But I think whatever this LED is able
04:12to do in the future, I don't think that's a must upgrade feature, you know, by any metric for anyone
04:17to get. But it's cool, I guess, like nothing phones had a similar thing a few years ago. And it
04:22is,
04:22you know, something new and interesting that they can put in an ad campaign, I guess. But the cameras are
04:27better on every model. I think the main sensors are larger, I don't think they're in terms of megapixels,
04:31but like the sizes is a bit bigger. You get twice as much base storage across the board,
04:35which is always good, because 128 gigabytes is just way too low for anyone in this day and age.
04:39And interestingly, the 11 Pro actually comes with four gigabytes less RAM this year,
04:44which I think is the first time we're kind of seeing this RAM crisis issue bleed into big brand
04:50products. I can't think of an example where a product's come out that's had that much less RAM
04:55than before. And I don't think, you know, 16 gigabytes of RAM, which is what the 10 series had,
05:01it's kind of too much for most people anyway. But it is kind of crazy that a flagship product
05:06has that degree, fewer RAMs, less RAM, I don't know. And Google software has always been the cleanest,
05:14and we've kind of talked about Pixel phones as being the best at AI and the best at software.
05:18So I don't know whether that's going to be true anymore, we have to kind of test out the new
05:21features.
05:22And then we'll talk about the folds in a minute. But I think there was the Pixel tag,
05:25which is kind of Google's take on an Air tag, essentially. And then a lot of those Gemini
05:29intelligence features that were announced back at the Android show in March, I think.
05:32So it's kind of like smaller hardware changes, necessary stuff, I guess, in the sense of the
05:37storage and things like that. But these software features, again, they look interesting and cool,
05:42but I don't think a lot of them are unique to the 11 series. The tag, for instance, will work
05:46with,
05:47you know, Pixels five generations back or something like that. So this is definitely not
05:52a kind of revolutionary generation of Pixels that you should upgrade from if you own a 10.
05:56But again, we can't expect crazy innovation stuff every year. So it is what it is.
06:02And you said there as well about like not wishing for any major changes. The one change I was hoping
06:06for was that those horrible edges on the fold would just be solved. I hate the sort of contrast
06:12of the curve to the square.
06:14Well, I was going to ask you, Lance, about the fold, because I haven't actually used the fold yet.
06:17But you, I saw your headline. It's again, small changes, but worthwhile changes.
06:22Yeah. I mean, it, it, it, it's always been, it's been a nice phone. It's been a nice folding
06:27phone. It is, it, it operates in the shadow of, of the Samsung Galaxy Z Fold 8 Ultra, which is
06:34so
06:35thin and, you know, exciting and has really great cameras, but this is so much lighter. I mean,
06:41you really like noticeably lighter and they, they really just all of these, these refinement,
06:48like the size of the cover screen, they, they made it bigger by, by basically reducing the size of
06:54the border around it. And that's a real, that's a visual difference. That's something you notice
06:58right away. And you're like, oh, so it, it looks prettier. The, the back, that, that giant camera,
07:04uh, Island is shrunk a little bit. Uh, it feels better. It looks better. And you know,
07:12so it's generally, it's just, it's a series of refinements, um, for what was already a good phone
07:19and, and not for nothing, it costs the same as a Samsung Galaxy Z Fold 8, you know, the new
07:26sort of
07:26passports, uh, size, uh, foldable that they have. So they're both in the U S 1899, but you get more
07:33cameras, uh, you get better cameras on the, the pixel and, um, and you know, you get all of the
07:40Gemini stuff baked in there. Uh, but I'm still, you know, I'm, I'm in the process of, of really
07:47putting it through its paces. Uh, I kind of agree with Axel on that, um, that highlight. It's like,
07:53okay, that's cool. I mean, how, how often am I like, is my phone sort of face down and it's
07:59like,
07:59okay, I, I kind of get it, but it feels a little bit like a gimmick. And yeah, I think
08:04we sort of
08:05already mentioned as well, software maybe felt like the side where some more changes were coming
08:08in. And that's especially true in the pixel watch five, because now you've got breathing
08:12emergency detection, blood pressure trends, insulin resistance trends, and AI strength
08:17generated training plan. The last of which is my absolute highlight, because it means we got to
08:20see Lance take on a Rocky style strength training course in one of our TikToks, which was brilliant.
08:26How was trying those features out Lance? What do you think about what Google's doing
08:29in the health space? The reason I wanted to do that, that tryout is because, you know, my,
08:34my own workout revolves sort of core weight training, you know, and stuff that I've struggled
08:40to properly track on my Apple watch. So the very, you know, sort of granular way that you could sort
08:47of set up these workouts with the pixel watch five, I was actually impressed by it. So I was like,
08:53oh, well, let's try out all these things. I didn't know I'd be jumping up on a box or anything,
08:57which is a video I do not enjoy watching at all, like my skinny little legs popping up and down.
09:03But you really, you, you felt like it was, it, it felt a little bit more like a personal trainer.
09:10So, cause it was so connected to each thing to sort of each rep and, and the different kinds of
09:15things. And, and I liked how you can tailor it and, you know, using the intelligence to tailor a workout
09:20based on injuries or anything else about you. I think that's actually really smart. And I've
09:26always liked the pixel watch in that it's a, the design is really attractive. It's one of the best
09:32looking smart watches I've seen. So I think they, they, those, that, and all the health changes that
09:39they're making there are some of the more impactful things that are happening on the pixel side.
09:43And where the hardware side might not be changing so much. That's something that does come up in our
09:48comments quite a lot when you then contrast it with the likes of Honor, which you've just been
09:52to visit out in China. So you've seen the Honor robot phone in action. Tell us a little bit about
09:57how that was.
09:57I mean, it's a completely ridiculous product, but in the best possible way, you know, it's like
10:01clearly a very niche product for video creators. And there are lots of questions about how practical
10:06it is, whether it would work over here, for instance, it's only available in China for now,
10:09but because it's so different to anything we've seen before, it's really kind of captured the
10:14imagination as a, as a sort of sci-fi turned reality product. Like we would, we posted some
10:18videos on TikTok and Facebook, I think, and they just went crazy. They went bananas with
10:23people kind of dunking on the U S saying, you would never get this in the U S, you know,
10:27regulation so far behind this, that, and the other, but genuinely it is a cool little product
10:31and it, and it works when they announced it back in, I think last year, October, it was
10:36a concept phone and Honor likes to do that. They like to just announce things to say that,
10:39look at what we're planning, look how far.
10:41And a bag phone as well.
10:42Yeah, which is a similar thing. Yeah.
10:44And then I think MWC, you saw it, but on a sort of podium, you know, look, don't touch.
10:49So I was like, okay, you've made it, but does it work?
10:52Yeah.
10:53It works. It works really well. The gimbal is sturdy. The quality is good.
10:58Obviously the durability rating is like completely naff because if you get any sand or water or
11:02anything in this thing, it's just going to, you know, break and fall apart. But yeah, it was
11:08really impressive. Honestly, it was really impressive. And it's just nice to hold
11:11and play with tech that is completely new. And I think my headline was like, it made
11:15me feel like a kid again. And it really did. Just picking it up and being like, whoa, look
11:18at this.
11:19Yeah.
11:19And I had friends who aren't interested in technology be like, what the hell was that
11:22that you picked up and played with?
11:23Did you get to use any more of the AI Companion stuff in it?
11:26Well, the AI Companion, they said we could, and we could a bit, but it's very heavily Chinese.
11:32Ah, okay.
11:33And even when you ask it to speak English, it kind of can't. It starts in English and
11:36it follows up in Chinese and they were like, oh, stop, stop, stop.
11:39But I think that's the point. Like in China, this thing has already, the pre-orders have
11:44sold out. So as much as I say it's niche, it will sell out in China. People will use
11:48it. They're much more willing over there to kind of just try this crazy stuff. They all
11:51walk around with their cameras out. They all are filming content, speaking to AI assistants.
11:55So I think in that sphere, it's a success. Whether it comes over here, I'm not sure.
12:00There was kind of rumblings. They wouldn't confirm it, but they were talking as if there
12:04might be one coming over here to the UK. But we'll see. It's a crazy but cool thing,
12:09I think.
12:09I keep thinking that I imagine how that idea could be extended. Look, if you can put a
12:15gimbal in the back of a phone, you could put like a little robot arm that could reach
12:18out and like scratch your nose for you.
12:20More fun.
12:21I mean, yeah.
12:22Right.
12:26So, Axel, in the trailer for it, it sort of had this thing where it was like phone,
12:30iPhone, robot phone. Do you feel like that's like a justifiable comparison?
12:35I mean, in the sense that it's a brand new type of phone. Yeah. But I think Honor was
12:41maybe, you know, pumping itself up a bit. And maybe giving Apple a bit too much of service,
12:45you know, saying phone, iPhone, robot phone.
12:47I think the iPhone was like a revolution, I guess, to like what a smartphone is.
12:50But they actually said phone, iPhone, AI phone, robot phone.
12:53Oh, that diminishes it. That diminishes it.
12:55What's about the iPhone? We're not there yet.
12:57Really even there.
12:58Yeah. Okay.
12:59It's interesting to see some developments happening in the camera space that are a little bit more
13:03innovative. And especially right now where it feels like cameras are coming off of our
13:07phones and onto our faces, which leads us on to our main topic for today. So we've left a lot
13:11of time
13:11to talk about everything that has been going on with smart glasses in the last few months, because it felt
13:17like 2025 was a bit of a watershed moment. Adoption was really up in 2025.
13:21And now concerns and division around things like public privacy in terms of how we operate in spaces when we're
13:28out and about, as well as our data online are really putting smart glasses in the fore of public discussion.
13:35There have been satirical ad campaigns here in the UK, posters going up in the US, and a lot of
13:41these topics hitting courtrooms across the world.
13:44We've got Hamish and Jason with us today, who both do a lot of coverage on smart glasses.
13:48So I wanted to get from you both a little bit of an insight into how we've gotten to where
13:53we are today and what some of the latest headlines are.
13:55So why don't you kick us off, Jason, with a little bit of a brief overview, as much as that
13:59is possible with a very, very meaty topic.
14:01Absolutely. So cameras in glasses have been existing for quite a while now.
14:07I remember rushing to a vending machine in 2017 to go get my Snapchat spectacles and stuff like that.
14:13And that was always like good fun to be able to take pictures sneakily in, for me, it was in
14:18some Egyptian tombs, so that the security didn't see people taking pictures and stuff like that.
14:23I know that we've all got stories like that.
14:24As it's kind of evolved with essentially the birth of AI and the way that it's kind of like working
14:34for us, those cameras are starting to become a bit more of a safety concern in terms of just how
14:42much stuff those cameras are monitoring on a regular basis and what it's being used to train AI models as
14:47well.
14:48But then there's also the other bit, it's the age old adage of technology.
14:53If people are given a new technology, there's going to be some people that will figure out how to use
14:58it nefariously.
14:59And we're starting to see a lot more really concerning ways of people using metaglasses, actually sort of like trying
15:07to drill out the LED lights as well and seeing it work and everything.
15:11Seeing the camera continue to work when it shouldn't, when the LED is covered, sorry.
15:16The response at first from Meta seemed to be good in that we have issued this update that when the
15:23LED light is messed with in any way, shape or form, that the camera will be shut off and everything.
15:30But then the very next day, they started testing something called super sensing AI glasses, which are basically always on
15:36capturing everything around you essentially to train its models, which I don't know what you think about that, Hamish, but
15:42it seems a little bit dystopian.
15:43Yeah, so super sense is this thing that has been like leaked a few times.
15:47And I think they've never like called it something official, but Mark Zuckerberg has said in like investor meetings and
15:55various situations that there is this general goal to have always on AI.
16:00And they will always point to tools like when you're about to leave your house, their glasses could say, wait,
16:07wait, you've forgotten your keys because it would know where you leave your keys and it would have seen that
16:11you didn't go and pick them up that morning.
16:13Or if you're out at the shops and it could tell you, you know, you could ask, have I got
16:17any milk in and your glasses would have seen in your fridge and seen you're running low or actually you've
16:21got plenty or these like basically offloading some of that mental load and sort of helping you out in that
16:28way.
16:28But obviously, while you can find various useful cases of it, it's got to be always on to be useful.
16:39The moment it can't see bits of your day, it instantly stops being useful because, you know, if you'd have
16:43turned them off in the morning, it doesn't know if you picked up your keys, it was off.
16:46And you think, OK, the AI is always on, always looking, always listening.
16:52That's pretty big privacy concerns.
16:54The way that apparently some form of it is meant to be meant to work in testing is instead of
17:02capturing all of the data and sending it off to meta servers, it will turn it into metadata, which is
17:07basically data about your data.
17:09So it wouldn't capture the image.
17:11It would just it would capture a description of the image.
17:14Right.
17:14If that's sort of, you know, splitting hairs, I don't know, that's up to you.
17:19And you also sort of have to trust that's how it works and it won't ever change.
17:23So, yeah, I don't know.
17:24Super sense is one of those things where I'm sure it is useful and I'm sure that you can say
17:29a dozen different things about how it's really handy.
17:33But I don't know if it's handy enough to overcome the fact that you always have something that's watching everything
17:38you do of all hours of the day.
17:40And I think the reason why any news that's coming out about the super sensing stuff feels even more pertinent
17:45is because we have not yet addressed some of the glaring concerns people have about the technology we have now
17:51in smart glasses.
17:52The problem is, is that people, when they get their hands on a thing that can do a thing that
17:58is bad, will try and do the thing that is bad.
18:00Like you say, with the removal of the privacy features, you both use smart glasses quite a lot.
18:05I've used a couple of different pairs.
18:06Lance has as well.
18:08What do you feel now when you're sort of using them out in public versus what you felt when you
18:13first started trying them?
18:14Has it changed at all?
18:15I don't wear smart glasses with cameras on anymore.
18:20Like through and through.
18:21The way that the conversation has changed around my mates whenever I'd be wearing them, because I always do this
18:28thing whenever I'm testing smart glasses.
18:30I call it a pub test that I'll basically go to my mates, go for a pint and everything.
18:35And without telling them, just show up wearing smart glasses and see whether they've spot them on my face and
18:40things like that.
18:41Most of the time, it's you look like a bit of a something beginning with a W.
18:45And I won't say that word any further, but for the most part, if I was wearing the Ray-Ban
18:54Meta smart glasses and things like that, it was always, obviously, they're kind of like a bigger frame to like
18:59house a battery and stuff like that.
19:00But it wasn't to the point that they looked overtly weird on my face or anything like that.
19:06Whereas now, people are so much more conscious of the fact that there's a camera on your left and a
19:12blinking light on the right, if I can say that properly.
19:17It makes the people around me nervous.
19:21And it kind of changes their reaction to me wearing glasses with cameras on them.
19:28So I've moved a lot more to smart glasses without cameras on them.
19:31So things like even Reality Street 2, the Memo Mind, which I know are over there and so on and
19:37so forth because of the reaction that people have had to them.
19:41And you had something similar recently because you went on your honeymoon.
19:43Congratulations, by the way.
19:45Yes.
19:45So I took these Meta Optics with me and because I've been giving them to review.
19:51And so I thought, well, I'm going on my honeymoon.
19:53I know when I've gone on holiday in the past, my Meta Glasses are normally a pretty useful piece of
19:57kit because they've got that camera so you can, you know, record in the moment things without being behind your
20:02phone.
20:03They also have like open ear headphones so I can listen to music.
20:06And, you know, we were in Tenerife, so a lot of stuff's in Spanish.
20:10So actually, my wife used a pair of the Oakley Glasses that I've got and she used them to help
20:15her translate the back of like conditioner bottles because hers had exploded in the suitcase.
20:20And she's allergic to some ingredients so she needs to find out if she could use the conditioner she was
20:25buying.
20:26And so there are like a bunch of these useful cases.
20:28But yeah, I did feel like I constantly wanted to take them off.
20:31Like when we, the moment I used them was like when we were out and about in a town nearby.
20:35But, you know, when I was by the pool at our hotel, I sort of felt like, oh, I can't
20:40really wear these because, yeah, if someone spots me in them,
20:42I think there's enough fear around them that someone might think I'm being a creep and want to beat me
20:48up.
20:49And I think that there, even though I've not had anyone sort of actually come and present like an aggressive
20:56way towards me,
20:57I just see this stuff and I think, I don't know if I want to be associated with the weirdos.
21:02And also I don't want to risk someone having an adverse reaction to them because I think, as you said,
21:07Jason, it has changed dramatically.
21:09Because I remember writing stories last year, or maybe not writing stories, but telling people.
21:14It's like, it's kind of odd that when Google Glass came out, I feel like very instantly there was this
21:20visceral reaction.
21:21And maybe Lance can talk about this a bit more in a minute.
21:23But there were stories about people being accosted in the street and like very much, I do not like this,
21:29having a camera on it.
21:30But the Metaglasses and some of these others that were around seemed just like we're getting a pass.
21:36Like no one seemed to care.
21:37And then suddenly we hit a brick wall and everyone is like, this is awful.
21:41This is weird.
21:41And you cannot escape in 2026.
21:45I don't know what, because obviously Lance, I know you used a lot of the Google Glass and stuff like
21:49that.
21:49So I was wondering what was your perception of that side of stuff?
21:52Google Glass, you know, the original Google Glass looked so strange that, of course,
21:56people immediately called you all sorts of names when you walked around with them.
22:01And I did walk around with them quite a bit and appeared here and there.
22:04And you can find Getty images of me wearing them.
22:07And yes, I'm that idiot.
22:08But with the Ray-Bans, you know, the thing that changed, what you mentioned is the reason that they were
22:14so widely accepted is that they basically looked like regular glasses.
22:17They were the closest thing we had now to smart glasses that didn't look absolutely ridiculous on your face.
22:22And people would not notice initially.
22:27But just like everything else, the speed at which sentiment changed on these sort of almost moved at AI speed.
22:35We went from that honeymoon period where everybody was like, you know, Meadow was selling a ton of them.
22:41A lot of people were wearing them.
22:42All the competition to try and meet what Meadow was doing with the Ray-Bans.
22:48And suddenly we're in that other space where people are going, oh, wait a minute.
22:52That's a camera on your face looking at me.
22:55You just took my picture.
22:56I mean, honestly, that Becky story, which I know we're going to talk about, really hit me.
23:01It's this idea that there's a camera on your face that could be on at any time.
23:06Yes, there's a light that you can see, but not everyone notices it.
23:09But so, you know, the one flip side of this that I wanted to mention, though, because the sentiment about
23:17privacy, you know, that the camera's on and you talked about it, you know, if the that system of always
23:23capturing everything all the time, but just metadata.
23:26And it just made me think that ultimately this is all about data.
23:32Facebook loves, Meta loves data.
23:35And really, we've been delivering data at scale across our lives for decades now by using the Internet and using
23:43the phones and traveling around with them.
23:46We've just been feeding data into the big system.
23:49But the gap in that data has been sort of visual data where real-time visual data to sort of
23:57give you a sense of the world around you.
23:59It's the one area where it's really not easy to capture the data.
24:02And that's this big opportunity, I think, that Meta sees.
24:05But this is where the rubber meets the road.
24:08This is where the moment of human sentiment, human reaction to this is at cross purposes with giving over this
24:17kind of data.
24:18And being in that space of always on.
24:21So I don't wear – the only reason I don't wear smart glasses very often is not necessarily because I
24:27was concerned about privacy or data.
24:29It's that I don't have a pair with prescription lenses.
24:33On that second one about the prescription, yeah, these are the first ones I've had with my prescription in the
24:37optics.
24:38I've got a very slight prescription, though, so if I don't have any in, it doesn't really make that much
24:42of a difference to my vision.
24:43It has been very fun.
24:45But I guess as the backlash to smart glasses grows, obviously, prescription glasses cost a lot more because you've got
24:52to get special lens fitted.
24:54And then suddenly, if you're being told, well, there's a bunch of places you can't come in and wear these.
24:59Yeah.
24:59And, you know, you've spent £500 on a pair of glasses.
25:02Well, you know, you're still out of luck.
25:05A lot of them say – a lot of these rules say we still ban them if they are your
25:09prescription glasses.
25:10They are banned, no ifs, no buts, no coconuts.
25:13And so you have to, like – you know, that's a big problem.
25:17And actually – but also on the data side of things, Lance reminded me, there was a patent filing, I
25:25think, was being reported on yesterday as we're recording.
25:28So fairly recently.
25:29And it included two interesting details.
25:31So the first was the return of this so-called name tag feature that Meta got on a little bit
25:37of hot water for before.
25:39Basically, the idea that the glasses, again, with this sort of maybe always-on sensing, can tag people in real
25:45life.
25:46So if you meet someone at a dinner party one time and then maybe seeing them in a couple of
25:51months, it can be like, oh, this is Josie.
25:52She has a cat and this is what her partner's called and all of this stuff, like basic information so
25:58then, you know, you can then talk to this person that maybe you half know you know, but you can't
26:02remember all these details and it can spit that back out to you.
26:05Name tag, I think, was meant to be a bit more overall and general.
26:08This patent seems to, again, come back to this, oh, it's for, like, dinner parties and these private events.
26:13So you think, okay, I feel like you're just trying to service the same thing in a different package.
26:16But the second, and so people really focused on that.
26:19I think the thing that some people missed was this fact that it could, like, auto-record clips of things
26:25that you're doing, which seems initially maybe kind of useful.
26:28You know, you can capture something on social media rather than having to edit your different clips together.
26:32But part of the patent references the glasses and the AI being able to tell what you find most interesting
26:39when you're looking at it.
26:40And I'm saying to Jason, I feel like that is not even a half step away from being some kind
26:46of advertiser useful data, being like, we can tell you what, you know, aspects of different adverts this person specifically
26:53finds the most visually engaging.
26:56And I'm not saying they've said they'll do that, but it's so close to them clearly being able to do
27:01that and selling all of that stuff.
27:02And if you're a company like Meta or some of the big social media companies, they make their money on
27:07advertising, you know, it would make perfect business sense for them to sell that data.
27:11Yeah, it is still horrifying.
27:14I mean, I remember watching there's a documentary in the early noughties, which was all about how supermarkets do the
27:19same thing.
27:20They used to do eye tracking to see what shelves you looked at in the supermarkets and then give preferential
27:25treatment to more premium products, more expensive products, more desirable ones in the areas that people would look the most.
27:31I remember watching that thinking, that's so violating.
27:34I don't want to go to the supermarket anymore.
27:36They're going to con me.
27:37And now, obviously, we're moving to this different space.
27:39But the thing I find really interesting about the facial recognition part specifically, and this was something I found just
27:43before we came into the studio today, was that obviously Facebook has always had facial recognition as part of its
27:49services, but it ceased those in 2021.
27:51So it used to have the feature which would automatically tag photos of friends based on, you know, your own
27:58uploads and their uploads.
27:59And in 2021, they stopped that service.
28:02And they cited specifically, there are many concerns about the place of facial recognition technology in society, and regulators are
28:08still in the process of providing a clear set of rules governing its use.
28:12Amid this ongoing uncertainty, we believe that limiting the use of facial recognition to a narrow set of use cases
28:17is appropriate.
28:18And I think what's most interesting here is about that narrative shift that's happening over the years where, like, we're
28:23getting quite used to the idea of our face, our data being in places, but also people are sort of
28:28having waves of acceptance.
28:30So Lance mentioned before, our colleague Becky had written a story recently about this kind of topic, including specifically around
28:37surveillance technology, in everything from smart glasses to our earbuds.
28:40So we're going to run a little tape from her own words talking about that story.
28:43Hi, I'm Becky, TechRadar's audio editor, and this was a bit off my regular beat, to be honest.
28:50But I'd had my eye on what people far more intelligent than me call the chicification of surveillance tech and
28:56privacy and consent issues around it for a little while now, because of something I saw back in May that
29:01made me feel awful.
29:03I recently had shoulder surgery, and not long after it, my other half drove me to our local beach so
29:09I could just sit and exist and still be in pain, but with a different view.
29:14And I saw a man wearing AI glasses, filming a family on the beach with two toddlers making sandcastles and
29:21a slightly older girl, a child, in just bikini bottoms.
29:25Now, I could see he was filming with the glasses because I could see the light, but the family hadn't
29:30seen it.
29:31They were busy making sure their children had sunscreen on and that the girl was watching her chips because the
29:36UK has a seagull problem, you know, typical family madness and chaos.
29:41But the man was filming, sitting with other men who must have known that he was filming.
29:46And there was an ease to the lack of consent and zero comeback on it all that made me just
29:52incredibly angry.
29:53And I hate to think what he did with that footage, honestly.
29:56So the point is, I made a silent promise that I wouldn't let that get away without some kind of
30:02coverage, whether I mentioned that horrible observation or not.
30:06Then, TechRadar published three stories in a few days that, to me, resonated around this central problem, i.e. lack
30:12of consent, growing omnipresent surveillance in wearables and collection of our data and likeness,
30:19which is often stored not safely, but rather used without our knowledge, let alone consent, in various ways.
30:27This was all by chance, but a new bit of software in LG TVs was launched that basically records your
30:34conversations in standby and asks owners to tell anyone visiting their home that their voice will be recorded
30:41and used in AI training by LG to comply with wiretapping laws.
30:47Then there was the backlash over Meta's glasses and hackers facilitating facial recognition tech, which led to various online privacy
30:55groups calling for camera-free glasses and their subsequent widespread banning from certain places.
31:00And the third was my coverage of the new Nothing Ear 3a earbuds.
31:07So despite being pink, fun, $99 earbuds billed as designed to invoke a sense of play in Nothing's young, creative,
31:18engaged fan base, they record calls with a squeeze of the stems.
31:22And all your caller or subject would hear is a beep, which if you mute, they wouldn't hear.
31:28And again, nothing tells you during setup to always gain permission before you record.
31:31But of course, the user can choose to ignore that request.
31:34And nobody seems to have spoken about this from a privacy and consent perspective.
31:39What I wanted to point out with each example is the company put the AI surveillance tech into the kit,
31:45but then leaves the legal responsibilities with the owner,
31:48which let's face it, the owner just may not bother with.
31:52So initially, I just wanted to get comment on all of this from an expert.
31:55Unfortunately, a wonderful woman from Mozilla Foundation, a nonprofit organization for digital safety called Lauren Henry Parsons was prepared to
32:04talk to me.
32:05And her words were golden.
32:07When she spoke to me, she kept saying phrases such as necessary friction over consent and privacy by design and
32:14zero trust approach.
32:15There was also a really strong quote.
32:18Companies chose this.
32:20They chose to put AI in products cheaply without the necessary privacy protocols inbuilt.
32:25They could have made better choices.
32:27So that made me wonder if any CEO out there was making better choices.
32:32Are you not bypassing the whole consent thing and not scraping our data to sell us things and further LLM
32:39training?
32:40And it turns out there is.
32:42Div Garg is the founder and CEO of AGI, a company that wants to make a Siri that actually works,
32:48but where all data stays on device.
32:50He also turned down a big gig at OpenAI to do it his way.
32:54So he expanded a lot on the notion that companies do things the cheap way because storing all of your
33:00data on device is more expensive and means you have to work harder with things like onboard memory space and
33:06the heating up of your device and also battery life.
33:09Where storing it cheaply and accessibly in the cloud bypasses those hurdles that obviously is potentially bad for us.
33:15Now, on device data and scientists and certainly isn't happening with those nothing tiny buds.
33:24And as we all know, it has already been widely reported that footage taken with smart glasses isn't staying on
33:30device.
33:30So in the end, I got two interesting points of view, one from a female digital rights advocate, one from
33:38a male CEO of an AI and robotics company.
33:41It wasn't necessarily what flat on, but the first interview led me down a part of the second.
33:48Anyway, hopefully interesting. Thanks, guys.
33:50So the reason I wanted to include that today is because I think we're all evangelists in our own different
33:54way about this.
33:55And we're also of ages where we're a bit more used to some of this stuff when it comes to
34:00social media platforms.
34:01Axel, you and I were talking about that earlier.
34:02For you, though, where do you sit on this issue as someone who's not really using smart glasses as much?
34:07I mean, I think for me, I'm not too concerned about the state surveillance and data harvesting stuff, because as
34:12Lance was saying, we've kind of been giving them that information for years.
34:16You know, even from a face ID point of view, I've been surrounded by face ID technology and facial recognition
34:21technology my whole life.
34:22And maybe that's a generational difference or like a complicity or whatever.
34:26Like, I don't know, maybe it's not right that I'm so willing to give this all over, but that's that's
34:31where we are.
34:31Like I'm used to it. But from a kind of content point of view, there's nothing worse than someone coming
34:36up to you on the street with a boom mic and a camera or a phone and saying, what do
34:41you think about this?
34:41What do you think about that? And this is like that, but without even knowing it's a camera there.
34:46You know, so I don't think you can't take it's gonna be very difficult to take people's right away to
34:51film stuff on the street, right?
34:52If people have a camera or a phone, they can do whatever they want. They can film you.
34:54But there's a big difference between it being subtle and secret and not knowing because then you can't remove yourself
35:00from a situation.
35:02And I think maybe that's that's the key difference for me, like the story that Becky's talking about.
35:07It wasn't someone sitting there with a with a camera or a or a phone, which is obviously equally bad.
35:12But you can maybe you're more aware that it's happening and you can ask them to stop here or whatever.
35:17But if you just can't see it, how do you even where do you stop and start with? I don't
35:21know.
35:22Yeah. And, you know, she mentioned in there about the privacy light is visible if you're looking for it.
35:27And there are still vast swathes of people who don't realize how how many of these devices there are out
35:35on the market, for one thing, and how different they can look, how different those lights can look even.
35:41But also, I can't see a tiny little LED from 20, 30 feet away. And I'm, you know, relatively young.
35:48Not everyone is going to be able to see that, especially when you then come on to people with different
35:53visibility needs.
35:54Also, just being in public spaces, being outdoors, it's not always possible to see.
35:59So I think the challenge they're really going to be butting up against is how to do this in a
36:04way that is frictionless, because that's the word they often use.
36:08Right. That's why we can't have a sound because then it's too interfering with the experience of it, but also
36:13still has that in mind.
36:14And my question to you is, do you think it's possible to do that or is it just no cameras
36:19are the only way to do it?
36:20It's a good question. And it's one that I feel like is going to be very tough to answer over
36:27the next few years.
36:28So to agree with what you were saying, like the whole idea of like data collection, like I'm not necessarily
36:37too uncomfortable with, because at the end of the day, people can generate like the whole human race on a
36:45day by day basis, according to some study I read a couple months back, generate 400 million terabytes of data
36:51per day.
36:52Crazy.
36:53And that is being collected, absorbed and processed.
36:57And to take the slightly cynical stance that I know that Hamish was taking about meta, it would be the
37:03most meta thing possible to turn that into some kind of like AI training data and also for advertising as
37:10well.
37:10It kind of takes me straight back to that scene in Ready Player One when he's trying to like present
37:16like the VR headset and saying like, we can achieve 85% screen coverage of your field of view with
37:22ads before you have a seizure.
37:23Yeah, it seems like it would be the most meta thing to do to see how much of your view
37:29can we hold up with adverts for whatever things that you may have lingered on at like a store or
37:36something like that.
37:37And then also on top of that as well, it's trusting private companies to do the right thing with the
37:45information it takes about you.
37:46The trust point is the sticking point here really, right?
37:50Like that doesn't feel like there's anyone right now who you can look at and say, I trust with this
37:53data.
37:54But at the same time, the data is being generated.
37:56It exists.
37:58It's not just through these devices either, right?
38:00I always try and keep in mind that, you know, private businesses or public companies, you know, their businesses, your
38:07best interest is not the first order of business.
38:10It is the survival and the growth of the business and what is best for that.
38:16So sometimes when you hear these CEOs talking and acting in ways that seem disconnected from the human experience, it's
38:23because they're not thinking so much about the human experience.
38:25They're thinking about how will this company continue to grow, collect data, make money, build a bigger audience.
38:32And if a sort of side benefit of that is that somehow your life improves because you've got a new
38:38feature or functionality, well, that's all the better.
38:41I mean, I don't think that they're actively trying to harm people, but they're not always thinking about reality or
38:48how people actually interact and do things.
38:51And then you have the people on the other side who are handed these devices and there's always going to
38:56be people who will do good.
38:59And then there's always going to be people who will do bad.
39:01There was some incredible reporting from basically joint reporting by two Swedish news outlets with some great journalists that basically
39:10found some meta contractors that were given access to footage and photos recorded using the meta glasses.
39:22Because I spoke with meta about this, basically, when you do sign up to use the AI on the glasses,
39:28you sign up that anything that involves the AI is shared with meta, which includes photos and videos.
39:34Because it all goes through the meta AI app.
39:35It all has to go through the meta AI app.
39:37And that's, they don't, it's not like Apple, they don't have a private server.
39:40They don't do any of that stuff.
39:41You know, it's all shared within meta.
39:43It could be part of the training data.
39:44And some of that training data will be reviewed by humans.
39:48However, and that is like pretty clear.
39:50A lot of this stuff is sometimes, you know, hidden away in terms of services.
39:54But I've set up a bunch of these different glasses over time.
39:56And when you've clicked as allow AI, it says in pretty obvious text, if you allow this, we will see
40:02everything you do with the AI, including photos and videos shared.
40:05Cool.
40:06Makes sense.
40:06Clear.
40:07What wasn't entirely clear is that includes, seemingly, if you activate the camera using voice controls.
40:15So not saying, hey meta, look and tell me about this landmark, just saying, hey meta, start a video.
40:21Yeah.
40:21Which technically is AI.
40:23But I think to a lot of people, we've had voice controls for a while, doesn't feel like using AI.
40:27It's a hands-free system.
40:29We refer to it as something different.
40:30But that then meant that these contractors said they saw various different things from people in the bathroom to people
40:38in the bedroom with other people in states of undress.
40:42Looking at credit card information, all the stuff that you have nightmares about strangers seeing about you.
40:49Yeah.
40:50And obviously, that's really bad.
40:52That's real bad.
40:53Even if you know, even if you've technically agreed to that, I think that's part of this is like they
40:57can say, oh, you know, we've, people know this and know that.
41:00But I think part of whatever system we have going forwards, this needs to be like properly spelled out what
41:06is and isn't shared and maybe allow people to have access to some bits but not others.
41:12You know, because I don't know, hands-free controls is an example of something which I don't feel like you
41:18need to share with an AI.
41:19But also to sort of maybe steel man the defense of glasses, we have seen like reports of things like
41:26how the camera can be really helpful for people who are visually impaired in some way.
41:31And it can, the glasses can describe what you are looking at to that person.
41:35There is something called a conversation boost, which actually had its own controversy where Meta tried to rate limit it.
41:42They didn't backtrack on that.
41:43But the idea is you could be sat down with someone in a cafe and the glasses can pick up
41:47sort of who you're looking at and boost their audio.
41:50So actually, let's say we're in a noisy space, it would boost your sound and cut out the noise.
41:55And so through the speakers, I would hear your voice being played.
41:58It's not quite an accessibility feature.
42:00Meta reached out to me saying that they don't call it an accessibility feature because they don't define it as
42:05one.
42:05But I think it is kind of like we've seen like the hearing aid feature that you can get in
42:09like AirPods.
42:10It's like that maybe half step for people who aren't yet ready to get like full on accessibility tech, maybe
42:17are trying this stuff out.
42:19And you sort of asked the question of like, can you get rid of cameras in these glasses?
42:23Could you potentially do it that they can only take a photo?
42:26And so like, because that's often, you know, the AI just needs to maybe see like a snapshot of what
42:31you're seeing.
42:31Just being able to take a photo is kind of useful, but obviously isn't as weird as taking a video.
42:36And then you can, you know, like they do in Japan where they mandate cameras have to have a loud
42:40snap sound.
42:42You could do the same thing.
42:43Like you have to play a really audible, I'm taking a photo sound effect.
42:47Say cheese!
42:49Maybe that's how you get away with it.
42:50But then again, you know, as Jason talked about earlier, we've already seen people finding ways to like drill out
42:55the light to get around the fact that Meta did originally protect it.
43:00If you just try and cover the light with, say, a piece of tape or your finger, it won't let
43:03the cameras work.
43:04But people found if they mess with the hardware, they could have found a way to get around that.
43:08There were kits available online for them.
43:09Yeah. Ironically, people selling that through like Facebook Marketplace, they then have since seem to clamp down on a bit.
43:15But it's just this thing of people.
43:17I think if you the moment you put a camera in them, people will find a ways to abuse it.
43:21And so I guess the hope is you find regulation that goes down the middle.
43:28Right.
43:28Think about it this way.
43:29What if I walked into the office in scuba gear?
43:32Like just walked in.
43:34You're like, what are you doing?
43:35Why are you wearing scuba gear?
43:36And that's kind of how I feel about, you know, full featured smart glasses with a display, audio and a
43:42camera.
43:43They are going to be useful in certain situations and should be used in certain situations.
43:48The fact that these companies are trying to sell them as a potentially always sort of life watching technology, I
43:54think is where they really go awry.
43:56You know, you don't wear the scuba gear all the time.
43:58You shouldn't wear these glasses all the time.
44:00However, if I were somebody like climbing a mountain, I were a free, what is called like a free base
44:06climber.
44:07I don't know how they're described, but if you're.
44:09Yeah.
44:10And imagine then you're wearing them and it sort of can see where you're supposed to be grabbing, can guide
44:15you, can tell you about it, can tell you about the conditions.
44:18It can capture the moment.
44:19That seems super, super useful.
44:22But then in my everyday life, 95 percent of the time, I just need to see clearly.
44:26I don't need all of that other stuff.
44:29I think there's a safety argument in there as well that Becky sort of alluded to in her story in
44:33terms of like being able to capture a potential assailant in a violent situation, especially as a woman.
44:39There have been times I've been wearing smart glasses and I've thought to myself, you know, God, if something happened
44:43to me right now, I'd actually have a way to prove it happened.
44:45But also when it comes to heads up displays, same thing for navigating.
44:49London has a little bit of a phone theft problem.
44:52It would be much safer to be able to look where you're going and see directions straight down the barrel
44:57rather than looking down at your phone.
44:59Those are very limited positive use cases.
45:02And those are also both things we are doing to circumvent situations in which other bad actors are the problem.
45:08When in reality, what we're talking about is the problem with smart glasses is those same bad actors.
45:13And there are ways and we talked about earlier, there are other gadgets that do the same thing.
45:17Like that's the direction is one of the favorite things about my smartwatch is I get Google Google Maps on
45:21here.
45:22And so I can just look at my wrist rather than having my phone out.
45:24Yes.
45:24Well, I was going to ask you both as smart glass wearers, what is the one thing you do the
45:29most on it?
45:29What do you find is the most useful?
45:31The content creation, the assistance, the music listing.
45:34Like what is it that if you could strip it down to one thing, you would both use them for?
45:38So for me, as I've made my shift over to like glasses without cameras on them until the camera part
45:46of it starts to make more sense.
45:47There's definitely been some pretty decent what's kind of called like ambient computing elements to it.
45:53So I got speaking to the CEO of Even Reality is where he kind of proposed what this platform is
46:00going to be, which is it's computing only when you need it and then it disappears away.
46:07And honestly, when I think about to kind of go all the way back and ask your question about like
46:12can glasses with cameras work?
46:13Yeah, I think it will do over time as they figure out what that platform looks like.
46:18Like you have to start with the design and actually make them look nice on your face.
46:22And then the societal acceptance of that technology kind of comes in over time.
46:27The killer wrap features come in and they can get to that point.
46:30I mean, as a wonderful example.
46:34So the Rayneo X3 Pro are basically a combination of AR glasses with a heads-up display and also a
46:41camera.
46:42I put them on and I look like I'm totally not trying to spy on your party right now.
46:48No one can tell.
46:49It's a hell of a look.
46:51But regardless, I'm going to quickly take this off because I'm going to get quickly memed by the internal staff
46:55on the Slack channel.
46:58What I'm trying to say is the feature sets, while there is some useful stuff, I know that we've talked
47:05a bit about this before.
47:06There isn't anything that is really sort of like good enough to make me think, okay, so smart glasses have
47:12a real genuine point for being versus looking at directions on my watch or pulling out my phone and taking
47:20a picture of something.
47:21I think for me, the fact that they kind of do a little bit of everything is useful enough that
47:25I find that the audio when I'm wearing them is solid.
47:30You know, I kind of like just being able to casually walk around, even though I love like open-air
47:34headphones from like shocks.
47:36There's like open-worn dots.
47:37I love those.
47:38But it even feels like there's something in there.
47:39It's just kind of nice to have like casually be walking around with glasses.
47:42I think they look pretty stylish.
47:45Also, before I bought these glasses, these were the only glasses I had that could do like the transition lenses.
47:51Which is kind of handy, but it's not really like intrinsic in the tech.
47:54Because you're talking about glasses though.
47:56I'm talking about glasses mostly, but just having the audio is fun.
47:59And I think the thing that I think is genuinely useful for them is while the phone is better as
48:05a camera, being able to live in the moment while still capturing it does have some major benefits.
48:11You know, I've used them loads at concerts to record quick videos or photos just to be like, hey, look,
48:16I'm enjoying this concert, but I'm not behind my phone.
48:18It's just like being able to capture those little moments.
48:22You're hands free.
48:23So you don't, that's like an advantage of them is you don't have to pull your phone out and you
48:26can activate them with your voice even if it is shared with Meta.
48:29But you can just like record something while still living in it, which I know was like part of like
48:35the Google thing.
48:35You can sort of hold your phone.
48:38But it's like, you're still sort of holding your phone.
48:40I still feel like you're separating yourself off a little bit.
48:42This is the time when like the only time I felt like I'm recording something and living it in a
48:48way.
48:48And I think there is, there is something nice about that.
48:52But is that a good enough positive to get around all the other negatives?
48:57I'm not wearing them as much anymore.
48:59And I've written about how I'm not wearing them as much anymore.
49:01So you can take from that that I think that's not counteracting the negatives.
49:05But yeah, there are positives there for people.
49:07The only benefit I've found from any of them really has been that Judi Dench can be the voice assistant
49:13on the Meta glasses.
49:16I've got to have Judi Dench, my girl.
49:18So before we close out, I think the good place to leave this is what happens next.
49:22So we've talked about what we might want to see from these smart glasses, but we actually know that quite
49:26a few are coming out.
49:27You've got this mega collaboration with Samsung, Google and a million other people.
49:30I'm not going to list out all their names again, sorry.
49:32As well as the long rumored smart specs from Apple and other companies in the mix as well.
49:37Just how badly does this current backlash bode for those brands, do we think?
49:42Samsung and Google, I think this is not great for them because I think Google, as we've talked about,
49:47has I think a lot of that same reputational problems that Meta has had.
49:51And I think that they will have to navigate this quagmire as well.
49:58I've written, I'm sort of known on the podcast as the anti-Apple guy.
50:02He's turning.
50:02I've written plenty about how I think Apple's probably the only company that might be able to get away with
50:07full-on proper glasses with cameras and everything.
50:10They got invited.
50:11Because they have, because if you, if you ask someone, you know, what's like the thing Apple does,
50:16I feel like it's big on data privacy.
50:18Every single step of the way, particularly on the AI, like this private cloud compute stuff.
50:23And in terms of, you know, trusting that the pictures and images and all of that stuff you take is
50:27completely 100% private,
50:30will be a major benefit to them.
50:33The flip side is, while that's private for you, it doesn't consider necessarily the privacy of everyone around you,
50:39which I think is the bigger, like a public concern.
50:42But I think that if they can, if they can solve, they've solved like half the problem,
50:47whereas everyone else has solved none of the privacy problem.
50:49And so if they can, the people at Apple are smart, I'm sure they can solve the other half of
50:54it.
50:54Equally, maybe Apple has, because they've not announced anything official yet,
50:58maybe they just come out with some without cameras in.
51:01I know that there was some report they might put cameras in their earbuds, but maybe they just...
51:05Yeah, you brought that story up earlier, Axel.
51:07Yeah, yeah.
51:08So it's like leaked as part of some Mac beta or something.
51:10Like, yeah, essentially little cameras in AirPods to be able to do this kind of like...
51:15I guess more like the smart sensing sort of stuff, almost.
51:18It's like the visual intelligence part of Siri.
51:20And I was saying before, like I think maybe six months ago, if that was rumoured and was reported to
51:25be coming out,
51:25people would go, oh, that's really cool and innovative.
51:27Whereas now, it's got a whole different taste to it now.
51:29And I think, Hamish, what you were saying about Apple we've seen as the sort of, you know, captain privacy.
51:33I think that's true because they haven't jumped headfirst into this whole, you know, like situation.
51:40And I think for them to do that, I don't necessarily think they'd do it in a way that's any
51:44different to anyone else.
51:45I think they just maybe won't.
51:46I don't know.
51:47I mean, I know there has been all these rumours of glasses for a long, long time.
51:50This makes me even less convinced that this is the year or next year is the year that they would
51:55bring those out.
51:56I think maybe they'd even slow it down even more.
51:58I don't know.
51:59Who's to say?
51:59Who's to say?
52:00What do you see on the horizon, Jason?
52:01So what I see is a bunch of companies that have very different ideas of what smart glasses are going
52:08to be.
52:09There's, of course, the ambient computing platform that I was talking about before, where you're going to see more camera
52:15-free, privacy-focused AI glasses, which also have microphones and maybe not super privacy-focused.
52:22But that's the image that they're going to want to pull across.
52:25Then you've got your standard array of AI glasses, which Hamish has already spoken about, the Warby Parker, Gentle Monster,
52:32Qualcomm, Google, whoever else wants to be involved in that party, they're welcome to come.
52:36And that place will continue to evolve as well with increasingly, I'm going to assume, sort of like concerning sounding
52:46technologies that will probably bring me back on future episodes of this podcast.
52:50And then there's the extra level.
52:54So the Snap Specs, for example, where the idea is everybody keeps talking about Mark Zuckerberg will not shut up
53:02about saying glasses are going to replace your phone.
53:05Snap Specs are kind of like the first real interpretation of that.
53:09Whether it works or not, it's up for debate.
53:13Like they are $2,000 glasses and they are gigantic on your face and stuff like that.
53:19I took a picture of the Snap CEO wearing them.
53:23That went super viral all over X because basically you could see how much pressure it was putting on his
53:29ear because it's like the sheer force of like the insane amounts of compute to make something like that work.
53:34It is that fundamental vision of what do we get if we take a VR headset, make it present of
53:40everything around you and stuff it into a pair of glasses.
53:44Everybody's got their own idea of what it's going to look like and it's going to be up to us
53:50and our ever dwindling bank balances to decide.
53:54I'll put it pretty simply.
53:56We're in the middle of a tech reckoning and it is hard to approach consumers with something that is full
54:04of AI, constantly watching, making people around you uncomfortable when everyone's questioning their choices about using all kinds of technology.
54:14The companies, some of the companies making this stuff, the social media companies are under attack, literally under legal attack
54:20and facing massive fines.
54:22And there's just questions about the pervasiveness of technology in our lives where people are looking to take a step
54:31back, not to become further immersed in it.
54:36And of course, you know, I speak as somebody who is, you know, surrounded by and loves technology, but I
54:42can I can see the sentiment shifting.
54:45So it's going to be really hard for these companies to introduce these devices and inspire people to buy them
54:53in the same way that they are they do buy smartphones because they not only, you know, love them, they
55:00absolutely need them.
55:02It's hard to convince them that they absolutely need these these smart glasses.
55:06So I think it's going to be five years ago.
55:10It might have been different.
55:11I just think it's going to be much more difficult to build a market around these devices going forward.
55:17Well, it's going to be an interesting couple of months with Meta Connect on the horizon, as well as all
55:21these big launches.
55:22So make sure to subscribe if you want to see those future episodes where we'll undoubtedly be covering this topic
55:28some more.
55:29With that, we are out of time for this week's episode.
55:31So big thanks to our guests for joining us.
55:33Let us know in the comments down below what you make of the current furore around smart glasses.
55:38And while you're there, hit the subscribe button for more tech news, reviews and how to's.
55:42We'll see you next time.
55:43Bye.