- 10 minutes ago
What are Google's plans for "Intelligent Eyewear"? Mark finds out in this interview with Juston Payne, who leads Product Management for XR at Google. How has Google learned from Meta's experience in the space? And how will Google compete with whatever smart glasses Apple is cooking up? Find out in our exclusive interview!
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00:00If people don't feel comfortable wearing these glasses, and privacy is part of this,
00:05they just won't wear the glasses. It's as simple as that. So what are we going to do about it?
00:10Everyone says smart glasses are the next big thing, but at Google, I think the operative
00:13word would be things because there's a lot coming in the Android XR pipeline from intelligent eye
00:19wear with and without displays to puck-powered AR glasses. And there's no better person to break
00:24this all down than Justin Payne, who leads the product team for XR at Google. Justin,
00:29thanks for hanging out with us today. All right, it's so good to see you again.
00:32So let's start from the beginning. Let's step into a time machine of sorts because it's been
00:38over a decade since the original Google Glasses rollout. It ended up being a textbook case of a
00:44tech product launching way ahead of its social runway and being ahead of its time. But what
00:50was the number one lesson learned being applied from that product to the upcoming generations of
00:56intelligent eyewear? It's a great question. It's one we've thought about quite a lot,
01:01as you would imagine here at Google, because Glass was such an innovative product. And like you said,
01:06it came out in 2012. So we're now well past a decade. And one of our beliefs actually about
01:13Glass, this is actually something that I've done. I've gone back and I've watched the original
01:16Google Glass launch video. And it features somebody kind of walking around New York City and getting
01:22these real-time information. It pops up in this person's line of sight. And the vision was so good.
01:29It really, really resonated with me. I was actually living in New York at the time. And the trouble was
01:35that the vision was good, but the reality, the tech just wasn't quite there yet. So there was
01:43actually three things. You asked for one, I'll give you three. There are really three things that
01:49weren't there yet that we've been really working very hard on in various ways. So that now this
01:56generation of intelligent eyewear is really ready to go and fulfill on the promise. So the things that
02:00weren't there, the hardware wasn't quite ready. So what we learned through this was that you really
02:06need a form factor that looks and feels like glasses. People have to feel great wearing them in
02:11every sense of the word. You also need a great content on there. So you need a platform.
02:17If there's no platform, then you don't have great content. It's kind of as simple as that.
02:22And then the third is that we have learned a lot about what people really want from their glasses.
02:27They want them to be almost infinitely versatile. The only way to do that is with AI. So there were
02:33these huge building blocks missing, even though the vision was right. Hardware, platform, AI. And so
02:40we've been able to take all of these and start moving forward on them. And that brings us now to
02:45today.
02:46Okay. So why don't we just refresh everyone's memories in terms of like what's actually coming,
02:51right? So we have a bunch of products that are promised for this year and next. So can you just
02:55tell us about the intelligent eyewear roadmap and what's coming when?
03:00Yeah, great. And as you said, there's actually a lot coming. It's worth taking a step back for
03:06everybody just to remind everybody of Google's overall approach in this space. So as I said,
03:13XR products really are only as useful as what they do for people, which means that you have to have
03:17great content on them. And then they have to be really easy to use and they have to be really
03:21versatile. That's where AI comes in. Great. So we've said a number of times, in fact, when
03:27we've done some announcements over the past few years, we've said Android XR. It's one platform for
03:32headsets and glasses, one unified platform. And what that really means in practice is that as a
03:37developer, if you've built an app for Android, Google will do the lift to then translate it
03:43into form facts that are more immersive or more ambient across this spectrum. Now, the value for
03:50users there is that it means that the apps that they already know, they're going to add value from
03:56day one in their products. And then with AI, what it means is that if they're already engaging with
04:02Gemini, then Gemini is already understanding who they are. It can take your personal context,
04:09you know, we call it personal intelligence, and then it can start feeding that into your
04:12experience. So no matter what kind of product you're using, you'll have familiar apps, you'll
04:16have an AI which knows you and it can tailor the experience. So that's the sort of backdrop here.
04:21Sure.
04:21So then what we're able to do is that we can take, let's say, the starting point that we did
04:26last year
04:27with Galaxy XR that we made with Samsung. And we can bring that forward to a form factor that will
04:33launch later this year, which is called Wired XR Glasses. And we're partnering with Xreal to make
04:39that product called Aura. So this is then an immersive experience in a pair of sort of sunglasses-y
04:45looking things that has a wire that goes to a puck. But you get that whole premium Galaxy XR
04:50experience within these wired glasses. Now, the other new thing that we're adding this year,
04:55as you said, is intelligent eyewear. Intelligent eyewear, these are just normal everyday looking
05:01glasses. We're making them with Warby Parker, with Gentle Monster, and with Samsung. And there's
05:07a whole range of designs. We've only showed a couple of them so far. You'll be seeing some more
05:11soon. So there's a whole range of designs and styles that are coming. And these are designed to
05:17give you ambient assistance throughout the day while keeping you connected to your digital world and
05:21the real world. So this is what those do. But the story is the same, which is that
05:25because these glasses connect to your phone, all of your phone apps are relevant in the glasses.
05:31They all provide value. So this means that they're very versatile. They can do what you want. And of
05:35course, you have Gemini there. Gemini knows who you are. It knows what you've been doing. And
05:39all of this, of course, with your permission. But it can then tailor these experiences to you.
05:44And then the glasses, or I guess the display version of those glasses, I guess, is slated for
05:50sometime in 2027. Or have you actually said like early, late, or anything along those lines?
05:56We haven't said what the launch date is. But what we're actually doing this year,
06:00it's pretty exciting, is that we're going to expand what we call a trusted tester program,
06:05which is where non-Googlers get to start testing and using these products. And of course,
06:10this is all done in the name of getting products completely ready to go so that when they are for
06:16sale, people get a perfect polished experience. Sure. I think when I read the comments online
06:21about smart glasses in general, and then people see like display free glasses or audio only glasses,
06:26a lot of people say, well, I'm just going to wait for the display version. So maybe just give people
06:30a sense of what can you actually do with intelligent eyewear that doesn't have a display? Like how useful
06:36is something like that in your everyday life? It's a wonderful question. And what I love about the
06:42glasses market is that when you look at how broad this market is, how many people wear glasses,
06:50you basically have the whole population of people wearing glasses. And what that means is that
06:56different people will want different types of glasses to add value. So there are plenty of people
07:01who are saying, hey, I'm really excited for glasses with one display because I want to add to an audio
07:07and camera experience by augmenting it with some heads of information. You'll have some people who
07:12want two displays. Hey, I want to be able to world block things and I want to have more depth
07:17in the
07:17experience. And then you have a lot of people who are saying, actually, what I really want from the
07:23glasses is an easy conversational interface with a private audio interface with my glasses so that I can
07:33get practical things done. So a few examples just of things that we see people coming back to you over
07:38and over again. The broadest one is just having an easy way to talk to Gemini all day. So, you
07:46know,
07:47it's almost like if you're not comfortable wearing earbuds all day long, then good news,
07:52you can wear glasses all day long. And then because Gemini has personal intelligence in it,
07:58it knows you. And so you can ask about whatever you need. It could be what's on your calendar.
08:02It could be about something that you were, you know, asking about earlier. It could be the score
08:06of some sports game. It could be a fact. Like, it's incredibly broad. So just having a real-time
08:10conversational interface all day long is incredibly valuable for a lot of people.
08:16I think there's a lot of people, just along those lines, I was just going to say, I think a
08:19lot of
08:19people maybe have experienced Gemini Live, but there's something different about like being able to
08:23wear it and being sort of omnipresent. Yeah, that's exactly right. There's this thing that happens
08:30when you don't have to take more actions to talk to an AI. It's something that you begin to access
08:38a lot more readily. And so for me, just, you know, easy examples here are that I'll be driving. I'm
08:45wearing the glasses that don't have a display and I'm listening to a podcast. My muscle memory now is
08:51that something will be said on the podcast. I'll pause it. Hey, Google. I hope nothing triggers.
08:59I'll ask my question. Something triggered. I'll then ask my question, have a back and forth,
09:06unpause my podcast. And so in that moment, these are things that just don't happen normally.
09:12Now, where we see that people go a lot farther with it is because Gemini Live then hooks into your
09:18applications. You then get a lot kind of more immediate value. So think about something like
09:25navigation. So if you're wearing your glasses and you want to know if there's something good around
09:28you, you talk to Gemini and then you ask it how to get there. Now, the audio experience for that
09:34is
09:34fantastic. It uses the camera to localize you. So it knows that you're pointing in the right
09:39direction. It can give you contextual navigation to help you get to where you're going without being
09:44vague, you know, like a term right there, sort of instructions. And that audio experience is great.
09:51Translation works really well in glasses because we're back to my Google Translate. So it's
09:56incredibly quick. It's like that UN translator experience. Things like cooking, you know, like
10:01you don't really actually need a screen for that. So you're sitting there and you can just say,
10:05wait, what do I do next? Or wait, which one? You know, like, yeah, what's the next step? Wait,
10:10what did Mark Bittman say that I should put in here? I can't remember. Like all of these things
10:15are just this immediate access either to information or to apps. They're super useful.
10:20Now, where the display comes in is that it can upgrade some experiences. Now, some people will
10:27choose that they need that upgrade. Some people will want that upgrade. And some people will say,
10:31I don't really need it. And so for something like Maps, look, you can have a great audio experience
10:37maps. But if there is a display, then we can make it so that as you're looking forward, we can
10:42say
10:42your next turn is in 300 feet, or you can look down and you can see a little map right
10:47there to
10:47help get you where you're going. So we think of the display more as almost an augmentation
10:53to the audio experience rather than something that is a hard dependency in many cases. There are some
11:01exceptions to that, but by and large, that's what the approach is. So I just wanted to touch on pricing
11:05a little bit. I know you can't pre-announce pricing for products that haven't shipped yet,
11:08but just to give people a sense of like what's out there right now, or maybe what's coming in terms
11:12of the tiers. So just as an example, like Meta's glasses without the display, you know, run in the
11:17$400, $300 to $400 range. And if you want the display, it's like now you're talking about $800 or
11:23so. Are you guys thinking similarly about your product roadmap? And I know you have to like talk about
11:29your partners as well. And then you also have the XR glasses coming from Xreal. So can you just give
11:35people a sense of like value and what people should expect to pay, even if it's just like a broad
11:40range?
11:41Yeah. Yeah. So as you said, pricing will come later this year, just in terms of specifics. But in terms
11:50of the ballparks, what you're seeing right now is all very much ballpark for what we're thinking as well.
11:55And we're really excited about that because we think that we have a product that's really valuable.
12:00I think it's really versatile. We think it does a lot of things that aren't available in the market
12:03right now. And so we think that for that price point, people are going to get a lot of bang
12:08for
12:08the buck, which is always a nice thing to be able to say. You know, and just by the way,
12:13one nice note
12:14on Xreal Aura now was that they actually sold out of their founder's edition within just a couple of
12:22days. And it was really fantastic to see people just feeling so motivated on that one to go out
12:30and buy them, you know, by placing this in a pre-order. Yeah. I saw that there was a wait
12:35list
12:35on their site for, I guess there's a second wave that's coming. So one interesting thing to touch on
12:43is design, just because you're not making these glasses yourselves. You're working with a wide range
12:47of partners in terms of what's out there right now. You have everything from sunglasses to that kind
12:52of looks like what people are wearing today to like, on like, let's say the meta side. Then you
12:56have the display glasses, which are a little bit bulkier and geekier. And then you have, let's say
12:59the snap specs, which I think you could argue, maybe go to the extreme side in terms of, of bulk
13:04and, you know, just making, maybe just looking not like regular glasses. So what is your approach
13:10design wise as you work with your partners, right? Whether it's Gentle Monster
13:14or Warby Parker and others about like, how do you make glasses that are not only capable,
13:20but sleek enough that people would want to wear them on a daily basis?
13:26It's, it's so the right question, because ultimately what we're talking about is trade-offs
13:31and value, you know, and, and there's going to be different opinions up out in the market. And
13:37that's great about where you should sit on that value equation and what, what you should trade off for
13:43it. You know, personally, I think that it's amazing to see that our space, that the XR space,
13:49this AR category is getting so much investment that there's so many different ideas coming in.
13:55It's, it's exciting to see because the space is early, you know, it's, it's growing extremely quickly.
14:01There's a lot of excitement, but it's still early days for it. So seeing all these different opinions,
14:05these different ideas is actually is, is wonderful. So our, our belief is sort of twofold.
14:11Um, the first is that our fundamental principle around anything in the entire,
14:16in the intelligent eyewear category is that it has to be great glasses first and foremost.
14:21So we lead with design and then we see, and then we see, um, we ask the question,
14:27what can you make within the constraints of a great design? So that's our, our main constraint
14:34that we take. And then there's a question for us, which is for those constraints,
14:39can you then make a product that is genuinely valuable for people so that if they walk out of
14:46their house and they forgot them, they'll actually go back and get them. That's our question.
14:50I thought you were going to say, if people walk out of their house, people are not going to make
14:53fun of them.
14:54Yeah. Well, there's definitely that too, but, but this is where that, that, that first principle.
14:58And one of the reasons that we've loved working and we are working with Warby Barker,
15:04Gentle Monster and Samsung on this is that our first meetings, we, we agreed on that principle.
15:10So then, so then, you know, almost from truly day one, it was never an option for people to walk
15:15out
15:15of the house feeling silly because we agreed we just wouldn't do it if, if that was the world that
15:20we've been in. So then it's all about how do you make it valuable? And that really then comes to
15:23my
15:23second point, which is that, you know, we touched on, on Glass and some of the learnings from Glass
15:28earlier. The other thing that we found is that, you know, you've got to wait to launch your product
15:34until you are sure that you have a lot of value and that you're really, really delivering and that
15:41you have a user experience that people are going to enjoy using and getting these things right takes
15:46time. And so for us, it's been this process of saying, great, do we have the right partners who can
15:52design beautiful eyewear? Check. Are we actually on track to make that beautiful eyewear? Check.
15:58Is it going to be valuable enough? Check. No. And is it going to be really useful? Yeah. So we're
16:05there.
16:05And that's why we're actually here now at this point, excited to launch it. Now, look, there's other
16:10opinions out there which say, look, if you make a product that's, that provides really novel new
16:16experiences, then people might be willing to, you know, to sort of tolerate a design that has some
16:24larger compromises. I think it's great that people are out there testing that theory. It's just not
16:29the approach that Google's taking. We're really leading with design and value. Sure. I want to touch
16:34on privacy, but I wanted to just very quickly address whether or not you think that Google might
16:39make its own smart glasses. Obviously, you have the pixel division that makes hardware. Do you like the
16:44idea of potentially doing your own or is there, there's something intentional, obviously, about
16:49working with partners with this category at the outset, but does that close the door for, let's
16:53say, pixel eyewear or like, can you say anything about that? Yeah. Our, our strategy really is eyewear
16:59first. What we've learned about making eyewear is that, or intelligent eyewear that is, is that there is
17:06so much that goes into it that is as much, or if not more, art than science. We've also learned
17:13that
17:13there's so much to the customer experience of eyewear that we are leading with a strategy that does
17:20partner deeply with the eyewear industry. And, and this is something that, that we're actually quite
17:25committed to. Just the, the nuances of design, the nuances of frame try-on, the nuances of how do you
17:34support somebody with their frame once they have it? How do you help them get prescriptions, lenses in
17:39there? How do you support that, that customer if they're a little uncomfortable? There are so many
17:44pieces to this. And again, leading with the user, we think that the right approach here is to really
17:51lean into the hundreds of years of eyewear expertise that comes from the eyewear industry. So that's
17:56really our strategy. That makes sense. That's where people buy glasses, right? So yeah, it's, it's actually
18:01extraordinary. Depending on which research report you're reading, something between the mid 80s to
18:08the upper 90% of eyewear purchases, or eyewear owners, I should say, eventually end up for their
18:16glasses in a physical store. It could be before they purchase because they want to try them on and
18:22try on a lot of frames, get the right style, send selfies, you know, to people to get input. It
18:28could be
18:28that. It could be that they order them online, and they need to go in store to get a prescription
18:33filled. It could be that they order them online, they just don't fit quite right, that they bent
18:38something, that they got a lens scratched, like for one reason or another people end up there. And this
18:44is where we when you really think it through, we think that the right customer experience involves
18:50eyewear. Makes sense. Well, let's talk about privacy, because there's been pretty big backlash so far
18:56on the internet in terms of how easy it is for smart glasses to violate privacy if they're not
19:01executed in the right way. You've gone on the record, I believe, saying that glasses can fail
19:06based on a lack of social acceptance. And obviously, privacy is a big part of that.
19:11Meta recently deployed stricter status around their LED tampering guardrails as a, as a result of some
19:16of the reporting out there, because there's been a black market offering to disable some of the like
19:21the features like the LED indicator. So what guardrails is Android XR and intelligent eyewear?
19:27What guardrails are you putting in place for this platform for your partners to make sure that there
19:33is social acceptance and that they're the backlash doesn't continue? Yeah. And so as you said, I've said
19:41it before, I'll say it again, which is that if people don't feel comfortable wearing these glasses,
19:45and privacy is part of this, they just won't wear the glasses. That's, it's, it's, it's as simple as
19:52that. You know, if it, you can take anything from our lives. If you feel uncomfortable doing something,
19:59you probably won't do it in public. And, and this, and, you know, smart glasses are just part of that
20:06larger human experience in that way. So what are we going to do about it? There's really, there's quite a
20:12lot of answers. We're going to actually share a lot more later this year, closer to the glasses
20:16launch, but, but I can give you a kind of high level architecture on this one. So first, like you
20:22said, you have the communication both to the outside world and to the user about what the glasses are
20:30doing. So we of course also have LEDs on both sides so we can signal the people around and to
20:36the user
20:37themselves. We've invested a lot in making, in making sure that LED is accurate. Now, even accuracy
20:45is an interesting word where there's one flavor of it, which is to say that somebody hasn't like
20:50messed with it, uh, in some way, uh, and then, and it's still working. So we have a whole plan
20:54around
20:54that. There's also accurate in the say, in the way of saying it's doing what people think it means.
21:00So we're taking a very strict line on what it means, which is that if that thing is recording in
21:06some way, if like, if these glasses are recording in some way, then the LED is on. Uh, so, uh,
21:12so,
21:12so we're being very literal about that. So the people really are in the loop. Um, just to, just
21:17to clarify on that point, like, are you saying that if it's world sensing and helping me find context
21:22of like where that restaurant is or where to make that turn and the, and the cameras are active in
21:27that sense, will the LED be on even if it's not quote unquote recording or, or would it?
21:31It's all about whether somebody can go back and review pixels later. And, and so we'll get into
21:37all of the technical solutions, uh, around this later this year, but it, it really is about this
21:43fundamental question, which is, can you go back and look at the picture later? So if so, that light
21:48should be on. Uh, if not, it's actually bad for the light to be on because it's, it's misleading
21:53people and you never want to mislead. You want to be accurate. Um, and so, uh, and yeah, so we'll
21:58share a lot
21:59of details around this, um, later this year, I should mention that some of the stuff that I'm
22:03broadly outlining, it's things that on a technical side are extremely hard to do. Uh, and the company
22:12is putting a lot of people, time, effort, money into making this, this stuff real. So that's actually
22:18why I'm very eager, uh, to, to do a whole deep dive on this topic is there's, there's really a
22:22lot
22:23in here. Um, second thing that we're doing is that we are using all of the kind of, um, like
22:30software techniques that are available to us. So I can give examples. One thing that we're lucky to
22:35have is Android permission frameworks, which people understand already. Does this app have
22:40camera access? Hey, this, this app has access to your camera. Uh, we have things like play policies
22:46around abuse of any kind of sensor. These have been rolled out for, you know, many years, uh, for,
22:51uh, phones. So they're very hardened processes. So we can use all of those. We can also use things
22:56like, uh, things like private compute core on the phone. So again, something that that we're
23:01fortunate for is that because the glasses pair to the phone for a lot of the compute and what,
23:08and that's where the apps run, it means that we can also use a lot of the security techniques and
23:13privacy techniques that are already on the phone to then add more value into the glasses and make them
23:19them more private. So we're doing those things. And then, yeah, third, uh, I sort of touched on it,
23:23but we're, we're, uh, we are investing to make it so that the hardware itself holds, holds up. So
23:31if people are trying to mess around with it somehow, uh, we have ways of detecting that. So we're making
23:35those investments. So then you do all these things, um, you know, clear communications, using software
23:42techniques, whether they're on the phone, in the cloud, uh, or otherwise, and then really investing in the
23:47hardware. And we think that we have a story that checks out, which is to say, this thing does
23:54communicate. It does do what it's saying. It doesn't, you know, leave people kind of like these sort of
24:00secret backdoors, uh, you know, and those, and those sort of things. And yeah, like I said, we'll
24:04definitely share a lot more information on this later this year.
24:07Okay. In terms of the competition right now, I mean, there's millions of metaglasses that are out there
24:12currently overall, how would you compare your approach to intelligent eyewear, you know, versus
24:17metas, maybe focus more on what you're doing, but, you know, obviously you have the Google ecosystem and
24:22what you're in the Android apps that'll be apparently ready on day one. You have, you say, have Gemini,
24:26um, you know, what fundament fundamentally makes intelligent eyewear different than what's out
24:32there right now? Yeah. Um, so yeah, first, like you said, I think that meta is doing a great job.
24:38They have very nice glasses that they made in partnership with SLR Luxottica. Uh, it's great
24:43to see them starting to get traction in the market and that's good. Um, they've been optimized for,
24:48you know, a set, a set of things and, um, and the glasses that we're working on will do those
24:54things,
24:54things like photos, videos, calls, music, but like you said, really we're, we are taking a pretty
25:01different approach when it comes to user value. So we think a lot about moments throughout the
25:08day. And these moments throughout the day are really the things that are driving our approach
25:14to the platform are driving our approach to how does Gemini show up in glasses? What kinds of hooks
25:21are we making from Gemini into apps? How are apps making themselves available to Gemini? So, so much of,
25:28uh, of our thinking is about versatility. And then, and this is where our approach is all about saying,
25:34like, look, people wear their normal glasses all day long. And even if they're sunglasses,
25:41they wear them for many hours a day. And when they have those glasses on, they will take out their
25:47phones a lot. They'll take them out for a lot of reasons. And what that tells us is that fundamentally,
25:55people want their glasses to be as versatile as their phones. And it's our job to make our glasses as
26:03versatile as a phone and to start to find the value that's appropriating glasses and bring it up so
26:09that people can stay more in the moment that they're in. And then look, if they want to go to
26:13their phone, terrific. They should do that too. Phones are going to be great for a whole bunch of things
26:16that glasses aren't good for that. That's fine. But I think that we can provide a lot of value,
26:22a ton of versatility that helps people stay present in the moment while staying connected to the digital
26:28world and that it finds a balance for people. So, you know, like when we think about what others are
26:32doing, as I said earlier, I love seeing traction in the space. I love seeing investment in the space
26:38and I respect the work that's being done. We are super focused on a different type of product,
26:45which is all about consistent value throughout the day, driven by Gemini AI and by apps.
26:52And just because I'm a nerd, I have a quick marketing question. Why not Gemini glasses?
26:57And as opposed to intelligent eyewear, because there's so much momentum behind Gemini, it's
27:03gaining on ChatGPT. It's becoming like the chatbot of choice for a lot of people. It's integrated into
27:08a lot of apps that people use every day. You know, I was just curious, like why go in that
27:13direction
27:13as opposed to Gemini glasses?
27:16Gemini is such a huge part of the value. And anytime that we talk about intelligent eyewear,
27:22you will see that Gemini is there because it really is the core of the product in many ways.
27:28What's interesting, you know, coming back to some of what we were talking about earlier is that
27:35Gemini is, you know, it's the 800-pound gorilla in the product, but it's not the only gorilla.
27:40There is more value in there, which is that Gemini is not, let's say, you know, your favorite
27:48fitness app, or it's not a ride sharing app. And it's not maps. And so for us, it's about really
27:58saying these glasses are, they're valuable almost beyond even what just Gemini is, even though Gemini
28:07is so incredibly valuable. So, you know, we wanted to go there. The other bigger point, though,
28:13again, taking a step back is that this is eyewear first. And so when these come out,
28:20these glasses will first and foremost be Jenna Lundster, Warby Parker, because we really want
28:27people to feel that they're wearing eyewear. And then after that, you have all the value that comes
28:32into it. So, you know, it can be Jenna Lundster's Intelligent Eyewear or Warby Parker's Intelligent
28:38Eyewear. And then we'll explain what that means. Gemini and so much more. But really, first and
28:43foremost, it's eyewear. Makes sense. Okay. All right. There goes my idea. I had a question.
28:50It's a good idea. I will tell you, Mark, it was discussed. So, you know, like, obviously, you know,
28:56in any naming process, you go through a lot of ideas. And ultimately, we felt that leading with
29:02eyewear was the right approach. Makes sense. So you already touched on
29:07one example already in terms of what agentic AI could mean in terms of being able to wear glasses
29:12that have that capability built in, like ordering DoorDash. But can you give a couple of others where
29:16I think there's a lot of people who, like, are excited by the notion of agentic AI, but they're also
29:22a little bit intimidated by it? Could actually wearing Gemini sort of, not a race, but maybe
29:28minimize some of those barriers? And if so, what can you actually do with it when you're wearing
29:32it as opposed to, let's say, on your phone or laptop? Yeah, it's funny. You mentioned naming.
29:39And I have a personal hypothesis that agentic is a bit of an intimidating word to people who aren't
29:45really comfortable with tech. It's a hard word to understand what it means. And so if you reframe it,
29:52as stuff happens automatically, it becomes a lot more appealing, I think, or at least a bit more
30:02approachable. I'll give you a simple example. Outside of work, I like writing and recording music
30:08on my own. And I just have a real interest in general in the sort of art and the craft
30:14of
30:15songwriting and song productions. One of my interests. I had this conversation with Gemini
30:22Live in my glasses, again, in this case, again, when I was driving. It's funny how frequently that
30:27ends up coming up. And I was just saying, hey, like, I'm interested in listening to some more podcasts
30:33about music production. What are some of the main ones? And so it started with some that I knew about.
30:38So it was like, oh, there's this one called Song Exploder. Yeah. I know Song Exploder. I like it
30:42a lot, but I'd like to go deeper. Can you give me some which actually go a lot deeper?
30:47Oh, sure. There's like, well, one called Tape Notes. And then I said, great. Can you actually
30:53save all of those to a keep list for me, please? So in this moment, that is an agentic action.
31:01Now, it's not necessarily like the giant version of it that people think about, but it's a very real
31:07and practical one that the agentic part of it is that you have this agent scurrying about trying to
31:13like find what I wanted to understand, building on my ideas and collaborating with me. And then it
31:19went and it operated one of my applications that I rely on. In this case, my notes app, Google Keep.
31:25It created a new note. It titled it nicely. It named the podcast. It gave deep links to each of
31:32them
31:33for me. And this is just an example of where, like, you can basically ask the glasses to do
31:41things for you. And it just makes your life easier. Well, just segueing to another type of
31:47eyewear that you're working on with a partner, I feel like the Expert Aura, like to a certain degree,
31:52I had a chance to demo it. It kind of felt like Vision Pro or the Galaxy XR experience shrunk
31:57down
31:57into glasses, which I think is a pretty phenomenal achievement. But you're doing it like with this
32:03split, this notion of the split compute architecture. Can you just walk us through that and also just
32:08sort of like the target audience for this device versus let's say the other display glasses that are
32:13coming later? Yeah. So we think of these wired XR glasses, like XR Aura, not quite as eyewear,
32:22but rather, you know, as a different category. But what's so cool about them, it's what you said,
32:29but sometimes I still pinch myself a bit because of how remarkable it is, is that you take an experience
32:35a fully immersive, wide field of view, world locked, world anchored experience with input,
32:44like, you know, hand input and things. So a headset experience. And you can make it available in
32:50something that's a lightweight, portable form factor. It's quite extraordinary. The split compute
32:58aspect of it is very important. And split compute itself actually does apply both to what we're talking
33:04about right now, XR Aura and also, again, to intelligent eyewear, just executed in slightly
33:09different ways. So with XR Aura, because it's a wide field of view, high bandwidth, immersive experience,
33:16there's a physical cable that runs off to an offboard compute bug. And then in the case of
33:22intelligent eyewear, which has to be great glasses, that's a wireless connection with lower power,
33:27which connects to your phone. But in both cases, you have your applications running somewhere else and
33:32bringing the value up. And this has all of these benefits for scalability, the platform and
33:38enabling all of the apps and AI that we were talking about earlier. So again, so in this category of
33:44wired XR glasses, wide field of view, immersive, but highly portable. What we're seeing right now with
33:50Galaxy XR is that immersive entertainment, so movies, sports, TV, games, those are things that people come
33:57back to over and over again, working in one form or another, whether it's sort of just normal office
34:05work, but with lots of monitors and windows or more immersive work, people are coming back for that
34:10quite a lot. And then when you add Gemini into it, you do get this experience where you have Gemini
34:16running across the whole system, and people get lots of value there. Great. Now, what we understand,
34:21though, is that when you're talking trade-offs earlier, in the immersive category, it's again,
34:28all about trade-offs. So with a fully immersive headset like Galaxy XR, you get the most robust
34:35experience. So it's the widest field of view in all dimensions. You have the most sensors. And that's
34:41great for some people. The people who want that love it, and that's cool. But some people would say,
34:47hey, I'm okay actually giving up some of that. I need to keep the core value, but I'm okay giving
34:53up some of that so that I can take it with me more easily. It's really important to me that
34:57I can be
34:58on an airplane and still having these experiences. It's really important to me that I can take this
35:02experience from my home to the office without it feeling too cumbersome. I work remotely quite a lot,
35:08and when I'm remote, I do like to get out of my house sometimes, coffee shop, WeWork, whatever it is.
35:15For anybody like that, XROS becomes extremely appealing because you can get this work, play,
35:22explore, this immersive environment with Gemini experience, but kind of wherever you want.
35:26And we think that it's going to really be something that people who want that love.
35:32Yeah. I think it could be big, especially for business travelers.
35:36But just adding on to that point though, so do you feel like mixed reality headsets,
35:42as we've known them are, are they dead or is, is that not the case yet? Right? Like,
35:48are they just a bridge to the glasses that we were just talking about? Or do you still feel like
35:53there's a place for them? I think that there's a place for them. So I, I think that just broadly,
35:58um, when you look at this XR category, everything from a fully immersive headset to the lightweight I
36:05wear, and then these stop offs in between, you know, so in between you, you do have things like
36:09wired XR glasses, like extra aura, you have some larger glasses that cut the cord, but they're still
36:14bigger. You know, you have, um, I wear form factors that have like two or one display as well.
36:20I think that these are segments of a category and all of these segments have a place. And some people
36:28will have multiple devices across these segments, uh, depending on how they work. Some people will
36:33only want one of them and it'll just depend. So for immersive headsets, there's absolutely a place
36:39for them. You know, there's a lot of traction in the market for fully immersive experiences. Gaming
36:46gets talked about a lot, but you also do have a ton of value in, in enterprise use cases,
36:51things like remote training, um, things like, you know, Hey, I work in a, in a warehouse. I mean,
36:57you need to see things overlaid. So whether it's, uh, on these, um, uh, sort of consumer applications
37:04or these enterprise applications, there is very real value in the fully immersive space in the headset
37:09space that I think will persist. And then what we'll see though, is that
37:16immersive experiences like do appeal to people, but they, if it's only in a headset, you're cutting
37:22off the number of people who are, who are open to it. So we'll see then these smaller, lighter
37:26categories like extra aura start to rise and time will tell how they all balance out. You know,
37:33with, Oh, this one is this size. This one is that size. We'll see. Um, but I think that they
37:37will persist.
37:39All right. So, um, a couple more questions. Um, two of them are actually Apple related and
37:44I promise they're, they're relevant. One of them is about, look, we know that they're developing
37:48smart glasses, but everything that I've heard so far that they're, they're taking a very vertical
37:52approach where they're designing them in house. You'll likely buy them through them. They're not
37:56working with partners like, like a Warby Parker and that sort of thing. So very vertical and, you know,
38:01up, up, up to what they've done so far, like that's sort of their modus operandi.
38:05But, you know, Google's plan is we're working, there's more of the partner driven model. So
38:09whether it's Qualcomm, Samsung, fashion brands, et cetera, you know, so do you feel like your
38:14approach gives you an advantage or like, how would you sort of, we don't know what the product is
38:18or what it's going to look like yet, but we do know what their approach is going to be.
38:23You know, Apple, they have a very strong track record. Um, and I think that one thing that Apple has
38:30always done, uh, well is that they play to their strengths. Um, Apple, Apple strengths have been
38:37well, well documented. Uh, and I think that what I would expect is that they'll keep doing that.
38:43And I'm sure that they'll provide very real competition for everybody else playing in the
38:47space. Um, something that we're doing at Google with, with our strategy is that we are really playing to our
38:54strengths. And this is something that I'm very happy that we're doing, you know, Google, you can take
39:01any example of our successful products and there's, there's a fee, I can sort of decode them. There's
39:06always a few ingredients there, which is that we generally do well when we make platforms for
39:13computing categories. So when a new category, uh, emerges, we'll make a platform for the category.
39:19And then all of a sudden you see growth. So like Chromebooks, for example.
39:24Yeah. I mean, so laptops are one, but you can look at wearables or auto or TV, you know, I
39:30mean,
39:30obviously mobile phones when we made, made the change, you know, from sort of desktop and laptop
39:34over to mobile. So each time that these categories come along, Google makes a platform
39:39and, and there's a lot of value. Google's a partnerships company. We've always partnered.
39:43And, and so, so, so as you look through when we've done best, it's when we partner. And so,
39:50you know, we're doing that of course in XR as well. And Google's always done best when
39:56these two, you know, the platforms and the partnerships also overlay nicely with our
40:01first party applications, because we can then show up. We have real skin in the game.
40:06Like this is a category that Google is intrinsically motivated in. And that is so true in XR.
40:13There's, um, you know, glasses, whether it's things like, um, or I mean, exit, I should really
40:19just say broadly, whether it's a headset, white XR glasses, intelligent eyewear, these are perfect
40:25for multimodal AI like Gemini. So we're very motivated to do a great job there. Things like Google
40:30Maps, Google Translate. Perfect for intelligent eyewear. We're very motivated. So you put all
40:36these things together and Google's going to do our strategy, which is that there's a new computing
40:40category XR. We made a platform for Android XR. Um, we're going to partner and we're going to get
40:45it out to the ecosystem. It's an open platform. It will partner with lots of companies. So we'll
40:49make it very available. And then you're going to show and see us really showing up with our crown jewels
40:54of, you know, user applications and those will do great too. So, you know, we're going to follow our
40:59strategy. Apple is going to follow theirs and, um, you know, I'm, I'm eager to see what they do.
41:04I'm sure, I'm sure it'll be, be great for, for what they're doing, but I'm, I'm very happy with the
41:09approach that we're taking because we are being us. Cool. At the same time, you're not ignoring the
41:13Apple ecosystem because correct me if I'm wrong. I believe that the intelligent eyewear will be
41:18compatible with the iPhone, right? That's correct. Yeah. Yeah. We started talking about that a little
41:23while ago. Yeah. So, um, you know, again, this is eyewear and the, there's a reality that the phone
41:31space is extremely competitive and Apple has a lot of users of iPhones. And we felt that the right
41:37choice was to make it so that intelligent eyewear works for people and is really great for people.
41:43And if you take that as a, as a starting position, then that means that you have to make it
41:48so that
41:48if you buy, where'd be part of your Gentlemonster Intelligent Eyewear, you know, with Gemini and
41:53Android XR, then you need to be able to get the value from Gemini, from Google Maps, from Google
41:58Shantley, et cetera, uh, when you're using that product and that includes on iPhones.
42:03And do you, are there any circumstances, are there any benefits to, let's say having an Android
42:08phone versus an iPhone for intelligent eyewear, whether it's the, without the audio only glasses or
42:16with the display? Like, are there any benefits to having an Android phone or any like weaknesses if
42:22you have an iPhone? Yeah. There's, there's a bit of an, uh, of a, of a story that it's, it's
42:28not really
42:28about glasses. It's just about platform differences, uh, which, which is that Android is a more open
42:34platform. Uh, and there are some restrictions, uh, within iOS that make it so that we can't provide
42:41quite the same user experience in all cases. And so I think that you will find that the Android
42:47experience in some areas is a little bit more fluid and, and so forth. With that said, we are
42:54being very disciplined on this one to say that if people are buying these glasses, they expect something
42:59and we, we have to follow through on the promise. They are expecting to have all day access to Gemini
43:04and Gemini has to be the full Gemini experience. It can't be crippled somehow. People do expect to be
43:09able to get access to these Google apps, you know, when they do it and so on and so forth.
43:13And so that core value is going to be there. And then there are going to be some areas where
43:19we
43:19have to work around some of the limitations that Apple has in iOS. Can you just give me like one
43:24example of, of maybe something that, um, people won't be able to do because of those limitations?
43:29We'll actually share more of these details later. Um, there's, uh, it, it, it becomes quite involved
43:33in some of them. We're actually even still working through like, does that edge really have to exist?
43:37And so he, you know, uh, we are working on, on a few of those still.
43:41So the magic's still happening in the background. Um, I get it.
43:44So last question is, and I think you've spoken about this before. Do you see smart glasses
43:51ultimately replacing the phone? And if so, when, I think you maybe said at 1.5 to 10 years,
43:57are you accelerating that timetable? Are you pushing it back? Or have you even said anything
44:01about that? I don't, yeah, I don't think I've ever said it actually. And cause, cause my,
44:06my view on this is that for any practical conversation, like people trying to plan or
44:16something like that, or, you know, a developer trying to think of the future of their app or
44:20something like that, uh, the phone is here to stay. Um, phones are incredibly powerful.
44:27They have a user interface to them that is well adopted and highly robust. Um,
44:36and I'm not so sure that there's even a great reason to get rid of the phone, even if you
44:43could,
44:43like at least not without a true magic wand. Um, and so the number of technological breakthroughs
44:53that would need to happen for me to believe that from a user's perspective, it would actually be
44:58better to only have glasses and just not have a phone. Right. It is an extraordinary number of
45:05breakthroughs. And so I just think that for any practical conversation, the phone is here to stay.
45:10People love their phones. The phones provide a ton of value and glasses can fit into their
45:15experience just throughout the day by adding a lot of value on top. It'll shift some of the minutes
45:21that they're spending on the phone to the glasses, which have all these nice benefits because you can
45:26stay more present with what you're doing. You don't get distracted if you don't intend to do that sort
45:30of stuff. You know, you can get more ambient, uh, things that you might've missed. It's, you know,
45:34these, these types of things, but for replacement, just, it seems that we're not on for any
45:40practical conversation. It's not really, it's not really in the cards. Makes sense. Okay. Uh,
45:47yeah, I guess we just gotta be patient about predicting the future. Um, well, Justin, I just
45:51wanted to say thank you for your time. I feel like I'm a lot smarter about your smart glasses and
45:55what's
45:55coming down the pipe and look forward to testing them all when they're available. And for you out
46:00there, make sure you follow Tom's guide for all the news and hopefully reviews when they're ready
46:04of intelligent eyewear. For Tom's guide, this is Mark Spoonhour.
46:09You