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00:03what's up everybody welcome back to another edition of straight out of flushing your boy
00:07dexter henry my guy tyler ward here with you woody what's up man how you doing dex i'm doing
00:14good listen uh the philadelphia phillies have joined the new york mets in cancun so that's
00:19never a bad thing regardless of the brave slaying that dragon and yeah i'm feeling pretty good right
00:24now again um i'm far more in a happy mood in the off season at least in the early goings
00:30of the
00:30off season because there's so much uncertainty uncertainty is fun to buy into uh because
00:35that uncertainty could lead to great things it could lead to terrible things so i probably won't
00:40have the same energy at the time that we're talking now a couple months from now but for right now
00:45though i'm feeling good i'm ready to get into this i gotta be honest i'm kind of judging you a
00:49little
00:49here man you're out here happy i mean i mean i'm happy that you're happy just to be very clear
00:54i
00:55would not be unhappy that you're happy but you're happy that the uh braves got bounced and the phillies
01:00are moving on i'd be i would be happier oh the other way around yeah i'll be happy if the
01:06braves got
01:07bounced because yeah i just i don't like that team i don't know i don't know here's the thing here's
01:15okay so let me we were talking off air on this but just to reiterate for those that don't know
01:21i'm from long island but i've resided in pennsylvania for majority of my life so all i know is philly
01:27fandom around me i mean i'm i'm gonna be you know stuck this weekend around philly fandom as a matter
01:32of fact which i'm not static about but these are just things i have to deal with so that's why
01:36and
01:36that's why you should be happy exactly so here's the thing though very happy that the phillies get
01:42balanced but the braves are a different beast where they bother me more because they've definitely
01:48i think been more of a thorn in the mets side or the past at least like throughout steve cohen
01:53era
01:53if we're just going to shrink it down to that even though i know it's much more than that when
01:57we think
01:57of chipper and everyone else but especially you know the recent years you think of 2022 that still
02:02feels like yesterday for a lot of us mets fans and to see the mets lose a division the way
02:07that they did
02:08it's just one of these things that it's kind of like what could have been so yes um hate the
02:13braves
02:13no doubt about it um it makes it conflicting as we get into the braves dodgers matchups uh we both
02:19want to see la one between the two even though it's really kind of you know picking a lesser of
02:24evils
02:24um but nonetheless my ideal world that no no no no there's a team more evil there it is the
02:31brace
02:31that that that they are more evil but my my ideal world though dex is that none of these teams
02:39gets
02:39the dance will they probably but ideally none of them so can can the padres if not someone else
02:47create that reality i guess we'll just have to wait and see i i do think it's fun that when
02:51you
02:51get to this time when your team's not in it you just get to hate watch this this award he's
02:56participating in a little bit of hate watch but we're not going to talk about the hate watch too but
03:00too long much longer but yeah i'm not you're not going to catch me rooting for the braves that's
03:04all i'm saying that's never going to happen that is not happening at all whatsoever but what we're
03:09here to do today is to talk about the mets rotation what it could look like next year what's your
03:13ideal
03:13rotation for the mets next year so wardy and i talked about this and talked about having this
03:19conversation and we decided we're going to look at what the mets have what we've seen for them in
03:242026 who we think should be part of rotation and what the ideal rotation could be and that means we
03:29can
03:29add in so free agents trades whatever it may be we could do that so i'm gonna you know i'm
03:36gonna lead
03:37off here here's my thing wardy i think if you're a fan you should be reasonably encouraged by what you
03:45saw from the rotation for the most part this year particularly the young arms in the rotation
03:50so i think we all reasonably would agree that no mcclain should be in this rotation going forward
03:59if he's not uh something happened really bad or they made some major upgrade to trade that i don't
04:07see coming or why you'd give up on somebody like him at his age wouldn't do that i'm gonna put
04:11him in
04:12my ideal rotation christian scott thought i saw enough for him this year um to support mcclain in
04:22the rotation and mcclain we could talk about how dope he was uh was era just over three uh pitched
04:29almost 180 innings this year you like all that but christian scott was solid you know he had some shaky
04:34times early on but he showed you that toughness that the mets liked with him and mentally and how he
04:40could battle and give you innings and so i liked what i saw to christian scott he showed me okay
04:45this is a guy who could be a good three worst four starter in your rotation feel feel good about
04:51him
04:51i think he deserves a spot the guy that i probably don't think i would have put in this list
04:56earlier
04:57that i'm going to add to this rotation as another young guy zach thornton very impressed with him the
05:03fact the mets got themselves a lefty that they saw could pitch well i loved how amy green handled him
05:10down the stretch giving him innings where he worked in situations saw where he could get in and out of
05:14jams he looked really good um you know when you look him up he was called up in july right
05:20guys
05:203.42 era 63 strikeouts across 84 and the third innings that's really good he was really efficient
05:28with his pitches uh didn't seem to ever get too frustrated when he got into jams that's something i
05:33look at mental stuff a lot particularly when it comes to pitching not just hitting as well too
05:37so those are three guys for me now here's where it gets interesting for the ideal rotation if i'm
05:44going to keep a met and i'm not i will say for this position i'll get to who i would
05:49add to this
05:49i'm not going to be locked into anything with this if somebody wants to tell me you want to start
05:54the
05:54season with sean mania because even though the velocity was down earlier in the year you liked what
06:01you saw from him towards the tail end of the year you think he could give you some innings it's
06:05a good
06:05veteran to have at the back end of the rotation i hear you on that me personally i'm okay with
06:12moving on if you could trade and eat some of his money and move on from him i'd be okay
06:17with that
06:17and with that being said i'd like to keep a little bit more youth and upside there so i'm going
06:23to say
06:24i saw enough from jonah tong that i would like him in the rotation however what i might do if
06:32you're
06:32the mets that wouldn't be opposed to him doing this if you're not going to move on from a shamania
06:36then maybe you still keep him around as you start training twin training then you have jonah tong
06:43compete with him for that fifth spot i'm not opposed to that i like competition going to camp
06:48i would ideally do that now those are four spots we talked about warty obviously i've left out another
06:54spot and in saying all of this and as much as we love nolan mclean the mets do not have
07:00themselves
07:00an ace so i've been saying this for well over a month a couple of months tarik skuble go out
07:08and
07:08get him get the job done adam is ace if you have him with these young guys after him that
07:16to me is the
07:17ideal rotation because you have yourself a bona fide ace yes you're going to have to go and break the
07:22bank
07:23yes he's going over on the other side of 30 i understand all that however this is a proven
07:29commodity where you know what you're getting this isn't a situation where you're getting the pitching
07:32version of mr palanco okay mr jorge palanco this isn't that this is a guy who has done it at
07:38a very
07:38high level who's a multiple cy young award winner who we know has also been pitched well in the
07:43national league we've seen it with the dodgers now go get a guy like this i think it just takes
07:48the
07:49pressure off of everybody you still have young guys with tremendous upside nolan mclean can move
07:53into that christian scott jonathan can then be empowered to do what he does and then also zach
07:58thornton i think that's the mets ideal rotation keep it young with some upside and go spend some money
08:05and go get yourself an ace and tarik skuble and i would call it a day i don't think you
08:10need to
08:10overthink this i don't think you need to do too much i think you got enough information from 2026
08:14on some of these guys and now i think you just need to go add yourself an ace now that
08:19doesn't
08:19mean they're not going to get the ace they're going to get the ace that is easier said than done
08:22and i
08:23think if you can't get the ace you have to go have yourself a plan b for that and that
08:27might be going
08:28to some other options which i will talk about a little bit later but i do think if it was
08:32for me
08:33to build the ideal rotation for me it's getting tarik skuble and keeping it young with the rest of those
08:37guys yeah there's a reason why i asked you dex before we start our episode today if you could
08:44actually lead with your picks for your ideal plan here because i don't really need to say a whole
08:49lot you know you took a lot of the words out of my mouth from i'm sorry playing to thornton
08:53to scott
08:54no it's vice it's really vice versa because a lot of times i feel like i go on my complete
08:58breakdown
08:59you're like that's exactly how i'm feeling pretty much because it's true like mclean has proven his
09:04worth as a front man in this rotation even though that maybe you don't want to give him that full
09:08ace label
09:08yet i think he deserves that with the season that he had but i also understand wanting more
09:13than just one thing because more of a good thing is never a bad thing for the new york mets
09:17so from
09:18mclean to thornton who i believe is only going to piggyback off of his success this year and i love
09:23the
09:24fact that his off-season emphasis is to build more velocity as long as he can do that while still
09:29having the effectiveness in the strike zone the mets could really have something blossoming for the
09:33greater there to christian scott who i'm really bullish on as well again there's a reason why andy
09:38green has raved about him as much as he has uh prior to andy officially becoming the mets manager
09:43uh during his time in player development to then obviously you have guys like jonathan and jonathan
09:48santucci knocking the doors as well i definitely like the upside with these guys no doubt and i can
09:54see at least one of them if not both of them positively impacting the rotation next year but you
09:58know what dex one thing is certain the mets need certainty as we head into 2027 so because of that
10:05reason my ideal plan is to not acquire one starter but is to acquire two because each off-season the
10:11mets have this tendency to go ahead and acquire one guy when in reality they should have added at least
10:16one more and while i don't fault them for what the thought process was on paper this past year with
10:22freddie peralta again logistically it's it appeared to make sense um you know from a personality standpoint
10:27it appeared to make sense on paper with the numbers it appeared to make sense it just didn't work
10:31again from a small market to a big market and that's something to bear in mind here because
10:36when we look at what players the mets should go after and attempt to acquire you know there is a
10:41smorgasbord of options when we look at the trade market but the issue with the trade market because
10:47even like for example an ideal pick for me if you're going to go ahead via trade maybe say you
10:51don't sign
10:52school because i'm in agreement with you i think that he should be priority number one out of this as
10:57we
10:57get into the free agent market that goes with that same however though separately from that
11:02the mets wanted to be unique in trades say they want to go after joe ryan who of course has
11:07been
11:07in trade conversations last couple years for the twins who's been very solid now the reason i say
11:12that is not just because of the derrick falvey hire because falvey knows him really well during his time
11:17in minneapolis as the pobo there but i also say this with an asterisk because i'm as i'm as i'm
11:23saying
11:23it while the connection would make logical sense and on paper makes logical sense it doesn't change
11:28the fact that it's another guy going from a small market to a big market so the mets be shooting
11:32themselves in the foot yet again and they go ahead with that type of creative plan where they go
11:37acquire starter that's towards the end of their deal and then realize that oh that starter can't
11:42handle this market so because of that reason dexter i want terrick school and the other starter i would
11:48like add into this rotation one of don't need both because you already have got school but i want one
11:54of either clay holmes reunion or a michael kane if he does in fact opt out um i think that
12:00that would
12:00be the most ideal scenario for the mets because you have this beautiful blend of veteran leadership of
12:05guys who have been in big games as soon as this year's postseason run and a blend with the young
12:10movement that you have in the mcleans and the idea of against schoolable working with zach thornton
12:16maybe working with a jonathan santucci and a guy like michael kane working on his game with noah
12:22mcclain two guys who have been known for some nasty horizontal movement with their pitches you know
12:26like there's a lot of excitement there and the commonality as to why michael kane and clay holmes
12:33makes sense is because of that big marketability of guys who have played in new york pitched in new
12:38york arrived in new york and enjoyed their time here i think that's a very important thing to recognize so
12:44schoolable doesn't have that that that's my biggest concern with schoolable with that north
12:48of 400 million dollar investment it's not just because of the natural you know deterioration for
12:53a guy now having already hit his peak in his career most likely but it's also someone who you
12:58can't say la's big market like it is in new york a sports fandom is so vastly different in la
13:04sports
13:05to new york i've seen it firsthand i've been around it firsthand and especially with the winning that
13:09the dodgers have had yes they always have high expectations but like it's harrick schoolable
13:14didn't work out it's not like he's not going to be able to show his face the way he wouldn't
13:18be able
13:18to him and have it you know like if it was like a joey gallo situation that's what the reality
13:23would be
13:23so yeah all in all that that's kind of my stance on it and um i would definitely love to
13:29hear your
13:30thoughts on the matter as well no no so you you went to the two guys who i thought could
13:36be in that
13:37backup option but i love the fact that you're like let's go get two i do have a quick question
13:41for you before i share my thoughts if they are to play the game the way you would like them
13:46to play
13:46it warty and go get themselves two pitchers and be proactive your word of the year here
13:52would that in your mind does that include them bringing back shamanaya or try to move on from him
13:57and you know maybe eat of eat as much as the 25 million that he's owed next year and just
14:02moving on
14:02is that is that part of your thought thought process if they're going to add another pitcher
14:06along with a tarik skuble if that's able to happen
14:11yeah i mean ideally you want to part with sean um obviously you want to get a trade partner for
14:18him
14:18so that way it's not a complete sunken cost at 25 million because there are arguments to be added
14:24where oh sean did have a solid second half this year went deep into games you know gave us around
14:29150
14:30innings is that enough value to justify not just cutting the bait entirely and you can make that
14:35argument completely and that's why i think sean is the most unique case out of players who i don't
14:41anticipate to return next year but you know i think you can make the biggest argument with him over
14:46others now here's the thing though if you keep sean on this roster it likely less incentivizes
14:52someone like david stearns to be proactive enough and landing two starters instead of one yes even if the
14:58one starter is say a frontline starter while the other starter might be more of a back-end guy like
15:03let's say the mets got skuble and the other starter they had in mind was more of a number five
15:08a
15:08veteran or you know just someone that again would be kind of like a griffin canning type competing
15:12for a spot if you will um you know and really a placeholder before ton or sant santucci really runs
15:18away with it um you know even in that scenario uh there is obviously you know um that risk with
15:25what
15:26we were just saying so yeah no that that's that's pretty much where i'm at on it and um it's
15:31one of
15:31these things with sean where you love the personality you love how he is in the clubhouse
15:35you love how everyone around the team raves about him for the most part as a great teammate and you
15:40don't want to lose that type of culture however again this is a results-oriented business the
15:46mets have really sworn and missed with this contract with sean and i the first two years in
15:49i took him a number of months to get his velocity where i think most mets fans and himself wanted
15:54to
15:55see this year after uh deciding not to have surgery uh this past off season on loose bodies in his
16:00elbow so you know i think all in all if sean stays and that hinders the mets from being as
16:06proactive
16:07as he should be that will definitely bother me and i know it'll bother most of the fan base because
16:11it
16:11just feels like a foregone conclusion that we're going to see this be another year where maybe the
16:17one starter is looking good but they're still falling short because either sean is really missing the
16:22mark or maybe ton or santucci isn't developing the way that we're hoping you know it just it's always
16:28good to bolster your rotation and i'd much rather the mets do that where they have a good problem
16:33on their hands and then maybe that entices them to trade one of their younger starters to get an
16:38interesting value in return to add to a greater area of need you know that's the type of thing that
16:43you want to do for the mets and how to position yourself for success and again i i know you
16:48heard
16:49this dex but in david stern's end of season presser he reiterated the importance on the mets to continue
16:54to add depth and how they essentially have been missing the mark on that in recent off seasons
17:00you know you can never have enough every time you think you're comfortable and this is me speaking
17:04you shouldn't be because you know in the snap of a finger two guys through that same position could go
17:09down with injury in a week and then oh my god just like that you shot yourself in the foot
17:13and you're
17:14relying on solely minor league options yeah i'll say this as as we wrap here i agree um i do
17:20think the
17:20depth is important and you want to not just rely on limited options flexibility is important as you
17:26just mentioned too with trades so i love the names you have brought up i love michael king clay holmes
17:30reunion wouldn't be bad for me either but i do think the mets have to look at definitely getting an
17:35ace but
17:35like you said i think it's a great point also making sure you add some depth as well let us
17:40know what
17:40you think in the comments what should the mets do what's your ideal rotation for the mets in 2027
17:46should they go get a tarot scoobal should they add some other arms like wardy wants let us know in
17:50the comments and we will let you know what we think about all that that is a great tyler ward
17:55i'm dex
17:55family we'll catch you next time on another edition of straight out of flushing peace
18:02you
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