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00:03welcome back everybody to another edition of straight out of fleshing your boy dexter henry
00:07with my guy tyler ward aka wardy fresh off a labor day weekend we are back to work wardy what's
00:14good
00:14man dex i'm feeling great listen the new york mets are not making playoffs this year but at
00:20this point what we always say time to focus on the positives right from the youth movement of
00:25the mets have going on with guys like jonathan that we're going to get into to obviously the
00:29guys who have been here and the continued dominance of noah mclean and carson bench there have been
00:33some things to clean on to over this past labor day weekend to be happy about and i'm looking forward
00:38to getting into this deep dive with you today so let's go ahead and do it yeah i want to
00:42get into
00:42it because we saw jonathan make his first start of 2026 on monday on labor day and look i i
00:51think
00:51you're going to have some mixed reactions to his outing okay went five innings he got the win if
00:56that matters for some of y'all doesn't matter for me four hits four and runs one walk seven
01:02strikeouts 87 pitches thrown you look at this line right wardy i would say it doesn't really
01:11describe the outing in totality because you kind of have to take it from how things started right
01:15strikes out his first three batters he strikes out here he generated 12 whiffs through the first
01:21two innings that was a that tied a met stat cast record for the uh most in the first two
01:27innings
01:27of the game so very impressive there right jacob de grom exists too mind you like yes yes in the
01:33world
01:34strike out guys to start their games so not bad not bad right then if you're a mets fan you
01:39kind of
01:40like ah the second inning it gives up four runs in the second inning and this looked like some of
01:45the
01:45stuff we had seen from jonathan before it looked like what we had heard about him earlier in the
01:49minors this year but you know he's pitched well in the minors before getting called up uh last week
01:55so when you looked at this and then he settles down after that right and he's fine so when you
02:04look at
02:04this were you more encouraged by the outing than the four runs in the five innings would suggest
02:10and really just one bad inning for jonathan what what did you take from this outing wardy were you
02:16encouraged by what you saw from him despite looking at that line and saying it really gave up for us
02:21yeah i mean i was encouraged for the following reasons we have to start with the fact that when
02:25you look at the k to walk ratio i mean ton at seven strikeouts is just one walk right i
02:28love the fact
02:29that he was able to command the strikes in the way that he did i also love the fact that
02:32he only allowed
02:32those four total hits leading to those earned runs so it wasn't like he was giving up a hits parade
02:37as well as walking everyone their mother across five innings i also love the fact that after ton obviously got
02:44rocked there and that inning and gave up the amount that he did there uh in the second to four
02:49he
02:49settled down and that was the big takeaway because you had mets fans of course overreacting on social
02:55media i've been there at times we all have been there naturally of saying oh well this is this is
03:00jonathan not a guy we should call up getting getting rocked four runs and two innings text why are we
03:04even having this guy on the on the mound right now in miami what are we doing i'm getting no
03:09family
03:09text me saying i don't know if jonah has i just said let this marinate like there's a lot
03:13of games for one well relax like as someone who used to be so reactionary that way like off of
03:20like the first start or whatever like even if ton did not look good at all i would be saying
03:26there's
03:26a reason why they're giving him a leash now and you should pay attention whether you like it or not
03:30as a fan base that's what the mets are going to do with ton down the stretch here i mean
03:34andy green
03:34just said it himself we're going to continue to rock with ton down the stretch for likely the remainder
03:39of the year now so i'm very encouraged and what we saw ton fall short of are things that we've
03:45been pointing out all along with ton going back to last year i think about this start right away
03:49let me know if you remember this text it's one of times i think it's maybe his third career start
03:53i
03:54could be wrong we're in cincinnati and all he does is give up around four runs and every single run
03:58is
03:58a solo home run just middle middle middle middle like he's he's basically a two-pitch pitcher i know that
04:05he still looks more as a two-pitch pitcher than a guy that has a full repertoire they're still working
04:10on with a cutter and everything else but that was the big bug but they were just sitting heater on
04:14him
04:14and he wasn't pinpointing his corners when you look at how this outing was the first i mean one when
04:19he
04:19gave up the triple to snow hot it was literally middle middle again that was served on a platter
04:23that just comes down to location for ton it doesn't matter how good he was throwing that 96 97 plus
04:29when you serve it up on a tee the way that he did that's going to be the result and
04:33then the grand
04:33polly home run that he gave up that made it a four to three marlins lead at this point before
04:37the mets obviously rallied back and won nine to four you know that was a pitch that was on the
04:41outside corner wasn't even a bad pitch by jonah but it just hit really well and this is a fastball
04:46that obviously is coming across a little flat to these marlins hitters and they were able to pounce
04:50on him but between only giving up four runs settling down after that fourth inning not letting that define
04:56him the way that this is the same jonathan that on friday night baseball against jacob de grom last season
05:02was shaking in his boots and couldn't get out of the first inning i don't believe he got more than
05:06what two outs maybe and that start or so so like i think there's a lot of positives to take
05:11away from
05:11this outing be very different if he was walking a lot of guys if he was really missing location all
05:17over the place i love the fact that he had this swing and miss and dex before i throw it
05:21back to you
05:21yeah let's just dissect a little bit on the arsenal here right because you have the change up they
05:25threw the most in this one the forcing the cutter and the curveball and the change up he threw roughly
05:2940 and it was sitting right around 88 miles per hour and had 1700 on the spin rate this fourth
05:35scene which he threw 31 of the time this one again got hit around a bit more that we saw
05:39city 96
05:40topping 97 98 and he was at 22 to 2300 on a spin rate the cutter new pitch in the
05:46mix for jonah part
05:47of the reason why he's fluctuated with his success in triple a this year up until his past eight starts
05:52where he posted around in two era 23 percent of the arsenal sat right around 91 it was right around
05:5721 to 2200 and last but not least the curveball which went right can be a big weapon for him
06:02obviously it didn't utilize him much at all in this outing however we only saw one swing on it because
06:08he only threw it eight percent of the time seven yeah we're looking at 27 2800 on the spin rate
06:13sitting high 70s so the takeaway here for jonah is when you look at the whiffs especially i mean he
06:19was
06:19able to get good swing and miss on that change up that we saw yep at 40 42 percent for
06:24his right
06:25yep that's that's not bad you know the four seam it just comes down to location you know like it's
06:30no different when no mcclain has not his sharpest outing yet he still gives the mets you know seven
06:35innings of work of three earned runs but he has like four walks and the runs he gave up was
06:40literally
06:40because he was throwing middle middle or his sweeper didn't sweep in a hunt like these things
06:44are going to happen but to the mets fans are saying oh jonathan is not majorly ready i honestly don't
06:50know how that can be your takeaway off of an outing like that personally especially against a
06:53marlin's team while they've swung and missed a lot this year they've also put the ball in play a lot
06:58so give credit where credit's due jonah give up a less than one hit per inning that he found himself
07:01pitching it could be a lot worse yeah he had the one bad inning for me for me the big
07:07there was a
07:08couple things and you got to you got to the pitch mix which i want to come back to really
07:12quickly
07:12um for sure what stood out to me the most was the bounce back ability how did he respond
07:20after the bad second inning that was the key for me he had a rough second and it really comes
07:26down
07:26to two pitches as you mentioned in that second inning that went bad for him and he bounced back
07:30when you look at a young pitcher you want to see how they handle adversity like that does the game
07:35get away from them do they completely collapse jonathan didn't do that you said he was shaking his
07:39boots last seat last season and when one of his starts we saw him you know give up the four
07:44solo
07:44homers in cincinnati last year in september this wasn't that okay this wasn't that at all the fact
07:51that he got 12 whiffs through the first two innings right was very impressive he was on his game and
07:57when
07:57you look at him i think you can look at this line and say okay the four runs but for
08:02me it's what did
08:03he do after that and he was able to settle down and not allow anything after that really bad second
08:11inning that was the key for me what was he able to do he he retired miami without another run
08:17right over the final three innings shut miami down shut the marlins down and so i agree with what
08:25amy green said after the game where he talked about the fact that tom pitched better than his final line
08:30indicated this is why you can't just look at numbers sometimes you got to actually watch the games
08:34right you got to actually watch you mean i shouldn't just scoreboard watch every no no you guys the
08:40nuance of this matters the context matters to all of this right of course you got to look at this
08:44and
08:44i think that takes us to where we got to go next wardy which is okay you kind of touched
08:49on this when
08:50you're looking at jonah tong now and it's one start we're not we're not jumping out the window guys we
08:55understand this is one start back here in 2026 but you're gonna look the thing i think you have to
09:01look at with him and i think we are trying to do here what's actually changed what's changed from here
09:06so you looked at the pitch mix right don't don't get caught up in the four runs don't scout the
09:12era
09:13that's doing a little too much the pitch mix matters i'm so glad you brought that up i'm so
09:18glad you brought it up here's the thing i this was the big thing for me watching jonathan on labor
09:22day
09:23can he mix it up a little bit more do i still think there's room to mix in more pitches
09:28as he gets
09:28comfortable with it at the major league level absolutely but i love the whiff rate he does change
09:33up 33 times in this one right 42 percent whiff rate as you mentioned on the pitch and he got
09:39five
09:39strikeouts on that pitch that's pretty dope that you like there we know about the former seamer you're
09:45right about it it's about location location location would you like to see him a little bit more
09:49confident and i remember talking with my guy nick pollock of nick pitcher list about this would you
09:53like to see him mix in the curveball a little bit more only do seven of them yes you'd love
09:57to see
09:58that because if he can do that and keep hitters off balance this is going to make him better
10:02he's just not as confident in it yet how do you get confidence guys in anything comes with reps
10:08it comes with reps and this is what you're gonna have to see from jonathan but i thought it was
10:13relevant that he was mixing in some of the curveball and the cutter a bit more heavily in this one
10:19than
10:19we've seen and we know the organization has been working on this with him throughout this year after
10:25the struggles that we saw from him in 2025 to just give him more weapons this is what he needs
10:31more
10:31weapons that he is confident in to keep hitters on off balance and so what i'd ask you with this
10:38is
10:39when you looked at the pitches that we saw him in this pitch mix here do you think that he
10:46can start
10:46believing in the cutter a little bit more to become part of his arsenal to be harder for major league
10:52hitters to hit and you know i talked about nick pollock my guy talking about this he believes the curveball
10:59is essential to him becoming a legitimate fourth weapon that he can throw how essential do you
11:05think those two pitches are awardee to jonathan us seeing jonathan 2.0 him reaching that next level of
11:11where he believes in the mets organization believes that he can go well i think it goes without saying
11:17that the goal to see ton is to see him have a level of comfortability and you know god willingly
11:22execution that we saw last year in double a i mean where he was simply unhittable for those opposing
11:28batters and a key part of the reason as to why that was was not only his ability to get
11:32such high
11:33strikeout rates but that curveball had plenty usage throughout the process okay him able to tee up his
11:39fastball sitting mid to high 90s the way that he is and then killing you with the backdoor breaking ball
11:44after the fact there's only so much that you can do when you're teeing that up and not handing it
11:48so
11:48i think this was a nice encouraging first outing for him the curveball and the change up especially
11:53the curveball the curveball is always something that you want to see and your starters mix because
11:57if they can pull down their back pocket at any point and have the execution that we've seen
12:01like when i think of curveball pitches i think it probably won the best to ever do it in the
12:05game
12:05and that's clay and kershaw right and when you have a pitch like dominant like that in your back pocket
12:10that you can use at any point especially as your execution for your put out pitch it's so difficult
12:15for opposing batters to try to tee you up because when you have a fastball that again can blow by
12:21them especially die in your quarters or you can set them up for failure and go to the off speed
12:25and
12:25breaking it just adds a lot more layer and dimension whereas currently speaking when we look at ton
12:30he was effective but there are still some levels of cause for concern that he really is more of a
12:34two-pitch pitcher again heavy fastball and heavy heavy change of usage in this one my question is
12:40next time ton is out there are they going to basically go with the approach where if it ain't broke
12:44why fix it or are they going to go with the approach of let's now dabble a bit more is
12:49any
12:49going to say to jonah ahead of time all right today's game plan is we actually want you to
12:54utilize your curveball at least say 20 today you know what we're going to go all the way up to
12:5930
13:00usage on this just because we want to see the effectiveness of it like maybe there's an emphasis
13:04in similarity to how they went about him in triple a well they go like that to be determined they
13:08might
13:09not do that at all and they may just say let's focus on getting the best results that we can
13:12get
13:12and attack these matters the way that you feel most comfortable but now is that time of year
13:17where as we saw him fluctuate in triple a it's okay if he fluctuates at the big league level because
13:22he
13:22also doesn't have the pressure nor expectation at this juncture in the year which he had last year
13:27rushed up to the bigs in a playoff push and expecting to be this team saving grace i mean that
13:32was ridiculous so at least there's a you know a bit more of a i think a calmer environment for
13:38jonah to
13:39seamlessly come and do what he needs to do to focus on his game and then we'll call it that
13:44on
13:44the 2026 season yeah and i this is the time to experiment for me now you don't want to go
13:50too
13:50far where if it doesn't work well it impacts his confidence right i think there's a fine line with
13:57this there's a fine line here in september but this is the time for him to experiment at the major
14:02league level you know he got out of this start um very well he bounced back over the last couple
14:07innings now you could try to see what he can do more with that pitch mix and that's going to
14:11be
14:11very interesting to me where i wanted to go next with you is i'm very curious if tong stint here
14:20this latest stint can change what the mets need this winter because we are going to constantly be
14:25looking at some off-season talk right because if jonah tong looks like a legitimate 2027 rotation
14:30piece let's say we finish the season and you and i are sitting here we're like hey he's made some
14:35adjustments we're liking what we're seeing with the pitch mix things are looking pretty good for
14:38him does that make signing the ace which i know the mets fan base would like to see and we'll
14:45get
14:45to that soon does that make signing an ace less important if you see good things out of jonathan
14:51or more important where are you on that i don't want to put too much on this young man and
14:57like he's
14:57got to do this for you know to decide what the mets do in their offseason but i do think
15:01it's fair if
15:02you come out of this month and say okay he's a legitimate rotation piece it might think a little
15:07bit about how differently the mets might approach this winter where are you on that are we able to
15:13lump in signing and trades or do you want to stick with solely signing because there's i have a
15:18different point i have a different stance on solely signing versus if we were adding trades into this
15:22equation we're gonna get to a couple of free agents after this that i want well one could be a
15:28free agent um after this trades are listen everything better be on the option for mr david
15:35sterns here so so yes trades trades i'll hold my opinion on the on that player too for a second
15:44because i know okay to it i'll just say that there is a different point of view that i have
15:49when looking
15:49at signing in the market and addressing the ace role than trading and i think a big factor behind
15:56that is one who's available in the free agent market like how deep is the market for said types
16:01of talent versus the trade market and two exactly what are the mets investing when it comes to
16:07certainty so it really has a lot more to do for me as to how polished of a profile would
16:15that
16:15individual be and because jonathan he could look like the best thing since sliced bread for the remaining
16:21month of the year will not change the fact that the mets have to add another starter in this rotation
16:26that confront man it and it's not that noel mclean isn't an ace already because he absolutely is it's
16:31not the fact that zach thornton can't be a viable two or three because he absolutely can it's not the
16:36fact that christian scott can't look like he's continuing to trend upward the way that he most
16:40certainly has and now jonathan the mets have a four-headed horseman of a true homegrown group that
16:46they haven't had in a decade since guys like matt harvey noah synergard jacob de grom steven mats you
16:51know and we're just naming a few there i'm probably there's one more in that mix i'm blanking on at
16:56the
16:56moment let's let's know what i said synergard harvey de grom mats wheeler can't forget wheels he was hurt
17:03a lot of the time you know in the early goings with the mets and i know wheeler was part
17:07of the
17:07carl's beltron trade with the giants years ago i know noah came with darnell as part of the ra dicky
17:12deal doesn't change the fact that they developed here they were homegrown talents here in my opinion
17:16so as much as i love tom i think you still need to add so when we talk about adding
17:22decks please
17:22enlighten me who do you have in mind well let me ask you one other thing before we just just
17:27put a
17:27pin in that okay as much you said as much you love love tong you believe that the mets still
17:33need to add
17:33and it's interesting that you just referenced the last exciting generation of young mets pitchers to come up
17:41uh through the farm system right and you know like you said somewhere through trades but yes they were
17:46developed here and i agree with you is some of your concern or reason for saying that which is mine
17:52i'm
17:52gonna be honest there's only to me there's so many young pitchers that the mets can realistically put
17:58into a rotation and then actually contend if you're talking about contending in 2027 you can't bank on
18:06four out of your five starters being young pitchers in that rotation right where they've only got a
18:11year or two of major league experience i that's a lot to ask i know everybody would love it they'd
18:16love to see it pan out that way i just think that's a lot to ask and for me it
18:21would be a reason to have
18:22pause for cause and that i would go to the point that you made which is okay yeah you gotta
18:28go bolster
18:29this rotation with maybe somebody that's a little bit more proven somebody that's got the profile of
18:34and i like making the distinction an ace or a frontline starter because i think there's a
18:38difference between the two you gotta go get that is your reason that you just don't want to bank on
18:43the youth that much in the rotation because that's my concern i wouldn't do that it's pretty simple
18:48zach's every single year for this mets team we've been banking on like absurd levels of uncertainty
18:53and it would be great if we could go into a year where they at minimum have put someone in
18:58that
18:58position that gives you greater certainty than what even freddie peralta was as a profile heading
19:02of the year which again is kind of a tall task considering the fact that freddie was only one
19:07of nine starters or so in major league baseball or the past three years that pitched around 30 starts
19:12per season gave you 170 plus innings like a three and a half year ray so it wasn't even like
19:17freddie
19:17didn't make sense on paper because outside of the lack of length he gives you in a start he made
19:23all
19:23the sense in the world and it still did not work out whatsoever so it really comes down to
19:28a specific type of profile here but yeah i mean listen no one's been awesome love that no one
19:34needs to continue to be awesome because as soon as no one for whatever reason god forbid to say not
19:38awesome what does your rotation look like then because that's your true leading horse zach thornton
19:44has been great but god forbid if he goes through any sophomore slumps next year that's a problem if
19:49you're banking on him the entire time you know that's why having certainty is a big deal deck so when
19:53we
19:54talk about adding certainty yep what what comes to mind for you well look when you look when you're
20:00talking about free agents and you're talking about the top of the list we got to talk about
20:04to reach school there there's no way you can't talk about him he is going to be the number one
20:09free
20:09agent pitcher on this market this is let me also be clear this is not a great pitcher market for
20:16starting excuse me free agent market for starting pitchers it's not okay this if you're looking for a lot
20:22of sexiness here in terms of free agent you're not going to get it tariq scuble is going to be
20:28number one on the list on all free agents he's going to be the number one uh for starting pitchers
20:32he's won the past two al cy young awards look he started this month with a sub three era he's
20:41now
20:41with the dodgers we know what money the dodgers have but steve cohen and the mets have money and they
20:46should have something to say again we are taking in the fact that we do not know what's going to
20:49happen
20:49with the baseball season next year too that's it here's the thing david your boy david stearns
20:57my boy your boy yes this is all this is all this is all tongue-in-cheek this is all
21:02tongue-in-cheek
21:03to make wardy feel good i generally agree with his pitching philosophies on where he will go to sign
21:12a free agent pitcher he usually would he'll break the bank and give a long-term contract for a guy
21:17that's
21:17in the start of his prime mid-20s 25 26 generally not going to do that for a guy 30
21:24plus
21:25tariq scuble 30
21:31we know that your boy is averse to long-term contracts for pitchers of his age
21:40is tariq scuble this is the question wardy and i i think met a lot of that i think i
21:45know
21:45that's fans would say should he be the mets number one priority this offseason to go out and get to
21:51bolster's rotation and is he the pitcher that is worth breaking the david stearns rules for because
21:58this is his rule he usually is not going to give a long-term deal to a guy like that
22:01school was going
22:02to be looking for the long-term deal he's not going to take a short-term deal and he should
22:05not
22:07let's start with the latter what you just said regarding breaking david stearns's rules yes i
22:12think the mets have all the reason in the world to break some of those rules given what feels like
22:17we've been just bamboozled over the past year and a half you're like for the last year
22:23yeah like like we're allowed to have this you might not love this david but you know we didn't love
22:29signing frankie montas initially right we didn't love heading into the season having the roster
22:34completely the way that it was i liked a lot of the moves and i'm not sitting here saying that
22:38i
22:38don't because a lot of people will say oh wordy's a flip-flopper and things of that nature i'm like
22:42opinions change when results change that's how it always goes i'm not going to continue to advocate
22:48to have certain players on my team and they're not performing well but i'll have it doesn't work
22:52if they were awesome prior why would it not you know what i mean it's just it's as simple as
22:58that
22:58but um yeah i think we i think we have to break some rules or bend some rules a little
23:02bit that'll make
23:03david a bit more comfortable and terek scoobal i think is absolutely an exception to that now
23:07my terek scoobal opinion is going to continue to likely be ever-changing word is currently at the
23:14time of his talking september 8th 2026 is that i would love him to front man this rotation however
23:20i see such a world where it fails miserably of a move for the new york i mean i mean
23:26that's just
23:26that's just and that's and that's more i think it's the mets fan in me as well as now having
23:32covered
23:32the team for over half a decade we've been through a lot of these trial and errors of like big
23:36name
23:36signings big name moves and they haven't necessarily went the way that we wanted them to
23:39and putting that trust in david stearns to be that guy to be that acquisition is also
23:44a bit of a tall task just given the nature of where things have been but scoobal is the greatest
23:49certainty and an ace caliber starter in this market and if you're the mets if you're steve cohen
23:54and this is potentially your last chance to flex your financial muscle to the extent that you've been
23:59able to or the past half decade i think you need to take advantage of that you know this this
24:04might
24:04be your most prime opportunity because we're talking daughters here mark walter the majority
24:08owner for that organization is dealing with a federal investigation because that's what happens
24:12when you fraudulently fund your clubs and do this whole reign with your insurance money
24:17while that is going on the angels have perfectly swooped in with new ownership
24:22taken out arty marino and i've brought in the crunk uh the crunky family if i'm not mistaken
24:27that also own the rams that own the avalanche that own arsenal that own others one more the
24:32nuggets they own a lot of very good organizations i've had a recent championship success they're
24:37going to spend terrick scoble has literally been on record already saying how like i believe that
24:41people that maybe initially did not want to go play for the angels are now going to want to go
24:46play
24:46for the angels because of the environment change the championship pedigree that comes with that
24:50ownership group and their dollars that they're going to spend they're technically wealthier than steve
24:55cohen even though the funds are different they're making a lot of that revenue through the streams
24:59of income from the uh from the respective teams doesn't change the fact that they got like i think
25:04a one and a half to two billion dollars more on steve currently speaking so it changes the dynamic it's
25:09not as much mets daughters as the angels are now going to be in this conversation too so i don't
25:15know
25:15what that's going to entail come the off season it's going to be it's i think it's going to be
25:18bananas
25:18but terrick is a guy that the mets would be foolish not to do everything in their power to try
25:23to land
25:23because signing a player is a guarantee where you're just giving up dollars and potentially
25:28like a compensation pick or something when it comes to trades comes to we've seen trail here
25:34we're dealing with a guy that's going to win mvp this year in the national league because of a trade
25:38that failed essentially right from the inception of five years ago for zach scott and the same new
25:43york mets organization so that's my stance on it right now i'm all for it by 100 this i'm i'm
25:50i have
25:51that pessimistic code on me dex i'm i'm hoping for the best but expecting the worst
25:58look for me i again i said i generally generally and again everybody there's no flip-flopping you
26:06have the right to change your opinion when you get new information right you you have the right to do
26:11that i could have an opinion on something or agree with a philosophy and then i could get new
26:15information and say i don't agree with that philosophy anymore doesn't make me a flip-flopper
26:18makes me a smart person be an idiot somebody who just stands on business for no reason you don't
26:25want to do that yeah well there's nothing to just it would be like me standing on wanting is because
26:29when the pca trade initially happened all those years ago i was live streaming my initial reaction
26:34was i was bummed to see pca get traded because i knew he was a big deal people were concerned
26:40about
26:40the bat but i'm like he's so young like we just drafted him a year ago top pick this feels
26:45stupid
26:46after kalanick like that that upset me because that was at a time where jerry kalanick was still
26:50a coveted piece of the puzzle for seattle you know in that build up so i was upset on that
26:55from but i
26:55was ecstatic on the javi bias frank so i was i was always been a javi bias fan and the
27:00thought of him
27:01playing with lindora as they did in team puerto rico that was sick to me so in the short term
27:06i i
27:06enjoyed it because i liked javi he was awesome here besides the thumbs down notion that i know fans still
27:11are upset about to a degree and then he walked after billy upwork said we'll give you a four
27:15year 120 million dollar contract he said no thanks i'm gonna take uh i believe it's six years or has
27:20an option to get to five or six years and with the tigers and he did that um but that
27:25is a move in
27:26hindsight where he had no i'm very upset that that happened i'm distraught that that's one of the
27:31worst moves without the worst change and that's history and they traded they trade they got rid of
27:36tom siever at one point they traded nolan ryan before he hit his peak that's you know they made
27:41some bad moves and this pca move is already like top five right and sometimes listen sometimes that
27:46stuff happens with prospects and whatnot and and what i'll say here is look i i could lie i would
27:52prefer giving a longer term contract to a pitcher that maybe he's a couple years younger than tarik
27:57scuble but here's my thing are you trying to win or not we say this all the time
28:06it's always are you trying to win or not wardy with a fine when define when for me dex at
28:13this
28:14point right now the goal is to win a world series it's been 40 years it's been 40 years but
28:20now
28:21you're just trying to see your team get back to the playoffs that is all you that's all the
28:26Mets fans want they Mets fans look what the Mets fans been talking about the last two months oh this
28:31team is fun to watch you know i like that they're playing hard it's so much better than the
28:35first half of the season yeah get it you want to see your team have a chance but you know
28:40all that
28:40fun stuff that's going to be out the window in 2027 assuming it's baseball it is going to be about
28:45are you winning or not so here's my thing we have seen the Mets historically spend to get elite talent
28:53here to flush yep they went and did that with juan soto if you were willing to spend historically
29:00to land one of the best hitters of this generation in juan soto which i think anybody would have done
29:08and would do it again
29:12elite talent doesn't come around that often that's the point i'm making and when it does and if you're
29:19serious serious is the word i'm using here about trying to win you have to go get it you can't
29:25be so
29:25what's the word you've used proactivity has been the word of this show throughout this season and
29:29other word i've used is you can't be so rigid we talked about this a lot you started you can't
29:34half-ass something that needs the full 100 effort in no can't do it it's great great point there no
29:41half-assing no half-stepping either you're in or you're out you gotta go and go for it are you
29:49going
29:49to be a true player for tarik scuble are you dipping your toe in the water because i i could
29:54tell from you already i could tell from your energy sir you're not here for the dipping in the water
29:58this offseason dip your toe in the water you're not here for this right and here's and here's the
30:02thing decks if they just dip their toe in the water of tarik scuble it better be because they're
30:07going out and they're trading for an ace that is maybe younger a little controllable that yes you're
30:13going to give up a king's ransom for but you just bolster your trade you just bolster your farm
30:17at the deadline that positions you to be able to do something along those lines right sure have
30:22the mets flex that beyond trading for freddie peralta really no and look what they gave up for
30:27freddie no and and definitely not for a pitcher and not for anybody else now am i against using
30:33assets like you're saying possibly in a trade to go get a younger i won't say ace but frontline
30:39starter no i'm not against that but you know it'd also be nice to maybe keep some of your farm
30:43system intact in case you need to make some other moves after that and spend the money and not be
30:48so
30:48rigid to your rules so for me if the same logic applied for juan soto and i know there's a
30:54difference
30:54in age and years because i know somebody's gonna say whoa dex juan soto was in his mid-20s that's
30:59different from tarik scuble i got you but are you going to find a better pitcher on the market anytime
31:04soon that if you can't trade for because i don't want to i don't want to hear this you can't
31:09come back
31:10with the mid-tier this is the time you have to fortify the staff you have to empower the young
31:17pitchers on the staff that we're talking about and what better way to do it than to have a tarik
31:23scuble in here and have these young pitchers get behind take some pressure off of nolan mclean
31:27take some pressure off for christian scott take some pressure off for jonathan who we just talked about
31:32if he is going to be in this rotation in 2027 having a frontline guy that you can pay and
31:38not give up
31:38anything for you got to do it you got to apply the same logic you went and got yourself an
31:43elite
31:44hitter an outfielder not defensively in juan soto go get yourself an elite pitcher who is on the market
31:52but here's the thing some people might say dex and warty hey i don't know if you should go that
31:58way
31:58that's a lot of money maybe there's a smarter alternative can i throw another name at you sir
32:05here's another one go ahead now this person could be it's not guaranteed to be a free agent could be
32:10a free agent he does have the ability to opt out of his deal with the padres that is michael
32:14king
32:17i would have liked the mets to have got michael king last offseason i was on the record of saying
32:21that i would have minded him he is probably going to be the second best free agent pitcher starter on
32:27the market behind scoobal would you go get michael king and would that would that make you is that
32:36going to make you feel good if you don't get tariff school no let's start there that's an easy
32:44not a chance in hell as a matter of fact michael king i think is is a far greater likelihood
32:51uh what the mets will likely turn out with as we get into wait wait wait because because i think
32:59you're thinking that he fits into the rigidity that we've seen from david stearns it's a david
33:05stearns kind of signing is what what you could see him being like it's a bad option yeah
33:15and when you look at a couple things for michael because the mets have shown interest in michael
33:20this this wouldn't be the first time that they did that dex right this would be the first of
33:24you know they've done it this last offseason they did it one other year as well and michael
33:29roughly 170 170 innings this season as a three-year ray flat the expected numbers aren't great though
33:35which is not surprising because michael's dealt with ailment on and off that's let's not forget that
33:41he had a k per nine the worst of his career as a starter thus far at 7.7 at
33:45a walks per nine of three
33:46and a half i i think michael cain while he would be a nice ad you take so much more
33:52risk with him
33:53because he's a bit of a ticking time mom he's not nearly as much of a certainty in health and
33:58that's
33:58why his contract is structured the way that it is with the padres that's the reason why he initially
34:04signed with them for the av that he did and that's a bit backloaded the way that he is depending
34:08on if
34:08he opts out or not um or i'm sorry it's not overly backloaded that's like he likely will opt out
34:14but michael cain is someone who i think makes sense when you look at new york market there's
34:18the clay home similarity as another former yankee reliever turned starter having success especially
34:24michael cain has been very good in his career but he would not be a needle mover the way that
34:29the mets would need scoobal to be a needle mover he would be someone that like one right as your
34:34middle rotation type starter kind of a similar elk to either you know at times not the sharpest no
34:39mclean or you know a solid christian scott day it's going to kind of fall in that category
34:43where you know yes he might be able to handle the market but is that enough for mets rotation next
34:49year can they bank on four either rookies or sophomores and one veteran who doesn't have the
34:57safest track record of bill and health over it's haric scoobal who is a back-to-back say an award
35:03winner
35:03is on his way to being one of the top pitchers in the game yet again this year
35:07has he peaked already absolutely and that's something that fans need to understand and buy
35:11into you're not buying in terrick scoobal as the guy who's been exactly the way that he has been
35:16the past couple years you're buying him on the track record yes because that's why he's getting
35:21the payout he is but you need to look at it from the stance of how is he going to
35:25project as he goes
35:27from age 31 to say 38 right and that's what the yankees did with max freed and the first half
35:34of that
35:34contract for max free and the yankees will be swimmingly the second half will likely not be
35:39that way unless he's truly a fine wine as he gets more into his mid to late 30s it's not
35:44impossible
35:44but it's not as likely that's why it's very important that when you go after guys like this
35:49you preferably want guys that can handle not a reliance on velocity another thing that scoobal
35:55obviously depends and relies on so as scoobal gets older and gets into his early to mid 30s
36:01how is he going to be able to adapt does he have a game plan to sustain the velocity or
36:06when it
36:06starts to trickle down emphasize more of his off speed and breaking pitches right like these are
36:11game plans i'd like to think the mets will have thoroughly went through with terrick or whoever
36:16has luxury of signing him to a long-term deal entering next season that's very important um but
36:22it doesn't change the fact that even with the risk of losing a guy like scoobal for a year with
36:27tommy john the investment is still so worthwhile because if he is healthy you really can't get much
36:33better than that especially with having the youth movement that they have around him just the snarl
36:39the personality that terrick has on the mound pairing that with a guy like mclean who has his own moxie
36:43who loves to puff out his chest the mets can really build christian scott does it too when he gets
36:48a
36:48little pissed we see the fire on the mound they have something here and i think they're just truly that
36:53one piece away from heading into next season saying uh-oh the new york mets are effing around
36:58they have one of the better better rotations in all the national leagues i don't think they're
37:01terribly far off as is but that piece has to be a needle mover like you said and while i
37:07like michael
37:07king and he's a very good pitcher and i think on a really good day in your rotation he's a
37:12very good
37:13number two to three starter for sure he's not a needle mover you don't want to see the bargain
37:20basement hunting i don't want my calling michael king bargain basement hunting feels a little strong
37:24but you get what i'm saying if you got it is in comparison to terrick it's all relative right
37:32no it's all relative no no no to be fair but in comparison as you said to rick scuba you
37:37have to
37:38go get the needle mover if you can if you're that serious about winning you're trying to take some
37:42pressure off these young guys you got to go get the needle mover and i do think he's a better
37:47investment that doesn't mean to your point that there aren't questions about terrick scuba because
37:51there are right there's no perfect signing where there are no questions at all whatsoever but if
37:57you're really trying to go win go get the guy that can anchor your rotation that is a bona fide
38:03ace and
38:03i don't think there's that many aces around there's frontline starters this is an ace this is a bona fide
38:09prove it two times cy young award winning ace there's no doubt about that you got to go get it
38:14let's close with this wardy i'll make you david stern to your boy again david sterns
38:19well you told never a dull moment dex you told me you're both of us agree we're going scuba over
38:28king right we're not we're not going to cheap route here if you want to go get scuba go get
38:32your guy
38:34right we do also we'd like to see in this month where jonathan will belong in this rotation for next
38:39year we won't know we got to see more from him whether he can compete for the fourth or fifth
38:43spot next
38:44year whether he'll be starting in triple a we'll know by the end of this month i have two questions
38:50for you sure as we close
38:55even if the whether the mets get a tariff scuba or not how many young pitchers are you comfortable
39:01with them carrying into the starting rotation next year and
39:09which of these mets young mets pitchers that we have seen do you trust the most to be part of
39:17i don't say what a championship caliber rotation for this mets team going forward who's the pitcher
39:24you trust the most and how many young pitchers should the mets carry into the rotation for 2027
39:33starting with the ladder no mcclain obviously don't need to think twice about that how many
39:38pitchers i'm comfortable with heading into the season currently speaking yep i would say we're at
39:42right around three and the comfort the comfort changes a little bit with each one but i would
39:48say we're at three just in the sense that like i know christian scott is going to continue to climb
39:53as a starter i'm really bullish on christian i always have i i think back to when he wasn't even
39:57like he still had his partially torn ucl and was putting up the best minor league numbers outside
40:02of paul schemes at the time before his call-up like i'm like you don't just do that unless clearly
40:06you
40:06have the stuff and especially the way that his pitches are deceptive off the mound because it was
40:12high-rising fastball it there's a lot to like there zach thornton honestly my only concern with zach
40:18isn't the fact that he got you know rocked in his latest outing he buzzed his head after the fact
40:23so
40:23talk about making a quick change for zach thornton has had the perfect hair all year has one bad out
40:29he just buzzes it right off so i got i kind of rock with that energy it's like if you
40:34have the mustache
40:34on it like alonzo would shave it off like mid-game sometimes if he was like striking out and everything
40:40he's like i got to do something that was zach zach just needs to not have the the stereotypical
40:45sophomore slump and my comfortability is there with him um i really like zach thornton go ahead i like
40:52no i was gonna say i like your number three i think anything more than that maybe has me
40:57uncomfortable now if you told me it was four young pitchers and tarik scuble is is leading the
41:06rotation i do feel differently right knowing you have a guy every fifth day to take the ball and can
41:13be your stopper if there's a two-game skid three-game skid or something of that nature that feels good
41:19but
41:20you got to have that guy three feels like the right number i'm with you on that i also agree
41:26nolan mcclain is the guy i'm trusting the most to be here when the mets have a championship caliber
41:31rotation um i'm not saying that he's completely untouchable but i think he's as close to untouchable
41:39the young pitchers in the rotation that you would have this all being said is you can get excited
41:44about jonathan and what we saw on monday there still is more work to be done wardy and i know
41:51this
41:53but i don't think it's going to change a damn thing about what we talk about in this offseason which
41:57is
41:57if the mets are going to be serious about winning folks if they're going to be serious about winning
42:02they got to go get themselves an ace they need an ace you want to help these young pitchers you
42:07want to
42:08see them thrive i like wardy and very high on christian scott i have been uh i like his mix
42:13-up i like it i like
42:13his makeup excuse me i like the way he's able to mix his pitches i like his deception i like
42:18the
42:18fortitude he's shown um bouncing back from the surgery this season i think there's a lot to build
42:22on there but they got to go get themselves an ace man that's that's all that's all that we learned
42:30from from here in this episode so while i'm excited about jonathan i'm excited about what we saw
42:34on monday i'm very excited to see what he does in his next start uh and you know how he's
42:40able to
42:40mix up pitches but uh if we want to help these young pitchers out here with the mets gotta go
42:45get
42:46them an ace man so they can feel good about it gotta go get them an ace and listen dex
42:49uh this is no
42:51different than any other heading of the offseason i feel like we've talked about either as talking heads
42:55fans in general every year there's always an emphasis you gotta add to the rotation you gotta
42:59get an ace and every single year the mets have been falling short of that by like one piece
43:04feels like under cohen it feels like every year they're just one guy away they've gotten close
43:09with guys like yamamoto and others over the years but they they have still swung to miss and when they
43:14finally got their guy last year it wasn't their guy it wasn't my guy it wasn't your guy dex
43:20it's it's the tampa bay rays guy now apparently so well it's all i got for you this will be
43:26for
43:26another episode but some people might talk about bringing that guy back we will talk about that i know
43:30that's gonna come up i didn't even want to bring that up in this episode that'll come up in another
43:34episode a little teaser yeah well we got a lot of say on new york mets potentially mets again
43:38we'll leave it well but this is going to do it for this episode straight out of fleshing let us
43:42know
43:42in the comments what did you think about jonathan's first start of 2026 what do you think the mets need
43:48to do to bolster their pitching rotation this offseason should they go get a tarot scuble should they
43:53sign someone like michael king should they do something else we didn't even mention trades we only
43:56talked about free agents there'll be more on trading for pitchers this offseason that
44:00we will talk about on future episodes of straight out of fleshing that's gonna do it for this episode
44:04that is my guy should be your guy too tyler ward aka wardy i'm dexter henry we'll catch you next
44:10time
44:11another edition of straight out of fleshing peace everybody