- 2 hours ago
Diane Yu, Chief Executive Officer and Co-founder of TidalWave, and Joy Johnson, Chief Strategy Officer at Fairway Home Mortgage, join HousingWire’s Allison LaForgia to discuss how TidalWave is helping loan officers work more efficiently, stay mobile and spend more time building trusted borrower relationships.
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00:09I'm Allison LaBorgia from Dallas, Texas with Housing Wire, and today I am sitting down with
00:15Diane Yu from Tidal Wave and Joy Johnson from Fairway. Thank you for joining me, ladies.
00:22Thanks for having us. Thank you.
00:25I am so excited to see you. Diane, I always love to chat with you.
00:29Joy, I have heard fantastic things about you, so I'm going to jump right in.
00:34Sure.
00:34Fairway is a top 10 lender with thousands of loan officers.
00:40Rolling out new technology is where many projects stall.
00:43Why did Fairway choose Tidal Wave and what were you trying to fix?
00:49Oh, trying to fix.
00:51Well, Diane and I have had this conversation many times and Diane loves to say if she finds a problem,
00:57her, you know, her goal is always to fix the problem.
00:59And so we're similar in that sense.
01:01And I think the problem that we are trying to fix is how do we get our LOs really functioning
01:08in one spot, mostly out of the LOS and in the most efficient manner.
01:13And watching Diane and the Tidal Wave team and what they're building really kind of led us
01:19to this conversation of, you know, how can their team help our team solve that problem?
01:25And that's how we started the conversations with Tidal Wave.
01:27And I remember the conversation started two years ago at Housing Wire event.
01:33Oh, OK.
01:34Yes, here.
01:34And then that's when I first got to know Joy.
01:37Yeah.
01:37And I got to know the team.
01:38So, you know, I'm so glad that we're coming back like full circle right now.
01:42Well, coming back to the same place full circle moment.
01:46Diane, I want you to explain in plain English, no crazy AI language.
01:54Give me the honest answer.
01:55What does Tidal Wave do for a fairway LO on a normal Tuesday?
02:00Walk us through what actually changes.
02:03That's super hard because, you know, English is not my first language.
02:07So plain language, plain English, it doesn't work for me.
02:10So I'm going to try.
02:12OK, so on a typical normal Tuesday, what you're going to see is an asylum officer,
02:18you know, they come in, open up their computer or maybe on their phone,
02:22you know, on their way in.
02:23And then they see the list of the all of those applications completed yesterday.
02:29And the loan officer has not got the time to actually look into that yet.
02:33And what they do is they just go after those and see what are the actions,
02:37what are today, you know, what I need to do.
02:39And they send it out.
02:40Sometimes it's about a borrower that missing a particular document
02:43that they have not sent out yet.
02:46And other times it's about, you know, basically get on the phone
02:48and talk to a potential buyer that your partner just refer to you,
02:53you know, as a referral partner.
02:54And then saying, hey, you know what?
02:56Get to know your situation and to help you out.
02:59So that's a busy day of a loan officer.
03:02What I'm hoping for is Tidal Wave what can do.
03:06Tidal Wave can help them to make their life so much easier.
03:09So when they come in during the day, you know what?
03:11Okay, most of the mortgage application has completed already.
03:15Now I just need to reveal and give them a pricing proposal
03:18and everything's on the go, right?
03:20And then that happens before I even got to the office
03:23because I can work so much on my phone, on my laptop.
03:28And instead of, you know, busy being, you know,
03:30like bumped right in front of their, you know, office desk.
03:34And that's the, you know, that's the life of the day
03:37so that we can make your life, you know, as a loan officer easier.
03:41Yeah.
03:41Doesn't everyone want their life to be easier?
03:44Yes.
03:45I want Diane to make my life easier.
03:47So there is definitely some apprehension and concern, Diane,
03:56around AI coming for the loan officer's job.
04:00Now, Fairway's experience suggests something different,
04:05which is exciting.
04:06Where do you draw the line between tasks that AI should handle
04:11and work that needs to stay with the LO?
04:16Should I go try it first?
04:19Right.
04:20So we purposely said what's very important is making sure
04:25that any type of technology can help people connect.
04:29We are not there and going after people's job.
04:33We want to make sure that we make their life easier.
04:35Hence the reason that we name our product.
04:39As an example, we name our product Credit Assist,
04:43Income Assist,
04:44Asset Assist,
04:46Loan Officer Assist.
04:47The reason that we're saying assist is because we want to make sure
04:51the loan officers using our tool can be superhuman
04:56so that they, you know, basically get a lot of things done for them.
05:00They don't have to worry about it.
05:02And then they can spend most of their time connect with people
05:05because that's important.
05:07If you think about it, buying a home is such a big transaction
05:10of one's lifetime.
05:12You need to talk to an individual.
05:14You need to build a connection.
05:15You need to, you know, basically make them feel
05:17they can trust your advice.
05:19We want the loan officer to be out there in the field,
05:22building the connections with human, with real life people.
05:26Yeah, yeah, yeah, I absolutely agree.
05:30I think this industry will never lose a human connection.
05:33So when people say AI is going to replace the LO
05:36or replace, you know, the processor or the LOA,
05:41you know, I've been in this business for 30 years.
05:43I just don't see that being where the direction is going.
05:47I do think that we need to learn how to do more with less
05:51in today's environment as things shrink
05:54and it gets, you know, harder and harder in the industry today.
05:57But that human connection, I just don't see it going away
06:01when you're talking to a first-time home buyer
06:03that is scared, that doesn't know, you know,
06:06what is, how do you calculate my income?
06:09How much can I afford?
06:11What should I do?
06:12They're looking for an advisor to give them advice
06:13and AI cannot do that.
06:15You know, Joy, as a first-time home buyer 30 years ago,
06:20because I don't speak English as a native language,
06:23I don't even know what question to ask.
06:25Right.
06:25I was so scared.
06:27You know, the loan officer was sitting in front of me saying,
06:29give me all those documents.
06:31I send in all those documents, doesn't hear anything back
06:34because guess what?
06:35They don't know either.
06:37They have to go talk to their internal people
06:39in order to get feedback.
06:41And that was such a scary moment.
06:43We want today, in 21st century,
06:46we want to make sure that technology is in there
06:49to help people so that you, as a loan officer,
06:51I know, Joy, you're a loan officer.
06:53You know, you're still doing loans,
06:55especially if you're challenging ones.
06:56I actually had an episode literally today
06:58while we were sitting here.
06:59I was like, oh, look at there.
07:00There's another one.
07:01You're still transacting.
07:02Yes, I am.
07:03Yes.
07:03Can you believe that?
07:04That's awesome.
07:05Awesome.
07:05It is awesome because it means that you are so connected
07:10with what the needs are.
07:11So you really understood.
07:13So this is a really interesting meeting.
07:15So you guys both really understood
07:17how can we best support the LOs
07:20to do what they really do best,
07:22which is making people feel better about their decisions
07:24because it's a really emotional process.
07:26I know we don't like to talk about that as an industry,
07:29but it can be a very, very emotional process
07:32for people who are buying their first house
07:34or their third house or selling a house
07:37that they really, really loved.
07:38And I think sometimes we forget about that.
07:41So when you can have a technology come in
07:44that helps you do that and be that financial advisor,
07:49to me, that's the win, right?
07:53And I would also say using technology
07:54to take away those tasks that take away the time
07:58for you to be the advisor.
07:59So we have a saying at Fairway,
08:02one of the things we talk about is any process
08:04where it's the checker checking the checker,
08:06which is across this entire industry, right?
08:08The processor's checking the LO,
08:10the underwriter's checking the processor,
08:12the closer's checking the processor
08:14and the underwriter.
08:15So wherever you can find that spot
08:17of the checker checking the checker
08:19and solve it with technology,
08:20things just get faster.
08:23And we've also learned we solve a lot of problems,
08:26unfortunately, in post-closing,
08:27and that's not the place to solve it,
08:29but that's where you find some of the problems.
08:31And so we take this vision
08:35of what we call shifting everything left.
08:38So solve the problem.
08:39A lot of times the post-closing issues
08:41could be solved in origination.
08:43And so using tidal wave
08:44and using these technologies,
08:46you can make that process faster
08:48because you're catching them up front
08:50than at the end,
08:52which is not where you want them to be at all.
08:55Now, Joy, you recently put six LOs on stage
09:00to talk about how they use tidal wave
09:02and one of them brought a tablet.
09:05Yes.
09:05Because of how easy it is to use.
09:09What are Fairways LOs doing differently day-to-day,
09:14like using tablets or their phones?
09:16Yeah.
09:17They're getting a lot more mobile.
09:19They're getting up from their desk.
09:21Again, in today's environment, in today's markets,
09:24you know, the connections are so important.
09:26Loans are not just coming to us.
09:28We have to go to them and we have to find them.
09:29And the only way you do that
09:30is you get up from your desk.
09:31And so if an LO has to live in the loan,
09:35you know, the LOS and it's connected to their desk,
09:37they're not getting up and having that conversation.
09:39And so making them mobile with tidal wave is,
09:44you know, again, they're buying a tablet
09:45because that's all they need today.
09:47They don't need to carry around even a laptop.
09:48They can do it from their phone
09:49and they can do it from their tablet.
09:51I was taking apps last night from my phone
09:53and you just, you have to have that mobility.
09:56And that's what these systems allow us to do.
09:58And that's why people are not even using laptops
10:01or using tablets instead.
10:03That's fun.
10:04Because we all know as soon as you step away from your desk,
10:06that's when something pops up on your phone.
10:08Always.
10:09Right?
10:09Yeah.
10:11So Diane, something that I think is so important here
10:14is tidal wave works with real files
10:17that ultimately affect whether someone can actually buy a home.
10:22How do you meet the accuracy and compliance standards
10:25that are required for a lender to deploy the platform broadly?
10:29We always say that we run through a public benchmark
10:33because I'm a believer that if you are good,
10:37you really need to make sure
10:38that you run through a public benchmark study
10:40and not just going up this thing that,
10:43hey, you know, we're really the best.
10:45Right?
10:45So tidal wave spent the time
10:47because of the experience of my team,
10:50we spent the time building the capability
10:53that we call mortgage contextualizer.
10:55So mortgage contextualizer really that,
10:58you know, basically making sure
10:59that we're guiding the borrowers
11:01with the right information,
11:03following all the compliance standard,
11:05which is also the reason like a big lender
11:07like Fairway can use us.
11:09And we also have, as a small startup,
11:11we also have other big lenders using us.
11:14They went through everything with the compliance check.
11:17Guess what?
11:18Our mortgage contextualizer
11:20can answer the compliance-related questions
11:23with a 95% accuracy
11:25compared to any type of thin, riper product out there,
11:29only 42%,
11:30which is critical.
11:32You know what?
11:33As a big lender,
11:34and to be able to get everything
11:35in the compliance-approved way,
11:38and then that's the number one priority.
11:40And the other,
11:42if we're not doing that,
11:44nothing else works.
11:46Now, Diane,
11:47thank you so much for sitting with me.
11:49Joy, thank you so much
11:51for letting me pick your brain.
11:52I want to go back for a second
11:54to something that you guys mentioned earlier
11:56about this being a full circle moment
11:58and how you've had really good conversations
12:01and ultimately how AI really is helping humans
12:06have more human moments.
12:08I want to have a human moment for a second.
12:10Joy, you have a really cool nickname.
12:15Yes, I do.
12:17So at Fairways Culture,
12:18we're very much,
12:19we always say it's the biggest company
12:21with the smallest feel
12:22because we are very family-focused,
12:23very connected.
12:25and part of that starts with Steve,
12:28our CEO.
12:30He loves nicknames.
12:31He's a sports guy.
12:33He has grown up in sports.
12:34We are very tied to sports analogy at Fairway,
12:37and in sports,
12:38there's always nicknames.
12:39And so he gives people nicknames
12:42throughout Fairway.
12:43And so I think I mentioned earlier,
12:44if you get your nickname,
12:45you've been officially baptized
12:47into the Fairway family.
12:49And so after being at Fairway
12:50for a couple of years,
12:51Steve baptized me
12:53with my nickname of 747.
12:55And he loves to tell the story.
12:57I'll tell the story in his version,
12:58and then I'll tell the reality of the story.
13:00So in his version,
13:02the way he likes to say it,
13:03I'm short, obviously.
13:04I'm 5'2".
13:05And so, you know, stand-up desks,
13:07if I've got a desk that's standing up
13:09and screens in front of me,
13:11you really don't see me
13:13because you might see the top of my head.
13:15And so he had walked into
13:17our area.
13:18At that point,
13:19I was running branch sports
13:20and we were in kind of like a,
13:21just a large room
13:22and we were all in there,
13:23sort of like a,
13:24reminds me of like the,
13:25you know, the floors, the pits.
13:27And I was back in the corner
13:28and he came in
13:29and he was having a conversation
13:30and I was responding.
13:32And he's like,
13:33I don't know who's speaking.
13:35I cannot see you.
13:37I was like, okay, very funny.
13:38And he's like,
13:39you look like you're running a plane.
13:41You look like you're running the company
13:42from behind the plane screen
13:43because I had my three computers.
13:44And he's like,
13:45so hence the name.
13:46747 was born.
13:48In his version,
13:50it is 30 screens
13:51and I'm four or five.
13:55But the reality is,
13:57is it just came up of,
13:58he at that moment
13:59looked like I was running things
14:02behind the dash of an airplane
14:04and hence came 747.
14:05Which speaks so much
14:07to the faraway culture,
14:08which I also feel like
14:10that's a culture
14:10that I really love about.
14:12And then that's the reason
14:13why we connected so quickly
14:15because, you know,
14:16at this stage,
14:18and that's such a big company,
14:19Joy has such a big job,
14:21but she's doing loans herself.
14:23You know,
14:24she's still keeping in touch
14:26and she's still knowing
14:28everything that a loan officer
14:30has to go through.
14:31And that to me,
14:32and also that we have,
14:33we have the same culture
14:35at Tidal Wave as well.
14:36You know,
14:37I'm a loan officer,
14:37but I'm nowhere close
14:39to where Joy is.
14:40I want to make sure
14:42that I'm on the front.
14:43I know how to do things,
14:45understand the pain.
14:46Once we understand the pain,
14:48we can really build a solution
14:49that can solve for the pain,
14:51which is what we're
14:52super proud about.
14:54And then,
14:54you know,
14:55I think Tidal Wave
14:56and Fairway
14:57just have a very similar culture,
14:59which is the reason
15:00why we connected so quickly.
15:02One comment that really
15:04in the beginning
15:04was solidified
15:06how similar we are
15:07as companies
15:08is at Fairway,
15:10we have what's called
15:11branch support.
15:12And so it's like
15:12that frontline support team
15:13where if you have a question,
15:15it can be any question,
15:16they email in
15:16and we help them,
15:18whether it's
15:19we direct them somewhere else
15:20or we get them the answer.
15:21Steve Jacobson
15:22is on that email.
15:23And so as the owner
15:24of this company,
15:25of the CEO of this company,
15:26he every day
15:27is seeing emails
15:28that are coming in
15:29from people asking
15:30any question,
15:31like, why can't I
15:32get this to work?
15:33How do I do this?
15:34And so he's seeing
15:35those questions
15:35and that's how he stays
15:36connected to the street
15:37and to what's going on
15:38in the company.
15:39In our first conversation,
15:41Diane shared
15:42how she also reads
15:44and reviews
15:45all of those support
15:46questions coming in,
15:48sitting at her level
15:49and understanding,
15:50you know,
15:50what are the pain points
15:51that are coming
15:51from customers?
15:52And so not every CEO,
15:55not every leader
15:56does that
15:57to maintain the connection.
15:58And so knowing
15:59that we are working
16:00with a partner
16:00that does the same thing,
16:03the synergy
16:03just kind of was magic.
16:05Yeah.
16:06What a fantastic story.
16:08What a fantastic implementation.
16:10I love to hear
16:12always how Diane
16:14is solving problems,
16:15but I also love
16:16to hear how Fairway
16:17is really looking
16:17to make sure
16:18that their LOs
16:19are empowered
16:21in a market
16:21that can be uncertain.
16:23Yeah.
16:24Thank you so much
16:24for both joining me today.