- 2 months ago
The report primarily covers the escalating Saudi-Houthi conflict following missile and drone strikes on southern Saudi cities, alongside strategic analyses of the trilateral Mecca defence agreement involving Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Pakistan.
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00:26Hello and welcome, you're watching India First, I'm Gaurab Savant.
00:29Today, on this special broadcast, I get you details of how a group of highly educated doctors in India, led
00:38by one Dr. Umarun Nabi, conspired to wage war against India.
00:44He called it Gazvai Hind to overthrow a democratically elected government in India and impose Sharia or Islamic law in
00:54India.
00:55That was the conspiracy. And this was a module of highly educated medical professionals, including those who worked as assistant
01:02professors in a medical college.
01:05So, their job was to teach others to become doctors. But here was one who was teaching others to become
01:13terrorists.
01:14So, he taught people to become doctors by day and terrorists by night.
01:19India today has accessed details of the charge sheet filed in the 2025 Red 4 blast case by a group
01:26of medical doctors headed by Dr. Umarun Nabi.
01:31Investigators, during investigations, had dubbed them doctors of death.
01:38The probe reveals they wanted to overthrow a democratically elected government by armed terrorism or their so-called version of
01:49waging jihad against India.
01:5111 innocent people were killed in the Red 4 suicide attack in 2025, November 2025.
01:59India today has accessed the details, the NIA charge sheet that reveals fresh details, not just about the blast, but
02:07the planning that went into it.
02:09The material that was allegedly procured by these doctors, including material that's now being termed as the mother of Satan.
02:16The chart sheet says the Red 4 blast was a suicide terror attack.
02:22And the main accused, Dr. Umarun Nabi, the man you see on your television screen, Umarun Nabi, was inside the
02:29car at the time of explosion.
02:31According to the NIA, he activated the improvised explosive device himself.
02:37He had the command mechanism.
02:40Dr. Nabi, incidentally, was working as an assistant professor of general medicine at the Al-Fala University in Faridabad, adjoining
02:51Delhi.
02:51The NIA says the accused were allegedly following the lone mujahid pocketbook.
03:00What is this lone mujahid pocketbook?
03:02It's how to become an assassin, an Al-Qaeda offshoot linked manual containing operational guidance, not just on explosives, but
03:13on weapons, on covert operations and how to make an improvised explosive device.
03:20So the chart sheet also details propaganda material allegedly linked to the Ansar Gazwatul Hind module.
03:27The material describes existing political system in India.
03:33Now, according to these highly educated doctors who took advantage of that same medical system in our country to become
03:41doctors,
03:42they called the system satanic and tyrannical.
03:46And they advocated overthrow of a democratically elected government through jihad.
03:52And jihad for them was suicide terror attacks.
03:57This chart sheet portrays this armed struggle as their religious duty.
04:03Gazwai Hind, a war against India, a war against Hindustan.
04:08And praises struggles, as they called it, in Iraq, Afghanistan and America.
04:15And they wanted a similar perpetual struggle in India.
04:18So the chart sheet also reveals that these highly educated doctors, you would trust a doctor automatically.
04:27But doctor by day and doctors of death by night, they carried out reconnaissance of the historic Red Fort.
04:35Not once, not twice, not one month, not two months, not six months, not one year.
04:40But for two years, they were constantly figuring out where to carry out a terror attack as close to the
04:49Red Fort as possible.
04:50So December 2023 is when they carried out the first reconnaissance mission.
04:56And November 2025 was when the terror attack took place.
05:00Dr. Umarud Nabi, according to the chart sheet, scouted the site repeatedly with several fellow accused in this case.
05:08Surveillance of targets spanning nearly two years.
05:11The NIS says the historic Red Fort was selected because the Red Fort represents the Indian state.
05:18It is a symbol of India.
05:20There are handwritten notes that have been seized from the Alfala University that rejects democracy and strongly advocates imposition of
05:31Sharia across India.
05:33So these highly educated doctors wanted Sharia across India and not rule of law and not the Constitution.
05:43The NIS says the November 10 blast in 2025 was triggered in panic.
05:49Why was it panic?
05:50Why did these doctors of death who were planning a series of terror attacks across the country, this wasn't a
05:56lone wolf one target attack.
05:58They had planned coordinated attacks across the country and I'll tell you more details and they're shocking.
06:03They're horrifying, especially when a terrorist is highly educated.
06:07It's not like that illiterate Ajmal Amir Kassab and illiterate Pakistani terrorists.
06:12These were highly educated Indian Muslims who were plotting to carry out a terror attack against India.
06:19Why was it panic?
06:21They had earlier fixed a date for a much bigger attack.
06:24But according to the chart sheet, Dr. Umarud Nabi rushed the attack date to evade arrest after a series of
06:32arrests had taken place in Shrinagar.
06:34So he thought the game was up.
06:36Instead of being arrested, he carried out a terror attack and unfortunately 11 innocents were killed.
06:41The Red Fort blast took place on the 10th of November 2025 when a vehicle-borne improvised explosive device or
06:48a VBIED exploded in Red Fort.
06:53According to the NIA chart sheet, 11 people were killed.
06:55Investigation exposes this white collar terror network involving doctors and other professionals with links stretching from Jammu and Kashmir through
07:05Haryana and Uttar Pradesh.
07:06The probe also led agencies to the Alphala University in Faridabad and led to the recovery of a huge quantity
07:13of explosives and other bomb-making material.
07:16The NIA says the accused were linked to Ansar Gazwatul Hind, an offshoot of the Al-Qaeda in India.
07:25This is how devious their plan was.
07:29Their plan included, you know, they were studying how to use drones.
07:35How to use drones, put explosives in that and then take it over vital assets and vital points in our
07:43country and then drop those loitering munition, if I may.
07:48I want to quickly cut across on NIA investigations and chart sheet to India Today's Arvind Ojha, breaking this big
07:55story first on India Today.
07:58Arvind, these doctors were just one Red Fort attack.
08:05What was the idea of the charge sheet that they wanted to kill the government, and they wanted to kill
08:11the government, and they wanted to kill the government, and they wanted to kill the government.
08:16They wanted to kill the government.
08:46which was blasted in the car, the owner of the doctor, the suicide bomber was the same thing as the
08:54DNA sampling of NIA.
08:57The main thing was that this was the whole module of Dr. Dett and Dr. Terror Network.
09:05This was the most important thing in the world.
09:10The most important thing was that this was the pocket jihadist book, which was followed by step by step,
09:20which was made by suicide bomber, which was made by bomb, which was made by attack,
09:25which was followed by the book.
09:27The most important thing was that Al-Qaeda's magazine, which was also made by words,
09:34which was the most important thing.
09:36The most important thing was that the lady doctor was arrested, Dr. Shaheen.
09:41The most important thing was that he was arrested.
09:46He was accused of AK-47.
09:48He was charged with the small weapons.
09:50He was charged with the small weapons.
09:52And in a picture with AK-47, Dr. Shaheen, he was given.
09:56He was charged with the strong weapons, and he has been arrested,
10:18foreign
10:19foreign
10:49So, this is a big scientist who exposed Jammu Kashmir police in Jammu Kashmir.
10:54You told me a big story that these terrorists were actually bringing in UAVs,
11:01unmanned aerial vehicles or drones and getting a rocket.
11:06So, they wanted a kind of a fast-moving UAV laden with explosives.
11:12They were like the mother of Satan, they were like the explosives and chemicals and volatile chemicals.
11:18So, this was the thing that they wanted to do,
11:23that they were just getting closer to the BBC.
11:25They got a doctor, they got the doctor.
11:27If they got a doctor, they got the doctor,
11:30they got the doctor, they got the doctor,
11:32white lab coat,
11:33so, they got the police on them.
11:35They got to go to doctor.
11:36They got the doctor.
11:38They got the doctor and they got their knowledge,
11:39foreign
12:09बगो यह रहे हैं और सथी साथ कुछ ऐसे भी बुक जो एनएय को मिले हैं जिसमें किस तरह से
12:14धोखा देकर रणनीती बनाकर जो यह मॉड्यूल है उसको चलाया जाए इसका भी जिक्र किया गया है नाइय की चार्शीट
12:22में और जो एकस्प्लोसीव रिकवर हुआ है खास्तोर
12:39आतंकवादी हमले को अंजान देने की कोशिश में थे और शायद इसी वज़ा से इतने बड़े पैमाने पर
12:45आमोनीयों नाइट्रेट उसके लावा पोटैसियम क्लूरेट और टीए टी justo से और जो एक्सप्लोसियु हैं इन्हों ने जुटा कर
12:53रखे विए थे और साथी साथ वेभिन्ज भी इनके पास थे agh47 और कुछ एक एक 47 के टिक
13:18Doctors are considered second only to the Almighty, second only to God, because they save lives.
13:25But these were doctors who were planning to take lives and in large numbers and across our country.
13:31And this they called their Gazvai Hind plot, a jihad or a terror war against India.
13:40Some have been waging this or trying to wage this for centuries.
13:44They've failed.
13:45They will not succeed.
13:47But I want to shift focus to our other top story.
13:50The Saudi-Houthi confrontation is escalating once again.
13:54The Iran-backed Houthi forces, they carried out one of their strongest, their biggest attacks against Saudi Arabia and Saudi
14:03interests.
14:03So four southern Saudi cities were targeted and the destruction is big.
14:10The Houthis say ballistic missiles were fired.
14:13Drones were fired.
14:15Unmanned combat aerial vehicles or that their version of a UCAV was fired targeting Saudi Aramco energy facility in Abha,
14:24in Najran, in Juzan, as well as an air base.
14:27A Saudi air base was targeted in Khamis-Mushet.
14:31Saudi authorities say at least 73 people were injured, including women and children.
14:38Saudi Arabia has called this a very dangerous escalation and says it will take necessary operational measures to deter further
14:46attacks.
14:46In fact, Saudi forces carried out retaliatory strikes.
14:49The Houthis now claim Saudi forces or Saudi-backed forces carried out at least 32 airstrikes overnight across four provinces
14:59in Yemen.
15:00And this West Asia escalation has put the focus singularly right now on that Mecca agreement.
15:09Something that was touted as the Islamic NATO.
15:13Turkey is a part of this Mecca pact as is Pakistan.
15:18So Turkey condemned the Houthi attacks backing Saudi Arabia's sovereignty and territorial integrity.
15:24Turkey called on the Houthis to immediately stop aggressive action.
15:29And then there is the other signatory, Pakistan, that claims to have the Islamic bomb.
15:35A nuclear weapon to protect the entire Islamic ummah.
15:40Islamabad did not come to Saudi Arabia's defense.
15:44It condemned the attack from a distance.
15:48But that's about it.
15:49Pakistan called the attacks a flagrant violation of Saudi sovereignty and territorial integrity.
15:54And says it stands in complete solidarity with Saudi leadership and people.
15:59It's almost as if Turkey's statement was copy-pasted by Pakistan.
16:05However, Islamabad stopped short of directly getting involved in this conflict after claiming that it stood with Blood Brothers Saudi
16:14Arabia or Masters Saudi Arabia.
16:16How should we put it?
16:17Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Turkey signed that mega defense agreement just last month.
16:22Under the pact, an armed attack on one is deemed as an armed attack on all three.
16:28And yet, despite Houthis targeting Saudi territories, Saudi people, Saudi interests, their airfields and their oil facilities injuring 73, including
16:37men, women and children.
16:39All Pakistan did was condemn from a distance.
16:42Of course, Pakistan's defense minister Khawaj Aasif says there should be no ambiguity about Pakistan's commitment to the Mecca pact.
16:50Saying Pakistan is bound by terms of agreement and will honor them if and when required.
16:57Listen in.
16:58On the right hand and will go, Pakistan has brought their response to the Mecca.
17:12शादेब जैसा कि आपने ये आखरी फिक्रा खाया है उसके मताबक जो है इस सेफरी की माइदा जो है वो
17:22एक मुल्क पे जो अग्रेशन है वो सतीनों मुल्कों पे अग्रेशन तसाफर की जाएगी
17:27ये इसमें कोई ambiguity या कोई harm नहीं है इसकी कोई clarity की जुरूट नहीं है ये एक joint defense
17:37का मुएदा है और
17:41unprovoked aggression या spillover whatever is happening in German into Saudi Arabia
17:47definitely उससे ये मुएदा जो है operational होगा इसमें किसी को कोई शक नहीं होना चाहिए
17:55we are bound by the terms and conditions of this pact and inshallah taala we'll honor them in case there
18:02is a need
18:05so you think inshallah taala we will honor it in case required how do you decode Pakistan's statement and this
18:13Mecca agreement
18:13and we'll play out those details of the Mecca agreement on your television screen joining me on this special broadcast
18:19is
18:19Ambassador Casey Singh, former Indian Ambassador to Iran, former Secretary in the Ministry of External Affairs
18:25Sushant Sareen is a senior fellow at the Observer Research Foundation, somebody who watches the region very carefully and closely
18:32Ambassador, Pakistan's Defense Minister Khwaja Asif, you heard him, he's been quoting, quoted saying
18:38any unprovoked aggression or spillover of the conflict would activate the Mecca agreement
18:4573 people have been injured, Saudi oil interests have been targeted, airfield targeted
18:50your reading of the Mecca pact, is it largely symbolic?
18:54should it have got activated?
18:58look, we must remember that before the Mecca Act in September last year
19:02there was a mutual defense agreement between Saudi Arabia and Pakistan
19:06that had happened about 10 days after
19:09Israelis attacked Doha
19:12the Hamas
19:14housing in Doha
19:16so that
19:17the implication was that the Saudis rushed to Pakistan
19:22after that even the UAE
19:23president rushed there, then he came to Delhi
19:25they were basically looking at
19:28Israel, how to stop the threat of Israel
19:30now this trilateral thing which is there
19:32traditionally Pakistan has been reluctant
19:35to act against Houthis
19:37remember, like in India, 10-15% of their population are Shias
19:41so last time also, many years ago, when Saudis had been joined by Emiratis
19:47and they attacked, sent their forces into Yemen
19:50Pakistan had refused to deploy forces
19:53they said, we will guard your border
19:56we will deploy them along the border
19:58so that you are not attacked
20:00but they were not willing to fight inside Yemen
20:02now, this trilateral thing
20:05some of the information coming in
20:06now, this is on X
20:08is that Pakistan may bomb some of the Houthi facilities
20:12I think they'll have to
20:13some symbolic act they'll have to do
20:16more than just speaking
20:17because they've taken so much financial help from Saudi Arabia
20:21and they would like the Mecca agreement to at least appear legitimate
20:26that it has some content
20:28but they don't want to take on Iran
20:31that's a very old thing
20:33and they don't remember
20:34that's a very interesting point you make
20:36that's a very interesting point you make
20:38that they've taken so much money from Saudi Arabia
20:40they will have to do something
20:42maybe Yemen, but never Iran
20:44let me just, you know, take that forward with Sushant Sareen
20:47all we've heard from Pakistan is condemnation and regret
20:52so is the Mecca agreement either just symbolic
20:56or gets activated only if
20:59as the ambassador indicated
21:00that Israel attacks Saudi Arabia
21:02if Israel were to do it like Doha
21:04or if Iran were to target Saudi Arabia
21:07and not the Houthi rebels
21:09is this like Mecca agreement conditions apply
21:14look, nobody knows what is there in the Mecca agreement
21:17what exactly is contained in it
21:19when it will kick in
21:22presumably if one of the countries invokes it
21:25it will kick in
21:26but have the Saudis invoked it
21:28and have they declared war on the Houthis
21:32number one
21:33number two, just as a clarification
21:35in 2015 the Pakistanis did not join
21:38or did not send troops to Saudi Arabia
21:40to fight that war
21:41or become part of that war effort
21:44among other reasons
21:45because the Chinese told them that
21:48listen, why are you going with these Arabs
21:49now that we are pumping in so much money under CPEC
21:5340 to 60 billion dollars
21:55will be coming in the next couple of years
21:57you don't need to, you know
21:58go on your knees to the Arabs
22:01which later on
22:02because CPEC collapsed
22:03so now they need to go
22:05because the Chinese are not investing any more money
22:07third, I think the Pakistanis
22:10are trying to wriggle out
22:11look, number one
22:12don't take the Pakistani defence minister seriously
22:15nobody takes him seriously
22:16not even his family takes him seriously
22:18and I think he is a bit of a motor mouth
22:20who shot his mouth off
22:21I don't
22:22I am not sure if he had the
22:25permission of his boss
22:26the army chief
22:27to say what he said
22:29but the fact of the matter is
22:31he is of course added inshallah
22:33now if Allah does not want it
22:35then it will not happen
22:36but having said that
22:37I think let's be very clear about
22:39a couple of things
22:40the Pakistanis will try and wriggle out
22:43partly because
22:44they understand
22:45that some of the
22:47Saudi oil
22:48which was flowing to them
22:49courtesy the Red Sea
22:51it wasn't coming from
22:52the Strait of Hormuz
22:54was not interdicted
22:56by the Houthi firing
22:58for the longest
23:00if the Pakistanis
23:02are going to now start
23:03attacking the Houthis
23:04then any ship carrying
23:06any kind of oil
23:07from Saudi Arabia's
23:09western coast
23:09to Pakistan
23:10or anything from
23:12Pakistan
23:12on that
23:13into the Red Sea
23:15is liable to be attacked
23:17the Houthis
23:17are not going to forgive them
23:19the other part of it is
23:21that
23:21I agree with the ambassador
23:22saying that
23:23they don't want to
23:24take on Iran
23:24but this is why
23:26it is going to be
23:27a tough call
23:27and finally
23:28I don't think the Israelis
23:29ever threatened
23:31Saudi Arabia
23:32in fact
23:32before October 7th
23:35you know
23:36with the IMEC
23:36and other things
23:37coming up
23:37there was a lot of talk
23:39of at least
23:40an informal kind
23:41of an understanding
23:42there was always
23:42an informal understanding
23:43but perhaps
23:44a somewhat more formal
23:46kind of an understanding
23:47between the Saudis
23:48and the Israelis
23:49they were cooperating
23:52quite heavily
23:53on the back channels
23:54on security
23:55and other matters
23:56so the Israelis
23:57have never threatened
23:58the Saudis
23:59and the Saudis
24:00have never really
24:01felt any threat
24:01from the Israelis
24:03in fact
24:04Saudis now
24:05are directly
24:06in the line
24:07of Iran's fire
24:08ambassador
24:08if we were to talk
24:10about the recent
24:12post February 28th
24:13conflict
24:14Saudi oil tankers
24:15have been targeted
24:16Saudi interests
24:17have been hit
24:18Saudi airfields
24:19have been hit
24:19civilians including
24:20children have been hit
24:21Aramco has been hit
24:23and Saudi Arabia
24:24has hit back
24:25at the Houthi forces
24:26four provinces
24:27have been hit back
24:28but is this still
24:29below the threshold
24:31of invoking the
24:32Mecca agreement
24:33that red line
24:34still to be crossed
24:38what will the
24:39Mecca agreement
24:40do which the
24:41Americans have not
24:42been able to do
24:43or the Israelis
24:44have not been able
24:45to do
24:45they bombed as much
24:47they fired as many
24:48missiles
24:48but what Iran
24:50has shown is
24:51it's retained
24:51its retaliatory
24:52capacity
24:53so Turkey
24:55Turkey has another
24:56element
24:56because of the
24:57Kurds
24:58that's a common
24:59factor where
25:00Turks and the
25:01Iranians are on
25:03the same
25:04table
25:05because both of
25:07them
25:07see Kurds as
25:09threatening their
25:09sovereignty and
25:10therefore they work
25:11together
25:11that's why you
25:12would have seen
25:13that when the
25:13Israelis
25:14when the attack
25:15started on
25:16February 28th
25:17Israel said that
25:18they were stopped
25:19by Turkey and the
25:20Americans from
25:21unleashing the
25:22Kurds from Iraq
25:24into Iran
25:24because the Turks
25:26said don't do it
25:27because the Kurds
25:29are spread in
25:30western Iran
25:31in northern Iraq
25:32and eastern
25:34Turkey
25:34so last thing
25:36that they want
25:37Turkey wants
25:38is the Kurds
25:40to suddenly become
25:40very successful
25:42in creating a
25:43larger zone
25:44because that
25:45would affect
25:45so even Turkey
25:47does not beyond
25:48a point want to
25:49take on Iran
25:51essentially I
25:53think Turkey's
25:53problem at the
25:54moment is with
25:55Israel
25:55so for them
25:56the Mecca
25:57agreement is
25:58Israel because
25:58they are fighting
25:59in Syria
26:00and the Israelis
26:01are trying to
26:02reduce the
26:03influence of
26:04Turks in Syria
26:05and that battle
26:07is that contest
26:08is going on
26:09so you know
26:10interesting you
26:10should point out
26:11yeah
26:11interesting you
26:13should point out
26:13ambassador
26:14that for Turkey
26:16the Mecca
26:16agreement is about
26:18Israel
26:20for Saudi
26:22Arabia it's
26:22about Iran
26:23and for Pakistan
26:24is it about
26:25India
26:26Sushant Sareen
26:26so you know
26:27three different
26:27countries sign
26:28one agreement
26:29with three
26:30different enemies
26:31in mind
26:32yeah I think
26:33from the Pakistani
26:34point of view
26:35it will be about
26:36it is entirely
26:37about India
26:37the entire foreign
26:38policy is about
26:39India
26:39nothing else
26:40every other
26:41relationship that
26:42they build up
26:43is with an eye
26:44on India
26:45so clearly
26:46but do you
26:47think the
26:47Saudis
26:47if they can't
26:49protect themselves
26:49and they need
26:50Turkey and
26:51Pakistan to
26:52protect them
26:52do you think
26:53the Saudis
26:54are going to
26:54come to
26:54Pakistan's aid
26:55and fight
26:56against India
26:56I don't think
26:57so
26:57maybe give
26:58them some
26:58money
26:59maybe give
26:59them some
27:00you know
27:01throw some
27:01money their way
27:02maybe give
27:03them some
27:04kind of
27:04diplomatic support
27:05if at all
27:06because that
27:07would then
27:07you know
27:08rebound on
27:09their relationship
27:10with India
27:10which is a
27:11very profitable
27:11relationship
27:12for the Saudis
27:13second using
27:14the Turks
27:15have the
27:15capabilities
27:16and capacities
27:17to send
27:17in you know
27:18an armada
27:19into India
27:19listen
27:21Turkey is a
27:22good power
27:23you know
27:24a relatively
27:25strong power
27:25but what have
27:26they fought
27:27against in the
27:27last what
27:2850 70 80
27:29years
27:30and also
27:31if the Turks
27:32need the
27:33Pakistanis and
27:34the Saudis to
27:35help them
27:35then are we
27:36saying that the
27:37NATO alliance
27:38has collapsed
27:39because ideally
27:40the article 5
27:41that everybody
27:42keeps quoting
27:43all the time
27:43is from
27:44NATO
27:44right
27:44and if
27:46supposing the
27:46Israelis were
27:47to attack
27:47Turkey
27:48do you think
27:49the article 5
27:51of the NATO
27:51alliance will
27:52not kick in
27:53and finally
27:54I think
27:54Gaurav I think
27:56it is critical
27:57to remember
27:57Yemen is the
27:59Afghanistan of
28:00the Middle
28:00East
28:01you don't go
28:02into Yemen
28:03and win wars
28:04you go into
28:05Yemen and get
28:06enmeshed in
28:07endless wars
28:08I think if
28:09people realize
28:09that probably
28:11the Pakistanis
28:11also will realize
28:12it if they
28:13haven't
28:13unless of course
28:14the lucre which
28:16will come their
28:17way or the
28:17money which is
28:18being offered to
28:19them is so big
28:19but once the
28:21body bags start
28:21coming I don't
28:23think the Pakistanis
28:23have a stomach for
28:24long drawn out
28:25wars all their
28:26wars have been
28:2710 days 15 days
28:28those kind of
28:29wars or endless
28:30dirty wars
28:31they lost in 30
28:33in 30 you know
28:35minutes they were
28:36on their knees
28:37but that's a
28:38separate story and
28:38for another day
28:39but Ambassador
28:40Casey Singh since
28:41you referred to
28:412015 you know
28:43that Pakistan
28:44parliament
28:44unanimously in
28:462015 chose
28:47neutrality in the
28:49war against
28:50Yemen so while
28:52they chose
28:52neutrality in
28:532015 have
28:55things changed
28:56in 2026 since
28:57there is a new
28:59pact does that
29:00override the
29:012015 you know
29:03precedent of
29:04neutrality does
29:06the agreement now
29:07create a commitment
29:07that Pakistan will
29:10have to go in
29:10should Saudi
29:11Arabia call them
29:13I don't think
29:14they will deploy
29:14their troops even
29:15the Saudis are not
29:16deploying at best
29:17they may join the
29:20aerial assault but
29:22they will have to
29:22use the bases in
29:23Saudi Arabia for
29:25doing that because
29:26they can't fly all
29:26the way from
29:27Pakistan and then
29:29bomb them they
29:30don't have aircraft
29:31carriers so how do
29:32you how do you
29:32bomb Yemen from
29:34here or the
29:36Houthis from here
29:36so it's it's
29:38complicated but I
29:39think essentially in
29:40the Makkah agreement
29:42Pakistanis are there
29:43to provide the
29:44nuclear deterrence
29:46because they are the
29:47only ones with
29:47nuclear weapons so
29:49nuclear deterrence
29:50against whom it's
29:51against Israel
29:52no one else so
29:54they're essentially
29:55playing their cards
29:56as having the
29:58nuclear weapons and
29:59therefore providing
30:00the ultimate
30:01deterrence but they
30:02may not get involved
30:03in the in the
30:05battles or deploying
30:07troops etc I don't
30:09think they will do
30:10that but they will go
30:11through the drama and
30:12the theater of going
30:13to their help and
30:14making statements like
30:16the defense minister has
30:17done hoping the
30:18current crisis has been
30:19exacerbated because of
30:21the economic pressure
30:22brought on Iran by US
30:25so it's it it will be
30:27difficult to sustain it
30:28but let's see where it
30:29goes because it's only
30:31likely to worsen given
30:32the current situation
30:34Sushant if I refer to
30:35that 2015 parliamentary
30:37resolution of Pakistan
30:38once again it's being
30:39seen as a benchmark
30:40commentators in Pakistan
30:42say we cannot afford to
30:44take on Yemen
30:45directly while they have
30:46troops already deployed
30:48in Saudi Arabia while
30:49they've got their air
30:50defense systems already
30:51deployed in Saudi Arabia
30:52apparently they've sent
30:54some fighter planes
30:55already deployed in
30:56Saudi Arabia would they
30:57be used in combat
30:59against Yemen and
31:00would that then have
31:02massive political costs
31:04for the leadership in
31:05Pakistan 10 to 15%
31:07Shia Muslim population
31:09does that mean another
31:10civil war in Pakistan
31:12I would only look at it
31:14from a sectarian angle
31:15there will be a sectarian
31:16angle but sorry that
31:18would that would become
31:19operative if they get into
31:21a direct conflict with
31:22the with the Iranians
31:24not so much with the
31:26with what is happening
31:27in Yemen because
31:29technically the Houthis
31:30are they Shias are they
31:32not Shias I think the
31:33jury is out on that
31:34it's a very different
31:35kind of a you know
31:37sect in a manner of
31:39speaking second I do I
31:42think the Pakistanis will
31:43try and wriggle out of
31:45actually pumping in troops
31:47and fighting other people's
31:48wars also remember that in
31:51you know Pakistan has had a
31:52long security relationship
31:54with the Saudis but there
31:56are some Pakistanis who
31:57have said recently they
32:00said but we have a
32:01defensive alliance right we
32:03are there to defend
32:05Saudi Arabia we are not
32:07there as an offensive
32:08alliance so our troops
32:10will be there to protect
32:11the Holy Mosque the royal
32:12family the Saudi territory if
32:14somebody was to launch an
32:16invasion so we will be in
32:18defensive positions are
32:19they now going to take an
32:20offensive action against a
32:22third country on behalf of
32:24the Saudis they might well do
32:26it because the Saudis could
32:28dangle the carrot in front of
32:30them and the Pakistani donkey
32:32will you know go for the
32:33carrot but will it because it
32:37will have serious implications
32:39back home not just at the
32:42political level if the body
32:43back start coming back if
32:44they can involved in long
32:46brownout wars but they will
32:47have to denude their own
32:49forces at a time when half
32:50the country is already
32:51spiraled out of control the
32:53rate of the state simply
32:54does not run across the
32:57Indus River so they are in
32:59quite a bit of a pickle they
33:01are not right now going in
33:04for major operations in their
33:06own territory because they
33:08think they will eventually be
33:09able to get over it once the
33:10money starts flowing in but
33:12so far even the money is not
33:13flowing in the Saudis have not
33:15invested any significant
33:16amount of money right now in
33:18fact the Pakistanis are going
33:19to international markets to
33:21borrow money to return the
33:22Saudis their money because they
33:24borrowed it at a fairly high
33:25rate of interest so much for
33:27Riba and you know the laws
33:30against interest in Islam but
33:33you know that kind of hypocrisy
33:35happens oh absolutely so
33:37ambassador you've served in that
33:39region so extensively you've
33:42been our ambassador in Iran you
33:44know West Asia very well you're
33:46reading there's a current
33:47escalation and there's massive
33:49escalation between the US and
33:51Iran Iran claimed that it had
33:53targeted two US warships it
33:56claimed it had taken an unmanned
33:58submersible vehicle of the United
34:00States in its custody it's claiming
34:03that's a massive war trophy US has
34:05been carrying out a series of
34:06attacks on Iranian tankers do you
34:09see this escalate in the days
34:10ahead and on multiple fronts
34:12Houthi front and Iran front
34:14directly I don't see the military
34:16thing escalating but certainly the
34:18economic pressure I think
34:19President Trump has opted for
34:20economic pressure so they're
34:22shooting ships oil tankers of
34:25Iran which were exporting oil and
34:29they are exerting pressure say on
34:30countries which want to buy oil
34:32from Iran now interesting thing is
34:34we are having the BRICS summit over
34:36the weekend and you'll have the
34:38Iranian president here you'll have
34:39the Emirati president also here so
34:42it'll be interesting you know what
34:44kind of discussion goes on and
34:46whether we'll be you know how
34:49exactly what kind of a position is
34:50taken by BRICS collectively on this
34:54because remember the SCO passed a
34:57resolution empathizing with Iran so
35:00China and and Russia are definitely
35:03on the side of Iran so even BRICS
35:05will be interesting but here you have
35:07Iran and UAE and so how what comes
35:12along and remember that when the
35:13foreign ministers met they could not
35:15pass a joint resolution because it was
35:18disagreement on how to how to you know
35:21word the thing about Iran and also
35:24Iran has has hit UAE and UAE is you know
35:29very miffed with that they've carried out
35:31counter-strikes directly inside Iran but
35:34Sushant as an aside the last 30 seconds I
35:37have on this part of the show what does
35:39this Mecca agreement then mean you know
35:41should India seek to punish Pakistan's
35:44state-sponsored radical Islamist terror at
35:47source once again no we will do whatever we
35:51need to do but not because they've signed a
35:54Mecca agreement or they've not signed a
35:56Mecca agreement and I don't see how the
35:58Mecca agreement comes into the picture if
36:00we have to take any kind of an offensive
36:02action if a situation like that comes as of
36:06now I think there's a salutary message which
36:08went around on Pakistan since last year so
36:12they pipe down they will come back they
36:14will launch a major attack but only after
36:17they're sure that they're on a firm economic
36:19footing and they have the diplomatic
36:22clout to be able to carry out some kind of
36:26adventurous activity against India and not
36:29have to you know put their tail between
36:31their legs and then retreat so they will at
36:34that point of time they might try and you
36:36know take some kind of an adventurous action
36:38or if they become too desperate so we have to be
36:42on a constant vigil as far as the parties are
36:44concerned you know ambassador 30 seconds that
36:47I have the latter if they become too
36:49desperate and the situation in Pakistan is
36:52so bad they would be more than desperate
36:54splitting virtually you know Pakistan
36:57government or armies writ does not prevail
36:59west of Indus Balochistan Khaibar Pakhtoonghua
37:02now this trouble with Houthi forces will they
37:06think the only way to unite the country is
37:08another terror attack in India well it's
37:11difficult to say what exactly they they do at
37:14a particular point and many times these
37:16organizations also act without necessarily
37:20the full support of the army so we don't
37:22know whether the moment they are preoccupied
37:24with Taliban on the on their western front
37:28and I think while the war is going on in the
37:30Gulf I don't think they would like to open
37:33another front because the Chinese and the
37:35Russians also wouldn't want it that there
37:38should be another front opened up there's
37:40enough trouble with the Iran war I think they'll
37:42wait and see they'll wait everybody will
37:44wait till the US midterm elections on November
37:47the 4th yeah I think that is and end of
37:50October elections in Israel beginning of
37:53November the elections are in US and the
37:57outcome of those elections will then even
38:00Iran is probably waiting for it to see what
38:02happens because they feel that it might be a
38:04weakened President Trump yes they deal with
38:07after November and therefore they will have
38:10exactly what they want okay so Shansarin you
38:13wanted to come in 30 seconds that's all I have on
38:15the show I don't even I don't even need 30 just a
38:17simple fact one point of disagreement with the
38:21ambassador there are no non-state actors and
38:24there are no autonomous terrorist actors in
38:26Pakistan the guys who attack India from
38:30Pakistani soil are all state proxies they are
38:33all auxiliaries of the Pakistani state they
38:36are all paramilitaries of the Pakistani state so
38:39any action any terrorist attack which happens in
38:43India is not somebody you know on his own
38:45volition carrying out some kind of an attack to
38:49become a spoiler it is something which is state
38:52sanctions states supported by the Pakistani state so I
38:57don't think we should be under any misconception
39:00that somebody has suddenly got in his mind that
39:03he needs to come and kill some Hindus in India
39:06and you know we should give a free pass to
39:08the parties it all comes from the Pakistani state
39:11and the Pakistan you know that's a debate for
39:14another time you've made a very valid point
39:16Ambassador Casey Singh and Sushant Sareen for
39:19joining me here on this part of India first many
39:22thanks I now want to shift focus to a politically
39:26contentious report that's coming from Uttar Pradesh I
39:29want to take you to Saharanpur where a mosque
39:32demolition battle has reached the Ilhamabad High
39:34Court the mosque committee has challenged the UP
39:37administration's actions alleging that the
39:39structure that was demolished it was demolished
39:42without statutory notice or a former formal
39:45demolition order the petition also alleges violation
39:48of the places of worship act 1991 the all India Muslim
39:53personal law board argue that the mosque management
39:57should have been given effective opportunity to
40:00approach a superior court before bulldozers moved in we
40:05get you more in this report
40:11can faith become a license to defy the law can a religious structure claim
40:17immunity simply because it is a place of worship even after the court has upheld
40:24that it stood illegally on a government land that is the question of the heart of
40:29Saharanpur mosque showed up
40:32the mosque committee has challenged the demolition in Alabad High Court alleging
40:37that the administration acted without a statutory notice or a formal
40:41demolition order but here are the facts that preceded the bulldozer action on 16
40:47july city magistrate declared the structure illegal ordered removal within 30
40:52days the mosque committee challenged the order on 20th july arguing that the
40:57structure predated independence on 2nd september the district judges court
41:01dismissed the appeal and upheld the city magistrate order on 4th september the
41:05mosque was sealed before it was demolished a couple of days later
41:11officials say due legal procedure was followed the committee's appeal had been
41:15dismissed and the demolition was carried out in accordance with the city
41:18magistrates order as upheld by the court
41:22as the rubble was being cleared a nearly 20-foot deep brick-lined well was
41:27discovered underneath the structure was photographed and measured soil and brick
41:33samples were collected by an ASI team
41:48the old india muslim personal law board has slummed the demolition arguing that the mosque
41:54management should have been given an effective opportunity to approach a higher court
41:58that the mosque of the mosque was held on a one-time one-time-backed
42:01so the mosque of the mosque had already said the mosque's appeal remained the church
42:07in the building.
42:07The church said he went to the villages to the sch Итак in the city and the sea
42:08and the anger was Barker.
42:12The mosque of the mosque remained in the community.
42:12But in the next morning the mosque remained, along with the mosque, there was a mobilization
42:18between the large mosques and the church.
42:18The mosque became a mosque and the mosque of the mosque was told that the mosque was
42:20around from the mosque.
42:22The mosque marked the mosque's tower and the mosque was called as well.
42:23The mosque is not on a mosque called a mosque.
42:23The mosque called it a black day for democracy.
42:48Akhilash Yadav condemned the demolition.
43:07And when a congress delegation tried to reach Saharanpur, the police stopped it.
43:28The opposition calls it bulldozer politics.
43:31The government and administration say this was enforcement of a court-backed order against an illegal structure on government land.
43:40Bureau Report, India Today.
43:45Bulldozer politics, a due process being followed.
43:48Varis Pathan is not only national spokesperson of the AIMIM, he is also a well-respected lawyer, a high court
43:56advocate.
43:56Joins us on this broadcast, welcome.
43:58Shahzad Poonawala joins us in his new avatar as a political analyst.
44:02Shahzad, welcome.
44:04Yes.
44:05Varis Pathan…
44:06I'm also a trained lawyer.
44:07You're also a trained lawyer.
44:09Welcome.
44:09So, I have two trained lawyers.
44:11Varis practice is in Sharia court.
44:13I go to the normal court.
44:15Okay.
44:16We shall see that.
44:18Calling the high court a Sharia court itself.
44:20Asalaamu alaikum.
44:22Calling the high court and the Supreme court, other courts as a Sharia court itself.
44:26Walaykum sahab, at least come back my brother.
44:29Be a Muslim, don't be a sanatani now, yaar.
44:31I'm an Indian first.
44:32Problem here, Indian first.
44:35Permit me to at least ask the question, gentlemen.
44:41He wants to go by Sharia.
44:42This country runs by Sanvedan boss.
44:45Okay.
44:46Varis Pathan, the government and the court…
44:48I go by constitution.
44:50You want to take it as…
44:50Okay.
44:50So, let's go by constitution.
44:51On the merits of the case.
44:52Gentlemen, the government and the court went by available documents.
44:57The government's case is, there was a structure.
44:59It stood on government property.
45:01It was an illegal construction.
45:03If the mosque committee could not establish its ownership claim, first before the administration,
45:09then before court, sir, you are a lawyer.
45:11How is the government action bad in law?
45:17I will go to that.
45:18But may I ask general simple question to my friend, Shahzad Poonawalla.
45:22Are you just taking Ozampic or Manjaro?
45:26Because you have…
45:26I think you have lost a lot of weight.
45:29I will answer that question.
45:30I will answer that question.
45:31I will answer that question.
45:32First, you answer this question.
45:34Yeah.
45:35Now, see, Gaurav, the first and foremost thing, Gaurav, is that 3rd September will also
45:43be returned as a day, black day in the democracy of our country when our mosque at Saranpur was
45:49demolished through a conspiracy.
45:51Gaurav, a mosque which was from 1911, and I don't say that your reporters who had gone there,
45:57they picked up bricks, and the bricks also, it is written 1909 on the mosque.
46:01You hatch a conspiracy, you kindly listen to the interview which is given by the imam
46:07of that mosque who was doing imamat for the last 22 years.
46:10He gave an interview to a lady journalist called Pooja Mathur, and what he said that
46:14the SDM people came to me saying that we want to seal the mosque, so kindly remove the cameras.
46:19I said, no, why you want to remove the cameras?
46:21They cut the wires of the cameras.
46:23The next day they say, we just want to get the sealing.
46:25But in the midnight, after midnight, 5 a.m. in the night, they come there with the seven
46:30bulldozers and they demolish our mosque.
46:32There were janamases.
46:33There were our holy book, Qur'an.
46:35There were hadith books dying there.
46:36We don't know what happened to them.
46:38So, is this not there?
46:39See, they did not follow the constitution.
46:41They did not follow the democratic values of our country.
46:44There, no rule of law were followed by that, and their freedom of religion, right to
46:48practice freedom of religion is engraved to me by the constitution given to us by Dr.
46:51Baba Sarva Medgar.
46:53What happens to the places of worship at 1947?
46:54That's a very pertinent point you've raised.
46:56Let me get Shahzad Poonawala to respond.
46:58If anything is there, you cannot just go and just demolish our mosque.
47:02Sir, due process was not followed.
47:05Shahzad Poonawala, that is the point that Varas Pathan makes, you know, sealed in the middle
47:11of the night and demolished at 5 in the morning.
47:14They were not given an opportunity to challenge either the government order or the trial court
47:19order in a superior court and demolition was carried out, sir.
47:24Gaurav, my dear friend and a worthy opponent from the other side should be less concerned
47:29about my fat loss and more about his fat loss.
47:32Because you asked him the most simple but most relevant question of the debate and Gaurav
47:37Sarvan said, what action is bad in law?
47:40I would have expected that the Honorable Barrister would have said that, look, this action was
47:45bad in law.
47:46Principles of natural justice were not followed.
47:49Due hearing was not given.
47:5017 months hearing takes place.
47:52Then the matter goes to district court.
47:55District court gives a temporary stay.
47:57The temporary stay runs out on a particular date.
48:00Then three days after the date has run off and these people have not approached any court
48:04of law, higher court of law.
48:06Then the action of the demolition takes place as has been taken for 20 other non-Muslim properties,
48:12Elite Hotel, Falana Hotel, Dimkan Hotel, they have also been killed.
48:16And they don't tell us that Ovesi and Varis are here,
48:20and Manjaro and Ozenpik debate is better.
48:23There is a high court's petition.
48:25Point number two.
48:26Gaurav go back to one year before when my fat was also there and my post was also there.
48:32Varis used to come and say,
48:34Goal is lost.
48:35Time is lost.
48:36The property is going to steal.
48:38Our property is going to steal.
48:39The CA comes now.
48:41It will steal our property.
48:44The government is going to steal.
48:45How many amendments have been stolen.
48:48All the whole Supreme Court has stolen.
48:50This is where it is.
48:51And my fat loss thank you for 6 and for 6 a day at night.
48:55Okay, fair enough, Varish Padhan. Let's talk about fat loss in another show. Let's talk about fact loss or facts
49:05right now.
49:07You know, government and administration are going by facts, by documents on ground that show that a building which was
49:14originally a rest house for visitors was illegally converted into a religious structure without due process.
49:22Sir, because you claim it is a religious structure, can enforcement of law be prevented?
49:31Well, Gaurav kindly look at the facts. The fact is that the place what vakf registered, there are the documents
49:39from Yaakob family and his brothers stating that they have given the land to build a mosque and subsequently, first
49:45the mosque came there, subsequently the collector's office came.
49:48Moss was first. Now, as per the new amended law of the Waqf Act, though we do not agree with
49:54that, but waqf by user will be applicable to the facts and circumstances of the case.
50:00Adverse possession will also be applicable because more than 30 years people were praying their namaz.
50:04But now the facts, Sahiza does not know is that the order was not given for demolition. The order was
50:09for eviction. How can you now demolish, just go there and demolish the place?
50:13Kindly go through the facts of this. And as far as the thing is concerned that we did not move
50:18the honourable high court. And no time was given. Within three days you just go there with the bulldozer and
50:23you just bulldoze the entire masjid, you martyr our entire masjid.
50:26This was far, far earlier than the babari also. There we got a hearing. Here you just go there. Now
50:32one more notice is being given to the Muradabad mosque.
50:35So the BJP government has done a war against the Muslim community. They are totally back foot. So the most
50:42important thing they want to bring before the nation prior to the UP election is that now target the mosque,
50:46target the madrasas,
50:47Katmullah, Pakistan, everything will come. Now the BJP will, people know that the BJP ka ulti ginti shuru ho gahi
50:54hai. There won't be any elections.
50:55Okay. So if I stay on the facts of this case and the point that you have raised.
51:00Such a hurry. Why was such a hurry?
51:02Okay. Why the hurry is point one that you have raised, point two.
51:05Shahzad Poonawala respond. Is there a wider pattern to these actions as Varis Pathan points out?
51:12Moulana Shahabuddin Razvi Bareilvi. He is also alleged that action against mosque is being carried out at a very fast
51:19pace in UP,
51:21Saharampur demolition and the Mustafa mosque in Muradabad. Please respond, sir.
51:26Let's now first tackle the political. Legal point toh kuch nahi aya. The legal point I was expecting was that
51:31three days are also not enough for the honorable big barristers like OEC and Varis Pathan to approach high court
51:37for immediate stay.
51:38Or not for Yaakob kule toh rath ko 2 baje court khulwate hain.
51:42Ah, Afzal ko sharminda ham Afzal ham sharminda chati peathe hain.
51:45Anyway, let me come to this issue.
51:47Now, first my dear friend has said that the demolition started 5 a.m.
51:51I have quoted statement of SDM that it started at 7 a.m.
51:54But if still Mr. Varis Pathan and I request Gaurav Sawal,
51:589 baje ka shwotho da sada nao kar do, Rajdeep ko bol do.
52:01Aap dikha do ki 5 baje ka video. 5 baje ka video dikha do Varis bhai.
52:05Abhi Gaurav ji or mujh ko dhikha do. Second now let me come to the other.
52:09I want to ask. Aap satsh baje ka baje.
52:11Aap satsh baje ka baje.
52:11Acha, chik hai, Rajdeep ka satsh baje ho.
52:14Acha, doussri baat aisa hai.
52:15Ki, dhekhe aisa hai, yeh joh hai, wo narrative.
52:19They said that yogi is anti-muslim, anti-muslim.
52:23Yogi ji na 62 lakh gareebo ke ghar bana hai.
52:25Ek Gaurav Sawant, India today, Varis Pathan ko le jaya.
52:28Ek bata de ki, mohit ko mila, mohammad ko nahi mila.
52:32Gaurav ko mila, parantuh, hamarai koi, Jamal ko nahi mila.
52:44Eek case dikha do na, yeh inka roles ka roona hai.
52:47But Gaurav, I am putting onus on you now.
52:49Every day you are giving this man platform and this man is saying muslim ko kuch nahi huwa, kuch nahi
52:54mila.
52:55They are creating sense of alienation or congress, samajwaadi or party.
52:59Competition, CAP competition. You know what's CAP? Competitive appeasement politics.
53:03Toh Varis wants to be biggest bhaijaan. He says ki yeh kongriss ko hata hao.
53:07Mai bada bhaijaan banu. This is the real competition.
53:11Okay, so Varis Pathan, 30 seconds. Government insists there was an encroachment.
53:17They had a judicial order and action was taken against the encroachment.
53:21You call it a mosque. The BJP alleges and you heard also independent analyst,
53:26Shahzad Poonavana, lawyer, he says there is a deliberate communal agenda that you are spreading, sir.
53:35No, no, no, no.
53:39I am telling you.
53:42There is competition going on in our country that who is a bigger Hindu, who is a champion of Hindutva.
53:49And so all these chief ministers of Suvay Hindu, whether yogi, they are competing.
53:53Jho musalman peh sabsi zahada zulum karega, wo bada hindutvaak ka champion ban ke aayega samane.
53:58This is what is going on. So here you demolish our mosque.
54:02You demolish our madrasat without giving prior notices.
54:05You use the bulldozer politics to the Supreme Court.
54:07Time and again said that the country will run on the constitution, respond to the constitution
54:11and run on the bulldozer. But they don't listen to it.
54:14They don't follow the law. They don't follow the constitution.
54:15Why was such a hurry? Why did you wait? At least give us five days, we will move the order
54:20of the High Court.
54:21Give us six days, move the Supreme Court.
54:22Okay, three days is not enough. Five days is not enough.
54:23Then there was a hurry. You wanted to demolish.
54:25And now I don't know where has enough taken that.
54:27Okay, Shaizad.
54:28I am telling you, Gaurav, today your guest coordinator messed up.
54:32He should have called Varis, then Congress spokesperson and Samajwati.
54:36And they would have all seen, that who is a Muslim?
54:39Yeah, Congress is important.
54:40We are a Muslim. We are a Muslim. We are a Muslim.
54:43We are a Muslim. That is why they are creating this narrative.
54:47Okay, I have run out of time on this part of the show, but this has become a major talking
54:53point.
54:55Okay, it's become a major talking point and we will continue talking about it.
54:59Varis Pathan and Shaizad Poonawala for joining me here on India Today.
55:02Many thanks. It's Saharanpur today. A notice to Muradabad next.
55:06We will track that story. A quick break.
55:09News and updates continue on India Today. Stay with us.
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