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00:00...intelligent as completely nuts.
00:14Your commander-in-chief, the President of the United States.
00:26America sees itself as a no-nonsense place,
00:29where solid values are instilled in the people by rational leaders.
00:33But what happens when the leaders turn to crazy ideas?
00:40I used to put out there in the Old West a wanted poster.
00:44It said, wanted, dead or alive.
00:45All I want, America wants him brought to justice.
00:49In the weeks after September the 11th,
00:51I started hearing rumours that the FBI were using psychics
00:55to predict future terrorist attacks.
00:57And that wasn't all.
00:59A former CIA man told me that the US Army
01:03used to secretly undertake thought death experiments,
01:07try and kill things just by staring at them.
01:10I said that seemed unlikely.
01:12And he said, that's because I wrongly believe
01:14that our leaders are rational people.
01:16This whole area is just crazy.
01:21And there's just as much as much nuttiness
01:24within our CIA and the Defence Department
01:28as there is outside of it.
01:29Why is that?
01:31Because people are basically nutty.
01:34That means there are lots and lots of people out there
01:36in high places in our government who believe in these far out things.
01:42Dr Hyman came to meet us at the suitably surreal Las Vegas
01:46at the end of 2001.
01:48He said he didn't know much more because these things were highly covert.
01:51but he did give me some pointers.
01:54I found people all over the Defence Department
01:57and all over some of our other agencies
02:00be people who would learn to fast
02:02and go on a vegetarian diet, then a biotic diet
02:06and then a... actually could fast for days
02:09without having to eat food at all.
02:11And they also would learn martial arts.
02:13But they also would learn to walk through walls.
02:16And they were going to learn to pick up other people's thoughts
02:19and stuff like that.
02:20And this was serious business, you know.
02:23Some people were actually pushing this.
02:25I said I should try and find out what was going on
02:28if these things are alive today in the war on terror.
02:32And he said good luck.
02:34I don't know what's going on.
02:36It is an area where, you know, it's a funny area, you know.
02:40And it's a mess, by the way.
02:43It's very hard.
02:44Five people suddenly became dictator of the United States.
02:46Which I couldn't... I couldn't drag all this down.
02:49There's no way...
02:50You know, these agencies work by themselves
02:52and there are people who work independent of the agencies they work in, you know.
02:55And you've got all kinds of loose cannons running around there.
02:59It's just a mess.
03:01And so, for the past three years,
03:04ever since my meeting with Ray Hyman,
03:06I've been piecing together the secret history of these experiments
03:09and tracing their ongoing impact on George W. Bush's America.
03:14This film is about how it all began in the 1980s
03:19with General Stubblebine and the goats.
03:45It is the summer of 1983.
03:48The U.S. Army is still bruised from its defeat in Vietnam.
03:53Recruitment is at an all-time low.
03:57Hey, First Sergeant. Good morning.
04:00You can do it in the army.
04:04Over at Military Intelligence Headquarters,
04:07Major General Albert Stubblebine,
04:09who has 16,000 soldiers under his command,
04:12is secretly trying to walk through his office wall.
04:16You know, the electron, or the atom,
04:19is made up mostly of space.
04:22OK, well, my space is made up of atoms.
04:28The wall space is made up of atoms.
04:31All you've got to do is merge the spaces.
04:36But I didn't master it.
04:38John had never got there.
04:40Didn't do it.
04:42Bump.
04:44I just haven't figured out how my space fits through that space
04:49because I kept bumping my nose.
04:51General Stubblebine has never before spoken publicly about these things.
04:56He said he was confounded by his continual failure to walk through his wall.
05:01Maybe, he thought, he just had too much in his intray
05:05to give it the requisite level of concentration.
05:07I didn't.
05:09Couldn't.
05:09Wouldn't.
05:10No.
05:12Couldn't is the wrong word.
05:15I'd never got myself to the right state of mind.
05:19OK?
05:25If you really want to know, it's a disappointment.
05:29It's a disappointment.
05:32The general had no doubt that the ability to pass through walls
05:36would one day be a common tool in the US military arsenal.
05:39This might herald the dawning of a world without war
05:42because who would want to mess with an army that could do that?
05:46The general, like many of his contemporaries,
05:49was still bruised by his memories of Vietnam.
05:53The general was sure that these powers were attainable,
05:56so the only question was, by whom?
05:59Who in the military was geared towards this kind of thing?
06:02And then the answer came to him.
06:05Special forces left!
06:07Your special forces left!
06:09Your left, your right now, pick up the step.
06:11Your left, your right, your left.
06:13Your left, your right now, pick up the step.
06:15If you think about the special forces,
06:17they are massively oriented on the ability of an individual,
06:23first, okay, to do things that an ordinary man can't do.
06:32But I made trips down to Fort Bragg and tried to energise people.
06:38Back in Las Vegas, the CIA psychologist Ray Hyman said that the agency had asked him
06:44to evaluate General Stubblebine around the time of his trip to Fort Bragg.
06:49Lieutenant General Albert Stubblebine III, I think, or the second actually was.
06:57And this is somebody very high up in a minute.
06:59Well, he was the head of Army Intelligence.
07:01So we've got to have supermen.
07:05Each of our operators has got to be at least as good as two or three people.
07:10He had people going to spoonbending parties.
07:13And I once asked his successor, and I asked him if he had been forced to go to a spoonbending
07:19party.
07:19He said, oh, yes.
07:20I said, what happened?
07:21He said, well, the spoon's bent.
07:22He says, but he says, I couldn't see any military application of it,
07:25so I didn't think much of it.
07:28General Stubblebine told me that he decided to start soft with special forces
07:32because he didn't want to alarm them with his big ideas about walking through walls.
07:37So instead, he produced from his bag bent cutlery, and this is what he told them.
07:43If you take a look at that spoon, you can see that that's wrapped pretty tightly.
07:48It doesn't function as a spoon very much anymore.
07:51Look at this fork.
07:52I don't know whether you can see all of the twists and turns in that fork, but that's another example.
08:01And the key in all of this has nothing to do with bending metal.
08:09It has nothing to do with that, okay?
08:13What it has to do with, Lord, mercy.
08:19If I can do that with my mind, what else can I do?
08:26But without much avail.
08:28It wasn't clear whether they thought I was nuts.
08:30In any event, the reaction that I got was, we're not very honest.
08:36The general felt he had nothing to lose, so he suggested one last idea to special forces.
08:43He said they should maybe try and stare at animals and make their hearts explode.
08:48So what did you say to them?
08:51I said, wouldn't this be a neat idea if you could teach somebody to do this?
08:55I mean, I wasn't going to try that on a human.
08:57Right.
08:58Obviously, you can do it with an animal and you can do it with a human.
09:01Yeah.
09:02But special forces didn't seem too interested in that, either.
09:06I left with my tail tucked behind my legs and walked away.
09:13Because I really thought it was a great idea.
09:20For the past 20 years, General Stubblebine has assumed that they considered his animal-staring idea to be crazy.
09:28I assumed it, too.
09:30But then I went to see a special forces sergeant called Glenn Wheaton.
09:35Ray Hyman had told me that Glenn was part of a secret early 80s paranormal military unit called Project Jedi.
09:43You've gone from the front door to the back door, but how many chairs in the house do you know?
09:50You know?
09:50You probably can't tell me how many chairs in my house.
09:54The super soldier would walk through your house and know how many chairs there were.
09:58Yes, he would know where all the lights were, where all the power outlets were.
10:02That would be as a point of observation.
10:04Most people are poor observers.
10:07They don't know.
10:08They haven't even got a clue about what's really happening around them.
10:12In Project Jedi, what was the layer above observation and that kind of stuff?
10:18Intuition.
10:19Is there some way we can develop you so that you make correct decisions?
10:23Like, you know, somebody runs up to you and says,
10:26Hey, there's a fork in the road. Do we turn left or do we turn right?
10:29And you go, we go right.
10:30What were the other kind of extreme theories that were sort of mooted?
10:37We had a master sergeant that could stop the heart of a goat.
10:40What, just by looking at it?
10:42Just by wanting the goat's heart to stop.
10:45And could he actually do it? Did the goat's heart stop?
10:48Oh.
10:48He did it at least once.
10:52So, but not really an area that you want to...
10:56Go to?
10:56Unless you get, you know, not really an area that you really want to go to.
11:00Because as it, I think as it turned out in the evaluation,
11:04he actually did some damage to himself as well.
11:07Oh.
11:08Sympathetic injury.
11:09Really?
11:10Yeah.
11:11So it wasn't as if the goat was psychically fighting?
11:15The goat didn't have a chance.
11:17This happened down at Fort Bragett where it was called Goat Lab at the time.
11:23So had Special Forces stolen General Stubblebine's idea?
11:28Or was it a coincidence?
11:29Had they been staring at goats anyway and they just didn't want him interfering?
11:34And was the goat staring back post 9-11?
11:37I decided to try and find the answer to these questions.
11:57I decided to try and find the answer to these questions.
12:02I'm not sure.
12:03I'm not sure.
12:03I'm not sure.
12:03I'm not sure.
12:03I'm not sure.
12:05I'm not sure.
12:06I'm not sure.
12:06At this point, he is nothing special added.
12:12You steam fresh meals from Birdseye.
12:14We don't play with your food.
12:33Knockout value on a Citroen Zara Picasso, now available for just £9.995.
12:38World Championship value from Citroen, the World Rally Champions for 2004.
12:42Offer guaranteed until the 30th of November.
13:14Transcription by CastingWords
13:44Transcription by CastingWords
13:49My shop, it's round the clock.
13:51My bank, clocked off.
13:54My Indian, it's local.
13:56My bank, India.
13:59My barber, a person.
14:02My bank, a robot.
14:05We believe in another way.
14:07More people in branch.
14:08UK call centres only.
14:10And phones answered 24-7.
14:11My patients, exhausted.
14:13My account, switched.
14:19The Callaghan family must behave like aristocracy for six weeks to win £50,000.
14:25A lady, and he's the law.
14:28Yeah, you may be a lady.
14:30But you ain't no f*** ahead of me.
14:31But what they don't know is, it's their own staff judging them.
14:35What the Butler Saw, Thursday at 10 on 4.
14:43I called Fort Bragg and asked if I could see Goat Lab, but they said they didn't know what I
14:48was talking about.
14:49But they let me film shots of the base, and off camera, a military public affairs man whispered to me
14:56that Goat Lab was just across the road from this building.
15:00Someone else told me that Goat Lab used to be called Dog Lab, but nobody wanted to do all that
15:05to dogs, so they switched to goats, and that's all anyone would tell me.
15:09I felt I was getting close to a great army secret.
15:14Glenn says that the master sergeant who could stop the heart of a goat was called Michael Echanis.
15:21How did he get sick as a result of stopping the goat's heart?
15:24To generate enough power, to generate enough force of intent to damage the goat, he damaged himself.
15:34What part of him?
15:36His heart.
15:37His heart was damaged?
15:40Can you do that?
15:41Yeah, yeah, yeah.
15:42Not really.
15:44Can you not do it because you don't want to, but do you have the power to stop a goat's
15:47heart?
15:47No, I don't think I have the power to stop a goat's heart.
15:50I kind of think that if one trained themselves to get to that level, then one would have to say,
15:56what did the goat ever do to me?
15:58You know, why that goat?
16:03I had many questions.
16:05Were they staring at goats again post 9-11?
16:08How often could I find Michael Echanis?
16:10And how did this all begin?
16:12Who was the inspiration behind the wall walking and the goat staring?
16:17And so I asked around and the same name kept coming up.
16:20It's a name few people outside the military have ever heard.
16:24But it turns out that this one man started the whole thing.
16:27His name is Lieutenant Colonel Jim Channon.
16:38Welcome to my home.
16:41And you, if you want to pass through these gates, you have to be part mystic and prepared for everything
16:49that will surprise you and part visionary to imagine the very best that could happen to you and therefore create
16:59your best shopping list.
17:11Why are you unlike my mental picture of a lieutenant colonel in the U.S. military?
17:16Because you haven't seen many.
17:19Yeah, the only reason that you have a funny picture of us is because you've been watching too many movies
17:26made by people who don't know anything about it.
17:34Jim Channon's story begins during the Vietnam War.
17:39That's 30 days under combat conditions, and I had more like 15 months.
17:46But this is real stuff.
17:50It's the only one that, you know, in the end really counts if you want to have any credibility.
17:57Being in Vietnam eight years without a satisfactory conclusion left us as an army thinking that, you know, we've got
18:06to change some things here.
18:08I mean, in Vietnam, I felt like tire rubber, frankly.
18:12The politicians, like, waved me off.
18:15I had the right to leathers to the mothers and fathers of the soldiers who were killed in my unit.
18:20When I came home, I couldn't even watch my daughter be born in a hospital.
18:25Hello.
18:26Jim says that in Vietnam, the U.S. army was guileless and kind-hearted,
18:31and many of his men were killed because they impulsively fired high, missing their targets,
18:37and they just weren't the killing machines that the army wanted them to be.
18:41I find that the kind of human being that is attracted to military service
18:48has a great deal of difficulty being cunning.
18:55We suffered in Vietnam so much from not being cunning.
18:59We just presented ourselves, you know, in our righteousness and got our butt shot off.
19:06When Jim returned from Vietnam, he asked the Pentagon if he could go on a fact-finding mission.
19:11He wanted the army to learn how to be more cunning.
19:14The Pentagon, bruised like Jim from Vietnam, agreed.
19:24Jim decided that the best place to learn cunning was from the emerging New Age movement of California.
19:35Jim's first stop was here at Esalen in Big Sur.
19:55I told them what I was up to, that I'm part of a military think tank,
20:03and I'm here to learn whatever I can, and they helped me immensely.
20:07Were they surprised?
20:09Yeah, they were surprised and happy.
20:13After visiting 150 Californians, Jim returned from his journey in 1979
20:18and he wrote a confidential paper designed for the military's eyes only.
20:35In Jim's First Earth Battalion, soldiers would carry baby lambs into hostile countries.
20:42They'd greet the enemy with sparkly eyes and an automatic hug.
20:54The new battlefield uniform would include a loudspeaker
20:58that would automatically emit indigenous music and words of peace.
21:04If this wasn't enough to pacify the enemy,
21:07the loudspeakers would be switched to broadcast discordant sounds
21:11like acid rock music out of sync to bombard and confuse the enemy.
21:17Soldiers would learn to fast on juice for a week
21:20and eat only nuts and grains for a month.
21:23They would fall in love with everyone, sense plant auras,
21:28obtain the power to pass through objects,
21:30stop their own hearts with no ill effects,
21:34have out-of-body experiences,
21:36have the ability to massage and cleanse the colon,
21:40stop using mindless clichés,
21:42stay out alone at night
21:43and be able to hear and see other people's thoughts
21:47until they became super warriors, warrior monks.
21:56Do you actually believe that it is possible for somebody to reach such a high level of warrior monkdom
22:05that they could do things that ordinary people just could never do,
22:09like for instance become invisible or walk through walls or stuff like that?
22:14Well, people under extreme pressure have been known,
22:17pregnant women have been known to lift up automobiles when their child was under it.
22:21We could expect the same from a warrior.
22:26Now Jim had to sell his ideas to the army's top brass.
22:30He convened a make-or-break meeting at Fort Knox.
22:34And as I was flying toward the think-tank meeting at Fort Knox, I went,
22:39you know, I can't just give these people a briefing about this.
22:44This isn't just information.
22:46So rather than tell these guys I'm going to give you a briefing about it,
22:50I said, I'm going to initiate you into the 1st Earth Battalion.
22:53I said, to begin the ceremony this evening, gentlemen,
22:57we're going to do a mantra.
23:00Take a deep breath and as you let it out, sound...
23:06At this point, they laughed.
23:08Few people chuckled, little bit embarrassed.
23:11And then I was able to say,
23:13excuse me, you've been given a set of instructions
23:16and expect you to carry them out at high level.
23:18See, tapping right into the military mindset.
23:21Second time we did it, I mean, the place became unified.
23:27Jim took me to his garden.
23:30He said he'd perform for me the very same speech he performed
23:33for the commanders of the US military at Fort Knox back in 1979.
23:40Gentlemen!
23:44It's a great honour to have you here in this place of sanctuary.
23:50Where we can mend our wounds and dream our dreams about better service.
23:56It's time that all the armies of the planet join together.
24:00So join me in this vision of being all we can be.
24:06Because this is the place where the 1st Earth Battalion began.
24:10And this is the place where you still, with the full permission of the United States Army,
24:18have the right to think the unthinkable.
24:23To dream the possible.
24:25And with your service intention and selfless nature, bring it about for others.
24:39The commanders were no longer laughing, Jim said.
24:43Like him, they'd been crushed by their experiences in Vietnam.
24:47It was as if the entire US Army was suffering from post-combat depression.
24:56So I was immediately appointed the commander of the 1st Earth Battalion.
25:01And is the 1st Earth Battalion still alive?
25:03It is.
25:08Jim published his 1st Earth Battalion manual and immediately throughout the Army,
25:13soldiers began to try and implement his ideas.
25:17It was like pulling the pin on a grenade and dropping it in the Pentagon.
25:22Really? It was that big?
25:24It was very powerful. I think it touched everybody that read it.
25:27Fresh strawberries!
25:28It rang true. It especially rang true with combat veterans, you know.
25:34It affected a lot of the command structure.
25:37And so a lot of people started thinking, how could we apply this?
25:42You know, in the special ops areas of the intelligence units, you know, how could we apply this?
25:50People started thinking out of the box.
25:53Bert Stubblebine was certainly influenced by it.
25:58He started thinking a lot out of the box.
26:02But there was a misunderstanding.
26:04Jim realized rationally that sensing plant auras and melting the hearts of the enemy with baby lambs
26:10were good ideas on paper, but weren't necessarily achievable skills in real life.
26:16In this case, we're really not trying to perform miracles.
26:20We're trying to take ordinary people that are in unfortunate and extremely dangerous situations
26:26and simply bring them to a level of competence.
26:29So we're aiming at a higher objective in order to get to a reasonable state of, you know, potential for
26:36the soldier.
26:37But Jim's superiors were literal-minded men,
26:40hence General Stubblebine's many determined efforts to walk through his wall.
26:54All over the US Army in the 1980s, Jim's ideas were flourishing.
26:59In fact, their famous Be All You Can Be recruitment ads were inspired by Jim's manual.
27:05All that you can be
27:07Hey, First Sergeant. Good morning.
27:09You can do it in the Army.
27:13In the early 1980s, the Army offered Jim the opportunity to command a real First Earth Battalion.
27:20But he turned them down. He wanted his ideas to float out there.
27:24The First Earth Battalion would exist wherever someone became inspired to implement his ideas, however they chose,
27:31which is how they started staring at goats at Fort Bragg.
27:36It turned out that Goat Lab wasn't set up just so First Earth Battalion fans could stare at the animals.
27:43It was part of the more conventional special ops medical training.
27:47They'd break the goats' legs using actual force and then nurse them back to health.
27:53But once the goats were on base, the Jedi warriors took the initiative to stare at them.
28:01Did this explain how Michael Echanis had managed to kill one in this fashion?
28:06Was the goat already in a shaky medical condition?
28:09I decided to track down Michael Echanis.
28:28It may be surprising to learn that the man initiating this frenzied mock knife attack
28:34is a great fan of Jim Channon's peace-loving First Earth Battalion manual.
28:41His name is Pete Brousseau and he's a former colleague of Michael Echanis.
28:45He teaches martial arts to Marines here at Camp Pendleton in San Diego.
28:51The bad news is that Michael Echanis is dead.
28:54Pete said he'd tell me the strange story of how he'd come to die,
28:58but first he wanted to show me an invention of his.
29:01This invention is based on Jim Channon's study of chakra points and eastern mind-body philosophy.
29:07It's being carried today by the 82nd Airborne in Iraq.
29:11It's called the Predator.
29:14It's friendly to the earth and all the other things we talk about, but it has a spirit to it.
29:18Things we haven't taught you is a push knife, you can strike and push a person away.
29:23The pointed verses go in the people.
29:25You take this point and push down like that.
29:28Oh, I'm sorry.
29:29And it's just that quick.
29:30It began to dawn on me that Pete had a broad definition of Jim Channon's ideals.
29:36Just simply place this here and they're down.
29:39You know, and it's just punish the bejesus out of them, you know.
29:43Get away from me.
29:44I want to grab him and shuck him forward.
29:46If he were to grab, you use the kinetic energy aspect of that to remove him away.
29:52This is really unpleasant for you.
29:54Oh, yes.
29:56What do you think?
29:57Yeah, it hurts like hell.
29:59And now this is amazing.
30:00This is truly amazing.
30:02I'm only going to use two fingers and watch where you go.
30:05Isn't that something?
30:06OK, yeah, yeah, yeah.
30:07And you want to punch at me because you don't like it, right?
30:09No, no, no.
30:09And you just always let you run into this thing.
30:10I don't want to punch at you.
30:11What I want to do is just leave.
30:12So you can easily hook a finger, for example.
30:18Pete's predator was specifically designed to inflict carnage on chakra points.
30:22But even so, it didn't seem very First Earth Battalion to me.
30:26OK, OK, OK, OK, stop.
30:27Well, then let go.
30:28Let go.
30:29Stop.
30:29Will you stop, please?
30:30I was soon to have a major breakthrough regarding my investigation into Goat Lab.
30:35But first, Pete was going to hurt me even more.
30:45It's a great location.
30:47Nice and quiet.
30:48Original front door.
30:50Should open with a good kick.
30:53Don't worry about the alarm.
30:55It hasn't worked for years.
30:58No padlock.
31:01All our valuables are easy to find.
31:04Look.
31:05It's like a giant cat flap.
31:07So what do you think?
31:08Interested?
31:09Don't advertise your house to burglars.
31:12Keep it safe.
31:13Keep it locked.
31:14Be good.
31:18Have a look.
31:24Have a look.
31:29Oh, baby, I will travel.
31:36Have a look.
31:40Oh, baby, I will travel.
31:50I'll travel
32:17The Sharp Aquos LCD TV
32:20True color is the key
32:25More choice
32:27More taste
32:28More freshness
32:30Subway sandwiches
32:32Made just the way you like it
32:34On freshly baked bread
32:36With your favorite tasty vegetables
32:38And mouthwatering sauces
32:42More hot fillings
32:44Like sweet onion chicken teriyaki
32:46Or Italian meatball
32:48You expect more
32:50And you get more
32:51Subway
32:52Eat fresh
32:54Believe me
32:56Have you ever noticed how some companies
32:59Seem to spend more effort chasing new customers
33:02Than taking care of the ones they've already got
33:04Well from now on
33:05BT with BT Together
33:07Are offering UK weekend and evening calls
33:10For just 5.5p
33:11For a whole hour
33:13Not just to attract the Johnny-come-lately's
33:15It's also for their most important customers of all
33:18Every single one of them
33:21BT
33:22More power to you
33:27He had slicked back hair
33:29Everything about him was completely caricature
33:33It looked like a lord
33:34If you want to see a lord
33:36You look at Lord Lucan
33:3730 years on
33:38With previously unseen footage
33:40Lord Lucan's son speaks out for the first time
33:42The Hunt for Lord Lucan
33:44Thursday at 9 on 4
33:51Camp Pendleton San Diego
33:53And Pete Brousseau was continuing to hurt me
33:56With this 1st Earth Battalion inspired predator
33:58Pete was truly a maestro of violence
34:02All I need to do is rub his head with it
34:06You can do this
34:07Take an eyeball out
34:08If I want a little pain compliance
34:10I'll be as easy as I can
34:12A little pain compliance
34:13Later Pete told me that you can grab an Iraqi insurgent with the predator
34:17Rip out his eyeballs
34:19Stab him in the neck
34:20The blood would squirt out like a fountain all over his friends
34:24And this would create a powerful visual psychic disincentive
34:27For the other insurgents to attack
34:30It seemed to me that once the American army
34:33Had recovered their strength after Vietnam
34:35They saw that Jim Channon's ideas
34:37Could be used to destroy people
34:39Rather than hail them
34:41Back inside
34:42Pete told me how Michael Echanis had come to die
34:45The common story that he was killed in a helicopter crash in Nicaragua
34:50That's not the story that I have heard
34:55Michael Echanis was very much into key energy and projection
34:58And trying to bring that more esoteric aspect
35:01As opposed to gross motor skill
35:02We're going to apply spirit behind things
35:05Mind-body-spirit type stuff
35:07And to prove his mind-body-spirit
35:10He used to let Jeeps run over him
35:11And if you slowly go over the body
35:13The body can pretty much take that
35:15If you hit it with any kind of speed
35:17You've got kinetic energy shock to it
35:19Well, the person driving a Jeep
35:21Didn't realise he was supposed to slow down too much
35:24Oops!
35:25Yes, and he took internal injuries and died
35:27That's what I heard
35:28Do you think that they then made up the helicopter story
35:31To kind of spare everybody's blushes?
35:33Could be
35:34Either way, now that Echanis was dead
35:37I was at a dead end regarding my investigation into Goat Lab
35:41But then we had a breakthrough
35:44My producer John Sargent went to Las Vegas
35:47To interview a First Earth Battalion fan
35:49Called Colonel John Alexander
35:51Who is one of Al Gore's oldest friends
35:54And the following conversation ensued
35:58I wonder, have you heard of Michael Echanis?
36:01Hmm?
36:01Have you heard of Michael Echanis?
36:04Hmm?
36:06We were told that in the 70s
36:09He was the chief trainer of Special Forces
36:13A martial arts guy
36:16That's almost undoubtedly not true
36:20We were told that in one corner of Special Forces
36:26There was a training
36:27A complete expert in martial arts
36:30Who was a training fellow
36:30Who could stare at a goat and stop its heart
36:34Yeah, you're talking about Guy Cervelli
36:36Actually, I was thinking of Michael Echanis
36:42I think it's Guy Cervelli
36:51After much searching
36:52We found Guy Cervelli in Ohio
36:55He confirmed the story
36:56And said in fact he's still practicing the technique
36:59Only last week he stopped the heart of his hamster
37:02Just by staring at it
37:04And you did this to your hamster?
37:07Or to hamsters?
37:08You did this to hamsters?
37:10They died
37:11Died
37:12I have to get it
37:13I have the tape
37:14I have the tape there
37:15It goes around
37:16And I can stop from going around
37:18It's driving me nuts
37:19And you can say
37:19Okay, I want to stop from going around
37:20Well, then I'm going to make it kind of sicker
37:21Not feel good
37:22Burrow under the sawdust like that
37:25Yeah
37:26And it just drops dead?
37:30Ah, well, we'll take a look and see
37:32It's dead
37:33And I had a guy take care of it every night
37:35Take care of it every night
37:36What do you mean take care of it?
37:38Feed it
37:38Water it
37:39So you knew that it was a healthy hamster
37:42Yes
37:42And then you started staring
37:43You started concentrating
37:45Three days, yeah
37:45Three times
37:47Guy's involvement in the U.S. military began with a telephone call out of the blue from Fort Bragg
37:53This was shortly after Jim Channon had published his 1st Earth Battalion manual
37:59Special forces told Guy that they wanted him to teach the soldiers his particularly paranormal brand of martial arts
38:06This is the tape from Fort Bragg
38:10It's a demo tape with the guys, the special forces in uniform
38:13He goes too slow, he gets clobbered in the hand
38:21I learned with a machete
38:22I'm going to tell you something
38:23They did this
38:25One right after the other
38:28It wasn't like, okay, let's take a 10 minute break now
38:30We did it
38:31One
38:32That alone is paranormal
38:34Break them with their head
38:34Break them with their hands
38:35Break them with their feet
38:36Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang
38:37Hippie
38:37Okay, let's get done
38:38Let's get done as fast as we can
38:39This is
38:41Who does that?
38:54The man in the red trousers in this video is Guy Cervelli
38:58You've seen the shield, took mental concentration
39:01And you see the three of us standing here
39:05We're all in good shape
39:07And not her
39:13Special forces were so impressed with Guy's techniques
39:16They wanted him to go further
39:18To teach them what's known as remote influencing
39:22How does that feel for that?
39:24I taught them how to make a person forget
39:28What they're going to say
39:30Really?
39:30I can teach them
39:31Oh yeah, you can do that
39:31You can make a person forget what they're going to say easily
39:33And I said, this is what you do
39:35And all you really say is in your head
39:37Basically you say, no
39:40You aren't going to
39:41You know, do you ever play pool?
39:42Builders or anything?
39:43Did you ever get a person when you
39:45When you missed a shot
39:46And they were going to
39:48You wanted them to
39:49You missed your shot
39:50And you're going like
39:51And they're going to shoot now
39:52And you're like
39:53And they missed their shot
39:55That's the same thing
39:56It's the same thing
39:57Is it like a tone of voice then?
39:59Yes, but you're doing it in your head
40:01It's in your head
40:02What are you up to doing?
40:03You just go like
40:03No, don't do it
40:04Don't make that shot
40:05I'm going to lose
40:06You know, you get that feeling inside of you
40:07That you blew it
40:09And you want them
40:09You want them to do the same thing
40:12Guy can't remember exactly how the conversation
40:15Got around to goat staring
40:17But he does recall at some point that night
40:19Saying, let's give it a go
40:23I said, can you get a goat
40:24Get an EEG machine
40:27Hitch the goat up
40:27You guys stay with it
40:28And I will try to
40:31Knock the goat down
40:32And drop its heart rate
40:34So we got the goat the next day
40:35Set it up
40:36And we start it
40:38And you picture a golden road
40:39Going up in the sky
40:40And I, because I'm Christian
40:41I picture
40:42The Lord is up there
40:43And I picture myself
40:44Walking up into the arms of the Lord
40:46And I picture
40:47Put his arms around me
40:48When he does it
40:49And I get a chill inside of me
40:50And I know it's right
40:51So I did that
40:53And I'm kind of asking for a way
40:56To knock this goat down
40:57So it comes to me
40:58That probably
40:59There was this one picture
41:00That we have of
41:01Like St. Michael the Archangel
41:03He's got this sword
41:04There like that
41:04So I got that picture
41:06In my mind
41:07And I kind of
41:09Sent it over with my mind
41:10To where the goat was
41:12In my mind
41:13I pictured that St. Michael
41:14Got this sword
41:17And was going
41:20Through the goats
41:22And knocking it down to the ground
41:25And I got that
41:25And so inside of me
41:26You can't even breathe
41:27You're going like
41:32And you believe it
41:35And after about 15 minutes
41:37I said
41:39Lenny
41:40You better go see
41:41I don't know for sure
41:43Because the goat
41:44Was in a different room
41:45I couldn't
41:45It was 100 feet away
41:46Yeah
41:46I couldn't see it at all
41:48I never saw it
41:49Until afterward
41:49Never saw
41:50He said
41:51Oh it's down
41:51I said
41:52Oh cool
41:52We did it
41:53That was it
41:54So I wanted to do it
41:55So they wanted to do that test again
41:58You know
41:58And they wanted me
41:59They wanted me to
42:00Kill the goat
42:01They wanted to take the extreme
42:03You know
42:04Kill the goat
42:05Let me just interrupt
42:06Why did they
42:07I mean
42:08Wasn't that
42:08Kind of good enough
42:09You know
42:10I mean
42:10That's pretty amazing
42:11So why
42:11Why did they want to go
42:12One step further
42:13And kill the goat
42:15This was
42:15This was
42:15I met with a bunch
42:16Of military people
42:19And I guess
42:19They thought
42:20You could
42:22Whatever
42:23Okay
42:23So we did another test
42:25And we picked
42:27Like 30 goats
42:29I says
42:29What you want to do
42:30Is you want to put
42:31Put a number
42:32On the goats
42:33He says
42:33You pick the goat
42:34And you pick the number
42:35And I'll drop the goat
42:38And they picked the number
42:40And I concentrated
42:41But it was just so
42:42It was so
42:43P.O.ed at them
42:44I get in
42:45And the goat
42:48Next to the goat
42:49With the number dropped
42:52And they're like
42:53Collateral damage
42:54Guy said he had
42:56All the videos at home
42:57A video of the goat dropping
42:59And a video of his hamster dying
43:02He went off to find them
43:03An hour later
43:04He returned
43:05I didn't find the tape
43:07Of the goat lab
43:09In Fort Bragg
43:11And the hamster one
43:12I didn't
43:13God
43:13I just didn't even
43:13I didn't even think
43:15To
43:15I thought
43:16These guys are going
43:17To be there forever
43:19I have that tape too
43:20I'll find them both
43:22For you
43:22When you come back
43:22I have them
43:23The guy did bring one tape
43:26This is much more recent
43:27Special forces
43:29Are staring
43:30At goats again
43:31Post 9-11
43:32They secretly sent
43:34Three soldiers
43:34Up to Ohio
43:35To stare at a local goat
43:37At a veterinary surgery
43:38Near Guy's house
43:45This isn't
43:46The best part yet
43:52So these are
43:53Special forces guys
43:54Here
43:57I don't know
43:58I'm surprised
44:04They have to take
44:05A baseline here
44:11So the concentration
44:12Is going on now
44:13In another room
44:15No he's right there
44:17Oh
44:18The guy's right there
44:19Doing it
44:19Him or him
44:20No it's away from them
44:21It's neither of those two
44:22It's probably the guy
44:23I would assume
44:24It's this guy right
44:25No there's another guy
44:26Right there
44:26It might be him
44:28But we're going to see
44:29Some kind of physical response
44:31On the goat's part
44:32Just the freezes there
44:33The heart rate was around
44:35The mid 60s
44:36And dropped
44:38To 55
44:40The goat video
44:41Seemed a little disappointing
44:42After all the build up
44:44But then Guy explained
44:45That the goat
44:46Was only being subjected
44:47To level 1
44:50Then if you carry that further
44:52The goat will
44:53Topple over
44:54Yes
44:55Will fall
44:55And then if you go
44:57Even further than that
44:58The goat could actually die
44:59Yes
45:00Okay
45:01So we were seeing level 1 there
45:02Yes
45:03And you
45:04Level 1 is high
45:05Level 1 is high
45:09Guy said that if I
45:10Came back in a few weeks
45:12He'd show me the video
45:13In which his hamster
45:14Falls victim
45:15To level 3
45:16Death
45:21Back at Camp Pendleton
45:22Pete Brousseau
45:23Knew all about
45:24The goat staring
45:24And he was sniffy
45:26About it
45:26He said it might be fabled
45:28But it is basically
45:29A party trick
45:30He said he could do it to me
45:31Then he asked me
45:32To choke him
45:33Now
45:34Choke
45:36Choke
45:38Choke
45:39It's okay
45:40I didn't want to choke Pete
45:42When I raised my hands
45:43I saw that they were
45:44Violently trembling
45:45I had assumed until that moment
45:47That we were essentially kidding around
45:49But the sight of my hands
45:51Made me realise that we weren't
45:53It'll take your brain
45:543 tenths of a second
45:55To realise what is occurring
45:56And then after that 3 tenths
45:58You're mine
45:59I'm going to touch you
46:00And that is it
46:01I'm not going to even move my feet
46:04Okay
46:04But I'm going to project myself into you
46:06And you're going to go
46:07Off my body
46:08As far as you can
46:09You can possibly want to
46:11You don't want to be close to me
46:12Might I hit
46:13Yes you might
46:14One of these
46:14But that will be half the fun
46:15To watch you fall over that
46:16I really am afraid
46:17You're apprehensive
46:18But like I said
46:20I'll do it very easily
46:21You can assume
46:21I 100% believe
46:24In your powers
46:24It's easy
46:26It's not just me
46:27You realise that
46:27There's no shadow of doubt
46:28You have it too
46:29You have it too
46:30Will you bear all those things in mind
46:33Absolutely
46:34Okay
46:34I promise you
46:36Absolutely
46:36Without question
46:37So I'm not a marine
46:39I'm not young anymore
46:40And I do not utilise my powers
46:42I can appreciate that
46:42I do sometimes experience fear
46:45When something bad is about to happen to me
46:47But I found that I was at this point
46:49Abnormally debilitated with fear
46:52Okay
46:53Just relax
46:54Just relax
46:56Just relax
46:57We will fly across the room
47:00Yes
47:02It's very easy
47:03Okay
47:03Choke
47:05Okay
47:08Well relax a second
47:09If you want to
47:10We've got to do this
47:12Okay
47:13When we touch here
47:14And move
47:15I'm literally going to move
47:16Through your body
47:17And it's going to feel like
47:18We're going to pierce
47:19Right through you
47:19And you won't be able to stand there
47:21Okay
47:23Just like that
47:24And I never moved
47:25I really did feel something that was freaky and nauseating
47:29It was abject fear
47:30Pete said this was because he was projecting his thoughts into my head
47:36So when I was clearly a little afraid of you before you started doing that stuff
47:41Was that my own
47:43No that was me
47:44That was you
47:45That was a lot of me taking hold of a very little gift you gave me
47:50Vulnerable to the fact that I as much as I tried to disguise
47:53You were concerned about it
47:54You were concerned about it
47:55So we'll just make sure he's really concerned about it
47:57Okay
47:57We'll make sure that it really is bad
48:00Okay
48:00It's a matter of thought projection
48:02It's just I gave you the thought and you ran away with it
48:05You were good at it
48:05Pete said I was the Iraqi insurgent
48:08Being sprayed with the fountain of blood emanating from the neck of his friend
48:12I was the hamster
48:13I was the goat
48:15You weren't in my head
48:16I was in your head
48:17I got it
48:25The blues man
48:27I got three shows tonight
48:29We're just a couple of fun
48:31Till five o'clock
48:32I say you
48:33I say you and me in it
48:35I say yours
48:37I say us makes white and black
48:39And it's not a day we don't get it
48:41Well I'll get along whatever you say
48:43If you want a long click hit my fire
48:45Turn the blackout like it's great
48:47Turn the blackout like it's great
49:11Can't blame them
49:12No
49:15Reckoning it ain't the amber nectar
49:17Don't even bother
49:18That'll be the 7.35 from Dubbo
49:21Yeah
49:38I know y'all know what I'm talking about
49:40Don't be looking at me like that now
49:41I see ya
49:45Come on
49:47I see ya
49:48Get dizzy with it
49:50Make it on down
49:52I see ya baby
49:54Shakin' that ass
49:56Shakin' that ass
49:58Shakin' that ass
50:00Shakin' that ass
50:03Bergman Bogart classic
50:05I can't believe you think
50:06The Casablanca's a better film
50:07Than The Godfather
50:08Easily
50:09It's got some of the best lines
50:10In any movie ever
50:11Here's looking at you kid
50:13I'd rather look
50:14Than Marlon Brando
50:15Acting his socks off
50:16Come on
50:16I think he had the socks in his mouth
50:17I couldn't understand a word he said
50:18Well I think you'll find
50:19He won an Oscar for it
50:20The award for best mumbling
50:22Goes to
50:23But Casablanca
50:24And what an ending
50:25Yeah that was the best bit in my view
50:27When it ended
50:27The Times
50:28Now compact Monday to Saturday
50:31Join the debate
50:33Inside every copy of the new compact Saturday Times this weekend
50:37Don't miss a free DVD of the award-winning film Paris, Texas
50:46Who are the greatest artists of the 50s?
50:52Summer
50:52Yes, Lord
50:53Que sera
50:55Heartbeat
50:56Are you a fan?
50:57Go can't go
50:58It's called rock and go
51:00Rock, rock, rock
51:01The UK Music Hall of Fame
51:03After crazy rulers of the world
51:08The news is that Jim Channon has been brought back from retirement
51:12By the Army's Chief of Staff, General Shoemaker
51:15Donald Rumsfeld had asked for creative input into the war on terror
51:19But Jim won't tell me what his input is
51:22This is all he'll say
51:24I am still the commander of the 1st Earth Battalion
51:27And I am still sought for my opinion
51:29And how many soldiers do you have in the battalion?
51:33How many minds have read the manual?
51:35I would say 20,000
51:39But the mindset of openness is stunning
51:43I mean for the Chief of Staff of the Army to give me a mission
51:46To be with the top 30 majors in the Army
51:50And these are really top people?
51:52The top people
51:55Like who?
51:56Like the Chief of Staff of the Army
51:58Back in Ohio, Guy Civelli has found his hamster video
52:02See, now there's going around there and I've got to get started
52:05So these are the hamster's behavior normally?
52:07I've never done it before
52:09So I'm trying to work with two hamsters
52:10Like two minds there
52:12So I want to keep the one from going in
52:14And I'm trying to make the other one sick
52:16The object is to keep them out of the wheel
52:20I would try to work on both of them separately
52:23Which I think is very hard to do
52:25Make one feel sick
52:27And keep one out of the thing
52:29And you try to split your mind to do that
52:32You concentrate like, you know, like you do
52:33It's kind of like
52:36Now this thing here is looking at me
52:38It was kind of bizarre
52:39Because he would just stare at me
52:40This little hamster is looking at me
52:41He's looking at the source, I guess
52:43I don't know
52:53I'd like to do it more, you know what I mean?
52:56More like
53:00See, look at this
53:02He's down, there he is underneath right there
53:03There he is right there
53:05Accomplishing the task I wanted to do
53:07Look at what he's doing to that one
53:08He's running on top of it
53:10You know, that's bizarre
53:11He's right on top of the other one
53:12He's right on top of the other hamster right there
53:14He's, he's, yeah
53:15He's right on top of him
53:16So I thought
53:17God, is he, is he dead?
53:19Or is he just sick?
53:20Or
53:21That's kind of nuts, isn't it?
53:22To see it like that
53:23Look at him
53:24That's kind of
53:25He's right on top of the other one
53:27The other one's not even moving
53:29He's not moving
53:31So I'm accomplishing my task there
53:34It did seem odd to me
53:36Although I have never owned a hamster
53:38And so I don't know whether or not this is aberrant behavior
53:42Emotions such as circumspection and wariness
53:45Are not easy to discern in hamsters
53:47Although perhaps hamster-owning viewers of this program
53:50Will have a view on this
53:53It gets more bizarre at the end
53:56Get out of there, see?
53:59But still it isn't enough
54:02He's trying to get out of there
54:03In my mind
54:05And this isn't something that he normally does
54:07No!
54:08Hamster goes on top of the wheel and stays there
54:10The other one wants to go around
54:11You can see
54:12He knows he wants to get out of there
54:14Get out of there
54:15Somehow get out of that
54:16Get out of this ray that's going at him
54:19This is level two, right?
54:21Yeah
54:22It's quite eerie
54:24Yes it is
54:28And then the hamster got up
54:30Brushed itself down
54:31And the tape ended
54:34Later Guy explained
54:35That he didn't want me to see the part
54:37Where the hamster dies
54:38Because he was afraid
54:39I was a bleeding heart liberal
54:40And would take it out of context
54:42But, he said
54:44The hamster did die
54:51In the summer of 2004
54:53Guy called me
54:54He said special forces had requested
54:57He'd travel covertly to Fort Bragg
54:59With an animal
55:00Guy wouldn't tell me what kind of animal
55:02But he said it was small and cheap to purchase
55:05So I assume it was a hamster
55:07Guy says the animal staring program is back
55:11When I asked him what motivated this
55:13This is what he said
55:16The soldiers responsible for these acts of torture
55:19Trained at Fort Bragg
55:21Guy says the Fort Bragg commanders are horrified by what they did
55:25And so they've co-opted Guy to teach the soldiers
55:28A new way of interrogating people
55:30They want to learn how to get a detainee to talk
55:33Just by staring at them
55:35The psychic power of the stare
55:38Guy says
55:39Is the kind and gentle way forward
55:41I am inclined to believe
55:43That Guy is telling the truth
55:45About his reactivation
55:48General Stubblebine is pleased to hear
55:50That some of the techniques he pioneered
55:52Are back in George Bush's America
55:55If you take a pendulum
55:57From a clock
55:58And you move the pendulum way out here
56:02And then you let it go
56:04What does the pendulum do?
56:06It comes way back over here
56:08Okay
56:09My guess is that
56:11I had taken things out too far
56:14And when you let the pendulum go
56:16It swang way back over here
56:19And now pieces of them
56:21Are being resurrected on
56:23Somewhere out here
56:25Can you afford to get stale
56:27In the intelligence world?
56:29The answer is no
56:29You cannot afford to miss something
56:33If you don't believe that
56:35Take a look at 9-11
56:37And airplanes that were taking off
56:42But not learning how to land
56:44Okay
56:45And where did that information get lost?
56:48You cannot afford to miss something
56:52When you're talking about the intelligence world
56:54That's the story
56:56It's the story of the creativity
56:58Of an institution
56:59You would expect to be the last one
57:02To open its mind
57:03To the greater realities
57:05But soon I would discover
57:07That some of Jim's ideas
57:09Are being applied in Iraq
57:10And Guantanamo Bay
57:12In the most horrible ways
57:16That's next Sunday at 8
57:18And John Ronson's book
57:19To accompany this series
57:21The Men Who Stare at Goats
57:22Is available in shops
57:23Nigh-priced $16.99
57:25To order call 0870-1234-3444
57:28Or click onto channel4.com
57:30Next we're going to rock around the clock tonight
57:34With music legends of the 50s
57:38The Men Who Stare at Goats
57:44The Men Who Stare at Goats