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00:00Let's talk about the Bills and the Patriots together.
00:04We have a little more time than I expected, which is fine,
00:08because I think this is an interesting one.
00:10And I'm not even sure, well, I've known this,
00:14when, if it's the reverse safety power rankings or just regular conversation,
00:19I have had the same instinct on the Patriots to,
00:25I'm not going to put this in the reverse context to make it all weird and confusing.
00:29I've had the same instinct to, like, put the Patriots down.
00:34But do they deserve it is what I'm asking myself here today
00:41when we wrap up the power rankings and they're at six,
00:45even though they won 14 games, didn't they?
00:4813 or 14 games, two playoff games.
00:51The first way to put a dent in that accomplishment, by far,
00:59is their famously historically weak schedule.
01:03But, you know, the Bills have had years of that.
01:07What was the one year, maybe 2022 or in that range,
01:12where the Bills did get criticized for,
01:16as if they had anything to do about it or with it,
01:18they got criticized for not playing or beating anybody good.
01:23Maybe they go to Baltimore and get beat that Sunday night game that year,
01:27or Tennessee, that's a different year.
01:29But, you know, in that, there was a period of time when this was said about them,
01:35that they weren't maybe as good as their record because they weren't beating good teams.
01:40You know, and I always said the same thing to that,
01:43which is what I would say to last year's Patriots, if it holds up, I think it might,
01:49or any other team getting scrutinized like that is,
01:53well, what are the game scores?
01:56And what the Bills did that year, I think it's 22, maybe,
02:00what the Bills did this one year in question was they just killed everybody.
02:04They played bad teams, but they killed them.
02:07And, like, that's good enough for me.
02:10You can't control your schedule.
02:12We know that.
02:13And if you're going to play weak opponents, bury them.
02:18That's how you can show yourself to be a good team or a great team
02:22when you're not playing the other good or great teams in the league.
02:26So the schedule point about the Patriots last year only goes so far.
02:32Not only did they – I don't know how many blowouts they had.
02:35I guess I could look.
02:37But, I mean, they won all those games after – they started 1-2, I think.
02:42And they lost to the Raiders and they lost to Pittsburgh, both at home.
02:46In the Pittsburgh game, they might have had five turnovers or even six.
02:49Like, they were – they fumbled at the one-yard line a couple times.
02:52Really a fluky outcome.
02:55Still, it happens.
02:55And then they went the rest of the year and they lost once more to the Bills in Foxborough.
03:00So, they were 1-2 and they went, I think, to 14-3.
03:06And so, yeah, easy schedule, but what did they do with it?
03:10They crushed it.
03:11So, all right, well, that is what sometimes I'll think about right away
03:18when it comes to New England is like, well, how good were they really?
03:22And I think they probably deserve some credit for being good.
03:25What else?
03:28Whatever happened with Mike Vrabel, I think they're kind of through it, don't you?
03:35Maybe there'll be some next shoe to drop, some consequence that I'm not going to even try to predict
03:42from whatever that was.
03:45But I thought at the time this could be the kind of thing where he might step away
03:50or maybe it would compromise his authority in the locker room.
03:56I guess there might still be some of that, but I don't hear anybody talking about it anymore.
04:01And they play in Seattle week one.
04:04One, I thought they wouldn't get that game because of the scandal, the perceived scandal,
04:09and just that NBC would want to avoid that as a topic for opening night.
04:15That didn't happen.
04:16They did get the game with Seattle.
04:19So, I don't think that that's really a deal right now, probably.
04:24You want?
04:25I don't.
04:26It almost happened at the perfect time, I guess, for them.
04:29I mean, if it's going to happen, it's going to happen.
04:30But, yeah, it almost now would feel weird if it's brought up on opening night
04:35because it's been so many months.
04:36We've gotten the football thing going on now.
04:38It would almost be weird.
04:40I think on the schedule point where I sit with New England, you play the schedule you get.
04:44This is not college where you get to pick the teams, and if you've got a week schedule,
04:46that kind of points a finger at you.
04:48For me, it's more they didn't play a top-10 defense throughout the regular season,
04:53and their offense was wonderful.
04:54Drake May was great, the whole thing.
04:56They get into the playoffs, and this is sort of where I sit with C.J. Stroud, too.
05:00And it was so bad offensively.
05:02They got through their opponents.
05:04You have to do that.
05:05You have to get somewhat lucky to get to the Super Bowl.
05:06I get that.
05:07But they went from averaging 28 points per game to 16 in the playoffs.
05:11They only go over 20 points one time, and that's against Houston.
05:14They're not a bad team, I don't think.
05:16But at least with the Bills, I have years now in a row of thinking,
05:21okay, yeah, you're going to be fine.
05:22You're going to get through this.
05:22You're going to do your thing.
05:24Where New England, I have, they were really bad.
05:26Get Vrabel.
05:27They're a really good one year.
05:29Now what do we think?
05:30I mean, even the A.J. Brown stuff, I think you brought it up a couple weeks ago,
05:33like who would you rather have, A.J. Brown or D.J. Moore?
05:36On paper, probably A.J. Brown.
05:38It's not close for me.
05:39It's not close, but I do get worried about the knee.
05:42And the fact that a couple, I think two years ago,
05:44like late in the year with Philadelphia,
05:45he's got to get his knee drained every week.
05:47Like that kind of makes me concerned a little bit.
05:50I think he works perfectly with Drake May, who did great deep ball passing
05:54and being more of a vertical threat.
05:58The way I look at it is just in some way similar to Denver.
06:03It was so sudden and so much that there probably is somewhat of a comeback.
06:07And I think the playoffs sort of showed maybe where they really were,
06:10which is not a bad team by any means.
06:12Well, a few things.
06:14I think what probably happens on opening night is it's mentioned.
06:19Does it have to be?
06:20I don't know if it has to be.
06:21I don't think it's going to be like a big drawn-out conversation
06:23because nobody wants to have that conversation, you know, in public really.
06:28So I think that is probably what we get from the opener from NBC.
06:33I mean, wins are wins.
06:37Oh, yeah.
06:38And in the playoffs, they didn't give up much,
06:41and there was one game played in a blizzard for a half.
06:44Like, I don't want to penalize them so much for that.
06:49They did turn the ball over eight times in four postseason games,
06:54including the Super Bowl.
06:56I just think what has been evident in these power rankings is,
07:01and it was, I would say, again, the case today,
07:04where you get about, you could even draw the line before Indianapolis.
07:09You get about halfway through the conference,
07:12and this also omits the Steelers,
07:14who've only won that division a couple of times here.
07:17Like, it really is hard to separate.
07:23And, you know, it's different arguments, different weeks.
07:26I have trouble with the Bills at one because why?
07:30Like, what did they do to earn one?
07:32They lost to Denver.
07:34They beat Jacksonville, which was a good win on the road in the playoffs.
07:38They only split with New England.
07:40They lost the division to New England.
07:42And then you have other, if you will, kind of legacy teams,
07:46the Chiefs and the Ravens,
07:47who I don't think necessarily either deserve to be at the top, bottom, right?
07:54Spring foot slash toe, top slash bottom.
07:58I mean, I'm not in any hurry to do that,
08:00but you've got to pick somebody.
08:02And Denver, this was interesting to me last week at one point,
08:06that, like, how does Denver,
08:11what if you put Denver to the test as the AFC's top team,
08:16how do they look under that microscope?
08:19I mean, they did get the one.
08:21They did win the game against the Bills in the playoffs,
08:24then lost to New England.
08:25And they had to buy, so it's only the one win.
08:28But they've been to the playoffs two years in a row.
08:31Coach is proven.
08:33Quarterback is not on the Josh Allen level,
08:36but he's on a certain level.
08:38I mean, I think he has to be respected, at least.
08:41So, that's, I mean, everybody in this group,
08:45there's a kind of easy point to make against them.
08:52Who's the best?
08:53I mean, it's just talk.
08:54It's not games yet.
08:55We're just having a conversation.
08:58But I've got Buffalo, Baltimore, Kansas City, Cincinnati, say.
09:06Four teams that have been good to great at different points.
09:11The Bengals are a little bit of an asterisk here,
09:13but still, they made the Super Bowl,
09:15and the Bills didn't, and the Ravens didn't.
09:17So, you've got, like, four teams that have been
09:19so much of the conversation about the AFC power structure
09:23for the last five to seven years.
09:27And none of them is coming off a first-place season.
09:31Two of them have quarterbacks coming off injuries.
09:35Burrow has a bit of a history himself.
09:37You've got the Bengals and the Chiefs were 6-11 teams, right?
09:41So, you have that juxtaposed with New England, Denver,
09:47I want to say Jacksonville, too.
09:49I don't know what I want to do with Houston for this.
09:51Houston has won that division two years in a row.
09:53So, maybe Houston.
09:55They're neither kind of new, nor are they kind of legacy.
10:01I don't think Houston really belongs in either bucket.
10:04New England, Denver, Jacksonville are newer to the conversation,
10:11and thus, we have maybe more doubts about them
10:14because it just hasn't been long enough.
10:17Which, you know, that's reasonable.
10:19Houston and Pittsburgh, to me, are maybe more in the same bucket
10:22of teams where they've just been there and they've won divisions,
10:26they've been playoff teams, but have largely fallen flat.
10:30I mean, Houston wins a playoff game last year.
10:32It's against Pittsburgh, and they win by a ton.
10:35So, anyway, it's just sort of, maybe it's all kind of obvious.
10:38It's just interesting to try to rank them.
10:41Not always are these rankings so interesting to do,
10:44but I think this summer it's been kind of cool for having so many teams
10:50in the AFC conversation, and every given, any given day,
10:56there'll be something that comes to mind that makes me want to do it differently.
11:01The Bills end up won, and if we ran that back tomorrow,
11:05I'll be like, what claim do they have to be won?
11:07You don't have any AFC titles.
11:09You don't have a first-place season last year.
11:12You lost to another team in the conference.
11:15You lost to a couple of these teams multiple times in the playoffs.
11:19What exactly makes you won?
11:21But then it's like, all right, well, who has the better case
11:23or who has the best case in the AFC?
11:26I like this year and this offseason for that.
11:29And that's, who have I not mentioned?
11:31Like, the Chargers are, Brad was conflicted about them
11:35when we did the rankings last hour because the Chargers are,
11:39you think about their history.
11:41Nobody likes their history.
11:43They're always criticized for being overhyped.
11:50And, okay, well, fair enough.
11:53I think Herbert is the best MVP bet on the board.
11:58And he's not even that great a price.
12:01But at 10-1 in that range, he hasn't won one.
12:04I think this sets up to be a year where, I mean,
12:08they have to win the AFC West probably.
12:11You always say, I always say about the MVP,
12:13it's the quarterback of a team that won its division,
12:16you know, probably won at least 12 games.
12:18The Chargers probably will have to do that.
12:20But it's not crazy to think that they will, I think.
12:24So, there's a team that maybe is the easiest to dismiss of all these guys
12:32because they have a history of disappointing.
12:36You have to be pretty good to earn that history.
12:39The Bills have somewhat that history in the last six years, don't they?
12:42Right?
12:43I mean, for all the winning they've done,
12:44then the playoffs come around and they kind of blow it.
12:47And the Chargers are maybe a poor man's version of them in this way.
12:52I think what's kind of fun about L.A. as a bet or just sort of as an idea
12:58in this sort of context is that exact thing,
13:02that they are the easiest team to dismiss because you have nothing.
13:07You have Sam Monson's MVP vote for Herbert.
13:10You have playoff flops.
13:12You know, you have injuries.
13:13And they might have had a bad one today with the center going down.
13:18I mean, that could be major for a team.
13:21The Chargers suffered last year with their tackles hurt,
13:24and it really affected them.
13:26You don't want to lose your center.
13:27And he's actually good, right?
13:29He's a name we know.
13:31Yeah, it's just really fun to try to figure that out.
13:35It's fun, but it's also you know that there's really nothing to figure out.
13:39It's still just going to be totally subjective.
13:42And Bulldog is big on the Bengals, which is fine.
13:46They have had some bad years.
13:48They've had a terrible defense.
13:51They have the Ravens and even the Steelers to have to beat out.
13:55They won six games last year with their guys.
13:58I mean, not for the whole year, but for a good enough burrow, what,
14:01half the year last year.
14:03Still, what kind of season is that?
14:05How much, this is really the question, with any of these teams,
14:08how much respect do they really deserve?
14:12Well, the point I keep thinking of with them is that on the apps
14:19where you can see a point spread for every game on the schedule,
14:22they are favored 15 times.
14:25It's only 17 games.
14:26The Bengals are favored 15 times.
14:28There's a schedule worth taking a second look at, if that's true.
14:33So, to me, and this Bulldog and I are different on them,
14:37to me, they've got – it's a little bit of a form of the Chargers point.
14:42They've got to do it before I'm willing to give them that benefit of the doubt.
14:47The Chargers have had better seasons of late than the Bengals have.
14:51So, at least there's that.
14:53Not that they've gone far.
14:54But they've gotten in.
14:56And they've just kind of – they've got to do it, Cincinnati,
14:59for as many times as they're favored
15:01and as much as we love their wide receivers and their quarterback.
15:06I don't know.
15:07That's just – I've looked forward to having a chance to stretch out on the AFC.
15:12It just happened because our guest – that didn't work out.
15:15But I'd love to hear some feedback.
15:17Like, who would be your number one?
15:21Do the Bills have claim to that?
15:23Do the Broncos?
15:24How many teams, like, really could be number one?
15:28When we've done these rankings, it's been Denver, it's Buffalo today,
15:31it's been Jacksonville, and there's New England.
15:35And I don't know.
15:36Like, if you want to bring history into it,
15:40it's not recent history other than last year with the Patriots,
15:44but there's a ton of it.
15:45Do you want to talk about what it might be worth organizationally
15:49to have a championship history?
15:52I mean, they've got a stack of trophies.
15:54So, that could be mentioned in their favor, I think, too,
15:57even though the players are probably all different since then.
16:01803-0550 for your calls.
16:03We've got Matt Collar coming up at 5.
16:06So, lines open for you now.
16:07This is Mike Shope on WGR.
16:09And then, we'll get back to work.
16:09Let's get back to work.
16:09We'll be back.
16:10We'll be back.
16:11We'll be back.
16:11So, you guys, what have those things?
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