Consider This: Higher Education — What the AI Generation Wants

Name: Consider This: Higher Education — What the AI Generation Wants
Uploaded: 2026-08-11T12:00:30+00:00
Duration: 25 min 26 s
Channel: AWANI

00:10Hello and good evening, I'm Melissa Idris. Welcome to Consider This. This is the show

00:15where we want you to consider and reconsider what you know of the news of the day. To mark

00:19International Youth Day, tonight we're looking at how young people are confronting one of

00:25the biggest changes to the future of education and work, which is of course AI. Students at

00:32University of Nottingham Malaysia have produced Southeast Asia's very first student written AI

00:37manifesto. It's titled, While the Machine Learns, a manifesto on AI education. And it hopefully will

00:45give us some insight into what young people think is the future of learning in tertiary education.

00:52So joining me on the show, I have with me from University of Nottingham Malaysia, Christine

00:58Tan Kayan and Yukta Mugi Kandasami. Welcome to the show both of you. Thank you so much for

01:03being here. So what a beautiful manifesto. It looks a little bit like a vinyl when I first

01:08saw it. I'm so curious to know how this project came about. And Yukta, if I may begin with

01:13you, maybe you can take us to the very beginning. How did this manifesto project come to life?

01:19Yeah. So firstly, it all began with a module called Writing for the Media. And our convener

01:26is Dr. Ahmad Fuad. And we also had formal partnerships with Cellcom Digi, journalist Raina Lam, as well

01:37as Trapper Group. And so actually this manifesto, as we mentioned, it is a manifesto for AI in education.

01:45And it has 15 principles in it, each tracing back to a real student project. And this was

01:52a two-fold assignment where AI was both the strategic analyst and the object of critique.

01:59So firstly, we would share our ideas, like what is our project about, give some context behind it. And

02:05then we would ask it to play devil's advocate, to highlight what's good, what's bad, what could be

02:13improved on. And at the same time, we would look, and at the same time, it would also be the

02:19object

02:21of critique. So what we would do is that we would interrogate it and break down the machine to come

02:26up

02:26with an investigative narrative on a daily aspect in terms of AI. So that would include context, truth,

02:35agency, authorship, choice, etc. So we have plenty to choose from. And so what came from that is that

02:43we found that, you know, we came up with creative and compelling narratives for the public. So what we did

02:52was each group came up with about three to five Instagram reels. The total runtime was under 10

02:59minutes. We had to get familiar with audience engagement. And also we felt that we were more

03:06confident in demystifying new tech practices. So yeah, sounds good. Okay, I'm going to bring Christine

03:13into this conversation. So this was kind of a collective group project. Talk to me about the kind of central

03:20question you wanted to answer because I think that the premise of it of understanding what AI can and

03:27cannot do and what we we can and cannot achieve with AI was quite interesting. Tell me more about it.

03:32Yeah, so this manifesto basically begs the question, how can we learn with AI without losing what makes

03:37us human? Right, because I think when AI entered the educational space, students adopted it quite rampantly

03:45because we realised that, wow, we can do our assignments for us so quickly. Yeah. But I think the

03:49question became, okay, if AI can do our assignments for us, what does that mean? What does that say about

03:55our education? What was our education teaching us in the first place? So I think that's what this

04:00whole manifesto was. Can I ask both of you, when did you first become aware of how AI could help

04:07in your

04:08life? When did you first both start using AI? Do you remember when? Were you in university at the time?

04:14Yes. You were already in university? Yes. I think maybe ChatGPT was starting to get really popular,

04:22like during my foundation days. Okay. But I actually did not know that, I actually did not understand or

04:30know like how powerful it actually was. Like I would see my friends like, we would just use it to,

04:35um, oh, like plan my day for me. Just like stupid questions. Just for fun, without realising how

04:44powerful it is. That's actually interesting because it means that your cohort actually came into university

04:50with these tools, right? You're the first kind of test case of how AI can fit into education. When you

04:57spoke to your colleagues and working, your cohort working in these, on this project, what is it they tell

05:03you? How do students use AI? How did your peers, your friends use AI? I mean, yes, planning the day

05:09was one thing, but are there other uses of AI that you surprised you that you didn't realise that people

05:16used it for? I think the use of AI among students depends on what faculty they are in. Because it's

05:22definitely, I think as we are humanity students, we do international communications, we also do a lot of

05:27writing. So I think for us, we definitely felt like, okay, if we could use AI to write for us,

05:32but that's essentially, that's primarily our task. What does that say about us as writers then,

05:38if AI can write so eloquently or seemingly eloquently? And in seconds and minutes, right?

05:43But I think people who are in, I think those who are in comm science, they definitely use it as

05:48like

05:48a quick fix. Like, wow, it's so easy now to do my assignments. But I think one of the things

05:55students

05:55actually feel is this sense of ambivalence. So that means actually we have this like love and hate

06:00relationship with it. Like on one hand, it's so convenient, it's efficient. On another hand,

06:06we feel like by outsourcing our skill and cognition to it, we actually don't gain much

06:13value from our education. And then there is also this unsettling feeling of people telling us that

06:19AI is going to enter the workforce. And if we are not, if we don't know how to use it

06:25well,

06:25we will be left behind. Right. Like, right. Yeah. There's a lot of that fear mongering,

06:29that alarmist narrative. Yeah. Because fresh graduates are one of the groups of people that

06:35are quite affected by the adoption of AI into workplaces. Yeah. Absolutely. I love the description

06:40of a love-hate relationship. Is that how you feel, Yuta? Yeah. Actually, like, I think for me,

06:51How do you feel about it? Do you have that same tension of, I like the ease of it, but

06:57I also

06:58am scared of the dependence on that? What was some of the things that surprised you

07:02when you were working on this manifesto? I think when, especially before working on this manifesto,

07:09I think I was more like, I felt whatever with it. Like, it's ambivalent, right? Ambivalent.

07:14I was like, okay, whatever, like, it's just this thing. I don't even use it like that. So,

07:19but then when, and I personally don't really use AI that much. Okay. So, but then because we had to

07:27actually use it for our assignment and everything, I was actually surprised by how

07:35some people use, actually use AI, you know, because like, in my group, it's either we don't use it at

07:41all, or there's people that use it every day, all the time for everything, including the assignments

07:46and everything. So, one of the things that surprised me about when I talk to young people is how much

07:51they incorporate AI in, they're almost like a counsellor, almost like checking in with AI about

07:58decisions, about friendships and relationships. And that was an aspect that was, for me, kind of

08:05new. I hadn't considered, I thought AI was very, or gen AI was very work-related in the workplace or

08:12to

08:12learn something new. So, one of the things that I also really like about the way you approach this

08:17project was, you called it an AI autopsy, right? So, you talked about AI was the object of critique.

08:24Let's talk a little bit about that, about what you discovered as students, the flaws of AI,

08:32what AI can and cannot do. Christine, if I may come to you. Yeah. So, I think I would like

08:37to expand a bit

08:38more on how Yukhtar explained to the module, but basically we were broken down into groups of like

08:43four and each of us tackled a different human value. So, for example, this group looked at authorship,

08:50another group looked at agency, truth, context, love, empathy. So, we definitely delved into the

08:57different ways that people can actually use gen AI. For example, one group actually looked into empathy

09:03and they told it through like a child's educational. So, how do you, how do you really wrestle with the

09:12machine? And you ask the questions, yes, when like people go to AI as a therapist, but what kind of

09:18empathy is actually, are you experiencing? Is it a true human connection? If it is, then what does that

09:23say about our human relationships? If not, what is it about us humans that AI actually cannot replace?

09:27What is it good at doing? But what can it not do that humans are really good at? So, actually,

09:35there was this article written, I think, in Numa online. She is actually a researcher at OpenAI and

09:45she talked about how ChatGPT can interpret your grief. As in, when you tell it, man, I like went

09:52through something really difficult. ChatGPT can seem understanding, can seem very empathetic,

09:59even more empathetic than a human at times. But what it cannot do is participate in your grief.

10:04It cannot sit with you as you lie awake at 3am fighting demons in your head. It cannot sit with

10:09you the way that a human can. So, I think being able to study it deeply and see these distinctions,

10:16I think, for me personally, it has helped me to be more confident in human, in what is inherently

10:23human, that AI. So, like, the idea of AI is replacing us, I know for a fact that it will

10:30not.

10:30Yeah, but I feel like, and that is the kind of confidence that I think my classmates and I have

10:35gained through a module like this. Oh, wonderful. So, the more you learn about it, the more you see

10:41what makes us human is quite irreplaceable, right? There were principles that you put forth as part

10:49of your manifesto. And I wanted to ask about that, if we may zoom in on some of the principles.

10:54So,

10:54the manifesto says AI education is critical, it's not just instrumental. And I'm curious to know what

10:59that means. Talk to me about that. What does AI education, what is it that you're hoping comes up from

11:07this manifesto? Yukta? I think when it comes in relation to that particular

11:15principle, I think what we were hoping for is that when we interrogate this machine or when we make any

11:22decisions really, the thing is, if we continue to use AI, we are actually outsourcing our cognition to

11:30this machine. And what that happens is that we actually trust the machine more and trust ourselves the

11:36less. And our critical thinking skills actually get weaker. And I also want to touch a bit upon

11:46epistemology as well. So, what that means is the study of how we know what is real and true. And

11:54so, for

11:55example, if we say, oh, yeah, a banana is yellow, we know that it is yellow, because we know that,

12:08okay, yellow is this colour. And we know that it's a banana. But if you tell, if you ask AI,

12:14like, oh,

12:14do you know what yellow is? It was a yeah, yeah, I know. But it's actually all pattern recognition,

12:20word recognition and everything. Because when you say banana, what usually comes before that,

12:26yellow. So, it's all just pattern recognition. It doesn't inherently know it, like intrinsically

12:31know it, right? It just learns from the data. And another thing as well, we actually talked about

12:39this before. But it's this thing called incidental learning. So, and that's actually what this

12:49manifesto is about. It's about a slow exploration, slow learning, where, for example, back then,

12:57when we wanted to gain knowledge, we would read books and actually let go through the whole thing.

13:03And then one thing would lead to another, because there's all these, all these concepts

13:07and ideas and theories, fall down rabbit holes. Yes. And so, and then we learn more. But now,

13:14when you use Google, what comes up is that Gemini summary, right? Yeah. And then,

13:18a lot of people just take the answer that it gives you, right? Without even clicking.

13:23They don't even click into the links and read for themselves to fact check. And so, you're just,

13:29and when you do that, you actually outsource your coordination and you don't trust yourself.

13:33You trust the machine's judgment. And so, our whole thing is to just come back and to recalibrate,

13:40really slow down and come back to trusting your true human instinct to your thinking.

13:47Yeah. I really like that, taking a kind of slower approach, right? We don't have to rush and skim

13:51through everything. So, so talk to me about this because you're, you're in university, you're essentially

13:56the first kind of cohort having to deal with this. Something you said a little bit earlier,

14:01Kristin, kind of piqued my interest. What is the role of a university education can be given in

14:09in the age of AI? If all this information is at your fingertips, if it's the easier way to just

14:17kind of get AI to do your assignments, what do young people see as the value of a university education

14:24today? Yeah. Actually, if I could answer through one of the student projects, which was, which was my

14:29student project, because we looked at authorship in educational spaces. So, who is the true author

14:34of your education, right? And for my project, we actually interviewed students in our university,

14:40asking them, um, is this the death of the university? Oh yeah. Wow. Like in the age of AI,

14:47right? Like, because the argument is that students really pay so much to go to uni. We pay so much

14:53in

14:53the hopes that we would gain a good education in order to get a higher paying job so that we

14:58could

14:59improve our standard of living, um, live the good life, whatever it is. But we feel that that dream is

15:04crumbling because we pay so much to go to uni. We learn these skills and we come out and we

15:08are rendered

15:09obsolete by, um, the rapid adoption of AI. Um, and many students actually feel like, um, they feel

15:17like you have to be able to use AI critically in order to be competitive in the workspace. Yet,

15:23they also feel uncomfortable with how much they are using it. Yeah. But I think, um, the conclusion of

15:30my group's argument, which is also, I would say, the soul of this manifesto is that, um, I think AI

15:36is

15:37just a light to expose the issues that are already there in university institutions because we see

15:43that universities unfortunately have become quite commercialized. They are businesses, um, but they

15:49are also quite fossilized in the sense that when changes happen, they are slow to respond just because

15:54of how big they are, right? Yeah. It's a huge organization. So what would you like to see? How would

15:59you

15:59like, um, universities to adapt to AI based on the projects and, and kind of putting together this

16:05manifesto? Clearly, I love that young people are taking, are speaking out about this because often

16:12what we hear, um, is how do universities adapt to it? How are, how are the faculty adapting to it?

16:19How,

16:20how's government adapting to AI? But you never really ask the people who are using it and who will be

16:26most affected by it. So Yolta, what would you like, how would you like universities to respond to this

16:33wonderful manifesto for AI education that you guys have put out? I think, um, in generally speaking,

16:39I feel that when people think about AI, they think about comp sci, like, uh, AI developing and all like

16:44that. But I think what people really miss out on is the human and ethical aspect of it. And I

16:50think,

16:50um, Nottingham, um, what they're doing is that, um, there is a PhD module called humanizing AI that will be

16:58taught by Professor Joanne, I think so. And so she'll be teaching this module. And then we have

17:03this module as well, right? Um, and next is module will be focusing more on discernment and judgment,

17:09I believe. So, um, it is, uh, I feel like, uh, at least Nottingham has been adapting, they are evolving,

17:17um, which is great to see. But I think, um, because we, we are the, uh, so to say customers,

17:25we are the paying, we are the ones paying for an education, I feel like, um, our, our student voices

17:33needs to be, um, uh, amplified for sure. Yes, for sure. Uh, and, um, we have been going around campus,

17:41uh, and then we have been sharing our manifestos, uh, to our professors, to management and everything,

17:47but I still think that we could be heard more. What are they telling you when you go around

17:54talking to people? Um, I guess I kind of on the, the tour circuit for what, what are you hearing

18:03from the people? What, what feedback have you heard from them? Right. So besides campus, besides, uh,

18:08doing the rounds on campus, we have also been meeting different parties, um, externally. So

18:12we've met like the Ministry of Higher Education. We spoke to the Deputy Minister YB Adam Ali. Actually,

18:17it was the first meeting that we had. And I think the reception was very encouraging because he said that

18:22the government obviously is thinking a lot about AI by 2030, we want to be an AI nation. I mean,

18:26the supplier, um, of AI services, but he did say that, I mean, I don't really want to put words

18:32in his

18:32mouth, but paraphrasing, um, that actually, uh, the philosophical human, um, side of the argument is

18:42not as, it's not really being discussed a lot. And especially from student voices. Yes. Um, and I think we

18:49spoke to, um, we also met with like YTL, AI labs because they're building the first, um, not the

18:56first, actually there are many, but they are building a Malaysian AI model. So I'm getting to

19:01talk to them and asking, what do they think about when they build, um, the model and telling them

19:06that actually this is what we students are thinking about. And we desire for our voices to have a place

19:11in this discussion. Yeah. Because I think a principle that we hold onto is the principle of subsidiarity,

19:17which was actually mentioned, um, by the Pope in his, in his encyclical. That's right. Yeah.

19:24He actually mentioned that, um, decisions need to be made closest as possible to the people who

19:29will be affected by it. Right. So we don't, we, as students, the party, one of the parties that are

19:33greatly affected by AI, we don't just want to sit back and wait for decisions to be made. We want

19:38to

19:38go to these people and say, Hey, we've thought about this. We've wrestled with it. We came up with our

19:42own arguments. We produced a manifesto, listen to our voice. We want us, we want to be able to

19:48be part of this discussion. Yeah. Have you encountered any, almost, um, pushback from

19:54this? Are there people who say, well, you know, again, that kind of ageism comes into play. What

19:58do young people know? And, uh, you know, what, what do you say to people who think that

20:04you're overstating the problem that you're like, you know, you're leaving, you're trying to adapt to

20:10a workplace that will, AI will be kind of integrated into, um, have there been any naysayers

20:17that you've encountered before? Um, I don't. Okay. So I think the reception has been quite

20:23good. They have been quite positive actually, but I think, uh, one stereotype that we get is that,

20:29oh, we're young, uh, we're, we're digital natives. So we're very good. We're very tech savvy and whatnot.

20:34And we're all like pro AI. We're for AI. Oh my God. We love AI. But actually, um, uh, like

20:42AI is

20:42making us dumber. Like we rely so much on it and stuff. Uh, I think this is what, uh, the,

20:48I think

20:48this is the narrative that, that has been going around. We actually had somebody that said like,

20:52oh, I'm actually quite surprised to see that, um, you know, like, uh, the youth these days, students

20:58these days are actually grappling with this question on AI. Oh, because they assumed that

21:03young people love AI and want to depend to their lives on AI. Is that the assumption?

21:09Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that has been going, this narrative that has been going around,

21:12but actually I think like us producing this manifesto is, uh, an antithesis to that. Like,

21:17we have, but I have to say it's not anti AI either. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

21:24So, um, in kind of the kind of closing the time that we have left, can I ask the both

21:30of you,

21:30where do we go from here? What would you like to see happen next? All the work that has come.

21:34It's the first in Southeast Asia. I'm very proud of that for you, for your entire class. Uh, what would

21:41you like to see happen next? And for you personally, um, for young people out there who may be watching

21:48tonight, who may be also grappling with this love, hate relationship, this tension of, um, learning

21:55at a time of AI, what would you like to say? If I may begin with you, Yuta first. Um,

22:00I think firstly,

22:01um, we are very grateful with where, where we are at right now. Uh, we've gotten so many amazing

22:06opportunities, uh, especially, uh, from the Ministry of Higher Education. They've offered us an exclusive,

22:11uh, gallery exhibition at the parliament actually, um, which is amazing. Uh, they've also invited us

22:17to festival of ideas, um, to showcase our work in Putrajaya. Um, and then we're also, uh, we're also

22:27in talks with Pintar, uh, and they might, uh, be printing 10,000 copies of our manifesto for us. So

22:34we're actually very grateful for all this positive, um, feedback and everything. Um, but I think for me

22:41personally, um, I would like to see more students, uh, voice out, um, you know, be dissentful, you know,

22:51be more dissenting, speak out and come back to that true. Um, how do I say this? Like, uh, come

23:01back to

23:01yourself, trust your human instinct and whatnot. Um, yeah, that's basically. Yeah. If I can add on

23:09actually the offer from Pintar was quite unexpected because they actually read through our material,

23:15they loved it so much. They actually wanted to sign an MOU with us. Yeah. So that is kind of

23:19like

23:20in the talks to translate this document to Malay, because obviously we don't want this to just stay at

23:25our, like the university, Nottingham English level. Sure. So it will be translated and they would also want

23:30print it out and roll out pilot projects actually in different states across Malaysia. So I think

23:35that's very exciting because I think we would want, um, not just university students, but this is also

23:41affecting secondary school students, primary school students. How are they grappling with it? Because I

23:45think as uni students, well, we've went through some degree of education where we didn't have AI. So

23:51critical thinking, judgment, all these things, we already have some of those things, which helps us.

23:56But I really wonder for a generation that is born into a world where AI is the norm,

24:01how are they going to build those skills? Um, so I think, yeah, really excited for the next few steps

24:06that we have. But for me personally, um, I think I would really hope for more people to feel encouraged

24:17and not disheartened because I think the idea, the narrative that AI is inevitable is actually false.

24:23It is not true because every technological progression happens because decisions were made

24:29by people with power, with the resources, and they decided to invest in this thing. That's how AI began.

24:35So I would encourage people not to feel powerless, as powerless as you may feel. Um,

24:41but to really grapple with it. And I think when you go through a module like this and you realize

24:47what is it inherently about you as a person that is irreplaceable, I think it's, um, a very empowering

24:53feeling. It has been for me and I will hope for people. It's confidence building, right? Wonderful.

24:57Thank you both for coming on and telling us about this project. I appreciate your time. Thank you.

25:01Thank you so much. That's all the time we have for you on this episode of Consider This.

25:05I'm Melissa Idris signing off for the evening. Thank you so much for watching. Good night.

Consider This: Higher Education — What the AI Generation Wants

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