Consider This: 13MP | A Vision for Education? (Part 2) - Video Dailymotion

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The 13th Malaysia Plan, which is the Government’s blueprint for national development over the next five years, was unveiled last week. Among its many ambitions are efforts to strengthen the education system and develop a future-ready workforce. But do the policies go far enough to ensure Malaysia’s human capital is fit for 2030 and beyond? On this episode of #ConsiderThis Melisa Idris speaks with Professor Moses Samuel, Senior Research Fellow with the School of Education at Taylor's University, and Honorary Professor at Universiti Malaya’s Faculty of Education.

Transcript

00:00Hi, welcome back to Consider This. I'm Melissa Idris. Let's continue our discussion about the

00:1513th Malaysia Plan, which was tabled in Parliament last week. We're zooming in on the policy roadmap

00:22that's been outlined specifically for education and human capital development. Joining me on the

00:28show now is Professor Moses Samuel, who's Senior Research Fellow with the School of Education at

00:32Taylor's University. He's also an Honorary Professor at University of Malaysia's Faculty of Education.

00:39Prof Moses, thank you so much for being on the show with me today. Was there anything in the

00:4313th Malaysia Plan that you thought might be a game changer for education and for building

00:49Malaysia's human capital? Well, I want to step back a little bit. And I think when we look at

00:55Malaysia plans, we must realize they are five year plans. And they were built on the old Soviet

01:01style development plans. That's good in a sense, because it offers a medium term or slightly long

01:09term perspective. What it doesn't do is it doesn't because of the time span, it doesn't deal with

01:21mid-flight changes. You know, I'm thinking of an analogy of an aeroplane that's flying to a destination.

01:28There are mid-flight changes that you take to deal with turbulences and so on. And this is especially

01:36critical now, because we're dealing with a period of uncertainty, economic uncertainty, on the one hand,

01:45and also technological change, which is happening so fast, you can't predict what's going to happen in

01:51five years. Two years might be a more realistic target. And especially when technology seems to be

02:01part of the education, part of the blueprints. I think this is something that we need to take into

02:07account, especially when you're dealing with the training of teachers. So in a period of rapid change

02:14all around, I think the five-year targets are good. But there must also be, well, planners need to take

02:23cognizance of how you can tweak and monitor what's going on. That's my take on Malaysia plans.

02:34Right. You're right. It is kind of a long period for something as quickly evolving as the education

02:47system. Can we talk a little bit about some of the things that the plan got right in terms of its

02:54vision for the education system of Malaysia over the five years? Was there anything that you thought

03:00really stood out to you in saying, okay, it's good that we've got this on the table now,

03:04that we're thinking about these issues? Well, one of the things I think that the plan is trying to

03:11address is access to education right throughout the system. And I like the systemic kind of an approach,

03:19making sure people have a head start in education with early childhood education,

03:25specific sectors like the Orang Asli, you know, rural schools, rural teachers. So I think in a sense,

03:37it's got the access dimension right. I mean, it's good to focus on it. Of course, the challenges are in

03:43terms of the granularity, how it's implemented. Yeah. So I think that's one challenge that is obvious.

03:54It alludes to a number of things, the emphasis on looking at professional development of teachers,

04:02that is alluded to in the plan, without details being fleshed out. We're also seeing emphasis on

04:11preschool education, you know, starting at the age of five, the emphasis on AI, which is new in terms of

04:22curriculum. The emphasis on STEM, the emphasis on multiple languages in primary school. So a number of

04:31things they have touched the right buttons, I would put it that way. Having said that, I think the devil is

04:40always in the details in terms of how it's implemented, how it's carried out, how it's operationalized on the

04:46ground. So I'm happy that at least there is acknowledgement of important areas that we need to work on.

04:55And of course, I'm cautiously optimistic about how the program is going to play out in the next five years.

05:04So how do you think this might fit into, because we're also expecting a new education blueprint,

05:11which is a longer term blueprint. How, as you said, the devil is in the details, but how do you think that,

05:19or what do you think the blueprint ought to be, ought to flash these buttons out, do you think?

05:30Well, two broad areas. One is the school system, from kindergarten right through form five SPM.

05:39And also there's the higher education sector, which is also referred to.

05:44Um, as far as the school level is concerned, I think, um, what we will hope to see now is how teachers

05:54are empowered and provided agency to deal with many of the challenges that are, in a sense, new in a

06:01changing environment. How do you deal with artificial intelligence? Uh, how do you deal with, um, preschool

06:10education? Um, you know, so it's, it's a question of teacher preparedness and continuous professional

06:16development. I think that is something that we're going to expect right through the school system.

06:21Right. Yeah. Okay. You mentioned higher education, um, and the 13th Malaysia Plan also talks about

06:28reforms for tertiary education in terms of, um, the ministry's portfolio, kind of the segregation or

06:35demarcation of that. Also talked a little bit about piloting autonomy for public universities,

06:41um, and also improving global competitiveness. Can I ask you, Professor Moses, what you think,

06:46whether you think those are the right, um, buttons to hit? Uh, yeah. Do you think these changes are

06:53going to be sufficient to address some of the structural issues that we know plague the higher education system?

06:59Well, it's a good first step, I think, to recognize this. Um, I think these are issues that were even

07:06highlighted in the previous higher education blueprint, but there remain a lot of issues even

07:11from that blueprint to now where we're at. And the first issue I can think of is governance issues in

07:19terms of higher ed. Um, there needs to be clear demarcation between the roles of the ministry of higher

07:28education and the emerging autonomous universities. There seems to be a role overlap. Um, and I can

07:38understand why this is so because public universities, for example, are funded by public funds. Um, and

07:45therefore, um, the ministry of higher education often gets to call the shots because they are,

07:51uh, they hold the purse strings, you know, um, and incidentally, this might result in political

07:59interference in terms of shaping the cost of higher education. Um, so I think that's one issue that has

08:06to be ironed out, uh, to reduce the kind of overlaps and to see what autonomy really means, um, and how that

08:15autonomy actually is tied to the national agenda, the national development agenda. I mean, that's one of

08:23the things about public universities, especially at the undergrad level where you're providing human

08:29capital development for the population. And, um, it has to be tied very closely to emerging sectors of

08:38growth and how it serves the national agenda while at the same time contributing to scholarship,

08:43international scholarship, you know, however that may take us. So it's a question of, um,

08:50deciding to strike a balance between these two things.

08:53Right. That's really interesting. Can you talk to me more about that? Because when we look at, um,

08:59a roadmap for developing Malaysia's human capital, if that is the goal, then what's missing from this

09:06broader vision? I'm just wondering whether, like you said, uh, are we aligned with some, the,

09:11the, the, the shifts that may happen during this time, jobs that may not even exist yet? Uh, are we looking

09:18at it as a whole of government approach or is this solely resting on the shoulders of higher education, uh,

09:26or, you know, and universities?

09:27Yeah. Um, couple of issues there. One of course is, um, whether the graduates that come out of the higher ed system,

09:37uh, fit into the emerging workplace. Uh, there's been a recent report, um, by Kazana,

09:45a report that's called Shifting Tides, which shows that many graduates who are coming out of the system

09:52are starting with very low salaries. You know, um, I was looking at the statistics, 66% earned below

10:002000, this was 2021 figures, uh, 10% earn over 3000. Um, so they're under, underemployed and very often

10:11there isn't a fit between the kind of specializations that they have developed and the kind of work that

10:16they're doing. Um, and these things haven't changed in the last decade, haven't changed very much in the

10:22last decade. So the system needs to sort of respond so that graduates are future ready. Graduates are

10:30ready for the new workplace. Um, and that's changing very fast, you know? Um, so that's one, one area

10:37that needs to be looked at. There are many things that higher ed can do, um, exploring internships, for

10:43example, um, looking at different kinds of systems, looking at TVET related higher ed. Um, TVET very

10:52often is, uh, a second option, uh, or it's perceived that way, at least in the public, uh, public size.

10:59So the question of how higher education might have a vocational focus, um, for TVET as well,

11:08so that there isn't this kind of two tier system. Um, and that requires different universities with

11:15different strengths and different specializations to deal with it on, on their own terms. You know,

11:23um, I think the big picture from MOHI might be a guiding, might provide guiding light, but I think

11:30universities with their academics, with their different areas of specializations, all universities

11:36don't have to be the same. They have different strengths. You know, I mean, we tend to think in

11:40terms of, uh, monitoring things so that it's one size fits all. I mean, each university can develop

11:45their own strengths, you know, either in applied sciences or the social sciences or whatever issues

11:51they're dealing with, um, based on the staff that they have developed, both the local and international

11:58staff. So staff develop expertise in terms of research. Um, and I think that's one thing that can be

12:05done. So it's, one is the fit employability, the fit to the real workplace. The other issue I can see

12:13emerging in higher ed is the kind of gulf that's emerging between research universities and teaching

12:22universities. And I think research is very often interest, concerned about advancing the frontiers of

12:30knowledge. But a lot of those, a lot of the work that's done in research can actually dovetail with

12:38more teaching universities. And I think what we can see is more collaborations, um, not coordinated from

12:45the top. I mean, I, sometimes we might expect a hidden hand to, to manage it, but I think developing it in

12:51terms of, you know, ways in which the research agendas of the universities can actually drive the teaching

12:57agenda so that teaching universities also benefit from the research as consumers, not necessarily as

13:04producers, but also as consumers of this research.

13:07Very interesting points that you've given us to think about tonight. Uh, Prof, thank you so much for

13:13sharing some of your insights with us. Educationist Professor Moses Samuel from Taylor's University

13:18and University of Malaya. Wrapping up this episode of Consider This. I'm Melissa Idris,

13:23signing off for the evening. Thank you so much for watching and good luck.

Consider This: 13MP | A Vision for Education? (Part 2)

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