00:00Okay, let me go then to one of my newsmakers tonight. I'm joined by Thukaram Munde, the man making all
00:06the headlines in Mumbai could set a precedent for the entire country. He is, of course, in charge of the
00:12Food and Drug Administration of Maharashtra's commissioner, the crackdown taking place on restaurants, clubs and several food eateries across Mumbai
00:22and Maharashtra.
00:23I appreciate your joining us. Mr. Thukaram Munde, someone told me this morning, you're the new singham in town. You're
00:29going around cancelling or suspending licenses of eateries across Mumbai and Maharashtra. Is that how you see your role on
00:38some kind of a personal crusade?
00:42I'm actually a Food Safety Commissioner of Maharashtra and my expectation that this becomes a public movement where everybody of
00:51us eat safe, standard and healthy food.
00:57No, so are you saying that this is not a personal crusade and therefore what you're doing is only your
01:04job as Food Safety Commissioner of Maharashtra to crack down on what you believe are unhygienic places, not following the
01:12rules?
01:15Absolutely, that's my role.
01:20But, you know, what does that say that suddenly in 2026, someone comes and says, clubs that have been established
01:27like the Cricket Club of India for almost 100 years, you're suspending their licenses.
01:32Many restaurants have been in existence for decades.
01:35Does this mean that the kitchens of these places have existed like this for years? No one did anything till
01:41you have come?
01:45No, I think we have to understand in the context, Rajiv, if you are really looking at it.
01:49Before 2011, there was a prevention of Food Adelteration Act.
01:53The whole focus was on preventing adulteration.
01:57In 2011, as per 2006 Act, which we started implementing in 2011, food standards and safety came in.
02:05So this is a 360 degree change.
02:06And this 360 degree change will require change in approach also, changing culture also.
02:12Of both food business operators and regulators as well.
02:16I think we are maturing over a period of time.
02:17Regulations have come over a period of time.
02:20Till now, there are around 22 types of regulations in food sector.
02:23We are trying to implement it.
02:25When we change the system, that to a big degree, from preventing adulteration to safe and standard food, there is
02:31going to be annoying.
02:33We have to accept that.
02:34And our purpose, as a food safety commissioner of Maharashtra, my purpose is actually, when I started, there was a
02:40strategy.
02:40What we decided a goal is safe food, safe breath, safe Maharashtra.
02:44That was the overall arching goal.
02:46And the strategy for that, we decided what we call PE or E3.
02:49First is empowerment of the people.
02:52Second is enabling businesses.
02:54And third one is enforcing the law as it is.
02:58So this, we are going with E3 strategy, where all the stakeholders will benefit ultimately, leading to better health of
03:05the people.
03:08I'll come to those specifics in a moment.
03:10But I want to know, you have the full support of the government on this, on this crackdown that you
03:14have on these places across Mumbai?
03:20Absolutely.
03:21That's how I work on behalf of the government itself.
03:27But, you know, but how do you respond, Mr. Munday?
03:30Today, the Bombay High Court, one of the judges said that the Food and Drug Administration should take a realistic
03:36view that this is India, that the standards of compliance that you are expecting here may not be what it
03:44is in other parts of the world, dare I say.
03:47How do you respond to those who say, we are living in India, you may have the odd fly here,
03:53dare I say, a cockroach around.
03:56You can't expect 100% compliance that should lead to instant suspension of a license.
04:04I have not heard of those comments, but this has come through you or various people.
04:10Be as it may whatever High Court has said.
04:13These standards are prepared by Food Safety Authority of India, and those are applicable across India.
04:19So those are realistic standards considering Q here, conditions here.
04:23And it is not about 100% compliance, it is stages, depending on what type of non-compliance is there.
04:31So we issue improvement notices to those where food safety is not compromised.
04:37But if food safety is compromised, which is going to affect the health of the person who is going to
04:42consume it, that is where the severity goes up.
04:45That is where the sensitivity goes up.
04:47And that's where we take actions like suspension.
04:51Where it is substandard or not unsafe, you implement notices and they improve and then once they comply, we take
04:59action as per that.
05:01Now, when the suspension is done, it is not a closure of a business, it is just a suspension of
05:06that activity till the food business operator complies with those norms.
05:10Once they comply, then they can come in, appeal to me, we respect it.
05:15And again, if they have found an order, they can start their business over again.
05:22But is there any pick and choose, Mr. Munde?
05:24Are you taking the same stand on government and semi-government and municipal canteens where we know the kitchens are
05:31often in filthy condition?
05:33Are you observing them with the same inspection rigor or are you targeting private establishments at the moment?
05:41I think you might have, you have run stories about BMC canteen being closed.
05:45We have inspected Mantralaya canteen also.
05:48We are taking action in Mumbai.
05:51We are taking action in Pune, Nakho, Chattabai, Zambajinagar, everywhere.
05:54It is not about pick and choose.
05:56It is not about club.
05:57It is not about restaurant.
05:59It is across the board, food business operators are there, whether it's milk and dairy products, whether it's about grocery,
06:09whether it's about restaurant, it is about even roadway, roadside food eateries also.
06:16So, it's neither pick and choose, neither discrimination.
06:19It is about food safety of the people.
06:23Sir, the fact is that you have targeted over 100 or nearly 100 food outlets have been shut in a
06:31short span, many of them iconic places in Mumbai.
06:35Now, there are those who fear this will affect long-standing businesses, employment, hospitality sector in general.
06:42Aren't you worried that by these actions of yours, there will be potential job losses?
06:47It will impact Mumbai's street food culture and that will have an economic cost?
06:54Absolutely.
06:54There is economic cost about the food businesses which are operating.
06:59We are not setting them down.
07:01We are either giving improvement notice or suspension.
07:03At the same time, we have to consider the cost, economic and social cost of those who will eat unsafe
07:09food and the effect on them also.
07:12One single eatery may have 20, 25, 50 people who are employed.
07:16But every day, there will be hundreds of people who are eating the food over there.
07:19So, you have to take care of them also.
07:21So, you have to balance this out.
07:22So, while balancing this out, food cannot be allowed.
07:26And these norms are not something new.
07:28They are in existence since 2011.
07:32But, you know, you're saying that the laws have changed and become tougher since 2011.
07:40That's my precise point that I raised earlier.
07:42These places have existed from the, you know, for almost 100 years.
07:46Many of the places you've cracked down on.
07:48How suddenly have you decided that these places are violating the law?
07:52It either means your predecessors were not observing the law and that you have suddenly decided to target them now.
07:59How will you respond to that criticism?
08:02If I can call it a criticism?
08:04First thing, we are not targeting.
08:05These are inspections based on either the complaints or intelligence or analysis.
08:10It's not something targeting a particular place, particular eatery, particular business or a trade.
08:15Absolutely not.
08:16So, it's basically awareness among the people who have gone up.
08:20We are much more active.
08:22Because earlier we did not have that much offices.
08:24Offices have been recruited.
08:26So, all these things have been playing now.
08:29They are falling in place.
08:31As a result, people are also aware because we have launched online portal for that, complaints.myfda.in.
08:39We are receiving a lot of complaints on that.
08:41We are using AI also.
08:43So, all these factors are there.
08:44It's not a single factor.
08:45As you are describing, we are targeting somebody.
08:49Sir, may I ask though, if a license is suspended, are you giving them a time frame within which they
08:56have to get their facilities right, improve them?
08:59Or is this going to be a prolonged period where they will be shut down?
09:04Once you suspend a license, is there a time frame within which they have to get their act together?
09:10One month, three months, 15 days?
09:12How are you proceeding against the places you've suspended?
09:16I think there is a clarity about it.
09:20Once license is suspended, what they are supposed to, food business operators are supposed to do, comply with the deficiencies
09:25and submit a report.
09:27Generally, within the 14 days maximum.
09:29That is what the general time is.
09:30Once they submit, we inspect, my officer goes and we inspect the place.
09:35And then on the basis of re-inspection report, we take a call out.
09:39It's not about three months.
09:41Generally, two weeks time.
09:42Generally, they comply.
09:44A re-inspection report is there.
09:46Hearing before me is there if they are filled.
09:47And we take a call out on the marriage.
09:52My final question, there will be those critics, cynics who will say that, are Tukaram Munde and the FDA using
09:58this to blackmail establishments?
10:00Is there any concept of blackmail, sir?
10:02Are you blackmailing them?
10:04Absolutely not.
10:05Absolutely not.
10:10Okay.
10:11I'll take your word for it there, Mr. Munde.
10:13Either way, yes, we need greater food safety and better hygienic standards.
10:17So, I am with you on the crusade, provided it's done transparently and is the same for all.
10:23But for now, I appreciate you joining us.
10:26It is going to be possibly a precedent for the entire country.
10:30Time to get our food safety laws in place.
10:33Thanks very much for joining me.
