How This Architect Turned $5M Into a $30M Real Estate Win with Kevin Kennon

The Real Estate Investing Club

Join an active community of RE investors here: https://linktr.ee/gabepetersen   🏙️ On this episode of The Real Estate Investing Club, I'm sitting down with Kevin Kennon, a New York City based architect and real estate developer with more than 40 years of experience designing skyscrapers, luxury condominiums, and now ultra exclusive wilderness resorts. Kevin has worked on iconic projects like the Sotheby's and Barclays headquarters, the Macy's Herald Square renovation, and the historic American Express Building conversion in Tribeca. He was even a finalist in the World Trade Center design competition after 9/11. If you're serious about real estate investing, adaptive reuse, or luxury hospitality development, this conversation is packed with insight you won't want to miss.   FROM SKYSCRAPERS TO WILDERNESS RESORTS  Kevin walks us through his journey from apprenticing under legendary architects to becoming a partner at Cone Pedersen Fox, where he focused on tall building design in New York City and Seattle. We talk about how the 2008 financial crisis reshaped his approach to real estate development and pushed him toward projects that mean something to him personally 🏔️.   Want to learn more about our guest? Connect here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinkennonarchitect/   Want to learn more about the REI Club Podcast, how to invest with Gabe at Kaizen, or join our community of active real estate investors on Skool? Visit the podcast website at https://www.therealestateinvestingclub.com or click here: https://linktr.ee/gabepetersen   Send us Fan Mail  Join the Online Community here: https://linktr.ee/gabepetersen.

Transcript

00:06all right we are back with another episode of the real estate investing club i hope you guys

00:12are having a great week great day wherever you are and whatever day it is for you as always it

00:18is friday on the podcast we're bringing that good friday energy to you and it is nice and rainy here

00:24in seattle which is good because that means all of that pollen that has just been destroying me

00:29in the past couple of weeks is leaving the air so i'm happy about that it is a good day

00:34for a second

00:35reason though because we have kevin cannon with us on the show he is an architect and a developer he

00:40has tons of experience over 40 years of experience um and he does wilderness resorts uh designed around

00:48intimacy sustain oops when i lost the space well-being adventure and safety winter wilderness

00:54resorts though super niche topic super interesting i'm excited to jump into this kevin thanks for

00:59hopping on hey gabe thanks for being here it's a real it's a pleasure i'm i'm i'm about as far

01:07away

01:07from you as i could get um being in new york city but uh we have equally gloomy weather so

01:13there's that

01:14yeah it's it's kind of nice it's kind of nice we actually had a a good week or week and

01:19a half of

01:19almost in the 70s here in seattle which is unheard of at this time of the year um it was

01:25it was great

01:25but it's nice to kind of go back into the cold that's a great city really love seattle yeah for

01:31sure um well kevin i told you before we got on here we always like to start with stories uh

01:36we like

01:36to hear how people got to where they are i know you have 40 years of experience so a lot

01:40to go into i

01:41know it's hard to hard to kind of compress that down into a short thing but why don't you take

01:45us to

01:45the beginning of your story in real estate and just tell us how you got here sure sure um well

01:51you know so my background is really as an architect and i you know i had the sort of good

01:56fortune over

01:57my career to have apprentice with some of the top architects in the world and i am pay and kevin

02:04roach

02:05and um also at a young age i became a partner in a firm called comb peterson fox who's done

02:11a few

02:11buildings uh in seattle uh for example and and and in new york city mainly focused on tall buildings

02:19skyscrapers i became a kind of expert in that area um and then 9-11 happened and i lived you

02:27know a few

02:27blocks away from ground zero and i got very involved in that i you know it essentially put together the

02:34temporary viewing platform um and then also i was a finalist in the world trade center design competition

02:40and that kind of propelled me into my own career which is what i've been doing you know uh ever

02:46since then so you know for the past 26 years um and um uh so yep i designed a lot

02:54of buildings uh all

02:55over new york city's sotheby's and barclays headquarters a building that's uh um you know so again most of them

03:03large complex i was in charge of the design and and uh renovation of macy's herald square

03:10the entire building uh that was a that was a big job um and so uh so that's been my

03:16focus i got

03:17involved in development a kind of a a funny way and so a group of us found a building in

03:24tribeca in new

03:25york city if you know this area it sort of was older manufacturing industrial that had been flipped

03:30over into lofts and became you know quite a quite an upscale neighborhood um uh and um and we we

03:39we got

03:39this building it was the original american express building uh we we gutted it and and put uh in a

03:46a

03:47sort of a almost like gerrymandering in terms of the plan because each each unit was built specifically to

03:54the group of investors that we had and involved in the project so um you know and and then proportionate

04:02to their investment was how much area they got and where they were located and so every floor was

04:07different unique and that that was a challenging of itself and then we also added uh two levels uh

04:14above that uh glass all glass building so it's originally all brick um it was designed as a um

04:21like the pony express so the so the the bottom was stables and then above were offices and then

04:27on top of that um so all that got converted uh and great building a block long and a very

04:35narrow

04:36cobblestone street that they use a lot for um movies uh so anyway so so that i got into that

04:43it was it was a

04:44really wild experience because it's also coincided with the financial crisis so um you know

04:51having to go through uh all that and if whatever reason i i've got very interested in in development

04:58uh as a result of that and so over the years i've gotten more and more focused on doing the

05:04kinds of

05:04things that that mean something to me i grew up in la right outside of la i spent most of

05:11my time

05:11growing up uh outdoors and and certainly in wilderness environments and uh all over the southwest

05:18primarily um and the sierras and the rockies uh so uh you know i i what happened uh during covet

05:27actually

05:28is i i got asked by a um a middle eastern um country uh to uh to to look at

05:37and do a feasibility study for

05:39a 500 key hotel i'm also an expert in hospitality in terms of design um and building the uh these

05:47types of

05:48uh resorts and anyway they asked me to do a feasibility study in this area that looks a lot

05:53like monument valley uh if you know that area at all of the world it's uh you know it's it's

06:00basically

06:01all the john ford westerns it's usually what the backdrop is the kind of mesas and yeah uh sandstone

06:07outcroppings anyway in this beautiful area a pristine area they wanted to build a 500 key hotel

06:12um and i i massed it out for them and they asked me at the end of my presentation you

06:18know what i

06:18thought of it and i said that i thought they were crazy um that uh you know that that's something

06:23that

06:23big and that kind of pristine uh um landscape you know was was really not the right thing to do

06:31um so i didn't last long on that project but i did come away thinking that was a really good

06:37idea

06:37and over the years i've been doing uh a lot of uh research in terms of where the market is

06:45going

06:45and and exactly how to navigate what is essentially i think we're locked into a k-shaped economy

06:52you know for the next uh you know certainly next decade or so um and and and then understanding

07:00what's going on um with luxury these days and it's it's changing quite a bit um over the past five

07:08years radically changing um and then it's also coinciding with a whole uh a kind of uh burgeoning

07:15travel that is um really much more social oriented and and and moving with larger groups being with

07:24larger groups and then also meeting people you know like-minded people uh of the certain uh let's

07:31call it you know a focus inclination yeah um so that's that's kind of where we're starting right

07:38now and and we you know we have a a very cool model i think that's unlike anything anybody else

07:45has done

07:45so that's also exciting too nice man well shoot there is a ton to to dive into there um i

07:52want to i want

07:53to focus on the wilderness resort aspects um you know luxury and travel before we do that you did

07:58mention you did some old buildings uh i have this dream in my head that i want to buy i

08:04just love old

08:05old buildings and i like there's a couple of them i live in tacoma washington it used to be an

08:10old

08:10kind of logging town sure um and there's some really old buildings that i i see all the time and

08:15i'm like

08:15i want to buy that i want to turn it into something i don't know what but um you've worked

08:19on old

08:19buildings like what are what's the highest and best use that you usually see for something you

08:25know an old kind of office building that uh you convert you know it depends you know it's all

08:31real estate's all local right so it really just depends on you know where it's located and what the

08:37demand is you know i think if you go into anything with an open mind i always like to start

08:42every

08:43project with a blank sheet of paper you know kind of throw out what i know and and not assume

08:48anything and just kind of go through the fundamentals on that so you know i think it's pretty easy once

08:54you understand a neighborhood what's the demand are you know what are the comps you know uh what would

09:00be your competition what would be your value add you know in this case because that's a we're talking

09:05about value add proposition refurbishing or repurposing old buildings um what is your process when

09:13you like say you find an old um old office building which you know not not huge maybe like

09:19five ten stories something like that what uh if you're looking at it like what is your process to

09:24to envision um how you're going to be changing it what you're going to be adding into it what you're

09:29going to be taking away that kind of stuff well in the case of the american express building we we've

09:34completely gutted the building you know and and started with a shell uh we could still you know

09:40that that's allowed in new york city you can you could do that and that was important because our

09:46use was completely changing obviously it was originally designed as a stable and and offices

09:51now we were building in what are essentially bespoke luxury apartments that's a completely different

09:57thing um and and and and the the general is we're not building like pre-war you know uh kinds

10:04of

10:05apartments they tend to be a little more open loft like you know but still you know when

10:10when you get up to the high end all the stuff that really matters are acoustic privacy and

10:15you know ability to control your environment you know lighting all that kind of stuff you know it

10:20really good everything kind of plays into it um but i think the other part of it is is especially

10:28when you're looking at all the buildings is you know first start out are there incentives you know

10:32out there you know to do that because anything that you know can reduce the friction especially

10:39around regulatory friction but also you know uh some of the financial burdens on that because what

10:46what i think a lot of people i i you know let's say newbies who are doing that um the

10:53mistake i

10:54most people make is that oh well you know i don't it's going to cost less because the building's

10:59already there that's not generally the case in my experience and i and i've i've been involved in not

11:06only that building but also macy's harrow square which is you know 1902 and actually you know

11:11it consisted of five different buildings stretching from broadway to 7th avenue along 34th street

11:16you know and every every building was you know kind of different had its own kind of existing

11:22conditions um you know how to navigate that and put in modern you know uh hbac system or you know

11:30hbp systems uh and and you know it's just it's just it's a challenge right so um and a lot

11:37of

11:37times is that it's a challenge of discovery you know you it's you don't really know what you've got

11:43until you've completely you know taken it apart um but but you know it can be worth it i mean

11:49there's

11:49a great project going up right now the flat iron building it's famous building new york city it's

11:53oh yeah you know i saw that in the paper actually yeah yeah i think it's about 1902 1905 was

12:00when you

12:01know it was the it was at the time the tallest building new york for maybe about a decade um

12:07but and also unusual because it's triangular shaped and you know yeah it's iconic for the new york uh

12:13new york skyline and that was an old office building that they now just converted into uh you know we'll

12:19see if they get you know what they they're asking for but it's a very very high uh multiple you

12:25know

12:26for that building in terms of they're asking prices uh on these these uh condominium spaces that they've

12:34developed um and i you know i think that at this point they're just doing what we call like white

12:39box

12:39they're just putting in the basic stuff knowing that when you get up to that sort of level people

12:44like to come in with their own you know designers and yeah that together that fits them okay kind of

12:51speaking on the i i do want to move on but this is these uh whenever i speak with like

12:55an actual

12:56architect i'm always i'm you know questions pop into my mind and i uh thinking of new york i've seen

13:03videos on that um i can't remember which one it is it's one of the really really tall towers um

13:09that

13:09they put in for for luxury luxury condominiums yeah but it's so tall and so short that the top

13:14story sways oh and uh that that is uh then you know that's an interesting problem because i've faced

13:22that my whole career and when i started we had a a strict limitation on you know the size the

13:29proportional size of it which was called the seven to one ratio um and that was the shortest dimension

13:36of it if you looked at an elevation the ratio of the height to the width the width could not

13:43exceed

13:43seven to one and that that that was totally related to sway you know that basically you know once you

13:50get up higher and higher the governing lateral force on on a building is wind yeah and so as you

13:57get up

13:57higher that the wind becomes much more and and it once you exceed that that proportion that seven to

14:04one ratio um yeah you can use buildings can start to sway in the wind you know not you know

14:12it's not

14:12to the degree that that things are flying around it's not like but it does you know uh induce uh

14:20seasons i guess you know yeah i i hear that i'm just like that's it sounds terrifying because you're so

14:26far up there i but i'm sure you know the engineers and the the math all maths it all we

14:31have we have

14:32all over yeah yeah we have ways to mitigate that are so sophisticated and cool that's why you see

14:37these buildings going even taller and taller far exceeding the slenderness ratio um but you just

14:43have to know how to engineer it and and and there have been advances in materials and and things you

14:49know over the years so that helps as well but you still got to know what you're doing and you

14:54know

14:54at the end of the day if people can't live there you know it's not going to work yeah yeah

15:00it was just

15:00the it was interesting to me um that they allowed that they engineered it to it to an extent to

15:05where

15:05they allowed that much sway because if i were you know these penthouses are like however many millions

15:10of dollars if i if i was buying something that expensive i would want it to be so solid i

15:15i would

15:15not yeah the idea of it swaying is uh um interesting interesting that they that they had that in their

15:21plans um anyways i want to move on let's talk about wilderness resorts and your experience with luxury

15:28um it is you know we have a lot of people on the show uh that do luxury flips that

15:32do airbnbs that

15:34are on the luxury scale um and so it is a definitely an interesting uh um demographic to be going

15:40after

15:40niche within within real estate how do you see you've mentioned that travel is affecting um

15:48uh luxury hospitality um that the the forces that people actually are looking for like you mentioned

15:53people want to be social um is affecting everything so what do you see as like the um the type

16:01of

16:02property that succeed the most when it comes to luxury um hospitality or just luxury itself

16:07well first there's size um the you know most of the the high performing luxury hotels have probably

16:17less than 30 rooms i mean some it's that order of magnitude interesting again because this is

16:26you're really talking about a sort of ultra high network you know uh market um it's it's uh it's kind

16:33of even sort of beyond the sort of aspirational market which which tends to happen in larger hotels

16:39yeah you know um so so that's number one is and then the the second part about that is that

16:47when

16:47you get to that level people are asking for very specific things you know they're they're they want

16:53to you know get away from the electronic universe or um they want to they they're focused on their own

17:02health in a way and you know they want that reset that regenerative kind of reset so obviously that's a

17:09big factor in it but you also want to be able to designing the resorts almost to be um to

17:15lack

17:16to lack digital essentially like i'm do you are you putting tvs in rooms or you know you know i

17:21mean

17:21i i don't think we were one of in other words we're we're designed to be adapted to whatever

17:28the specific guest requires but highly tuned to their needs so that's that's kind of where we're going

17:35in general you start with the guests themselves and you basically you know develop profiles you

17:42know of the types of desk guests that you want and then obviously now especially with ai you know you

17:49can you can learn a lot about people what they want what they and then every visit that gets you

17:54know

17:55changed uh you know and and so it's highly calibrated highly personalized um at the same time you know

18:02it's also geared towards a sort of social experience and in this case it's wilderness so you know first

18:08of all we have to make sure it's safe you know people feel safe there it's not this is not

18:12glamping

18:13this this is a luxury hotel on the edge but you know it's set in a in uh so you

18:20understand the power

18:21of nature when it's beautiful you can go outside and um you connect to these different activities when it's

18:28not so great you can hunker down you know and it's that's powerful too as well you know so that

18:33that

18:34feeling of being on the edge but still you know with your uh in proximity to your friends and family

18:41is this type of um when i think of like a wilderness resort i think of those those like tiktoks

18:49and youtube

18:49videos out there of like the pods that are on the side of the mountains and in the in patagonia

18:54or

18:54like up you know the the ice castles up in alaska those kind of things um but i'm sure you

19:02guys are

19:02designing more you know it's a still structure it's still like a hotel it's just out in the wilderness

19:07near things like hiking skiing etc yeah yeah whatever yeah and it's just so first of all we're designing

19:14this so it could be put in almost any environment so there's a the and the difference is we're actually

19:21kind of going back in a way to a very an older idea that this is something i experienced when

19:26i was

19:27younger uh which was uh you know going up into the mountains in this case it was in south america

19:33um and there's a fantastic um in chile there's a fantastic resort called portillo um and and and the

19:42hotel was built kind of like an old swiss hotel uh you know which are is smaller in these extreme

19:49environments but you know that the the thing that was great about it i remember as a kid you know

19:54was that um and i was very very young so it was impressionable left left the lasting impression was

20:00how many people were there from all over the world and how that they sort of connected you know because

20:06because again being in extreme area you know doing something that you know out of ordinary having

20:13people collect from all over the world who were sort of aficionados of this was quite interesting you

20:18know that that so that it becomes a kind of filter if you will for like-minded people you know

20:26to to

20:26congregate um and then depending on where we're where we're located we'll offer different types of

20:33amenities you know to go with that but that the fundamental thing is it's actually the total opposite

20:40of the normal um the the standard kind of eco resort where they have like pods as you're talking

20:48about or a little little houses all start about the landscape i mean if you if you've gone to one

20:54of those things and you're at the end of the line uh so to speak you know along that string

20:59of pearls of

21:00little pods um and you need a hot towel and you have to wait 20 minutes to get it you

21:06know you're not

21:06coming it's no longer luxury so yeah so the the service is the foundation of luxury um it's actually the

21:14foundation of hospitality and if you can't figure that one out you know you're you're not going to

21:19do it so it it's it's a it's an interesting model we have you know because we're we're trying to

21:24be

21:24you know both private and offer that privacy you know especially for very very high-end vip guests

21:32and then at the same time create a kind of gathering you know social atmosphere um and and then on

21:39top of

21:39it all do something that we can build it almost anywhere in the world you know on the coast or

21:45the mountains or desert you know what have you so that's that's the that's the general idea behind

21:52it and that's what we're in the process of building a prototype right now or you know designing the

21:57prototype to be built uh so that's that's what's exciting oh yeah engineering is really cool

22:03it's very cool yeah i i like the idea um i so obviously luxury um hospitality it has to be

22:11i'm assuming this isn't when you say wilderness it's not like in the middle of nowhere um it still

22:17is probably within the proximity of some kind of metro where people can fly in get to it within

22:22two hours i mean you know so this is you know how far we can go is away from uh

22:30uh transportation hub

22:31uh you know and even a regional airport i think is going to be limited to you know what what

22:38transportation is available to go from that regional airport to the resort um and uh so but but what

22:46there's a lot of exciting stuff going on especially in the ev to tol range you know um so that

22:54that could

22:55start to expand what that that limit is but you know for right now it's pretty much you know

23:00helicopters and uh atvs or whatever you know so there's gonna have there's essentially um and

23:10then also we again we don't want to be too far away from uh we'll have on board it's think

23:16of it kind

23:16of almost like a land yacht you know so we have all of that that that type of service on

23:23board in effect

23:24to handle just about anything and then of course you know we'll be connected um by heliport you know

23:31to hospitals and things like that right so where uh um like where are you guys building where are you

23:37guys trying to put one of these is it uh rockies is it you know middle montana well you know

23:42right now

23:42we're the we're going to try to do maybe three at once and only because the um the main building

23:51is

23:52essentially built out of modular components and if we can locate uh you know a site where we're

23:58building enough modular components that we can start to look at economies of scale you know in terms of

24:05how we put that together so we're think of it in a way it's somewhere between architecture and a product

24:11you know um so it's a essentially a shell that then can be you know has the ability to look

24:20a little

24:20bit different depending on its location um but essentially the components are the same so oh

24:27interesting yeah okay and but you guys do you have a specific area that you that you're ready to break

24:32ground on yeah i'd say right now we're kind of are we the most of the land that we're looking

24:38at is

24:38ranch land is we're talking about 2 000 acres you know it's kind of almost a minimum you want you

24:44want

24:45that because you want to be able to locate this as centrally as possible so it's got the least

24:50impact on the environment it's a very we'd like to say conservation first strategy that we've employed

24:58and um so uh but so 2 000 acres that that kind of limits you in terms of where you're

25:05looking

25:05obviously you're going to be looking um not you know anywhere near seattle new york it's going to be

25:10no no i would i would say that you know most of it's we're talking about uh new mexico northern

25:17arizona utah um idaho wyoming maybe montana but you know so it's kind of that possibly colorado you

25:27know it depends it really it's so many factors involved in it i mean what the other problem the

25:33other issue is you know when once you get out you know into the edge you are having to look

25:39for

25:40water and you know you've got to look for you know you got to do all that kind of stuff

25:45so

25:45um there's a lot of tech involved in this which we're also excited about you know that we really

25:52want to get this you know as far out as possible um and you know so that so that not

25:59only are these

26:00amazing places to go but they're also kind of living laboratories for new uh technologies

26:05specifically green tech but also you know prop tech and you know any variety of things that are

26:12both operational and also you know uh solving uh problems in terms of uh resources uh and and how

26:22to optimize those resources for this type of um uh project cool man yeah i mean it sounds really

26:29exciting it sounds like something i'm sure you guys are going to have great success are you taking

26:33on investors or is this something that you've already um i have right now my investment is very

26:38limited um to uh you know people i know well uh and uh that that doesn't mean at some point

26:45we will

26:46we we will but more importantly that what i'm interested in doing right now is talking to the

26:52kinds of people who find this like proposition kind of cool interesting and just getting their perspective

26:58and you know i i i i i the pro the the the usually what happens with people when they

27:05meet someone

27:05like me and they are wow you know you're you're kind of designing this this thing uh because that's

27:11that's that's what you have an obsession about designing things and but but people who don't know me

27:18um make that mistake that that i come from that perspective i've always been a kind of humanist first so

27:23i

27:24always start with understanding who wants to do this you know if nobody wants to do it then there's

27:30no reason to build it but if other people are you know want to do this and seems like something

27:35they

27:35are they're excited about um not not for investing just to go you know um then i'm interested in yeah

27:43but well i think if you guys market it to um you know higher net worth families i i i

27:49can think of

27:49tons of people that would want to take their family out to a wilderness retreat to just be out there

27:55with their kids if there's you know you've mentioned atvs if you can take those around if you can go

28:00down

28:00a river whatever just get them away get them out there into something that still has a nice touch

28:05that's still in the luxury spectrum it's still nice but you're not you're not in a city you're not

28:10anywhere near that you're out in nature experiencing it yeah i totally see the demand there for sure

28:16and understand that most of these are branches right that we convert you know for this purpose

28:22some of them might even still be working branches you know depending on you know where where this is

28:27located so it's not you know you're you're you're in the wilderness but you're it's not you know

28:35you're the edge of nowhere yeah so i understand yeah no it sounds very exciting i hope you guys have

28:42a lot of a success there um i have taken a peek at the clock we've run the time down

28:48so it's time

28:48to jump into the quick question round you ready go ahead all right starts with books or sorry starts

28:53with education it doesn't have to be a book could be anything could be a conference you've gone to

28:57mentorship program you've been a part of movie you've seen book you've read anything like that

29:00i just need two recommendations um one for general life wisdom and then one for real estate well i'm

29:05going to give you the same recommendation for both because there's a group that uh i'm you know i i

29:11i'm not really i work with them i've gotten a couple of their their uh events uh they're called

29:17thesis driven um they're run by two guys named paul stanton and brad hargreaves uh and you can follow

29:23them on uh linkedin uh this is just spelled thesis driven um and they what they're really good at is

29:31is um uh breaking down complex real estate um issues to to really uh straightforward

29:42um usable information you know and so it's it's look them up i think they're terrific um

29:49and uh so that's that's kind of where i come go back to if i especially if i've got something

29:56i need

29:56to talk to they're a really great source of that and they've got a great uh group and they're growing

30:01fast you know so it's it's a real you know i promise you you won't be disappointed nice i love

30:10it yeah i always like good uh good recommendations especially yeah especially when it comes to real

30:15estate investing um brings us to the next question this is for your younger self let's go back to the

30:20kevin who is just graduating with his architecture degree i don't know how many years ago so many years

30:25ago go back to him look him in the eye give him one piece of advice moving forward uh i

30:31would say

30:32i would say that my first was don't be in such a hurry you know that was i i was

30:38really kind of

30:39charging hard and you know i didn't what i i wish and and some of it would be it uh

30:47if i had kind of

30:48slowed down a little bit and sort of took in a little bit more information that i now know was

30:54is

30:55valuable but at the time i was kind of so busy you know kind of moving forward it was like

30:59next

31:00next next you know um and that's a that's that's tough to do you know when you're young you that's

31:06how you you feel like you gotta you know conquer everything but you know the the problem is is that

31:12if you if you don't take the time to really assess what's going on and and uh try to learn

31:20from some

31:20of the things that you know may have been pleasant or unpleasant you know it's just it's a roller

31:25coaster you know that it's a it's not for the faint of heart real estate you know it's what my

31:31what i tell people all the time is that um you know if you can't if you if you're looking

31:37at

31:37something in terms of real estate and you can't imagine yourself living there or working there or

31:42you know it being healed by it on some level then you know don't do it it's it's it's there

31:49are other

31:49ways to make money that are less um you know that take a lot less out of your time and

31:58energy and

31:59uh but i have to say there is something very rewarding about seeing something being built and

32:06knowing that you had made a difference uh in people's lives yeah yeah absolutely i mean we say

32:13we repeat that on the show so many so often um if you're in real estate you're gonna get kicked

32:19in

32:19the face it's gonna happen it happens all the time um it's not a passive i i hate it when

32:25people say

32:25real estate's passive because it is absolutely not a passive investment but like you said it's rewarding

32:30you get to see it's physical which is something i love about it i before i got into real estate

32:35i was

32:35doing like e-commerce companies digital marketing that kind of stuff and it's not it's not real it's

32:40like i mean it is real but it's not physical right and real estate is physical so you get to

32:44see that

32:45end product and you get to be proud of it um if you believe in it so yeah i love

32:49that uh interesting

32:50you said don't be in such a hurry i feel like most guests that come on the show they say

32:54you know i wish

32:54i got started sooner i wish i went harder or something like that i like the perspective of don't be

32:59in

32:59such a hurry because like you said if you're in a hurry you are going to miss things you're not

33:03going to be

33:04able to absorb the experience absorb the knowledge um yeah that's good advice yeah moves us to the next

33:11question this is about the u.s it's a big place there is a lot of opportunity out there give

33:15me

33:16the single metro you're most excited about investing in today when it comes to your new product oh wow that

33:23well i think i kind of gave you the general area you know of doing that it doesn't you know

33:30it's

33:31interesting uh in a weird way you know the the we're trying to sort of break the the mantra that

33:40a real estate is local uh and you know we're sort of because we're kind of treating it in a

33:46much more

33:47of a product way you know even if it's on a large scale uh so i but to some degree

33:54you always have to

33:55keep in mind you know what are the local constraints and and respond to them you have to be able

34:01to

34:01to to understand that and if you don't you know you don't do your homework and you know it's going

34:08to

34:08be tough you're going to get kicked in the face you're going to get kicked in the face and talk

34:13to

34:14people i mean that's that's the main thing is that um you know it first of all you'll learn

34:21something if you learn how to listen carefully everybody has something that's going to be valuable

34:27to you down the road and also it's it's uh i'm i've learned over the years that if you ask

34:34somebody

34:34for their help you know a lot of people say i don't want to bother so-and-so because you

34:39know

34:39you know most people are flattered when you ask for their help right you know just don't be afraid

34:45to do it you'd be surprised you know if they can if they can't do it they'll say i don't

34:50have the

34:50time i'm sorry you know whatever but you know if they can you know they'll do it no they'll

34:55they'll they'll help you in ways that you you couldn't even imagine you know so um i think that's

35:02it you know just keep talking to people you know don't be afraid to show them something that you may

35:08not have 100 confidence in but you know it's it's how you learn yeah and real estate is all about

35:16relationships and it's surprising how um you know asking people for help actually helps build the

35:21relationships it's kind of counterintuitive but it does help to build it so good advice

35:25moving us on to the next one this is about finding deals it all starts with getting in contact with

35:30the seller and pen in that purchase agreement um this is uh kind of kind of related to what you

35:35guys are doing so i'm going to ask it anyways what is your favorite way to generate leads and find

35:39any deals i'm talking to them you know i mean it's just you know if if you present something

35:49and you go well i you know this is a crazy idea but what do you think um and uh

35:54what i found is

35:55usually not only will that be a useful conversation but they'll know like 500 people i should talk to

36:02you know and they'll and they'll do the introduction you know so uh you know cold calling in in what

36:09i do

36:09this it's not really it's not really it doesn't really work um because we're not we're not trying

36:18to go you know uh looking for a mass audience yeah um it's really and then also you know the

36:25kind of

36:26people that that would be interested in something like this aren't the kind of people who are going

36:32to you know return your cold call yeah so it's not yeah there's a that's a lot of wasted energy

36:39there's a strategy for everything yeah but i do think that uh it does help to be engaged you know

36:47uh in social media for example and it's nothing wrong with sort of getting your identity out there

36:53doing podcasts you know i think are terrific i mean because to me this is a great format just to

37:00get a different perspective on you know what you're trying to do so you know meeting you and

37:04and having that kind of conversation is terrific i mean so yeah that's that's the other thing is just

37:11get out there yeah it also i'm a huge fan i always suggest people get on podcasts um because it's

37:16not

37:17people think that you need to be some kind of like you know crazy celebrity to be on a podcast

37:21but

37:22literally for our podcast we're looking just for active investors to talk with to talk about their

37:26deals you don't have to be you know grant cardone or something crazy you just have to be an active

37:31investor um that has done deals and so you it's great it's uh it builds your relationships and it

37:37gives you a sense of authority when you're um talking with sellers talking with other people out there in

37:42the industry having been represented by a podcast so yeah definitely if you guys are out there and you

37:46want to start building your brand want to start building your authority get on a podcast it's also a lot

37:51of

37:51fun um with that i'm going to move us on to the next question we talked about getting kicked in

37:56the

37:56face a few times and uh that is our lessons learned question so not every deal we get into goes

38:02the way

38:02we expect it in fact pretty much every time something goes wrong and that's when we get to learn a

38:08lesson

38:08so what was a deal that went a little bit sideways for you and then what was the lesson you

38:12pulled from

38:12it well i mean the the american express building went sideways in a big way you know we went bust

38:19in the

38:20middle of the project and yeah because you know this was it was hadn't been completed yet uh when the

38:28really the the stuff hit the fan after wingman uh so uh so it was a casualty of that but

38:37you know

38:37because it was a syndicated deal a number of the investors of the who stayed in that deal made out

38:45like bandits you know 10 years later like the all of those it's it's you know the last i mean

38:51for

38:51example the penthouse i designed for that it was all glass 5 000 square foot you know penthouse in

38:57new york is a big that's a big size stuff and we also had about 5 000 square feet of

39:03outdoor

39:03terrace area so the wheeling that's an incredible sort of thing but we built that for 5 million uh and

39:115 years ago now it sold for uh 30 million today it would be crazy i would i'm gonna guess

39:21it'd be

39:22certainly north of 40 maybe 45 million uh that's insane see that's a return right there you put in

39:27five so that's you know that's an insane return right you know so um uh so but still you know

39:37what

39:37that's a kind of you had to go through a total crash you know a shaky market you know on

39:44the way

39:44up nobody really knew what was going to happen nobody and um you know and then they they sold

39:50it right at the top of covid so yeah yeah and uh so i guess what would the lesson be

39:57that you pulled

39:57from that um is it to well i'm gonna let you say it i don't want to put words in

40:01your mouth

40:02well i mean you know i think that the lesson you know obviously you know everybody who was

40:08involved that deal was like oh god you know what did i why did i cash out or whatever you

40:13know which

40:13is what i did um uh you know that that if you don't have to do it if you if

40:21it is just understand

40:24the fundamentals of real estate are that over time it i was gonna say time heals all real estate

40:31yeah you can hold on so you know and and and especially if you are investing in an area like

40:37new york is built on real estate so new york would have to sink in the ocean you know completely

40:43uh which

40:44you know it's possible hopefully we can mitigate enough of that so that's a distant sort of thing

40:51or hopefully ideally solve some of our climate issues but um the uh but but just understand that if you

41:01can you know wait it out yeah do it you know yeah i feel like that is eventually course correct

41:08even though that is right to me nothing and i think hopefully not again our lifetimes nothing

41:14quite hit a real estate like the the financial business because it was basically because of real

41:22estate or at least you know how we packaged mortgage-backed securities yeah i've i've heard people say that

41:28something like that is going to come up um here soon but i just don't i i don't see that

41:33but

41:33anyways uh well i think the danger is the fact that you know there's more of real estate is being

41:41financed through alternative banking you know i think that that maybe is is part of it um uh you know

41:51whether you have that that same sort of stability but i don't know you know i mean i uh most

41:58of my

41:59people who are in finance you know at some point you get to a again you know if you're really

42:04at the

42:05top it doesn't seem like it even if it were to stop tomorrow you would you know that money is

42:11not

42:11going to go anywhere yeah you know especially if it's invested in real estate the value might drop

42:16temporarily but ultimately you know you know what's going to happen and then um and and and since

42:23most of the people that i am talking to are somehow involved in family offices or multi-generational

42:31family offices it's a different it's a different equation you know like how how you how you look at

42:38alternative investments like real estate and you know how do you position that in your portfolio

42:43uh is different but yeah um yeah people say that real estate is uh or people i've spoken with have

42:50said real estate is um you know over inflated in certain areas especially in areas like seattle but

42:55i see you know ai is is going to be in there's going to be so much productivity boom that

43:01comes from ai

43:02that um i feel like generally that's just not going to happen like we're not going to see a crash

43:06um

43:07it well i don't know famous last words we'll see what happens but yeah i mean you know i it's

43:12it's

43:13unfortunately you know we're still tied together you know at a kind of macro level you know to the

43:18forces that we probably can't really control um but you know i i will say this one thing about

43:24real estate which interesting is that a lot of people don't you know they shy away from real estate

43:29because oh it takes so long and you know so but on the other hand sometimes you know having

43:36projects that you know take a little time to start to yield fruit isn't such a bad play

43:43um you know because you're essentially sort of parking you know your your assets um for

43:49you know a longer yield um and you know longer horizon and you know that that that has its

43:56advantages as well yeah absolutely all right that leads us to the second last question this is about

44:02ai it is new and it's here to stay and i like to hear how people are using it in

44:07their businesses so

44:07you're an architect you're a developer i'm curious to see your response how are you using ai today

44:14uh i use it a lot i mean so i do it i use it from everything from you know

44:21testing the different

44:23pro formas and mixes and uh you know so i've got elaborate spreadsheets that it does a really

44:29very very pretty good job um lately i've been using claude co-work a lot um which uh which i

44:38have to say

44:39is a real game changer uh in many many respects i i still need to get on that i've been

44:45wanting to

44:46so i i use claude all the time but i have not used claude co-work and i've wanted to

44:49oh yeah i need to

44:51get on that it's pretty good i mean you have to you have to direct it to a folder that

44:56then it'll scrub

44:58but if your folder is is especially if you're dealing with a lot of data um uh and of course

45:06you know

45:06someone who's been around as long as i have i've collected a lot of data um and and it's in

45:12you

45:12know i can't say it's all filed away the right way so it's really you know for for that it's

45:18fantastic

45:19um and it's only going to get better and better and better um and so you know there are two

45:24things

45:25that i've i've also focused on my career now is that one is i'm a huge believer in finding talent

45:33anywhere in the world you know so i work with people all over the globe at any given time

45:39and and and i pulled people together for project basis you know there's anything you can do to

45:46reduce your overhead as an owner i think is is very very good that's the same for architecture as it

45:52is

45:53for uh real estate yeah so um you know the town is out the amount of takes a little while

45:59to recognize

45:59it but you know the amount of money i've saved um just on legal doc review when it comes to

46:05ai is is

46:06crazy it's uh sorry for all you lawyers out there but ai does a great job with doc review

46:12anyways um that does lead us to the very last question this is for the listeners you've given

46:17us a lot to think about i'm sure people want to reach out get in contact with you this is

46:21a two-parter

46:22where can they find you and what can they expect when they reach out well first you can google me

46:27there's there's not many kevin kennons in the world so you know if you um but you can also uh

46:33i

46:33generally it can people reach me through linkedin um uh is a place to go uh and and again just

46:42because

46:42i wear many different hats that'll lead you somewhere uh to me uh usually does um and you know and

46:50that's

46:50i mean as there's uh you know my phone numbers there you know my dms you know whatever you know

46:57i'm i'm pretty available uh you know for people who want to need you know they've got a problem in

47:04particular you know they they want solved and um i do a lot of that um but uh you know

47:10also if people

47:11hear this podcast and they're kind of excited and want to learn more about what i'm doing i'm happy to

47:16you know to talk to them you know because i like i said i i'm more interested in people's experience

47:21than i am you know my own highfalutin architectural design ideas

47:28awesome well i will put uh those links in the show notes so if you guys want to reach out

47:32to kevin

47:32all you got to do is click the little more in the description it'll pull down that full description

47:37and in there you can find his links thanks thanks man all right man yeah that wraps it up thank

47:43you

47:43very much for having on the show good thanks it was a pleasure i thoroughly enjoyed it you're a good

47:48host for everybody who's with us today thank you guys for showing up you are the reason we do this

47:54so if you guys have any questions reach out to me gabe the real estate investing club.com if you

47:59guys

47:59want to support the show just leave us a comment review anything like that other than that i hope you

48:03guys have a great week keep rocking real estate and i look forward to seeing you on the next episode

48:09yeah great thanks

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