- 1 week ago
SOIL Institute of Management brings you a Career Talk with Arun Dekkala, Director of Product Management at Cisco.
In this session, Arun shares insights from his journey across organizations like Cisco and PayPal, and discusses how young professionals can build meaningful careers in product management and technology.
This conversation offers a practical understanding of how product leaders think, how global technology companies approach innovation, and what it takes to grow into leadership roles in an AI-driven world.
What you will learn in this session:
• How to build a career in Product Management
• What product managers actually do
• How global tech companies think about product strategy
• Skills and mindset required to grow in product roles
• Real-world insights from working in companies like Cisco and PayPal
About the Speaker:
Arun Dekkala is the Director of Product Management at Cisco, with over a decade of experience in building and leading products across global technology organizations.
About SOIL Institute of Management:
SOIL Institute of Management is a leading business school focused on developing leaders with a strong foundation in innovation, design thinking, and human values.
In this session, Arun shares insights from his journey across organizations like Cisco and PayPal, and discusses how young professionals can build meaningful careers in product management and technology.
This conversation offers a practical understanding of how product leaders think, how global technology companies approach innovation, and what it takes to grow into leadership roles in an AI-driven world.
What you will learn in this session:
• How to build a career in Product Management
• What product managers actually do
• How global tech companies think about product strategy
• Skills and mindset required to grow in product roles
• Real-world insights from working in companies like Cisco and PayPal
About the Speaker:
Arun Dekkala is the Director of Product Management at Cisco, with over a decade of experience in building and leading products across global technology organizations.
About SOIL Institute of Management:
SOIL Institute of Management is a leading business school focused on developing leaders with a strong foundation in innovation, design thinking, and human values.
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LearningTranscript
00:05Today we are delighted to have with us Mr. Arun Dekella, who is the Director of Product
00:11Management at Cisco. He has over a decade of experience in product management and he has
00:16worked with organizations like PayPal and Cisco in the intersection of AI and customer experience.
00:23So today he'll be guiding us through his journey and what are the key skills that people who are
00:28aspiring for product management should entail. So Mr. Arun, let's start with your journey. You
00:35started with engineering and then later transition into product. So what was the motivation behind
00:42that like? Yeah, so I'll get started with a brief intro. So I'm Arun Dekella. I've been currently
00:50working as Director of Product Management at Cisco, where I work across customer experience,
00:56developer ecosystems and platform innovation. My journey started not just like a progression
01:05or a transition, it's an eventual progression from product analyst to product leadership roles.
01:12Today I'll be sharing my perspective on that journey. To come to your question again on what
01:20exactly that journey looks like. So I started as a product analyst role, which gave me a strong exposure
01:27towards understanding problem, analyzing requirements. Also, I didn't define the gaps in that process.
01:35It also laid a strong foundation in structured thinking, problem solving, and also a bit of understanding
01:45of why we need to solve so-and-so problem. So my responsibilities over time expanded from analysis
01:55into ownership. So I moved from supporting decisions to making product decisions, which is all that
02:04progression that happened. So wherever the analysis took place in my early days of my career,
02:11it's now into defining three, four years of overall strategy for the bigger portfolio. That's what I'm
02:18currently doing it. And that's how the progression happened. It's actually an eventual and like a progression
02:26that one would make like a curve that we need to look at overall product management journey.
02:35Yeah. That's how I put it, the progression aspect. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense that eventual curve
02:42that we all, you know, experience as we move on and progress in our careers. So actually product
02:49management is one of the most talked about roles and professions in today's time. So what do you think
02:55are the key skills that a student who wants to now aspire to go into that role? What are the
03:02skills a person
03:03should actually have in them or build in them? Yeah, that's a very interesting question.
03:12So yeah, so I'll bring up a perspective from my journey and we'll see how that helps to the audience.
03:21So what I would think is more like structured problem solving is the first and most important problem
03:28skill in the product management. So I learned to take something ambiguous and turn it into clearly
03:38defined problem. So till today, even though the role progressed and the industry have been
03:48turned little different with the advent of AI, that's one skill is the most important skill. It's
03:53what I consider. And the second one would be analytical thinking. So the understanding
04:01requirements, pain points, what the gaps are is the second most important thing. And then comes the
04:08next two, which is also as critical as the other two, which is stakeholder management. So at any level
04:17or any role that you do in the software industry or like in any other company, stakeholder collaboration
04:25is the backbone to do anything that makes sense to the business. And because product management doesn't
04:37only talk about ideas, it needs to do execution as well. So that's the third most important skill, I would
04:46say.
04:46And the fourth one, as I speak, it's not about a skill, I would think it more like a habit.
04:55So to be more relevant
04:57and important in the overall product management development area, always have the habit of observing products,
05:07how things are working around you. And how it is important for you to think what is that it is,
05:17its purpose is for, right? So that habit is one of the skill that I acquired all these years and
05:23still
05:24helping me a lot to do things a little bit of what I used to do the previous day. So
05:31that's keep on improving.
05:34Yeah, that's that four skills is what I think the core skills that I still continue to progress.
05:42Okay, I think they'll be really valuable for all of us, because I think a lot of people who want
05:48to,
05:48you know, move into product roles, at least at the later stages of their career. So I think that
05:53would be really helpful. Also, you're currently driving AI innovation and customer experience at Cisco.
06:00So how do you think the advent of AI already just mentioned, but could you just touch upon a few
06:05more
06:05points on how AI, you know, is changing the way products are built or how will it change product
06:11management in the coming few years? So the advent of AI is at the current stage, it's no more
06:21impacting one role or the other, or one business or the other, like, it is going to impact and
06:30create an effect in every of the other business out there. So coming to what and how it is impacting
06:39Cisco and the areas that I've been working on. So in enterprise collaboration and customer experience,
06:45it's book, it's basically about how businesses bring collaboration with other business employees,
06:52customers, etc. So AI is making it much more hyper personalized with the
06:59help of bringing a lot of data and synthesized analysis out there, readily available for to take
07:07actions. So that action can be sending a product to outbound communication, making a customer call
07:15outbound call that has to be made, or sending a proactive email with all the information that is
07:23required for the customer. So that is how businesses look forward in employee or
07:29customer experience. Whereas for specific to the roles, if at all we look at, I would not say that
07:35it's only for product management role anymore, or any other role. I think it the role definitions
07:42will start blurring. Like as we talk as we speak. So today in the morning, I have seen some role,
07:53which says senior AI UX product manager. What does that mean? Like there is already a clear job titles
08:02coming up like UX designer and product managers are actually like overlapping. So do you need a UX
08:09designer to actually put a mockup and do what that needs to be there? Or you actually need one person
08:16who
08:16can actually define what the user experience would be and also define what problems the product should
08:22solve for. And eventually, I am not surprised in very few months, I'm not even saying years,
08:30it will be like some role comes up says that AI UX product architect engineering manager,
08:40like I think that day is not so far. So that's what AI will put everyone else in thinking.
08:49So we should expand our thought process thinking and execution style. What is AI bringing to us?
08:57So that's how I look at it.
09:02I think we are also a lot of us are definitely now trying to learn analytics and how
09:09analytics and AI are also integrating, especially with the current the artificial intelligence affairs
09:16that we had in Delhi. We also tried to explore that. So one more question regarding the field that
09:24you're in, if someone realistically wants to go into product management, then what are some key
09:30endeavors at a student level or as a young professional that a person can take so that
09:36they can slowly transition into a product role?
09:40Okay, so is it more like the period progression in product management?
09:46No, it's like what experiences they can have in life in terms of their career,
09:51what kind of projects they can entail themselves into to build their skills in a certain way?
09:57Okay, so I would say and like, again, starting from scratch of how students are the aspirants and who
10:09wants to become product management actually think, maybe whoever is outside of product management,
10:16it has an impression that product managers are the ones who actually talk or think about ideas,
10:24it's a creative role, right? But being in product management almost like 14 to 13 years now,
10:34I would think ideas is definitely important. Creativity is also definitely important. But product
10:42management actually bridges the gap between idea and outcome. So it's not about I have an idea,
10:50but it's all about how to get that idea, like shaped up and take to the market. So when someone
10:59is looking for
11:00stepping into product management role, and you are preparing for interviews, or even getting to do some
11:07courses online, look for the things that actually their execution matters. So you can think of like,
11:16which ideas is worth pursuing for so and so user, and the what constraints with what trade-offs
11:25is what much more important than the idea. And then it comes the harder part, which is like,
11:32execution heavy. So as I'm, again, saying creativity is important, but the disciplined execution,
11:38what turns possibility is much more important. So I would say like great PMs, even in my team,
11:46it's not just imaginative. Great PMs should actually be more pragmatic, rigorous, and strong at making choices.
11:57So that's where the judgment is required. So if someone senior asked you, telling that,
12:04why should we put this feature? It should not be an answer coming and saying that the UI looks bad,
12:11right? Or I need to move this button to X to Y, so that the user can actually find the
12:17button more
12:17intuitive. So don't think that as a product management. It's very minor part of product
12:25management, very user experience aspect of it. But first of all, think it like, why, why do we need
12:32a button there? Or else why, why does that screen even require, right? Think of it one step before
12:39thinking about what is the problem that this button is all about. I'm just taking an example of that
12:45button, but it can be anything like a feature, uh, or a report or anything that you think about,
12:51uh, bringing up to the product. And that's for anyone who is stepping into, or like wanted to
12:58step into product management. I think the clear thing one should practice is identifying the balance
13:05between creativity and execution. And that's, that makes you so powerful. And, um, something like AI
13:16is not very good at, at this stage because it keeps on throwing you a lot of information,
13:21but at least that is where product manager, like a human product manager will bring the judgment to
13:27the table. Yeah. Uh, one more question since the participants want to know a little bit more
13:35about your journey. If you could also tell like throughout your journey, what are the key
13:39challenges that you have faced? Not just, uh, technically, but also maybe a lot of times
13:45there's organizational politics or how to actually fit into a culture of an organization.
13:51What are some things that you have to navigate through as you grew in your career?
13:56Uh, it's, it's not just like the
14:01technology aspect of it. It's more like broader people aspect.
14:04Is that the question Isabel? Yeah. Yeah. You can mention any aspect, whatever you faced.
14:09Okay. So I think, um, like every one of us might have faced, uh, some challenge or the other,
14:20when we actually move from one level to another level. And that I have actually faced multiple times.
14:27Like fortunately I've been like in a fast track path all these years, uh, like, because I would not say
14:36it's more like I'm running all through these years, but I'm being more structured in what really matters.
14:43And that's how it helped me to like, maybe do the career progression a little more faster compared to others.
14:52And that's where the challenge that I faced continuously is more like
15:00bring the justification. Why Arun should be able to do this or else why Arun versus why someone else?
15:09I think you, you will need to prove the point at every stage that why this opportunity is to be
15:19given to her or like some X, right? The challenge there is you need to prove to the organization,
15:25your manager, your like, um, skip level, et cetera. Right. So how do you prove that is, is what
15:34the major challenge one will face when we are growing up the ladder. And I have faced it in play
15:43multiple times there. And that actually helped me to sharpen my skillset. I would not say that's
15:51like a challenge. Something is a bad thing or else a challenge that actually impacted me. But I would
15:58say the challenge, which actually helped me to grow and more stronger and sharper because I'll need to be
16:05always on the toes to be able to prove the point that why I'm doing it better and how I
16:12can actually
16:13make this work. So people at the top doesn't actually need people who actually say that this is not
16:21working. We are not be able to do this or we have so and so X challenges to get this
16:28done.
16:29But people at the top, maybe like someone at head of product or chief product officer, like they think
16:37like, I need to have the people who can get things done, right? How, how that execution,
16:44uh, expertise you can actually prove to your leadership. So I turned my challenges into something
16:51which are more meaningful and justification points. And that's how I have overcome my challenges.
17:00Yeah. That was very insightful. I think great motivation for young people like us who are
17:07stepping into their career journeys. Uh, one more thing from your journey, since you started from an
17:13engineering background, do you think a person who is not from an engineering background or a tech
17:19background, uh, may face challenges if they're going into product or what can they do to map those
17:27challenges if they're facing? Um, I would actually frame my progression within prod product rather than
17:36transition from engineering because my, my first role is actually product analyst, like which is closer to
17:43what product management does. However, I think to answer your question better. Uh, I think that question
17:50would be more appropriate maybe like five or four years back where, as I'm calling it out, right? Like now,
18:00now the role boundaries will just be, uh, blurred as much as we can see, right? So the intention and
18:10the right
18:10skill set to get problems solved is what is going to be mattered. And that's how we are actually seeing
18:17all this in the enterprise, the interview styles, uh, how the assessments happen when we are actually
18:24looking for candidates is not more than like how the candidate has been done. Like five years back
18:30did, did the, did the, did the code or not code versus is the candidate able to solve problems and
18:38get
18:38things done? Because previously, like, let's say I'll take from an example where someone is hiring for
18:45an engineering or a programmer. Previously, there used to be assessments to understand whether they can
18:53write the code, like put a syntax and write a Java program or et cetera. But I don't think people
18:59around
18:59now looking at that because everything is being done by AI, right? Like you have Curser, you have
19:04Windsor, you have Codex, right? Why do you worry about like the syntax, whether you put a comma after
19:10so-and-so or else basis after and this, because that's not a problem to be addressed by organizations
19:15when hiring candidates. That's more, uh, for AI and the tools to be solved for. And the candidates that
19:23need to be on the organizations to be able to utilize those tools and bring the value to the table.
19:29Consider that for a programmer or a coder. And the same thing for a product manager. So, previously, it used
19:37to
19:37be like how many product, uh, management years that you have versus what you are bringing to the table now.
19:46Because it's, we are in acceleration mode now in the last two to three years. You're all in an acceleration
19:53mode.
19:54Because you see, 2023, we spoke about prompt engineering. So, there are roles telling about, there are
20:01courses suddenly opened up on Coursera, et cetera, telling that you'll need to be a prompt engineer to
20:06write the right prompt. 2024, the prompt engineering is no more talked. It's about context engineering. Like,
20:13you'll need to understand the context. 2025, it's about agents, orchestration, and other things. Because
20:20you don't need to write a prompt in what AI understands. Now, it's more like you will need to
20:27make agents work together to be able to do, solve the problem for you. So, the, it's not like,
20:35again, coming back to question, it's not like you're moving from one role to another role. How
20:40do you able to tell the story when you're in an interview or else, and you're actually doing that?
20:47But that role, like, let's say product management, what judgment and what skill set you are bringing
20:52to the organization? Because most of the things that used to be done by product managers four years
20:59back is no more product manager role. It's about how you utilize AI and the tool available to do that
21:06work. So, that's how I would, uh, wanted to answer that question. Yeah.
21:14Uh, so there's a question in the Q and A section wherein, um, like, Nd is asking that, uh, they're
21:21just
21:21starting their MBA journey from this year onwards. So, um, what are the skills not necessarily related
21:28to project management, but, uh, as a business professional that they should have so that they
21:34can stand out in the competitive world? Because, uh, we have so many people in, and it's not just in
21:39this Institute, overall in the market right now, job market. So, how can we differentiate ourselves?
21:45What are certain skills, courses, we can both soft skills or hard skills that you would suggest?
21:52Yeah. So, again, I think one core fundamental thing is all about how do you solve the problem? Like
22:01that, that is a core fundamental skill. I would make it applied for any role that you're doing,
22:08right? Are you a problem solver is the first thing. So, how would you solve the problem? Like,
22:14there are different means of solving a problem, write a piece of code, do, do a beautiful
22:20design, graphic design, or generate videos, content, or whatever, like, but the, still the core
22:27principle is problem solving. And the second most critical and important skill, because I'm more,
22:34because the question is more generic across cutting across all the industries and job roles.
22:39The second most important that we do have AI fluency. So it's the most
22:49useful skill that you will be requiring in the next months to years is AI fluency. So there isn't no
22:59chance for every, anyone out there looking for jobs to be not aware of what's happening in AI,
23:07AI, and how to use AI, and how to use AI tooling. In anything, like, be it, be it, like,
23:13even, uh, someone
23:14who is not even into software, uh, world, still need to have AI fluency. I would, like, quote one
23:24key thing, uh, here. So all of us has very, like, different version of how AI will actually, uh,
23:36be coming in the next few years. And one big thing always comes up is AI is going to take
23:42your jobs.
23:43But what I would say is AI is not going to take your jobs, but the person who knows how
23:52to use AI will
23:54take your job. So be it you're entering into product management or you're into business development,
24:00because like, let's talk a secondary example is business development. So business development
24:07also needs a lot of research, competitor, battle cards, how do you pitch in, how do you talk to,
24:13like, when you're closing a date. Imagine a business development, um, manager or also leader
24:19who is having 10 years of experience versus a business junior BD who just joined an org with the
24:27right skill set in AI and problem solving mindset will leverage all the tooling available,
24:35the research that is, uh, to be, uh, done. So that secondary, the junior level business
24:43development executive will do a lot more better with all the data that is available for him,
24:49synthesized, processed, asking the right questions at the right time. And that is only from, uh,
24:56available or like can be done with these two aspects. Like you will need to have the mindset to
25:03solve the problem. The problem here can be closing a deal, uh, getting a new customer onboarded or,
25:10uh, improving the revenue for the business. All of it is again, coming to the business, uh,
25:16development role. And the second one, how do you do that? Like you will need to use AI in this
25:22era
25:23to be able to solve the problem for you. So those are the two skillset, which apply for any role
25:29out
25:30there in the current, um, era, I would say.
25:36Okay. I think, uh, what the two insights that I've like entailed from most of this discussion right
25:44now is that we really need to be fluent and well-versed with AI. And second is we need to
25:49have a
25:50problem solving attitude mindset, no matter which role we are entering into, but specifically for product,
25:57right? Yes. Um, so, uh, like I would assume that you would have taken some interviews or
26:03observed your colleagues who are in product management as well, right? So what are some
26:08things that you notice in them? Like what are certain defining factors apart from, I would say,
26:14problem solving that you can notice while taking interviews. If someone has a, you know, knack for
26:19product management, how can you gauge that? Or what are certain tools that interviewers use so that I
26:24think we can also use them in our, you know, preparation? Yeah, definitely. I think that's a
26:31very useful question for this, uh, audience I believe. And like, I, I'll share my, um, thoughts
26:38and experience how I would actually do. I, I, I look for clarity of thought because I, whatever I say
26:47now,
26:48it's not just for product management, right? Like, because the audience, the, the people who actually
26:54opted for, uh, PGDM course or the MBA here would actually go into roles across different, um,
27:04spectrum, like marketing, product management, et cetera. So I'll talk about few things. I look at more
27:11generic across these things. So first thing is clarity of thought and customer depth. So understand
27:20your customer, who is your customer, be it one user or a hundred million users, understand customer
27:25depth. And the third one is trade of judgment. Like you will need to have a judgment, like what to
27:31be
27:31done, what not to be done. Like that, that's very important. And fourth one is ownership mindset. So you
27:38need to own what you're dealing with. So that ownership mindset is definitely what we look for.
27:46And you can actually think of it. Like I, um, maybe in an interview with a candidate, I will think
27:52of
27:53to give an ambiguous problem and whether the candidate is able to structure that problem.
28:00Well, like that's a definitely key thing I look for. And secondly, like I wanted to understand the user's
28:07perspective with real depth rather than shallow assumptions. So I would think like, I've actually
28:15seen multiple people saying that, um, I think so, or maybe that might happen. Right. So all these are
28:25very shallow assumptions, right? So that's where candidates or anyone from like the college or this
28:34group should abide. So maybe so on, or like even, uh, things on an interview is actually very shallow,
28:42right? Be concrete in word, like what's your perspective with real depth. And other thing I
28:49actually look for is, um, execution, uh, style and execution readiness. If at all on the day one,
28:57given a problem, given a problem to solve for whether the candidate will be able to execute it right then.
29:05And things like understanding risk dependencies, measurable outcomes, it's all comes as part of
29:12the execution style. And the final thing, it's more like, again, capturing across any role
29:18is curiosity and adaptability. So you'll need to be very curious on what you're dealing with.
29:24You'll, you should be, you'll only learn or else dig deeper into things like what to be done.
29:34How should we be doing it? What value we'll be creating is it's all comes with the curiosity aspect.
29:41So you need to be very curious to know the unknowns. And last, uh, like not least one,
29:51it's more adaptability because as we see how things are changing rapidly, adaptability is one thing that
30:01is required for any, uh, person joining the org because strong candidates show not only product
30:12thinking, but also learning with agility. So, because in this fast changing world, that combination
30:20is something very much important. So these overall, uh, whatever I have just spoken about, it's,
30:27it's not just about as a product manager, it cuts across any role that any organizations look for
30:34currently.
30:38Yeah.
30:39One more question that, uh, I got in my mind because currently we are also studying project
30:44management. So I wanted to know if there's any kind of intersection between product management and
30:50project management or whether it's like agile scrum, do these actually come in handy when you're
30:56actually managing products?
30:57So I would say that the two things actually work side by side, not completely overlap in
31:08again, like two types of organizations where organization have like a strong product culture.
31:16These things will not overlap, but automation is not a product driven or maybe a service or, or more
31:24like, uh, even consider the startup, right? So product management pro project management actually,
31:31and even sometimes program management actually mix overlap and all that happens.
31:38But like you consider like more from a product org or a product driven culture.
31:45That's when there is a clear boundaries defined, like think of it like the problem solving aspect and
31:51go to market execution, uh, aspects, which relates to how do you bring an idea to the point, uh, that
32:01needs to go to market. It's all product managers responsibility. Project management is what will be one of the
32:08stakeholders for that entire process to actually be able to track the end-to-end progression,
32:16unblock things wherever that's not progressing, bring the observability, the entire stakeholder,
32:22like what's the velocity, what, what is happening across all the scrum teams there.
32:27So your question related to understanding or even learning about the agile methodologies,
32:34these things I would say for program manager or a project manager role is definitely must,
32:41but for product manager, it's not about the consuming that methodologies or applying that methodologies,
32:48but to work alongside with that methodologies is what I would say, because product manager who is
32:54working with the project manager, if at all, uh, in that org, will need to know what, what does like
33:01agile methodology means? What is scrum or like even Kanban? How does the, uh, execution happens?
33:10That's essential for a product manager to know,
33:14but someone who is actually being early in the career, like let's say, or else out from a business
33:20tool, I would say you should be open to both because majority of companies out there when,
33:28who are hiring for someone in early product areas, you will see job responsibilities that will overlap,
33:35uh, uh, with both. Yeah. As you move up, I think things would start having better boundaries.
33:43Uh, at least between these two goals. Yeah.
33:49Uh, one more question, as you mentioned about how you assess standard dates, uh, you mentioned mostly
33:55about the technical aspect. When you focus on the behavioral aspect, which is also currently
34:00like gaining a lot of importance, how behavioral aspects and psychology, these are assessed, you
34:08know, in interviews, do you like see any of the behavioral mechanisms being used? And again,
34:14what is the kind of qualities you look for in people? Um, I think that's almost the same because I,
34:22I
34:23I personally don't see two different things because few things that I have called out as curiosity,
34:30adaptability, and also to be able to handle multiple stakeholders. It's not functional aspect
34:39because I, I assumed when you're saying technical, it's actually functional, uh, and there is people
34:45aspect to it. So at least when I do assessments and even two interviews, I don't see it different
34:55because at least someone from my team, you can't have a highly person, a functional product manager
35:05who actually can write an excellent PRD, but not have the soft skill to manage people.
35:14So those are, those are, at least I don't see as two different sets of, uh, like competencies.
35:22Those are together is what I would say. Yeah. And there are multiple ways of doing this.
35:28Uh, like the initial rounds, maybe like take an assessment on psychometric test or else things like,
35:36uh, uh, doing the assessment more on the behavioral aspects, but the, but look at from the hiring manager
35:45perspective, because I'm being more of transparent here. Look this from the hiring manager perspective,
35:52someone you are hiring in your team. What does it matter? Like you need things to be done,
35:58not things to be just shown on paper. So these functional and behavioral aspects come together
36:07when someone like a hiring manager actually will interview you or takes the decision.
36:15Uh, uh, one more question, which I had in my mind is that if you was like in our place
36:21and you would be
36:22starting your career today in today's time, then what would you do differently? What would be some
36:27changes or maybe some advice you would give according to how things should be done differently in just
36:34today's day and age? Um, okay. So this is, this requires some thought. So if I start now, right? Uh,
36:48yeah. So, uh, what I would actually maybe thinking is, uh, build something early.
36:57If I, if I actually start now, because like almost like 14 years back,
37:04when I wanted to build something, I don't have all the right tools to build. Like, let's say I have
37:10an
37:10idea and I need to go through the entire cycle of creating. I still remember things like we used to
37:18use balsamic or some other tools to actually, and even I have idea of putting my drawing in on a
37:27bite of
37:27piece of paper and then translating it to someone in the UX team, getting things done.
37:34But if I actually start something now, I can imagine an idea today by the end of the day, I
37:41can
37:42actually get a working prototype ready. So I would think of it like build early, right? You might be
37:50doing it completely wrong, but you have all the tools readily available to justify and see whether your
37:57idea is something which will make money, right? At the end of the day, if, if your idea is not
38:02making
38:02money and not usable, uh, it's, it's not useful. So now what I would start build early, like build
38:12something what you wanted to do instead of wasting time to entirely see whether it will work after
38:18three months or six months. So that is one thing. And I'll not wait for some title to be given
38:28or a
38:29role to be given. If at all, I start now, like maybe I started to be a product analyst, but
38:34I'll, I'll start
38:36thinking like the role I wanted to be. Like if I wanted to be a product manager, even I have
38:42started
38:42as product analyst or even I have started in, because the nowadays we don't have much of a choice to
38:49get
38:49into job, right? Like especially for, I know I have been to the same, uh, struggle every one of you
38:56will
38:57be having now to get a job, right? You will be getting a job, which you might be thinking that's
39:03not my right role, right? But you need to get into that job. That's important. Once you are in this
39:09placement and that job, but think of it, once you join there, but you have your own dream job,
39:19dream role, et cetera, begin acting like that role that you wanted to be. If you wanted to be a
39:25product
39:25manager, think like a product manager, right from the role that you are there. You start thinking like
39:31it, you will achieve that. And that's what I will do if at all I start now. And instead of
39:37waiting for
39:38that role to be given to me, I will start working in that mode because the roles will just be,
39:46as I told,
39:47it will start being blurred as much as possible in next few months to years. Like it will happen as
39:54fast as we, as we can actually see. And current set, right? Uh, there is a lot of model tools
40:04available,
40:04which aren't there previously. So every one of you has a huge advantage. If they recognize this early
40:11and they don't need to wait for months or weeks to get this something built on what you're thinking.
40:17So they can just start creating visible, visible evidence of what they're thinking and execution much
40:24easier now. So that is what I think I will do. If at all, I start my career now.
40:33I think that was very valuable, especially for me, because I will be stepping into my placements
40:37next year is that if I'm aspiring to do something, I should walk towards it and not wait for someone
40:43to give me that opportunity, but wait for them to actually, you know, give me like making myself
40:49more valuable to the market. I think that's what I could understand. Uh, there was one question in
40:55the chat where in like, so I think all of our students, we, because AI has been in the like
41:01market for, I think three, four, four, five years now. So we are all using AI definitely,
41:06whether we use Copilot, we use Proplexity, Claude, Gemini, we all use these AIs. But, uh,
41:12what I've heard is that companies also have specific AI models that they use, which are, um,
41:19you know, the, the exclusive to their company. So, uh, like any kind of training, like, do you
41:26think when we enter into companies, would we be needing to know those kinds of tools as well,
41:31specifically, or is it like these general AI is enough?
41:35I would say like AI fluency means how the overall agent ecosystem works is what you'll need to get to
41:45know, like in, in this current world, because tooling is one part of it, whether a company
41:52uses Claude, Codex, Cursor, Windsor, like whatever tools that they have. But the basic fundamental thing
41:59you'll need to know is that it's an LLM model, which would actually call maybe a small language model
42:07or an MCP tool or an external agent or an API call, right? That's the basic building block when
42:14how agents and AI is currently working. So this LLM is actually can be a note taker in this meeting,
42:22or can be a marketing tool, which you will need to write some content or you think of an automation
42:30journey where you'll need to make API calls to some third party systems. But the basic fundamental
42:36block remains same, uh, is in, in this generative AI world. And that is more important for every one of
42:45us to be aware of it. And all, whatever each of these companies are actually doing, it's more the
42:51application layer. So you think of it like there are a few different things, right? Like there is an
42:58infralayer, right? Which is like where do these AI models, the entire data models sit as an infralayer.
43:06On top of it, you have an AI execution layer, like where this tools come in, like
43:13chat GPT, Claude, et cetera, that will be exposed. And the third layer is the application layer.
43:19That's where the businesses make money, right? Like maybe think of it like currently we are on June. So
43:27a meeting transcription that's happening, the meeting summarizations that happens and all that
43:32intelligence is an application layer where some of the modeling is in the backend that's been
43:37concerned. So that application layer can be keep on changing, but you'll need to be well-versed and
43:44have the fluency of what's the underlying architecture in terms of not the technology
43:50architecture, everyone needs to know, it's not the design architecture, like how each of these
43:55building blocks work. Then you will be able to apply in any of this thing. So that basic building
44:00blocks for your understanding is much more important than learning every other tool out
44:07there in the market, because some of the tools will become obsolete, but the basic building blocks
44:13will still remain as is.
44:17So I think what I could gauge is that because tools are constantly changing, some are becoming redundant.
44:23We should be, I think, very well-versed with the concepts, the basis of what is being formed,
44:30rather than just learning to know every nitty-gritty. We should know what are the foundations of any
44:35tool that we're using, right?
44:38Yes, exactly. Because think of it, right? 2023, like when this lot of boom, like there is one simple chat
44:46GPT thing. And people just focused on how do I write prompts, images, images is not even thing in maybe
44:552020 to 23. But all that is now again packaged as one single application here, right? And think of it
45:04like
45:04this AI hyperscalers can actually eat away the business of lot more applications that are out there in
45:12this. So the B2B business, products, SaaS companies, etc. All of it can actually be done by these
45:21hyperscalers. So the core thing, as you also mentioned, the core concept still remains same, is that
45:30instead of the application layer, the main building block layer or the execution layer is what matters most.
45:40Okay, so I think probably since we're coming to the end of the webinar, I would like to know,
45:46since you mentioned some resources, some skills, what is one habit like an MBA student or a PGDM or a
45:54PGPM
45:54student should have in them that you probably don't see in students, but you feel they should have in
46:00them to make themselves more equipped for the, you know, the market they're getting into, it can be
46:06anything, it can be a soft skill developer or a hard skill developer, any habit that would help them.
46:14Yeah. So what I would think is more think of it like, yeah, when we say habit, right,
46:23there can be habits like reading a book or something. But what I would actually practice
46:29that I would also suggest is studying the products intentionally. So it's not just like observing,
46:39you also study the product intentionally, like be it any product that you're using, right?
46:45Like, let's say, like, we are on a Zoom meeting call now, right? Like, you can actually know what,
46:50how it is actually working. Does it solve the problem, right? You actually might be using your,
46:56maybe a keyboard, right? Like what you're being using. So understand it more intentionally.
47:02What's it designed for? Like, what's the experience that is? So you think in a way that
47:09why this product exists, right, which will actually will be useful for you to connect any of the
47:16pieces that out there. So maybe over time, what that habit will sharpen you is you'll get the product
47:24sense, right? Product sense is something like any PGDM or PGPM student will need to have, which is like,
47:33you'll need to understand why is something built, right? Be it hardware product, software product,
47:40or any product, right? That over time, this habit will help you to have this product sense because
47:47product sense, you can't actually read from books. Product sense is something you'll need to acquire.
47:53So this is one habit, I would say, like study the products intentionally.
47:58And this also will help you to strategically think like in, in, in some kind of discussions
48:04in the, in, in, in group meetings, or even when you actually given a chance to talk about something.
48:11So this helps you to think more strategically and arrive at a decision. If at all you, you are asked
48:19to provide a decision, your decision will have a lot more clarity, right? The examples I have given,
48:25like maybe a mouse pad or even zoom meeting that we have, or like the camera that we have see,
48:31right?
48:32So that will actually improve your decision quality as well. Like why is something need to be decided
48:38in this way versus that? So that is one habit. I think I would, uh, say it, it helps you
48:45everyone
48:46because it's more like generic across the roles that you will be going into, uh, in, uh, once you
48:52complete this course. So, but if I had to like one take care of it, like turn everyday product usage
49:00into deliberate learning. So whatever you are actually using, make that into a deliberate learning.
49:07So that one habit, I think I would suggest. Yeah.
49:12Oh, does anyone have, do you have any questions you can post it in the Q and a section so
49:18that we
49:18can take them up or just to conclude the session, I can see one question, which is what kind of
49:37AI
49:37projects or courses can people, uh, do if especially they have done project management, their work
49:43experience and product for upskilling, are there specific courses or projects they can do to add in
49:50their resume? Um, I don't suggest like one course or the other, I think again, going back to the same
50:00thing, right? Like there are hundreds of courses out there. And if you open like maybe YouTube,
50:05Instagram, LinkedIn, everywhere, any other, like want to be influencer has a course by them.
50:13So it's not again, the course that is important. Like again, think of it, the building blocks,
50:19what is required, like you'll need to understand what's AI infrastructure mean, what's context,
50:25uh, in the AI world means, how are these, uh, because that's, you'll see the same curriculum
50:32across any course out there because most of them will be copy-paste, right? But think of it,
50:37the topics that are important, whatever is accessible to you. Maybe you have some,
50:42um, like subscription with some of the learning module, go for it. You'll find that. So it's not
50:49one course or the other, think of it more like the topics that are important for the understanding
50:54the building blocks of AI. Okay. I think, uh, since I've seen in the Q&A section, I don't think
51:04there are any more questions. Uh, so with that, I think, uh, we'd like to conclude this session. I think
51:11it was a very insightful session wherein we not only understood about product management,
51:16but I would say key technical, of course, technical skills, but also soft skills that we need to have
51:21as we're transitioning into like the job market, how AI is important, uh, be it no matter from what
51:28background you are, whether engineering, uh, or you're from a non-tech background, these are certain
51:33key basic, I would say hygiene skills that you need to have as you stepping into today's, uh,
51:39wall. Thank you so much, Mr. Arun for your time. I think we are really grateful that you could, uh,
51:44give us your insights in time. Uh, thank you so much. Thank you, actually. Like one thing I'll say
51:51and close. I think every one of us has, uh, this, this is the, one of the most exciting times
51:57to build a
51:57career because if the future is not simple, uh, the future is full of possibilities. Like you can do
52:04what you want because the tools opportunities out there and you will need to focus on what to be done.
52:10So that creates and stay relevant is what I would give a sentence. Like be relevant how the industry is
52:19moving and stay relevant as you progress in the career. So that's, uh, a key thing that I would, uh,
52:26uh, like to say it promptly. Yeah. Thank you everyone for, uh, having me here.