Do NOT F#$% with Mysticism! X/Twitter Space

Stefan Molyneux

Philosopher Stefan Molyneux warns his listeners to not f#$% with mysticism in this 15 July 2026 Wednesday Night Live by dismantling a caller’s claims about ghosts, out-of-body experiences and God as nothing more than memory tricks and imagination run wild. He pushes sticking to reality and clear boundaries instead of chasing unreliable supernatural stories that trap people in isolation.  0:00:00 Call-In Night Opens  0:00:52 Troll or Philosophy?  0:03:19 Family, Race, and Upbringing  0:08:38 Life Goals and Relationships  0:12:36 Ghosts and Consciousness  0:22:10 The God Mind Argument  0:28:25 Infinite Regression Debate  0:33:15 Peaceful Parenting Economics  0:42:26 Winter Comes, Prepare Now  0:55:21 Toddler Aggression Explained  1:03:24 Grandma’s Hidden Influence  1:16:42 Status, Respect, and Children   GET FREEDOMAIN MERCH! https://shop.freedomain.com/  SUBSCRIBE TO ME ON X! https://x.com/StefanMolyneux  Follow me on Youtube! https://www.youtube.com/@freedomain1  GET MY NEW BOOK 'PEACEFUL PARENTING', THE INTERACTIVE PEACEFUL PARENTING AI, AND THE FULL AUDIOBOOK! https://peacefulparenting.com/  Join the PREMIUM philosophy community on the web for free!  Subscribers get 12 HOURS on the "Truth About the French Revolution," multiple interactive multi-lingual philosophy AIs trained on thousands of hours of my material - as well as AIs for Real-Time Relationships, Bitcoin, Peaceful Parenting, and Call-In Shows!  You also receive private livestreams, HUNDREDS of exclusive premium shows, early release podcasts, the 22 Part History of Philosophers series and much more!  See you soon! https://freedomain.locals.com/support/promo/FREEDOMAIN2026

Transcript

00:00:00Good evening, good evening. Welcome, welcome, my friends, to, well, I guess the show, I

00:00:06can't say the show that never ends, because technically it will end at some point, hopefully

00:00:09not mid-stream, but it is Wednesday Night Live, and we're going to dive straight into

00:00:17callers. Yum, yum.

00:00:27Yo, what's good, Stefan? How are you?

00:00:29Well, if you would like to unmute, I would like to hear. Can you hear me? Oh, hang on,

00:00:35sorry, this is just a little quiet here. Can you try again? Can you hear me? It's very

00:00:41faint. Try again. There we go. Now we're all set. We're all set. Thank you so much. What's

00:00:49on your mind, my friend? Quite a few different things. My mind's kind of like ping-pong balls.

00:00:56One of the things I was thinking about in terms of philosophy would be, all right, like

00:01:01straight rape cases should be settled in claims court. Okay, so you're a troll who's called in

00:01:07before, right? Like you don't have any particular seriousness when it comes to talking about

00:01:10philosophy, right? I mean, in terms of like how different legal systems... Okay, hang on,

00:01:14hang on. Okay, did you hear what I said? Yeah, but I... Okay, hang on, hang on, hang on.

00:01:22What is it that you would like to achieve from calling in? Because it sounds like you're just

00:01:26coming up with outrageous troll stuff, and I recognize the voice, and I would like to have

00:01:32a conversation about philosophy. I'm sure it would be good for you, as it is good for people as a

00:01:36whole,

00:01:36but please to help me understand what it is you're looking for, other than like just some sort of

00:01:43alienating shock value, I mean, or something like that. Is that the purpose? No, not at all.

00:01:52Is there a degree of shock value I'd like? Yes. Is there alienation that I'm looking for? Not at all.

00:01:57Okay, so help me understand... I'm genuinely curious, right? Help me understand why you want

00:02:03the shock value. I just find it kind of entertaining for the mind, that's why.

00:02:09Okay, so what's your closest relationship?

00:02:15Probably my house cats. Right. Do you find that you are close to people or popular with people

00:02:22in your life? Not at all. Okay. Do you think that... No, let me ask a different question.

00:02:31When you were a kid, how were social skills transferred to you? Because, I mean, it's

00:02:36complicated. Like, you go to Japan, I wouldn't know how to act. I go to Tunisia or Morocco or

00:02:41whatever, I wouldn't know how to act. So when you were a kid, did your parents or parent, did they

00:02:47work with you at all in trying to transfer social skills to you? If anything, I would

00:02:53say my parents kind of hindered it quite a bit. But especially, like, my oldest sibling,

00:02:58yeah, like, they're definitely very detrimental to that overall. I'm sorry to hear that. And

00:03:03I'm like, that's something that you don't see with the blacks. Or it's like, let's say you

00:03:08take your average black guy. Okay, hang on, hang on, hang on. See, you're veering off into

00:03:12shock territory again, right? So let's just have a conversation about you.

00:03:18About myself. Yeah. IRL, um, my dad's Chinese, my mom's, uh, Caucasian or Ashkenazic.

00:03:30Wait, so she's Jewish? Yeah, my mom's Jewish, my dad's Chinese.

00:03:35Okay. And where, in which continent were you raised? Like North America or Europe or someplace

00:03:41else? Yes, U.S. U.S., okay. And how did your parents get along when you were a kid?

00:03:47Um, you know, it's kind of an interesting thing. You know that one meme where, uh, the kid

00:03:54whose parents are divorced, and then you have the kid whose parents should be divorced, but

00:03:58they're not? Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's like, you know, it's like, sometimes I think, I wish my

00:04:03parents were divorced, but they're, like, never divorced. Um, foreigners, they generally

00:04:08don't treat women pretty well. Sorry, who doesn't? Especially from the other hemisphere. Huh?

00:04:13Who doesn't treat women very well? Uh, foreigners from the other hemisphere. Okay. So it's like,

00:04:17my parents, they've been married for over 30 plus years.

00:04:24And did your mother stay home with you, or did she work?

00:04:27Um, at first she did work a bit, like, as a nurse, but then she, you know, it was mostly

00:04:32a stay-at-home parent. I think she got fired a bunch of times.

00:04:36That's interesting. Do you know why she got fired? Um, uh, I think there's a lot of liability

00:04:42in the field. Um, she does have some mental health issues, but, like, it's not that bad.

00:04:49If anything, I kind of think my dad's, like, a bit worse than her, but, uh, he has a pretty

00:04:54stable job. And what are your parents' mental health? I mean, listen, brother, as a guy who

00:04:59grew up with two parents who had severe mental health issues, uh, I'm not saying they're severe

00:05:02in your circumstance, but that's a bowl full of blood chowder right there on the floor.

00:05:08Um, what would you say would be your parents' mental health issues if you had to guess?

00:05:14My dad's autistic. I mean, like, that's kind of expected if, from within Chinese people,

00:05:21that's also why East Asia's birth rates are so low.

00:05:24Hmm. Autistic to what degree?

00:05:30Autistic to what degree?

00:05:32You know, like, some autistic people can't brush their teeth, can't go to the bathroom

00:05:35on their own, and so on. I assume he's higher functioning than that if he's got a job and

00:05:38so on.

00:05:39Yeah, yeah, of course. Um, uh, let's see, to what degree?

00:05:47Kind of like what you would expect within, like, typical Chinese culture.

00:05:52Um, well, hang on. If it's Chinese culture, are you saying that most Chinese people are

00:05:57autistic, or he's representative of that? Typical culture? What do you mean?

00:06:03Yeah, pretty much.

00:06:06Wait, sorry. I gave you two options there. What do you mean that you view Chinese culture

00:06:11as autistic as a whole?

00:06:14Um, so, for instance, Chinese people, it's like, they'll call fat people fat. It's like,

00:06:22they're very, um, in that respect. Besides that, like, lack of manners, they'll pick their

00:06:29nose in public, they'll crap in public. Um, besides that, uh, the words are all the same.

00:06:38It's very repetitive. They use pictographs. Um, it's like, you've looked, it's an interesting

00:06:44thing. I was looking at the Epstein document some time ago, and it was saying that blacks,

00:06:49their nervous systems prioritize motor content.

00:06:51Okay, hang on, hang on, hang on.

00:06:52Whereas Asians and whites.

00:06:53Hang on, hang on, hang on. You're going back into shock territory. I just want to stay

00:06:58on you, if that's all right.

00:07:03So, autistic is not calling, it's not the same as calling fat people fat. That could

00:07:08be blunt. That could be maybe rude or whatever. It's honest, right? Uh, so do you mean that

00:07:13your father doesn't have social filter or any sort of diplomacy in his conversations?

00:07:21I mean, he does. Like, if he's in public, he won't, like, say, uh, racist stuff in English.

00:07:27He might call blacks hawk.

00:07:30But, like, not, like, out loud.

00:07:33Okay.

00:07:33I mean, he doesn't necessarily understand, like, tones of voices very well, so he might

00:07:37be louder than he thinks.

00:07:39Okay.

00:07:40Or more repetitive than he thinks.

00:07:41And what about your mom? What are her, uh, issues? Mentally?

00:07:46Uh, she's, like, schizotypal, I think.

00:07:49Can you explain that?

00:07:51Honestly, my mom seems pretty normal most of the time, and I get that two-thirds of mental

00:07:55health diagnoses are fake, and that without, let's say, a whole bunch of different anti-discrimination

00:08:04laws and, like, mental health institutions, you'd probably have far fewer people being

00:08:09diagnosed and pushed on meds, so.

00:08:12No, I, I certainly think it's overprescribed. It's kind of funny how people are depressed

00:08:17or giving medications that don't work really at all, and the best medication for depression

00:08:22is dancing, by far. But people who are depressed are given medications that strip them of their

00:08:27sex drive and make them fat, and I'm like, if I was fat and my penile apparatus didn't work

00:08:34either, I think I'd be kind of depressed as well, so it seems to be a bit of a circular

00:08:37thing. And what decade of life are you in right now?

00:08:43How's my life?

00:08:44No, no, what decade of life are you in?

00:08:47Um, a second decade. Actually, no, not third decade. I'm, like, 29.

00:08:5229, okay. And what do you want out of life as a whole? Like, you get to your deathbed,

00:08:58you look back, what would you want to see in your life that would make you feel like you lived

00:09:03a good, positive life of some kind of utility to the world?

00:09:11Um, let's see, I have quite a few different business ideas. Um, besides that, I mean, I

00:09:18kind of don't, like, there's certain things I want to say. Well, I'm not sure if I would,

00:09:24if I should say, like, out loud on Twitter.

00:09:27Okay, I'm just talking about your personal, sorry, I mean, let me ask you about your personal

00:09:31life as a whole. Do you want to get married?

00:09:36You know, I kind of thought I did earlier on, but now I think, all right, if I become super

00:09:41rich, I'd want to just rather have a bunch of baby mamas because women, they cold.

00:09:47And do you think that you're a warm person?

00:09:50I think I have, like, way too much of a heart sometimes, to the point where I can get overly

00:09:55attached. And then, um, I can develop, like, the sort of, what you would call it, like, a

00:10:01toxic form of dependency, maybe, in a way, or, like, just, like, too obsessive. But by default,

00:10:09it's like, I don't really have that, you know, it's, I mean, yeah, I would say I definitely

00:10:17do have, like, a heart in that respect. Like, I'm not cold. Like, I mean, people might think

00:10:23that I am because if I hear someone say, I love you, like, I'm very cynical.

00:10:29Well, people can say that, uh, in order to manipulate you, right?

00:10:33Yes, correct.

00:10:35You know, I remember these businesses, like, we treat you like family. I'm like, please,

00:10:38God, no, don't do that. Whatever you do, do not treat me like family.

00:10:43Okay, so, when you say women are cold, do you mean that women that you've dated are

00:10:48cold? I mean, how many relationships or dates have you been on?

00:10:53Um, let's see, the word relationship is kind of vague. I've been on, like, I haven't been

00:10:59on many date dates in, like, since 2017. Um, let's see, I met my first girlfriend at a

00:11:08psych ward. Uh, besides that, uh, let's see, I was with a girl, like, a week or two

00:11:14ago. Um, she, yeah, she mostly didn't even speak English. Uh, my body counts are

00:11:20around 31. Most of the women I run through, they're just hookers. So, every now and

00:11:24then, I get a few hundred.

00:11:27All right, so, were you in the psych ward or just visiting?

00:11:33Was, uh, no, I was, I've been committed quite a few times.

00:11:38And what do you do to get committed?

00:11:41Shit, um, fuck, this one time I tried to, uh, uh, stuff's, like, very personal. Um, oh,

00:11:53yeah, this one time I just tried to avoid my family. Tried to just, like, walk away from

00:11:57home. I mean, what'd I do? I mean, quite a few different things, honestly.

00:12:10I mean, walking away from home doesn't put you in a psych ward. Lots of people do that

00:12:13every day.

00:12:14Yeah, it's kind of strange. It's like, my family, they're pretty toxic. So, it's like,

00:12:18if I try to, like, run away from home, my mom might literally put magic spells on me

00:12:23to, like, bring me back, so.

00:12:26Your mom might put, so, do you believe that those magic spells are real?

00:12:30Um, some might be quite a bit more effective than others. Um, you know, it's kind of interesting.

00:12:37Like, I have seen a ghost when I was six. And yes, my two older siblings also saw this ghost.

00:12:42Like, and, like, they ran faster than me that one time. So, like, I know, like, there are,

00:12:49like, certain supernatural phenomena that's real.

00:12:53Oh, no. No, no, they're not.

00:12:56They are. Is it necessary?

00:12:57No, no, they're not. No.

00:12:58You gotta, you gotta not mess with mysticism, man. It will break your brain.

00:13:03I, I, dude. Like, yeah, I understand being, um, there's a difference between being skeptical

00:13:09and being a critical thinker. Like, because it's like, anyone could just be in denial about

00:13:15whatever, even if there is evidence. Are you saying, are you saying that consciousness exists

00:13:24in a ghost-like non-material form?

00:13:27Of course, yeah. Like, I find that pretty obvious. Like, people have out-of-body experiences.

00:13:33I've had one once.

00:13:37And what was your out-of-body experience?

00:13:39So, I tried to force myself to get up when I felt very tired. I was crawling on the floor.

00:13:44I look into another room. I see my, uh, second-oldest brother helping my mom on a computer.

00:13:52And I'm really tired. I fall asleep on the floor. And I get up, and I'm just like, wait.

00:14:00So, and I realized, wait, I didn't actually crawl off the floor.

00:14:04I was lying in bed the entire time, but I could physically see into, like, this other room.

00:14:12Like, what was going on?

00:14:13Well, you know that the human brain is immensely and intensely capable of creating its own stimuli,

00:14:20right? I mean, every night we have dreams. Every morning we have dreams.

00:14:23Yes, but it's like how accurate is it?

00:14:24Okay, hang on. Hang on. Let me finish my thought, all right?

00:14:27So, we have dreams every night, every morning, where we step into other universes,

00:14:31things that are incredibly vivid. We touch, taste. I've heard beautiful music. I wish I could

00:14:35remember it when I woke up. And so, we have this immense capacity for self-stimulation.

00:14:42We also know that human beings do experience hallucinations and so on. So, that's a possibility,

00:14:49right?

00:14:51I would say not at all. Like, there is a difference between hallucinations and gnosis. So, gnosis,

00:14:58that's when you can tell that, all right, your six senses that they're real, they actually add

00:15:04up to something. So, if I see someone in a vision before I meet them, that would count

00:15:11as gnosis. But if I, well, let's suppose if it's just in my imagination, it doesn't add

00:15:17up to something real, then, I mean, that's just a daydream. But if you physically see something

00:15:22that's not there, then it's a hallucination. If, let's say, other people see it, like,

00:15:28what are the chances you actually have group hallucinations where you see the same thing?

00:15:33Zero.

00:15:34Exactly. But that stuff, like, you do have people that do see supernatural phenomena.

00:15:39That is a real thing.

00:15:40People lie, and I'm not talking about you. You know people lie about this collective stuff

00:15:43all the time.

00:15:44Just because it can happen doesn't mean it does. Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on.

00:15:48People lie about this kind of stuff. I'm not talking about you, because you're talking about

00:15:51other people. So, little kids, if you say, oh, there's a ghost, right, and you run from the room,

00:15:56they'll say, oh, my God, there's a ghost, and then they literally will remember there being a ghost.

00:16:00I mean, this stuff happens, and it's been tested, and it has been recorded. There are tons of studies

00:16:06on it, and I'm trying to rescue you from a subjective universe. Now, whether you'll take the

00:16:14rope that's coming down the well, because right now you're trapped in the belief that delusions are real,

00:16:20that ghosts are real, and all that kind of stuff. You're trapped in all of that.

00:16:27No, because I've definitely had seen a ghost before when I was like six years old, and other

00:16:31people have seen it as well, so.

00:16:35So, you want to believe these things are real, and you want to believe these things are true,

00:16:40because it makes you...

00:16:41It's not about one thing.

00:16:42Okay, I need you to let me finish my thought. Can you do that?

00:16:47Just say yes or no.

00:16:50I'm letting you finish it.

00:16:51Okay. Because, look, it makes you feel special. It makes you feel like, I saw a ghost, and I'm part

00:16:56of this wild, crazy universe that most people don't get or don't understand, but it hurts your brain.

00:17:03It hurts your sense of reality. It hurts your ability to objectively communicate with others.

00:17:07You don't know if you're in a matrix or not. You don't know if you're in a waking dream or

00:17:10not.

00:17:11It is very, very bad for your brain to believe in mysticism. It is wretched for your sense of reality,

00:17:17your trust in the evidence of the senses. It messes with your sense of ambition and achievement.

00:17:22You said you've got all these business ideas, but I assume none of them have actually manifested.

00:17:27You can daydream. You can think that you're achieving things when you're not,

00:17:32and you can look into self-contradictory abstractions as if they're real, and it's bad for your brain.

00:17:40So, go ahead.

00:17:42All right, this is one area where I do not agree with you in terms of ghosts. In fact,

00:17:47I would say the whole atheist afterlife, which is just nothing happens, like, that sounds so

00:17:52much more peaceful than believing in religion. So.

00:17:58Sorry, ghosts can exist independent of religion, can't they?

00:18:03Yes, however, like, all right, I'm not saying, all right, I believe in ghosts because of this,

00:18:09this, or that. I'm saying, all right, this is what you literally see with your own eyes.

00:18:13All right? It's like, you're telling me what I see with my own eyes is, imagine, is like just,

00:18:19I don't know, some sort of interesting narrative I've put together. It's like, no,

00:18:22that's not how it is.

00:18:24You know, you know that memories are not real, right? You know that we invent a lot of things.

00:18:30We invent a lot of things in our minds and stuff that seems very real. If we look back,

00:18:37it wasn't real. I don't know if you've ever gone back to places where you were as a child,

00:18:42but if you go back to places where you were as a child, your memories are not correct.

00:18:47Things are different sizes. They're different areas. They're different lengths. I've absolutely

00:18:52sworn that there was a line in a movie that I've thought about for years, and then I've rewatched

00:18:57the movie for some reason, and the line doesn't show up. So we, I mean, it's not like everything

00:19:01in our memory is completely false, but memory is as much recreation as it is real. And here's the

00:19:06other thing, and this I get a little impatient about, because in the 1970s, when I was growing up,

00:19:12there were all of these beliefs in ghosts and UFOs and astral travel and outer body, blah, blah,

00:19:18blah, blah, blah. And ghosts would have to impinge themselves on the eyes, right? They don't just show up

00:19:25in the mind. So ghosts would have some tangible, real impact on the eyes. And now every single

00:19:33person, well, almost every single person has a 1080p or 4K 60 frame a second camera on them at all

00:19:42times that they can whip up and film. And science have tried, you know, the out, the dead outnumber

00:19:47the living 30 to one. Science has tried to find anything to do with ghosts. The idea that there's

00:19:52consciousness without matter is like saying this gravity without matter. And everyone has got the

00:19:58exact equipment they would need to detect and shown and show ghosts. And they have never been

00:20:03reproduced. It is a fantasy and it's a dangerous fantasy. Look, I obviously can't convince you of

00:20:09that if that's what you want to believe, but I'm telling you, it is a very dangerous fantasy. It will

00:20:13leech your life away to believe in the unreal. And you should try and find a way to feel special

00:20:19in this

00:20:20life without having gone through some made up mystical experiences. That's amazing stuff out

00:20:25here in the world to do. And the other thing too, is that you can't get any rational women

00:20:30if you believe in this supernatural stuff. You just, you can't, they won't have anything to do with you.

00:20:35And thus you're left with the crazies. And if you want to spend your life around the crazies,

00:20:40that's not a good plan in my humble opinion. And you should try to avoid it as much as humanly

00:20:45possible. All right. Now you're just gaslighting. Well, you're just making up words there. It's not

00:20:51actually an argument. I mean, to say that you're just gaslighting. I mean, that's not, not an

00:20:57argument. No, gaslighting is not an argument. I'm giving you reasons as to why you shouldn't

00:21:02believe in this stuff. I mean, so I focus my attention on it as a different story.

00:21:09You should not believe in things that are self-contradictory for which there's absolutely

00:21:12zero proof and evidence and which defy reality and reason.

00:21:15It's like, uh, our entire universe and physical matters generated by a mind. So

00:21:21I'm sorry. Our entire universe and physical reality is still generated by a mind. So

00:21:28matter doesn't exist outside of mind either. So, so I don't exist for you.

00:21:34I mean, we all exist inside this mind known as God. So if you don't believe in God,

00:21:38then you don't exist. I know. It's like, if you, there is no God, then you don't exist.

00:21:44So God is responsible for my existence. And if I don't believe in God, I don't exist.

00:21:50No, it's like atheists. So there would have to be a God for you to exist in like a singular

00:21:59reality.

00:22:00Okay. Fantastic. That's a very interesting thesis. Uh, make the case. I'd love to hear it.

00:22:04I mean that sincerely, like I'd love to hear the case. You're just saying stuff,

00:22:08but I'd love to hear the case, like make the case.

00:22:11All right. So, all right. So we all exist inside the same reality. So that singular thing,

00:22:18which would have several different factors, it would be all knowing, consider it,

00:22:22it would contain all our information. It would be universal.

00:22:26No, no, no. I don't know. You, you, you're begging the question. So you want to make the case

00:22:28that we only exist in the mind of God. Is that right?

00:22:31Right. Definitely. Yeah. Okay. Then make the case. All right. So overall case is that,

00:22:42all right, four, we all exist inside the mind. So God would be everywhere. All right. He's

00:22:50all knowing and he's our own creator. So let's say God time travels in order to create our own

00:22:57universe. That's how space time even begins. Everything that exists, therefore, is willed

00:23:04by God. And it exists virtually inside of his own like matrix. Now, everything outside of that

00:23:12matrix, outside of his own information, essentially doesn't exist. So therefore, we're not, sorry,

00:23:21you're not, sorry to interrupt. You're not making a case. You're just making statements like God is

00:23:26everywhere. Everything is willed by God. These are not proofs. This is not how you reason with

00:23:30people. This is not how you make a case. You're just saying stuff. You have to prove it, right?

00:23:35You have to have some evidence for what you believe. Otherwise you can't connect with other

00:23:39human beings because we can only connect in reality, reason, evidence, the evidence of the

00:23:43senses and so on. I mean, it's a foundational belief of yours and you should have a reason for it,

00:23:55right? I mean, do we exist inside multiple realities or just one, a coherent thing?

00:24:02I mean, my case would be that we exist within one reality independent of an external mind.

00:24:09Would all that information be connected into a mind or no?

00:24:14No. No, because there's no evidence for it and there's no need for the...

00:24:18So would it all be scattered into like different realities in a way?

00:24:18Sorry, go ahead.

00:24:19So would it all be scattered into like different realities in a way?

00:24:22I have no idea what you mean by different realities.

00:24:25So like what would keep it whole or unified? Like that reality?

00:24:31You mean our tangible empirical reality?

00:24:36Just like everything that you could possibly comprehend.

00:24:41What holds it all together? My skull and gravity and so on, right? I mean, what holds my brain

00:24:47together is the laws of physics and biology and my skull and all of that. So I don't see any

00:24:52need

00:24:52for an external omnipotent consciousness.

00:24:56I mean, so you would kind of view yourself as a god in a way that your mind, your own

00:25:01brain...

00:25:02No, no, no, no, no, not a god. Just a man.

00:25:06All right. So God models... So our brains model reality in a way.

00:25:11Like that's how we make sense of the world.

00:25:13What do I mean by our brains model reality?

00:25:16Yeah.

00:25:17I mean, you know where things are and your brain stores that in memory, right?

00:25:22So for you to like interact with the world, there has to be like a level of coherence in your

00:25:25own

00:25:25mind.

00:25:26Oh, like I have a show here Wednesday night at seven o'clock. So I show up Wednesday night at

00:25:29seven o'clock and do the show. You mean something like that?

00:25:31No, no, like spatial reasoning, like where things are in your room, how things work.

00:25:34Yes. So, I mean, you're totally right about that. So we get evidence of the senses in raw data,

00:25:41and then our brain, our consciousness assembles that into a coherent and accurate view of the

00:25:47universe. And we couldn't survive as creatures if we didn't do that. Like we couldn't hunt,

00:25:51we couldn't fight, we couldn't build shelter or anything like that if we didn't have an accurate

00:25:55view of the universe. So from the raw evidence of the senses, we create a rational and coherent and

00:26:03objective view of the universe so that we can operate within it in order to survive.

00:26:09So I would simply go out on a foot and say that that sort of model is generated, but on

00:26:16a larger

00:26:16scale inside the, what we could pretty much call the mind of God.

00:26:20Okay. So make that case.

00:26:22Hang on. You can't just say it though. You got to make a case.

00:26:27All right. So is your mind conscious?

00:26:29Yes.

00:26:31All right. So if your mind is conscious, could it be that it would exist inside of an even

00:26:37greater consciousness? That such a being and a thing, let's say as complicated as the entire

00:26:45universe, that would contain all of our own minds, be generating like your mind and everyone

00:26:52else's?

00:26:53No.

00:26:55All right. So there's nothing more complicated than the human mind.

00:26:58I didn't say that. I mean, I assume that there are things more complicated than the human mind

00:27:02because the universe is...

00:27:04All right. So the universe generating your mind has been more complicated.

00:27:07You got to let me, you got, you, I want you to keep your word and let me finish my

00:27:10thoughts.

00:27:11So of course there are things out there, I'm sure, that are more complicated than the human

00:27:14mind. There is life out there, more complicated, that's had more time to evolve and, and so on. So

00:27:19yeah, there are things more complicated. But the thing is, if you're going to say

00:27:22consciousness exists within a larger consciousness, then God would exist in a larger consciousness and

00:27:30God would exist in a larger consciousness and the super God or the super God squared and

00:27:33the super God cubed, let me finish, let me finish my thoughts. Okay. This is how you have a conversation,

00:27:40right? So it's the problem of infinite regression. So if we say all consciousness exists within an

00:27:47infinitely larger consciousness, then that just goes on and on forever. At some point,

00:27:51there has to be a consciousness that is not embedded in a larger consciousness. And that's

00:27:56just us because we don't need any of that. At some point, you have to stop the infinite regression and

00:28:00you have to say, this is the limit of our consciousness within consciousness. And since there's

00:28:06zero evidence for our consciousness being embedded in a larger consciousness, and since you have to

00:28:12accept that there's a consciousness that's not embedded in the larger consciousness, which in

00:28:16this case would be God, you have an unnecessary multiplication of explanations for which there's

00:28:21zero evidence and you should abandon it as false and incorrect.

00:28:25I'd say that's definitely a logical fallacy. And that this is why God is known as the self-generated,

00:28:31also known as the all, because he generates himself, including space-time.

00:28:37Okay. So hang on. So, sorry. So you have consciousness that generates itself. So that's

00:28:41me. Like you already say consciousness can generate itself. So that's me. And I can, I

00:28:47generate, my consciousness generates, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. My consciousness

00:28:51generates itself. And you say, well, God does that, but you don't need it. If you're going to

00:28:55say consciousness can generate itself, then my consciousness generates itself and we don't

00:29:00need all of this other infinity for which there's zero evidence.

00:29:03Okay.

00:29:13I would say the consciousness of God generates itself, or it's the consciousness of humans

00:29:18that's generated by God.

00:29:20Okay. So here's what you need to do.

00:29:22And we need, oh, we don't have a world in which he is created in order to be.

00:29:25So you can, you can prove this very easily. You can prove this very easily, which is if

00:29:30I am contained within the consciousness of God, and you know that for certain, then it would

00:29:36make more sense for you to have God speak to me than for you to be speaking to me because

00:29:42I, you and I are both embedded in the consciousness of God. And so if you can just have God

00:29:48speak

00:29:48to me, that would prove, you know, if I say, look, I have a, I'm Alexander Graham Bell and

00:29:53I say, look, I can, I can phone you over these copper wires and I can talk to you, uh,

00:29:5810 miles

00:29:59away or a hundred miles away or whatever. Right. Uh, okay. That seemed, that would seem a little

00:30:03bit unbelievable at the turn of the century, last century, but what you do, you, you phone

00:30:08up and you say, oh, hello, hello. Right. And then you hear the, the voice in the, and, and

00:30:13you can talk back and forth. And so if you believe that there's an uber infinite, perfect

00:30:18consciousness that surrounds us like the force and permeates us and, and knows everything,

00:30:24then you just need to like, why are you talking to me? If you have infinite consciousness

00:30:30consciousness that can communicate with me, then rather than telling me about this infinite

00:30:37consciousness, the infinite consciousness would contact me himself because obviously he's, you

00:30:42believe he's contacted you, which is why you have these beliefs. I believe that it is a bit of a

00:30:47vainglorious delusion that you're not achieving much in life. So you like to feel special by making

00:30:51up consciousnesses and alternate dimensions and ghosts. And that way you feel like you are special or

00:30:58achieving something or the center of someone's attention, which I don't think you are, but it

00:31:04wouldn't make any sense for you to tell me all about this absolutely perfect consciousness. What

00:31:08would make sense is for that absolutely perfect consciousness to communicate to me, which he

00:31:13never has because he doesn't exist. All right. So now you're both gaslighting and throwing out

00:31:20ad hominem attacks. So, and being quite a hypocrite for interrupting. Uh, yeah, that's a, that's a fair

00:31:29point for sure. Sorry about that. Now it's not an ad hominem because there has to be some reason why

00:31:35you would believe things that aren't at all logical and for which there's no evidence that there's

00:31:39usually some sort of psychological motivation. I don't see it as illogical. It's like the entire

00:31:44universe. It's going to be contained from within itself. Understand? So that's all this unified

00:31:49thing. All right. It doesn't exist in a vacuum. All right. Is your brain all connected into one

00:31:55thing? You know that you're just doing word salad here, right? The universe is connected to within

00:32:02itself. Like that doesn't mean anything. I mean, obviously it is. We're not living in this huge

00:32:07multiverse or things like this. You know, I gave it a shot. I gave it a shot, but, uh, this

00:32:13is not

00:32:13somebody who's going to have any capacity for reasoning, but, you know, uh, maybe this is

00:32:18just a sort of habit from, uh, myself in the past where I tried to save my mom from this

00:32:23kind of stuff, but, um, it's not gonna, it's not gonna happen. And it is a shame. I mean,

00:32:29I haven't engaged with someone like this in, in many, many years, but I hope that you found

00:32:34that somewhat useful in that it is really important to try to engage with people because

00:32:39we all have some irrational ideas. We all have some nutty ideas and I've never really had that

00:32:47there's a certain kind of impermeability or imperviousness to external reality that people

00:32:55just can't seem to get through. It's a, it's a real shame. You cannot get through to people

00:32:59who view themselves as a kind of God. Cause he said, Oh, so you think you're a God? It's like,

00:33:04well, no, you think you're a God because you have access to this perfect universe and God

00:33:11and brain. Then why would you need to talk to me? The universe would talk to me. All right.

00:33:15We have another caller. What is on your mind? You will need to unmute.

00:33:29Hello, Stefan. Can you hear me? Yeah, go ahead. Oh, first time, a long time. Um, I have the

00:33:36teeniest, tiniest bone to pick with you. Um, it was about one of your episodes that you released

00:33:41in the last week, um, um, about peaceful parenting. And I want to say, first off, I, I full advocate

00:33:48of peaceful parenting, UPV, but you said that, um, the only way that we're going to get a stateless

00:33:55society is, uh, peaceful parenting. And while I, I'm a full advocate for it, I, I don't feel

00:34:01that there's a forcing function. I feel that, um, we still have financial incentives for people

00:34:07to not be peaceful parents, not, uh, uh, um, adhere to the non-aggression principle. Like

00:34:14for instance, if we ostracize, we're basically ostracizing ourselves from the majority of society

00:34:22when we're ostracizing people who violate the NAP and all that, right? Would you agree

00:34:27that we're a minority? We are a minority. So I think that we, it, peaceful parenting needs

00:34:35conjunction. And this is where I said, it's a very small bone to pick, uh, because you're

00:34:41also a giant Bitcoin advocate. And I think that we need to financially penalize the people

00:34:46who are violators of the NAP, UPV, peaceful parenting by removing our demand from their

00:34:53currency. I think they both have to go in conjunction with each other, or we're just

00:34:59going to be a small minority, removing our ability to benefit from the division of labor.

00:35:06Okay. So is your bone to pick, which I appreciate, I mean, I can always be incorrect. So I appreciate

00:35:11that. Is your bone to pick with me that I say you should shun unrepentant evildoers. And you say

00:35:17that isolates us as a community or change agent in the world. No, I think that morally you should,

00:35:24but I, I, I don't think that we are penalizing them by removing ourselves from their economy,

00:35:32their, so their social circles, because we are the minority. I believe that people are still

00:35:38financially incentivized to ignore morals, like don't hit your children, don't violate the NAP

00:35:45because especially with like the Cantian effect, where the first recipients of newly printed money

00:35:51get to spend it before the prices increase, like all the big business in the world, like people are

00:35:56going to have to give up push jobs because their boss is violating the NAP or whatever. And that's

00:36:02going to inherently conflict with people who want to do good.

00:36:07Okay. So I'm not sure what specific thing you are trying to correct me on. Sorry if I missed

00:36:12something.

00:36:12Oh, I'm sorry. Uh, I'll try and specify it more. Um, you said that in the reason that you're focusing

00:36:18mostly on peaceful parenting is if we only have peaceful parents, then all of a sudden we'll have

00:36:24a stateless society and I'm saying, no, no, no, come on. Don't, don't be a, no, no, hang on,

00:36:29hang on. So don't mischaracterize what I said. Have I ever said like instantly, miraculously,

00:36:36the moment that there's peaceful parenting, we'll have a stateless society. I've never said that,

00:36:40right?

00:36:40No, no, no, no, you did not. Um, but you said that that's what you're focused on because you

00:36:44think that, and I agree with you, like, yes, we need children who learn how to reason and

00:36:51voluntarily trade first. But if we're just a minority, like, are we penalizing the people who are

00:36:57not doing that?

00:36:59When, and maybe I have, you've listened to the show recently that I did, but have I said that

00:37:05the purpose of shunning evildoers is to penalize them?

00:37:08No, but we're penalizing ourselves by ostracizing ourselves from anyone who's a

00:37:15violator of that, no?

00:37:17So if somebody has a horrible illness that is airborne, are you penalizing yourself by shunning them?

00:37:28Yeah.

00:37:29Well, isn't evil and corruption kind of contagious and bad and dangerous? So if there's an evildoer,

00:37:37let's say there's somebody in my neighborhood who beats his children and I talk to him and he's

00:37:42like, he just doubles down and all of that. And then I decide to shun him.

00:37:45Um, why would that, my motivation wouldn't be to penalize him or, and it's certainly, it wouldn't

00:37:53penalize myself to not be in the company or orbit of somebody who was assaulting his children.

00:38:01So help me understand the negative of shunning an evildoer.

00:38:08Uh, that's why I said it was such a small bone to pick. Cause I agree with you. Like, I,

00:38:11I don't

00:38:12want to associate with people like that, but if we are just like, if we were just homesteaded and all

00:38:19that, like we would lose the, like not a single person in the world can build a pencil from

00:38:23scratch. We need the division of labor and, um, trade with others. So like, we can't just,

00:38:31I know I'm autistically speaking about this from purely economics, but I'm saying we need

00:38:37to financially penalize them from us NAP adheres. Um, and I think we could do that by using

00:38:49peaceful parenting, UPB in conjunction with removing our demand from their evil fiat money.

00:38:55And I know you're a Bitcoin advocate. I know that I'm just saying that it needs to be in

00:39:00conjunction with that economically. Okay. So if I understand this correctly, and I'm, I'm not

00:39:06trying to mischaracterize your position. I just want to make sure I understand it. So I have a

00:39:10camera, right. That I bought recently. And I don't know if the people who made the camera beat their

00:39:16children. I mean, I statistically, the people who make the camera are likely to not be peaceful

00:39:22parents just because we are a minority. So is your argument that we can't shun everyone, even though

00:39:30almost everyone is not a peaceful parent. And therefore we should work with people, um, even though they,

00:39:37maybe very much opposed to what we believe in, uh, not exactly. Like, that's what I'm saying

00:39:44that this is the nuance of it. It's like, we do need to use these products that like your camera

00:39:48that you're able to communicate the show with. Like we need that. You couldn't produce that. I

00:39:52know you're a fucking brilliant guy. You couldn't produce that camera on your own. If you, it was

00:39:57just you, right. Would you agree with that? Well, of course, I mean, we're all intelligent people

00:40:02here. Yes. I cannot afford your camera on my own. Agreed. Right. So I mean, if we can't make a

00:40:07pencil

00:40:07on our own, we certainly can't make a camera. So go ahead. Okay. My point is, is if we can

00:40:12at least

00:40:12remove our demand from this, I mean, I know you've had your, the reason I got into Bitcoin, uh, if

00:40:20we

00:40:20can remove our demand for their currency, at least we are not penalizing ourselves economically.

00:40:27And we are kind of forming our, what would you call it? I don't want to use the word

00:40:33commune because it sounds too communistic, but we're forming our society of non-aggression

00:40:37principle, non-violators, and we are still enriching ourselves because we are only using

00:40:43a finite money that doesn't inherit steel. Okay. So do you agree with me that it's worth

00:40:48shunning unrepentant evildoers that you know of? I mean, I don't inquire as to who built this

00:40:53camera and what their theories of parenting are. Right. So I don't know. So would you

00:40:57agree with me though, that if you know someone's an unrepentant evildoer that you should shun

00:41:02them? Yes. Okay. And we certainly agree on Bitcoin. And I've never said everybody has to

00:41:10go live in the woods and never communicate to anyone. I mean, clearly I haven't because

00:41:13I communicate with people. Hang on, let me, let me finish. I communicate with people all

00:41:19the time, right? Using technology that is built and maintained by people who are almost

00:41:23certainly not peaceful parents. So I'm trying to understand what you're trying to correct

00:41:28me on.

00:41:29That is what, like I said, it's very nuanced, but that we're not disincentivized. And I

00:41:38know you understand like the whole evolution. I just listened to your, the woman spend too

00:41:43much podcast that you put out, I think today or yesterday. Maybe we were talking about how

00:41:48you were talking about how the majority of people, um, Oh, um, we will get outbred if

00:41:59we do not do something to, and this is for your daughters, daughters, daughters, daughters,

00:42:05daughters generation. We will get outbred because there is no restraint on evildoers. And

00:42:12I didn't, I'm trying to make the point that if we used a money that was finite, uh, like

00:42:18Bitcoin, obviously, and we removed our demand for it, that would put financial disincentives

00:42:23for those people to keep being evil.

00:42:26Well, okay. So let me ask you this, let's say fiat currency collapses. You've got some

00:42:34Bitcoin and people want your help because they're hungry. People on your street, people,

00:42:41whatever in your life, and maybe they're not very good people, right? They're just people

00:42:44that you work with or people on your street. And this comes back to the ancestral question.

00:42:48If you plan for winter and your neighbor doesn't plan for winter and he comes knocking on your

00:42:53door in February, what do you do? So let's say, cause this is where the staunch stuff is

00:42:58going to have to be. And this is where maybe I'll alarm people or whatever, but that's, you

00:43:02know, my job is to be as honest as I can. So if people, their, their, their fiat currency

00:43:09turns to worthless Zimbabwe toilet paper in their hands, they cannot get resources and

00:43:16they're begging you, just give me some Satoshis so that I can feed my children. What do you

00:43:21do?

00:43:22Well, that's the reason I'm saying that this has to go in conjunction with the peaceful

00:43:26parenting.

00:43:27What do you do?

00:43:30Uh, if you can employ them, you give them some Satoshis and for their employment, but

00:43:36that, you know, okay.

00:43:38No, these people wanted to rob you through their addiction to fiat currency. You feed people

00:43:43at your own expense who would not plan for winter, even though you begged them.

00:43:48Oh, you shoot them.

00:43:49No, I don't, I'm not saying you shoot them, but I wouldn't help them. I wouldn't help them.

00:43:56Well, I, I'm sorry. I thought you were implying that they were feral and that they have nothing.

00:44:00No, I said, they come and ask you, give me some Satoshis so my family can eat.

00:44:04Oh no, I would definitely keep it from me and my family unless they were willing to do a

00:44:09productive task that I wasn't willing to do. And then I'd pay them for it.

00:44:12Okay. Right. So that, that is coming. Uh, just, just so everyone's aware of my job is to see,

00:44:20okay, bro, when I'm talking, please, for the love of all it's holy, I don't know why this is the

00:44:24case

00:44:24in the modern world. When I start talking, people like blah, blah, blah, blah in my ear. I know I

00:44:28sometimes interrupt. I get that, but I am supposed to be running the show here. So it's coming, man.

00:44:34You're going to have resources that other people are going to want because other people are all in

00:44:39on fiat currency. They're all in on debt. They're all in on made up monster money and they don't

00:44:48care. They're, they're happy to get it. They're happy to dabble in it. They're, they, these are

00:44:53the people who hand their children over to rank indoctrination. These are the people who are

00:44:57like, if the teacher says, well, you know, little Johnny seems to be kind of unattentive. It's like,

00:45:01oh, let's stuff some methamphetamines up his nose. So he goes, sag face, drooling zombie,

00:45:07vanished person. These are the people who, when you bring a shred of reality to them,

00:45:13they react like boomers with IQ data. Just, oh, it's like cross to a vampire. All those

00:45:22who live in unreality will not survive. The basic fact of life. Oh, I don't need to store up food

00:45:29for

00:45:29the winter. You're crazy, man. That's just a myth. All those who reject reality will not survive. Now,

00:45:36of course, when the consequences of rejecting reality accrue to people, what do they do?

00:45:41They come and beg and plead and threaten and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it is our job

00:45:48to say no. Do not be manipulated. Do not be guilted. One of the reasons I've put myself in

00:45:57considerable danger over the years to get the truth out to people is so when I get that

00:46:04knock on the door when they don't have any food and it's wintertime, I say,

00:46:12I told you all for 40 years and you chose not to listen. Hey, you chose not to listen.

00:46:18I told you to quit smoking and now you're sick. Well, you're not coming to my house and I'm not

00:46:23giving you a penny because the price of not listening to good advice is getting zero support

00:46:28when disaster strikes. And this is going to be a male phenomenon because the women,

00:46:35oh, throw open the gates. They're hungry. They're cold. They're needy. Their children are so sad in

00:46:41the snow. No. No. No. No. Because if we give aid and comfort to those who would destroy us,

00:46:54because we've thought ahead and they haven't listened to good advice, we start the cycle of

00:46:59history over and over again. Why is it that we, if from the northern climates, tend to be a little

00:47:06bit better at planning, a little bit higher in the IQ space because our ancestors did not hand over

00:47:12all of their food to fools who didn't listen about the dangers of winter. We only have what we have

00:47:20as a culture, as a human race, because we did not subsidize fools who didn't listen,

00:47:27who won't, they, and they won't even admit fault when disaster has come. Now, if someone comes to me

00:47:33and says, oh, you know, like to take this winter analogy, right? Someone comes to me and says,

00:47:38Steph, you know, oh my gosh, I didn't listen and here's why. And you're totally right. And it's not

00:47:41manipulative. It's very honest and so on. Maybe. But people, well, they just double down. They triple

00:47:46down. They quadruple down. You have got to slam the door in the face of people who don't listen

00:47:51to good advice because otherwise there's no reason for people ever to listen to good advice. If they

00:47:58can just get the same goodies and resources and comfort and jam in the middle of winter as if they

00:48:05had planned for it themselves, there's never going to be any point. People, I'm afraid, I hate to say it

00:48:11because I wish people would listen rather than suffer. I don't want anyone to die of lung cancer,

00:48:14which is why I say to everyone, stop smoking. But if you keep smoking, you're going to get sick.

00:48:19You're going to get sick. And I will give you nothing from my lot or nothing from my resources,

00:48:25because what I gave you for decades was good advice. And all you had to do was take it.

00:48:31And if you didn't take it, I got nothing for you. All I had was good advice. And if you'd

00:48:37taken it,

00:48:38we would be brothers in plenty. If you don't take it and we're going to have to have a time,

00:48:43the money is running out, the unfunded liabilities are escalating, and the debt is overwhelming the

00:48:49body politic. And we've got to toughen up because winter is coming. You know, this Game of Thrones,

00:48:55seven years of summer, seven years of winter, that's just fiat currency. People are living in

00:48:59a psychotic, money-printed, absolute psych ward of unreality. And when reality hits, it's going to hit

00:49:06hard. And the people in the cities are going to be out of food, and there's going to be no

00:49:11water,

00:49:11and it's going to be zombie-ville. And you better have a plan, and you better be able to slam

00:49:18the

00:49:18doors of your heart so that you and yours can survive. And if you give away everything you've

00:49:24got to the people who didn't listen to reason, who didn't listen to, and who mocked you and scorned you

00:49:30and threatened you and called you crazy and whatever, right? Extremist. Well, there was no point

00:49:39for any of that if everybody crumbles and just gives resources to people who are out of resources

00:49:44through vanity and foolishness. Not everyone gets to the promised land. Not everyone makes it to spring.

00:49:53So, as far as that goes, I think that one of the reasons that I disconnect from the corrupt is

00:50:03so

00:50:03they don't have any illusions about what happens in the depths of winter when they run out of food.

00:50:11I don't want them to have any illusions. I don't want them to have any beliefs that somehow the doors

00:50:18of my heart and larder will be thrown wide open and they can help themselves to whatever they wanted.

00:50:22Nope. I have told the truth to the world for 45 years. I have earned contempt for those who don't

00:50:32listen. Society has attacked me, castigated me, threatened me. I have had venues attacked,

00:50:39bomb threats, death threats, and so on, with no comfort or succor from society. There has not been

00:50:44a big group of people who were like, no, we're going to make this right. We're going to like...

00:50:48People are just like, oh, we've got a truth teller. Yeah, it's going to be fun to watch them

00:50:51throw battery, giant car batteries at him and it's going to be fun to watch him dance from place to

00:50:57place and be chased through the streets. It's going to be fun. That's our truth teller. Let's play hunt

00:51:01the truth teller. Or, you know, if we're not going to play hunt the truth teller, at least let's watch

00:51:06people play hunt the truth teller. And it's like, you know what? Fine. I absolutely kind of love the world

00:51:12for that. I know this sounds a little nuts. I absolutely kind of love the world for that. Because I

00:51:17have

00:51:18been uncoupled from all obligations to save and help those who have cheered on my ostracism and

00:51:25attack from society. They can go take a long walk off a short pier. They can go pound sand. They

00:51:32can

00:51:32fill their boots and go elsewhere. You know that line, go sell your crazy somewhere else. We're all

00:51:39full up here. It's like, go demand your empathy somewhere else. We're all out here. So, sorry for that

00:51:46long speech. If there's anything you want to add at the end, I'm happy to hear.

00:51:49Yeah, I just want to say sorry for interrupting you. I don't know. I guess it's something where

00:51:52you can't interpret racial cues to be like, oh, it's his turn to speak now. And I overspoke. Sorry.

00:51:57I agree with everything you said. Yes, those people deserve the cold harshness. But I guess the whole

00:52:05thing that I started off on is that you have done an excellent job of proving morality. And I was

00:52:14a

00:52:14former atheist and now I'm back to Christian. And UPB has only solidified Christianity because

00:52:19it just proved all those commandments valid through rational reasoning. But I guess I'm

00:52:25concerned with that if somebody morally understands don't hit people, don't initiate violence,

00:52:30they also have to understand the economics or they're going to be put in a compromised

00:52:33position where they're like, yes, we know that the fiat money pressure has to go burr and

00:52:38it's going to impoverish these people. It'd be nice that if there was hordes knocking at your

00:52:43door asking for resources, that at least you have your kin or NAP respecters also enriched

00:52:50and taking care of and not impoverished. Does that make sense?

00:52:54When have I argued that you should not care for virtuous family members?

00:52:59No, that's not what I was saying.

00:53:01You said, no, don't automatically gaslight me and tell me I got everything wrong.

00:53:06I'm sorry.

00:53:06You said, well, when the tough times come, it's important to have good people in your

00:53:12family who recognize and respect the non-aggression principle and so on. I mean, you know I have

00:53:18a family, right?

00:53:19I didn't mean your family. I'm more speaking to your audience because when you're talking

00:53:24about how the way to the stateless society is peaceful parenting, I'm saying those people

00:53:28who might understand, yes, peaceful parenting is the way, not aggressing on people, UPB is the

00:53:34way. If they don't also understand the economics of the, you know, uh, the dollar, all fiat currencies

00:53:42have to increase their supply and it's going to punish them if they don't protect themselves

00:53:46via a money that doesn't steal from them, they might find themselves impoverished despite

00:53:50doing the right thing. Morally.

00:53:54People might, well, everyone can be impoverished despite doing the right thing. Of course.

00:53:58I mean, morality doesn't make you immune to blowback or negative consequences. I'm a little

00:54:04lost here. And, and listen, I'll give you one more chance. I still don't know exactly

00:54:06what we're talking about. So I, I still not sure what your correction is and we've been

00:54:11talking for a long hang on. Oh my God. What is this habit where I started talking and people

00:54:15is it's just some modern fucking brain rot infection that I'm sorry to be insulting, but

00:54:19it's just like, I'm trying to tell you something and you just, everybody just immediately starts

00:54:24talking. It's the wildest thing. It's like you're all raised in barns or something like

00:54:28that or just not used to any kind of, um, back and forth conversation. So, um, yeah,

00:54:36I'm going to just, uh, remove you. I, you know, I appreciate, I, I certainly don't mind

00:54:41and I'm sorry, I dumped somebody. If you can just, uh, I, I removed the wrong person from

00:54:44the speaker queue. So, uh, you know, just, just to be clear, I've always said you need

00:54:48to have good people around you. You need to have people who support you and yeah, I mean,

00:54:55but, but you shouldn't have people around you who are corrupt. Uh, they will simply betray

00:55:00you. Uh, and you know, uh, as AI and surveillance and so on begins to increase, it becomes more

00:55:07and more dangerous to have status around you because they'll just make stuff up and turn

00:55:10you over. All right. Somebody, um, work on something, something. If you wanted to let me

00:55:19know what's on your mind, I'd love to hear. It's work on your gut stuff. That's okay.

00:55:26Um, I was wondering, we have two little girls. We've got a 26 month old and one that just

00:55:33turned one a couple of weeks ago. And obviously the two year old is getting to that stage where

00:55:40she's wanting to body slam and push and shove the smaller one. And we do our best to keep an

00:55:48eye

00:55:48on it and, you know, tell her no and apologize and do whatever, but it definitely, you know,

00:55:56you don't want to hit your kids, but how do you go about telling your kid or how do I

00:56:05put it?

00:56:06How do you teach the kid to not be a kid? I guess you could say.

00:56:12Okay. So your, uh, congratulations on the kids. Of course, it's lovely to hear.

00:56:16So your 26 year old is violent towards your 12 month old. Is that right?

00:56:23Yes. The 26 month old. Sorry. You said year.

00:56:26Sorry. 26 months. My apologies. Okay. So, uh, and you said body slamming, what else is happening?

00:56:33Um, pushing, shoving essentially. So like they'll be walking around and they'll be having a good time

00:56:38playing around and, you know, just out of nowhere, she'll push her, shove her, laugh and run away.

00:56:45Oh, so she takes delight in it. It's not like out of anger.

00:56:48No, definitely not.

00:56:53All right. Now this doesn't mean that this is holding true for everything, but in my experience,

00:56:59when a child is violent, I mean, look, I talked about this in a call and show it's not out

00:57:05yet.

00:57:05So I'll just touch on it briefly here. Uh, siblings of course had a 50, 50 chance of dying before

00:57:10the

00:57:11age of five, which meant that you better be pretty aggressive as a sibling against your siblings,

00:57:16because everybody's fighting for scarce resources. Everybody needs the calories to feed the immune

00:57:20system, to fight the infection. Uh, and so everyone wants to sleep closest to the fire and not out in

00:57:25the edge where you can get grabbed by some wolf pack or something. So, uh, siblings

00:57:33are wired to fight each other because it was such a hurly burly slugfest of hunger games to get to

00:57:42adulthood and reproduce. So there is a certain amount of innate aggression that siblings are

00:57:48kind of programmed to have with each other. It doesn't mean that they're all going to do it.

00:57:51And it doesn't mean they all do it to the same degree, of course, but we start off pretty feral.

00:57:55And of course we evolved in a situation of significant scarcity and danger where turning

00:58:01on the other sibling is not unknown. It's a bit more unusual with a one-year-old because that

00:58:07is not usually in direct competition for resources, uh, and so on. So tell me a little bit about what's

00:58:13going on in the household, who's staying home, how are the kids taken care of and so on.

00:58:18Um, yeah, my wife is staying home, um, exclusively. She's running a photography business on the side

00:58:26to help supplement income, but I make just enough to make it possible. And, you know, we've cut,

00:58:32uh, not cut corners, but you know, we got a budget and make it all happen, but it's so worth

00:58:37it.

00:58:38Um, when we first started listening to you many years ago, um, my wife was a little apprehensive about,

00:58:45you know, wanting to stay home all the time. But after she did for a couple of months with the

00:58:50first child, um, you know, she's hooked obviously. And I wish I could also be home a lot more because

00:58:58I just, they're just so much fun, but you know, someone's got to make the money step on.

00:59:04Okay. So I mean, sorry, go ahead. I'm sorry. No, you go ahead. Um, she's very good with the kids.

00:59:12I mean, she doesn't, I mean, she might raise her voice to stop them from doing something,

00:59:18but I mean, there's no yelling, there's no anger. It's all very loving and, you know,

00:59:25she's very hands on with the kids. Okay. And what about extended family in-laws or neighbors or

00:59:35who are the other people who are around your kids? Um, all of our families around. Um, we actually

00:59:42just had a call about our crazy step mom or a mother-in-law the other week, but again, everyone's

00:59:49super cool. Everyone's very nice. No one's yelling, no one's screaming, no one's hitting the kids.

00:59:55And frankly, sorry to interrupt. So you're the guy who had a call with you and your wife about the

01:00:00mother-in-law. You're right. So do you see the problem? You see why my jaw is a little on

01:00:06the

01:00:07floor here, right? No. Because the mother-in-law was quite aggressive, right? Uh, not physically

01:00:15aggressive to the kids now. No, no, but she's dominant and aggressive to the parents, right? Yes.

01:00:23So I'm trying to figure out where you see the mystery for me.

01:00:27Oh, so you think that my mom being mean is why my two-year-old is pushing and jumping my

01:00:34little girl?

01:00:35Well, let me just sort of explain it for those who are listening in general. So children are naturally

01:00:41drawn to that which is most powerful in their environment, which is why little boys are like

01:00:46t-rexes and trucks and trains and giant airplanes and spaceships and lasers. And like they, they are

01:00:53drawn to that, which is physically powerful. Girls are drawn. Uh, sorry. Are they both girls? Just

01:01:02remind me. Yeah, they both are. Yeah. So girls are drawn to that, which is status dominant, particularly

01:01:10female. So if there is a cold, dangerous, dominant, aggressive grandmother around, then the child will

01:01:20be drawn to mimic and imitate that because children are drawn to reproduce that, which is the highest

01:01:25status. And for boys that tends to be, you know, trucks and strength and, and so on. And for girls,

01:01:30it tends to be whoever they perceive to be dominant in the social hierarchy. And so if you have an

01:01:39aggressive grandmother of the child around and you defer to that aggressive grandmother and so on,

01:01:45and she treats you with disrespect and then she clearly is higher status, she's clearly in the

01:01:49right. And clearly that's where your daughter is going to want to end up because children are drawn

01:01:55to the highest status that they can possibly get. And so if you have people who are around, who are

01:02:01aggressive, who don't listen, who put you down, who elbow you aside, who dominate you and so on,

01:02:06then your children will bypass you in modeling behavior and go for the highest status. Because

01:02:13of course, having high status as you grow into physical maturity, the higher status you are,

01:02:19then the higher quality mate you can usually get a hold of. So I personally have not had people

01:02:26around in my life. I'm not saying I've done it perfectly. I'm just telling you, of course,

01:02:29my particular perspective is that I don't have people around who do not treat me with respect.

01:02:37I do not have people around who put me down. I do not have people around who don't listen to

01:02:42me or

01:02:42who roll their eyes. And of course, I wouldn't have people around that I don't respect either. So,

01:02:46you know, it kind of goes both ways. But so if you combine the natural aggression of toddlers,

01:02:54particularly with regards to siblings, although it's usually when they're a little bit closer in age,

01:02:58because it's not like the 26 month old is doing a whole lot of conflict with the 12 month old

01:03:03who

01:03:03probably can barely walk for a lot of resources. But that would be copying the top of the pyramid

01:03:10that she is perceiving from a status standpoint. And that would be the first place that I would look

01:03:17for the source of the aggression. And that's why I asked, like, she laughs, she finds it funny,

01:03:23right? So the mother-in-law that we talked about, just remind me, uh, is she like a smiling villain

01:03:30in a way, or does she kind of laugh and roll her eyes at you and your wife's attempts at

01:03:36setting

01:03:36boundaries or being assertive? Or how does that play out? Um, I mean, she's a little dismissive

01:03:41about setting boundaries and whatever, as she has been her whole life that I've found from other family,

01:03:47but, um, she has never been bad around the kids. So it's not like she's demeaning us and doing

01:03:55whatever in front of the kids. Certainly, I'm sure it could happen in the future if things don't,

01:03:59you know, get better. But, um, yeah, she, I don't think she's getting it from my mom just based on

01:04:07all of our interactions. Okay. So you, you, you're very certain. And of course, you know, the situation

01:04:12infinitely better than I do. So you could be totally right. So you're saying that if your

01:04:19mother was a wonderful, wise, kind, moral woman, that the children would see her acting in exactly

01:04:26the same way around you as she is. Yes. No, not possible.

01:04:36Yeah, it's not possible. It's not possible for somebody who's immature, dominant, bossy,

01:04:41bullying, dismissive, eye rolling, doesn't treat you with respect. It's impossible for that person

01:04:47to spend time around you and your children on a continual basis and behave exactly as if she were

01:04:52a good, kind, moral, honorable, respectful individual. Can't happen. And so your children,

01:05:00sorry, go ahead. Otherwise I would, I mean, it is happening because otherwise I would absolutely

01:05:05say, Hey, these are the, um, actions that have been taken, you know, in front of our child that

01:05:11we are not cool with sort of thing. Cause I feel like they're too young and we don't hang out

01:05:15with

01:05:15them enough for that sort of stuff to, um, be a, you know, an attributor. Now I would say if

01:05:22they

01:05:22were four and five and we're fully aware of what's going on and we're around a lot more, cause

01:05:28again, we only see her like once a month. I mean, it's not like, uh, every other day sort of

01:05:32thing.

01:05:33So, well, do you spend time on the phone within earshot of your children? There's tone, there's

01:05:37deferrals, there's frustration. Do your kids ever hear about you and your wife talking about, uh,

01:05:43your mother with negativity or complaints or problems children? Like it's, it's a funny thing

01:05:48to remember, of course, but it's really important to remember. You have a whole world that you're like

01:05:51watching shows, you're going to work, you've got to fix your car like this, all this stuff got to,

01:05:55I got to, uh, renew the insurance. Like all this, I got to go to the dentist. You got all

01:06:00this stuff

01:06:01going on. Kids don't. Kids have like that, the family, the hierarchy, the structure, the household,

01:06:06that that's it. That's all they're focusing on. They got no other thoughts, no other responsibilities,

01:06:10nothing else intrusive that's coming in. See, virtue is a skill. It is an ability. It's like being

01:06:19really good at golf or tennis. And so when, if, if you were to say to me, I think as

01:06:28you did,

01:06:29if you were to say to me, well, my mother can perfectly imitate a good person every time she's

01:06:34around our children. And every time we're talking to her with an earshot of the children or anything

01:06:39like that, then that would be like saying, my mother is a really bad golfer, but for a couple of,

01:06:47like for six hours a month, she's a fantastic golfer. And it's like, no, that, that can't be

01:06:52true. If she's a bad golfer, she's going to be a bad golfer. And that's going to show up everywhere.

01:06:57If she's a good golfer, then she's a good golfer. So saying that my mother is not a mature and

01:07:03virtuous and good person, but she's, it has no effect on her relationship with us around the kids.

01:07:09I don't see how that could be true.

01:07:12Yeah. Well, example, so I had talked about how my, excuse me, grandmother was not very nice to my mom.

01:07:20I had just learned about that a few years ago. And I mean, I'm around them multiple times a year

01:07:25throughout the years growing up. And so does that mean I'm a dum-dum for not noticing or,

01:07:31you know, are people able to beat chameleons in the proper settings and, you know.

01:07:39Okay. So when your mother told you, or you found out that your grandmother was mean to your mother,

01:07:44when you look back, do you see the signs or was your grandmother able to perfectly imitate for

01:07:49decades, a very virtuous person?

01:07:52There might've been a few little things that I would have just written off as, you know,

01:07:57mom and daughter being sassy to each other. So I'm going to stick by that as I didn't have any

01:08:03idea.

01:08:04Okay. And did you notice that your mother was eager to spend time with her mother and

01:08:11enjoyed her company and sort it out on a regular basis?

01:08:15It's funny you say that because we, growing up, we made it a point to like every other weekend,

01:08:23go and visit either my dad's parents or my mom's parents, each who lived like,

01:08:27maybe five or five hours away. So we did, despite, you know, my dad's parents were very nice and very

01:08:35cool and loving. And my parents were kind of, my mom was opposite. So, you know, I do find that

01:08:40interesting in hindsight that we would go out of our way to continue to visit family that were so

01:08:46called, you know, mean or whatever. But for all we know, my mom could be completely fabricating and

01:08:52blowing it out of proportion based on other stuff. But I don't know, now that I'm older and heard from

01:08:58my aunt and other uncle, you know, that my grandma can be sassy from time to time.

01:09:04Well, hang on. I mean, we can all be sassy from time to time. It sounds like you're minimizing it

01:09:07now.

01:09:13No, I don't feel like I'm minimizing it, but if that's how you want to go.

01:09:17No, because you went from, hang on. No, because you went from, I'm a good listener, man. I don't

01:09:20know why people try this. So you went from my grandmother was mean to my mother to now she's

01:09:27just a bit sassy. Well, yeah, I feel like you can't be the same sort of mean when you're 70

01:09:34and

01:09:3550 as opposed to when you're stuck in someone's house and not able to go somewhere. Okay. So did

01:09:41your mother, was she eager to talk to your grandmother? Did she phone her? And when the

01:09:48phone rang and it was your grandmother, did you notice whether she was positive or negative in

01:09:53her emotions about getting a call from her mother? Um, I would say it was positive.

01:10:00Okay. So your mother enjoyed her relationship with her mother, was eager to talk to her,

01:10:06happy to be in contact with her, happy to visit her. But now your mother says that her mother was

01:10:11mean to her. Correct. Which sounds crazy, which is why I'm bringing it up, you know?

01:10:19Well, it's not crazy. It's not crazy. Hang on. It's not crazy if she's lying.

01:10:25Or she could be minimizing. I mean, what's the, is there a difference between minimizing and

01:10:29lying? I mean, that's, that's a big, I don't have enough evidence. I mean, of course there's a

01:10:34difference. It's just why we have, uh, two, two words, right? Um, you know, if, if I say I ran

01:10:41a full marathon when I only ran a half marathon, uh, I'm misrepresenting. If I say I ran a race

01:10:49when I

01:10:49didn't, that's sort of more black and white. One is a difference of degree. The other is a difference of

01:10:52kind. So minimizing is, uh, oh, my headache isn't that bad as opposed to saying I don't have a

01:10:59headache at all. Right? So yeah, they're, they're two, one's a difference of degree. The other is a

01:11:02difference of kind. So then either your grandmother was a very subtle mean person and your mother was

01:11:13masochistic because she enjoyed being in touch with somebody who is mean to her or your mother is

01:11:17fabricating how negative or mean your grandmother was. Is that right?

01:11:25I guess. But also how could it be, would you automatically say it's masochism if say she

01:11:32isn't, hasn't listened to someone like you who's like, Hey, this is how we should,

01:11:36you know, approach parents who have wronged us and done whatever. And, you know, cause I,

01:11:40you know, back in the day I was like, Whoa, Stefan's in a cult and he's making people not talk

01:11:44to their

01:11:44parents. And it's like, all right, well, there's nuance. These parents were terrible people. And

01:11:50it's not like Stefan just advocated, Hey, we're going to have one conversation and now you're

01:11:55ostracized, you know?

01:11:58I'm not sure what you're talking about. Sorry.

01:12:01Sorry. I might've gotten lost. I guess what level of masochism is my mom for talking to her own mom?

01:12:08If she doesn't have the intelligence or knowledge about being able to confront your mother about past

01:12:16shenanigans, I guess.

01:12:18But it's interesting that I start to poke around this kind of stuff and you start talking about the

01:12:23old cult accusations that were laid against me. See, that's kind of aggressive on your part, right?

01:12:30Well, I guess I don't know if people know about, you know, cause you've been around for a while.

01:12:35So, so no, I don't think you're going to call it stuff. I've been listening to you forever.

01:12:39To bring it up is interesting. It's kind of aggressive, right?

01:12:43I guess I could say that.

01:12:44No, it is. I mean, I can't say that cause it's true. So it's interesting that I start poking around

01:12:51whether your mother, if you're, if her, if her mother was mean to her and she still enjoyed the

01:12:57conversations and sort her out, there would be an elevator masochism, right? Like if somebody

01:13:02insults you and puts you down and you are eager to hang out with them, wouldn't that be kind of

01:13:07masochistic?

01:13:10I guess I'd have to know the exact definition of masochistic, but yes, I don't know. I feel like,

01:13:15I mean, with my dynamic with my mom is like, we can have very deep and nuanced conversations about

01:13:21all the shenanigans going on in the world. But then also, you know, she can say something very

01:13:25stupid and insensitive and then I can be mad and tell her about how that's not cool and

01:13:30cure my boundaries and then leave, but also be open to some sort of an apology or, you

01:13:38know, a conclusion to that situation.

01:13:43Okay. So she can be insensitive or thoughtless or mean to you, right?

01:13:48Well, anybody, but can't anybody.

01:13:51Anybody. I mean, talking about you, I'm not talking about everybody.

01:13:55Right. Okay. And she has never done anything thoughtless or mean to you or to your wife

01:14:05or anyone else while your children are around. Is that right?

01:14:09Correct.

01:14:10Okay. Okay. So she's very able to control her meanness, right? So, because if she's never

01:14:16been at all negative or mean when she's in the proximity of your children, or even when you're

01:14:21on the phone with her or something like that, then, uh, then she's very, very good at not

01:14:28being mean, which means she's completely responsible when she is mean, right?

01:14:32Correct.

01:14:33Right. And that's also a kind of gaslighting, right? So one of the reasons that people who

01:14:37are mean are not mean when you're around other people is why, why would, why would they do

01:14:42that?

01:14:43Well, Steph, Vaughn, because other people would not want to hang out with or give the

01:14:47time of day to those sorts of people immediately, you know, maybe, but how are you supposed to

01:14:53make friends and get around in the world and, you know, work your way up the ladder if you're

01:14:59creating enemies immediately with everyone that you talk to?

01:15:02I think that's part of it. Another big part of it is if your mother is nice when everyone

01:15:10else is around and not nice when she's just with you, what happens if you go to other people

01:15:16and say, my mother is not nice sometimes, what are they going to say?

01:15:19They're going to be like, what? No way. She's so nice. And I know you've talked about this,

01:15:24excuse me, with, uh, about your mother as well, which many years ago I found very interesting of

01:15:29like, Hey, that is interesting how people will act a certain way, but then, you know,

01:15:34say with waiters or going out to eat, you know, I've known very nice people to everyone I've

01:15:39known, but there are certain people that are just like terrible, the waiters for like almost

01:15:44no reason made with red flags.

01:15:47Now your eldest, your 26 year old girl, is she mean to the baby when there are other people

01:15:56around when her grandmother is around or other family members are around or you're out in public

01:16:01or at a restaurant? Is she also, uh, does she push or body slam her when other people are around?

01:16:07I would say no, mostly because there's not an opportunity to, because usually, you know,

01:16:13they're interacting with the family separately.

01:16:16No, no, there's all, you can always push someone. Okay. So then she is mirroring your mother's

01:16:20behavior in that she's mean in private sometimes and, um, not mean in public.

01:16:31That's how you know where the source is.

01:16:40Nice. All right. So, oh, so how should I, excuse me, address that then?

01:16:48Well, the way that you address that as a parent is you never, ever, ever let anyone dominate

01:16:57you in front of your children. And I really don't care how far you have to go. I mean,

01:17:04I was at a restaurant, uh, some years ago and, uh, what the waiter was, uh, making snarky

01:17:10comments about what I did in the show and things like that. Right. And I was just like,

01:17:15come on. The waiter actually knew who you were. I'm sorry. The waiter actually knew who you were.

01:17:22Why would you say something like that? You're a snarky little son of a gun sometimes.

01:17:26Nope. I don't, I'm not meaning it in a negative way. I just think that that's interesting.

01:17:31Well, if I met someone like you, you are a snarky little son of a gun. No, this is, this

01:17:36is,

01:17:37this is how bad, this is how, okay. I'm going to meet you. So this is how bad your ego

01:17:41boundaries

01:17:42are with your mother that, you know, we, I pointed out something that this is the second

01:17:46time. Right. So twice I pointed out something negative about your mother and you come back

01:17:51with a dig. Right. And that's really interesting. Right. So yeah, I'm, I'm done with the digs

01:17:57because that's not, uh, particularly fun for me. So, uh, I'm not going to talk to that guy

01:18:02anymore because he's in a state of unconsciousness and he's just acting out his mother's stuff,

01:18:07which is, so he's taken digs at me when I point out negatives about his mother. And this is where

01:18:14the eldest child's aggression is coming from. Right. So yeah. So the story I was, I was at a

01:18:21restaurant. Uh, I used to, it's not so common since COVID obviously, cause people stayed home

01:18:27and I was deplatformed and so on, but I used to get recognized probably everything.

01:18:32Third time I was out in the world and, uh, people would chat with me. Mostly it was very

01:18:36positive and, uh, sometimes it was negative, but I would never back down if confronted in

01:18:44public. And I don't have people in my life who don't treat me with respect. And that's

01:18:49because I know that children will go towards the person top of the hierarchy and reproduce

01:18:56that behavior. And so when I was pointing out, and you could see this sort of leveling up with

01:19:05this caller. So when I was pointing out negative things about his mother, his mother through him

01:19:10was passive aggressively fighting back to attempt to reestablish status with me. Right. So as I said,

01:19:16I don't have people in my life who treat me with disrespect. And so when he brought up the

01:19:24ancient cult accusations, which, you know, weren't a lot of fun at the time, and of course are

01:19:28completely discredited, but there was no reason to bring that up. That was just a form of, uh,

01:19:33being kind of bitchy and trying to put me down or achieve a higher status. Right. So I pointed it

01:19:38out and it's not the end of the world. It's fine. You know, we all make mistakes or we can

01:19:42all be a

01:19:42little bitchy from time to time. So then, and the second part of the conversation, when I pointed

01:19:47out something negative about his mother, uh, and, uh, then I talked about being recognized, I mean,

01:19:54I've had like a billion views and downloads. I've, I've spoken in on three different continents. I've

01:19:59had millions of books downloaded. Like people do kind of know who I am. So when I pointed out being

01:20:05recognized, like you, you got recognized. And it's like, again, that is a leveling. That is a dig. Right.

01:20:11Right. And I'm not saying it's conscious with him, but this unconscious aggression and put downs,

01:20:19which come right. I put down his mother and then his mother activates his internal mother to put me

01:20:24down and level up. So this stuff is happening with his children. I guarantee you, I guarantee you,

01:20:30this stuff is happening with his children. And that's where the aggression is coming from.

01:20:34What troubled me about the aggression he was talking about with regards to his daughter is that it

01:20:41was not aggression. It was giggling and laughter, which is kind of cruel, right? It's one thing,

01:20:49you know, you, you, you want the lollipop, uh, you push the kid, you grab the lollipop. That's kind

01:20:53of greedy and it's a little, little mean, right? But if you're pushing and giggling, uh, that means

01:20:58that's a lot of passive aggressive. And that is a little, I won't say sadistic because you know,

01:21:02that's a big, big word to put on a 26 month old little kid, but that usually does come from

01:21:07a kind

01:21:08kind of meanness that is subterranean. And then of course, if she was just aggressive,

01:21:15she pushed the kid everywhere. Right. But if she knows how to hide her aggression and the mother

01:21:20knows how to hide her, the grandmother knows how to hide her aggression, then that's the other thing

01:21:26too. So, yeah, so this guy, you know, I'm sorry that we didn't have a more productive conversation

01:21:30in the long run. But what I would suggest, I'm sure you'll listen back to this is

01:21:38you protect your mother from criticism by putting people down and giving them a negative experience,

01:21:43which were the cult accusations and the, you, you were, you were, you were recognized, right? Like,

01:21:49and so, I mean, I was the biggest intellectual in the world for quite some, uh, some time. And again,

01:21:54you know, the 2020 election and COVID kind of put pace to that. So, so I would say that you

01:22:00really do

01:22:01want to try and figure out where your aggression is coming from and how you manifest it. Because I

01:22:05think that what is happening is anytime there's criticism of your mother, you needle the other

01:22:14person in an attempt to get them to stop criticizing your mother. And that means that you are very much

01:22:19under the thumb of your mother, which means your mother is dominant in the hierarchy, which means that

01:22:24your eldest daughter is going to copy and paste your mother's personality structure because she's

01:22:30drawn to dominance. And that's why she's being aggressive to your baby. It's kind of neat how

01:22:34this stuff all comes together. All right. So, uh, thank you very much everyone for dropping by

01:22:41tonight. A great pleasure to chat. Freedomain.com slash donate. Love you guys all so much. Thank you. I

01:22:46mean, honestly, for the, the, the deep honor of being able to have these conversations, not just now,

01:22:51but for all time, uh, this stuff will be studied in thousands of years. Hi, thousands of years from

01:22:56now. Uh, uh, we missed you and we hope it worked out well. And if it did give us a

01:23:01little bit of

01:23:01thanks. And if it didn't, uh, we certainly tried our best. So freedomain.com slash donate to help

01:23:06out the show. Call.freedomain.com. Uh, for setting up a call-in show with me, public or private,

01:23:13it is your choice. Shop.freedomain.com for your tasty merch and peacefulparenting.com to share the

01:23:19book. I would really appreciate it. All right. Lots of love everyone. We will talk to you Friday

01:23:23night. I might be able to do a live stream tomorrow night with the gaming. I'm doing some

01:23:27let's plays, which are actually a lot of fun for me. And I hope that you enjoy them as well.

01:23:32It's a

01:23:32little break from some of the seriousness of the topics we have here. So I'll try for a let's play

01:23:37tomorrow. Okay. Lots of love my friends. Bye.

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