- 1 day ago
Philosopher Stefan Molyneux breaks down a caller's scars from his parents' brutal divorce, igniting self-reflection, personal accountability, and honest communication for relational freedom.
0:00:00 Family Challenges
0:09:42 Parental Support
0:32:01 Relationship Reflections
0:55:37 Jealousy in Love
1:13:14 Marriage Conversations
1:20:54 Moving Forward
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0:00:00 Family Challenges
0:09:42 Parental Support
0:32:01 Relationship Reflections
0:55:37 Jealousy in Love
1:13:14 Marriage Conversations
1:20:54 Moving Forward
GET FREEDOMAIN MERCH! https://shop.freedomain.com/
SUBSCRIBE TO ME ON X! https://x.com/StefanMolyneux
Follow me on Youtube! https://www.youtube.com/@freedomain1
GET MY NEW BOOK 'PEACEFUL PARENTING', THE INTERACTIVE PEACEFUL PARENTING AI, AND THE FULL AUDIOBOOK!
https://peacefulparenting.com/
Join the PREMIUM philosophy community on the web for free!
Subscribers get 12 HOURS on the "Truth About the French Revolution," multiple interactive multi-lingual philosophy AIs trained on thousands of hours of my material - as well as AIs for Real-Time Relationships, Bitcoin, Peaceful Parenting, and Call-In Shows!
You also receive private livestreams, HUNDREDS of exclusive premium shows, early release podcasts, the 22 Part History of Philosophers series and much more!
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LearningTranscript
00:00:00Yeah, sure. Thanks for the opportunity, by the way. So firstly, maybe I wanted to talk about to you with
00:00:09preference to my family situation recently, like maybe not that recently, but around three years ago, my parents got divorced.
00:00:18And since then, I had kind of find myself struggling with, you know, who should I back or who should
00:00:27I believe is doing the right thing. I know both of them are doing the wrong thing. So sometimes it's
00:00:36been a bit hard.
00:00:39And so maybe for some context, as long as I remember, my parents weren't, you know, like a very good
00:00:50marriage today. It worked. Everything was fine, but it wasn't like they loved each other. At least that's how I
00:00:57interpreted it.
00:01:00And it didn't came as a big surprise, the divorce. However, what was surprising was that my father actually filed
00:01:10for the divorce, which apparently was very surprising to my mother too, because she was, let's say, the one that
00:01:18always, you know, in some quarrels or fights, threatened him with divorce.
00:01:26And her reaction to that was very surprising. She was like, I would anticipate that after all these years of,
00:01:35let's say, being not a good match, right, that she would not be so hysterical. And like, it was completely
00:01:46not something I expected from her.
00:01:48I would say, I would say, you know, she would be kind of relieved, maybe, or a-okay with this.
00:01:58But no, it's been a disaster.
00:02:03Sorry, it's a bit hard to, like, say this as a monologue, so...
00:02:08No, no, keep going. It's fine.
00:02:10Yeah. So the reason for the divorce, as told by my father back then, was that...
00:02:18Yeah, they simply couldn't, like, you know, difference of characters, this kind of thing.
00:02:27Before that, they even separated for one year. Like, my dad wasn't living with us in the same apartment. He
00:02:33was living nearby, but not in the same apartment.
00:02:37And to be honest, during this time, the situation was far better as family life, because I also have a
00:02:45sister, and, you know, we used to visit him, he would cook for us, etc.
00:02:49So, I didn't really mind him not living with us, because when we were spending time with him, we actually,
00:02:59I would say, spend it better than if we lived together.
00:03:06And then, yeah. So, my mother's reaction was completely, like, weird to me, and it led to many stuff, like,
00:03:19many, many stuff that are not great.
00:03:22So, basically, they, you know, fired a lot of lawsuits against each other. None of them are finalized yet, and
00:03:30it's been, like, three years.
00:03:32I mean, the divorce is finalized now. It's more about the division of treasure and stuff like this.
00:03:38But also, there were, like, some charges. My dad pressed charges to my mom, because he went to visit him
00:03:45in another apartment to make a big fight.
00:03:48There were, like, very tense situations, to put it mildly. And the thing was that...
00:03:57Sorry, he pressed charges for assault?
00:03:59Not assault, but, like, that she destroyed his doors or something like this.
00:04:05Oh, like, yeah, property damage.
00:04:07Yeah, yeah. And this was because my mother found out he's been... he has a new woman now.
00:04:17Oh, this is... I should probably start with this.
00:04:19And back then, he told us there is nothing like this, but now I know it was already back then.
00:04:27So, when he filed for divorce, he must have had somebody back then.
00:04:32Now, he already has another child from another marriage.
00:04:36I mean, they are not married, but...
00:04:38Yeah, this kind of was, like, a big thing to me.
00:04:42I don't know also how to feel about this.
00:04:45Maybe you can help me, like, process these feelings, because I do not consider, like, his new child my sibling.
00:04:52I don't know. It's a bit weird to me.
00:04:55Okay. And sorry, how old are you and how old are your parents?
00:04:59My parents are 51. I'm 23 this year.
00:05:0523, okay.
00:05:07And they separated... sorry, just remind me, when did they separate? Have their divorce been finalized?
00:05:14No. Actually, the divorce was finalized, like...
00:05:18The divorce was filed three years ago during Christmas, but before that, they didn't live together, like, for one year
00:05:26or a few months.
00:05:28It wasn't right before the divorce. It was, like, one year before the actual divorce.
00:05:35Okay. Okay. And how is it that I can best help you with the time that we have today?
00:05:41Yes. So, good question.
00:05:48Now, after listening to you for quite a few months now, it's been better.
00:05:56But I would like to talk about, let's say, my parents individually, maybe, and if you could maybe help me
00:06:04assess them, their behavior, and how maybe I should behave.
00:06:11I know about the fooing and stuff like this.
00:06:15But I'm not living with them anymore for, like, more than two years now.
00:06:21Three, no, more than three years now.
00:06:25Yeah, so...
00:06:26I'm sorry. So, are you trying to assess your relationship with them?
00:06:31Yeah, yes.
00:06:32Okay. And what is your relationship with them like now?
00:06:37It's been, like, let's start with my father. So, he lives with his new family and new child. I rarely
00:06:46call him. He calls me, like, maybe once a week.
00:06:49We talk. We... He doesn't really invite me to his place, maybe sometimes. So, we have, like, very sporadic contact
00:06:59with each other.
00:07:03And, yeah, every time this happens, my mother is kind of angry that I stay in touch with him. So,
00:07:11if I ever tell her that, she freaks out.
00:07:16Yeah, and with my mother, it's... Sometimes, yeah, when this happens, for example, she hears that I had contact with
00:07:24my father, then she's, let's say, not talking to me for a week or two.
00:07:28And then she calls me to come for dinner. So, that's a bit weird. So, it was, like, we have
00:07:35contact, we don't have contact.
00:07:36Also, during this time, I was living abroad for half a year. So, I do not really have that much
00:07:44contact with them.
00:07:46And my mother is, like, this, you know, she cannot speak to me for a week because she's angry, but
00:07:52then she wants me to come visit her, like, twice a week.
00:07:55So, it's... It's not anything regular.
00:08:00Okay. And what value do your parents add to your life at the moment?
00:08:06So, most of my conversations with my father are, like, pragmatic, I would say.
00:08:14It was always like this. We don't have a very deep emotional connection.
00:08:19It's more like we are running, let's say, we are running through a checklist.
00:08:26At least, if, let's say, if I did this, if I, let's say, fix the car, if I paid my
00:08:32taxes or something like this.
00:08:34And with my mother, it's like, you know, we come, we talk.
00:08:39Sometimes it's okay. Sometimes it's, let's say, even quite nice.
00:08:44But sometimes she's, like, all angry and stuff, not talking to me, even though I come, right?
00:08:53I try, like, I try to, let's say, be okay to her.
00:09:00But at the same time, I'm not really, I just, for the past few years, I get so many, let's
00:09:09say, sad messages from her or even aggressive.
00:09:14Or she's blaming me or comparing me to my father that I stop to really care if she tells me
00:09:22something like this.
00:09:24Okay. Do you think that you've answered my question?
00:09:29Oh, sorry, probably not.
00:09:32What value do your parents bring to your life at the moment?
00:09:43That's, that's, that's, that's a good question.
00:09:48I guess that I can ask them for help and get this help if I need it.
00:09:54What sort of help?
00:09:58I guess whatever help.
00:10:02No, I mean, financial, I assume not emotional, like, what sort of help?
00:10:07Yeah, yeah. So, yes, I receive financial help from my father and from my mother to some extent.
00:10:18But, but yeah, not, maybe not emotional, it's, sometimes I feel like I'm more of an emotional help or, but
00:10:25I am trying to, let's say, fix the relationship with my mother and sister, like, rather than she's trying to
00:10:34do it.
00:10:35So, you are right, maybe it's not emotional help.
00:10:38Okay. So, how much money are you getting from your, is it for school? Is that why you're getting money?
00:10:43Hmm. Yes, kind of, because now I have to pay for school, but, um, yes, I, yes, we can say
00:10:53that.
00:10:54And how much is like, uh, $300, something like this.
00:11:03Like a month?
00:11:04Yeah.
00:11:05Okay. So, the value that they're providing is $300 a month.
00:11:11Um, yes.
00:11:13And they're not providing any emotional value.
00:11:16In fact, it sounds like they're pretty stressful to be around.
00:11:20Yes, you are correct.
00:11:22Sometimes it's very stressful to be around them.
00:11:24Okay. So, when was the last time that they provided great value to your life, other than money?
00:11:33Hmm.
00:11:34Can't really remember.
00:11:35I mean, hmm, oh, maybe, uh, sorry, uh, it's blank in my mind right now.
00:11:45Okay.
00:11:47So, your father is in his, uh, how old?
00:11:50Sixties? Do I remember that right?
00:11:51No, fifties.
00:11:53Fifties.
00:11:53Okay. And he's, he's had a new child, right?
00:11:56Right.
00:11:57Okay.
00:11:57And does he want you to be friends with that new child or something like that?
00:12:03Yeah, I guess so, but it's not like he makes effort for us to be friends.
00:12:08Right. Okay.
00:12:11And what do you think of your father's new wife?
00:12:15I barely speak to her.
00:12:17Uh, I don't know her very well, but yeah.
00:12:21Okay. When you were growing up, what was it like with your parents?
00:12:25Um, so with my father, the emotional, emotional connection were never really there, but what
00:12:32you could expect from him was that, you know, he was pretty responsible guy.
00:12:37Uh, like everything was paid for.
00:12:41Everything was like, if he said he would do something, he would do this.
00:12:45If I need him to, I don't know, bring something or, uh, provide something for school or something
00:12:51like this, it was always there, uh, with my mother, it was like, she was someone, someone
00:12:57that maybe I could a bit more talk to, but, uh, at the same time, many times she, let's
00:13:06say used to this against me later on.
00:13:10Uh, uh, another thing was my dad.
00:13:13One of his biggest biases is that he was, he's very cheap man.
00:13:17Like, even though he provides for us, he, it's not so visible now, but when I was younger,
00:13:24it was like, he didn't really want us to spend any money.
00:13:27So my mother was kind of, let's say, if we wanted to go buy something, we should go with
00:13:35my mom, right?
00:13:36Not with my dad.
00:13:38And, uh, uh, uh, let's say daily life was my dad.
00:13:44Um, I remember that he got into sports, so he was doing some sports, like running, going
00:13:50to the, uh, swimming pool, but my mom never really wanted to do anything like this with
00:13:56him.
00:13:56So, and I, when I was younger, I went running with him, but it become like a burden because
00:14:02it was like Saturday morning.
00:14:04So, and if you don't go, then he will be angry because it was like a, you know, contest or
00:14:11something like this.
00:14:12So I really stopped doing this.
00:14:15Uh, I was going to the gym by myself or by the skateboard or whatever, but he didn't really
00:14:20want to join me in those activities.
00:14:23And with my mother, she's not really into any sports or anything.
00:14:28So maybe we could go for a walk or something like this.
00:14:32Okay.
00:14:32And did they provide you valuable moral lessons, life lessons, things that you found that were
00:14:39wise that you still find a value to this day?
00:14:42Uh, yeah, yes, they did.
00:14:44So I would say my mom is kind of a very open person.
00:14:48She taught me like to be nice to everyone, to, uh, that the more good you give away, the
00:14:56more comes back, comes back to you.
00:14:58And my father, I think taught me responsibility and like, uh, maybe some boundaries, maybe some,
00:15:08he, he's quite disciplined.
00:15:10So this is maybe I did not achieve this level of his discipline yet, but maybe because I can
00:15:17look up to his discipline.
00:15:19I'm more motivated to achieve it myself.
00:15:22Uh, okay.
00:15:23So those efficiency things, what about moral lessons, good, evil, right, wrong, that sort
00:15:28of stuff?
00:15:29Yeah.
00:15:29And this is confusing because, uh, I read, I am, I read one and now I'm reading another
00:15:36book of yours.
00:15:36I also listened to a lot of podcasts and this is pretty like chain, changing my view on
00:15:43it.
00:15:43I thought, uh, I thought, so maybe my parents are providing some, uh, moral value, but now
00:15:49I, all I see is like contradictions and what they do and what they say.
00:15:53And like, let's say my, my, my father was always like, uh, we are all Christian, but my
00:16:01father was always like, you have to go to church every Sunday.
00:16:05Hey, uh, I don't know if you need to pray every night or stuff like this.
00:16:11And, uh, I, I think I was already not into that by the age of 13 or something like this.
00:16:18So there was always a problem that I didn't want to go to church on Sunday or stuff like
00:16:23this.
00:16:23And whenever, let's say my mom said, okay, you don't have to go, then he was both mad
00:16:28at me and my mother.
00:16:30Okay.
00:16:30And so there weren't any particular moral lessons, is that right?
00:16:34Uh, yes.
00:16:36All right.
00:16:37So what is your dating life like at the moment?
00:16:41I know this sounds a bit odd, but yeah.
00:16:43What is your dating life?
00:16:44Yes.
00:16:45I'm living with my girlfriend.
00:16:46We've been together for almost four years now.
00:16:51Uh, it's doing okay.
00:16:52Uh, I actually, in the message, I think I included that maybe we can talk about it if
00:16:59we have some time later, but, uh, I think it's, it's, it's good.
00:17:04Yes.
00:17:05Okay.
00:17:06And what does your girlfriend think of your parents?
00:17:09Hmm.
00:17:10She doesn't like my mother.
00:17:12She kind of doesn't mind my father that much, which is weird because I get that she
00:17:18don't like my mother, but I don't really get why she does not equally, let's say disliked
00:17:25my father.
00:17:26Okay.
00:17:27And what does she think of what's going on in the divorce?
00:17:30Yeah.
00:17:30So before, uh, it was very crazy stuff and she was really, uh, like she saw it was crazy
00:17:40because I told her everything and she was really, let's say, she couldn't imagine how
00:17:48my mother can act in this ways.
00:17:50Okay.
00:17:51And do you guys want to have kids?
00:17:53Uh, yes.
00:17:54Uh, I want to have kids.
00:17:56She wants to have kids too, but not right now, which is understandable.
00:18:01She's a bit younger than me.
00:18:02Okay.
00:18:03And does she want your parents to be involved in, uh, your, your children raising kids?
00:18:11Uh, we didn't really talk about this because we, what we talk about is that we want to
00:18:18have kids right now.
00:18:19And maybe I try to convince her why, because I think, you know, there is a lot of stuff that
00:18:26even on some social media, all of this, there is all, there's so much negativity about having
00:18:33children.
00:18:34And I think it discourages a lot of young people.
00:18:38And, uh, sometimes I have to tell, to tell her that maybe the stuff she sees is like, okay,
00:18:45this stuff happens.
00:18:46Okay.
00:18:46Pregnancy is hard.
00:18:48And I know it's, uh, let's say hard things to do for nine months, right?
00:18:53You are handicapped and reliant on, let's say me, but I think it's still worth to have
00:18:59children.
00:18:59So we are on this stage of talks when it comes to parenthood.
00:19:04And what's her family like?
00:19:06Uh, not great also.
00:19:09Uh, so, uh, her, her mother is, let's say, nagging a lot.
00:19:19I don't want to be rude, but yeah, that's true.
00:19:22Uh, and her father has a problem with alcohol.
00:19:27Oh dear.
00:19:28Okay.
00:19:29And what does that look like?
00:19:31Uh, you know, when we, I, I learned it only after like one and a half year of relationship,
00:19:38because I think that was the period when he did not drink and my girlfriend didn't tell
00:19:44me about this right away.
00:19:46And I actually never told me it herself.
00:19:50I have to, I did use it myself.
00:19:52Uh, but since then it's not like, I think it's not like she meant anything wrong.
00:19:57It's like, um, she, she is terrified to talk about this.
00:20:02She gets so sad and it's very hard for her, uh, to even talk about this kind of stuff.
00:20:09Recently, it's been a bit easier, um, but also recently her, her father kind of relapsed.
00:20:17Okay.
00:20:18And what do you think of her parents?
00:20:21Your, your, your view?
00:20:23Um, I think I, if I didn't know about the problem, right, right.
00:20:31The, her father is a good guy.
00:20:32Um, I mean, he, he cares for the children, uh, more than her mother, I think, I think,
00:20:41uh, but yeah, that, you know, you can't really forget about such a big issue.
00:20:47Right.
00:20:47So, um, there is this, and, uh, I think her mother, she, they have something like I have
00:20:58with my father, so their emotional connection is not really there.
00:21:02All right.
00:21:03So again, I, is it that you want to evaluate your relationship with your parents?
00:21:10So, um, maybe it's not, maybe it's how actually it, uh, in what implications it has on my relationship.
00:21:20This, maybe it would be more accurate.
00:21:24Well, your relationship is, uh, there for children, right?
00:21:28Like we have sex drives, we have drives through romance and so on, uh, all as part of having
00:21:34children.
00:21:34So, uh, I'm going to go on the assumption that you guys have children at some point, right?
00:21:39Mm-hmm.
00:21:40So, what do you think of your parents and your girlfriend's parents, what do you think they
00:21:46will be like as grandparents?
00:21:48Do you think they will be good, bad, neutral?
00:21:52I would say neutral, uh, I mean, my parents would be neutral, uh, her mother neutral, but
00:22:00her father, it all depends how it will, um, how it will, how it will, how it will roll with
00:22:06the addiction, right?
00:22:08If he went, if he will go to therapy and it will be.
00:22:13No, no.
00:22:14As, as they are now, not as they might be at some point in the future.
00:22:17As they are now, how would your parents be as grandparents?
00:22:24Um, it's hard to say really, um, uh, I would rather speak for my parents.
00:22:31If that's okay.
00:22:32So I guess my mother would be happy to, I'm not sure if I would be as happy to, um,
00:22:39from
00:22:39our children to be around her unless we solve our issues.
00:22:44I know you ask right now, but right now I can't really imagine this, like it just don't, it
00:22:51won't work because we have so, so many unresolved stuff ourselves that I wouldn't like to, let's
00:22:58say, uh, put my children through this.
00:23:02Okay.
00:23:03Uh, are your parents helpful in your relationship with your girlfriend?
00:23:06Um, no, I mean, my, my father is like, uh, not there.
00:23:15Like he, he doesn't say anything about this.
00:23:18And my mother is, let's say more destructive in this kind of sense than helpful when it
00:23:25comes to my relationship.
00:23:27I mean, they're acting like complete toddlers, aren't they?
00:23:30Yes, yes.
00:23:31Complete toddlers.
00:23:32They are like wasteful with their money on lawyers.
00:23:36They are like, uh, revenge, revenge, revengeful.
00:23:42Uh, yeah, that's a shit show really.
00:23:47Okay.
00:23:48So what is the value other than $300 a month?
00:23:53Um, there is not a lot of it.
00:23:56That's why probably I don't really call them.
00:24:00The thing is, uh, I think I want to keep my relationship with my sister.
00:24:06Well, that's a different matter.
00:24:07We're just talking about your parents.
00:24:10Do your parents have a, uh, have your parents ever apologized for the ugliness of the divorce?
00:24:18No.
00:24:19Have they ever admitted any fault?
00:24:21As parents.
00:24:24Maybe, but it always is, uh, it comes with guilt, right?
00:24:30At least from my mother.
00:24:31And you can't really talk about this stuff.
00:24:33My father, maybe you can, but it's hard.
00:24:36I guess if we never talked about any emotions, why would we do it now?
00:24:42Uh, we only had one talk when I found out he's going to have another child because I reacted
00:24:50kind of emotionally to this and, uh, then he wanted to talk about this with me and let's
00:24:58say we talked, but then, uh, I still don't see how it helped.
00:25:07And what, what has been, what has it been like to have conversations with your mother about
00:25:12these things so recently I'm more like firm and after what I learned from you, uh, I tried
00:25:20to, you know, any stuff when she's trying to manipulate me or I already point, I, I pointed
00:25:28out to her, I, I ran, I had this conversation with hers, like why she married him.
00:25:34Right.
00:25:34And, uh, I feel like a lot of guys that also do calling shows have the same issue that she
00:25:42didn't know.
00:25:43Right.
00:25:43She couldn't have known back then that he's like this or that he will do this or, uh, she
00:25:50thought he was a better man and stuff like this, which I find very hard to believe in.
00:25:55Sorry.
00:25:56Thought he was a what man?
00:25:58Uh, like, because I said, wow, you didn't know he was like cheap.
00:26:03He, uh, you couldn't really have emotional connection with him that, uh, he was so obsessed
00:26:09with going to church and she said, yeah, yeah, maybe it wasn't like this before, uh, it was
00:26:17only after the wedding or stuff like this.
00:26:19So I don't believe this.
00:26:22Okay.
00:26:23So have either of your parents apologized for anything negative they did in your childhood?
00:26:28No, not really.
00:26:30Okay.
00:26:31So help me understand the value of having them in your life.
00:26:36Yes.
00:26:37So now I understand and I don't feel bad with not calling them, but it was a time like this
00:26:43that I was like freaking out.
00:26:46Maybe I couldn't sleep sometime that, hmm, am I like, you know, a bad person for not
00:26:51calling them or for not keeping in touch or for not responding to their texts or something
00:26:58like this.
00:26:59Okay.
00:27:00I mean, that's an interesting question.
00:27:01What do you mean by a bad person?
00:27:05Right.
00:27:06So, you know, because, um, uh, in my country and in my, uh, family, it's like, you know,
00:27:13it's, uh, sacred thing.
00:27:16Family is sacred thing.
00:27:17So, uh, my grandmothers, I like, okay, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on.
00:27:24Sorry.
00:27:25I've heard the speech a million times.
00:27:27Okay.
00:27:28So if family is sacred, why would your parents get divorced?
00:27:32Uh, that's a good question.
00:27:33And my father is so Christian.
00:27:35So I would get divorced, right?
00:27:38And this doesn't make any sense.
00:27:41Uh, but you know, it was okay.
00:27:43So let's, let's not do this family is sacred stuff because the moment your parents get divorced,
00:27:47especially when it's an ugly divorce and they're attacking each other and calling cops and pressing
00:27:53charges, then they can't say that family is sacred anymore.
00:27:57Right.
00:27:58Yes.
00:28:00I mean, I can't, I can't pee on an altar and then say the church is sacred.
00:28:04Right.
00:28:05Right.
00:28:06Okay.
00:28:07So throw that out.
00:28:08What else?
00:28:11Can you remind me of that question?
00:28:12Sorry.
00:28:13You said, am I a bad person?
00:28:15All right.
00:28:16And so you had this family is sacred stuff, but nobody believes that.
00:28:20I mean, well, let me ask you this.
00:28:21You're talking about the wider culture.
00:28:24Have your parents been shunned by all of their friends and family for destroying a marriage?
00:28:31No, actually my father's family.
00:28:34He actually accepted just his new wife.
00:28:36Like it's nothing.
00:28:37And my mother tried to shun my father to everybody she knows.
00:28:45Right.
00:28:45So, so they don't care.
00:28:46In fact, they're fine with your parents having destroyed a family, right?
00:28:50Yeah.
00:28:51Yeah.
00:28:51Also, nobody from my, let's say, more distant family ever called me or my sister asking how
00:28:58we are or anything like this.
00:29:00Has your father been kicked out of his church for destroying the sacred family?
00:29:05It doesn't work like this in my country.
00:29:08It's like, you are not the part.
00:29:10I mean, you can't really be kicked out.
00:29:13Sure you can.
00:29:14What are you talking about?
00:29:16Yeah.
00:29:17Huh.
00:29:18I mean, the priest can say you're not welcome in this church.
00:29:21What are you talking about?
00:29:22It doesn't happen in my, I mean, I don't know.
00:29:25No, no.
00:29:25The priest can do it.
00:29:26I don't know what happens or not.
00:29:28But the priest can say, I mean, if your father was a murderer or a rapist, I'm sure the priest
00:29:35would say you're not welcome in this church.
00:29:39Yeah.
00:29:39You are for sure you're right.
00:29:42He can do it.
00:29:42But I've never heard about any instance like this.
00:29:46No, I get it.
00:29:47So, but I'm just saying that the whole family is sacred thing.
00:29:50It's just bullshit.
00:29:51Nobody, nobody believes it.
00:29:53Nobody acts on it.
00:29:55Yeah.
00:29:56Yeah, that's true.
00:29:57Okay.
00:29:57So, that's why I was sort of impatient with the, but society says that family is sacred.
00:30:04It's like, no, they don't.
00:30:06They just say that shit so the kids will feel bullied into calling them.
00:30:10Okay.
00:30:10Yeah.
00:30:11Yeah.
00:30:11It makes sense because, you know, I don't ask for help really.
00:30:17And sometimes, let's say my mom asks me to, I don't know, buy something.
00:30:22And let's say I forgot to buy her water, right?
00:30:25Like, because let's say it's heavy and, and she asked me to do it and I forget.
00:30:32And then she guilt trips me that I forget to buy her the water and bring it to her place
00:30:37or something like this.
00:30:39Right.
00:30:39Okay.
00:30:39So, what else would it mean to be a bad person for not texting your parents, right?
00:30:47It's got nothing to do with family is sacred and society says, and like, that's the, the
00:30:52society doesn't live that way.
00:30:53That's just completely ridiculous.
00:30:54Right.
00:30:54I would believe that family is sacred if people who for no good reason blew up their families
00:31:00and if they got ostracized, uh, then I would believe that, but nobody does.
00:31:04My mother was never ostracized.
00:31:06My father was never ostracized, uh, and, and nobody cares.
00:31:09So anyone can blow up families and they're perfectly welcome.
00:31:13Everyone can abuse each other, press charges on each other.
00:31:16Everybody's fine and welcome.
00:31:18So let's, so, so there's another reason, I think, as to why you might think that you're
00:31:22a bad person for not texting your parents.
00:31:25It's not to do with the family sacred stuff or what else?
00:31:30Uh, maybe if you know, you can tell me, uh, I, I think I'm just, you know,
00:31:34Well, you, hang on a bit.
00:31:35You said, I'm not trying to catch you out here.
00:31:38Right.
00:31:38But you said, I might, uh, am I a bad person?
00:31:42Oh, I might be a bad person for not texting my parents.
00:31:45Right.
00:31:45Yes.
00:31:46Okay.
00:31:46And I'm just, I'm asking, right?
00:31:48This is Socratic questioning, right?
00:31:50Uh, I might be a bad person, right?
00:31:53For like, if you said, um, I just robbed a gas station.
00:31:56I might be a bad person.
00:31:58I'd be like, well, yeah, cause you know, stealing is wrong.
00:32:00Right.
00:32:02So if you say I, I might be a bad person, I'm fully open to hearing the argument.
00:32:08Okay.
00:32:08So you say I might be a bad person and it would have to be by some standard.
00:32:12Right.
00:32:12Oh, I think I know.
00:32:15Maybe it's because, maybe it's because, you know, all the stuff prior to the divorce seems
00:32:21like I don't care about this because since the divorce day, let's say I lost a lot of
00:32:28respect for them.
00:32:29And that's why maybe I'm kind of torn between all those years when it was, let's say fine
00:32:36and the divorce.
00:32:38And maybe because of this, I feel this regret that it couldn't be normal and that the divorce
00:32:47happened.
00:32:48And that's why maybe if it didn't happen, we could have normal relationship.
00:32:52I don't know.
00:32:52Something like this.
00:32:53Well, I mean, I don't know what that means.
00:32:55If, if somebody wasn't a smoker, they wouldn't have got sick from lung cancer.
00:32:58But they were smokers and they did.
00:33:01So I'm not sure what the, where's the off ramp here?
00:33:04Because they did what they did and that's done.
00:33:07And then they don't regret it and they don't apologize for it.
00:33:10So that's who they are.
00:33:11I mean, if you want to know what is someone like, you look at what they do.
00:33:16Right.
00:33:17Right.
00:33:17Actions are the ultimate window into the personality.
00:33:22Right.
00:33:22So if somebody says, I want to lose weight, but they don't lose weight, then they don't
00:33:26really want to lose weight.
00:33:28So this is who your parents are.
00:33:30It's revealed in two things.
00:33:32One, their choices and two, their justifications.
00:33:36Right.
00:33:36So they have made terrible choices.
00:33:38They've blown up the family.
00:33:39They've attacked each other.
00:33:41They hate each other.
00:33:42They're trying to destroy each other.
00:33:43They're calling the cops.
00:33:44They're funding lawyers.
00:33:45Right.
00:33:46So that's who they are.
00:33:47They can love people.
00:33:49How long were your parents married?
00:33:53Around 20, maybe less than 20 years.
00:33:56Something like this.
00:33:57So they can, maybe they were together for a couple of years beforehand.
00:34:00So, you know, for almost a quarter century, your parents claimed to love each other and
00:34:04now they're trying to destroy each other.
00:34:06Yes.
00:34:07Right.
00:34:07So you're in danger in the long run.
00:34:11Because if they can turn on each other, who else might they turn on?
00:34:14Yes, I experienced that from my mother, I guess.
00:34:19Because, you know, she, whenever I do something she does not like, it's like, oh, you act like
00:34:29your father.
00:34:30Right.
00:34:31Okay.
00:34:31So your parents are dangerous to each other and they're dangerous to you and your girlfriend.
00:34:37Yes.
00:34:38They are what I think what I would refer to as emotional terrorists.
00:34:42Agree with me or I will try to destroy you.
00:34:45Yes, this is for sure valid for my mother.
00:34:48But my dad is like, not there with the emotions.
00:34:52Like, you know, he's like cut off.
00:34:54The only time I remember, he was guilt tripping me because there was this baby, no, baptism of
00:35:04his new child and he invited me to come there and I knew that if I go there, my mother
00:35:10would
00:35:11freak out.
00:35:13But at the same time, I didn't really want to go there, but I also didn't want for him
00:35:19to think that I don't go because my mother doesn't want me to.
00:35:24And this was hard for me to talk to him about this.
00:35:28And, you know, then he, he was like, uh, I think he didn't even consider that I might
00:35:36not want to come because I don't want to come.
00:35:39But he only thought about, I want to come because mom will freak out.
00:35:44Well, but your mother, sorry, your father is trying to attack and harm your mother legally,
00:35:50right?
00:35:51Yes.
00:35:52So he's also kind of vicious that way, if I understand it correctly.
00:35:58Yeah, but I, I, I couldn't, uh, I don't, let's say, excuse him for that, but my mother
00:36:07did like crazy stuff, like stalking type of stuff.
00:36:10And, uh, you know, she went there, she was texting him like every day, few times.
00:36:17And it was like, you know, poems.
00:36:20So, um, yeah, but yeah, it's not acceptable to like charge.
00:36:27But they're both escalating, right?
00:36:28They're both using lawyers and getting more and more angry, right?
00:36:33Yes, but, uh, my mom for sure escalates more.
00:36:38And the lawyer type thing is more about the divorce, the, uh, money.
00:36:44And, uh, yeah, the one, one times he pressed charges, uh, of them damaging the property or
00:36:52something like this.
00:36:52Okay.
00:36:53They also shared a mortgage, mortgage.
00:36:56So this was like, uh, a big, big stuff.
00:37:01Also part of the lawyer, uh, why lawyers are involved.
00:37:07Okay.
00:37:07Got it.
00:37:08All right.
00:37:09And is it mostly settled now or is it still ongoing?
00:37:14It's, uh, it's ongoing, but not for a year or so because there are like a lot of waiting
00:37:22time.
00:37:23Okay.
00:37:25All right.
00:37:26So do your parents show any signs of taking responsibility and being better people?
00:37:36Uh, my father, I don't know, maybe for his new family, he's a better person than he was
00:37:41for our family.
00:37:43Hard to tell.
00:37:43I don't know.
00:37:45Uh, and for my mother, it's roller coaster.
00:37:48Sometimes she's like a good person, but sometimes she's not.
00:37:53So she is not a good person.
00:37:55If you take this into consideration, but, uh, yeah, it's like sometimes she tries to talk.
00:38:02Uh, I suggested therapy, like we could go as free with my mother and my sister, uh, recently
00:38:09we had a long talk.
00:38:11So this was kind of okay because I told her why, let's, let's say what I feel.
00:38:17Uh, I told her about why he chose him and that it is that I don't believe that she didn't
00:38:24knew anything and, uh, I kind of, uh, rant it, uh, and it was okay.
00:38:33It was, let's say maybe a bit productive even, but with my father, I don't think anything like
00:38:39this is possible.
00:38:40And I don't think I would even approach it.
00:38:44Okay.
00:38:45So then your parents won't change.
00:38:48In fact, they'll probably just get worse.
00:38:50Bad behavior tends to get worse over time.
00:38:55It's like if somebody is gaining weight and they don't even think that there's a problem,
00:38:59they're just going to keep gaining weight.
00:39:01Right?
00:39:01Yes.
00:39:03Yes.
00:39:04So I think so the, so the question then is this, if their behavior stays this bad or gets
00:39:12worse, do you want them in your life?
00:39:15If there's no change.
00:39:18Hmm.
00:39:20Uh, yeah, I know I shouldn't want them, but there is something, uh, this feeling that maybe
00:39:30I want them, I don't know how to explain it.
00:39:33Maybe it would be nice to have, you know, parents in your life.
00:39:37Uh, maybe it's maybe if they would, I know they do not put any effort to change themselves.
00:39:47So that's wishful thinking.
00:39:49And with my dad, it's like, okay, we can talk one time a week and it's okay.
00:39:57I mean, we don't really meet anyways, but with my mother, it's, uh, yeah.
00:40:08Okay.
00:40:09So do you want them as they are or if they get worse?
00:40:14No, no.
00:40:15Uh, if I want, I, if I am going to have a relationship with them, they must change.
00:40:21Otherwise I can't see it, uh, in the long run.
00:40:24Okay.
00:40:25And what do they need to change?
00:40:29So for my father, I guess he will need to start, let's say, putting more effort into
00:40:35the relationships, which I don't think he will ever do.
00:40:39So no, no, no, no, no.
00:40:40That's put more effort into their relationships.
00:40:42I don't know what that means.
00:40:44Yeah.
00:40:44Sorry.
00:40:45Measurable, specific and measurable things.
00:40:47He, uh, from what I would expect from him is, uh, maybe try to address the issues, maybe
00:40:55try to talk about the whole thing, why he acted as he acted, why he decided to start
00:41:01a new family and have new, new child, uh, and maybe do some restitution or I don't know,
00:41:10some, you know, after all, he's also my father.
00:41:13So maybe from time to time, like organize something or, uh, invite me even for a workout or whatever.
00:41:22And he's not interested in that.
00:41:25So at least from his actions.
00:41:27Right.
00:41:27And for my mother, I think, uh, yes, she needs to finally, let's say, stop thinking about this
00:41:39divorce thing and maybe if she will, I don't know if it's possible that she will meet somebody
00:41:45new or no, or she will just find peace on her own.
00:41:49Then maybe we can.
00:41:50Okay.
00:41:51That's all, all very, very abstract.
00:41:53You need measurable things.
00:41:55You can't manage what you cannot measure.
00:41:57Right.
00:41:58It's sort of like saying to a sales department, do better.
00:42:02Right.
00:42:02It'd be nice if you guys did better.
00:42:05Okay.
00:42:05So, so I don't know what your answer would be.
00:42:07My answer would be, they need to take responsibility, stop blaming each other, go to therapy and
00:42:13apologize.
00:42:14Yes.
00:42:15Okay.
00:42:15So those would be some practical measurable things, right?
00:42:18Yes.
00:42:19Okay.
00:42:21So they're not going to do that.
00:42:24Yeah.
00:42:25Like they're not going to, people, people don't change in general.
00:42:2899% of people don't change and people don't change in their fifties.
00:42:33And your father in particular is not going to change because his wife and the mother
00:42:39of his second family child likes him the way he is.
00:42:43So why would he change?
00:42:45Yeah.
00:42:46This I realize.
00:42:47Okay.
00:42:49So he, they're not going to change.
00:42:51So if they don't change or they get worse, which is more likely that they'll get worse.
00:42:57Do you want them in your life, not based on who they might be or who they could be, or
00:43:01in some other dimension, what good parents would look like?
00:43:04Do you want them in their life, in your life as they are?
00:43:08No.
00:43:09Well, that's your answer.
00:43:11No.
00:43:12Now, I mean, if you, you want to talk to them, I'm always, I'm always a big fan.
00:43:16If you, if you're uncertain, go talk to them and, you know, say, look, I need you guys
00:43:22to stop blaming each other.
00:43:23I need you to stop wasting money on lawyers.
00:43:25I need you to stop making excuses.
00:43:28I need you to take responsibility and I need you to go to therapy.
00:43:32I'm trying to do this with my mother.
00:43:36Hang on.
00:43:36You can't, you can't try to do it.
00:43:38All you can do, you, you have 100% control over what you do and 0% control over what
00:43:46other
00:43:47people do.
00:43:48So if people say, I'm trying to get my brother to stop drinking, or I'm trying to get my aunt
00:43:54to stop smoking.
00:43:55It's like, well, there's no trying.
00:43:56What you do is you say, you should stop drinking and you should stop smoking.
00:44:01And here's why.
00:44:02And you have a hundred percent.
00:44:04You don't have to try to do that.
00:44:05You just do it or don't do it.
00:44:07Does that make sense?
00:44:08Yes.
00:44:09And then the other person, which is out of your control, listens or doesn't listen, but
00:44:15there's no trying involved.
00:44:17If that makes sense.
00:44:18Yes.
00:44:19It's like saying, I'm trying to give $10 to a homeless guy.
00:44:24You don't try to, right?
00:44:26You say, here's $10.
00:44:26He says yes, or he says no, but you don't try to give $10 to a homeless guy and you
00:44:32don't
00:44:32try to change people.
00:44:33You 100% say, here's what you need to change and here's why.
00:44:38And they either listen or they don't.
00:44:40But there's no, I'm sorry to be an annoying nag about this, but there's no trying involved
00:44:45because trying sounds like it's on you.
00:44:47No.
00:44:47You tell them, here's what I need to have a good relationship with you.
00:44:51They do it or they don't.
00:44:52But there's no trying, if that makes sense.
00:44:55Yes, yes.
00:44:56I actually had this explained to me before about trying.
00:45:00So, sorry for using this expression.
00:45:02I understand why it's not.
00:45:04Well, because it's a public call, I have to make sure I don't let that one slip by.
00:45:08Sorry.
00:45:09Go ahead.
00:45:09Yes, yes, yes.
00:45:10Yes.
00:45:11Sorry for using it.
00:45:12Okay.
00:45:13So, that's your answer.
00:45:14If you accept that they won't change and they won't, I mean, they haven't even admitted
00:45:20there's a problem.
00:45:20So, your father hasn't come to you and said, you know, I've really been mean to your mom.
00:45:25I've been blaming her for a lot of stuff.
00:45:27It's really not fair.
00:45:29I chose her.
00:45:29After all, I chose to spend 20 years with her.
00:45:32I can't say that she changed so completely that she turned from someone I loved into someone
00:45:39I hate.
00:45:40There's something wrong with me.
00:45:41There's something wrong with my perspective.
00:45:43I mean, let's say that your mother had some brain injury or a stroke or something like
00:45:49that, and then she just became a different person.
00:45:52I mean, I suppose it could happen, right?
00:45:54Mm-hmm.
00:45:55Well, then you wouldn't hate her.
00:45:57It would just be like, okay, she's lost her part of her brain, and so she's not the same
00:46:03person that she used to be.
00:46:05Yeah.
00:46:06But you wouldn't press charges.
00:46:08You wouldn't sue her.
00:46:10You wouldn't, like, you'd just say, oh, okay, so she's really damaged, right?
00:46:13Yes.
00:46:14You know, if my best friend, I play tennis with him, and if he breaks his arm and he can't
00:46:19play tennis, I don't hate him.
00:46:21I'm just like, oh, I'm sorry, you've got an injury, you know?
00:46:24Right.
00:46:24And so your mother didn't suffer any big brain injury, is that right?
00:46:29Your father didn't suffer any big brain injury?
00:46:31No.
00:46:32Right.
00:46:32So they're the same people they always were.
00:46:34Or they've just gone from loving each other to hating each other, which is a perspective
00:46:38change, and it's around blaming the other person for everything that goes wrong without
00:46:43taking any responsibility.
00:46:45It's putting yourself in the position of a child with a bad parent, right?
00:46:49So if you're a child and you've got a bad parent, I mean, there's nothing really you
00:46:52can do.
00:46:53I mean, you're just stuck there, right?
00:46:55You're just stuck there.
00:46:56You're like the guy in The Count of Monte Cristo.
00:46:58You know, his enemies hate him, and they just get him thrown in jail, and he's just stuck
00:47:01there, right?
00:47:02So that's the reality.
00:47:05So your parents are pretending that they are children, and that the other parent is an
00:47:10unchosen, brutal adult, and so they're regressing.
00:47:15And this happens to people.
00:47:17Immaturity is just pretending you're a child and helpless, and then this allows you to take
00:47:22all kinds of vengeance, right?
00:47:23So people pretend that they're victims so that they can be aggressive.
00:47:26It's a very common phenomenon, of course, as you know.
00:47:28So your parents don't even admit that there's a problem.
00:47:31They don't even sit there and say, gee, I loved this person.
00:47:35I had children with this person.
00:47:36I said I was going to love this person forever.
00:47:39Now I hate them.
00:47:40What is wrong with me?
00:47:41What have I done that is incorrect in my thinking?
00:47:43They don't say that.
00:47:45They're self-justified.
00:47:46It's all the other person's fault.
00:47:47They're bastards.
00:47:48He's an asshole.
00:47:49Whatever they say, right?
00:47:50So they're not going to change.
00:47:52And I don't believe it's worth being in relationships in the hopes that people will change.
00:47:57It's wrong.
00:47:58It is wrong to be in relationships in the mad hope that people will change.
00:48:02It's actually kind of cruel because you are not in a relationship with the person.
00:48:09It's kind of a narcissistic.
00:48:10I'm not calling you a narcissist, right?
00:48:12But it's kind of a narcissistic relationship.
00:48:15If you're with someone because you can imagine them being the opposite of who they are, it would be like
00:48:22if a woman dates an artist and continually tries to talk him into being an accountant.
00:48:29And she's like, hey, man, they both start with A.
00:48:31Maybe you can be an astronaut, too.
00:48:34So that would be kind of cruel, right?
00:48:35And she would be then in a relationship with her own fantasy rather than with the person.
00:48:39When you're in a relationship, you should be in a relationship with the person as he or she is, not
00:48:47in your fantasy of who they could be.
00:48:51And so if you like people for who they are, great.
00:48:57If you don't like who they are, you can certainly give them some requirements.
00:49:01If they don't meet those requirements, you're under no obligation to stay.
00:49:05What I don't want is for people, you, of course, but people as a whole, don't be in relationships on
00:49:11the fantasy that people will be magically different from who they are.
00:49:14So that's selfish, and it's kind of cruel, and it certainly is not very productive.
00:49:19I mean, I assume that you don't want your girlfriend to be the opposite of who she is.
00:49:25No.
00:49:26Right.
00:49:27It would be the same as saying, well, I'm dating a short woman, but I'll only commit when she becomes
00:49:33one foot taller.
00:49:35That would be kind of cruel, right?
00:49:37All right.
00:49:38If you don't mind, can we shift to talk a bit about my girlfriend?
00:49:46It's kind of related to what you've been talking about, no?
00:49:51So.
00:49:52Well, hang on.
00:49:53Hang on.
00:49:53See, I'm a little annoyed here.
00:49:56Yes.
00:49:57I don't know whether what I provided was of any value to you or not.
00:50:01I just spent, like, what, an hour talking to you about your parents, and I give you the final speech.
00:50:06And you're like, I want to switch to my girlfriend.
00:50:08I don't know if I did anything valuable.
00:50:10I don't know if it means anything to you.
00:50:12I don't know if it matters to you.
00:50:13It's kind of weird, isn't it?
00:50:15Yes.
00:50:15Sorry for that.
00:50:16You are right.
00:50:18But hang on.
00:50:18What happened just there?
00:50:21I was being selfish.
00:50:23No, no.
00:50:23That's fine.
00:50:24But I'm not looking for a label.
00:50:26I'm trying to understand the mechanic.
00:50:28I think what you said triggered something in my mind about my relationship with my girlfriend.
00:50:35Okay.
00:50:36And that, yes.
00:50:39So, yes, thank you.
00:50:40It was valuable to me.
00:50:42And it makes perfect sense what you said about it's not being okay to be in a relationship with somebody.
00:50:50And wishing they will change, because we are not really with them in the relationship.
00:50:59And why it triggered me is because I, let's say, gave my girlfriend this kind of requirements, what I can't
00:51:08accept in the relationship.
00:51:09And it has to do with jealousy.
00:51:13And this jealousy also concerns my family.
00:51:17So, my girlfriend is jealous of me and of my relationship with my mother and sister, which I find a
00:51:30bit weird.
00:51:34Because it's not perfect, as you know, and okay, maybe it's better with my sister, but with my mother, I
00:51:41don't understand why is she jealous of her.
00:51:43I understand her, why she don't like her or maybe why she wouldn't want to spend time with her.
00:51:53But I don't understand why would she be jealous of, let's say, me doing anything with my mother or my
00:52:02sister.
00:52:05Okay, so, and the reason I had to pause earlier was because if I wasn't giving you useful advice regarding
00:52:12your parents, I would not believe I could give you useful advice regarding your girlfriend, right?
00:52:20Yes.
00:52:21I mean, if you came in with two sore elbows, and I spent an hour massaging one elbow, and you
00:52:26said, just switch to the other elbow.
00:52:28I don't know if I'm, you're switching because I'm not doing anything good, right?
00:52:31Okay. No, you are doing good, thank you.
00:52:34Okay, I appreciate that.
00:52:36Okay, so, is she more upset when you spend time with your mother or with your sister?
00:52:42It used to be both. Now I think it's with my sister, and this is my assumption, if you don't
00:52:50mind.
00:52:51She has a poor relationship with her brother, and they used to be separated as children.
00:52:58And I had a pretty good relationship with my sister, so now I think she's jealous of that, and also...
00:53:09I'm sorry, is that what she has said?
00:53:13She agreed with that. I said that to her, that this is probably the reason, and she agreed.
00:53:21Okay. So, she's jealous because you have a better relationship with your brother than she has, sorry, with your sister
00:53:29than she has with her brother?
00:53:31Yes.
00:53:32Okay. And is there anything that she could do to improve her relationship with her brother?
00:53:41I tell her that, that maybe be, like, a bit nicer to him, even though she's not always nice.
00:53:48I mean, he's...
00:53:54He's a pretty special guy, let's say.
00:53:58He's very intelligent when it comes to, you know, maths, physics, stuff like this, but he's not very emotionally intelligent.
00:54:07So, he hurts her, and he's often being mean to her, or he has a bad mood, and therefore will
00:54:16act weird to her.
00:54:20And, yeah, I think he tries. He also cares about their, let's say, sibling relationship. So, I believe there is
00:54:28a room for improvement in their relationship.
00:54:32Okay, hang on. So, does her brother... Is he older or younger?
00:54:38Younger.
00:54:38Okay. How much younger?
00:54:40Like, two years.
00:54:42Okay, so she said she was younger than you, so is he, like, late teens, early 20s?
00:54:47He, he's just 18 this year.
00:54:50Okay, does he...
00:54:52Last year, last year.
00:54:52Okay, does he acknowledge that he has any problems in relationships, like perhaps being a little mean or something like
00:54:59that?
00:55:00Not to me directly. I heard from his grandmother that he did once to her.
00:55:08No, no, I'm... I mean, maybe once, maybe this, maybe that. I mean, that's an ongoing thing.
00:55:13Does he say, I may have a problem with being a little mean to people, and, you know, everyone has
00:55:20that potential, and we're all a little mean every now and then.
00:55:23It's not necessarily the end of the world, of course, right?
00:55:26So, does he have an acknowledgement that he has a bit of a temper and needs to improve?
00:55:33I never heard it, and nor did my girlfriend.
00:55:37Okay. Does your girlfriend have any acknowledgement of things that she can improve in how she relates to him?
00:55:51I think she... it's hard to tell what she thinks, but she never told me anything like this.
00:55:58What do you mean, it's hard to tell what she thinks? You've been living together for years.
00:56:03Yes, okay.
00:56:05She's not, she's not some hemorrhobic code that you have to crack with the help of Indiana Jones. She's someone
00:56:12you live with.
00:56:15Yes. I think she needs... my God, how to say it?
00:56:20She could be nicer to him, too. She could not react with so many negative emotions to what he says
00:56:33or does.
00:56:33Sometimes, like, she's just overreacting to stuff, even though maybe it wasn't that mean, or she, like, takes it personally
00:56:48or stuff like this.
00:56:50Okay, so there's things that she can do that would be better in the relationship, right?
00:56:56Yes.
00:56:57Okay, and is she working to improve those? Is she doing self-knowledge, talking to therapy, or maybe getting advice
00:57:03from you?
00:57:03If you have some skills in this area?
00:57:07Yes, she used to do therapy. She had to stop because it was quite expensive, and, you know, we live
00:57:14on our own, and we are quite young, so we don't have that much money.
00:57:20But, yeah, we talk about this stuff. I tell her what I heard from you, what I learned from you.
00:57:27I encourage her to listen to your podcasts. Whenever I find some podcasts that can be relatable to her, I
00:57:35recommend it to her.
00:57:36She sometimes does listen to those.
00:57:40So, yes, maybe this is not the thing we talk about most, like, improving her relationship with her brother.
00:57:50We are more focused on improving our own relationship, but I believe, yes, she would like to improve it.
00:57:59Okay. I also will confess to being a little annoyed. It doesn't mean you're being annoying. I'm just a little
00:58:04annoyed.
00:58:05Because you said, I want to talk about things with my girlfriend, and you said, my girlfriend is jealous when
00:58:10I spend time with my sister.
00:58:11And then I said, well, what's the problem with her relationship with her brother? Because apparently that's the jealous.
00:58:16That's where the jealousy is coming from. And then you said, well, this isn't particularly an important issue, or we
00:58:22don't talk about it much.
00:58:24Hmm. Right. You are right. You are right.
00:58:31I really don't know what to say more, because if we diagnosed this, and then I tell her what she
00:58:38might do to maybe make her relationship with him better,
00:58:43and ultimately it's up to her if she wants to make it better or not.
00:58:48But then we find ourselves in the same situation again of her being jealous of me spending time with my
00:58:56sister, or even less than that,
00:58:58then I don't know what to tell you.
00:59:01Okay. Does she view her jealousy as a problem?
00:59:05Yes, but actions do not always align with what happens later, because let's say we have a small fight,
00:59:16we explain this stuff, we talk about this, she acknowledges it, and we agree on that, that it is a
00:59:22problem, that it's not okay.
00:59:24And she said that I am right, it's not okay, that she will work on it, and then it happens
00:59:31again.
00:59:34Okay. So, you spend time with your sister, and your girlfriend gets upset.
00:59:40And this is like you spending time with your dad and your mother getting upset, right?
00:59:44Right.
00:59:46So, she says, I shouldn't get upset if you have a good time with your sister, right?
00:59:51Yes, and it's not like even we have a lot of time together, let's say, excluding her or anything like
00:59:57this,
00:59:57but she gets upset that she called me or something like this.
01:00:02Okay.
01:00:04So, how often do you interact with your sister?
01:00:08Like, once, twice a week, we text or call, and sometimes we meet when we visit my mother.
01:00:15Often, she's like a part of that, I mostly visit my mother with her.
01:00:19Sometimes, I go alone, then she's not there, obviously.
01:00:22And when I talk to my sister, it's, you know, she doesn't participate in that.
01:00:28Okay. So, how many, if you were to say, is it half an hour a week with your sister, an
01:00:34hour, two hours, five hours that she spent on the phone, texting, or maybe visiting?
01:00:39So, like two hours a week.
01:00:42Okay.
01:00:45And when she says she feels jealous, how does she put it? What does she say?
01:00:51She's just angry at me, like, she's changing her tone and asking, like, questions, like, the question feels like it
01:01:02is infused with guilt, so, oh, you spoke to your sister, or something like this.
01:01:08And it's not really like she says, oh, I don't like you speaking with her, or it's just, like, the
01:01:14series of questions, it sometimes feel like interrogation or stuff, like, wow, what did you tell me?
01:01:21What did you guys talk about?
01:01:23Oh, cool, cool.
01:01:24Something like, it's not really, like, it seems innocent, but, you know, I know her because I live with her
01:01:31for four years, and she changes her tone.
01:01:34She's not as soft and nice as she is, like, usually, and this is visible, and I tell her that,
01:01:42and then I get angry because, you know, we can have perfectly normal day, everything is lovely,
01:01:49and then she changes her attitude when this stuff happens, and I get angry because I don't understand why would
01:01:58she, like, you know, I feel disappointed that this stuff is, let's say, is causing our relationship to suffer.
01:02:11Okay, so she has admitted that it's a problem.
01:02:14Yes.
01:02:15And when you say, so when people say that there's a problem, that they have a problem, then they're responsible
01:02:22for changing it.
01:02:24That's true.
01:02:25Okay, so, with your girlfriend, she says that it's a problem, and therefore, when you say, hey, you're doing that
01:02:33thing that you've already said is a problem, what is she supposed to do?
01:02:38Take action to change it, and say sorry.
01:02:42Right.
01:02:43So, if in the moment you say, you're doing that thing, then she has to say, oh, yeah, you know,
01:02:50you're right, I'm sorry, let's reset, and does she do that?
01:02:54No, it escalates, then she stops talking to me, and then she says sorry, and it's like a cycle.
01:03:01Okay.
01:03:02And has she admitted that that's a problem?
01:03:05Yes.
01:03:06Okay.
01:03:07And is she working on that?
01:03:09Yes, I must say, our relationship has been better now.
01:03:15It's not perfect.
01:03:17It's not perfect now, but yes, it's getting better, I would say.
01:03:23I think it's because now I can better reason with her because I can actually provide logical arguments and, let's
01:03:34say, lead the conversation for her to understand that what she's doing is not okay, and this is thanks to
01:03:41you.
01:03:41So, I really appreciate what you do, and before that, I used to be avoidant, I would shut down, I
01:03:51mean, I would stop talking to her, I would get very angry, and then she will start talking even more,
01:03:57and it would be a big fight.
01:03:59Now, I think I'm, I get, still, I get irritated, and I get angry when she's talking in this mean,
01:04:09disrespectful tone towards me, but I still find this peace in myself to, let's say, argument why what she does
01:04:20is wrong, and make her feel that I care about our relationship.
01:04:24And I think she also notices it, so, now...
01:04:27Okay, so, yeah, spending a lot of time telling me what's going right is probably not a great use of
01:04:31time, but I appreciate that feedback.
01:04:33So, what are the virtues that you admire in your girlfriend?
01:04:36What are her morals?
01:04:38She's loyal, she's...
01:04:40No, no, you can't say that she gets mad at me for spending time with my sister, and she's loyal.
01:04:49Those two don't fit together.
01:04:51Can you explain to me, sorry, I'm not...
01:04:54Well, loyal means that she puts your needs and interests first, but she's putting her own anxiety and neurosis first
01:05:00at your expense.
01:05:02Oh, right.
01:05:03I didn't think about this this way.
01:05:06Okay, so, and I'm not saying she's not loyal, but it can't be one of her primary virtues, because loyalty
01:05:11is when you put someone's interests first.
01:05:14You're loyal to them, it's consistent.
01:05:16But if she puts her own anxiety and neurosis ahead of your happiness and well-being and reason, then that's
01:05:24not loyal to you.
01:05:26So, what else?
01:05:31She's like disciplined, she's ambitious, she's...
01:05:36Not morals, not morals.
01:05:38Those aren't morals.
01:05:39I mean, they're not bad, obviously.
01:05:41But, you know, a serial killer who cleans up the crime scene is disciplined, right?
01:05:47Like, all right, right.
01:05:49So, I would say, like, honest.
01:05:55She's honest with me.
01:05:56She does not lie to me.
01:05:58She does not lie to me.
01:05:59Hang on, hang on.
01:06:00So, if she's honest, this is why I was asking about if she says, yes, I have a problem with
01:06:05jealousy, right?
01:06:06Then, if she's honest, she would work to stop that from ever starting.
01:06:12And if it did start, she would say, oh, no, no, you're right.
01:06:15I did say that, right?
01:06:16But if she still lets herself get angry and then only apologizes later, then that's not honest.
01:06:23Because you say you have a problem with this, and she says, yes, yes, I have a problem with this.
01:06:27And the problem starts to manifest.
01:06:29I'm so jealous.
01:06:30And you say, hey, wait, you already said you had a problem with this.
01:06:32Then, if she's honest, she would say, you're right, I did admit that, I need to control this, it's not
01:06:38your fault, right?
01:06:40But instead, she lets herself, how long is she angry before she apologizes?
01:06:46Not long.
01:06:46If we quarrel in the evening, then by morning it's already all right.
01:06:50But sometimes it's, like, maybe half an hour or something.
01:06:54So, between a half hour and 12 hours.
01:06:56Yes.
01:06:57Okay.
01:06:58Okay.
01:07:00So, I'm not saying she's dishonest, but that's, you know, where you're saying to me, this is not honesty.
01:07:06Okay, so, maybe.
01:07:07So, what else?
01:07:10So, I know maybe it's not much, but I never felt like I have to worry that she will, I
01:07:16don't know, ditch me for other guy or, that I, I know you said it's not honesty, but I feel
01:07:24like I can trust her and I feel supported by her.
01:07:29Okay.
01:07:30So, but, but that's after the relationship, right?
01:07:33So, what, did she have morals or virtues that drew you to her four years ago?
01:07:40I guess, back then, it was like, we didn't have those jealousy issues.
01:07:45It was like one year of almost no quarrels at all.
01:07:50So, yeah, that didn't answer my question, though.
01:07:53What were the virtues and morals that drew you to her?
01:07:56I mean, how long have you been listening to what I do?
01:07:59A few months.
01:08:00A few months.
01:08:01Okay.
01:08:01So, my definition of love is it is our emotional response to virtue.
01:08:08Yes.
01:08:09That we love virtue.
01:08:10And, you know, it's nice if they're sexy and attractive and there's nothing wrong with all of that sort of
01:08:15stuff, but relationships are sustained on virtues.
01:08:19Because virtues tend to grow over the course of life and that compensates for the physical deterioration is that I
01:08:26love my wife more now than when we met 24 years ago.
01:08:32So, because she and I have grown in virtue, though we don't look like we did 25 years ago or
01:08:3824 years ago, right?
01:08:39So, relationships are based on virtue.
01:08:43Love is our admiration of virtue.
01:08:46So, that's what I'm asking about is when you met four years ago, when you were 20 and she was,
01:08:53I don't know, 18 or 19, what virtues of hers did you admire?
01:09:00It was basically the same stuff, but even more because back then she used to...
01:09:05Oh, you can't, you can't, logically you can't admire loyalty before you're in a relationship unless she was hugely loyal
01:09:11to other people.
01:09:14You can't say, well, I now have four years evidence of her loyalty and that's why I was attracted to
01:09:20her in the first place.
01:09:21Because in the first place there was no loyalty to you because you weren't in a relationship yet.
01:09:25So, you mean before we engaged in a relationship?
01:09:28You met her.
01:09:30I assume you were attracted to her and all of that and there's nothing wrong with that.
01:09:35But what were the virtues that you admired in her?
01:09:40Yeah, so...
01:09:43We...
01:09:44So, she didn't go to parties like other of my friends.
01:09:49She was going to gym as I did.
01:09:55She was...
01:09:56When I first asked her out, we had a little chat and I enjoyed the conversation.
01:10:04Then we started to meet and she was...
01:10:10She was being...
01:10:12How to say...
01:10:15Like, I felt good in her company.
01:10:18We always had staff to talk to.
01:10:21I felt that we both made each other a better person.
01:10:28Also, there were no jealousy issues.
01:10:31So, she was having a good time with me and let's say we could hang out with my family, with
01:10:38her family.
01:10:39We would go visit her grandparents.
01:10:43They liked me too.
01:10:44I liked them.
01:10:47We would spend a lot of time...
01:10:48Okay, so hang on.
01:10:49So, she liked your family?
01:10:52Yes.
01:10:53Actually, in the beginning, it was like she preferred to stay with my family than with hers.
01:10:58Okay.
01:10:59So, she liked your family, which means...
01:11:01You know, I can understand this.
01:11:03I sympathize.
01:11:04She was still young.
01:11:05But she's not a very good judge of character.
01:11:07Yes, it was before the divorce.
01:11:10So, yes.
01:11:12Okay.
01:11:13And has she...
01:11:14What has her experience been of seeing your family melt down in this horrible way?
01:11:23She was there for me.
01:11:25Sometimes she was getting angry with what my mom did and telling me that and was right.
01:11:35And I feel like she excused my father a bit, which I told you in the beginning, which I found
01:11:44a bit weird.
01:11:47And, yeah, basically we moved out together and, yeah, she was there with me.
01:11:54She was supporting me through the divorce when I was getting, like, I wanted to talk to her about this.
01:12:01Okay, sorry, sorry.
01:12:02So, how long after you started dating did you move in together?
01:12:09It was around one...
01:12:12More than one year, for sure.
01:12:14Okay.
01:12:14So, you were dating for a year and you've been living together for four years?
01:12:19No, no.
01:12:20We've been living together for three years or maybe a bit less than three years.
01:12:24Also, I was abroad for half a year alone.
01:12:27Okay.
01:12:28So, basically six months of in-person dating and then you moved in together and...
01:12:32No, no, no.
01:12:33No, no, because you said you were abroad for six months.
01:12:37But it was after we moved in, then I moved abroad and then we moved in together again.
01:12:43Okay, sorry.
01:12:44My apologies.
01:12:45I misunderstood.
01:12:46Okay.
01:12:46All right.
01:12:47So, is she religious?
01:12:49No.
01:12:50And you are not religious, right?
01:12:52No.
01:12:53So, why would you move in with her but not marry her?
01:12:58I don't think it is a good idea to move in with somebody that...
01:13:03I mean, to marry someone you haven't lived with before.
01:13:07But it's a bad idea.
01:13:09I mean, statistically, you're more likely to break up if you don't get married before you live together.
01:13:15Oh, really?
01:13:16If you don't get...
01:13:16Yeah, if you don't get...
01:13:17Yeah, if you live together without being married, you're more likely to break up.
01:13:20Oh.
01:13:22Huh.
01:13:23Yes, but on the other hand...
01:13:25Hang on.
01:13:25Did her father sit you down and say, well, why aren't you marrying my daughter?
01:13:33Why do you just want to live with her?
01:13:35No.
01:13:36Okay.
01:13:36So, she's not getting good advice.
01:13:39Because if somebody wanted to shack up with my daughter but not marry her, we'd have words.
01:13:45Like, she's good enough to live with but she's not good enough to marry?
01:13:48Why?
01:13:49Why not?
01:13:49What's wrong with her?
01:13:51What's missing?
01:13:54Yeah.
01:13:55This is very...
01:13:57Are you aiming to get married?
01:13:58Do you want to get married?
01:14:00Yes.
01:14:01And when are you getting married?
01:14:02It's been four years.
01:14:04Yes.
01:14:05This is another thing I wanted to talk to you about because...
01:14:09Well, I don't want to pile too many issues into one call.
01:14:12So, just give me the brief synopsis as to why you haven't...
01:14:17Have you proposed?
01:14:19No, not yet.
01:14:20Okay.
01:14:21Does she want you to propose?
01:14:23I think it's like...
01:14:25It's not...
01:14:29Yes, but not now, maybe.
01:14:32Maybe.
01:14:33Okay.
01:14:33So, have you guys talked about getting married?
01:14:35Yes, I talked to her about this but I said that I want us to resolve these issues before
01:14:42we do it.
01:14:44So, that's the issues I talked to you about which were that jealousy issues and this change
01:14:53of tone when she does not like something I do.
01:14:57Okay.
01:14:58So, she's good enough to live with and have sex with but she's not good enough to marry.
01:15:03Hmm.
01:15:05Obviously, I wouldn't say that but this is what it looks like, right?
01:15:08Well, again, I don't...
01:15:10I mean, I just judge by the actions, right?
01:15:12Yes.
01:15:14Okay.
01:15:15I mean, how do you think she experiences that?
01:15:17That he'll have sex with me, I'll make his meals but he won't marry me because I'm not
01:15:21good enough for that.
01:15:22But, uh, it's not like this, I mean, uh, I'm making a lot of meals too.
01:15:28Sorry, I don't want to sound defensive.
01:15:30Uh, I truly think she, she, I don't know, maybe, like, she would be very surprised.
01:15:38Okay, let's try it, let's try it another way.
01:15:40You become a father and a guy shacks up with your daughter but won't marry her because she's
01:15:46not good enough to marry.
01:15:48How do you feel?
01:15:50Bad, right?
01:15:52I don't know.
01:15:53How would you feel?
01:15:55Uh, but I would feel that if there are some, I didn't know, so I'm surprised to find out
01:16:02that it is actually not a good idea to leave before marriage and, uh...
01:16:09But you would look these things up.
01:16:11You're an intelligent guy, right?
01:16:12Yes.
01:16:13And when you said that, um, those couples often break up more often, uh, I think it's
01:16:21maybe because they can find out stuff that they do not like about each other while living
01:16:29together and maybe later on they can save themselves from divorce because they can break
01:16:36up before even getting married.
01:16:38Okay, so, so that's fine.
01:16:40So you want to test drive the car, right?
01:16:43To see if you want to buy it.
01:16:45Okay, so what kind of car dealership is going to let you test drive a car for three years
01:16:51and still not decide to buy it?
01:16:54Yeah, this is a good point.
01:16:56Hmm.
01:16:58I mean, in my view, and I can't solve this one, you know, in the time that we have, but
01:17:04I would say just have a conversation with your girlfriend and say, what is it that we
01:17:10want?
01:17:10Do we want to marry?
01:17:13Do we want to have children?
01:17:14When?
01:17:15Uh, how does it feel that we're not married yet?
01:17:17Maybe she doesn't want to get married.
01:17:19I don't know.
01:17:20But I think have that conversation.
01:17:23Okay.
01:17:24And then if you say to her, listen, you're too immature and volatile for me to marry, but
01:17:30I'm happy to keep living with you and having sex with you.
01:17:34I mean, I don't know.
01:17:35I mean, that's horrible, isn't it?
01:17:38I'll use you for sex and companionship, but no, no, you're too, you're too immature and
01:17:44broken and volatile to marry.
01:17:46Then you're just wasting her time.
01:17:49And women have a short runway if they want to have kids, right?
01:17:52Because if it's going to work out with you guys, get married.
01:17:54If it's not going to work out with you guys, please God above, release her back into the
01:17:58dating market so she can find a guy and get married.
01:18:04But this Groundhog Day of just same day over and over again, just kind of drifting along.
01:18:10I mean, I've done it, so I'm not trying to come down on you like some bad guy, but it's
01:18:16not good.
01:18:19You have no time because you're a man, but she has short time because she's a woman, right?
01:18:27So if it doesn't work out with you guys, right, it's going to take her a couple of years to
01:18:31get over it, puts her at 25, then she's got to start looking for a guy.
01:18:34A lot of the good guys are taken, 26, 27, you know, like her time goes by.
01:18:41Can I tell you what we talked about this in context of marriage and children?
01:18:46Well, I do know that you're not resolved.
01:18:49So what you did talk about, it's not resolved.
01:18:52You haven't figured out any of these things with any particular resolution in detail.
01:18:57So what you did talk about is not particularly relevant to the question of, is it resolved
01:19:03what you're going to do?
01:19:04Is she fully aware that every time she gets angry at you regarding your sister, that that
01:19:12marriage ring gets further away?
01:19:15I don't believe she even thinks about it.
01:19:18No, no, haven't you told her?
01:19:20You've told her that you're too volatile in your jealousy, so I can't marry you.
01:19:24Isn't that what you're saying?
01:19:24Sorry if I misunderstood.
01:19:25Yes, this, this, I told her that I want to marry her.
01:19:29So, so, hang on.
01:19:30So if you've told her, I won't marry you because you're too jealous, then every time she gets
01:19:38jealous and doesn't restrain herself, she's saying, I don't want to marry you.
01:19:43Right.
01:19:44Right.
01:19:44I mean, if, if, if your boss says, if you steal one more pencil, you're going to get
01:19:48fired and you steal one more pencil, then it means you want to get fired, right?
01:19:52Yeah.
01:19:54So if you've said to her clearly, this jealousy is a deal breaker, I won't marry you.
01:19:58And then she continues with the jealousy.
01:20:00It means that she doesn't particularly want to get married either.
01:20:03And you're both just kind of wasting time.
01:20:04I think this is possible because, uh, I didn't like feel like,
01:20:12she is expecting me to propose, you know?
01:20:15Right.
01:20:16So if I were in your shoes, I would sit down and have that conversation.
01:20:19Like, what are we doing here?
01:20:21Are we aiming to marriage?
01:20:23Are we aiming to kids?
01:20:24Right.
01:20:25What, what, what make a list of all the things that need to get solved for you to get married
01:20:29and then either work to solve them or don't get married and don't stay together because
01:20:33the purpose of living together is marriage and children.
01:20:36If that makes sense.
01:20:38Yes.
01:20:40Okay.
01:20:40Good, good, good.
01:20:42Okay.
01:20:42Well, listen, I hope you'll keep me posted about how it's going.
01:20:45And I certainly would love to hear.
01:20:47And if there's anything I can do with your girlfriend, if she speaks, uh, reasonable English,
01:20:53I'd be, be happy to help.
01:20:54And, and I really do appreciate your call to your time today.
01:20:58Uh, thank you.
01:20:59Yes.
01:20:59And thank you for this opportunity.
01:21:01I will keep you posted.
01:21:02You're very welcome.
01:21:04Take care.
01:21:05Bye, bye.
01:21:06Bye.
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