- 2 days ago
This edition of To The Point covers political developments and civic issues in India ahead of the upcoming monsoon session of parliament.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Previewing, you're watching To The Point. I'm Preeti Chaudhary.
00:02Dramatic developments taking place in the state of Maharashtra with late-night meetings.
00:08But what would be the impact of these political meetings when it comes down to the monsoon session
00:14where the government is eyeing two-third majority to pass two crucial bills?
00:19All of that coming up. Allow me to take you through the headlines first.
00:26Big boost to government over delimitation bill.
00:28Shalatpawar Camp Maybach delimitation bill sets 50% seat-high condition.
00:34Realignment buzz grows in Maharashtra.
00:45There's been another custodial death in Tamil Nadu.
00:48Man found dead inside Nagarkoil Prison.
00:51Proof of Tamil Nadu police brutality out in the open.
00:54Autopsy shows multiple abrasions, bruises.
00:57Injuries on right leg and left ankle.
01:05UP Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath attracts the Congress and Samajwadi party on a Nachita platform
01:12as looters of coffers now cry over Chanda Chori.
01:15Slams past government stress.
01:17They insulted faith in Hindu Asuka.
01:25Move by centre to make children safer.
01:28The government has proposed age-appropriate sex education in schools
01:31with NCRT set to prepare a curriculum from class 6 onwards.
01:45Well, this could be relief coming in for actor Vijay.
01:49After months of delay, Jananayagan to hit theatres on July 23rd.
01:53This comes after censor bonds grant an A certification to the film.
02:05And it is Spain that has entered the FIFA World Cup final
02:08with a 2-0 victory against France in the semis.
02:11Today, England to take on Messi's Argentina.
02:31All right, let's cut across to the latest news break that is coming in from West Bengal.
02:36All loyalists of Mamata Banerjee over the course of the last one month
02:39have defected to the alternate TMC camp,
02:43the latest amidst ongoing exodus from Mamata's camp.
02:48Mamata Banerjee has once again come out in support of her nephew,
02:52Abhishek Banerjee, and has took on rebels.
02:54Today, Abhishek is very bad for rebels.
02:56They don't remember that his wife went to CBI with their children.
03:00He could have done a setting and got relief.
03:02If he did any mistake, he overcame it because he is fighting like a tiger.
03:07That is what Mamata Banerjee says.
03:10Rebel Neta Anubrata Mondal had claimed that he left the party
03:14not because of Mamata Banerjee, but because of Abhishek Banerjee.
03:17The latest in the line of defection is Mamata's close loyalist Madan Mitra,
03:22who once again has given the reason for his abandonment
03:27of what he called his guru in politics,
03:30someone he would never leave.
03:32He was loyal to her, and even when he dies,
03:34he would leave as a loyalist to Mamata Banerjee.
03:37But, well, he's defected,
03:39and he has also once again blamed Mamata Banerjee's nephew, Abhishek Banerjee.
03:44Here's more.
04:30The question is,
04:30All right, so this is, viewers, the first time that Mamata Banerjee has once again publicly come out,
04:34as vociferously as this.
04:37First time ever since the slew of defections have taken place,
04:40coming out and defending her nephew Abhishek Banerjee.
04:43Because, mind you, possibly every defection, including Ritabrata,
04:47who has now formed an alternate outfit of the TMC,
04:50has blamed nobody else but Abhishek Banerjee for mismanagement of the party.
04:55So Mamata Banerjee coming in strong support.
04:57The latest loyalist to leave Mamata Banerjee's side is Madan Mitra.
05:05Well, I spoke to Madan Mitra a month ago, and at that point of time, this is what he said.
05:56He said, He said, he said, let's say over there, he said,
06:18But Mother Mitra Ji, you are loyalists.
06:22a minute please
06:25a minute please
06:27TMC کو جارسی چھوڑ کے
06:29alak کوئی اپنا جارسی پہن کے
06:31پھر سے ایک بار
06:32election میں چناؤں میں آئے
06:34کس کوئی نے
06:37جمانت رکھنے نہیں سکے گا
06:39سب ممتہ کو
06:41مو بیچ کر
06:41اپنا جیت کو
06:44سمال کیا
06:45یہ نہیں چلے گا
06:47بنگال کی آدمی تیار ہے
06:49یہ بنگال ہے
06:51اور جو بنگال کے چکرے گا
06:53میں سبندو بابو کو
06:55کوئی دوست نہیں دے گا
06:56جو بادماسی کیا ہے
06:58یہ ریتو بروتو اور ہمارا پارٹی
07:01کا لوگ کیا ہے
07:02کچھ بھیک مانگ نے
07:03کچھ ماتن کا ٹکڑا
07:06کچھ مانگسو کا ٹکڑا پھیک دے گا
07:08وہ لینے کے لیے یہ گیا ہے
07:11well in the same breath
07:13Mother Mitra had also
07:15stated that when he dies
07:17his body will leave as a loyalist
07:19of Mamata Banerjee and not as a traitor
07:21well it took him only a month
07:22to change his mind
07:24some would say
07:25that's the nature of politics
07:26opportunism
07:27alright let's quickly
07:28move on now
07:29and cut across
07:31to the latest political controversy
07:32because TMC
07:33and defections of the TMC
07:35coming in support of the NDA
07:37is old news
07:38the latest spotlight
07:39is now on NCP
07:41Sharad Pawar
07:42the political battle
07:43over Modi government's
07:45two key constitution amendment bills
07:47has begun
07:48even before the monsoon session
07:50starts next week
07:51Sharad Pawar's NCP
07:52has signaled conditional support
07:54to the delimitation bill
07:55with Shipriyash Sule's remarks
07:57coming amidst speculations
07:58over the Pawar camp's
07:59political cause
08:00following recent meetings
08:02some as early
08:04as late last night
08:05with Chief Minister
08:06Devendra Fund News
08:12The stage is set
08:14for a stormy monsoon session
08:15next week
08:16and even before parliament meets
08:19the political numbers game
08:21is already underway
08:24At the heart of the latest churn
08:26is Sharad Pawar's NCP
08:28a party that opposed
08:30the delimitation bill
08:31in April
08:32is now signalling
08:33conditional support
08:34raising fresh questions
08:36over opposition unity
08:40We will consider
08:42provided
08:43consider
08:44Ingraji mi repeat
08:47consider supporting
08:49if the 50%
08:52cap
08:53is to be discussed
08:55and the bill
08:56how will it be
08:58implemented
08:59is still a question
09:02Supriya Sule's remarks
09:04are significant
09:04because Home Minister
09:06Amit Shah
09:06had assured
09:07during the budget session
09:09that the centre
09:10was ready to guarantee
09:11a 50% increase
09:12in seats
09:13for all states
09:14in writing
09:15The timing
09:17is equally significant
09:18It comes amidst
09:20speculation
09:21over the Pawar camp's
09:22future
09:23after meeting
09:24between leaders
09:25from both
09:25NCP factions
09:27and Maharashtra
09:28Chief Minister
09:28Devendra Farnavis
09:30Though the party
09:31has denied
09:32any move
09:33towards the NDA
09:34the optics
09:35continue to
09:36fuel speculation
09:39Our party is intact
09:41We all are working
09:43under Mr. Sharadpawar's
09:44leadership
09:45and we are
09:47very much together
09:50If the NCP
09:52Sharadpawar
09:52lends support
09:53it could hand
09:54the NDA
09:55a crucial
09:55political boost
09:57and dent
09:57the India bloc's
09:58claim of
09:59national unity
10:00The government
10:02is eyeing support
10:03for two
10:03constitution
10:04amendment bills
10:05One
10:06the delimitation
10:07bill
10:08defeated
10:08during the budget
10:09session
10:09The other
10:10the proposed
10:11law to
10:12disqualify
10:13a minister
10:13accused of
10:14an offence
10:15punishable
10:16with five
10:16years or more
10:17and detained
10:18for 30
10:19consecutive days
10:20Both require
10:21a two-thirds
10:22majority
10:23But does
10:25the NDA
10:25have the numbers?
10:26In the Lok Sabha
10:27its tally
10:28stands at 319
10:30after rebel
10:31TMC
10:32and UBT
10:33Sena
10:33MPs
10:34joined
10:34NDA
10:35fold
10:35With NCP
10:36Sharadpawar's
10:37support
10:37it rises
10:38to 327
10:40Still 33
10:41short
10:42of the
10:43360
10:43vote mark
10:44In the
10:45Rajya Sabha
10:46the NDA
10:47has 153
10:48With NCP
10:49Sharadpawar's
10:50lone MP
10:51it reaches
10:52154
10:53Still 10
10:54short
10:55of the
10:55required
10:55164
10:58Congress
10:59however
10:59remains confident
11:00the opposition
11:01will stay
11:02united
11:02and deny
11:03the government
11:04the special
11:05majority
11:07This time
11:08around
11:08it seems
11:09that
11:10the BJP
11:11and the
11:12government
11:12and the
11:12NDA
11:13has been
11:13able to
11:14manage
11:14the
11:14two-thirds
11:14No
11:15They have
11:16not been
11:16able to
11:17manage
11:17the
11:17two-thirds
11:17They are
11:18still
11:18considerably
11:19short
11:20of the
11:20two-thirds
11:20majority
11:21I grant
11:21you
11:22that this
11:22298
11:23now is
11:23no longer
11:24298
11:25He's got
11:2520 from
11:26the TMC
11:27He's got
11:286 from
11:32the
11:33real battle
11:50may not
11:50just be
11:51over the
11:51bills
11:52but over
11:53the
11:53alliances
11:53that
11:54decide
11:54their
11:54fate
11:55Bureau
11:56Report
11:57India
11:57Today
12:02So what
12:03does this
12:03mean
12:03viewers
12:04because
12:04even if
12:05NCP
12:05Sharad Bawar
12:07faction
12:07doesn't go
12:08and ally
12:09with the
12:09NDA
12:10but decides
12:10to support
12:12the government
12:12on the
12:13delimitation
12:13bill
12:14which the
12:14government
12:14is once
12:15again
12:15going to
12:16bring in
12:16then
12:17what happens
12:19what happens
12:19to the
12:19unity
12:20of the
12:20India
12:20alliance
12:21all of
12:21these
12:21questions
12:22swirling
12:22let's
12:22cut across
12:23to our
12:23panelists
12:24this
12:24evening
12:24joining
12:24me
12:25Sanjay
12:25Jha
12:26political
12:26analyst
12:27Tom
12:27Vandekan
12:27national
12:28spokesperson
12:28Bharatiya
12:29Janata
12:30party
12:30Anish
12:30Gawande
12:31spokesperson
12:31NCP
12:32Akhil
12:33Chitre
12:33spokesperson
12:34Shiv
12:34Saina
12:35UBT
12:35Jayant
12:36Menkar
12:37political
12:37analyst
12:38and
12:38senior
12:38journalist
12:39just
12:40two
12:40minutes
12:40I'm
12:41going to
12:41cut
12:41across
12:42to
12:42Rajdeep
12:42Sardisai
12:43first
12:43he's
12:43in the
12:44car
12:44he was
12:44supposed
12:44to
12:45join
12:45us
12:45in
12:45the
12:45studio
12:46a tad
12:46bit
12:46late
12:46but
12:47Rajdeep
12:47do
12:48you
12:48see
12:48the
12:49NCP
12:49Sharad
12:50Pawar
12:50now
12:50moving
12:51towards
12:51the
12:52NDA
12:52late
12:53night
12:53meetings
12:53with
12:54Mr.
13:02Preeti
13:03let me
13:04say
13:04this
13:04that
13:05Sharad
13:05Pawar
13:05through
13:06his
13:06political
13:06career
13:07has
13:07been
13:07someone
13:08who
13:08holds
13:08his
13:08cards
13:09very
13:09close
13:09to
13:10his
13:10chest
13:10is
13:11extremely
13:11circumspect
13:12and
13:12weighs
13:13his
13:13options
13:13very
13:14carefully
13:14before
13:15taking
13:15any
13:15major
13:16decision
13:16I
13:17think
13:17he
13:18doesn't
13:18want
13:18to be
13:18pushed
13:19into
13:19taking
13:19a
13:20decision
13:20in
13:20a
13:20hurry
13:21yes
13:21it's
13:22true
13:22that
13:23MPs
13:24and
13:24MLAs
13:25both
13:25in
13:26Delhi
13:26and
13:26Mumbai
13:26are
13:27keen
13:27for
13:28a
13:28tie
13:28up
13:28with
13:29the
13:29NDA
13:29particularly
13:30because
13:31of
13:31the
13:31Ukta
13:32Suraj
13:32syndrome
13:32they
13:33believe
13:33that
13:33if
13:33they
13:33are
13:34close
13:34to
13:34power
13:34they
13:35will
13:35get
13:35benefits
13:36for
13:36themselves
13:37and
13:37for
13:37their
13:38constituency
13:38and
13:38that
13:39will
13:39be
13:39politically
13:39advantageous
13:40Mr.
13:41Pawar
13:41himself
13:42and
13:42his
13:42daughter
13:43Supriya
13:43Sule
13:43are
13:44hesitant
13:45at
13:45this
13:45moment
13:45to
13:46leave
13:46the
13:46India
13:47alliance
13:47so
13:48it
13:48just
13:48depends
13:49on
13:49how
13:49much
13:49pressure
13:50his
13:50MLAs
13:51and
13:51MPs
13:52can
13:52extract
13:53on
13:53Sharad
13:53Pawar
13:54who
13:54at
13:54the
13:55end
13:55of
13:55the
13:55day
13:55remember
13:55is
13:5686
13:56and
13:57therefore
13:58not
13:58getting
13:59any
14:00younger
14:00all
14:02right
14:02Rajdeep
14:02let's
14:02look at
14:03the
14:03immediate
14:03political
14:04future
14:04let's
14:04say
14:05that
14:05he
14:06prevails
14:06that
14:06he
14:06doesn't
14:07want
14:07to
14:07ally
14:07with
14:07the
14:08ND
14:08and
14:08that
14:08doesn't
14:08quite
14:09happen
14:09but
14:10if
14:10the
14:11NCP
14:11Sharad
14:12Pawar
14:12and
14:12its
14:12eight
14:13MPs
14:13decide
14:13to
14:14support
14:14the
14:14government
14:15on
14:15the
14:15delimitation
14:16bill
14:16which
14:16requires
14:17two
14:17third
14:17majority
14:17in
14:18the
14:18monsoon
14:19session
14:19that
14:20goes
14:20against
14:20the
14:20grain
14:21of
14:21what
14:21the
14:21India
14:22alliance
14:22stands
14:22for
14:23on
14:23this
14:24well
14:25the
14:25way
14:25I
14:26would
14:26put
14:26it
14:26pretty
14:26is
14:27that
14:27the
14:28NCP
14:29Sharad
14:30Pawar
14:31is
14:31certainly
14:31willing
14:32to
14:33support
14:33the
14:34NDA
14:34on
14:35the
14:35delimitation
14:36bill
14:37inside
14:38the
14:38house
14:39inside
14:39parliament
14:40without
14:41necessarily
14:41abandoning
14:42the
14:42India
14:43alliance
14:43now
14:44how
14:44they
14:44are
14:44able
14:45to
14:45do
14:45that
14:45will
14:45depend
14:46on
14:46what
14:46stand
14:47the
14:47India
14:47alliance
14:48takes
14:48particularly
14:48the
14:49Congress
14:49party
14:50I
14:50think
14:50Supriya
14:51Sule
14:51has
14:51made
14:52that
14:52clear
14:52as
14:52well
14:53but
14:53I
14:53think
14:53if
14:54that
14:5450%
14:56uniform
14:57rise
14:58in
14:59constituencies
15:00across
15:00states
15:01is put
15:02in the
15:02draft
15:03amendment
15:03then I
15:04think
15:05parties
15:05like
15:06Sharad
15:06Pawar
15:06will
15:07be
15:09tempted
15:10to
15:11support
15:11the
15:11government
15:12it will
15:12be
15:12their
15:13way
15:13of
15:13reaching
15:14out
15:14to
15:14the
15:15government
15:15in a
15:15way
15:15while
15:16at
15:16the
15:16same
15:17time
15:17trying
15:17to
15:18stay
15:18outside
15:19the
15:20immediate
15:20NDA
15:21umbrella
15:22so I
15:22wouldn't
15:22be
15:22surprised
15:23if
15:24on
15:24the
15:24delimitation
15:25issue
15:26the
15:26NCPSP
15:27would
15:28consider
15:29voting
15:29for the
15:30government
15:30or even
15:31abstaining
15:32if push
15:33comes to
15:33shove
15:34parties
15:35the
15:36bill
15:37they
15:38hope
15:38as a
15:42win
15:42for
15:43the
15:43India
15:43alliance
15:44I
15:44spoke
15:44to
15:45Jairam
15:45Ramesh
15:45just
15:46a
15:46couple
15:46of
15:47days
15:47back
15:47and
15:47he
15:47is
15:47very
15:48clear
15:48that
15:48the
15:48Congress
15:48is
15:49going
15:49to
15:49vote
15:49against
15:50the
15:50bill
15:50so
15:50the
15:51Congress
15:51is
15:51very
15:51clear
15:52on
15:52where
15:52it
15:52stands
15:53but
15:53let's
15:54say
15:54the
15:548
15:54MPs
15:55of
15:55the
15:55NCP
15:55fuck
15:57for
15:57the
15:58bill
16:00vote
16:00for
16:00the
16:02bill
16:03And it seems even DMK might go ahead and support the bill on the same condition that proportional 50%
16:12increase is given to all states, which, if you go back to the last session, you have the Home Minister
16:18who stood up and said, give me an hour, I will amend the bill and put in the 50%
16:23proportional increase for every state clause.
16:28Well, I think, you know, that's been the big challenge for the NDA.
16:33How do you manufacture a majority, a two-thirds majority, when you actually were effectively, the BJP didn't even get
16:40a majority on its own in 2024?
16:43And the events of the last two years have shown that the BJP is determined somehow to manufacture that majority
16:50in the Lok Sabha.
16:51They're still about 15-20 short of that magical 360 mark, but they will hope that there are sufficient abstentions
16:59or that they can swing some of these regional parties,
17:02like the DMK that you mentioned, to reach 360.
17:05So it's not very far away now that they could close in on that 360 number.
17:11And remember, once delimitation comes in, it will significantly alter the political map of this country ahead of the 2029
17:21elections.
17:23Well, thank you, Rajdeep, for joining us there.
17:25I want to cut across back to our guests.
17:27Thank you for the patience.
17:29Even, let's say, the DMK does come in, viewers, the government will still be, the NDA will still be short
17:35of the two-third.
17:36But then what will kick in is independence and abstinence.
17:40Let's get in Sanjay Jha into this conversation.
17:43Sanjay Jha, the Congress still now has been very clear that they are going to vote against the delimitation bill.
17:49And this is something that was confirmed to me just two days back by none other than Mr. Jairam Ramesh.
17:55Where does this leave the India alliance?
17:58Because what has constantly been said is that when it comes to a national level, we are all together.
18:04And it doesn't seem that the unity will be justified in Parliament if you have NCP Sharad Pawar voting in
18:12favor of the bill.
18:13And in all probability, they're dumped ally in the state of Tamil Nadu, DMK.
18:18Preeti, good evening to you and to all the panelists of the program tonight.
18:22Very simply put, I think this 50% pro-rata increase for all the states is slight of hand.
18:30Because if the base number is high, you actually have higher representation in Parliament,
18:35like an Uttar Pradesh or Bihar or Madhya Pradesh, etc.
18:39And those states with a lower threshold of parliamentary seats will be effectively neutralized downwards.
18:47Because in the arithmetic of the Lok Sabha, they will have comparatively lesser influence.
18:53So I think the opposition led by the Congress and I think all the other parties are very clear.
18:58I think George Jairam has articulated exactly the view and it's a sensible view.
19:03It's a view which is in the interest of India's democratic future.
19:06The truth is that even this conversation about the DMK supporting the delimitation bill,
19:12I'm sure it's speculative because that will be nothing short of political suicide for the DMK.
19:17So let's see how that plays out.
19:19But largely from what I'm hearing from you and all this conversation on the NCP Sharad Pawar faction,
19:26Anish is here and he's one of the brightest people that I see on the political firmament.
19:31He will address it on behalf of his party.
19:33But broadly speaking, I think what you have seen in India, especially with the TMC and being done with Uddhav
19:42before and now they're trying with Samajwadi party,
19:45is a political culture of operation washing machine and Operation Lotus being legitimized.
19:51I think it worries me, Preeti, that, you know, this conversation about BJP buying MPs and MLAs has this transactional,
19:59vulgar, vulgar crudity is being normalized as if it's not a big deal.
20:04So Chanakya Neeti is now about who can I buy, when can I buy, I need to pass a delimitation
20:09bill, which parties can I break.
20:10The conversation is not about who is doing it, how is it being engineered and how ideologically corrupt we have
20:17become as a country.
20:18So I just hope that the Maharashtra, where the BJP has completely destroyed its political and its social fabric, faces
20:26resistance.
20:27Mr. Pawar's party has never aligned with the political.
20:29But Sanjitra, you know, that same argument can be overturned by the opposition parties are concerned.
20:33Because where is political ideology?
20:35If parties break at the drop of a hat with a little bit of coercion, a little bit of pressure,
20:40as you allege,
20:40then where does political ideology really stand in today's time?
20:45And we've seen it, right?
20:47Look at how the TMC has crumbled.
20:49And, you know, there can be multiple examples since then.
20:52I want to bring in Anish Gawande into this conversation.
20:55Anish Gawande, you know, and I'm only going by what Supriya Sule, your leader, seems to suggest,
21:01that she's quite OK where the NCP comes into question if there is a 50 percent proportional increase,
21:08something which the Home Minister on the floor of the House had gotten up and said that,
21:13give me an hour the last time the bill was defeated, I'll increase it by 50 percent proportionally for every
21:18state.
21:19So the NDA has already said they're going to do it.
21:23And if that is a demand, then it's all done and dusted.
21:26It's game, set, match.
21:28Now, firstly, thank you very much for having me on your show.
21:31And good evening to all my fellow panelists, especially to Sanjay, who's been very kind with his words.
21:36I want to start off by saying that a mountain has been made out of a molehill, out of Supriyatai's
21:41statements.
21:42Her position and the party's position is categorical.
21:45We will decide what the opinion of the party is when a bill is presented on the floor of the
21:50House.
21:50To speak on a hypothetical bill and find a hypothetical stance to a problem that does not currently exist is
21:58all speculative.
22:00So I think in many ways, if the government amends the bill, if they do bring in 50 percent, that's
22:06a welcome step.
22:07That means they've listened to the opposition.
22:08So that's not what the opposition wanted.
22:11If you go back to the 17th of April, when the bill was defeated, the opposition was very clear that
22:17they were okay with women representation to be 30 percent if it happens on what is right now the fixed
22:25term and the fixed number of MPs in Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha.
22:30And that was the India Alliance prerogative then.
22:32No, there are three distinct points here.
22:34One is that women's representation in parliament and women's reservation is entirely dealing from delimitation.
22:40If the government wants on 543 seats, it can bring women's sort of reservation tomorrow.
22:45And that's our primary demand.
22:46The second thing is on delimitation, our issue is not just 50 percent increase, right, or population increase.
22:53It's also whether number of Rajya Sabha seats will increase.
22:55It is also whether or not you will have reservation on OBC grounds in this bill, right?
23:01So there are other concerns about this bill.
23:03How will it be implemented and which census will be used is another concern we have.
23:08So net-net, you have to wait for the final copy.
23:11Anish Gawande, can I ask you something before I go to the other guests?
23:13Of course.
23:14Especially when it comes down to the census.
23:16Where is the NCP Sharad Pawar?
23:18Because this is going to be a sticking point.
23:20And we'll only know the stand of the NCP in the next few days.
23:23Where does the NCP stand where the census is conducted?
23:27Because if there is a proportional increase, then you really don't need to go by any census.
23:33And I think that's where the government is going to go.
23:35And that's precisely the question, right?
23:38I don't think that the census needs to be involved in such an exercise if it is going to be
23:41a proportional increase.
23:42So the question of the census should not arise.
23:45But then, Anish, allow me, you know, the reason is, just for the understanding of our viewers, allow me to
23:51come in on this.
23:52Because, but then, your ally, the Congress, has always been very staunch on the point that conduct a census and
23:59on the basis of that, delimitation can happen.
24:02So are you saying your party is taking a different point of view on this?
24:05No, I think the conducting of the census on the basis of delimitation is critical for three other reasons, right?
24:11It's not just for a population-based increase.
24:13What are the seats reserved for SC and ST candidates is determined also by the census and on relevant population
24:20weights, right?
24:20Internal migration can change those numbers.
24:22So I don't think, this is not a political debate.
24:24This is a policy debate that should happen in Parliament.
24:26I don't think that this is something that will be decided upon a whim or fancy.
24:30It has to be rigorously debated in Parliament.
24:32And that's what we're hoping for in the upcoming session.
24:34The question is, will the NCP Sharad Pawar be a part of that debate?
24:38Because right now it seems that your party has decided only on the condition of 50% proportional increase that
24:46you will go with the NDA.
24:48But just stay on with me. Allow me to bring in our other guests.
24:51Tom Wadukand, the biggest question right now is that the BJP will do what it takes.
24:58To seek revenge on what was possibly a humiliation of April 17th, where the bill was defeated, and now to
25:05cobble up the numbers no matter what it takes.
25:11Well, we're certainly concerned about this particular bill, because that is more about Women's Reservation Bill.
25:22And that is an issue which they are trying to sideline.
25:26Our issue is that once we bring the delimitation issue, and based on the current, the earlier census, we will
25:37be able to immediately short circuit the whole thing and introduce Women's Reservation Bill, which I think is what is
25:49the basic issue.
25:50That would, you know, it will affect the fundamental shape of Parliament's structure.
26:02And that is opposed by the India Alliance and others.
26:10And this is our party's position, that we want this bill going, and we believe that we will be able
26:17to pull it through, despite the positions taken by the Congress or other parties.
26:25Because this is about Women's Reservation, which is on high priority with our Prime Minister and the party.
26:32If I can comment on this, the Women's Reservation Bill is already passed.
26:37It has been passed in one house.
26:39It has to be reintroduced, or it has to be passed in the Lok Sabha.
26:44But how are both the bills tied?
26:48Both the bills are tied.
26:50In fact, by delimitation, we would be able to do a quick, you know, charge in such a way that
26:58we will be able to push this Women's Reservation Bill so that reservation comes on high priority.
27:06But if intent is to have women's representation, and an increase of women's representation in Parliament, which I think is
27:14very noble, then why not, to begin with, make things easier and do it with the capacity that you have
27:21right now in Lok Sabha?
27:22Why must you, you know, link it to delimitation?
27:25Because there will be a proportional increase to do it then.
27:27Why don't we just go ahead and implement delimitation on the numbers where we stand today?
27:33If that is possible, we will certainly love to do it.
27:37But there are the naysayers, you know, who won't allow us to do it.
27:42If that is the case, we will go right ahead and do it.
27:46But Mr. Wadhakar, you had the Congress on the floor of the House on April 17th, and I would think
27:52that's the LOP who got up and said, do it on the numbers that exist, we support you.
27:57So, that's what they say. But when it comes down to the reality of passing the bill, they will oppose
28:05us a tooth and nail.
28:07This is all very well to say that they will support us. But let them do it and show their
28:13true colors in Parliament.
28:15They don't believe it.
28:16Okay, Akhil Chitre, spokesperson, Shiv Sena, UBT, how worried are you with the developments that are taking place on the
28:22sideline where one of your allies,
28:24Sharad Pawar NCP, late night meetings yesterday with the Chief Minister and a possibility now of, you know, it's in
28:33the realms of speculation, going with the NDA?
28:37See, these are just rumors. And definitely, India Alliance is going to be intact. And Sharad Pawar Ji is not
28:44going to go with the NDA.
28:45That is for, that is for Ashwar. And coming back to this delimitation…
28:52Anish Gavande, can you give him that assurance?
28:56We are a part of the India Alliance. How many times will I give this assurance?
28:59That Sharad Pawar Ji, you're not going to go with the NDA?
29:02Priti, I'll tell you one thing. From the day my party was split, every other day, when there's a slow
29:07news day, rumors keep emerging that we're going to go with the NCP Ajit Pawar, we're going to go with
29:13the BJP, we're going to merge with the Congress.
29:15I don't know how many more assurances we can invest in here.
29:17Okay, Akhil Chitre, make your point. I want to bring in Jain Manakar in there.
29:21So, they are definitely going to be with us. And coming back to the delimitation bill, we view it as
29:26a political tool for gerrymandering, aimed at reducing the representatives.
29:31Of southern and western parts. And so, definitely, we are going to, as Shiv Sena Uddavwala Sarab Thakre, we are
29:38definitely going to oppose this bill, if there are no rectifications made, and definitely NCP is going to be with
29:45us in that.
29:46Okay. Jain Manakar, how do you read the current political situation in the state of Maharashtra?
29:51Do you see Sharad Pawar, who's an astute politician and a pragmatic politician, above all?
29:58You see, Sharad Pawar, in his over 50, 60-year-old political career, he may have had personal relations with
30:06all the BJP leaders, but never had any alliance with BJP.
30:12Even in 1999, after breaking from Congress, he didn't join BJP, but he prefilled Congress.
30:20So, at this juncture, on the point of this delimitation, or Supriya's one particular word, she used the word, in
30:29quote-unquote, consider, we may consider, if it is 50% increase.
30:34Based on that, if this is a thinking, that these 8 MPs, and maybe 10, remaining 10 MLA's, are joining
30:44BJP, that's not what Sharad Pawar would see at the far end of his career, when he is already 86,
30:52and was seen in the wheelchair, at the time of his granddaughter's wedding.
30:56No, he will not do that.
30:59What is the point is, there are rumours being spread that he is going to join BJP, particularly, as BJP
31:07wants, particularly a two-third majority for that.
31:12And on the second point, I know Mr. Anish Gawande may or may not agree with me, but there is
31:19a bargaining also going on with Congress and NCP, and to keep that bargaining in good sense also,
31:28even there are rumours being spread by NCP, Sharad Pawar faction, that if you don't, if we don't get good
31:35deal, we may switch to BJP, in order to get a good bargaining, so that Supriya's future in Congress will
31:44also be safeguarding.
31:46Lots of speculation and conspiracy theories there, but you know, Mr. Manikar, it's interesting on how you've summed it up.
31:55I want to bring in Sanjay Jha into this conversation. Sanjay Jha, 30 seconds, sir, please conclude.
32:01Well, let me tell you one thing. I think my friend Tom, we were in Congress together, I think either
32:06he's made a Freudian slip, or he's put out before the viewers of India today,
32:11the real strategic, and I would call it as an underhand strategic move, to try and force bills into Parliament
32:18that actually have no connection.
32:20What has the women's reservation bill got to do with delimitation? But Tom says, instead of it being decoupled, he
32:28says, no, they need to be aligned.
32:30Clearly, you can see that the entire attempt in Parliament that was done before the Assembly elections in Bengal was
32:38nothing but done to influence women's votes.
32:40So, the BJP has touched such an abysmal depth, Preeti, and you're a woman and a distinguished editor.
32:47Can you imagine manipulating women psychologically by actually creating bills in Parliament that they knew would never be passed?
32:55Sanjay, you have 30 seconds.
32:56I think this is making a mockery of the legislative process.
32:58Okay, Tom Wadhikand, because it was directed at you, I'm going to bring you in first. Go ahead, sir.
33:04Sanjay Jha is a dear friend. He has a point of view which he has just expressed.
33:10This is not about an invite for women. This is about a position that we have taken, that women's reservation
33:18is on top priority, and we will stand by it.
33:22Sanjay Jha is a dear friend. Whatever he says is his view. And I do hope he has been taken
33:28back by the Congress.
33:29And I wish him good luck, because he has been defending the Congress better than many of the spokespersons. Thank
33:36you.
33:37Well, that was quite graceful, Mr. Wadhikand. I'll bring in Anish Gawande. Anish Gawande, 30 seconds.
33:43You know, unfortunately, we have reduced policy to theatrics on issues as important as delimitation, as important as women's reservation.
33:52I don't think these sort of considerations of which parties' support will lead to what alliance shifting where should be
33:59the basis of discussion.
34:00What is sad is that we've forgotten how to debate in Parliament. What's sad is that Parliament doesn't consider these
34:06items as policy agenda issues.
34:08It only considers the politics behind them.
34:10Can I get the Shiv Sena UBT spokesperson, sir? Quick 30 seconds wrap-up.
34:15As you rightly mentioned before in this debate, stating that the Bharatiya Janta Party wants to take revenge this time,
34:22because the delimitation bill was not being passed last time.
34:26They have been hell-bent breaking political parties' right, left and centre.
34:31But still, they won't be able to bring this bill this time.
34:35Okay. Mr. Manikar, do you think, because like Mr. Menikar, because you suggested that he's an astute politician,
34:41he's never gone with the BJP, and we're speaking of Mr. Sharad Pawar,
34:45might not ally with the BJP, but might support the delimitation bill.
34:50Yeah. This is possible, which the main share, Supreme Court has already given.
34:55This is quite possible, but we cannot speculate at all that he will use joining NDA,
35:03that too, at the age of 86, when for 12 years, during the period of Narendra Modi, he did not
35:10join.
35:11Okay. So you think that's not a possibility?
35:13The possibility is of possible support for the delimitation bill, but not possible support to the NDA.
35:19All right. So with that, gentlemen, thank you for joining us.
35:22This is a debate we are going to continue to have in days to come.
35:25We are only inching closer to the monsoon session, and it promises to be a rather,
35:29and if I can pun on the monsoon bit, a stormy session, this parliament session, monsoon session.
35:36Hold on. Too many ifs and buts there.
35:38Let's quickly move on to our next story.
35:41Well, we've been tracking this very closely since yesterday,
35:45where a cleanliness drive launched by the Tinsukia Municipal Board in Assam
35:50has now drawn national attention.
35:52The municipality's Hall of Shame campaign uses CCTV cameras installed at several locations across Tinsukia in Assam
36:00to name and shame public urinators.
36:04One of the largest industrial hubs of Assam, Tinsukia, is now identifying people
36:09allegedly caught urinating in public or littering.
36:12Images captured by the cameras are then displayed on LED screens at prominent locations in the town,
36:18with officials hoping the public display will act as a deterrent and encourage cleaner civic behaviour.
36:26Meanwhile, Rajya Sabha MP Milindiora wants Mumbai's civic body to adopt the same model.
36:33Earlier, the Mysore City Corporation installed mirrors along a wall near the suburban bus stand
36:39to discourage public urination.
36:41All of this has led to a larger debate where Indians are concerned.
36:47One has to admit where it comes down to civic sense.
36:51We need a bit more there.
36:54And is it just a civic issue, a cultural issue, a gender issue, whatever it might be,
37:00it is time now instead of just please,
37:03and we had that with the Prime Minister 12 years ago from the ramparts of the Red Fort
37:07where he pledged Swach Bharat.
37:10Now, the please need to, there needs to be a crackdown, many would suggest.
37:15Extract fines if you find public urinators or those who litter in public,
37:20or public humiliation.
37:22And there are lots of trains of thought on that.
37:25Joining me right now is comedian Cyrus Brocha.
37:29Thank you, Cyrus, for taking the time out and joining us this evening.
37:33My first question, we've had the likes from your city, Milindiora,
37:36who's an MP who has advocated adopting the ASAM model of naming and shaming public urinators.
37:44Do you agree?
37:45What's your take?
37:51I'm very, firstly, I'm very pro Milindiora.
37:53Whichever party he goes to, I follow him like a Pomeranian.
37:57I think he's spot on.
37:59You know, we have lots of issues in the country, no doubt about it.
38:02I mean, there are issues from poverty and infrastructure issues,
38:06and, you know, I mean, war and nuclear proliferation,
38:08all these things are there as well, no doubt.
38:10But we must not forget the simple things, the everyday things.
38:13And I think India needs about a two-year course in etiquette.
38:16And this is not about Amir Gari, this is about everybody.
38:19I mean, it's just, everybody seems to not understand,
38:21the boss is in our locality, let's keep it safe, let's keep it clean.
38:25And they don't follow anything.
38:26And I don't know, I've lost them.
38:27You know, I just, I cry at night thinking about this for hours at a time.
38:31You know, people just leave me alone because I'm so upset.
38:35The biggest problem is that we used to do a show called MTV Bakra many years ago.
38:38And in Delhi, on the road to Bharindabad, we did these gags where we stopped people who urinate.
38:44And the boys there knew that this spot and that spot is the one which is frequent to the most.
38:48So we stopped mostly two-wheelers.
38:50This is the December, the winter of Delhi, December jam, this is obviously very cold.
38:55And it became like a socialist experiment.
38:57Our idea was to make fun and, you know, catch people in an awkward moment.
39:00What's he doing? What's he doing? What's he doing?
39:01But it became more like, every time we stopped them, they were so hurt.
39:04And then I started to empathize with them.
39:05So one guy would say, Abhi, kya karu?
39:09So 100 km ka journey hain?
39:11Kya karu abhi? Beekhne kush hai nahi toilet, toilet, kaha pe karu?
39:14So I didn't have an answer for that because it was like, really, that's unfair.
39:18You know, it's cold.
39:19You're feeling like, you know, you need to release at that point at some point.
39:22But two-hour journey on a two-wheeler in the cold of the evening and not a spot to,
39:26not a proper infrastructure and place for toilet.
39:28So we have a lot of these issues.
39:30And I started realizing that this is an all-India issue.
39:33In Mumbai, I know by heart where the public toilets are.
39:36And in South Mumbai, I'm okay because I'm an old man now.
39:40So I need to pee all the time.
39:41It's part of what we do for a living.
39:43But as you go further, you start finding there are less and less toilets in certain parts.
39:48And I just, I can't understand why we build anything without thinking about the toilet.
39:51Whether it's a restaurant, whether it's, you know, a place to watch shows.
39:55Everywhere, the toilet has been given very poor treatment.
39:58I think the toilet is the ultimate minority of India.
40:01And that someone should finally stand up for the toilet.
40:04I'm glad Bilinder has done that.
40:05Because this is a very simple thing.
40:07You pay your taxes.
40:08Small basic things like road should be okay if you don't die in a manhole.
40:11And above all, if you need to pee, there should be something nearby.
40:14It doesn't have to be in the immediate dust-based meter.
40:16But it should be at least in the next five to ten minutes,
40:18you should be able to find your way to a toilet.
40:20Anywhere in the country.
40:22Well, you know, at one level, bang on, Cyrus,
40:25coining toilets as the ultimate minority.
40:28And you are right.
40:29There are just not too many toilets or even adequate toilets.
40:33We have an acute lack of civic infrastructure in this country.
40:36But if you do, you know, let's flip it a bit, Cyrus.
40:39If you look at other countries, let's look at the UK.
40:40Let's look at America.
40:43Most toilets are paid facilities.
40:45So even though it's not easy to access free public toilets,
40:48there is a sense that people are not going to start peeing in public.
40:51In India, that context is not there.
40:54Do you think it's a cultural context?
40:56Or is it just gender?
40:59Yes.
41:00Firstly, the mayors are to blame more, obviously.
41:02No question about that.
41:03If you ever go into a premier toilet,
41:05and I have done, which is against the law,
41:06it's always cleaner.
41:07There's no question whether it's in an airport,
41:09a train station, a local public toilet.
41:11So that's another matter.
41:12I'm coming up with social ramifications of this whole thing,
41:15which is basically, we are not taught,
41:17and this, again, it doesn't necessarily mean just poor people
41:19or unfunned people and all.
41:21It's across the board and across our different classes of society.
41:25We are not taught that it's important to not pee in public.
41:29If the role models are wrong from your grandfather over there,
41:32you first saw peeing.
41:33So that's a big problem.
41:34So if we go to London or Paris, we're shocked.
41:36I was shocked the first time when they suddenly said,
41:38you have to pay money to pee.
41:40And I didn't have any coins on me because we were in a big group,
41:43and I wasn't carrying anything on me.
41:45So I had to go back and get money to, you know.
41:47But I think we're not ready for that.
41:48Because first, you have to have the basic internal system working
41:52where you realize that you want to keep your city,
41:55and by that, I mean city becomes country, clean,
41:58and by that, you don't want to pee or defecate in public.
42:00It's just not a possibility,
42:02no matter how bad your kidneys are,
42:03or how old you are,
42:04or whatever leakage is happening,
42:06you just don't want to do that.
42:07So that now goes back, as like you said,
42:09directly to our sanskriti and parampara,
42:11which has to change slightly.
42:13Well, you do study the society quite closely,
42:16even if it's for comic relief.
42:17But Cyrus, how do you grow a civic conscience?
42:19Because then, it's not a class issue,
42:22it's not an education issue,
42:25or a literacy issue.
42:26You see Mercedes,
42:27and you see people throwing out trash
42:29from a car like that as well.
42:35That's because the law is taking its course,
42:37and you're scared.
42:38You're scared you'll be caught, or whatever.
42:40So that's the main,
42:41the stick is working,
42:42they're not the carrot for us.
42:43But here, when Willian says,
42:45you have to shame them and all that,
42:46I mean, he's completely right.
42:47But that's the later action to be taken,
42:50for the adult who's doing wrong.
42:51I want to go back to the beginning.
42:53It's just how we are unkind to animals,
42:54or do not have to, you know,
42:55have basic etiquette with other people,
42:57open doors for ladies,
42:58their senior citizens, pass.
42:59All this basic stuff has to start from childhood.
43:02I think schools, they all should go.
43:03Forget ABC, first teacher called this.
43:05Especially for the Indian male child,
43:07say, son,
43:08you have to go to the toilet,
43:10and you have to go to the toilet.
43:11And then explain, what is a toilet?
43:12Of course, there has to be a toilet,
43:13that's another story altogether.
43:16Yeah, the cart horse issue is going on there
43:18at the same time.
43:19But we've improved.
43:20There are some more toilets.
43:21There are definitely more toilets
43:22than I was in the 90s,
43:24when I was growing up.
43:25So, there's no improvement in that direction.
43:27So, let's not blame the government for everything.
43:29I think this is a whole Indian male phenomenon.
43:32We have to take toilet tuition.
43:34And the toilet tuition start at home.
43:35And in those first few years,
43:37the kid should feel a sense of pride
43:39in not wanting to dirty the locality.
43:42And this extends from not just the toilet,
43:43but also about,
43:44you know,
43:44our East colony is lame.
43:46We should be trying to look after it.
43:47We should be stick and span.
43:48But we're still spitting.
43:49We're still peeing.
43:50We're still throwing things out.
43:51I've just said Mercedes cars.
43:53It doesn't make any difference.
43:54If I take a camera,
43:55I can shoot about 10 different people
43:56in 10 different classes of society
43:58marowing the pavement and the roads.
44:01Because there's no love.
44:02We talk about Mother Earth
44:03and, you know,
44:04Maa, Dhani and all that.
44:05But it's not really,
44:07it's just all move-only stuff
44:08where you talk about things
44:09and you don't do anything.
44:11So, I want to go back
44:12and the children have to be taught.
44:13I think teach them civic love first.
44:16Love for the area they live in.
44:18Why?
44:18I don't want to be communal
44:19but in good of Parsi power,
44:20it's always clean.
44:21Nobody's being in public.
44:23They can do it.
44:24A small minority.
44:24Why can't the rest of India?
44:26Well, I love the word
44:28toilet tutions.
44:29But if we wait for toilet tutions,
44:30Cyrus,
44:31that's two generations.
44:33And, you know,
44:34that's a long wait
44:35for people to grow
44:36a civic conscience
44:37with toilet tutions.
44:38In the meanwhile,
44:39do you think
44:40it's a hefty fight
44:41because usually it's money
44:43that could put the fear of God
44:45in the mind of Indians?
44:46Is it,
44:47you have to pay money
44:47so it's best not to do it?
44:51I'm pro the Assam code and method
44:54simply because
44:55I feel that this entire,
44:57you know,
44:57the word shame or charm
44:58is gone out of,
44:59it's extinct.
45:00It doesn't work anymore.
45:01So, we have to bring that back
45:02firstly.
45:03So, people feel us
45:03and because they don't.
45:04I remember the answers
45:05I got when I was asking them
45:07that you have to sit here.
45:08And then the answer
45:09is things like,
45:10where are you from here?
45:11So, where are you from here?
45:12You know,
45:12it's not into their head
45:14that it's wrong.
45:15You know,
45:15that's the whole issue.
45:16And they only enter
45:17with some sense of shame.
45:20But, you know,
45:20Saras,
45:20I had a bunch of
45:22very accomplished women
45:23on my show yesterday
45:24and they said
45:24this is a breach of privacy.
45:28This is not your father's role.
45:29This is our role.
45:30This is India's role.
45:31Maraqsa's role.
45:32Delhi's role.
45:33These are,
45:34please,
45:34they can't pee there
45:35and get away with it.
45:36It's not wrong.
45:37No privacy here.
45:37I will shoot
45:38the offending member as well.
45:40Put it all up there.
45:41Let them feel
45:42a real sense of shame
45:42that families will be appalled
45:44and then people understand
45:44the boss
45:45they have to do it.
45:46Please.
45:47It's like people
45:48coming up one way.
45:49If you ask them
45:50what are they doing,
45:51they tell you
45:51why don't you also do it?
45:53How do we get people
45:54to understand it's wrong?
45:56It's a fundamental issue
45:56is that.
45:57The second issue
45:58is that,
45:58of course,
45:59if nothing's working,
46:00you shame them
46:00and then put the pictures
46:01up,
46:02put videos up,
46:02make it the biggest
46:04selling thing
46:04on your networks
46:05and hopefully,
46:06you know,
46:06the world will come across
46:07because you don't want
46:08to be the next guy.
46:09Your wife,
46:09your mother,
46:10your sister,
46:11your brothers,
46:11your people,
46:12you know,
46:12all of them will feel
46:13a sense of shame
46:14for you and by you.
46:16So,
46:16I'm against it.
46:17I don't know if fines work.
46:19How much can we find them?
46:21Are we really going to find
46:2110 grand
46:22when the guy is like
46:23completely miserable
46:23at the end of the day?
46:24No.
46:25For 500 bucks,
46:26I don't know,
46:26it's like 500 in Mumbai,
46:27I think.
46:29I know a few people
46:30who keep the money
46:31with them
46:31and be in public.
46:32So,
46:33I think we have to
46:33go back to the,
46:34sadly,
46:35go back to the
46:35shaming situation.
46:37So,
46:37Milan is absolutely right.
46:38No,
46:39I tend to agree with you.
46:40Name and shame,
46:41if you can unzip yourself
46:42in public,
46:42even though it's in a corner,
46:44then you deserve
46:44to be outed.
46:45But,
46:46Cyrus,
46:47do you think we talk
46:48about these issues enough?
46:49Because it never really
46:50comes up.
46:51We need to be more
46:52fixated about
46:53these civic issues
46:54because this is
46:55a clear problem
46:56with us,
46:57a lack of civic sense?
47:01Absolutely.
47:02I'm fully on for this.
47:03You know,
47:03I think we don't
47:04take it seriously.
47:07Some kinds of news,
47:08you blow up stories,
47:08you're not really relevant
47:09after some time.
47:11This is relevant
47:1124 hours a day,
47:127 days a week,
47:12generation after generation.
47:14And we still
47:14made no headway.
47:16Like you said,
47:16the Lexus guy
47:17or the Mercedes guy
47:18spitting fawn out of the,
47:19I mean,
47:19it's all,
47:20every day you'll see it.
47:21I mean,
47:22there's no end to that.
47:23So,
47:23again,
47:23we have to go to the beginning
47:24and start.
47:25The Indian wheel
47:25is defective.
47:26Let's face that.
47:28We have to fix lots of things.
47:29Okay,
47:29we have to surgically
47:30do little things
47:31here and there
47:32to make him a better person.
47:33And it's going to take,
47:34it will take one or two generations.
47:35I can't see it happening.
47:37Like,
47:37I'm a horrible Indian male,
47:38but I'm still better
47:39than some of these other guys.
47:40You know,
47:40I mean,
47:41it's just,
47:42I feel,
47:42I apologize to the women of India.
47:43I don't know what else to say.
47:44I think they're a far better species
47:46than the men.
47:47There's no question in my mind.
47:48Well,
47:49you know,
47:49I think,
47:50as representing the Indian women,
47:51thank you for saying it
47:52for what it is,
47:53Cyrus.
47:53And thank you for taking
47:54the time out this evening.
47:57My pleasure.
47:57Now I have to pee.
48:00All right.
48:01Okay.
48:01All right.
48:02Bye,
48:02Cyrus.
48:03All right.
48:03With that,
48:04it's a wrap on this show.
48:06Do stay with us.
48:06On the other side
48:07is my colleague,
48:07God of Southern.
Comments