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00:00Let's go to the Wiseheart Wright We Make It Right call Kyle Wright Hotline.
00:03Welcome in Jason Lloyd, senior writer for The Athletic, locally based.
00:07Hi.
00:09Might be the nicest thing you've ever said about me.
00:13Probably is.
00:15Is LeBron coming back?
00:17I knew you were going to start there, and I'm not going to answer that.
00:20Because if I answer that, you're going to clip it.
00:21You can put it on the internet.
00:22Because I don't know anything.
00:23I'm not on the front lines anymore.
00:24Oh, wait.
00:25All of a sudden.
00:26Oh, wait a minute.
00:26Wait a minute.
00:26The front lines.
00:27Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
00:28So this guy was sitting there talking to us.
00:31Do you sound like Jack Nicholson and a few good men about wanting you on that wall with
00:36all the Shador people on the internet?
00:38And I don't pay attention to my mentions, and I don't give a damn what anybody says about
00:41me.
00:42Now you're afraid that we're going to clip a video of you?
00:44Now he's pulling a Brian Wynhorst.
00:46Oh, don't aggregate me.
00:47I'm going to say all these things, but don't run with it.
00:52Listen, I'm not in that world anymore.
00:53I'm not on the front lines anymore.
00:55I was in 2010.
00:56I was in 2014.
00:57I was in 2018.
00:59I'm enjoying sitting back and sipping iced tea and wondering like everybody else.
01:04Certainly, they're in the mix.
01:05There's no question about that.
01:07And, you know, part of me thinks that if it wasn't Cleveland, they would have gotten that
01:12message out by now.
01:14And I'll leave it at that.
01:16Well, I think what you're getting at is it is hard all these years later, after both
01:22sides reconciled to the degree that they did and it culminated with a championship, that
01:27LeBron is going to lead everybody on at this stage and at his age where people are getting
01:35their hopes up again, all to pull the rug out from underneath.
01:40I'd be surprised by that.
01:41Yes, I'd be surprised, especially, you know, I think that he does have some regret over
01:45how the decision went down in 2010.
01:48And certainly, we're far removed from that.
01:52But I've seen the playbook before because, you know, again, 2010, 2014, 2018, it all looks
02:02so familiar and it all feels so familiar.
02:05And I just think that if he wasn't serious about this and about coming here, I think that
02:12they would have gotten that word out by now in subtle, subtle little ways.
02:15Because I've been part of those conversations in the past and I know how they operate.
02:18I know how they do that.
02:20I'm not now, like, hands up.
02:21Like, I've got nothing to do with this now.
02:23I've been on vacation for two weeks from the Athletic and I'm just enjoying sort of watching
02:28the whole thing play out.
02:30Everybody wants to be Jason Lloyd, man.
02:32He's just an ass kicker in every single way.
02:34He joins us right now from the Athletic.
02:36What does that even mean?
02:38What are you talking about?
02:40Nothing.
02:41Move on.
02:41What?
02:43Well, so, Jason.
02:44Wait, wait, go.
02:45I was going to ask a question, but go right on ahead.
02:46Real quick.
02:47In 2014, you know, the story has, everybody kind of knows that basically LeBron just kind
02:54of made up his mind and they informed the Cavs, hey, make this work, you know, financially.
03:00This time around, I'd like to think there's a little more savvy going on, sophistication
03:06behind the scenes.
03:07We saw maybe the first real domino to fall yesterday with Donovan Mitchell's contract.
03:13We know the James Harden signing to create the cap space has already happened.
03:17They're just going to figure out the number to add as much flexibility as humanly possible.
03:22Does it kind of feel like they're at least building something here?
03:26Or do you think, again, it's LeBron in the 11th hour going, hey, I'm coming.
03:30Make it work.
03:32Well, I do, you know, I do think that sort of their whole off-season plan has been him.
03:38You know, that's sort of the same as what it was in 2014.
03:41Obviously, there was a little bit higher stakes in 2014.
03:43They had to clear max space for him.
03:45They were trading players away that were key players on the team.
03:49You know, they traded Tyler Zeller for nothing.
03:51They traded, I think it was Jared Deck for nothing just to clear space to open the max slot.
03:55You know, this is a lot different than that.
03:58But as is the case with a lot of LeBron's free agencies, you're now at the point where it's basically
04:04over.
04:05Could you still make a trade or two?
04:07Yeah, sure, of course you could.
04:08But it just feels like this is the plan.
04:10And, you know, I keep going back to Dan's tweet when they lost to the Knicks and they got swept
04:17by the Knicks.
04:17And I was a little jarred at how he said we're nowhere near where we need to be because he
04:24isn't typically that forceful anymore on social media.
04:29And they haven't really done anything to improve the roster of consequence since then.
04:35So, yeah, that's what I said.
04:37I'm curious to let this play out and see how this goes now.
04:41What did you think of Donovan Mitchell's contract?
04:44I was surprised he signed it.
04:46It was, I mean, only because who would leave $80 million on the table?
04:51And I think, you know, I think he looked at it as he's already got one of those max contracts.
04:57And this is the second one.
04:58And obviously it provides stability for the Cavs.
05:01And it cements their championship run now in these next couple of years.
05:06I mean, that contract could get ugly on the back end, but you don't worry about that right now.
05:10You're trying to win a championship right now.
05:11You'll deal with the back end of the contract when it comes.
05:14And if you've got one or two championship rings, you don't know he's going to care about what that contract's
05:19going to look like.
05:20And, you know, he's had some injuries.
05:22And I think he took the security and didn't want to deal with a lot of the stuff that comes
05:28with being a free agent in terms of the questions and the speculation and all that stuff.
05:33The trade was, I mean, we can officially stamp it.
05:35We could before, but for sure not.
05:37We can officially stamp it.
05:38The Cavs took a massive risk when they traded for Donovan, and they knocked it out of the park.
05:42It was a home run.
05:44And to get him to sign not one, but two extensions.
05:46I'm telling you, that first year when he was in Cleveland, before he signed the extension, anytime he talked to
05:50anyone in the league, they never thought he would sign one.
05:52And now he's signed two.
05:54So that's a huge win for the Cavs.
05:56What did they do to make him so damn comfortable here?
06:03That's a good question.
06:04I think they built a winning team around him.
06:07They had a good core of young players that they put around, that he walked into.
06:12They even put around him.
06:13They dropped him into it.
06:16And, you know, he said when he got here, he didn't.
06:20It's funny because he's from New York.
06:22He said he wanted to go to New York.
06:24He thought he was going to New York, but at the same time, he loves it here.
06:27He loves, he said he loves the cold.
06:30He doesn't mind the cold.
06:31He grew up in the cold.
06:32I think he likes the fact that he's been embraced and welcomed.
06:37And it's just been a good fit.
06:40And, you know, hopefully they can finish this off here and get one or two more pieces and possibly win
06:45it.
06:45But, you know, he's done everything.
06:48I've said this before.
06:48He's done everything that they wanted him to do since the trade.
06:51They had a young group of players that weren't sure how to win, that weren't sure, you know, really what
06:55life was like in the NBA.
06:57And it was his job to sort of guide them and lead them.
06:59He's done that.
06:59And he's done that exceptionally well, both on and off the court.
07:04He's not a guy you have to worry about getting into something at 2 in the morning.
07:07You know, you don't have to worry about that with him.
07:09He says all the right things.
07:11He does the right things.
07:13And it's been, it's been, he has been exactly what they needed since they made the trade.
07:19Jason, I feel like I've entered crazy town with the way people are talking about Donovan Mitchell now over this
07:25contract.
07:25I mean, I knew that once he signed it, people would be calling it the worst contract in the league.
07:30We've seen that consternation over what these contracts are going to be for a lot of teams.
07:35Jalen Brown, what his next contract is going to be.
07:37There's going to be a slew of other players.
07:38But you just said all this really positive stuff about the environment that the Cavs have cultivated.
07:45We have a genuine superstar who probably never in a million years had Cleveland on his wish list.
07:50And next thing you know, they've created an environment that would make him want to re-sign, you know, two
07:56times over.
07:57And yet, after all these things you just said, why are so many Cleveland fans in my mentions every day
08:03telling me how this team is going nowhere, no chance to win a championship, and there seems to be such
08:10a malaise otherwise, and they're acting like the Cavs are some team that should be ashamed of where they are
08:18in life.
08:20Can I steal a LeBron line?
08:23Because LeBron spoiled everyone.
08:25And he used to say that when he was here.
08:27When he would get mad at me, he would say that.
08:28I'd say, because I'd spoil you.
08:29That's why.
08:30Like, we'd fight about something.
08:31He'd say, it's because I spoil you.
08:33And he said that in 2010, right before he left.
08:36He said, I spoil y'all.
08:38And I do think that there's some merit to that.
08:41You know, we're coming off the 10-year celebration of the championship, and all the stories and all the fielded
08:46stories of,
08:48the parade and coming back from 3-1 and everything, and everybody saw all the pictures and all the videos
08:53of those guys hanging out together,
08:55and everybody relived all of that, while at the same time the Cavs were getting swept from the conference finals.
09:00Now, I look at that and say, hey, they made it to the conference finals.
09:03That's a step in the right direction.
09:05Other people look at that and say, but they got swept, and they played like crap.
09:08That doesn't count.
09:09So I think that they're sort of swimming up the current against the previous era.
09:15And because the previous era won the championship, that's what they are being measured against.
09:20And Donovan isn't LeBron.
09:22He's never going to be LeBron.
09:23That's not a fair bar.
09:24You know, LeBron's one of the 2, 3, 1, whatever number you want to put it on, greatest players ever.
09:31Donovan's never going to be in that conversation.
09:33That doesn't mean he's not a great NBA player.
09:35So I think he's being held to a standard that he'll never meet.
09:40And, you know, it is hard to win in the NBA with undersized players.
09:45Yes, the Knicks just did it with Jalen Brunson.
09:47That makes them like three now in the last 30 years.
09:51So is that what you want to bet on?
09:52You want to bet on three times in 30 years, or do you want to bet on the other 27
09:56times that it's happened?
09:58So that's why I think that there's some frustration over it.
10:03There is risk in giving them that contract.
10:05There's no question.
10:06There is risk.
10:07And, you know, I said a couple weeks ago, I'm not sure I would have been happy to give it
10:11to them.
10:12But I understand the position that they're in, where they don't really have much of a choice.
10:16And he is still a top whatever, again, whatever number you want to put it on.
10:21Top 15 player, top 10, whatever case you want to make.
10:25He's on that level right now.
10:27Is he at the cliff?
10:28I don't know.
10:29Maybe.
10:30There's been some, certainly some injury concerns.
10:34And certainly in the playoffs as well,
10:36there have been things going on.
10:37He didn't have a great postseason this year.
10:39But, again, you're trying to win a championship right now.
10:42You're trying to win this year and possibly next year.
10:45And that's it.
10:46And so you worry about the back of the contract when you get there.
10:51That's not today's concern.
10:53Today's concern is trying to win a championship.
10:55And you worry about, you know, the heavy price tag on the back of his deal when he's, what, 33,
11:0234 years old if he's in decline.
11:04You worry about that when you get there.
11:06You're trying to win right now.
11:07Jay, I actually, I mean, I couldn't agree more.
11:10I said this to Lima yesterday about the comparison.
11:12I go, it's very, very hard to really appreciate how good Donovan Mitchell really is when the legend that we
11:21had were thinking already this year about bringing him back.
11:25And then he's still in the league.
11:27And he's still playing.
11:29It's impossible to be fair to Donovan Mitchell.
11:33I know people don't care about fairness, but it's true.
11:34I'm not trying to put any sympathy on him or play a violin for him.
11:38But it's just a simple fact, if you're a hardcore Browns Guardians fan and then you pay attention to the
11:45Cavs, like you've already seen the best of the Cavs.
11:47I don't know how anything can top it, so anything pales in comparison.
11:50So, yeah, you're going to naturally be let down by all that, aren't you?
11:54Yeah, yeah.
11:55And that's, you know, I mean, listen, 2016 was probably the single most incredible year of my career.
12:03You know, I've been doing this a long time.
12:04And that year for, when you throw the Indians World Series run in with it, that was a magical time
12:10here.
12:11And that's the bar.
12:13You wrote a book.
12:14I have the pictures to prove it, too.
12:17You just keep those holstered.
12:20But, you know, that's the bar that fans are going to measure every other team against.
12:27And fair or not, that's just the reality of it.
12:29And it's probably unfair.
12:32Because, again, you had the greatest player of this generation, one of the greatest players to ever play the game,
12:38write an unbelievable story by coming home to the people that you spurn.
12:41And we know the story now and how it all goes.
12:44And it's just, it's really hard to top that.
12:48And, you know, it shouldn't take away from the current team and what they're trying to build.
12:55But I'm sure it does, in a sense.
12:58Would you want Francisco Lindor back?
13:02I hit you guys on earlier.
13:03I heard a little something about this.
13:05I mean, yeah, sure, I'd love to have him back.
13:07But I don't think there's anything realistic about that scenario at all.
13:11Well, suspend realism here.
13:13I mean, 98% of what we talk about in sports is semantics.
13:17He doesn't want to get aggregated.
13:18He doesn't want video clips out.
13:20He doesn't want to talk sports.
13:21Where did you go on vacation?
13:23What does he want to do?
13:24Where did you go on vacation?
13:26My backyard.
13:27We didn't go anywhere.
13:28Oh, you need to go back out there and find your balls.
13:31That's what you need to do, Jay.
13:33I just said I'd love to have him back.
13:35I just don't think that's tethered in reality whatsoever.
13:39He's a tremendous player.
13:40Of course you'd want him back.
13:41If we're playing fantasy baseball, yeah, go make the trade.
13:44That'd be great.
13:45I just don't see any world where the Mets would eat as much money as it would take.
13:52I don't think it's realistic.
13:53But, yeah, he's a phenomenal player.
13:55Again, you talk about the golden age or whatever.
13:58I don't know.
14:00I guess the 90s would really be the golden age of the Indians.
14:02But, I mean, 2016 was pretty special.
14:05And he obviously had a big part in that.
14:08Okay.
14:09Anthony, ask your question about Jared Verse now.
14:12I'm seeing the overcompensation now that Myles Garrett, an all-time great, is gone.
14:17And we are, I think, getting a little carried away with the talk about Verse.
14:22What an amazing leader he is.
14:24He doesn't just rush the passer.
14:25He also stuffs the run.
14:27And he's going to be a better fit than ever before, than Myles was.
14:31And are we getting a little carried away?
14:33I think we're doing a disservice.
14:36I don't know.
14:37I guess I haven't read it quite the way you have with that.
14:41But, I like the trade.
14:44I thought it was a great trade.
14:46I thought it was a year, not too late, but I thought they should have traded him last year.
14:51So, to get what they got for him and to be able to get a player versus caliber plus picks,
14:56you know, I thought it was a great trade.
14:57And, you know, like, Myles last year did a terrific job against the run.
15:02Like, full credit to him.
15:04Not only did he break the sacks record, he also was much, much better against the run.
15:10Prior to last year, you'd have people, I'd have people tell me, like,
15:13all you got to do is run in the gap that he vacates because he's just running upfield looking for
15:16sacks.
15:18So, he was not as good against the run.
15:20So, I do think that that is fair if Verse can help them in that.
15:24But, I do think, and listen, I'm not trying to crap on Myles.
15:28I'm truly not.
15:30But, he wasn't the perfect player.
15:32There are things that, there are areas of the game where, you know,
15:35maybe Verse can be a little bit better.
15:37Now, he's not going to be the same player Myles was as a pass rusher.
15:40There's no question about that.
15:41I don't think anybody's fooling themselves on that.
15:44I just think it was more alignment in terms of age, in terms of contention window,
15:50and in terms of just being honest about where they were.
15:52So, I thought it was a great, I thought it was a great trade.
15:54So, are people getting carried away on Verse?
15:57I mean, it's July.
15:59What do you expect?
16:01Like, people are looking for some sort of glimmer of optimism with this team.
16:06So, I've laughed at a few things that have been said about various people
16:11and the organization and their role this year in the optimism.
16:14Yeah, what have you laughed at?
16:15What are you laughing at?
16:16What's funny?
16:17Nope.
16:18Nope.
16:19You used to have guts.
16:22Yeah, I used to.
16:23Now, I'm old.
16:23You used to be fearless.
16:26Now, look at you.
16:29Come on.
16:29Give me something I can aggregate you on.
16:31Come on.
16:32Come on.
16:33I know it.
16:33Come on.
16:34Hey, what do you think of Shador Sanders?
16:36Come on.
16:38It is July 8th.
16:40The sun is shining.
16:41It's a beautiful day.
16:42We'll have plenty of time to argue about Shador in the weeks and months ahead.
16:47All right.
16:47Fine.
16:48All right.
16:49Jason, thank you for the time.
16:50I've given you plenty.
16:51I've given you plenty.
16:52Did you?
16:53Yeah.
16:54I disagree.
16:58Jason, thank you.
16:58I'll be better next time.
16:59I'll see you.
17:00I'll see you in hell.
17:01Jason Lloyd.
17:02From the Athletic.
17:03I don't know why it's all right.
17:04We make a right call.
17:05Kyle Wright online.
17:06Did that end to your specifics?
17:08Yeah.
17:09All right.
17:09I mean, the thing he says about LeBron is true.
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