- 2 days ago
Diego Carrete, Chief Wellness Officer at the UAE's First Abu Dhabi Bank, joins Anas Abbar, co-founder and CEO of 7awi Media Group, in this episode of Culture &… by Inc. Arabia.
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00:00HR would be the function, managing your contract, and the wellness officer or the wellness function would be those in
00:06charge of you, enabling you to fulfill it in the best of your abilities, emotionally, physically, mentally.
00:19Our guest today is Diego Carette, one of the pioneering chief wellness officers in global finance and a global wellness
00:26institute ambassador.
00:28He leads the wellness strategy for one of the Middle East's largest financial institutions and is the author of the
00:35wellness intelligence briefing on Substack.
00:39Diego works on the intersection of human performance, workplace design, and the economics of attention, helping organizations rethink how well
00:49-being, productivity, and leadership together in an increasingly demanding world.
00:54In this conversation, we will explore the evolving role of wellness in the workplace, the business case for the investing
01:01in people, and how organizations across the region can build cultures and enable both individuals and organizations to thrive.
01:11Diego, welcome to Culture End by Inc. Arabia.
01:16Thank you so much for having me.
01:17Always a pleasure.
01:20It's a pleasure indeed.
01:21Let's jump into the conversation today.
01:26We talk about wellness, and you are one of the first chief wellness officers in global finance.
01:34What is a chief wellness officer in plain English?
01:37In plain English.
01:38I like that remark.
01:41When we look at a wellness officer, let's use also HR as a comparison, because most or some of the
01:52wellness officers' heads of well-being are housed for now under HR.
01:57So, HR would be the function, managing your contract, and the wellness officer or the wellness function would be those
02:06in charge of you, enabling you to fulfill it in the best of your abilities.
02:13Emotionally, physically, mentally.
02:16That's as close as plain English as I can get to.
02:20So, you know, if you were to go back in time, when did you realize that there is a need
02:27for such a role?
02:29From a personal standpoint, I've always been involved in wellness since the past 24 years.
02:35So, I don't know life without it being looked at from that lens.
02:43When I came into Dubai, into the Middle East, and I got in touch with the culture of high performers,
02:52I noticed something.
02:55I noticed that a lot of them were running on empty.
03:00They were trying to fulfill their obligations as parents, as businessmen and women, with half of the battery gone.
03:10They were physiologically, emotionally, and mentally depleted.
03:15Drained.
03:15Drained, absolutely.
03:18And I realized that there was nobody giving them the right tools and resources so they could regulate their emotions,
03:28their mental capacity, and their bodies, right?
03:35So, that's when the conversation started taking place.
03:39I started in corporate wellness, advising different firms in these endeavors.
03:46I launched my own businesses, always in the wellness sector.
03:50And then came my current employer, and that's how I became one of the first chief wellness officers in finance.
03:57And I would say the first one in the region, right?
04:01In the financial sector.
04:03You know, why now?
04:05I mean, in many ways, if we go back, maybe as little as 10 years ago, no one brought up
04:10this topic, right?
04:11And now, all of a sudden, the wellness piece and the chief officer for wellness is a title that we're
04:19hearing about.
04:20Maybe less in finance, but we're seeing it in technology, in governments, and so forth.
04:26What makes it so needed now?
04:31I believe the rate of burnout, disengagement, being at an all-time high.
04:35Then, looking at the new generations coming into the workforce, they have been raised with a different approach to life.
04:46They have understood that they can launch a company bootstrap and become free financially from a geographical standpoint as well.
04:59So, if we are to retain that type of talent, we need to ensure that we cater for what the
05:06priority is for them, right?
05:08Right.
05:08See, the new generations don't even drink that much.
05:12They are not attached to alcohol or to this type of vices.
05:16They are pretty much like a very healthy, forward-looking generation that has a different set of values.
05:22So, from a retention standpoint, it's very important.
05:26Are you referring to the Gen Z or the Gen Z?
05:30Gen Z.
05:31Yeah.
05:31So, you're seeing a difference between the Gen Zs and the millennials that…
05:35100%.
05:35I can see it even within my own teams, right?
05:39The way that they operate is very different.
05:42And then, we see the other side of the equation, which is ourselves, or even…
05:47They are emotionally, physically depleted, having a great amount of talent, but not being able to reach their full potential
05:59because there is no battery, right?
06:01Then, you see disengagement, disengagement in managers.
06:04Managers are responsible for most of the disengagement nowadays.
06:07So, it starts at the top, and it's the piece that unlocks high performance.
06:13Diego, you truly hit a note here because in our previous sessions, we called out how Gen Zs think differently.
06:24And it's about the toxic workplace, the toxic boss, and what a great place means to them.
06:30So, I can see how there's this alignment with the Gen Zs in terms of wellness and what they feel
06:40and see is right.
06:43But if I step back a little bit here and ask about finance, I mean, to me, and maybe to
06:49many of us listening to this podcast, wellness is HR, like you rightly said earlier.
06:57But wellness and finance, you know, for me, it's very difficult to see that intersection.
07:03How does that work for you?
07:06Well, wellness currently is housed under HR in many organizations across the globe because it's a function, it's a title
07:16that needs maturity.
07:18It's at an early stage.
07:20In the ideal scenario, you want the wellness function close to operations because you are able to link productivity, ROI,
07:31and different metrics with wellness.
07:34But again, it's too early.
07:36Therefore, a feasible way to get it started is under, you know, human resources, value proposition, and whatnot.
07:44But you do see it that every department potentially can have its own wellness officer, whether it's operations, it's business
07:54development, it's…
07:55That's a very good question, actually.
07:57And before I forget to answer the other question, an expensive mistake in the finance sector, so a mistake in
08:05the finance sector is very expensive.
08:07So we need to make sure that our staff is mentally, emotionally, and physically okay to perform.
08:13So in this specific sector is even more important.
08:16Now, how I see the function evolving in the future, I see a wellness officer that has different champions in
08:24different departments, almost like a steering committee of wellness that has different representatives because each function has different needs.
08:34When you look at, let's say, you are going to have different needs or pain points that we need to
08:45address, right?
08:46It might be sustained energy levels for constant outgoing calls.
08:52When you look at trading, you are going to have maybe an ergonomic problem because you are looking at different
09:00screens.
09:01So then it's going to be very important to understand the ergonomics of that specific function.
09:07And we will understand that, okay, when we look at the musculoskeletal disorders or the different claims from that function,
09:14back pain is going to be probably higher.
09:16So they need a different investment into maybe the way that screens are positioned.
09:21They need different tools.
09:23Hyper-specificity is where we are trending.
09:26We need to make sure that we optimize every resource possible.
09:31And wellness is the resource that we all have in common.
09:35Yeah.
09:36And from what I'm hearing, wellness is not just mental, but also physical in that sense.
09:40There is many dimensions and each author has its own, basically, playbook.
09:48We have social, we have emotional, physical, we have mental, but certainly social is one of those who gets easily
09:58ignored.
09:59And it's been proven that loneliness, that lack of social element is as deadly as smoking.
10:07It's equivalent to smoking 15 cigarettes a day.
10:10Wow.
10:11Right?
10:11So we oversee this sometimes or, you know, deliberately or because we get busy, we don't think about it.
10:18But yeah, it's a concern.
10:21We panic when we see our phone with even myself.
10:24I came in here, my phone was at 7% battery.
10:27I immediately run to your receptionist and you please charge it for me.
10:32But do we pay the same attention or equal attention to when we are on a five-hour sleep?
10:40We just have another coffee, but we don't pause and reflect, okay, I'm running almost on empty.
10:46No, true, true.
10:48So, if a CEO is watching this episode today, what would, you know, maybe he would be asking, what would
11:00be a typical month for Diego?
11:03You know, how does it work?
11:06Forget the LinkedIn or social media posts that people can feature on their profiles.
11:14Realistically, how does Diego go around with a typical month?
11:22I think something very important is that the person that represents wellness in your organization needs to walk the talk.
11:28That person needs to be healthy from every angle and needs to exercise and needs to present himself in a
11:38way that represents the role.
11:42A role model in a way.
11:43A role model, right?
11:45So, be emotionally composed, talk to people, have the door open, have always, basically, be that picture of wellness that
11:59you want the others to be.
12:01You are a mirror, right?
12:02Now, when it comes to writing and social media, I write in the morning, first things, 90 minutes, then my
12:07team takes care of that, and then they distribute across channels.
12:11But for me, that writing, that reading, that studying every day is very important.
12:15Because you need to stay up to date with whatever happens around the world.
12:19It's the same as the stock market.
12:21In wellness, it's the same thing.
12:23Then my typical day, basically, well, it depends on the quarter.
12:26It depends on what we have going on.
12:28But fundamentally, I take data and then I create, whether that's initiatives or resources or whatever tools might be at
12:42my disposal in the organization at that specific point in time to assist employees.
12:47So, it's not, okay, what do they want, okay, what do they want, but also what do they need?
12:53So, looking at data, formulating the policies, making sure that these policies are implemented, make, from an administrative standpoint, from
13:04a health and safety standpoint, there is a crossover sometimes in some aspects.
13:09It needs to basically be well-informed and then making it reach the employees and constantly getting quantitative and qualitative
13:20feedback on, has this resonated?
13:23Has this helped?
13:24Getting that feedback loop, measuring, and re-implementing.
13:28It's a constant, ongoing process, a learning curve.
13:31You know, it's walk the walk and talk the talk.
13:33Yes.
13:34In terms of, like, when we see so many companies talk about corporate wellness, how much of that is actually
13:42a theater?
13:43Like, it's not, you know, it's just a checkbox that I need to do, but not necessarily do the follow
13:50-up and measure, look at data and so forth.
13:54From my personal perception, because the data is not public, they are not going to say, okay, I'm faking it.
14:01We look at 80, 90% of wellness that we see out there is a checkbox exercise is, okay, I
14:10run an activity, I do a three-week intervention, and then I forget about it.
14:15I don't measure the outcome.
14:16It's just a matter of, hey, I'm giving you X, Y, Z, because you asked for it.
14:21If you don't, employees don't need information.
14:24We all have information.
14:25We need support throughout the implementation.
14:28We need a caring partner that holds our hands throughout the journey and takes care of what matters.
14:36What would you say the biggest misconception C-levels or leaders have about the employees' well-being?
14:46I mean, are they not informed, not educated, misinformed?
14:52Depending on the organization, and I speak again, these are very generalistic terms that I use.
14:57I'm not implying the region, my employer.
14:59This is my overall understanding as a Global Wellness Institute ambassador.
15:04There is a big disconnect between C-suite and other tiers across the globe, irrespective of the size of the
15:13organization, now less and less.
15:15But because of that disconnect, the perception of wellness from one function or another part of the organization will be
15:26vastly different, as well as the lack of uniformity amongst managerial responsibilities is highly dependent on the manager.
15:35Managers are responsible of 70% of the engagement of their teams, and they are themselves disengaged nowadays.
15:41And that has been shown in the latest Gallup findings.
15:46So the misconception is that wellness should be universal to everyone, and that can be measured with one single data
15:56point across the organization.
15:58And the biggest of them all, to me, is that wellness is not measurable.
16:03That is subjective.
16:04Okay.
16:05Or that wellness is engagement.
16:08I have personally proven the ROI on wellness with insurance data, and I presented that in the Global Wellness Summit
16:15last year.
16:15I'm going to present it again this year in Thailand in their 20th anniversary.
16:19Yes.
16:20I managed to get the data and to present results, whether they are good or bad in this case.
16:27I don't know if they were good.
16:29They are positive trends that you observe.
16:33And of course, it is not because of my wellness intervention or my function.
16:37It's teamwork.
16:38But there is a trend that shows that there are some advancements in different areas because of how the organization
16:49is approaching wellness, health, and well-being.
16:52So there is an effort, intentional effort, top-down.
16:56100%.
16:57And where I work right now, it comes from the top, and it's a blessing to work under such guidance.
17:03And that's the most important thing, that you are in the same wavelength as the leaders because at the end
17:10of the day, they are the role models for the whole organization in their respective functions.
17:14And hopefully, this will have an effect on others, like a copycat effect that others would like to be in
17:21that same structure and that corporate wellness is…
17:26It's healthy peer pressure in a way, regionally, worldwide.
17:31Because at the end of the day, when the number speaks for themselves, it's great.
17:35Financially, it makes sense.
17:36But ethically, it makes sense.
17:38Yeah.
17:39Yeah.
17:39Absolutely.
17:39Absolutely.
17:40Right?
17:40I've written a book recently that I haven't launched yet, and I will not promote it, but it talks exactly
17:46about this.
17:47It talks about how to create an evergreen company.
17:50It's inspired in Simon Sinek, in The Infinite Game.
17:53So how can we, as an employee, or as an employer, make sure that this employee that comes through the
18:00door in their 20s and then lives in their 50s is in a healthier, better point?
18:07Wow.
18:08That's the objective.
18:08Wow.
18:09I'd love to see that.
18:10Right?
18:11Absolutely.
18:12Absolutely.
18:12I want to go back to our region versus the other regions.
18:15But before that, I've saw and read a few places about you calling out corporate athletes.
18:24Yeah.
18:24You know, can you explain more about this?
18:27I think lots of our audiences may not be familiar with that term.
18:30I don't think I've coined it.
18:32I mentioned it, but I cannot attribute myself the term of corporate athlete.
18:37But I use the analogy to basically highlight or emphasize how an athlete trains specifically, hyper-specifically for a goal,
18:49right?
18:49So a marathon runner will train endurance, cardio-respiratory fitness, the weightlifter will train, you know, the muscle through the
18:57eccentric and concentric part of the repetition.
19:00Now, for a corporate athlete, our most important muscle is our brain.
19:07So we need to ensure that we train, that we nourish, and that we look after our brains.
19:13Otherwise, it's an unfair ask.
19:16How can we cognitively expect to perform in a certain way if we are feeding and nourishing our main muscle
19:23the wrong way, starving it through lack of sleep, through poor nutrition and poor nutrients, through an impaired central nervous
19:31system that is spiking our cortisol and different hormones at the wrong times, through toxic lighting that is shallow throughout
19:39the whole day.
19:40So that is the concept of, we need to cater and nourish our brain the same way an athlete nourishes
19:50his or her muscles.
19:52The big elephant in the room, in every conversation I have, is AI.
19:57Now, AI is supposed to have helped us in, you know, removing some type of stress or some work from
20:07our plates.
20:08But what we're seeing is that it's to the counter, you know, yes, we're leveraging AI, but the plate is
20:16always full.
20:17Yeah.
20:17It's not like we're not gaining back time.
20:21How do you see this?
20:23I'm personally very much into AI.
20:25I've been studying AI very diligently for the last four years.
20:28And what I see in AI amongst my peers, in the different masterminds that I belong to, how is this
20:38constant pursuit of productivity with no end in sight or with no goal in mind?
20:46People will be coding over the weekend, X, Y, Z, and then they don't put it to use, creating an
20:53app before proving the business outcome or the creating X, Y, Z before understanding if there's actually a demand.
21:02Yikes.
21:03So, how to make AI help you work less?
21:07Well, first, understand the demand, then survey the audience.
21:11One, there is the demand.
21:12You can even pre-sale, then create your AI product, and then cash in.
21:16But a lot of people, and including myself, I've done it a couple of times, I learned something because I'm
21:20emotionally attached to the outcome because I think that's what the client needs.
21:24But then I end up creating, I've created a business for my daughter, right?
21:30She's six years old.
21:31I created a business with her in mind.
21:34It was called the Iris Protocol.
21:36So, how to dial in your nutrition based on chronobiology, on your circadian rhythm and circadian lighting.
21:43Because I always tell her, Iris, now it's time to sleep.
21:46So, it's not time to eat.
21:48Now it's time to rest, not to digest.
21:49Eat when the sun is up.
21:51So, then I said, hmm, how about I take her drawings, and I create these graphs, and then I create
21:57a chronobiology nutrition system that I can then sell and even, you know, give the profit away.
22:04I just wanted to do something with her.
22:07Fantastic program.
22:08I never marketed it.
22:09So, that's a clear example on how to do something for fun, but feel extremely unproductive at the end of
22:14the day.
22:14But you kept yourself busy.
22:16Still there, so I can still launch it.
22:18And it works.
22:19Yeah, I think that's the double edge of AI, is that, you know, how do we use it and not
22:26get abused of what AI is.
22:28And I think it applies to every function, every role that we do in life.
22:33And the wallet, too, because those tokens become expensive.
22:36I had, when I realized I was spending $500 a month in Cloud, Gemini, CharGPT, you know, all that stuff.
22:44Do you see that this novelty of AI might decline?
22:49I mean, today, everyone wants to jump on the wagon and, you know, do you see it slowing down?
22:55And if it does, does that mean, from a wellness perspective, we're, you know, better off?
23:00At the end of the day, the poison is in the dose and in the intent.
23:06I believe that AI is of great help.
23:09But I compare it to technology and wearables five years ago.
23:16Once I started using wearables and the rings and whatnot, I grew so detached from my own body that I
23:23stopped understanding my own body.
23:25Now, I don't use any wearables.
23:28I don't mean it's the right thing to do.
23:32But what happened to me is that I grew detached from my body.
23:35Now, if we keep using AI in a way that it has no purpose, no intent, no regulation, off limits,
23:42it's going to end up in a point where we're going to eventually burn out as well.
23:48And I do believe that there is going to be a point where we're going to be able to launch
23:53businesses in a matter of five minutes.
23:56Payment gateway, everything, from a prompt.
23:59Yeah, yeah, yeah.
23:59So this is going to be a commoditized knowledge and capabilities, right?
24:09So there's only so long until it's like the concept of the universal, right?
24:15Some people believe in whatnot.
24:16So it's the same thing, right?
24:17So I think that AI, there's going to be a point where we're all going to have access to almost
24:22the same resources.
24:23And you can pretty much prompt a business out of your cell phone and start selling in five minutes.
24:30Quite interesting.
24:32I want to come back to the region and you've been here for a few years now.
24:4011 years.
24:4011 years.
24:41So you had the privilege of, you know, living in the West and coming to the Middle East.
24:48In a similar way, I grew up in the West and yet home is now here in the Middle East.
24:53What does the Middle Eastern region get it right versus the West in terms of wellness?
25:01What is it that we do better at in the Middle East versus the West?
25:07In wellness or in general?
25:08In wellness.
25:10Are we doing anything right in wellness?
25:12I think this region, I might be biased.
25:15We do everything right.
25:17In what other part of the world can someone come from America where I finish my status with $3,000
25:23and 11 years later, be a chief wellness officer of the largest financial institution and have a family, have properties
25:31and be talking to you here today.
25:33So I've lived everywhere in the world, but I haven't seen anything alike in terms of opportunity and reward for
25:38commitment
25:39and long-term vision.
25:41So that's what I honestly believe about this region.
25:45I will retire here.
25:45But going back to the wellness side of things, I think leadership here believes in wellness and walks the talk.
25:56So they put the money where their mouth is.
25:58It becomes policy.
25:59It becomes part of the government outlook on the country.
26:05It's just a way of being congruent with what they think.
26:12But everywhere else in the world, I'm not going to speak about any country specifically,
26:18but they might not have this congruency and alignment between what they think and what they do.
26:27And here, we believe in something, we execute.
26:31We take feedback, we reiterate.
26:34I have to say we're the luckiest people on the planet.
26:37I think, generally speaking, absolutely, we're super lucky to be living here.
26:42It's home.
26:43But, you know, there's no perfect place.
26:46Is there anything that is still missing or that's something we need to figure out in the Middle East?
26:52Wellness-wise, I think we, in fact, we are the fastest growing market in wellness.
27:00And if you look at the comparative between population, it's outstanding.
27:07Even through, see, wellness is the only or one of the few anti-fragile economies.
27:15I wouldn't say economy because it's not an economy, it's an industry.
27:18It's actually an accumulation of sub-industries.
27:22Okay.
27:22But it's one of the few that are anti-fragile.
27:25Anti-fragile means that it grows under pressure.
27:30Instead of contracting, it expands.
27:34And the Middle East is pretty similar to that.
27:38It grows under these circumstances.
27:40And wellness is the same.
27:41So I think there's a perfect geographical fit to develop this industry.
27:45Yes.
27:45You mentioned the wellness economy or the wellness industry.
27:49Where do you see that heading?
27:50I mean, at the end of the day, it could be a business opportunity.
27:54It has to be a business opportunity, right?
27:56Whether you're investing in the people or you're investing in programs, etc.
28:01Where do you see that wellness economy heading?
28:05I see wellness economy going back to community, going back to social, going into real estate,
28:14going from a product into a place.
28:18And we already see this with the developments of some of the biggest companies here, right?
28:25Right.
28:26Right.
28:26Wellness is moving into the environment, personalization, of course.
28:32But more rewiring and going back to the basics.
28:39And this includes social, relationships, communities.
28:43Not necessarily the most flashy stuff.
28:47Not necessarily the most exciting stuff.
28:50Yeah.
28:50But the one that actually works.
28:52And we are going to fall in love with that again.
28:54Sure.
28:55So, like, do you see there's a minimum standard for companies to have?
28:59I mean, enterprise, large companies will probably ride the wave and create that, you know, chief wellness officer or chief
29:09wellness programs.
29:10Do you see, like, there's a minimum requirement that companies need to offer?
29:17Well, wellness, you can mold it the way you feel works for your company.
29:23Look at an SME with 20 people.
29:25Yes.
29:26Or a startup.
29:27Yeah.
29:27The amount of pressure, the amount of hours.
29:29As an entrepreneur, I know myself, you know this.
29:32So, it's even more necessary sometimes over there.
29:35It's just the mold is different.
29:38It's not regarding the size of the company.
29:42It's regarding how do we solve the pain point that now is hurting our employees' health.
29:48Sure.
29:49And how can we grab that low-hanging fruit that makes it work for the organization?
29:55So, let me ask it in a different way.
29:57Yeah.
29:57Do you see that governments need to incentivize companies to do this?
30:04I mean, you mentioned the SMEs.
30:06SMEs tend to, you know, they have very little buffer, right?
30:10You know, priorities always conflict, etc.
30:13Do you see a program where governments will start thinking about incentivizing companies?
30:20I am not who to say this should be or should not be done.
30:26And I would love to see that.
30:27I would love to non-lucratively contribute to the IP of such initiative.
30:33And that's part of the things that I do with wellness intelligence.
30:36Wellness intelligence is almost non-lucrative in a big way because it's the voice that I wish I had when
30:47I started.
30:47That guidance is my will to create economic opportunity for all these talented wellness professionals that they lack the language
30:57to communicate with corporations because wellness and the corporate sector are very far apart from a language standpoint.
31:06But at the end of the day, it's a matter of connecting the dots.
31:10I think if more professionals would know how to speak the language of corporates and really understand what they need,
31:18they have amazing talent to fix those issues right away.
31:21Diego, in our previous sessions, hiring talent is a top priority and it's a very scarce talent that we have
31:30in this region.
31:31From your perspective, what matters the most?
31:36Is it the compensation?
31:39Is it the well-being or the career growth that the talent is looking for today?
31:48Especially with the newer generation that is unlocking opportunities for companies.
31:55And you rightly mentioned for the newer generations.
32:00For Gen Zs and newer generations, motivations go way beyond remuneration.
32:06So you mentioned those three.
32:08I think it's a combination, an equilibrium amongst those three.
32:11But I would say well-being and career growth, they both take the lead on that discussion.
32:19And compensation, as long as there is a minimum viable amount met for covering of basic needs and future plans.
32:30I don't think it's taking the lead anymore.
32:36And that's different than what you see with the older generations like the millennials.
32:42Even it's changing now because a lot of older generations, instead of looking at their 401ks or retirement,
32:50they're looking at what am I going to be able to do when I retire?
32:56Plus, we are living longer.
32:58We are working for longer.
33:00We need to look into workplace healthspan.
33:03So how well we live while at work.
33:07So that's another business opportunity, which is called workplace healthspan.
33:12You know, if you were to tie the knots in a way or connect the dots,
33:19a skeptical CEO will come in and say, you know, prove to me that this is a business issue, not
33:28an HR issue.
33:29Because to our earlier conversation, we said because it's something that is evolving, we'll put it under HR, right?
33:37But the reality of it, there is a business impact to this conversation.
33:41How would you convince a skeptical CEO that actually this is going to impact your business?
33:48I would ask the CEO about two things, the cost of inaction and the cost of delay.
33:58How much is a disengaged employee costing you currently?
34:06How much is presenteeism costing you?
34:09That person who sits in front of the computer but is not doing any work at all.
34:16Because absenteeism is costly, but it's simple to spot and easy to fix.
34:21It's a process.
34:22It's A to B.
34:23But presenteeism and disengagement, then you are in trouble because that person is still physically there,
34:30cognitively disengaged.
34:31So how much is this behavior costing you?
34:33Costing your business, absolutely.
34:34And that's when you turn it around and pretty much say, I'll pay you to hire me because I'm going
34:43to pay myself my salary
34:44with the savings that you're going to make in three, five years' time if I'm just able to fix 5
34:50% of your current symptoms.
34:53Right, right.
34:54So when we look at the numbers, it works out like that.
34:56The complication in wellness is that it's never because of the chief wellness officer alone.
35:02It's never because of the wellness function alone.
35:04So it's hard to prove that just because of this.
35:09But when you look at trends with a sufficient time horizon and you know what to measure and how to
35:15measure it,
35:16you are able to put two and two together.
35:18And again, the working example that I've done it and I've presented that data, and that's what supports the case.
35:26But there needs to be hope.
35:28You cannot expect ROI in six months or in one year.
35:33It's a matter of observing the development of the company over three to five years and setting milestones along the
35:38way
35:39so you are, okay, done, done, done.
35:41And are we trending in the right direction?
35:43And after three, five years, again, there is no plan B.
35:46So I would twist it around.
35:50How much is it costing you to remain like this?
35:52Right, right, right.
35:55If a CEO is listening and watching our podcast today, is there one thing that he can or she can
36:03do Monday morning to start this process?
36:08Is there an action that, if they were to implement, that will, you know, get people to listen?
36:17I would take a coffee in the cafeteria downstairs.
36:21I would walk through the corridors and I would start speaking to people and asking questions.
36:25Questions that will help that person become situated with the environment.
36:29Give me an example of a question.
36:32How much battery do you have in the tank the moment you go back to your family?
36:37Do you have energy to play with your kids?
36:40What can I do today to ensure that your battery is a little bit more full when you finish work?
36:45Questions that have very little to do with the size of your biceps, but about how you understand work and
36:53life.
36:53The most human questions are the ones that potentially are going to give the best outcomes when it comes to
36:59wellness.
36:59Nice, nice.
37:01Someone is listening to this conversation.
37:03What would be the one thing that you would like them to remember once this podcast is over?
37:10Good question.
37:13I would have a list of 10, but if I would have to choose one, wellness is a co-responsibility.
37:21It's the responsibility of the employer, but also the responsibility of the employee.
37:25It's a symbiosis.
37:27It's a mutual arrangement, an agreement.
37:29Just because you offer X, Y, Z, you cannot say, oh, you have not implemented this.
37:36And the employee shouldn't say that otherwise.
37:39It's teamwork from top to bottom to make sure that you are riding that wave together.
37:46That's how I would see it.
37:47Wellness is a core responsibility.
37:49Diego, thank you very much.
37:50I will continue to follow you.
37:53I think this is quite an inspirational conversation today.
37:56Something that I will be taking back to my own organization.
38:01And I hope many other CEOs would listen to this and take note of it.
38:04InshaAllah.
38:06Thank you so much.
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