- 2 minutes ago
Ghost of Yotei creative directors Nate Fox and Jason Connell sat down with our very own Andy Brown, to discuss Elden Ring, Breath of the Wild and the exciting new details revealed in the upcoming action/adventure RPG's recent State of Play.
Category
🎮️
GamingTranscript
00:07What kind of approach did you want to push that further than you already had?
00:08Jumping right into it, I love the showcase and the main thing that jumped out to me immediately was that
00:14it felt like Yotei was sort of leaning into that more natural feel of Tsushima where like the exploration isn't
00:21driven by UI's heavily, there's a lot more focus on discovery.
00:25What sort of approach at Studio, what made you want to push that further than you already had?
00:29Well, certainly it's part of, even in Ghost, you know, having elements like the wind as a diegetic element to
00:37get you through the world is certainly, we believe strongly in that and it resonated with our players for Tsushima.
00:43So combine that with when we decided we were making a game in Hokkaido or Ezo in this time period,
00:50which is just wild and epically large and vast and just filled with nature and we're like, oh, we should
00:56just keep pushing here.
00:57This seems like a natural fit. It's all about keeping people, you know, engaged and immersed in the world.
01:03And and we really like that design. It feels like it's a nice fit for Ghost.
01:07So for things like, you know, giant journals, which are, you know, a bit maybe, you know, been around for
01:13a long time, right?
01:14Like it's this giant list of all the things you've done and can do and will do.
01:20It's it's just kind of almost overwhelming.
01:23We have to try and come up with new ways to try to present you information while still being approachable
01:29people because, you know, people do want to explore and play the game in the different types of ways.
01:33Right. Some people really want to know where the golden path is and engage on engage in it.
01:38And some people, you know, maybe want to have a larger appetite for exploration just using a new spyglass, which
01:44is an exploration feature.
01:46You know, it's very simple, easy to use. You can pull it out, check out where you want to go
01:49and head there.
01:50Like this is our way of balancing sort of heading in a bit more diegetic sort of exploration driven area
01:56or way, but also sort of still celebrating the approachability of a ghost game.
02:00I mean, quite a common through line through some of the biggest games of sort of the last generation or
02:04two, like I think like Red Dead, Breath of the Wild, Elden Ring is that sort of really high emphasis
02:10on discovery.
02:11Do you think the option for making that sort of natural discovery and putting that front and center, do you
02:16think that's the most important thing an open world can sort of achieve at the moment?
02:20Or do you think there's something else that sort of comes into play?
02:22Yeah, I mean, I think I personally, Nate, I'd be curious what you think, but I definitely I feel like
02:26it's one of if you're going to make an open world game, at least for Nate and myself and our
02:31team and the beauty of the art team that we have.
02:35Our team is just so stellar. They're so capable and amazing at creating this type of landscape.
02:40What better way to celebrate it with great game design that encourages, you know, looking at the horizon and writing
02:47to it and rewarding people with cool side stories or interesting tales or, you know, meeting a weapon sensei that's
02:54going to give you a whole new access of play.
02:57That that to me is like, it's not just a game design thing. I think it really is celebrating an
03:01entire department of sucker punch and really putting it front and center.
03:05Amazing. I agree, Jason. You said it very well.
03:11And I guess at a more like mechanical level, while you're both sort of in the game yourselves, which areas
03:19of the sequel do you think sort of stand alone or feel more different than maybe other elements that stick
03:26closer to the original game?
03:28I'm very excited about the combat in Ghost of Tsushima.
03:32In Ghost of Tsushima, we tried very hard to create that lethal precision that you'd see in classic samurai films.
03:40And, you know, we really loved it. Players enjoyed it.
03:45And so we kept that strong foundation that made the samurai cinema experience happen.
03:51But with Yote, we've added on a lot more layers in order to create a more improvisational feel to the
04:00combat.
04:01And it's it's deep. We've replaced the stance system with weapons.
04:07In fact, we added a fifth one. So it's not just four, it's five.
04:11And these weapons are more than just a simple visual replacement.
04:15They have functional differences that make the game very, very different.
04:19For instance, if you have the Kasuragama, you can swing it above your head to do an area of effect
04:25kind of attack.
04:26If you've got the spear, you can use it to launch enemies backwards.
04:29So if you're near a cliff, you can send them off the cliff to their death.
04:33This is something that wasn't in Ghost of Tsushima with this kind of decision making.
04:39And on top of that, things like being able to disarm enemies or being disarmed yourself.
04:46Imagine what it would feel like to get disarmed when you're on top of a bridge and you lose your
04:50weapon far down below.
04:52Being able to pick up weapons, potentially a weapon you took off an enemy through disarm, throwing it at his
04:57buddy.
04:58On top of that, you've got these kind of quick fire weapons, including gunpowder and ranged weapons.
05:04There is a lot more going on in the combat in Ghost of Yota that gives players a lot of
05:10freedom to attack players in a greater variety of ways.
05:14Because I'm a really big fan of the disarm feature that you mentioned. I think it looks really cool.
05:18Do either of you have any features, I suppose in combat or outside, that maybe there wasn't Rupert Shorth in
05:24the showcase?
05:24But I don't know, maybe you remember that that's in the game. It happens while you test them through and
05:28you're like, yeah, this is a good call.
05:31Well, one of the aspects of the game that I'm really attached to is the way that the wolf operates
05:37with you as a combat buddy.
05:40We showed you a very small snippet of that inside of the state of play.
05:45It's much more elaborate and full figured. And I think the wolf is this character that, as we developed Ghost
05:52of Yota, grew and grew in the hearts of our colleagues.
05:56Because, man, it is very much kind of a center for the heart of connecting with not only combat where
06:03the wolf helps you, but just kind of the wildness that surrounds you.
06:07Is that wolf, is that a companion through the open world as well? Or will it turn up for specific
06:11levels? Because like you said, they haven't been shown off too much.
06:13The wolf is a wild animal that's kind of always at the edge of where you're at. It follows you,
06:20but it's not your dog at all. It is definitely a wild creature.
06:25And it will show up in some missions and it won't as well, because it won't just come because you
06:32call it in any random situation. It has a mind of its own.
06:35One of the things that really caught my eye was the bounty system that was shown off earlier in the
06:40week. The most interesting thing to me was that Atsu has her own bounty that changes through the game.
06:45How will that sort of rise in bounty over the game? How will that affect the player? Like what are
06:49the like immediate effects that we're gonna have to deal with?
06:51Adding bounties to the game world felt so perfect fit for the experience that we were going for.
07:01In both you hunting them down, which you saw and we're super excited about.
07:07And they're like a really fun way to just drive you through the landscapes, get some money, you know, as
07:16we mentioned in the state of play.
07:18Get some money to fuel your quest ahead. That's great.
07:21But it also is, if there's a landscape where people are putting bounties on people's heads, somebody's put one on
07:27yours.
07:27And we like this because it, first of all, tonally fits really nicely with the world and reflects sort of
07:33the danger of the landscape of the world.
07:36But also it's sort of seeing her legend grow, seeing the impact that she's done on the Yotei Six's sort
07:43of army of people that they're starting to sort of take notice.
07:48And each time that bounty goes up, there's an impact on the play experience.
07:54There's, you know, without going into a whole bunch of details, there is a changing landscape of different types of
07:58archetypes.
07:59And you might have some traps that, you know, happen as you kind of move through those bounties.
08:06As that bounty goes up, it's going to get more difficult for you and challenging.
08:10And, you know, that keeps it really exciting too.
08:12Because you mentioned traps, one thing I thought was really interesting was going down the Kitsune line.
08:17There's a super brief clip of the player being ambushed from people waiting in the snow.
08:22And I thought that looked super elaborate.
08:24Is that a specific ambush we're seeing?
08:25Or can these, are they quite reactive?
08:28Do the NPCs get quite sort of devious?
08:30We absolutely got so excited, Andy, I got to tell you.
08:34The day somebody said, all right, we're going to make a snow level.
08:39We'll have ninjas dressed in white.
08:42Because as you can imagine, right, everything's white in the snow and they could pop out of anywhere.
08:47That, in fact, is the case.
08:48It's not just a one-off event.
08:50The whole landscape where you meet them is one where you're always on guard.
08:55Because they could be laying in wait for you at any corner, either in the snow or in foliage.
09:04And that feeling of tension is wonderful.
09:07It makes you feel like you got to perk up your senses.
09:11Always have your hand ready on your sword so that you can react should an attack come.
09:17The combination of natural beauty and kind of hidden danger is our bread and butter.
09:23That's where this game really comes alive and we're very proud of it.
09:28I'm glad you spotted that in the state of play.
09:30I think it's very cool.
09:31Yeah, it looks fantastic.
09:32And something that's been talked about a little bit more, but again, not in too much detail, I would say,
09:37are the guns.
09:38I know earlier in the year, Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 made the sort of jump with it being historical to
09:43and guns.
09:43And it was quite a single-use sort of gun, very difficult to use.
09:48What's the balance in Ghost of Yutai?
09:50Is it something that you're maybe going to get one shot off before a fight or is it something that
09:54you can sort of spec into?
09:55At this time in history, there were absolutely firearms in Japan and they were very powerful.
10:02However, they were not incredibly efficient.
10:05You know, they could get wet.
10:07It wouldn't work.
10:08It's hard to reload.
10:09And so we wanted to kind of mimic that.
10:12It does take a little while to kind of load the gun.
10:18However, when you shoot it, it can do a lot of damage.
10:21And this is true for the time.
10:26However, there's something else going on here.
10:29The sword has to be the prime weapon of the game, right?
10:36Dual-wielding blades, spear, surigama.
10:39Because the fantasy is definitely about wielding these weapons, about being an excellent martial artist.
10:45Firearms have a role and they are incredibly deadly when used in the right time.
10:49But it's not like gun-kata where the firearm is the melee weapon.
10:58Blades are the heart of the fantasy.
10:59Do either of you have a favorite?
11:01I know it seems like quite a fluid mix between all of them.
11:03But do either of you have a favorite weapon that you find yourselves just coming back to, like...
11:07Even if it's maybe not the right move in one situation, but...
11:10Still swords.
11:10It's my jam.
11:12Immediate.
11:13Yep, that's the one.
11:14I love it.
11:14Oh, boy.
11:15I really like the spear because you can get people at a distance and you can knock people backwards.
11:24You feel very flexible and you're in command of a lot of range with that weapon.
11:31Looking outside of combat, one thing I really like the look of were the campsite features where a lot of
11:37those traditional open-world expectations come to you rather than being sought out.
11:42What was the sort of thought process behind putting more of the game into that sort of a campsite mechanic?
11:49So campsites originally came from sort of where most of our great ideas, I think, come from the team is
11:55thinking about the tone of the world and what makes sense for the landscape.
11:58We're in Ezo at the foot of this majestic Mount Yote.
12:01There's nature everywhere.
12:02The sightlines are way bigger than it was in our last game.
12:06So you just feel totally immersed in this, like, massive landscape.
12:10And what better way to really capitalize on that is, like, what would camping feel like?
12:14Feel like, you know, under the stars of Ezo, you know?
12:18And that question, you go put it in, you feel it, and you're like, this totally makes sense.
12:22And then very quickly, it became sort of a game design avenue where we could utilize, you know, camping, this
12:31tonally, you know, great experiential thing that fits within the universe, fits within land.
12:35It really marries well with it.
12:36But also accomplish some of our other goals, which is, how do we make the game, you know, pull the
12:41gamey barriers down and bring our explorers and our players features of the game in ways that kind of feel
12:51diegetic?
12:51You know, like, if you meet an armorish, armorsmith person or, you know, somebody with unique items, but you don't
12:58really have the money to get those upgrades right now, but you've made those relationships and you've established them, you've
13:03unlocked them, essentially.
13:04Then later on down the road, when you can, they might just appear at your site and remind you, or
13:09you might call them over to your site and then you set your campsite down.
13:13And it's just a way for us to sort of try to meet the players where they're at.
13:17You know, like, if you're over and exploring this landscape.
13:19Yeah, we have fast travel.
13:21It was really, you know, well received in the last game.
13:23You can kind of fast travel anywhere you've been.
13:25But like, why do I, I don't want to leave here.
13:26Like, maybe I'll just bring the person over I need to do, do my campsite, cook some fish, get an
13:31extra, you know, little spear ball.
13:34But then go right back out into the world with my now with my upgrades.
13:37I didn't really have to leave this place.
13:39It's just a way to create a more approachable game design for our players, but do it in a tonally
13:45sort of appropriate way that really builds up the world that we're making.
13:48That sounds fantastic.
13:49It generally sounds like there's been a lot of thought put into that sort of philosophy of trying to bring
13:54the player into the game.
13:55Is that something that you were both sort of prioritizing right off the bat for the sequel?
14:00Well, without a doubt, we want players to be in the world looking at the beautiful, beautiful landscape brought to
14:09life by, you know, Sucker Punch's environment art team, which just do a wonderful job.
14:14Having the landscape tell a story, provoke curiosity is something that helps players feel like they can just get lost
14:24in the moment.
14:24Gamey elements that feel like they're fourth wall breakers that take you out of the moment of being transported into
14:31your TV.
14:32We avoid some aspects.
14:35They're there, you know, like a health meter, because frankly, it's just so dang convenient to really crisply understand what's
14:41going on.
14:42But we strive to just put people in their imaginations into the world itself.
14:49In Ghost of Tsushima, we had the guiding wind feature that would say, oh, if you want to follow the
14:54story, go this way.
14:54But of course, it's suggestion. And on the way to that objective, you'll probably get distracted by something that catches
15:03your eye.
15:04That's a lovely experience. And it's driven entirely by the player.
15:08And that's where the magic of open world games really comes alive for us. And we invest in it heavily.
15:14Just on the topic of you bringing up that sort of open world magic and that feeling of sort of
15:18very naturally going from one thing to the other.
15:20When you think about that feeling, apart from Ghost of Tsushima, what games have either of you played that you
15:29just immediately think of as an example of feeling that magic of being sort of lost in the game for
15:32that time?
15:33Oh, man. Breath of the Wild, Elden Ring.
15:36Elden Ring, Breath of the Wild. Those are the two I was going to say.
15:39They're so like great at that. It's their bar setting in that way.
15:44Yeah. How do you balance that sort of emphasis on immersion with functionality with people who, again, like you said,
15:51you still don't want to give away all of your tools for the sake of immersion?
15:55So still see health. Are there other ways, for example, sort of consistently attract a merchant to your camp so
16:02you can have that option?
16:03Or is it still is it not entirely in the play's hands who turns up?
16:06It's a little bit of both, right? Like so there's we showed a little bit of it, but we didn't
16:10go into details.
16:11But in the state of play, there was that Wolfpack menu.
16:12And that is all the people that you've sort of met and that have, you know, either missions or content
16:17for you.
16:17Or, you know, we talk about weapons and say they might have some extra skills for you for that particular
16:21weapon.
16:21We keep kind of a place that we can keep track of it. That's not just a word bomb journal
16:26that has a ton of stuff you have to sort of read.
16:28It's like, no, that that person that you might remember the face and the way that they looked, you might
16:31be able to drill down to it.
16:33And for not every single one of them, but for many of them, you might be able to say, hey,
16:37I would like to see that person.
16:39Bring them to your campsite. You can set up camp and they will be sort of almost as if you're
16:43summoning them in a way.
16:44Right. Like it's a way for us to really directly say, I want to talk to this person.
16:49Then also just under the hood, if you're not engaging with that menu and you're out camping and you just
16:53camp to do a multitude of other other things,
16:56we might have a queue going in the background and say, hey, this person actually has something unique for you
17:01that you can afford right now.
17:02Then we might we might put that towards you because we know that, you know, this bow upgrade is really
17:07great and players might really enjoy it if they get it.
17:10So we might kind of front load that. So it's a little bit of both.
17:12We have a little bit of a system to try to make sure that you're getting access to these people.
17:17But there's also the player decides that they want to just go and pull that person in. They can do
17:21that as well.
17:22Earlier in the year, Assassin's Creed Shadows launched and the recent showcase showed a few things that were present in
17:29that are sort of similar touchstones.
17:31So, you know, like that big traditional revenge epic story, the clue card sort of investigative drive.
17:36What was it like to presumably have a lot of these things in development for a long time and see
17:41another studio also lean in that direction?
17:44Was it was a bracing for you? Was it how did it feel?
17:47You know, we're big fans of feudal Japan and open world games and to see another one on the market
17:54is exciting as gamers, right?
17:56We make the game that we want to play and to see more like that. It's great.
18:01Our game is our own game. It features the things that we cherish.
18:06Our story of revenge is a classic in samurai cinema, but it's just the first step in this long tale
18:15of Atsu going from this broken lone wolf to assembling a wolf pack and she changes.
18:22Her identity is an unreal moving through the land where people grow to fear her and love her.
18:31It's its own experience. We can't wait for people to play it. Of course, we don't want to give away
18:35story details, but I can tell you that her quest for revenge is the start.
18:41It's absolutely not the whole thing, but it's a great start.
18:46I think that as creators like you it's you know, this is this is just the thing that, you know,
18:51you you you run into, you know, like and Nate said it best like we are huge fans of this
18:56stuff.
18:56So if other media comes out, whether it's a video game or a film or a TV show, we're kind
19:02of happy to that it exists because it just drives drives the storytelling in this medium for the experiences in
19:09this medium forward.
19:10So for us, it's it's it's it's really exciting. But as creators, you know, we're making our own thing hyper
19:15focus on how to bring the best version of a ghost game to life, the best version of Atsu's vengeance
19:21tale to life, which does grow to be this quite awesome experience.
19:24And it's different than just the very beginning of the of the very beginning is for vengeance tale.
19:29So for us, I think it's as great as we really hyper focus on what's what's the best video game
19:32that Sucker Punch could make and everything else is just kind of consumer.
19:38We get to play and we get to check it out and it's we're excited it exists.
19:41Amazing. Thank you both so much for making the time for that. That was really interesting to hear.
Comments