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A space to discuss what it actually takes to advocate for your own care in a system built to dismiss you. Dr. Munirah Bomani walks attendees through her self-advocacy framework, then the room workshops it together — bring a real situation you're navigating.
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00:00All right, y'all. Can everybody hear me? Okay. Okay, this is a... So, quick question.
00:08Who's first time is it in the talking circle? Raise your hands.
00:12Okay, mine too.
00:13First time in the talking circle this weekend, ladies? First time?
00:16Yes.
00:17So this is very different for me because all the talking circles that have been happening...
00:22Let me make sure I'm set up correctly here.
00:24Yeah, adjust.
00:25Adjust.
00:26Adjust.
00:26Adjust. We must adjust.
00:28Adjust. Oh, and not make things fall...
00:31Okay, hold on one second, everybody.
00:32Let me get this out of the way.
00:36Yeah, I just want to get...
00:37Hold on.
00:43Okay, y'all. She's stage managing.
00:45She's hosting.
00:47She's speaking.
00:50But this conversation is different for me in the circle because I actually am going to be in conversation.
00:56Yay!
00:57Yay!
00:57Because I have been holding space for conversation this weekend.
01:00But just to give you a little rundown of, like, where we are, what's happening.
01:04So you are in the Unbothered talking circle, okay?
01:08Unbothered is a sister brand to Essence.
01:11We're part of Refinery29.
01:13And we exist to help black women feel seen, feel heard, feel celebrated.
01:17And my name is Erica Chitty.
01:19I am now the Senior Vice President of Brand and Editorial Content for Unbothered.
01:25And I got brought on, actually joined the brand in February to help evolve the brand from entertainment and culture
01:33towards well-being and culture.
01:36So that's a big part of what this space is about.
01:39Most of my life, about 15, almost 20 years now, I have focused on helping women tell the stories of
01:47their bodies, not only to themselves, but to each other.
01:49I was a full-spectrum doula for many, many years, writer, founder.
01:55I built a women's health company that was a women's health information app.
01:59That company was acquired.
02:00And then I had a little bit of time to myself.
02:03And then I found myself here.
02:04And so, you know, I really exist to help people figure out how to feel more connected.
02:10And so when we were planning for festival, I was like, no panel, no stage.
02:16I was like, I really want a different experience where everybody feels, hello.
02:22Hi.
02:23Where everybody feels like they can be a part of something and that their internal knowledge, their embodied knowledge is
02:30valuable and can be a part of this bigger conversation.
02:34So, hence the Talking Circle.
02:36So I don't know when the last time is that you sat in circle with a bunch of other people,
02:40but hopefully there's more of this in your life from here because in this very hyper-digital world we live
02:47inside of, we need to be connecting more.
02:49And the actual physical space is designed to do that.
02:53There's also, if you haven't seen, there's breast health screenings to the left.
02:56So please make sure if you have time to get an appointment to do that.
03:00We would love to have that happen.
03:01And so the circle has a couple of guidelines to it.
03:06So in the circle, there's no expert.
03:08There's no, like, speaker vibes.
03:10It's three roles.
03:11The first is the keeper.
03:13The keeper is here to make sure a conversation keeps flowing and that you feel like you're being taken care
03:17of, passing you a mic when it's time for you to speak, or a tissue if there's a tear that's
03:21falling.
03:22That's going to be me.
03:23I'm going to be your keeper.
03:24And then we have our anchors.
03:25So, well, in this case, one anchor, Ms. Erica Hart, is going to be basically giving us, offering us wisdom,
03:35taking us through this conversation together.
03:37And then we have the circle, which is all of y'all.
03:40So we want you to lean in and participate as we're talking about Love Island and what it means to
03:47us as a community.
03:49But before we do that, we're going to do one quick thing.
03:51So we always open every single circle with a clearing, and the clearing is super quick.
03:55We're going to rub our hands together, and then we're going to clap.
03:57And the reason we do it is to kind of keep everything that was out there out there and to
04:01help us drop into whatever we're doing in here together.
04:04Okay?
04:05All right.
04:05Hold on.
04:06Let's rub our hands together real fast.
04:10All right.
04:11Take a deep breath.
04:11Just, like, relax your shoulders.
04:13And on three, we're just going to clap one time.
04:15Okay?
04:16One, two, three.
04:20Amazing.
04:21Very good.
04:21Not every circle is coordinated.
04:23Yes.
04:24Okay.
04:26So.
04:27Hi.
04:27Hi.
04:28All right.
04:28Let's get into it.
04:29So, wait.
04:30Before we start, who would be watching Love Island here?
04:33Oh, good.
04:34Oh, good.
04:35Oh, good.
04:36Oh, this is going to be robust.
04:38This is going to be robust.
04:39Yes.
04:39You know, it's always so nice because not everybody has checked into the asylum that is Love Island, right?
04:44Some of us have continued on our lives.
04:46Some of us are free.
04:47Some of us are free.
04:48Some of us are free.
04:49Yeah.
04:49Okay, wait.
04:50So, before we start, I want you to introduce yourself.
04:52I want you to talk, just give us a little, a little bit of info for those who don't know
04:55about your, your robust existence in our universe.
05:01Hi, everyone.
05:02My name is Erica Hart.
05:04I'm looking at you like, what is my name?
05:06It's your name.
05:07It's my name.
05:07My name is Erica Hart.
05:09My pronouns are she and they.
05:12I am a black, queer, non-binary sex educator.
05:16I've been teaching sex ed for the past 15 some odd years to young people, as young as kindergarten, all
05:22the way up to the collegiate level.
05:25And I'm also a breast cancer survivor, so you may or may not have seen me.
05:29Shout out.
05:30You may or may not have seen me topless on the internet because I went topless at Afropunk 10 years
05:36ago this year, actually, to raise awareness amongst black folks who are oftentimes kept out of conversations of breast cancer
05:45advocacy, and in particular, black, queer, and trans people.
05:48So, I've been topless in many places, so you may or may not have seen me.
05:52Yeah.
05:52I'm clothed today, though.
05:54She's clothed.
05:54She's clothed, y'all.
05:55I'll keep my shirt on.
05:56I'll keep my shirt on.
05:57But I really love you.
05:58I love your work.
05:59We've really grown up together in this space.
06:01We have.
06:02We have.
06:02We really have.
06:02We really have.
06:03We really have, yeah.
06:04So, unsurprising that we both are into Love Island.
06:08So, I think the first thing I want to say about Love Island, so people that know me, y'all
06:13are meeting me today for, like, the first time, but if you know me, you know me in the world,
06:17people are very surprised that I am tuned into Love Island because they're like, oh, that's, like, such a vapid
06:22show.
06:23This is a silly show.
06:23I can't believe you're spending your time with reality TV.
06:25Now, mind you, I watch a lot of reality TV because I see it as an anthropological, ethnographical, it's a
06:33snapshot of our nation.
06:34You like it, you don't like it.
06:35It is a version of the truth.
06:37What do you think?
06:38Yes.
06:38I agree.
06:39I actually want to know what other reality TV you watch.
06:42You might as well just reveal it.
06:44Ma'am.
06:44Because some people didn't raise their hands for Love Island, but some people watch other stuff.
06:48Ma'am, I don't know if you want to know where I really be spending my time.
06:50Yeah, I want to know.
06:51Okay, so I am a Bravo Universe person.
06:53Okay, yes, of course.
06:56Yes, thank you.
06:56Come on.
06:57And, Anne, I now am a Sierra devotee.
07:00Okay.
07:01I had not, I had not touched Summer House.
07:03Okay, I haven't really watched Summer House, but I've been seeing the conversation.
07:06I came in for the discourse.
07:07Yes.
07:07The discourse is men are trash.
07:09Sorry.
07:10Love you guys, but that was basically the discourse of the show.
07:12It's true.
07:13But I watched it in order to discover, okay?
07:16Yeah.
07:17In order to discover that.
07:19I like, I do really like Housewives.
07:21I wish, so my entry into reality TV was,
07:25Housewives of Atlanta.
07:26Okay.
07:27Because.
07:27Naturally.
07:28Naturally, right?
07:28Okay.
07:29Because that's really where it all began.
07:32Nini is the universe of reality TV.
07:34Miss Nini.
07:35Yes.
07:35The queen.
07:36Patron saint.
07:37Yes.
07:38And then, you know, I kind of also find myself, I like to watch a lot of food shows, too.
07:43Okay.
07:43Because I like to just like see like food.
07:45You would count that as reality?
07:46Some of it, yeah.
07:47Okay.
07:47Because it's a little constructed.
07:48Okay.
07:48And then, I think my other kind of big obsession, and I'm really sad that it's over right now.
07:54I'm trying to, oh my gosh, not, it's another, it's a, Age of Attraction.
07:59I liked Age of Attraction.
08:01Yeah.
08:01I liked it.
08:02Okay.
08:02I liked it.
08:03That takes a lot to admit.
08:04Yeah.
08:04Okay.
08:05I didn't, I didn't mind.
08:05I thought it was a good format.
08:07Okay.
08:07What about you?
08:07What about you?
08:08Um, I, I hated Age of Attraction.
08:10I refused to watch it actually in protest because I think it's weird.
08:15It's a slippery slope.
08:16But I'm going to need you to watch it.
08:17I'm going to need to watch it.
08:18And then return to protest.
08:19I'm going to need to watch it.
08:19Return to protest with details.
08:21Yes.
08:21With details.
08:22But I think I can admit in this space, I watch Married at First Sight, Love is Blind.
08:28Yes.
08:28I'm Housewives Universe.
08:30I love, I started, I didn't see Housewives when it was on live.
08:34I watched, I binged New Jersey.
08:36I binged New York.
08:38And then I stopped watching New York when all the OGs got fired because I'm like, yes,
08:43they are all racist and they needed to go, but that is New York.
08:47That is New York.
08:47It's a version of New York.
08:48They are white racist people in New York and that is what it gives.
08:51But they needed to go.
08:52But then when they got a new cast, it was a hot mess.
08:54Atlanta, I mean, there's no other, there's no other Housewife Universe other than Atlanta.
09:01Like they literally set the standard.
09:03They really did.
09:03I also, I love 90 Day Fiancé.
09:06Woo!
09:07How do we not talk about this?
09:08That's what I was missing.
09:09It's because I'm tired.
09:10It's because I'm tired.
09:11We are day three of festival, y'all.
09:12So I'm tired.
09:1390 Day Fiancé is good.
09:15But not just 90 Day Fiancé.
09:16The whole universe.
09:18The whole universe.
09:18Before the 90 days.
09:20After the 90 days.
09:21I just wrapped them before the 90 days this season.
09:24Lots going on in there.
09:25Lots going on.
09:26Lots going on.
09:26Lots going on.
09:27Again.
09:27I mean, that could have been a whole other talk.
09:29I mean, we'll get there next year.
09:30Next year.
09:31Next year.
09:31Come back next year for 90 Day Fiancé.
09:33We're going to get into that.
09:3390 Day Fiancé talk.
09:34But let's get into Love Island.
09:35I want to hear just like, what's your like top level tea, your top level take.
09:39Of this season, right?
09:40This season.
09:41Okay, Erica.
09:42I want to hear it because I have thoughts too.
09:45Top level tea.
09:46Okay.
09:47I'm going to back out too because I want to be able to see y'all to the left of
09:49me.
09:50All right.
09:51First and foremost, I do want to say that I wrote a book and it's out.
09:55Okay.
09:55It's right across the way being sold at the book festival.
09:59And I say all that to say my book is called Nasty Work.
10:01And in the book, I talk.
10:03Hey, hello.
10:05She has a book, y'all.
10:05She has a book.
10:06She has a book.
10:07She has a book.
10:07She has a book.
10:07Somebody.
10:07She has a book.
10:08I did not pay her to do that.
10:09No.
10:09I did not.
10:10No.
10:12Oh, that's so cool.
10:13But in said book, I have a chapter on Love Island.
10:17And the reason why I discuss it, because as a sex educator, I can see all these themes
10:23and the ways that we are being really indoctrinated to perform relationships, sexuality, desire, dating,
10:32in this really like pressure cooker of a show, right?
10:37The whole premise is that the best couple wins, right?
10:43Which really puts on a pedestal relationships.
10:46Because when people get voted off, what do they say?
10:50You are single and vulnerable, right?
10:54So that language of you are single and vulnerable and there's something wrong with that and now
11:00you have to go, right?
11:01And some of the best relationships that we see actually form on the show are relationships
11:05between friends, right?
11:07People that are becoming, friend, those are the most compatible even relationships.
11:11So much of this is very much forced inside of cisgender heterosexuality as well, because
11:19there's not many fat folks on the show.
11:21This year they have probably one of the first visibly disabled people.
11:26There's barely been any fat people.
11:28I mean, somebody was like maybe a size 12 in our past season.
11:31Right?
11:31So they're really trying to tell us that the people who deserve relationships are thin,
11:36they're cisgender, they're heterosexual, they don't talk about anything but babies and
11:41marriage, right?
11:42You don't hear them talking about politics on the show.
11:44They don't talk about really even their family dynamic.
11:47Nothing, right?
11:47It's very basic.
11:49And how can I win this relationship?
11:51Which then is a promise of $100,000.
11:54So then you have the capitalism aspect, too, that says, well, because you are donned as
12:00a relationship, you also deserve money.
12:02But none of the people who come on the show who are single and vulnerable, single folks
12:05don't deserve nothing.
12:06You don't deserve anything.
12:08It's just the couples, right?
12:10So what is the messaging that we're getting from that?
12:13You asked me what I think about this season.
12:15Yes.
12:15Okay.
12:16That's my spiel for the show at large, okay?
12:21One of the biggest things that come out of Love Island is colorism and anti-blackness.
12:27Typically, and y'all know, yes, I hate to clap for that, but it's true.
12:32We understand that Love Island comes from the UK, right?
12:35They've only started doing it in the US for the past eight seasons.
12:39In the UK, we see dark-skinned black women go on the show, and they are immediately voted
12:44off, right?
12:45And oftentimes, it is, oh, you're not my type.
12:48My type is typically the white people colorism of blonde hair, blue eyes, or what do they
12:54say?
12:55Dark and handsome, which I'm like, what do white people mean when they say that?
12:59What are you talking about?
12:59They're not describing a black person, right?
13:02So even when we see the same thing in the US, where a lot of black people who do not
13:09have
13:09proximity to Eurocentric beauty standards are literally voted off pretty quickly.
13:14So with this season, I see so much vitriol towards Aniyah, right?
13:20And I think because Aniyah has literally, I mean, she is unambiguously black, right?
13:25A dark-skinned black woman.
13:27And typically, the messaging that we have about dark-skinned black women is that they're not
13:32deserving of relationships.
13:33They're not deserving of being tender, of being soft, right?
13:37They're supposed to struggle.
13:39We're supposed to see them super upset and angry, and then we're supposed to literally
13:43discard them.
13:45So in the commentary I see about Aniyah, and then also the production of it, too, I'm
13:50like, we're creating the same narrative.
13:52Well, you know what's interesting about Aniyah?
13:55And I have a lot of thoughts about it.
13:57I'm scared.
13:57Yeah.
13:58You stay close to me, though.
14:00You stay close to me.
14:00I'm scared.
14:01Wait, be scared, but stay close.
14:03So my thing about Aniyah is multilayered, because I have some compassion for Casey, because day
14:12one, night one, Mr. I Love Plants opens that door, nobody there, okay?
14:19Now, a couple weeks later, when he was talking about not why he chose Titi, right, because it's
14:27not connected to that, but when he talked about Titi, he talked about that first night, and
14:32he was like, when I opened that door, nobody was there.
14:35You feel me?
14:36He said that.
14:37Yeah.
14:37And I remember Ariana's eyes, at least the edit, she was like, you know, she understood
14:41that.
14:41So the reality is, when we think about everything that you're saying is correct, the colorism,
14:47the anti-blackness, et cetera, but she did not choose Casey that first night.
14:51And I think that that kind of set up this arc where he was trying, they were, as a couple,
15:00trying to create something, but I don't ever think it was based on authenticity.
15:05I don't ever think that it was based on her being like, oh, this is my man, actually, this
15:09is what I want, right?
15:10And the reality is for men, and I can't speak for men, I am not a man, and I actually
15:14do
15:14not want to speak for men, but what I will say is rejection, right?
15:18Rejection sensitivity, the kind of psychic architecture rejection sets up, I think fueled
15:26his trajectory for the rest of the show, right?
15:30And so what is stressful to me about Anaya is that that was not her first choice.
15:37So especially what we don't see in the edit, she was not fully leaned in.
15:41And I think that's actually why it feels the way that it feels.
15:46And so her anger, her upsetness about Casey coming back with somebody else has, I think,
15:53a little bit, and this is nothing to do, love you, Anaya, it's not personal, but it has
15:58a little bit to do with privilege, right?
16:01I think she was just like, you should stay with me because we are, and Kiki was kind of
16:07tapping into this when she was here two days ago, you and I are the two dark-skinned black
16:13people in this house.
16:14We should be, you know, locked into each other for all of the reasons that we should be,
16:20right?
16:20The unspoken reasons in our community why we're going to show up for each other and
16:24choose each other.
16:24Yeah.
16:25But she didn't do that to begin with.
16:26So I think it just made things super rocky.
16:29And then for her to get upset now, the reality also is, and I'm sorry, y'all, I'm really going
16:35in here, but more than likely, given Anaya's socioeconomic background, she probably went
16:41to a private white institution or a public school that had that type of setup, right?
16:46So the reality actually is, is when she started connecting with Carl, y'all, we were very excited
16:51outside here.
16:52We were Brandy and whatever the Prince is in the Cinderella movie, like people were like,
16:58we're going to Malaysia, we're ready.
16:59But that had less to do with their ethnicities and their backgrounds, but actually about where
17:04they grew up and how they've lived and that there's actually more of a match there.
17:08And I remember when Michelle was saying, oh, he's not even really about your life.
17:14Like he doesn't even fit into your life.
17:15I took so many layers from that because what she was saying had more to do with the socioeconomic
17:22read than a, I don't know if his, his insides are really like matching into your life.
17:28So when she, so when Anaya was standing up and angry at Casey, I was like, this doesn't
17:33really match the setting.
17:35You were actually never fully locked into this.
17:39And this man felt that.
17:40And that's why he had to go choose himself.
17:42So that's, that's how I feel about it.
17:45And it's no love to, it's like no love lost on Anaya, but that's not who she was writing
17:49for, for real.
17:50And, and that needs to be felt.
17:52And that's, I think what's been going on.
17:53I know how y'all feel, but that's really, that's the tea.
17:56I completely disagree.
17:59Woo!
17:59Let's go, girl!
18:00I want to hear it!
18:03Let's hear it.
18:04Anaya was also not chosen on that first day.
18:08And what I will say, I know Anaya stood behind Sincere's door, right?
18:13It was sincere that she stood, so she wanted to get to know more.
18:16However, Casey stood behind the plant door because he thought more women would want to
18:21be over there.
18:22And I think that that showed Casey's intentions on the show.
18:27It's like, how can I get a woman and avoid rejection if I don't just show up as my true
18:34authentic self?
18:35And I think my biggest issue with Casey is that you don't have to match on the first
18:40day to be connected, right?
18:42You can, you can match down the line.
18:44You can see that potentially there's a, you know, a connection somewhere else.
18:47And I think that's what happened with Anaya and Casey, because to me, a lot of people
18:52said, oh, I don't see their connection.
18:53They're not compatible.
18:54I think they're actually quite compatible.
18:56I think that the letter writing, I felt like their conversations were dope.
19:00So where Casey had me, I was crying, was when he was talking about, I love dark-skinned
19:06women and dark-skinned women are the blueprint, direct quote, the blueprint.
19:12And then what did he do?
19:14He said, dark-skinned women get the short and the stick.
19:17And then what did he do?
19:17He treated a dark-skinned woman like absolute dog shit.
19:20And I personally have been watching Love Island for quite some time.
19:25And yes, people will go to Casa Amor.
19:27They will go and hook up with other people and they will come back with their literal
19:31tail between their legs.
19:33And I think why Anaya was so upset is because he saw her upset.
19:37We didn't see all that stuff.
19:39She didn't see all that stuff he was saying at Casa Amor, but he said, I did this for
19:42myself, not Anaya.
19:44And I felt like you see that she's upset, but somehow you're not connecting with how
19:50she feels, right?
19:51It's like you are completely disregarding her feelings and only thinking about yourself
19:57entirely.
19:57And also, that grandma comment?
20:01Nah.
20:02Well, okay.
20:03Now, here's the thing.
20:05Yeah.
20:05I'm not, I'm going to lean in and say I agree with a couple of things that you're talking
20:09about, right?
20:10Yeah.
20:10Like, I get you in the sense of him saying black women are the blueprint, dark-skinned
20:16black women specifically.
20:17And the reality is, like, he didn't deviate from that choice in terms of who he's actually
20:21choosing to be with now.
20:23But Sol?
20:24But Sol is no longer there.
20:26But he was interested.
20:27Yes.
20:28But he didn't, but he didn't do it.
20:30Like, there's, and let me tell you, there's a difference between being like, I kind of,
20:33yeah, I'm kind of, and then not actually actioning it.
20:35And so I do think that is worth leaving on the table to say he didn't actually go, he didn't
20:40do anything, he could have done a, he could have pulled a Corbin and a Kenzie thing.
20:43But was he not doing it because he wanted to stay safe and stay, again, there's a money
20:48factor, you win the show, was he not doing it because he could have lost a good connection?
20:53I mean, look, I can't say the motivation behind the yes or the no of it, but I do think
20:59though, especially as two black women, I think we have to hold, and you do what you need
21:04to do, but I feel like we have to hold the line of being able to see both sides compassionately
21:09because I do think that Anaya, where she's coming from, I do understand, but I also understand
21:14where Casey's coming from.
21:15I think that there's just, because what I'm not liking, what I'm not liking right now
21:19on the internet is the mutual vitriol towards both of them.
21:23There's no safety offered for either of them inside of this dialogue right now.
21:27And so I just think that we need to just hold space for the multiplicity of the situation
21:33versus being like, it's this or it's that.
21:36However, I do think we should talk about Corbin.
21:40Even just for a minute.
21:41Even just for a hot minute.
21:42Let's do it.
21:42What are your thoughts about ChatGPT?
21:46It's definitely going to be ChatGPT, but also the thing that I actually wanted to talk
21:50about, I'm so glad we got here, is that most of those folks in the villa are
21:57pandemic high schoolers.
21:59Yes.
21:59Yes.
22:00So like the way that they were socialized.
22:02Yes.
22:03It's Zoom school.
22:04It's like your life has completely halted.
22:07Yes.
22:07You don't know what the kind of, you know, the psychic energy at home was with parents
22:11being not going to work.
22:13You know?
22:14Yeah.
22:14And so I think there's a little bit of that going on in how some of these people are,
22:19I think.
22:20And I do think that Corbin's only, what, 22?
22:22Yeah.
22:22He's a baby.
22:22So I think that that might be a part of it too.
22:25Like it's different to how you and I were socialized in high school.
22:28100%.
22:28Yes.
22:29I think, I think Corbin is, Corbin is absolutely somebody from Miami, is what I will say.
22:37He's a racially ambiguous mixed race.
22:40I think he is.
22:41I think he's Blasian.
22:42I believe.
22:43I believe.
22:43I think so.
22:44I think so.
22:44Don't quote me on that.
22:45Don't quote me.
22:45But I think he is absolutely colorist, right?
22:49Like when they were doing that weird bedroom challenge and Anaya came over to like kiss
22:55him, he was like, like he looked repulsed.
22:58Yeah.
22:58And the fact that he doesn't seem interested in getting to know any of the dark, he didn't
23:03try to pull Trinity.
23:05He never tried to pull Anaya.
23:06True.
23:06Right?
23:07He went right for Kinsey, right?
23:09Which was, and then Melanie sort of too, but Melanie has just been, you know, so focused
23:14on sincere.
23:14And I, you know, one of my good friends was like, I think Corbin and Melanie would have
23:18made sense.
23:19I don't, I don't know.
23:21You don't think so?
23:22You don't think so?
23:23You can see that, right?
23:24You can see that.
23:25Also, I'm going to prep this mic because I think we probably have five more minutes.
23:28Oh my God, please chime in.
23:29Does anyone want to say anything to us about anything?
23:32Oh my God, we have so many things to talk about still.
23:34Miss ma'am.
23:34Five minutes is just not enough.
23:36I know.
23:37We're just too short.
23:38We're going to, we're going to re-find it.
23:39Hi.
23:39Morning.
23:40Good morning, everyone.
23:42I have been in this Love Island conversation so deep, and I respect everyone's opinions
23:49about it.
23:51And unfortunately, when you watch TV and you're in life, you try to just be surface level
23:57and be like, everything's not that deep.
23:58But unfortunately, it is that deep.
24:01It is that deep.
24:01And sometimes it can become tiring to stand on business, especially when you're standing
24:07alone.
24:08But hey, I'm good for that.
24:10But I just want to kind of go back to the grandma comment really quickly.
24:14That was a very deep comment because I think when we talk about intimacy and affection, in
24:22that space, I guess the Love Island space, it makes sense for there to maybe be something
24:27extra going on.
24:28When in reality, Anaya gave a lot of intimacy, the hugs, the kisses, a lot of times they kiss
24:34too much, if you ask me.
24:36But there was something so deep and nasty about that grandma comment that I think kind of went
24:44over everyone's head.
24:46But for me, that's when it started where I was like, Casey, no, we were rooting for you.
24:49What are you doing?
24:50And then for you to have that conversation with someone who we know is in this house doing
24:56the fool.
24:57And a lot of times, like I tell my friends, how somebody talks about you with their homeboys
25:02or with their friends is what matters the most.
25:04Period.
25:05So I just thought that that was not a good look for Casey.
25:08And I think that's where this started, where we all kind of were raising our eyebrows.
25:12Absolutely.
25:13Absolutely.
25:14And the expectation that you have that you're entitled to a woman's body, right?
25:18And then calling her out of her name to assert that, well, I'm not getting, he said, I'm
25:23not getting anything.
25:24As if, what is it that you want, right?
25:27What is it that you are expecting from her?
25:31You know what I mean?
25:31Like that felt like, what are we, what are we teaching everybody, but especially young
25:37boys about how, you know, to regard a woman's body, like as if that means something about
25:43you, because as soon as he went to Casa Amor and got with Titi, it was like, well, I want
25:48her because she wants me, right?
25:50And it's like, is that all it is, right?
25:52Is that all it's about?
25:53You know what I mean?
25:54Also, the thing that's so wild to me too, about the grandma comment, because I'm with
25:57you, I feel you on, I also was just like, firstly, it also just gave dumb to me.
26:02I was like, really, we doing this?
26:04Like, what is this?
26:05And then secondly, though, we had an amazing talk here in our talking circle yesterday with
26:09a sexologist talking about how women in their sixties plus are having some of the
26:13best sex of their lives.
26:15So this idea that grandma and being old means you no longer have it, there was just so many
26:19problems and so many stigmas that he was leaning into that also just made me give, like, just
26:27gave confusion to me too.
26:29And I think that you're feeling this idea of that maybe it went over everyone's head
26:35or went over people's head, I think is also true because it's just, there's so many layers.
26:39So I'm really glad that you brought that up for sure.
26:41All right, y'all, we probably have time for one more thought and then we're going to wrap.
26:49Hi, mine is actually a question for both of you.
26:53So I'm a person who doesn't watch Love Island and hearing you talk about it, it seems really
26:59interesting, but as a black woman, it also makes me sad.
27:02So I'm wondering why you watch it, why you still watch it?
27:06Well, it's a great question.
27:08You know what, I'm gonna let Erica go first and I'll close this out.
27:11I will close this out.
27:13You know, I started watching Love Island as a reprieve to, like, turn my brain off.
27:19But then there was a season, I don't, don't quote, I don't remember the season, but there
27:23was a woman who whenever she talked to men, she would talk in like a baby talk.
27:28You know what I'm talking about?
27:29And she'd be like, hi, like, hi.
27:31And I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait, why is she doing that?
27:33Wait, what's happening?
27:34And what are the, what are the connotations of that?
27:37Right?
27:37Why is that?
27:38Why is baby talk sexual?
27:40You know what I mean?
27:41And what have we, so much of desirability just straight up is rooted in pedophilia.
27:46Right?
27:47And that being desirable, then my brain is on.
27:49And now I'm like, wait, what is Love Island trying to indoctrinate us into?
27:54What is the reality that they're trying to force?
27:58So I think that's why I watch it.
27:59It does actually make me sad, but I watch it because I want to call out what a massive
28:05production company is trying to convince us is normal, right?
28:09In an age where we're not seeing trans women on television being loved openly and out loud.
28:15Why aren't trans people on Love Island, right?
28:18Why aren't queer people on Love Island?
28:19You don't watch Love Island, but there's a big joke about two character or two contestants
28:24right now, Bryce and Zach, Bryce and Zach.
28:28Where they're incredibly affectionate with each other, right?
28:31Almost like they're making homosexuality like a joke, right?
28:35And the fact that nobody else, none of the other couples are like, well, maybe y'all need
28:39to couple up and production is not trying to do that.
28:42It also kind of makes a mockery of queerness.
28:44So I talk about it to truly over-intellectualize, but I do have to take breaks from it because
28:51as a, you know, a fat queer person, my body is, I'm never going to walk around anywhere
28:57with a bathing suit and high heels.
28:59Okay.
29:00I don't care who desires me.
29:02Even beyond the body, girl, I'm not doing that either.
29:04The more I watch it, I have to watch myself because I'm like, wait, should I wear high heels
29:07in a basement?
29:08No, no, no, no, no.
29:10Should I say, do you want to have a chat?
29:12Should I pull you for a chat?
29:14Like, pulling you for a chat now?
29:15Yes.
29:16Okay.
29:16So I am going to also have a very similar, almost similar thing to say about this as
29:22Erica.
29:22So I'm going to tell you this.
29:24I, as a reality TV stan, did not watch Love Island initially for the first, even when
29:31it was in the UK, because I love me some UK reality TV too, because I was like, this
29:36is way too many episodes.
29:37It's about 40 episodes in the UK.
29:40The episodes are anywhere from 40 to 90 minutes long.
29:44I was like, who has the time?
29:46Who has the dedication?
29:47So it was a no for me for a long time.
29:49But not this past, not this past season, but the season before, Serena, these girls, these
29:56dark star girls with the boho braids, like started to pop up.
29:59And I was very like interested.
30:00I was like, oh, more girls that look like me.
30:02I like this.
30:03And so it was actually the casting that started to pull me in because the casting started
30:07a ring, ding, ding for me.
30:09And then, you know, also even last season, when we think about Ohlandria, Ohlandria Hive,
30:14please stand up.
30:15Whether you listen to, you're seeing her on the show or otherwise, I really love the arc,
30:21the narrative arc that dark skinned women are having on the show by the end of it.
30:25Like right now, what we're seeing with the Naya is very challenging, but I love what I'm
30:28seeing with Trinity.
30:29I love what happened with the Landria last year.
30:32And it's like, there's a platform that's starting to happen and maybe production is
30:36making that happen or not.
30:37But I like to see us.
30:39I like to see where we are in that world.
30:41And that world is the world that everybody gets to see.
30:45And so that's kind of been my thing.
30:46I'm like, oh, the black girls are kind of taking over the show, actually, whether it's
30:49for good or for bad, we are being more and more centered and not in the traditional roles
30:55that we tend to be in.
30:57And there is desirability going on in the show for us in parallel.
31:02In parallel, yes.
31:02Right?
31:02In parallel.
31:04And now, what I love about the show, again, big Landria fan, she is the moment.
31:09It doesn't really matter what you're doing.
31:11She is unavoidable and should be.
31:15And I think dark skinned girls now get to see someone like that and are like, oh, I want
31:20to be like her.
31:20I want to look like her.
31:21I want to.
31:21So that's the thing that keeps me hooked in, right?
31:25Because there's other shows like Farmer Has a Wife.
31:27Not for me.
31:28What's that?
31:30Exactly.
31:31Like, there's a lot of shows that aren't centering us and aren't elevating us in the narrative.
31:35So that's my two cents.
31:36There is some joy there.
31:37There is some like, there's places for us to rest and to find some happiness in the
31:41show.
31:42And then also, it's just like a sociological, anthropological experiment.
31:45And so it's a nice way to keep up with the friend that you haven't talked to in a long
31:49time.
31:49If you're like, will you watch this season?
31:51Because it's kept me threaded with people that I don't get to talk to enough.
31:54So that's what she says.
31:54We never talk about Melanie and Sincere.
31:57Oh, girl.
31:57We're going to have to offline.
31:58Yeah.
31:58We're going to have to offline.
31:59Offline.
32:00But offline.
32:01Thank you all for being here.
32:02We really appreciate you.
32:03Thank you all for coming.
32:05And being with us in the circle.
32:06Okay.
32:06As always, we close the circle with another clearing.
32:09So y'all bring your hands together, please.
32:10Oh, I love it.
32:12Rub it together.
32:13Get that love island out.
32:15So we can watch our episode tonight.
32:18All right.
32:19One, two, three.
32:22Thank y'all.
32:24This is so amazing.
32:25Thank you so much.
32:27I'm sorry.
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