- 2 hours ago
Healing is rarely just one thing — and Dr. Sarita Lyons has never pretended otherwise. In this intimate fireside chat, the author of Honor Thy Mother sits down to explore the full landscape of Black women's wellness — from the emotional inheritance of complicated mother relationships to the deeper work of reclaiming wholeness from the inside out.
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00:06Good afternoon, everybody.
00:07It's such an honor to be here.
00:09Kiara is not present with us this afternoon, so sorry you're, well, I'm not sorry you're
00:14stuck with me.
00:15I'm really grateful to be here with you.
00:17My name is Portia Burke, and I have the grand privilege of being the associate publisher
00:20at Storehouse Voices.
00:22If any of you saw Mara Brock Akil today, that happens to be our book, so thank you for your
00:26support.
00:28And as a longtime admirer of Dr. Lyons, it's a privilege to be able to sit here with you.
00:33Good afternoon, Dr. Sarita.
00:35Good afternoon.
00:36It's so good to be with you.
00:38And good afternoon, everyone.
00:40Hi, thanks for coming.
00:42May I read your bio so that people know exactly who you are?
00:46Is that embarrassing when people do that?
00:48Sorry.
00:49So, like, shut your eyes.
00:51So, Dr. Sarita Lyons is the best-selling author of Church Girl.
00:55Her upcoming book, Honor Thy Mother, releasing August 25th, addresses the impact of mother
01:01wounds and how people can move forward in healing through practical strategies and biblical
01:08wisdom.
01:09Dr. Sarita is a women's leader, Bible teacher, ministry consultant, and psychotherapist.
01:15She is on staff with Epiphany Fellowship Church as the director of discipleship and women's
01:21ministries.
01:22Before going into full-time ministry, she was in private practice for nine years, providing
01:27counseling to individuals, families, couples, and groups for a variety of psychological needs.
01:33Welcome, Dr. Sarita, and thank you for being here with us.
01:36Thank you so much.
01:38Can we get right into it?
01:40Let's go.
01:40So, this is your second book.
01:42It is.
01:43Congratulations.
01:44And it is titled, Honor Thy Mother, How to Grieve, Heal, and Make Peace with Your Mother
01:49Wounds.
01:50Could we start with why this book and why now at this moment in your career and in this
01:55moment in the world?
01:56Yes.
01:57So, my second book, as was said, Honor Thy Mother, How to Grieve, Heal, and Make Peace
02:04with Your Mother Wounds.
02:06Why for the book is because I believe just through my personal experience, through discipleship,
02:14through counseling, through mentorship at the church, while the world and the church is
02:20more comfortable, and I would say we're used to talking about father wounds and the impact
02:27of absentee fathers and things like that, one of the things we never talk about that is
02:33a reality that so many people are facing are the difficult, strained, or tense relationships
02:39that we've had with our mothers.
02:41But for so many of us, and I understand why, but our mothers have been off limits.
02:47It's like, you can talk about me, you can talk about everything else going on with me,
02:51but you better not talk about my mama, right?
02:55And so, just imagine, not only did we not want other people talking about our mothers,
03:01but it has been really difficult for people who have something to talk about to even feel
03:08like they had the permission to say something that actually is true that impacted them and
03:15their relationship with their mother.
03:16Plus, there is this belief that if I tell the truth about something that went wrong or some
03:23way that I was injured, then that automatically means I'm dishonoring her, or that automatically
03:29means I don't love her.
03:30And the reality is there are many people who deeply love and respect their parents or their
03:37mother who they had a challenging relationship with.
03:39And so, I am creating space and starting a much-needed conversation, not just so that we
03:47can complain and point the finger and blame, but for us to really get whole and get healed
03:54so that we're not paralyzed by the past, we're not paralyzed by the pain, and we can start
04:01beginning to deal with how did that primary, really important relationship impact me, maybe
04:08as a parent, maybe as a spouse or a partner, how does that show up and how I relate to
04:14other
04:15people, the kind of people I choose and allow in my life.
04:18Because the reality is sometimes when people have survived childhood or they had a mother
04:24that they're like, she did the best she could, but these are some areas I wouldn't do, I wouldn't
04:29replicate that in my adulthood.
04:31The reality is if there isn't an intervention, you end up either attracting your mother into
04:37your life or becoming just like her to many people's surprise.
04:44And so, ultimately, as a believer, as a Christian, what I absolutely want to say is that in our
04:51culture, we've been hearing a lot about estrangement, right?
04:54Cutting your mama off and all of that.
04:57And I am not suggesting that people don't need to have healthy boundaries and that sometimes
05:02you do need to protect yourself if you are in relationship with a parent or a mother who
05:08is unsafe.
05:09But I believe that, ultimately, the core of the gospel message of Jesus Christ is about
05:15reconciliation, is about restoration, and is about healing.
05:20And according to my faith, if God can bring unrighteous, unholy people back into relationship
05:27with him who is perfect, how do we think that that same power is not available to mend brokenness
05:35with human beings?
05:36And so, that's ultimately the goal and heart of the book.
05:41It's incredible.
05:42The book does go on sale.
05:44We'll have advanced copies here.
05:46You all will be the first to be able to experience this book in print, and it goes on sale
05:52later
05:52this year.
05:53Can you tell us when it does?
05:55Yeah.
05:55So, it's really cool.
05:56The book will be available, as she said.
05:59We're giving advanced copies away today after this, but it'll be available August 25th.
06:05And so, even if you get your advanced copy today, please pre-order the book so you can get
06:10the hardback book and read it for yourself and share it, particularly with someone else that
06:14you think will be blessed, at the end of every chapter, I have discussion questions for you
06:20to talk about among community, because it really is a book to be digested and worked through
06:25in a group.
06:26Sure.
06:26That's right.
06:29Can I ask, what does it look like to reclaim our wholeness, as you mentioned, from the inside
06:36out?
06:37What is that process like?
06:38I mean, I think in order to reclaim wholeness, one, it takes honesty about what's broken,
06:47right?
06:47You cannot fix what you don't admit is broken or injured.
06:53And so, the journey of healing or the journey of wholeness is coming face-to-face in the proverbial
07:00mirror and doing an assessment, right?
07:03And hopefully, that assessment is done with God, with yourself, with others, because the
07:09reality is, people can sometimes see us better than we can see ourselves.
07:14I believe all relationships are like a mirror, right?
07:18When you are in relationship with someone, you're in many ways looking at a version of
07:24yourself being reflected back to you.
07:26The trick is making sure you are seeing yourself through a healthy mirror.
07:31Remember, anybody ever used to go, like, to the state fair where they had the house of
07:35mirrors, and it was all these different type of mirrors?
07:38The problem with us, when we don't really see ourselves clearly, is because we're standing
07:43in the house of mirrors.
07:44Some mirrors make you look tall and skinny.
07:47Love that one, right?
07:49Some of them make you look short and fat.
07:51Some of them make you look real wide.
07:53But that's because even though there is a reflection, there's something wrong with the mirror that's
07:58giving you a false image of yourself.
08:00But when you stand in front of truth, and I believe ultimately the word of God is truth,
08:06when you stand in front of other healthy people who can reflect the truth back to you, then
08:12you get a clearer, more accurate image of who you are.
08:16And you can begin to do the work of reclaiming wholeness and making a commitment.
08:22I would say step two is making a commitment to work on yourself, like to get out of our
08:28heads.
08:28We have a lot of ideas.
08:30We have a lot of dreams.
08:31We have a lot of self-talk that we actually don't begin to work on.
08:35So we have to begin to put ideas to paper.
08:39I often call that gospel dreaming, being able to create space for yourself to dream again.
08:46Like when we adult and when life is hard, we cease from dreaming about the future because
08:52we're always in survival mode.
08:54And so part of reclaiming wholeness is dreaming again for yourself.
08:59And then as you are assessing what are my values and goals, being willing or what we call an
09:08acceptance and commitment therapy, increasing your willingness to have distress while you
09:15are also working on your life.
09:17So it is a false belief that I have to fix everything or feel good in order to work on
09:24my life.
09:25But sometimes depression or feeling low has to accompany you on the journey of healing.
09:32Sometimes having anxious moments or everything not being perfect in your relationships.
09:37You can't change all of that all the time.
09:39So you're not supposed to stay static, waiting to feel better before you do better.
09:46Many times you just have to change your mind and then you do the things that are in communion
09:54or equivalent or a good reflection of your new thoughts and beliefs.
09:59And eventually your feelings will put on track shoes and catch up.
10:03And so what I hope people understand is you don't have to always feel good to do good.
10:09You have to think good to do good.
10:12Can I ask you to say that one more time so that I can digest it again?
10:16You don't have to feel good to do good.
10:19You just have to think good to do good.
10:22That's right.
10:23I will write that 50 times in a journal.
10:27This is brilliant and healing even for me.
10:30Sometimes when you're called to participate and fill in, you don't realize what a blessing
10:35it's going to be on your own life.
10:38You're welcome.
10:39Can I ask you, you created the term maternal corrective experience.
10:44Can you tell us what that is and what does it look like practically?
10:49So in my book, Honor Thy Mother, I have a chapter called The Power of Spiritual Mothering.
10:56And so even though the book is talking about mother wounds, spiritual mothering, I am asserting,
11:03becomes a context where some of our maternal wounds get healed and get addressed.
11:09So spiritual mothering, if you're in the church, that might be called discipleship, right?
11:14When I was growing up, we used the word mentorship.
11:17It's just having another woman who is willing to come alongside you and represent a maternal
11:24figure for you.
11:25Because here's the gag.
11:27Even though God ordained you to come through one woman, he never intended one woman, your
11:34biological mother, to meet every single need you have.
11:39There's no way she can do it.
11:41She doesn't have enough intellect, enough power, enough grace, enough money.
11:45None of us do.
11:47But God gives us community.
11:49And so through mentorship, through discipleship, through spiritual mothering, people who have
11:55been wounded in their relationships with their mother get to have a maternal corrective experience.
12:02And most of the time, it should be more than one.
12:05And so I often say, if you think the only child you were ever supposed to love and care for
12:14is the child that came from your womb, then you have too small of a view of motherhood.
12:22But motherhood in God's mind is so big, so grand, that he has allowed people that may not have
12:30ever had children, meaning if you are single, if you are childless, naturally, God has called
12:37so many of us to mother and care for children in the spirit.
12:41And so you can, a lot of our childhood wounds, get healed through these maternal experiences.
12:47There are women out here that know how to sew, that know how to cook, and there is a child
12:52or a young woman waiting for you to come alongside.
12:55There are young women out here, older women out here, trying to figure out relationships
13:00and love, and they need somebody that's been there, done that, got the t-shirt that can
13:05say, baby, you don't want to be with him.
13:07You don't want to do that, right?
13:08But your one biological mother doesn't have the ability to give that.
13:14And if you had a mother who was deeply unhealthy or struggled with mental illness or abandoned
13:20you or abused you, do you think God just left you?
13:24Absolutely not.
13:25The scripture says, when your father and mother forsake you, I will carry you.
13:30I will hold you.
13:31And so even though God is a spirit, one of the ways God cares for us and holds us is
13:38often in the arms of other women.
13:42Right?
13:43Amen.
13:45Amen.
13:47Amen.
13:48What would you say to the women here who have difficult relationships with their mothers and
13:57fear the unintentional habits and behaviors they may have picked up but don't want to display?
14:04What is their path toward reconciling and building a healthy mirror?
14:10Yeah.
14:11So, I mean, it kind of goes back to my first answer about the journey of wholeness.
14:16It really is taking an assessment, right?
14:19You cannot change what you don't acknowledge.
14:23And one thing I want to say as a caveat, though, is it is unfair to look at everything about
14:30your life, all the bad choices you've made, all of the missteps, and then say, that's my
14:36mama.
14:36My mama caused that.
14:37My mama did that.
14:38No.
14:38Some of that stuff was you.
14:40Right?
14:41Because there are a lot of people who have been raised by really strong, healthy, godly,
14:47committed mothers, and your children still go out and do whatever they want to do because
14:51they have their own life to live.
14:53They have their own choices.
14:55So it would be wrong to look at your life and all of the failures or heartaches and
14:59heartbreaks and just automatically blame that on your mother.
15:03That's not fair to do that to her.
15:05But there are things that we do have to look at and say, I either learned this pathology
15:11or this unhealthy way of relating or doing life because she explicitly taught it to me
15:17or just living in the home, so much of what I learned was caught.
15:22So some lessons are taught and some lessons are caught.
15:27And I think what we have to do is, one, have compassion on our mothers because sometimes
15:32they didn't even know they were teaching that lesson.
15:35In fact, if they were teaching it, they learned it from someplace.
15:38But the question is, at what point are you going to be a cycle breaker?
15:44At what point are you going to decide that the generational pathology stops with me?
15:51That the generations that follow me are going to have a healthy inheritance because I am going
15:58to decide to stand up and be a better version of a woman or a man that my mother or
16:05my parents
16:05were never able to give me?
16:07And then you have to begin to do the work on being sometimes what you didn't even receive.
16:13And that's where even spiritual mothering comes from.
16:16That's where community comes from.
16:18For me, that's also where God's word comes from.
16:22What does it look like to live healthy and whole?
16:25Who is going to be the arbitrator or the standard bearer of what truth is?
16:30For me, it's God's truth.
16:32And so no matter what my parents did, I look into the perfect law of liberty and I see what
16:38God wants for my life.
16:40I see what he died to provide for me.
16:43And I say, I want that.
16:45And I know I have all the resources from heaven and the resources he provided on earth for
16:51me to be exactly what he called me to be.
16:53And so that is how you turn the ship.
16:56You decide, I want to be a cycle breaker.
16:58And then God also may call you to be a peacemaker because we got to get out of this mindset
17:04that
17:05the only way to be new is to cut everybody out of our life.
17:10I mean, we live in a generation that does not labor and work through anything.
17:15It's like we quit jobs.
17:16We quit people.
17:17We just quit, quit, quit, quit, quit.
17:19We don't endure and that's different from enduring abuse.
17:23I'm not saying that, but sometimes there are some relational things that just need to
17:28be worked on.
17:29Some things you just have the courage to sit down and say, mom, can we talk?
17:33Can we go to counseling?
17:35And if she doesn't, fine.
17:37As much as it depends on you, live at peace.
17:39But the question is, have you even tried?
17:42Have you even tried to build a bridge instead of build a wall and call it a boundary?
17:48Talking about, I'm protecting my peace.
17:50No, you're not just protecting your peace.
17:51That's what the world says.
17:53I'm just protecting my peace.
17:54We cut everybody off.
17:56Talking about, I'm just protecting my peace.
17:58And we think we can go to the spa and float on something in Jamaica and that's what makes
18:03us feel good.
18:04No, sometimes you got to stay right where you are, in your home, in your hood, in your
18:09community and face the reality of the trauma and the pain head on and do the work of healing.
18:15And healing not just you, but sometimes healing relationships.
18:19Everything don't get fixed at the spa.
18:21I like the spa, but everything don't get fixed at the spa.
18:24And floating on something in Jamaica?
18:26No, I mean, yes.
18:27You can stamp your passport all you want and still come back broken, right?
18:32Amen, Dr. Sarita.
18:35What are some of the joys of motherhood that you wish you heard more people talk about?
18:41Yeah, well, I am a mother of four.
18:45I love my job as a mother.
18:48It's hard.
18:49I have adult children now, so when your children go up, it's different.
18:54My biggest thing when they were younger is I used to say, I can't wait till they can get
18:58into the car by themselves.
18:59Like, that would be like this huge thing.
19:01But, I mean, I think the joy of being a mother, honestly, is stewarding a life that actually
19:09gets to grow up and be an image bearer of God and the earth.
19:13I mean, that's really what it means to be a Christian.
19:15It's like a little Christ.
19:17So, I feel like the ultimate joy is knowing that my kids don't belong to me as much as
19:24they belong to God.
19:25And I think accepting that takes some of the pressure off.
19:30Parents struggle with trying to be perfect.
19:32You know, we don't want to mess up our kids.
19:35Listen, the reality is nobody escapes childhood without a wound.
19:39The question is how bad and what's the recovery plan?
19:42Okay, you're not going to have broken parents and then somehow not get broken.
19:46It's just life.
19:47But the joy is I don't have to do it in my own strength.
19:51I don't have to do it in my own strength.
19:53Paul says in the first chapter of Colossians, I labor and strive for this.
19:57Not in my strength, but in his strength, God's strength that powerfully works in me.
20:03So, I get to display the love of God in my home.
20:07I get to humble myself as a parent and apologize to my children.
20:12When I make a mistake to repent to my children, like that's a novel idea, right?
20:17Grown people that we can repent to children when we've done wrong.
20:22And that I get to be an example for my children that really love is the only way, right?
20:30And that at the end of the day, the love of God is what binds us, holds us together.
20:36And with him, you can do anything.
20:38Like literally, you can do anything that God has called you to do.
20:43And just to be kind of a shepherd and a nurturer of that, to fan the flames, to ask God
20:48for the wisdom, to see the gifts and talents.
20:51You know, I often, when my kids were young, and even now, I used to pray over my children and
20:56say, God, who is he?
20:58Who is she?
21:00Why did you send them to the planet?
21:02I don't have enough strength and wisdom and smarts to figure this thing out.
21:07I need your wisdom to help raise this child.
21:11And I think that's a blessing, to partner with God in the raising of a life, hopefully, that would bring
21:16him glory.
21:18You are an incredible, incredible blessing to your family, to your community, to me personally.
21:26Thank you so much.
21:29And once again, this book is Honor Thy Mother.
21:34Tell me once more when it comes out in August.
21:36Yep.
21:37Honor Thy Mother comes out August 25th.
21:40It's available for pre-order now.
21:42And I did want to say we also have Church Girl, my first book for sale as well.
21:48That was my first book from 2024, right?
21:50That's great.
21:51The subtitle is A Gospel Vision to Encourage and Challenge Black Christian Women.
21:56But get both.
21:57And I hope that Honor Thy Mother begins to have a healing conversation in your lives, in your family lives.
22:04I'm having a conference in October in Philadelphia about this very topic.
22:10Honor Thy Mother Conference is happening in Philly, October 2nd and 3rd.
22:14I'd love for you all to come.
22:15And I love on y'all.
22:16My team, we're praying for a great time.
22:19Thank you, Dr. Sarita.
22:20She'll be moving to our signing table.
22:22So I'm sure that many of you have questions and thank yous as I would.
22:27So you're welcome.
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