- 3 hours ago
A founder-led conversation on the rituals, wisdom, and community truths that shape what Black women build and carry forward.
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00:04How y'all doing?
00:09Oh, man.
00:11Okay, I'm just going to keep this show rolling
00:13because we have some really great guests coming up next.
00:17So, you guys, I want to start with the question,
00:21what shapes a life that feels meaningfully your own?
00:26I feel like I'm going through that right now.
00:29You know what I mean?
00:30It's the choices, the values, your relationships.
00:34This next conversation gets into all of that.
00:39This segment is brought to you by Target,
00:42and I want you to welcome your moderator, Kayla Greene.
00:54Hey, everybody, how are we feeling today?
00:57It's Essence Fest date.
00:58You guys are more excited than that.
00:59Come on.
01:00Essence Fest date, too.
01:02That's the energy I want to hear.
01:03All right, we're going to have an amazing conversation today,
01:06and this conversation is really going to feed your soul.
01:09We are talking to two incredible women today.
01:14The first is Ms. Pamela Brown.
01:16She is the head of Target, talent, and experiential marketing.
01:23And we also have Ms. Desiree Rogers, who's the CEO and co-founder of Black Opal.
01:35How are you guys doing today?
01:37We are all matching when it comes to leg, and when it comes to the color, and when it comes
01:41to the white.
01:43We are all looking fantastic today.
01:46Okay, so we know as Black women, we are often celebrated for our accomplishments professionally,
01:52but not always for our humanity, right?
01:55And to be human means to be in a constant state of growth.
02:00We are constantly changing and imagining the new things that we want for ourselves.
02:05And you two are an excellent example of all of that.
02:10So before either of you even became who you are today, the big bosses that we see in corporate,
02:15who were you as a young girl?
02:18What were your desires?
02:21I was a dreamer and an avid reader.
02:26You know, I grew up in Minneapolis where I didn't see a lot of us,
02:32and so I would get lost in books, and I just dreamed a whole lot.
02:40And here I am.
02:42What was a book that really made you dream that you can think of from your childhood?
02:45Oh, gosh, I read everything.
02:47I read so much.
02:48But it wasn't so much as a particular book.
02:51It was the spaces and places within a book.
02:54Never been to New York, but read about it.
02:57You know, I was a September issue girly with Vogue.
03:03Love fashion, and I would just get lost in that.
03:06And I think that that opened up my world until I could get to the point where I could travel.
03:13How about for you, Desiree?
03:14Well, I'm a local, so I'm from New Orleans.
03:17So I spent my childhood really thinking about New Orleans,
03:23but also thinking about the fact that at some point I would probably leave this wonderful town.
03:28Very curious kid, and really spent a lot of time with my mother and grandmother,
03:33who were entrepreneurs here in New Orleans.
03:36So spent a lot of time just hanging around their business as a young child.
03:40They had daycare centers, so lots of toys, some books, Sesame Street, lots of shows.
03:46So that's kind of what I did growing up.
03:48Yeah, I love that.
03:49So, Pamela, you brought up the fact that books made you dream.
03:52But who are the people in your life that showed you that you could take up space to?
03:57Oh, that's such a good question.
04:00Honestly, my sixth-grade teacher, who also is my namesake, her name was Pamela as well.
04:07And I wasn't in sixth grade.
04:10I was in fifth grade.
04:12But, you know, I was put in her program, like her accelerated program.
04:19And she helped me, like, not feel bad about that,
04:22to, like, really take up space to own my superpowers and things of that nature.
04:27But she was the one who really saw me and, you know,
04:31and encouraged me to continue to dream, to continue to take up space.
04:35Whoever didn't like it, that sort of thing.
04:39So, Pamela Roman.
04:41I wonder what she's up to now.
04:43I should send her a card.
04:46And for Desiree, sorry, would you say it was about the same for you,
04:49like your families who taught you to take up space?
04:52You know, my family put up with me.
04:54I was a different kind of kid.
04:56And so I had very big dreams very early on about what I was going to become,
05:02what I was going to do.
05:03And I would just throw out these things.
05:05I'd be like, I'm going to go to school in Boston.
05:08I'm going to do this.
05:09I'm going to do that.
05:10I early on said, you know, people would say, what do you want to be?
05:14And people would say, you know, a teacher, a nurse, a doctor, all these things.
05:18And I would say, I want to be in charge of something.
05:21And so very early on, I had this feeling that I wanted to run something.
05:26I wanted to work with teams.
05:27I wanted to work with people.
05:29And so they were very supportive of that because if you know a New Orleanian, we stay.
05:35We don't leave New Orleans.
05:36It's such a fabulous place.
05:38I know you guys are all experiencing all of our fabulousness.
05:41But you rarely find a New Orleanian who's left.
05:44And so very early on, I knew that I would be leaving.
05:48And I want to touch on that, too, because neither of you have a straight line when it
05:52comes to your career.
05:53So what was something that you said yes to that maybe was a little shocking to everybody
05:58else around, but it completely changed the trajectory of your life for the better?
06:02Oh, my gosh, y'all.
06:03If I wasn't doing what I'm doing now, I'd be in nursing, which is a very noble job.
06:09And I love the nurses out there that take care of us.
06:13But it wasn't my calling.
06:17I did it because that's the job that people tell you to have, you know, to do these certain
06:23things.
06:24And I knew I was creative.
06:27And I came home one day and told my parents I was switching my major because I had taken
06:36a media criticism class.
06:37And they were like, well, why do you need to critique media?
06:39How are you going to make money critiquing media?
06:42I was like, just trust me on this.
06:44That's so black parents to react that way.
06:47I don't understand why media has to be critiqued or why do you need to advertise?
06:52And so, but here I am.
06:54And they're happy.
06:54But that was something I said no to.
06:57And I was a biology major two years in.
07:00So it's a big deal.
07:01And what advice would you give to somebody who may be a young person and they're like,
07:06you know, I'm down this path because I feel like it's the right thing.
07:08But my passion is somewhere else.
07:10Don't do it.
07:13But there's, first of all, there's no such thing as work-life balance.
07:18There's this thing called energy giving or energy draining.
07:21And if you don't do that, which is energy giving, you are going to be so miserable.
07:29So follow your passions.
07:32Figure it out.
07:33I mean, you want to be able to do what you're doing and feel like you don't have to get
07:39paid
07:39for it and love it that much.
07:41Because you spend so much time at work.
07:45So if you want to draw, draw.
07:47Paint, paint.
07:48But don't do the thing that drains you.
07:52What was your yes, Desiree?
07:53Well, that's an easy one for me.
07:55I left my corporate work and joined the Obama White House as the first social secretary.
08:00Oh, period.
08:01So I quit.
08:02We need a bigger round of applause for that.
08:05That's a big flex.
08:06That was a major pivot.
08:09Major pivot for me.
08:10And it was life-changing, as you can imagine, to serve the best president and first lady
08:17in the world.
08:18Absolutely.
08:19In the world.
08:20And to be there early.
08:21To be there as part of the initial group.
08:23helping them set up what would become, you know, their legacy and their future was just an unbelievable seat to
08:33have in history.
08:34So I don't regret it for one second, but was certainly very, very different than what I had been doing
08:41in the past.
08:41And I think one of the lessons is you have to take chances, you have to take chances, you have
08:47to listen to your soul, your mind.
08:49There's so many people that are naysayers that want to give so much advice, but I find I've got one
08:55life to live and I'm going to live it.
08:56And so that is kind of what I did, but it definitely changed my life.
09:01I met so many people that I would not have necessarily met.
09:04And I also got to experience history firsthand at the hands of, as I've said, the best president and first
09:11lady of the United States.
09:12That's amazing.
09:13And I just got to give you your flowers.
09:15That was history for us watching you and how you stepped into that role.
09:20It was so gracious, so poised.
09:22So thank you for doing that.
09:24It's so stylish, so style forward.
09:27So thank you.
09:29I love that you brought up the fact that you have one life to live.
09:32And sometimes there's going to be critics saying things and you can't listen to that, right?
09:38So when you switch your major and you decide, you know what, I'm going to do something else.
09:41Who was the first person outside of yourself that really believed in you?
09:46My grandmother.
09:49And my grandmother was born in 1919.
09:52Wow.
09:52And while she has passed and is no longer living, but I lay my head down every night thinking I'm
10:03her girl.
10:04I did it.
10:05She would tell me very early on, and I didn't get it until this big age of mine at 49
10:11looking at 50, that everybody can't go.
10:15And I didn't understand that, but now I see, okay, what she was preparing me for was that I would
10:22have to come out of Minneapolis.
10:24I would have to go off and do bigger things, and there might be some people that would try to
10:29hold me to that place, but my superpowers were greater than that.
10:33So she was the first.
10:36So Pamela, we had a really beautiful conversation yesterday at the Target welcome reception, and you talked about pouring into
10:42people, and I can't help but think about the correlation to your grandmother now that you just mentioned that.
10:47So how did her relationship with you change or, you know, nourish your approach to how you deal with relationships
10:55now with people?
10:57Yeah, well, I mean, just that saying, everybody can't go, it starts to help put a frame or a lens
11:07on who I allow to have access to me.
11:14You know, we're the average of our friends, and I can love you because I'm required to do that,
11:20but that doesn't always mean that we have to be in relationship with each other because we all got to
11:31go places,
11:32and we need a community, an uprising of community around us that can help fuel that, and that's what I
11:38want to be to others, too.
11:39So that framing helped me with that.
11:42And I think growth, too, it speaks to people but also to yourself, right?
11:46Not everything can come with you.
11:47Not every position can be forever.
11:49So, Desiree, you're not somebody who just stays in one place.
11:54How do you know when it's time to just move on?
11:57Because I think a lot of the times, as black women, we're scared to receive.
12:02We're scared or, like, we think that we don't deserve something.
12:06We don't deserve more.
12:06We don't deserve better.
12:07But you are a great example of we got to keep it moving.
12:10We need to keep getting more.
12:13How do you know when it's time to just move forward?
12:16I think inherently you know in your soul.
12:18You know when you're not happy.
12:20You know when it just doesn't feel quite right for you.
12:24That's the key, though.
12:25It's about you and not anyone else telling you how you should feel.
12:30And so many times we listen to so many different people that are important to us, but they're not you.
12:36And so you take that long shower or that long bath or that long just rest in your bed and
12:43you talk to yourself and you know when it's time to make that move.
12:48And sometimes it's hard because someone you really care about is wanting you to stay for some reason.
12:54I think one of the things that's key is to always remember the advice that you're getting is from the
13:00perspective and how that person has lived.
13:04What has transpired in their lives colors their advice.
13:08Can we repeat that again?
13:09Because I think that's really important to highlight.
13:11So what I'm saying is as you take advice, you have to make certain that you're realizing that their advice,
13:20including mine, is colored by my experience.
13:23So sometimes you have to discount that a little bit to make certain that you really are getting the true
13:29message.
13:30I just ask them.
13:31I'm like, I know you've been divorced three times.
13:33So is that why you're telling me that I shouldn't get any of that?
13:37I mean.
13:37Okay, can we just break it down?
13:39I mean.
13:40Well, you know, Pamela and I have taken off our pearls.
13:43Yes, we don't clutch our pearls.
13:45We don't clutch our pearls anymore.
13:47So I think that you just have to be honest with yourself.
13:51And sometimes that's hard.
13:53Sometimes it's really scary.
13:55As my mother says, you know, if it's not scary, if there's not something that you have to address, if
14:00there's not a dragon somewhere down the road, then, honey, you're probably not living.
14:05You're dead.
14:06So there's always going to be something that is uncomfortable that you have to confront.
14:11But I'm still going to go back to that one thing.
14:13You got one life.
14:15Let's do it.
14:16Let's do it.
14:17May I build on that?
14:19Because I love that so much.
14:20That is so good.
14:23But you also have to ask yourself, who benefits from this if I do this or if I don't do
14:33that?
14:33If I go to this school, who benefits or does not benefit?
14:37That helps you to, like, get real clear on what you need versus what someone else needs.
14:44I know a lot of parents who may not want their kids to go to school out of state.
14:51Well, how does that benefit the student?
14:54It benefits the parents but not the student.
14:56So that's, or even getting married.
14:59Who benefits if I stay single?
15:03That's right.
15:03All the people that get my time.
15:06Yeah.
15:07That's right.
15:07And it's so draining if you choose the other options, like what you just said.
15:11But I think sometimes that we get into our own way or we get into our own heads and we're
15:15like, ooh, should I really do this?
15:17And oh my God, what if I don't make enough money?
15:19And oh my, like, we're always going to the worst case scenario.
15:22How do you get over that fear?
15:25How do you get onto the other side of that fear?
15:27Because I know that we've all lived on the side of fear.
15:30But once you get over it, it's like miraculous, right?
15:33But the getting over is difficult.
15:36I'd love to know from each of you one piece of advice that you could give to the audience
15:39today on that.
15:40Do it afraid.
15:42I would say, you know, you have to manage it.
15:46There's always going to be challenges.
15:48There's never going to, that's what my mother who's 89 is trying to say to me.
15:52It's never going to be a situation where it's just completely smooth.
15:56Everything is so easy.
15:58Everything is falling into place exactly how you would like.
16:02There's always going to be something.
16:04So if you anticipate and expect that there's always going to be something and put it in
16:10its proper perspective, I think it goes a long way.
16:14When I used to think like everything, where was my smooth path coming?
16:18Where was it?
16:19What was I missing?
16:20I felt much less happy than I feel right now knowing there'll be something.
16:25What is it?
16:25Let me address it and move on.
16:27And just knowing that's just life.
16:30Yeah, it's just life.
16:31I mean, and think of the worst possible scenario.
16:36Face it and know that you can survive it.
16:39I mean, we've all survived all of our worst days.
16:45So think about what the absolute worst thing could be and just face it and do it anyway.
16:51And I say that to y'all as I say it to myself.
16:54I have to continue to remind myself of that.
16:57But yeah, do it afraid.
16:58And I think that's an important reminder too, because I think sometimes it's so easy to say,
17:02well, you know, we're just going to do it this way.
17:04But it's a constant practice.
17:06It is.
17:07It is a constant practice.
17:08But I think it's such an amazing point that you made of reminding yourself of all the times when you
17:12thought it was your worst.
17:14But you're still okay.
17:15We're still, we're all here.
17:16We're all showing our legs.
17:17We're all fine.
17:19We're all going to make it.
17:20It's all good.
17:21We're all going to make it.
17:22It's all good.
17:23It's all good.
17:23It's all good.
17:24Last year was a very interesting time for us.
17:29We're here.
17:31And that line is long.
17:32That line is real long.
17:33The target line is long.
17:34So I'm grateful.
17:35Yeah.
17:36Amen.
17:37Yeah.
17:37So we've talked a lot about saying yes and listening to ourselves.
17:41But there are times you also need to say no.
17:43Ciao.
17:44And sometimes that no leads to the yes.
17:47So tell me about that journey for the both of you.
17:50I don't have a problem saying no.
17:52I love it.
17:54I don't have a problem saying no.
17:57Because, you know, remember, I mean, I know I sound like one trick pony.
18:00One life, remember?
18:02One life.
18:03You can say yes to something and get yourself caught up and lose a couple of years going down a
18:09path that makes you, you know, unhappy.
18:11I feel like the world is so challenging right now.
18:14There are so many things that we all have to confront, whether it's, you know, raising our children, parents, you
18:20know, raising ourselves, being happy, being healthy, you know, having the career that we dreamed of.
18:26All of those things, they take a lot of energy.
18:29They take a lot of time.
18:31They take a lot of self-analysis.
18:33They take a lot of, like, kind of pushing to the side, those things that pull you back.
18:37And so, you know what?
18:39No can be at the tip of your tongue.
18:41There are ways to say no.
18:42I just get right to it.
18:44No.
18:44Okay.
18:45No, that's my new thing.
18:47No.
18:47But you are so, she does, she has a very strong no.
18:51And I did too, but it took me a while to get to my no.
18:54So I had to start with no thank you until I got stronger with my no.
19:02But you get there, and it is so liberating because you recognize it is a complete sentence.
19:09You don't owe anybody anything.
19:12And those no's will get you to your yeses.
19:16They really, really will.
19:18Yeah.
19:19No doesn't have to be, if not positive.
19:21Right.
19:21Oh, my God.
19:22Right.
19:23Sometimes I say to the person, do you want to do that?
19:25And they're like, no.
19:26I'm like, girl, let's go have a margarita.
19:28We're both sipping it.
19:29No is a good thing.
19:29No can be a very good thing.
19:31Yes.
19:32I said no to a very energy draining career before this one.
19:39I'm so glad I said no.
19:42But I had a weak no.
19:43I had like a, you know, I don't know, but now it's like, it's incredibly strong.
19:48Feels good.
19:50Well, guys, I have one more question for you before we finish.
19:53I know it went by.
19:54This is so fun, Kayla.
19:56Time flies when you're having fun.
19:58Yeah.
19:58So we started this conversation talking about you guys as little girls who were dreamers.
20:04Yeah.
20:05And now you are living that dream.
20:07So if you could go back and tell that little girl one thing with everything that you know now, what
20:13would it be?
20:17I guess for me, I would say, you know, take your time.
20:22You know, sometimes you don't take time to experience what's around you.
20:27You're so busy looking for what's the next thing.
20:30Well, after this, then where am I going?
20:32Well, planning everything.
20:34You know, I would say just take a moment.
20:37You guys are all here in this amazing arena.
20:40Look around.
20:41Take your time.
20:42Don't rush to the next thing.
20:43If you're enjoying one thing, enjoy that thing.
20:47You know, sink yourself into the moment is what I would say.
20:51And lots of times I was just rushing to the next thing, thinking, oh, but the next thing is going
20:55to be so much better.
20:57Well, maybe not.
20:58Maybe not.
20:59Enjoy the things that are right in front of you, the people that are right around you, and really experience
21:04the life that you're living right here and now.
21:07That's what I would say.
21:10That is so good.
21:12I think for the little girl in me, I would tell her it's all going to work out.
21:21Everything is figureoutable, and it all works out.
21:26Because we can spend so much time in analysis paralysis, like worried about this thing or that thing.
21:34And I would just tell her it's going to be fine.
21:39Yeah.
21:40We're going to be okay, guys.
21:42We're all going to be okay.
21:42It's all going to be good.
21:44Thank you guys so much for joining us.
21:46This was such a lovely conversation.
21:48I've got to give one plug for Black Opal.
21:51Yes, Black Opal.
21:51Yes, Black Opal.
21:52Black Opal at the Target, over at Target.
21:55You shop us at Target, Black Opal.
21:58We're right over there in the booth.
22:00And again, I'm so delighted as a Black woman and owner of Black Opal to be here with Target.
22:07Thank you guys so much.
22:10I'm happy to have you.
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