- 2 hours ago
A conversation exploring what a full, expansive life looks, feels, and smells like for Black women and marginalized communities today. Rather than focusing solely on policy or activism, the discussion centers on joy, self-definition, rest, beauty, and the right to imagine bigger futures.
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00:01Hello, everyone. I said hello, divas. Happy Saturday. We are here at Essence Fest. It's hot. Hi, auntie. It is
00:14hot outside, ain't it? It is hot, y'all, but it is cool in here. And I'm so happy to
00:19be kicking off the BeautyCon stage where today you all will take in and hear from some people that we
00:26absolutely know and adore.
00:27And I am so honored that I actually get to kick off the first panel today, which is presented by
00:34my favorite fragrance brand ever, Brown Sugar Babe.
00:40Right now, I want to let you all know I smell like Mary Me. The shimmer oil is on. I
00:46know you see it. I know you see it.
00:48Now, I am so excited because coming up, we are having a panel called The Scent of Becoming, What Living
00:56Fully Feels Like.
00:57I am so excited today to be joined by two women that I absolutely adore, two women who have become
01:04voices for black women near and far,
01:07two people that I love following on every single social media platform.
01:11So, without further ado, I am honored to be joined in conversation by the Brittany Packnick Cunningham and Dominique Morgan.
01:35Hi. You know I'm mad that we only have 20 minutes because I feel like between y'all two, I
01:41could talk to you all for hours and hours.
01:43But thank you, ladies, for joining us.
01:45So, I want to kick it off with defining the life that you want, especially right now when I think
01:52all of us are just kind of hanging on by a thread and just going day to day.
01:56So, what does living life on your own terms look like in times like these?
02:04Imagine.
02:07I think it looks like this.
02:09I think it looks like intentionally choosing what we want.
02:13I think it looks like intentionally saying no and recognizing that that is a full sentence forever and always.
02:20I think it looks like recognizing that there is room for all of us to thrive and that we need
02:25each other to do so.
02:26And I saw this like a true millennial on Twitter, but I've held on to it for a long time.
02:31True self-care is curating a life from which you do not have to constantly escape.
02:37So, it is about a safe nervous system, a safe community, safe people, and making sure that as I am
02:45pouring out so much, as black women always do, that it is being returned to me in the way I
02:50deserve.
02:50Yeah.
02:51Dominique?
02:51I think it is really divesting from what people told me the terms were supposed to be.
02:57And as many times as I am able to divest, also sharing that I can divest for other people.
03:04Because I keep seeing folks say, well, I heard you say this, so I have realized that I can say
03:10this or move this way.
03:11And that mobilization in defining what life looks like for you.
03:17The 40s is cute, but you can do that at 15 if you want to.
03:22And that's really important right now.
03:25For you all, though, keeping with black women, what are black women being called to release in this season?
03:33You know, I think there are things that black women are being called to release that is based in the
03:40way that the world abuses and only extracts from black women.
03:44At the same time, many of those things are also the systems that impart harm on black women specifically.
03:52Like the conversation of, you know, the 92% and the divestment.
03:56And it's like, yes, and what are we going to do about reproductive health?
03:59What are we going to do about safety for black women and what does that look like?
04:03I think also this idea of love, right?
04:08Whether you're watching Love Island and you're becoming disenchanted or you're on Hinge making things happen, I'm not going to
04:15push people into love.
04:16But I don't want especially black women to be pushed into that divestment through media, through some of the conversations.
04:24Because love is owed to us.
04:27It's a part of what we're owed, like being born.
04:29And black women are the epicenter and the curators and the blueprint of love.
04:34So if you want it, you should get it.
04:36I'm going to be honest.
04:37Love Island got me divesting from love.
04:39This season got me divesting from love.
04:42No, I think that's such an important question.
04:45I was telling someone yesterday, they were asking me how my book is doing.
04:48And that's my least favorite question in the world because I've been in a book deal since 2018.
04:53We're almost at 10 years.
04:55And I've been writing and rewriting and rewriting and letting perfect be the enemy of good and letting the fear
05:01of what other people will receive from it versus what I wanted to give hold me back.
05:07And I also realized that I say yes to so much other stuff that I'm like, oh, I don't have
05:12any time to write because that becomes my excuse, right?
05:15And so somebody asked me yesterday how it was going.
05:18And I said, you know what?
05:18I need to stop doing good work and I need to do the right work.
05:21And a lot of times we will pick things that are good, that are generous, that are community oriented, that
05:28look good on paper but that are not aligned with my purpose.
05:31And so if I'm doing something good but I'm not doing what's right for me, then I'm wasting my time.
05:36So I need to start giving myself my first fruits and then give the overflow to other people instead of
05:42the reverse, which is what black women are socialized to do.
05:45I think the other thing is we have to release shame, right?
05:49I am a double PK, which means I grew up with a whole lot of what I call Baptist body
05:54shame.
05:55The lipstick is too loud.
05:57The dress is too short.
05:58It's too tight, even though you can't hide the curves, right?
06:02Like they're there.
06:02And so now I'm over here with my chest up and my legs out because I'm 41 and I never
06:08felt like more fine shit in my entire life.
06:11You understand what I'm saying?
06:11So like let's fully live into this and release those systems that told us to be ashamed of the bodies
06:18that we were born in that were made so beautifully.
06:20And I'm so happy that you all talked about that specifically because I think, like I said, with the state
06:25of our country, when this current administration first came in, you saw a lot of discourse of black women saying,
06:32this isn't my problem anymore.
06:33I'm stepping away.
06:34But to your point, it's not even in our nature to not.
06:38We have been at the forefront of every movement.
06:40We have been all of those things.
06:42So what are ways, though, that we can continue to resist?
06:48We can continue to be a part of this movement against this regime without, to your point, sacrificing the best
06:55parts, the best and most valuable parts of ourselves.
06:58I think we invest in community, right?
07:01When we think about the original Jim Crow era, which is what they're trying to return us to right now.
07:06Let's be very clear.
07:07When black representation is gone, when black voting rights are gone, when black economies are decimated, these are the things
07:13that they're trying to attempt to drive us back to.
07:15So let's go back to the blueprint.
07:17What did our elders and our ancestors do in that era?
07:20They created our own shadow community.
07:24We had our own economies.
07:26We had our own institutions.
07:27We built our own houses of worship.
07:29We self-funded our own literacy centers.
07:32We self-funded our own sororities and fraternities.
07:34And all of these places require continued investment from us, those institutions that got us over and through.
07:40And it means investing in one another, right?
07:42We know that they're not telling the truth on their media.
07:44So you should be subscribed to black media, to the black podcast, to the black shows.
07:48I was with Joy Reid yesterday.
07:49We should be subscribed to her show.
07:51We should subscribe to YouTube.
07:53Yeah.
07:53I was talking to her about my podcast, Undistracted, which I hope you all subscribe to.
07:59We should be investing in one another, supporting one another, and making sure that when all of this other stuff
08:06crumbles, because it is crumbling, that what we have built will last.
08:12I always think of two things.
08:14First of all, as a black trans woman who transitioned, I was 38.
08:19I'm 44 now.
08:20If you follow me on social media, something I discuss often are the realizations of the things that were never
08:26expected of me as someone who was socialized as a boy.
08:29Like, I wasn't expected to forgive quickly.
08:31I wasn't, like, all the things that I see, that I experience in this body now, these expectations, right?
08:38I remember the first time someone looked at me and said, smile, you look upset, right?
08:43Those sort of things.
08:44And so I first think about how the world has been oppressing my sisters since their birth.
08:51And then my thought process comes from my activist work.
08:56Maryam Caba introduced the grace quotient to me in 2020.
08:59The pandemic had started.
09:00We had about 25,000 people.
09:02We were serving at Black and Pink.
09:04And I was like, I don't know how I do it.
09:06And she brought this to me, that you wake up every day, you think about how much of yourself you
09:11have to offer, and then you decide who gets what ahead of time.
09:15Because if you don't decide who gets what ahead of time, people will gradually come and take things from you
09:22as they engage with you.
09:23And the truth of the matter is, for Black folks, specifically Black women, it's historically white people, depending on where
09:31you work.
09:31So you've given all of your niceties to your boss, to your colleagues, and you get home, and you don't
09:36have the energy to say anything nice to your man, right?
09:39He might deserve to be cussed out, but maybe not as much as you did, right?
09:43You don't have the energy to enjoy your children.
09:46You don't have the energy to enjoy a bath.
09:48You're just bathing to make it to bed, not bathing to take the 20 minutes to rest.
09:53And so every day, I think about how much I have.
09:56Sometimes that's 20%.
09:57Sometimes it's 100.
09:58And then I say, who gets it?
10:00Black women get it first.
10:02Yep.
10:02Right?
10:03Black children.
10:04And as I go through my day, there's times I won't even engage with white people, not because white people
10:10aren't human beings,
10:11but because I'm not going to risk not having something for you if you call me and you say, hey,
10:17I need you to show up for me.
10:19And Black women, I want to say, the indoctrination, the oppression, the belief that you are simply a vessel of
10:25giving,
10:26they don't make every human being do that.
10:28And they are trying to gaslight y'all into thinking that every person does that.
10:32And I'm telling you, they don't.
10:34I wasn't tired for real until I transitioned.
10:37And that is the plight of womanhood.
10:40I wouldn't trade it for the world.
10:42But it's a truth that y'all are, they expect y'all to feel like it's a gift.
10:47And I'm telling you, it's an albatross.
10:51Yes, yes, yes, yes.
10:54Yes.
10:55Now, I want to talk about joy because we talked about, you know, divesting all those things.
11:00But why is pleasure a radical act?
11:04The girls need to be busting nuts.
11:07Listen.
11:08Say it again.
11:09The girls need to be busting nuts.
11:10A lot of y'all are angry because y'all don't bust no nuts.
11:14And that doesn't have to be from somebody else.
11:16It doesn't have to be from somebody else, I promise you.
11:18And the fellas, a lot of y'all are angry because y'all won't bust nuts the way y'all
11:21want to.
11:22Huh?
11:24Yeah.
11:25Release the shame.
11:26Release the shame.
11:27And pleasure is important because if you don't define pleasure, someone else will.
11:33And so a lot of people are chasing a definition of pleasure.
11:35They've been given from watching TV, TikTok, whatever, and it doesn't meet your need.
11:40And you don't realize you deserve to say, like, this feels good to me.
11:43And sometimes the most pleasure is taking a nap with someone you care about or a nap alone.
11:48So that's really important.
11:50You can't have a liberation practice without understanding how pleasure comes through that.
11:54And I think that the word practice is so important, right?
11:58Because we think we're just going to naturally come upon what feels pleasurable.
12:02No, you've got to try stuff out.
12:03You've got to figure out what works for you, what doesn't work for you, and then be centered enough in
12:09your own agency to say, I do want this.
12:12I don't want that.
12:14And it takes practice to be able to articulate it, to be able to describe it, to be able to
12:19own it, to be able to evolve it.
12:21All of this stuff is about building muscle.
12:23And if we let those muscles atrophy, we won't have the muscle memory that we need when it's time to
12:28use it.
12:29So, like, let's get in the gym, right?
12:31Whatever the gym, the pleasure gym looks like for you, build those muscles so that it can become habitual.
12:37And for you two women who are on the front lines of this, which, can we get a round of
12:43applause for that, for the way that they show up for us every single day?
12:47What role does beauty, self-care, and ritual play in you all coming back center after?
12:56You know, I know I told you I'm a double PK, but before my mother was an ordained minister, she
13:02was a first lady of a very large and historic church in St. Louis where I grew up.
13:06It's actually where Dredd and Harriet Scott went to church.
13:08It was the second church built on that side of the Mississippi by formerly enslaved Africans.
13:14And I watched the ritual of Saturday morning going to the hairdresser, Saturday afternoon going to Dillard's, and going to
13:25the makeup counter, and getting the only makeup for us in that pink packaging.
13:29Shout out to Fashion Fair, okay?
13:32There was no, there was no Fenty, there was no, no Fashion Fair.
13:37Fashion, yeah.
13:37And watching the care with which the black woman on one side of the counter handed that pink packaging over
13:43to my mother to make sure it was just the right shade, just the right color.
13:47And then, you know, laying out the clothes the night before, making sure your stockings don't have no runs in
13:52them, and if they do put some nail polish on them, right?
13:55And then waking up in the morning and having that ritual of getting dressed together and watching my mother adorn
14:01herself because she deserved it, because she understood the divinity of her being.
14:06So it wasn't just about I'm representing my husband or I'm helping lead this church.
14:11It was about I want to see and give permission to other black women who are in these pews that
14:17they don't have to be ashamed to be adorned or adored.
14:20And so that ritual is something that continues to stick with me.
14:25I love beauty.
14:26I love fashion.
14:27I love taking the time to decide how I want to feel and therefore what I want to look like
14:32because I deserve to be adorned and adored.
14:34Yes, yes.
14:36It's always kind of an interesting space of tension because there are folks who look at specifically black trans women
14:43in the social space, and they feel like our presentation is a cosplay of womanhood, right?
14:49And at the same time, the way that you show up, specifically the way that I look every day, actualizes
14:55safety for me at varying degrees.
14:57So not only a base level of safety when the sex on my ID matches the way people want me
15:04to look, right?
15:05But also when we're looking at white supremacy and other systems, how much I'm into the way the look is
15:12supposed to come.
15:13It allows me to walk into different spaces.
15:15And so you're trying to tread the line of engaging in what you know is about safety while also recognizing
15:22that there are so many black women who what we see online feels unattainable to them.
15:28And so you feel counter to what black womanhood looks like.
15:32And I think what I try to do in the way that I show up is the things that feel
15:37comfortable for me.
15:38And also, I don't give them room to play on my time.
15:43If you this is a way I love to show up.
15:46I also love a nasty muumuu in a bonnet.
15:49And I feel like a baddie in both.
15:52And that's the type of black mother I grew up with who dyed her hair in the I've never knew
15:57my mother to go to a hair salon, right?
15:59I put on a little rouge on the holidays type things.
16:03That's that's what I witnessed.
16:04And that's what I wanted to grow up and see.
16:06And I think even me being on the beauty con stage, I'll put the trans girls on the activist stages.
16:11But for me to be here is really a huge thing.
16:14And Brown Sugar Babe making that decision means the messages I've gotten from from black trans girls on Instagram in
16:23the last 24 hours watching these things and these experiences.
16:28We won't build sisterhood if we don't get to be together.
16:32Amen.
16:33And and if people overstep, that's where you have the relationship to say there's been some overstepping.
16:38This is how you reel it back.
16:39But but people don't get to learn until we're in space together.
16:43And so that the beauty component allows me to flourish in my black womanhood, but also allows me to learn
16:51and grow with my sisters.
16:52And can I just say absolutely applaud for that.
16:56Can I just say it is so important what you just said, especially in the way that Brown Sugar Babe
17:01is demonstrating for us what sisterhood looks like right now.
17:05I tell my fellow cisgender sisters all the time, we are not getting free by oppressing our trans sisters.
17:12That's not how it functions.
17:14And your freedom is deeply interconnected with mine.
17:17It is my business.
17:18You are my bond and magnitude to quote our sister Gwendolyn Bond.
17:22And I am grateful.
17:25The first time I ever met Shannon Balenciaga, I was like, you helped me step into an ownership of my
17:31femininity and instead of be ashamed of it.
17:33And I'm having this conversation with a black trans woman.
17:36There's so much for us to give each other if we simply open up our hearts and minds to recognize
17:41that this is a sacred sisterhood.
17:43Well, Brown Sugar Babe, thank you.
17:46Okay, so we're not done.
17:47We're not done.
17:48I just had to say a thank you to Brown Sugar Babe.
17:50Because like you said, this is a proper representation of what black sisterhood and black community should look like.
17:56Now, for our final question, I do want to ask, because of course we are up here with Brown Sugar
18:00Babe.
18:00I want to talk about how fragrance becomes a part of feeling good, becomes a part of resistance, all of
18:09those things.
18:09In what ways have fragrance, and I'm not just talking about fragrance that we apply.
18:14It could be the scent of your grandmother's kitchen.
18:17It could be, in what ways do scents and fragrance play a role in the resistance, in activism, in us
18:25feeling like ourselves?
18:28This may sound extra to people, but I base this on my values, but also both of my parents passed
18:34away before I was 27.
18:35And so fragrance at times is the only way I get to remember them.
18:38I have my mom's jars of her Avon cream.
18:41I have my dad's Stetson.
18:43I keep that.
18:45Fragrance is the evidence that you were there.
18:49And so what I love about that in my own practice and like having the world cracked open to a
18:55Brown Sugar Babe about three months ago is the way that when we go in for the hug, people, there's
19:01that thing, right?
19:02They're like, hold on, hold on, hold on.
19:04Stay here a second longer.
19:05Yeah, you know, we all have that auntie.
19:06You know exactly how that auntie smelled.
19:08That grandmother, I think that is something that is so powerful.
19:12And the way Brown Sugar Babe infuses it in a way that feels accessible.
19:16Because sometimes fragrance can feel very scary.
19:18The girls can be very bougie.
19:21They can.
19:22The way oils, us not being ashy, we know that.
19:26Huh?
19:28And if you got to start with Vaseline and you build a Brown Sugar Babe, it's accessible.
19:32And that's what I love.
19:33And I get to explore.
19:34It's beautiful.
19:35Yes.
19:36This is such a perfect closing question.
19:38Because in the work that we do, we ask people not just to think about what we are trying to
19:45tear down, but what we are trying to build.
19:47Not just what our ancestors were running away from, but what they were running toward.
19:52And therefore, what does freedom look like?
19:54Radical imagination requires that we use every single sense we have to design the world we deserve.
20:00What does it look like?
20:01What does it sound like?
20:03What does it feel like?
20:04What does it smell like?
20:05For me, it smells like Avon Skin So Soft, right?
20:08Because the memories of somebody taking care to protect me before I went outside is something that makes me feel
20:15safe and covered, right?
20:18And so it smells like Avon Skin So Soft, the world that I deserve, because I want all these children
20:23to be playing and running around outside catching lightning bugs, which are back, by the way, and do so safely,
20:29right?
20:30And be covered.
20:30That glisten that we have when we send our children out, right?
20:34That means somebody cares about you.
20:35Somebody loves you.
20:37The fact that you smell good, that means somebody cares about you.
20:40Somebody loves you.
20:41And so to me, the most radical thing we can do is love each other so deeply and so unrelentingly
20:48that we build the world we deserve.
20:50And when we focus on what it looks like, what it sounds like, what it feels like, and what it
20:55smells like, we can get there together.
20:59Now, ladies, as we close, quickly, one thing that you are leaving behind and one thing that you are carrying
21:05into the future.
21:06I am leaving behind, I'm leaving behind unnecessary sacrifice.
21:15And I am keeping, I am keeping my first fruits.
21:21I am leaving behind expectations I used to have.
21:27Even though I had accomplished things, I put myself in limitations.
21:31And I'm taking forward letting myself be afraid again.
21:35I think there's a level of success that you gain that will keep you less afraid and more afraid because
21:41you know what to do.
21:42But in that space of being afraid, I think that's where the magic happens.
21:46So I want to be, I want to be scared again.
21:49Dominique Morgan and Brittany Cunningham, everybody.
21:53Thank you all so much for joining us.
21:56Thank you, Brown Sugar Babe, for facilitating this powerful conversation.
21:59We love you guys.
22:00Make sure that you guys visit the Brown Sugar Babe booth, which is straight back there.
22:04You cannot miss it.
22:05And stay tuned because the Beautycon stage is just getting started.
22:12Let's see.
22:12Bye-bye.
22:34Don't want to feel you, don't want you on my mind.
22:38Don't want to feel you, don't want you on my mind.
22:42Don't want to
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