00:00Today is the big question. Is the Supreme Court monitored probe into the Ram Mandir theft needed?
00:04Does the UP government's probe inspire trust? Will the big players really get away or will all be
00:11accountable? Vrijesh Kalappa, Congress National Spokesperson. Rohan Gupta, BJP National Spokesperson.
00:18Arvind Kumar Jain, former DGPUP. I have limited time, gentlemen. Ten minutes on it. So please
00:23keep your answers short and sharp. Let's start with what is the basic point. A Supreme Court
00:28ordered probe. Vrijesh Kalappa, why is the Congress seeking a Supreme Court ordered probe? Are
00:34you not convinced that an SIT which has already arrested eight people and is claiming they
00:39are questioning everyone, does it not inspire trust at all? Why not allow it to complete
00:44its task? See, the first thing is, not just as a lawyer, but also having been in government,
00:55I know for a fact that anytime an SIT has been constituted, that SIT has always been a means
01:02to make sure that small, you know, fry get caught and the big fish actually escape. This
01:09actually happened in the Shabarimala case also, which was in Kerala. And I've seen the outcome
01:14of what happened in Shabarimala. Huge amount of gold had been lost. And ultimately what happened
01:20is, this turned into such a tsunami of anger against the government. And this is bound
01:26to happen in Uttar Pradesh. It's bound to happen against the BJP. When Sant Kabir said so many
01:32years ago that Ram naam ki loot hai, aur loot sakho toh loot, I think the BJP took it extremely
01:42seriously and they thought that this was meant to loot. They, what Kabir said was that-
02:01is that what you are claiming? No, this, the same SIT was what happened in Shabarimala.
02:11The CPM also had a similar SIT. What happened was that the big fish were all let go and the
02:17small fish, some very, very small fry were actually caught. So this is something which
02:22is a repeat. Every government does it. And the first question is, Rajdeep, I think we must
02:27all ask ourselves, the Ram temple has been constructed just a couple of years ago. Have
02:32there not been temples like Tirupati, like Vaishno Devi, like Shirdi, which have been running,
02:38you know, massive donations, receiving massive donations and there's not an allegation against
02:45them. The point is that as far as Ram Janabhumi is concerned, since 1990 this loot has been
02:51going on. So it's the absolute impunity that we are not going to get caught that urged these
02:57people to do this. It's the sheer impunity, the sheer audacity.
03:02Let me bring in Rohan Gupta. I've heard you. Okay. Rohan Gupta, do you believe an SIT can
03:09actually catch the big fish? According to Brijesh Kalappa and the Congress, you heard KC Venugopal
03:15saying the big fish will get away, that only the small people will be caught by an SIT. Also,
03:21there's conflict of interest. You've got people on the trust who are also associated with the
03:26UP government. Can they investigate their own? I think, Rajdeep, it is a matter of intention.
03:33And I'm telling very candidly on your channel, for BJP and for BJP government, it is must that
03:39we ensure that the culprits are out because it is matter of faith for us. Ram Bandir is matter
03:44of faith for us and people have trusted BJP on that. After 500 years, if BJP could build the Ram
03:50Temple with the help of people, why don't we come out and openly ensure that these people are
03:55exposed? So it is a matter of our faith also and our intention. And Mr. Kalappa, I think he has
03:59exposed his government for last one and a half months. In Kerala, who is the government in Kerala?
04:04You could have set an example. This is the SIT in UP. Within three days, they submitted the
04:10reports. Seven people were arrested. Now SIT has again gone. As for the remand, 20 lakh rupees have
04:15been recovered. So there's a difference between SIT in BJP and SIT in Congress now. One and a half
04:20months, what you have done is... No, but what is the fear, sir, to ensure, given the public trust,
04:26that public trust is involved, what's the problem in having a Supreme Court monitored investigation?
04:32See, Rajdeep, I think you've asked a pertinent question. Now, when the Congress Party talks about
04:37Supreme Court, the same Congress Party told that we will either or we will respect the decision of
04:42Supreme Court after the Ram Mandir was built. And for two years, none of the Syrian leader went to
04:46Ram Temple. Where is the respect of Supreme Court? Abrogation of Article 370, Congress Party told that
04:52we'll respect Supreme Court. Why did they didn't respect Supreme Court? Shah Banu case, did they respect
04:57Supreme Court? No. SIR verdict, did they respect the Supreme Court? No. Rafael case, did they respect the
05:03Supreme Court? No. So for them, Supreme Court is Supreme Court.
05:06No, but why the reluctance to have a Supreme Court monitored probe? No, no, no. When there
05:10were Pegasus allegations, other allegations against your government, why are you reluctant
05:15to have a Supreme Court monitored probe? Absolutely. There is no reluctance, Rajdeep. The law is taking
05:20its own scores. Every day, whatever SIT is doing, it is in front of you, in front of people.
05:25Every day, things are moving. And even just for a matter of one person, we will ensure that
05:31people's trust is not weighted. It is opportunity for us to ensure that the culprits who have taken
05:37Ram Mandir Chanda, they will be taken to task. Every day, it will be transparent in front of people.
05:43And after that, even one person think is that, definitely we can look at it. But as of now,
05:47when the process is going on... No, because many of these appointments to the trust have been made by the
05:51highest... You see, the problem is many of the trust... members of the trust have been appointees of the
05:57government of the day. Whether in Delhi or Lucknow, some of them were linked to these
06:01governments. They are linked to a wider sangh paribar. Therefore, to ensure that there is
06:06absolutely an independent inquiry, just why do you need a UP government inquiry? Why not a Supreme
06:14Court monitored probe?
06:16See, Rajdeep, people who have bettered trust of Ram Janmubhumi Temple or the people who have
06:22been worshiping Lord Ram. I think that there is no margin for them. Whoever appointed him, whoever
06:28has been in trust, no one is up or not, doesn't make a difference. For us, we have to set
06:33the
06:33example. It is a method for faith for all of us. So, we won't leave a single chance to, you
06:39know, for
06:39anybody to raise any question. And the process is going on. Every day, you are seeing that things are
06:44happening. So, you tell me, when the Congress Party talks about Supreme Court monitored investigation,
06:51that is the respect for Supreme Court. Tomorrow, if you put that also, they will again ask the
06:56question. Because for them, Ram Mandir issue is not the issue of faith. It is the issue of politics.
07:01And that's why people don't trust them. And again, I'm assuring your channel. Every day,
07:05the society is again gone today. You see, the demand has been happening. Transparently, the things are
07:10coming out every day. None of the single machli or the biggest magarmach will be left. It is, we have
07:16to
07:16set an example in minds of people that for next generation, nobody tries to do anything with any
07:20temples money like this. Okay. AK Jain, are you, these are politicians, they will give their
07:27respective sides. You've been a police officer. Do you believe an SIT is the answer given that there
07:32are strong links between some of the government officials who have been members of the trust and
07:38additional home secretary among others and indeed the SIT team? Do you believe a state ordered probe is
07:45better in a case like this? Or should it be Supreme Court ordered, monitored?
07:50They are just ex-officio members. They don't have any say in the functioning of the trust or
07:57Ram Janam group. They are just there to, for LAZA purposes, for coordination purposes with the
08:05state government, with the district administration. That's all. Their role is limited to that.
08:10You must understand that this trust was appointed by PMO and no officer posted either at Lucknow or
08:19Ayodhya has guts to say that, no, I will not abide by what the trustee is saying. I'll do whatever
08:26I
08:26feel like. Now things are changing there at Ayodhya, just like Kashi Dham and other places. Frisking is
08:35going on. Double lock is there. What all should have been done is now being carried out. In the
08:43present circumstances. So you have full confidence? So you have full confidence and faith in this SIT
08:49that the SIT will ensure that no one howsoever big is protected? I'm quite confident about it because
08:59UPCM is ensuring on everyday basis, day-to-day basis, that all the accused people are being interrogated.
09:06That's why 15 days time has been given. Now, UPCM can appoint a probe under a retired Supreme Court
09:15judge. If probe is to be under sitting Supreme Court judge, then Supreme Court has to take decision. And if
09:25Supreme Court takes a decision, state government will abide by it. But till the time, I think SIT is
09:31doing a very good job. They're outstanding officers, in my opinion. And they are camping there. They
09:38are interrogating people. They are trying to find out the modus operandi, who all are involved in it.
09:44There are no two opinions that several appointees are relatives and friends of Mr. Anil Mishra and
09:51other people. This should not have been done. It's a very, very, it's a big security hazard also.
09:57You are appointing people left and right without any character verification, without any police
10:03verification. Now everything is being done and should be done.
10:08Okay. I just want to get a final word from you, Rajesh Kalappa, because Rohan Gupta says that
10:12for the Congress party and the opposition, this is not about faith. It's about politics,
10:16that you are wanting to politicize this entire investigation. Tomorrow, a Supreme Court probe
10:21is ordered. If it doesn't come in your favor, you will say this probe has been influenced by the
10:25government. This is the argument.
10:30See, Rajdeep, I think as far as the role of the politics in this whole thing is concerned, let's
10:36examine the role of Honorable Prime Minister Modi. He was there at the inauguration. He was there at the
10:41Pran Parathishtra. It's how many days has it been since this huge disclosure came out, has even opened
10:47his mouth. So it's obvious who is playing politics and who is not. And the second part is that even
10:54an
10:55invader like Mohammed Ghazni had to come 17 times to steal the gold of temples. And what is Mr. What
11:03is
11:03happening in the Ram Janambhumi temple? You don't need to be an invader. You can be, you don't need to
11:10be a marauder. You can be an insider and earn, you know, just as much as somebody who has come
11:16like
11:16Mohammed Ghazni. Isn't that not obvious to all of us today? People say that watch out for your slippers.
11:23Watch out for your slippers in a temple because somebody may steal them. But what is happening inside
11:28the temple? What is happening inside the Bhundi? This is something which, you know, people are
11:33stealing from inside. How can this be prevented? For something which, you know, we are so long.
11:42Yeah, but I, you see, this is about the Rohan Gupta final word, 30 seconds.
11:47See Rajdeep, I am happy at least after two years, Congress is ready to accept the acceptance of Lord
11:53Ram and the Ram temple. How shamelessly they are asking questions. He's talking about Modi.
11:58Where is Mr. Rahul Gandhi? Has he gone to Ram temple? I think you should go there and do the
12:02prize sheet along with the top leaders that for 20, for two years, even after Supreme Court judgment,
12:07they didn't respect the Supreme Court judgment and never went to Ram's temple. So I think again,
12:12I'm promising you, Rajdeep, it's a matter of faith for us. We'll ensure that everybody under the sun
12:17will be taken to task and a strong example will be said to this kind of people. So we are
12:21not
12:21going to leave them. The people of this country are not going to leave Congress for this hypocrisy.
12:27Okay, I'm going to leave it there. I'm also going to leave it there. I appreciate my guests joining
12:31us. We'll wait and see where this probe goes. The proof of the pudding will be in the eating.
12:35Thank you both, all of you, all three of you for joining me. I want to turn to...
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