Called to Preach or Called to Perform | Chino Ross | Podcast Episode 649 - video Dailymotion

William Branham Historical Research

John and Chino examine the supernatural origin stories used by healing evangelists, prophetic ministers, and later charismatic leaders to authenticate their ministries. From William Branham’s birth-light story to Kenneth Hagin’s death-and-hell testimony, Oral Roberts’ 900-foot Jesus, and Hobart Freeman’s personal prophecy from Anna Schrader, the discussion traces how extraordinary claims became a substitute for character, study, accountability, and biblical qualification.  The conversation also explores Hobart Freeman’s contradiction: he warned against personal prophecy, yet his own ministry was shaped by one — and he later gave personal prophecies to family members, including Bruce Kinsey. The result was a system where ministers validated one another, prophecy replaced discernment, and followers were left carrying the spiritual damage.  This episode asks a hard question: when every preacher needs a supernatural origin story, who is checking whether the call is real?  00:00 Introduction 0:31 Called to Preach or Just Looking for a Platform? 3:38 Why Ministers Create Supernatural Origin Stories 7:16 Healing Revival Leaders and Their Fantastic Claims 12:02 Hobart Freeman and the Need for Prophetic Validation 15:45 What Should a Real Call to Ministry Look Like? 18:06 Three Types of People Who Claim a Calling 21:47 Chino’s Own Call to Ministry Without the Spectacle 24:49 Ministry as Work, Not a Golden Goose 28:16 Personal Prophecy and “A Word from the Lord” 31:18 Hobart Freeman’s Contradiction on Personal Prophecy 32:19 The “Road Home from a Nightclub” Conversion Story 36:51 How Outlandish Claims Distract the Listener 38:36 Fake Diamonds and Mutual Ministry Validation 41:07 Was Hobart Freeman Deceived, Dangerous, or Both? 44:24 Real Ministry Without Headlines or Money 47:00 Freeman Breaks His Own Rule on Personal Prophecy 49:05 Hobart Prophesies Over Bruce and Kathy Kinsey 53:05 Why the Bruce Kinsey Prophecy Mattered 56:10 When Personal Prophecies Fail 58:10 Experience-Based Ministry Turns Everything Backwards  ______________________ Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR: Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962 Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K ______________________ – Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham – Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ – Visit the website: https://william-branham.org – Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg  – Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham – Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr – Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books

Transcript

00:00:31Hello, and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast.

00:00:35I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research

00:00:40at william-branham.org, and with me I have my co-host, minister, and friend, Cheno Ross,

00:00:45pastor and the voice of the understanding, scripture, and truth by Cheno D. Ross' YouTube

00:00:50channel.

00:00:51Cheno, it's good to be back and to talk about all things divinely inspired calls to preach.

00:00:58I knew this guy, and I probably shouldn't be telling this because somebody's probably

00:01:03going to figure out who this is, but I knew this guy who did not like to work, and I'm

00:01:09just going to be out there in the open.

00:01:11He was not the kind that you would rely on if you needed anything done.

00:01:15I've got a pretty strong work ethic.

00:01:17I think you know me enough to know this by now.

00:01:19Well, we're always hard workers.

00:01:22You give us a job, we do it, and the Collins family, on our side, man, we sometimes work

00:01:29100 hours a week easy and just keep going.

00:01:32That's how our work ethic was.

00:01:34But we would meet these people that weren't, and it was always odd to me because it's unfamiliar.

00:01:39I didn't understand it, but one of them, he was struggling to keep employment, and he

00:01:46said, God has called me to preach.

00:01:49And I remember even back then, I wasn't really applying much critical thinking.

00:01:53You really didn't have to to see that this guy was trying to get on a gravy train, and

00:01:58that's exactly what he was doing.

00:02:00And the funny part about it is, if you're a preacher and you do it right, it's also work.

00:02:05You have to study, you have to prepare, and I'll just say it like this.

00:02:09There are some people that really aren't caught out to do preaching, and I'll leave it at that.

00:02:14But in the movement that sprung from this, which Hobart Freeman would be part of that,

00:02:19and here's where I'm headed with this, in the movement that came after this, the funny

00:02:24part of it is, they really didn't care.

00:02:27They didn't really vet the preachers.

00:02:30If somebody said, hey, I'm called to preach, they'd come up to the platform, and you'd

00:02:34have somebody prophesy over them or lay hands on the ministry.

00:02:37And so the people in the audience see this thing, and they see this divinely inspired transition

00:02:43of power to this new person that they don't have a clue who it is or if he's even fit

00:02:48to

00:02:48preach.

00:02:48And then that guy would rise up.

00:02:50Fast forward to today, because this is a much broader picture that I think we're covering

00:02:57it in this podcast, but some of the others I'm doing, we're going to go a little bit

00:03:00deeper with this.

00:03:01Fast forward to the modern New Apostolic Reformation's prophetic movement.

00:03:06Some of the people, not only were they not fit to preach, they weren't really fit to lead

00:03:12people or even be around young people.

00:03:14There's some really, really bad things happening.

00:03:17And it all comes from this.

00:03:19People who are claiming to be, have the calling, people who are in this movement that claim

00:03:25that they have some sort of calling, a lot of time it's just intuition or some gut feeling,

00:03:30and they mistake that for the Holy Spirit's calling.

00:03:33And with that, I'll let you introduce the topic we're getting into.

00:03:38Well, an excellent introduction as always, Sean, because you never know exactly where I'm

00:03:42going.

00:03:42I give you like a title sentence, and you've got to come up with your own intro.

00:03:46There's a very famous statement you've probably heard.

00:03:50Some were called, some were sent, and some just packed up and went.

00:03:56And I've heard that my whole Christian life and how true that is.

00:04:03I do want to probe a little today to begin with into why these men feel the need to fabricate

00:04:14these fantastic stories of origin, how they were called into the ministry, or how they came

00:04:25about realizing or suspecting that a divine call was on his or her life to go into the ministry.

00:04:37And if we look at people like William Branham, an early forefather of all of this, I know you

00:04:48have done plenty of earlier podcasts on early aspects of Branham's life, but there were angelic

00:04:57visitations, supposedly.

00:04:59This was all according to William Branham.

00:05:02When he was born, I think a light, like a pillow, came into the window, and he would

00:05:07have known that.

00:05:08So he had to learn of that later from his mother or some bystander.

00:05:12And also, a lot of these people, and I think Branham would be in this category, had relatives.

00:05:20Generally, they're female for some reason.

00:05:23It's not the father.

00:05:24It's like the mother and the grandmother, or the mother or the grandmother, were seers or

00:05:31prophetesses, or if they didn't want to use technical terminology, maybe they were sensitive

00:05:38to the Holy Spirit, sensitive to spiritual things, and you almost have this passing down from

00:05:47one generation to another.

00:05:50We look at someone like Kenneth Hagin, who, you know, he was a Midwestern-born boy back in

00:06:01the, I think, the teens, 1917 or something like that, in McKinney, Texas.

00:06:09He had, if they didn't have an angelic visitation, they had some kind of incurable illness, or maybe

00:06:17they had both.

00:06:18Maybe they had a visitation from heaven, but they also had a deformity.

00:06:22I think Kenneth Hagin claimed to have had a deformed heart.

00:06:25Robert, and he went on to claim that he died several times and went to hell and experienced

00:06:35or witnessed the horrors and the torments of hell and then came back, you know, and then

00:06:42he was called into the ministry.

00:06:44Oral Roberts, who I think was born in Oklahoma, he had incurable tuberculosis whenever he was

00:06:53a child, you know, all of these guys had some stories that most of us didn't have.

00:07:02We definitely didn't have these angelic visitations, these whisperings, audible voices from above,

00:07:09or lights coming into the bedroom, and most of us didn't have these incurable illnesses.

00:07:16You know, Oral Roberts went on.

00:07:18And if you look at all of these guys, just the ones I mentioned, and you could mention

00:07:22Jack Coe and A.A. Allen and Dowie and, you know, T.L. Osborne, so many of them that were

00:07:32a part of the first half of the 20th century and a part of the healing Pentecostal revival

00:07:39movement.

00:07:39The big name guys generally had some kind of story behind them that they would use to

00:07:48authenticate, to vindicate themselves and their message.

00:07:53Oral Roberts went on even later in life, according to his testimony, to have visions like whenever

00:08:00he was going to build his great city of faith there in Tulsa, this huge medical facility.

00:08:06See, I'll never forget, because I, you know, this was when I was in the, I had already become

00:08:13a Christian, so I'm a part of the movement in the 1970s, and that's when all of this happened

00:08:18with Oral Roberts in the late 70s and early 1980s.

00:08:23He saw a 900-foot-tall Jesus.

00:08:29I don't know how he knew he was 900 feet tall, but that's always the way he told the story,

00:08:35that Jesus appeared to him, and he was 900 feet tall.

00:08:40I mean, it's just fantastic stories.

00:08:43You just look at this and go, really?

00:08:45And people believe that?

00:08:48They absolutely did.

00:08:49It's coming out of the lips of, you know, a well-known healing evangelist from the 1950s

00:08:54and 1960s.

00:08:56And this Jesus told Oral Roberts that he needed to find a cure for cancer, and he was going

00:09:04to find a cure for cancer.

00:09:06And if he didn't build this medical facility, that Jesus was going to take his life, that

00:09:11he was going to kill him.

00:09:13And so, Oral Roberts, I mean, we need to pause and just say, think about that for a moment.

00:09:19Use some critical thinking that God's threatening he's going to kill you if you don't build this

00:09:23medical facility.

00:09:25So, Oral Roberts did, and it was cutting edge.

00:09:29And it came through donations of countless people out there sending in $10 and $20, people

00:09:38living on a Social Security check, sending the little bit that they could.

00:09:43Because, don't forget, Oral Roberts was famous for his seed faith theology, that if you will

00:09:48plant a seed into this ministry, God will give you a hundredfold return.

00:09:54And people just, you know, ate that up like cotton candy to hear, wow, if I can just manage

00:10:02to budget $10 to give to Oral Roberts, I can have that multiplied by a hundred.

00:10:09And so, people like Oral Roberts preyed on people like that, desperate people, who didn't

00:10:16have many means to live on anyway, and was able to build this city of faith, you know,

00:10:23one of the largest in the world medical facilities at the time.

00:10:26And what?

00:10:27It lasted, I don't know, someone can look up the facts, five or six or less than 10 years,

00:10:32you know, and they had to close the doors on that thing.

00:10:35So, that did not seem like that was a valid call from God.

00:10:39I guess, maybe, John, they're looking in their Bible, and they're seeing these calls of these

00:10:46great men of God, like Isaiah.

00:10:49In Isaiah 6, he said, I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, high and lifted up.

00:10:55And he sees these multi-winged seraphim, and they're bowing before the throne and saying,

00:11:01holy, holy, holy, or Ezekiel's call.

00:11:04That's unforgettable in chapter one of his prophecy, where he sees these four living

00:11:11creatures with four different faces on four different sides of their heads, and they're

00:11:17multi-winged.

00:11:18And they are accompanying wheels within a wheels, which is carrying a chariot, which is carrying

00:11:26the throne of God.

00:11:27Or everybody knows Saul of Tarsus, his experience on the road to Damascus.

00:11:33So, I think they read their Bible, and they see these stories, and I believe all three

00:11:39of those stories that I just shared, because they're in my Bible, and they go out thinking,

00:11:47well, I need to have something like that.

00:11:49And so, you know, they, I hate to say it, but they manufacture, as you said, you know, they

00:11:56feel some impression, they close their eyes, and they see a vision, and they manufacture

00:12:03something that isn't really there.

00:12:06And where I want to go with this with regard to Dr. Hobart Freeman is, thankfully, he never

00:12:14claimed any kind of angelic visitation.

00:12:18He did claim that angels had been seen by him as he ministered in the spirit and would

00:12:25pray for healings of people.

00:12:27So, when he's up on the platform by the pulpit, people said, oh, I had a vision, and I saw

00:12:32an angel.

00:12:33But if you don't have lights coming into your room at birth, and your mother and grandmother

00:12:40aren't prophetesses, then how are you going to enter into this big-time ministry realm?

00:12:49Maybe this is not as big-time Hobart Freeman as Branham and Hagen and Roberts.

00:12:56It certainly wasn't.

00:12:57Those men were on a much higher level as far as their influence and the number of followers

00:13:02that they have.

00:13:03So, if you are on tier two, if you're on second-level minister, then how are you going

00:13:11to have a ministry?

00:13:12Well, we talked about this, John, a few weeks ago with Hobart's trip to Dallas, Texas, and

00:13:18the prophetess down there, Anna Schrader.

00:13:21The next best thing, if you don't have an angelic visitation or a light coming through your

00:13:28room, the next best thing is to have a prophecy given by one of these people.

00:13:36And so, you see that frequently.

00:13:38They are simply piggybacking on a better-known person prior to them.

00:13:46And all of these ministers have that, where if they had the angelic visitation, they've

00:13:52got ministers under them that didn't.

00:13:55But as long as you were laying hands on those people and prophesying ministry for them, you

00:14:02know, then it's almost like you could say, well, this is like Elisha and the schools of

00:14:07the prophets, you know, back in the book of 2 Kings.

00:14:10And so, what Hobart would say is that I had this end-time ministry of faith and healing

00:14:20and deliverance through the vision and prophecy of the well-known, well-respected, and charismatic

00:14:28Pentecostal circles, prophetess Anna Schrader.

00:14:32And that carried a lot of weight.

00:14:34That carried a lot of weight.

00:14:36And we're not recovering that territory.

00:14:39We looked at it before.

00:14:40But that carried a lot of weight in Hobart's mind.

00:14:43I mean, he truly, I think, until probably the day of his death, at least the very end of

00:14:51his life, I don't know what kind of thoughts were going through his mind the day and the

00:14:56hour and the moments that he died.

00:14:58But that prophecy meant so much to him.

00:15:02We saw earlier it wasn't fulfilled.

00:15:04The things that she said that would happen to him did not happen.

00:15:08And so, that immediately becomes classified as a false prophecy.

00:15:14Even the best and most gullible of people out there would have to say at least part of

00:15:19that has to be classified as a false prophecy.

00:15:22And then, where do we ever draw the line?

00:15:26When do we know what we can believe and what not?

00:15:29I mean, we can obviously wait until things don't happen.

00:15:31Someone dies, and we know it's not true.

00:15:34But meanwhile, you know, for 18 years, from 1966 to 1984, you know, you're waiting to see

00:15:43is any of this going to be fulfilled.

00:15:45I really do think they are trying to just duplicate things in the Bible, John, and to go back to

00:15:51your introduction.

00:15:53How does a minister know that he has a call?

00:15:58They feel something inside, and then what do they do with that?

00:16:06You know, I think, again, they are so desperate for some type of supernatural confirmation of it

00:16:14that to have had a personal call simply settled in your own mind and heart is not enough.

00:16:23It's simply not enough.

00:16:25And how do we know?

00:16:26How do you know, as a member of a church out there, that your pastor, teacher, leader, evangelist

00:16:35has a call?

00:16:37You know, look at Paul Cain.

00:16:38Look at Mike Bickle.

00:16:39Look at the ones in the current—I know Paul Cain is past tense now, but in the NAR now,

00:16:47it's still based upon a lot of supernatural stuff.

00:16:52Where I think where we should be looking is what you said earlier, to be a Christian minister

00:16:58does require a lot of work.

00:17:01It requires a lot of work in understanding the meaning and the teaching of Scripture.

00:17:08That's Old Testament, written originally in Hebrew.

00:17:11That's New Testament, originally in Greek.

00:17:14It's understanding the theology, and then it's being able to communicate that.

00:17:20Do you have a gift of teaching where, you know, it's worth people's time to come and sit and listen?

00:17:27And do you have the heart to lead people and love people and shepherd people and guide people?

00:17:33That's generally not what we see emphasized in the current movement.

00:17:39It's generally something that is way over the top emphasized rather than these very basic,

00:17:46elementary, but scriptural things.

00:17:48I'm not a minister and don't feel at all called to be—in fact, I feel called not to be a

00:17:56minister,

00:17:56so I'll say it like that.

00:17:58But I have known people who claimed that they did have the calling, and I mentioned one.

00:18:03That's just one example.

00:18:04I have met what I felt was probably a good example as well.

00:18:09And through my research, I've came across three different types.

00:18:13The first type is what I mentioned before, somebody who just really doesn't, you know,

00:18:19he doesn't want to take all of the time that it takes necessary to become a minister to learn.

00:18:26But he's taking advantage of the fact that the people don't really challenge this.

00:18:32So you've got people who they're preying upon, sadly, in my opinion,

00:18:38they're preying upon people who have either a mental disorder, which causes them to enjoy this kind of thing,

00:18:44or they have been indoctrinated to have a cult-related mental issue that causes them not to critically think about

00:18:52the minister.

00:18:53And so these types of people attract—sadly, they attract people to their ministries,

00:18:58and their ministries flourish as long as they can make something said that's funny,

00:19:03they can bring entertainment into the church,

00:19:05as long as you can give something to the people besides your ministry because you're not really doing that,

00:19:11you'll attract people because they're not—there's a lot of people out there with itching ears.

00:19:15I'll just say it like that.

00:19:16So that's one type of person.

00:19:18You've also got the type who are mentally ill, and they're preying upon people without knowing it

00:19:26because, sadly, some of the things that they see with regards to angels and demons,

00:19:31they're probably actually seeing them.

00:19:33Whenever I'm looking through—as I'm going through this research,

00:19:36I'm finding people in both of those categories,

00:19:38and that's the category that scares me even more because what's in their head is scary,

00:19:44but the fact that they're teaching people without proper psychological care,

00:19:49it tells me that you can—there's this thing where a projection happens,

00:19:55where their insanity is actually projected on the congregation,

00:19:58and the congregations just kind of go berserk.

00:20:00I've seen this in some of the examples.

00:20:03You can find UFO preachers and whatnot that you can just tell that guy's just a little bit crazy, right?

00:20:09But the people that I've met, and I've met some people like this who they told me,

00:20:14John, I feel a calling to preach, and it's opposite of both of those.

00:20:18When they feel a calling to preach, it's not a calling to become something.

00:20:23In those other two categories, those are men and women.

00:20:27Their calling makes them want to have higher esteem, more clout, better cars.

00:20:32Some of them go after wealth.

00:20:33Some of them go after power.

00:20:35Some of them just simply—they could care less about wealth than power.

00:20:38They just want the recognition.

00:20:39And so they want to become better than they were before, so they become a preacher.

00:20:43But the ones who have had a calling try to become the opposite of this.

00:20:48They get more humble.

00:20:49They want to be more like a servant.

00:20:51They want to serve the people, serve the congregation.

00:20:54And it's a different type of calling.

00:20:56That type of calling doesn't need an angel.

00:20:58It doesn't need a demon, you know?

00:21:01It's kind of funny that you mentioned Kenneth Hagin's going to hell.

00:21:04Well, the going to heaven was already taken by David Walker and William Branham.

00:21:08So you got—I can't go to heaven.

00:21:10That gimmick's already out there.

00:21:12I'm going to go to hell.

00:21:14And, you know, what I'm saying is I don't know if Hagin was insane or if he was just

00:21:18preying upon people that were insane.

00:21:19But that's insanity whenever you say something like this and say that's what is your big call

00:21:25to fame.

00:21:25And it wasn't the big one for him, but it was one of the bigger ones if you look through

00:21:30how he kind of developed.

00:21:32But the point I'm trying to make here is I think what the movement has projected as a

00:21:38call to the ministry is actually the opposite of what the call to the ministry should be.

00:21:44And for me, that's really problematic.

00:21:46I'm glad you're the one who said the insanity bit about Hagin and I didn't have to.

00:21:53Yeah, everything is so strange, John.

00:21:56You know, I was converted to Christianity when I was 15 years old.

00:22:00I had a true conversion experience.

00:22:03I was raised in church.

00:22:05I was a good kid.

00:22:06I obeyed my parents.

00:22:07I didn't cuss or drink or smoke or chew or go with women who do, as they say.

00:22:13You know, I had a good upbringing, but I wasn't, you know, I didn't love the Lord Jesus and

00:22:18I didn't follow his word.

00:22:20I had a true conversion experience when I was 15, almost 16.

00:22:26And I would say within a couple of years, probably by at least by the time I was 17,

00:22:3117 years old, you are a junior in high school.

00:22:34You know nothing.

00:22:35You're a child.

00:22:36You're a kid.

00:22:38I felt called to be a minister.

00:22:40Didn't know what that meant.

00:22:41Didn't know how to go about doing it.

00:22:44Just felt called to ministry and never had a vision, never had a dream, never had anyone

00:22:51lay hands on me.

00:22:53Fortunately or unfortunately, none of that happened.

00:22:56I just felt I was called to be a Christian minister and I didn't, you know, when that

00:23:01happened, you don't even know what that, what does that mean and what does that involve?

00:23:06And of course, you're not qualified by any stretch of the imagination at that age, but

00:23:12at least you're aware that this is what my future holds.

00:23:16And, you know, my conversion experience was true because from that day forward, I've never

00:23:22been the same.

00:23:22You know, I carried my Bible with me everywhere and now at school, everyone is saying, yeah,

00:23:27don't get around Chenna because he's going to have his Bible with you and he's going to

00:23:30be trying to share things from the Bible with you and it was, you know, I wasn't embarrassed

00:23:36to do it.

00:23:36Prior to that, I would have been embarrassed, you know, you would have been looked at as

00:23:40some weirdo or something and I didn't care what anybody thought.

00:23:44I just wanted to share my experience with other people.

00:23:47And so I immediately did what I knew to do and that was just begin reading the Bible, studying

00:23:54and I'm not going to go through my life's history, but, you know, one thing led to another

00:23:59and I just realized the Bible is a very, it's a difficult book in this sense that it is 66

00:24:10books with one divine author, but many human authors, it spans hundreds, several thousand

00:24:18years, there's all kinds of cultural issues, there's geography, there's archaeology, there

00:24:26are biblical languages, you need to know something about Hebrew and Greek, there are translations

00:24:32issues, there are textual criticism issues, there are all kinds of things.

00:24:38And I saw that early, I saw that by my early to mid-twenties and set myself down that path.

00:24:47But I think also what you said in the introduction, John, is so true, it's more true than people

00:24:54realize that some people choose ministry because they think it's a golden goose.

00:25:02They are, I hate to say it, but they are lazy to begin with.

00:25:09And when you think minister, you just got to preach once a week, Sunday morning, you can

00:25:16surely have a message by midnight on Saturday night for Sunday morning, then you've got Monday

00:25:24to Friday to Friday to play golf or do whatever you want to do.

00:25:30You know, I'm not going to talk about myself because that would be boasting, but that was

00:25:34not the way my life was.

00:25:36I just loved to study, love to read and poured myself into it and never could find enough time

00:25:45to study what I wanted to study.

00:25:46So I could say about myself, like you have said about yourself, I've never been a lazy

00:25:53individual.

00:25:53I've always been a hard worker.

00:25:55And to this day, I'm like tri-vocational.

00:25:58I do get to preach and teach, but I also run two other businesses.

00:26:04And those businesses generate all my income.

00:26:08And I accept and receive no payment, no income from my teaching and preaching side.

00:26:14And I love it.

00:26:16I absolutely love it that way because you don't have this horrible modern American conflict

00:26:24of interest where everybody's preaching for pay is what they're doing.

00:26:29I told you that earlier, one liner, some were called, some were sent, and some just packed

00:26:35up and went.

00:26:36I've got another one that I remember from early on in my Christian life.

00:26:41There was a sharecropper.

00:26:43I was born and raised, I was born in Memphis and then raised in Mississippi.

00:26:47So we had lots and lots of cotton fields down in Mississippi.

00:26:51You don't have them anymore.

00:26:52It's mostly rice.

00:26:54Cotton is grown in Texas and China.

00:26:56But when I was a child growing up, there were so many cotton fields and cotton plantations

00:27:01down in Mississippi.

00:27:02And you would see the sharecroppers out there going up and down.

00:27:08This was before, you know, international harvester and mechanical harvesting of cotton.

00:27:13You're picking cotton by hand and you have a bag over your back.

00:27:17And it is hard, tedious, difficult, sweat producing, labor intensive activity that you're involved

00:27:26in.

00:27:26And so the story probably wasn't true, but always humorously told that there was a sharecropper

00:27:33who had been up row, one row and down another picking cotton.

00:27:37He's getting to the middle of the day and he's still got a large second half of the cotton

00:27:43field that still needs to be harvested.

00:27:45And he looks up to the sky and he says just about that time, I feels that the Lord is

00:27:52calling

00:27:52me to preach because it's going to be an easier life than picking cotton.

00:27:59It's going to be an easier life than anything else.

00:28:01If you can just get into the pastorate, become a minister.

00:28:05And like I said, work late Saturday night for a Saturday morning sermon.

00:28:10That is not the way this happens.

00:28:13But what I'd like to do, if we've got a little time left, John, is to take this one step

00:28:20further,

00:28:21not talk so much or exclusively about the ministers and how some of them have received this calling

00:28:29by another minister over them who's laid hands on them and prophesied.

00:28:35I would like to take this into a related issue, a practice commonly referred to as personal

00:28:44prophecy.

00:28:46And what I mean by that personal prophecy is where one person prophesies over another person,

00:28:55giving them, if we can put in quotation marks, a word from the Lord.

00:29:02In Dr. Freeman's life and ministry, it is interesting that even though I didn't try to

00:29:08pull up some excerpts to demonstrate this, because I'm speaking favorably on behalf of

00:29:15Freeman now, maybe I don't need to prove it.

00:29:17You know, it's only whenever you're saying he said something that's wrong that we're trying

00:29:21to prove it.

00:29:22But Freeman actually taught against personal prophecies.

00:29:26He taught against personal prophecies, and rightfully so.

00:29:31You know, he would say, yeah, I want us to be open to the Holy Spirit.

00:29:36You know, Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 5, quench not the Holy Spirit, despise not prophesying.

00:29:45So that's happening in the church of the Thessalonians.

00:29:49And Paul said, don't despise prophesying.

00:29:52But Hobart, thankfully, in this regard, you know, I'm always happy to give anybody credit

00:29:59where credit is due.

00:30:01And he did a, let me say this, because then we're going to say the contradictory side here

00:30:06in a moment.

00:30:07But he did a really good job of often reminding the people that prophecy, at least according

00:30:15to what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 14, 3, is for edification, exhortation, and comfort.

00:30:23It's not meant for guidance.

00:30:25And so he would warn his congregation against people giving personal prophecies.

00:30:33He would warn his congregation against people laying hands on other people or his congregation

00:30:40having hands laid on them by other people, and then some personal prophecy given, because

00:30:47that personal prophecy is always, again, in quotation marks, a word from the Lord.

00:30:54Say, brother, sister, the Lord has a word for you.

00:30:59Do you want to receive it?

00:31:01And then if, you know, you raise your hand or you say yes, you know, then you go up to

00:31:06the

00:31:06minister, or if they're not a minister, it may just be somebody in the local church, then

00:31:11they will lay hands on you, and they will give you a personal prophecy.

00:31:17So Hobart taught against it, John, but what's the whole foundation for his ministry?

00:31:22It's a personal prophecy.

00:31:24It's a prophecy in June of 1966 from Anna Schrader saying, I'm calling you to this end

00:31:31time ministry of faith, and you're going to erect a monument of faith among my people.

00:31:38And the people in the denominational church, you're going to pour water on them like a

00:31:47plant starving for moisture in the desert, and they're going to come to life, and they're

00:31:52going to blossom.

00:31:53And, you know, and then she went on with the rest of her prophecy.

00:31:56See, it was a personal prophecy given to Dr. Freeman.

00:32:01And I also think, as I have reflected over the years on how he would tell his conversion

00:32:11story, which happened prior, obviously, to 1966.

00:32:16It happened in 1952.

00:32:19And here's the way he always told his conversion story.

00:32:23He said, I was converted to Christianity on the road home from a nightclub.

00:32:30It was always on the road home from a nightclub, on the road home from a nightclub.

00:32:38And the background to that was he owned a little grocery store, but he also was a freelance

00:32:46photographer, and he took pictures of up-and-coming stars and starlets in nightclubs and wanted to go

00:32:56back then and sell that to them as a publicity shot.

00:33:01So he was hanging out, you know, drinking and smoking with everyone else.

00:33:06He doesn't talk a lot about that, but he admits that was true in the bar and nightclub scene

00:33:11because that was a side gig where he could make some extra money.

00:33:15And so on the way home from a nightclub in Tampa back to St. Petersburg, Florida, where

00:33:22he lived at that time in 1952, he said, you know, he had a conversion experience.

00:33:28When you listen to other messages, you understand a little more of the background that he had

00:33:34taken, there was a downturn in the economy in Florida, in North Florida at that time.

00:33:40Business was not doing so well as it had been previously, and he was really dependent on being

00:33:45able to sell some of these glossy photographs he had taken of these nightclub performers and

00:33:55singers to supplement his income, and he had been over there to Tampa, and no one was willing

00:34:01to purchase anything.

00:34:02So on the road home from Tampa to St. Pete, Florida in 1952, on the road home from a nightclub,

00:34:11he was converted to Christianity.

00:34:14But you know what I realized in listening to 1,157 recorded messages?

00:34:19He never actually told the story of his conversion.

00:34:23It was just always on the road home from a nightclub, on the road home.

00:34:28And so I have postulated, can't prove this, and I may be totally off base, but I have wondered

00:34:35over time, did he not tell that story?

00:34:38Because it reminds all of us of Saul of Tarsus and his conversion on the road to Damascus.

00:34:47I mean, we've all heard that.

00:34:49If you've been to Sunday school, you know that the Apostle Paul, how did the Apostle

00:34:54Paul come to Christ?

00:34:55On the road to Damascus.

00:34:58On the road to Damascus.

00:35:00You know, he had this blinding light experience.

00:35:02So I could be totally off base with this, but I've often wondered, why do you always say,

00:35:11I got saved on the road home from a nightclub, and why don't we know any of the details of

00:35:17it?

00:35:18You know, how did this happen?

00:35:21And he was so prone to share all of the details of everything else.

00:35:26Why is it this one thing?

00:35:28We don't know any of the details.

00:35:30Anyway, that's, I can't prove one thing or the other, but I've often wondered just the

00:35:37terminology with that, with that phrase on the road, it just sounds so similar to Saul

00:35:45of Tarsus is Hobart trying to somehow make a connection.

00:35:50Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started, or how the progression of

00:35:55modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign, charismatic, and other fringe

00:36:01movements into the new apostolic reformation?

00:36:03You can learn this and more on William Branham Historical Research's website,

00:36:09william-branham.org.

00:36:11On the books page of the website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins,

00:36:16Charles Paisley, Stephen Montgomery, John McKinnon, and others, with links to the paper,

00:36:22audio, and digital versions of each book.

00:36:25You can also find resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those

00:36:31movements.

00:36:31If you want to contribute to the cause, you can support the podcast by clicking the

00:36:36Contribute button at the top.

00:36:38And as always, be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version that you're

00:36:43listening to or watching.

00:36:44On behalf of William Branham Historical Research, we want to thank you for your support.

00:36:50I have studied quite a bit of psychology after having left this, and there were certain patterns

00:36:55that I grew up with that I could recognize within the psychology of how all of the language

00:37:02works mechanically.

00:37:04Not many people think about how words work mechanically, but there is a mechanical aspect to it.

00:37:09Whenever this wheel turns in your speech, you can turn these other wheels, and if you're

00:37:13not careful, you can turn somebody else's wheels.

00:37:16And that turning of somebody else's wheels is really where I'm headed with this.

00:37:21Whenever you want somebody to believe something that is outlandish, you tell them the outlandish

00:37:26thing, and you give them a distraction within the same sentence.

00:37:30It's a two-edged, choose-your-own-path-of-questioning type of tool.

00:37:37If you give them something that's kind of outlandish, that is so outlandish that they're thinking about

00:37:44the other thing you said more, because it's less problematic that you said it.

00:37:50The other thing is just so outlandish, you would have never said it in the first place.

00:37:54I've known people who make these boisterous supernatural claims, and they do this.

00:37:58They say, God spoke to me on the way to the ballpark, or, you know, and that's just an

00:38:03example I'll pull out of a hat.

00:38:05What it is, it's a distraction tool.

00:38:09And the bigger problem for me is whenever you think of this movement for what it is, we've

00:38:16examined so many countless ministries that are clearly not ministries of God.

00:38:20You can see some of them leading to hundreds of people dying over their ministries.

00:38:25You can tell that was not a movement of God.

00:38:28But the way that this operated was there was a ladder rain, rain laying on of hands and prophesying.

00:38:34That's how this thing grew.

00:38:36And I got to thinking about it one day.

00:38:39If you were selling fake diamonds on the side of a street, and you open up your coat and say,

00:38:46hey, would you like to come buy some diamonds?

00:38:48You pull out a sack of diamonds, nobody's going to come up and walk to you.

00:38:52But if you have another guy on the street who's interested, this is one of the sales

00:38:57techniques if you're a salesman.

00:38:58If you have a customer, even if it's not a real customer, if that customer is interested,

00:39:03people will give it a second look.

00:39:05Oh, there's somebody else interested.

00:39:06And then they come and, you know, you might snag somebody, but still, you're a couple guys

00:39:11on the street.

00:39:12Think of this.

00:39:14What if you had a thousand people selling fake diamonds?

00:39:19And you had people selling fake diamonds who were approving the diamonds for the other guy,

00:39:25saying, well, that's not a fake diamond.

00:39:27I've inspected it.

00:39:28That's a real thing.

00:39:28And he's a fake himself.

00:39:29He's a fake inspector.

00:39:31You can create, and really what this is, it's organized crime that I'm describing.

00:39:36You can create organized crime like this, and people will fall into that category.

00:39:41Now take a step back and look at what happened during Latter Rain.

00:39:45We've proven hundreds of ministers did not have ministries of God, but they're claiming

00:39:50angels.

00:39:50They're claiming demons.

00:39:52They're claiming going to heaven.

00:39:53They're claiming going to hell.

00:39:54All of them had something, some gimmick, and every single one of them is verifying the

00:39:59other one's ministries.

00:40:01And I have seen, even recently, I've seen two complete scoundrels who you could tell kind

00:40:06of didn't like each other, but verifying each other's ministries, because they know

00:40:10if I lift him up, he's going to lift me up.

00:40:12You know, this thing is, in my opinion, this thing has turned into this weird organized

00:40:17crime mess, but it's organized religious crime, spiritual crime.

00:40:21There is no legal consequence for organized spiritual crime, but there's a long-term consequence

00:40:29as it relates to the destruction of people, and not just destruction within, you know,

00:40:34for your soul.

00:40:35That's a big thing.

00:40:36I'm not even talking about that.

00:40:37I'm just talking about it ruins lives here on earth whenever you do this, and there's

00:40:42no consequence because people are willingly coming to this thing, destroying their spiritual

00:40:47lives, and they could have so much happier lives.

00:40:49For me, I hate to say it, but that's worse than the organized crime of all of the theft of

00:40:56the fake diamonds, right?

00:40:57They're selling a false good, and that false good is their false gods.

00:41:01I've had different people with a polar opposite reaction to who was Hobart Freeman, and I suspend

00:41:16judgment, by the way, so you know right where I am.

00:41:18You know, I suspend judgment.

00:41:20I can't.

00:41:20I don't know.

00:41:21I see good things.

00:41:23I see bad things, and it's just difficult.

00:41:27Oh, it's not difficult.

00:41:28It's impossible to discern another human being's heart, so I suspend judgment, but I've had

00:41:35one person, and I can think of these people.

00:41:38I've had this reaction from lots of people, but I can think of one person in particular

00:41:42who said, you know, I think Dr. Freeman was a genuine Christian who just got off track,

00:41:49and there's a lot that you could say to back that up, someone who was genuinely a believer

00:41:57who just got off track, and I am wired pretty generous in my thoughts, so that's what I tend

00:42:06to think about Dr. Freeman.

00:42:08That's what I want to think.

00:42:09That's what I tend to believe, but I also have this gnawing suspicion, and that's another part

00:42:15of me, but I try to keep him suppressed.

00:42:18I keep that part, I guess, John, I would say suppressed when it's not necessary.

00:42:23If I'm going to listen to somebody teach, my alert is high.

00:42:28I'm on a high alert.

00:42:29If it's someone dead and gone, you know, I don't have, I have nothing to gain, nothing

00:42:34to fear.

00:42:35Then my suspicious level drops pretty low, and I tend to be generous, because I don't

00:42:42want anyone not to be saved and born again.

00:42:45You know, I don't want that to happen.

00:42:47I want to believe the best.

00:42:50But then I have another person that I talked to recently who is an ex-faith assembly person.

00:42:58I mean, they were there.

00:42:59They saw this stuff.

00:43:01They heard this stuff.

00:43:02They witnessed this stuff, and they just, I mean, they are convinced and bold about it.

00:43:10Oh, he was unregenerated.

00:43:12He wasn't saved at all.

00:43:14I think he actually was demon-possessed, that demons possessed him and caused all these things

00:43:20to happen.

00:43:20And, you know, I just go, maybe so, maybe not.

00:43:24That's way beyond my pay grade to be able to say he was demon-possessed or he wasn't demon-possessed.

00:43:30But it is really sad how these things, as you said, it's way worse than financial theft.

00:43:39You're dealing with, because financial theft happens also with this spiritual deprivation

00:43:47and misery that people end up in or go through wondering, where have I been these last five

00:43:54or ten or 40 years of my life listening to these kinds of ministers where everything is

00:44:03just over the top.

00:44:05You know, it has to be, you know, we rebuked the rain because we were going to have a wedding

00:44:10ceremony and the clouds obeyed us and the rain did not come and we were able to perform

00:44:15our wedding ceremony.

00:44:18Everything is over the top.

00:44:20It's miraculous.

00:44:21It's supernatural.

00:44:22It's angelic.

00:44:24And then the rest of us, and I would include me and the us, the rest of us rank and

00:44:31file

00:44:31Christians, just lowly, mundane.

00:44:37And I say that because we don't have any of these stories to tell.

00:44:40Yes, I have an occasional story to tell in my own life.

00:44:44And I have told one of naming, writing someone's name down in a van we were traveling.

00:44:50I had never seen the person.

00:44:51I knew their name.

00:44:53I felt the Holy Spirit had given me their name.

00:44:55I wrote it down.

00:44:56I asked him what his name was in front of two other witnesses.

00:44:59He told me his name.

00:45:01Then I showed him my hand and that was his name.

00:45:03And of course, people listening to this YouTube, watching this, Sean, they can believe it or

00:45:08not believe it.

00:45:08That's neither here nor there.

00:45:10But at least what I am willing to say is I've had those things happen occasionally, but

00:45:16I haven't had them happen like these other guys have.

00:45:18That's for sure.

00:45:19You know, and I think I would have to say I'm glad I haven't because then that makes

00:45:26you want to be something that you're not.

00:45:29There was an occasion where I was standing behind a woman in a line at a teller at a

00:45:37bank.

00:45:37There were several tellers open.

00:45:39There were several lines.

00:45:40I was in one of the lines.

00:45:42There was a woman in front of me and I felt that the Lord had shown me that this woman

00:45:47had a serious heart condition.

00:45:49Most of the time it's men who have heart conditions, not women.

00:45:52And so I tapped her on the shoulder, you know, and here I am somewhat embarrassed.

00:45:58But, you know, if this is true, you know, I want to do what I'm supposed to do.

00:46:02But this is literally happening in a bank.

00:46:04This is not in front of a crowd.

00:46:06This isn't I don't get anything out of it.

00:46:08And I don't make any headlines.

00:46:09I don't make any money.

00:46:11I don't think I've ever told this story in the last 30 or 40 years.

00:46:15And I ask her, does she have a heart condition?

00:46:18And she says, yes, I have a serious heart condition.

00:46:20I say, will you allow me to pray for you?

00:46:23And I prayed for her.

00:46:25I can't prove anything ever happened.

00:46:27I never saw her again.

00:46:30My suspicion, however, John, would be if and when God wants to use his children, it'll probably

00:46:39be in situations and circumstances like that, where you don't make any money, you don't

00:46:44get any headlines, nothing happens, except hopefully some individual was ministered to.

00:46:54So back to Dr. Freeman.

00:46:59I gave him props for teaching against personal prophecy.

00:47:05However, I said his ministry was founded on personal prophecy.

00:47:10And then guess what?

00:47:11I'm sad to say, but in the history of his own ministry post-1966, he broke the rule of his

00:47:21own teaching of no personal prophecy by giving personal prophecies, by giving them when, obviously,

00:47:30when he felt that God wanted him to do it.

00:47:33Well, how was it people were able to sit through his church, John, through all those years of

00:47:40his ministry, knowing Dr. Freeman taught against personal prophecy, yet they somehow have to be

00:47:46able to reconcile in their mind.

00:47:48And now we're back to this world-famous cognitive dissonance that exists in all these people's minds.

00:47:55How is it he's able to preach against that, yet his ministry, on the one hand, is founded

00:48:01on an Anna Schrader personal prophecy.

00:48:04And then on the other hand, I witnessed him up there in front giving personal prophecies

00:48:10to people.

00:48:12So we've played this before, John, but it's a really important one.

00:48:16If we could play it again, it's on a message entitled, Ministering by the Holy Spirit, Ministering

00:48:23by the Holy Spirit, by the Holy Spirit, done in the latter half of 1973.

00:48:28And I would encourage anyone who has interest in Hobart Freeman or who has interest in this

00:48:37personal prophecy type of thing, you would really enjoy listening to this entire, it's probably

00:48:45about a 50-minute long message entitled, Ministering by the Holy Spirit, by Hobart Freeman.

00:48:52But if we could just hear a, I hate to say, it's a four-minute clip from 15 minutes and

00:49:0039

00:49:01seconds to 19 minutes and 39 seconds.

00:49:19I never do select the family to prophesy to, so it has to be the Lord.

00:49:28Praise the Lord.

00:49:33Praise the Lord.

00:49:35Praise the Lord.

00:49:36Praise the Lord.

00:49:38Praise the Lord.

00:49:40Praise the Lord.

00:49:41Praise the Lord.

00:49:43Praise the Lord.

00:49:44For you sent the Lord your God, I have turned in when I was walking in a contrary path.

00:49:54I have taken a whole of thy wounds

00:49:56and I have turned thee unto myself

00:50:01not for thy sake

00:50:03but for my name's sake

00:50:04saith the Lord

00:50:08for yea did not

00:50:11thy mother and thy father

00:50:15thy mother-in-law

00:50:16thy father-in-law claim thee

00:50:20even in the midst of thy darkness

00:50:23and sin and rebellion

00:50:26and I would have thee know tonight

00:50:28saith God that I honored their faith

00:50:33and thou canst stand in eternity

00:50:35and know that it's because of their faith

00:50:38that thou dost stand before me as my servants

00:50:43and now having made known to thee

00:50:46the basis upon which I would speak to thee

00:50:50my son and my daughter

00:50:51I want thee to know that

00:50:54an eternal anointing

00:50:59of love and power

00:51:02and grace and ministry

00:51:04doth rest upon thy shoulders

00:51:07as a mantle of a prophet

00:51:10and as a minister

00:51:12of the word of God

00:51:14I would send thee forth

00:51:16to the Gentiles

00:51:17to the unbelieving

00:51:18as well as to the Jew

00:51:20who would hear from thee

00:51:22words that thou would speak

00:51:24directly by revelation

00:51:26inspiration from heaven

00:51:28and do not hesitate

00:51:31to speak that which I would say

00:51:34through thee

00:51:34but speak in great power

00:51:38and anointing

00:51:39but remember my son

00:51:41and my daughter

00:51:42to speak

00:51:44in power tempered with love

00:51:47for thou wast shown love

00:51:51by me through my son Jesus Christ

00:51:54and in all the rebellion

00:51:57of thine heart

00:51:57I love thee

00:51:58and I waited for thee

00:52:01and when the time was set

00:52:03for turning

00:52:04I turned thee unto myself

00:52:06and I would have thee know

00:52:08that it's all grace and mercy

00:52:10by which thou dost stand tonight

00:52:14and I want thee to spend thy time

00:52:17saith God

00:52:18in my word

00:52:19and as I would have studied

00:52:21and meditate

00:52:23and read my words

00:52:26saith God

00:52:27I will amoint thee

00:52:29with the ability

00:52:31to interpret

00:52:32thou shalt not need

00:52:34the help of man

00:52:36but I will

00:52:38saith God

00:52:39direct thy steps

00:52:40and open thine understanding

00:52:43to receive the deeper truths

00:52:47of my holy scriptures

00:52:49saith God

00:52:52and be faithful

00:52:54unto that

00:52:55which thou hast heard

00:52:56and thou shalt stand

00:52:58and say

00:52:59it is just as God said

00:53:01because it is coming to pass

00:53:02saith the Lord

00:53:04this is the very famous prophecy

00:53:07that Dr. Freeman gave

00:53:09to his own daughter

00:53:11and son-in-law

00:53:12his son-in-law

00:53:13Bruce Kinsey

00:53:15who wrote this famous little book

00:53:17back in Faith Assembly days

00:53:19God Will Save Your Loved Ones

00:53:20there's a picture

00:53:21of Bruce and Kathy

00:53:24Freeman's middle daughter

00:53:25Kathy Freeman

00:53:26Kinsey on the top

00:53:27and then there's a picture

00:53:29of the whole family

00:53:30Dr. Freeman

00:53:30his wife

00:53:31their three daughters

00:53:33their three minister husbands

00:53:35and the five grandchildren

00:53:36that he had at the time

00:53:39and what we just heard

00:53:41in that prophecy

00:53:43I need to put

00:53:44in the context

00:53:45of the fact

00:53:46that

00:53:46this is

00:53:47this is happening

00:53:48in the latter half

00:53:49of 1973

00:53:51Bruce Kinsey

00:53:52his son-in-law

00:53:54married to Kathy

00:53:55who had been

00:53:56an officer

00:53:57in the Marine Corps

00:53:58who had served

00:53:59in the Vietnam War

00:54:00had just been

00:54:02converted to Christianity

00:54:03in the spring

00:54:04of this year

00:54:06he had been a rebel

00:54:08had married

00:54:08the pastor's daughter

00:54:09had pulled Kathy

00:54:10away from the church

00:54:12Freeman and everyone

00:54:13they're believed

00:54:14Kathy's back at church

00:54:15but you know

00:54:16her husband is

00:54:17and everyone's believing

00:54:18for Bruce's salvation

00:54:20Bruce gets saved

00:54:21in a dramatic way

00:54:23and now he is

00:54:26a faithful member

00:54:27of the glory barn

00:54:28he's been converted

00:54:29six months

00:54:30at the time

00:54:31of this prophecy

00:54:32and what I see

00:54:36in Hobart

00:54:37calling him

00:54:38the Lord

00:54:39through Hobart

00:54:40calling him

00:54:40into the ministry

00:54:41of a prophet

00:54:42is this was

00:54:44big business

00:54:45for vindication

00:54:48of Hobart's ministry

00:54:49because his son-in-law

00:54:51who had been a rebel

00:54:52is now converted

00:54:53Hobart

00:54:55is going to prophesy

00:54:56to him

00:54:57in this message

00:54:59calling him

00:55:00to the office

00:55:01of a prophet

00:55:03and

00:55:04I mean

00:55:05what is going on

00:55:07in this

00:55:08young man

00:55:09Bruce Kinsey's

00:55:10mind at this time

00:55:11these were glorious

00:55:13days at faith assembly

00:55:15you know

00:55:16he goes on

00:55:17in this same message

00:55:18to prophesy

00:55:19to

00:55:20another son-in-law

00:55:22Steve Hill

00:55:23who is married

00:55:24to Pam

00:55:25Freeman Hill

00:55:26his oldest daughter

00:55:27and he always

00:55:28prefaces it

00:55:29by saying

00:55:30now I never

00:55:31prophesy

00:55:32to family members

00:55:33so this has to be

00:55:34the Lord

00:55:35that's his way

00:55:36of justifying it

00:55:37I never prophesy

00:55:38so

00:55:39you have so much

00:55:40faith in me

00:55:41the fact that

00:55:43I'm prophesying

00:55:44to

00:55:44two family members

00:55:46it proves

00:55:47it has to be

00:55:48from the Lord

00:55:49we just have

00:55:50serious

00:55:51serious situations

00:55:52here's a man

00:55:53who is against

00:55:54personal prophecy

00:55:55and I will give him

00:55:56that

00:55:56he definitely said

00:55:58prophecy is not

00:56:00for direction

00:56:01in other people's

00:56:02lives

00:56:03that's not

00:56:04the purpose

00:56:05of prophecy

00:56:05prophecy is for

00:56:06edification

00:56:07exhortation

00:56:09and comfort

00:56:10here he is

00:56:12receiving

00:56:13personal prophecy

00:56:14that charted

00:56:16his whole

00:56:17future ministry

00:56:18for him

00:56:18from Anna Schrader

00:56:19and here he is

00:56:21giving personal

00:56:23prophecy

00:56:23to Bruce Kinsey

00:56:25and just

00:56:25let me just say

00:56:26we covered Bruce

00:56:27in earlier podcasts

00:56:29Bruce never was

00:56:30a prophet

00:56:31Bruce ended up

00:56:32being the minister

00:56:34at Faith Assembly

00:56:35who reacted

00:56:37against his

00:56:38father-in-law's

00:56:39teaching

00:56:39rejected it

00:56:40and left

00:56:42Faith Assembly

00:56:42left slash

00:56:44was kicked out

00:56:45of Faith Assembly

00:56:46over this

00:56:47and I just

00:56:51wonder

00:56:52and that's all

00:56:53I can do

00:56:53is wonder

00:56:54has Bruce

00:56:56made the

00:56:57steps in his

00:56:59mind to

00:57:00recognize there's

00:57:01something not

00:57:01right

00:57:02this was

00:57:021973

00:57:03he leaves

00:57:04nine

00:57:0511 years

00:57:07later

00:57:07in 1984

00:57:10as he is

00:57:11making the

00:57:12steps to

00:57:12leave the

00:57:13church

00:57:13what does he

00:57:14do with this

00:57:15prophecy

00:57:16you know

00:57:16or does he

00:57:17think I'm

00:57:18failing God

00:57:19somehow

00:57:19because God

00:57:20had called me

00:57:20to be a

00:57:21minister

00:57:21God had

00:57:22called me

00:57:22to be a

00:57:22prophet

00:57:23and I

00:57:24never

00:57:24realized that

00:57:25in my

00:57:25life

00:57:26look

00:57:26Hobart

00:57:27never realized

00:57:28the prophecies

00:57:29Anna Schrader

00:57:29gave him

00:57:30Bruce never

00:57:32realized the

00:57:32prophecies that

00:57:33Hobart gave

00:57:34him

00:57:35where does this

00:57:36leave these

00:57:37people

00:57:37it just

00:57:38causes people

00:57:39I'm afraid

00:57:40John to

00:57:40question so

00:57:41many things

00:57:42about their

00:57:44own life

00:57:45their own

00:57:46Christian

00:57:46experience

00:57:47their

00:57:48their reading

00:57:49of the Bible

00:57:50the trustworthiness

00:57:51of the Bible

00:57:52I think it

00:57:53causes people

00:57:53to question

00:57:54so many

00:57:55things

00:57:55that if

00:57:56we would

00:57:56cut out

00:57:57all of

00:57:58this

00:57:59supernatural

00:58:00superstitious

00:58:01stuff

00:58:01and just

00:58:03read our

00:58:04Bibles

00:58:04and let our

00:58:05ministers

00:58:06teach

00:58:06scripture

00:58:07to us

00:58:07rather than

00:58:08teach

00:58:08experiences

00:58:09to us

00:58:10people will

00:58:10be on

00:58:11a lot

00:58:12better

00:58:12footing

00:58:13in the

00:58:13end of

00:58:13their

00:58:14experience

00:58:15the

00:58:15interesting

00:58:16part about

00:58:16that is

00:58:17the

00:58:17movement

00:58:18by and

00:58:18large

00:58:19has been

00:58:19trained

00:58:19to look

00:58:20for the

00:58:20experience

00:58:21and if

00:58:21you don't

00:58:22have an

00:58:22experience

00:58:22you're not

00:58:23qualified to

00:58:24minister

00:58:24and that's

00:58:25just

00:58:26it's

00:58:26backwards

00:58:26from what

00:58:27I read

00:58:27in the

00:58:27Bible

00:58:28again

00:58:28I'm not

00:58:29called to

00:58:30be a

00:58:30minister

00:58:30so I

00:58:31can't

00:58:31really

00:58:31talk

00:58:32from my

00:58:32own

00:58:33experience

00:58:33but I

00:58:34can say

00:58:35that from

00:58:35what I've

00:58:36read

00:58:36I see

00:58:37that there

00:58:38are supernatural

00:58:38things written

00:58:39in the Bible

00:58:39and I see

00:58:40that there

00:58:41are people

00:58:41that those

00:58:42supernatural

00:58:42things happen

00:58:43to but I

00:58:44don't see them

00:58:45saying there

00:58:46will come a

00:58:46movement in

00:58:47the last

00:58:47days where

00:58:48these things

00:58:49are running

00:58:49rampant

00:58:50and you're

00:58:50going to

00:58:51find everybody

00:58:51can do it

00:58:52and I

00:58:54mean think

00:58:54of go

00:58:54back to

00:58:55the

00:58:55diamonds

00:58:55if diamonds

00:58:57were so

00:58:57readily available

00:58:59where anybody

00:58:59and everybody

00:59:00could have

00:59:01one it

00:59:02would no

00:59:02longer be a

00:59:02precious stone

00:59:03right that's

00:59:04really the

00:59:05problem here

00:59:05what they're

00:59:06what they're

00:59:06doing is

00:59:07they're presenting

00:59:08themselves all

00:59:09as diamonds

00:59:09and they're

00:59:10they're not

00:59:11really that

00:59:12I'll just

00:59:12I'll say it

00:59:13like that and

00:59:14I'll leave it

00:59:14because I

00:59:14again I'm

00:59:15not I don't

00:59:16have the

00:59:17calling I

00:59:17can't really

00:59:18speak on

00:59:18behalf of

00:59:19somebody who

00:59:19is in a

00:59:20ministry

00:59:20position you

00:59:22have been a

00:59:23minister and

00:59:23you've covered

00:59:24that pretty

00:59:24well I've

00:59:25worked with

00:59:25other people

00:59:26who were

00:59:26and they

00:59:27all tell me

00:59:28the ones who

00:59:29are genuine

00:59:29they all tell

00:59:30me even if I

00:59:31did have an

00:59:32experience that

00:59:33was so fantastic

00:59:34that it was

00:59:36abnormal and

00:59:37out of this

00:59:38world I really

00:59:38wouldn't want to

00:59:39tell everybody

00:59:39because then the

00:59:40people would

00:59:41think that I'm

00:59:41something and

00:59:42I'm nothing

00:59:43that's usually

00:59:43how most of

00:59:44the ministers

00:59:45who are in

00:59:46my opinion

00:59:46the real ones

00:59:47that's usually

00:59:47how they act

00:59:48but the ones

00:59:49that put their

00:59:49chest out and

00:59:50I'm this big

00:59:51guy that's

00:59:52not for me

00:59:53I just I've

00:59:54I've grown to

00:59:55the point where

00:59:55I can't I can't

00:59:56deal with that

00:59:57anymore so

00:59:58thank you so

00:59:59much for doing

00:59:59this yeah me

01:00:00and you both

01:00:01John we've

01:00:01grown to the

01:00:02point that's

01:00:03that's not

01:00:03our flavor

01:00:04well if you've

01:00:05enjoyed our show

01:00:05and you want

01:00:06more information

01:00:06you can check

01:00:07us out on the

01:00:07web you can

01:00:08find us at

01:00:08william-branham.org

01:00:10for more about

01:00:11the dark side of

01:00:12the new apostolic

01:00:12reformation you

01:00:13can read

01:00:13weaponized religion

01:00:14from Christian

01:00:15identity to the

01:00:16NAR available

01:00:17on Amazon

01:00:18Kindle and

01:00:19Audible

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Called to Preach or Called to Perform | Chino Ross | Podcast Episode 649

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