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SportsTranscript
00:00Hawk is in Europe. He'll be back next week. He's missing all the fun, man. Because last week, on Monday,
00:06we had Wes Goldberg on. He hosts Locked On Heat podcast. He's basically everywhere right now. And I recommend you
00:14follow Wes on social media.
00:17But we were talking about Giannis Antetokounmpo and if the vibes were good for him to actually end up here
00:25in Miami. And about, I don't know, 12 hours after we had Wes on, we get the news. Giannis is
00:31here. I want to get your reaction to that, Wes, because I believe I was on Twitter scrolling that night.
00:36What was it? Last Monday at like 1130-ish when we get the Shamsbaum. And I'm looking for your reaction.
00:43I'm looking for a reaction.
00:44It was a late Shamsbaum. So I finally saw your reaction early Tuesday morning. I want to know, A, were
00:51you asleep? And B, what that initial reaction was like when you find out the Miami Heat and Pat Riley
00:59beat out the Boston Celtics?
01:01Okay, so I'm going to break some news to you here because this is something I had not talked about
01:06on Locked On Heat, although I was accused of falling asleep because I did not have that instant reaction. I
01:12did. I fell asleep. I fell asleep.
01:15I fell asleep about 25 minutes before the news broke is my guess. I had my phone on loud. I
01:21fell asleep on the couch waiting for the Giannis bomb to fall. And I woke up about 3, 3.30
01:28in the morning seeing everything. Phone calls from my co-host, David Vermildon, like we got to record and all
01:33these things. And we recorded early the next day. But yeah, I fell asleep. But what crazy news to wake
01:39up to.
01:39Yeah. You know, it's funny because I texted Solana right after it happened. And it's like after midnight on a,
01:46can we just wait till 8 a.m. the next morning? Like, what is the rush? Agreed.
01:50You let everybody go to sleep and then wake up. It's absurd.
01:52As a new dad, I just like the, it just kicked in. I have a 10 month old and I
01:56was like, I just, you just pass out at random times now. That's just what happens.
02:02What does it look like, Wes? What does this look like? Cause we have two very good bigs, but like,
02:08how, how does that work together? What is it? The stretch? How do they, the movement and all that stuff?
02:12And it's something that we have to figure out.
02:14It's something that Spoh has to figure out. It's something that Spoh has to figure out. You are 100%
02:18right. And I'm excited about it. This is physically the greatest tool that Spoh has had since LeBron James in
02:272014, right? Everything that Jimmy Butler was a great player here, but physically he was just different.
02:32Like he wasn't like this crazy physical high-flying specimen, the way that LeBron was back then. And Giannis is
02:37capable of doing now. And so I'm really intrigued to see what Spoh draws up the kind of offense, the
02:43kind of defenses that he could put together. You know, of everybody who is excited about this, all of us
02:49here on this show, every Heat fan, I don't think anybody is more excited than Eric Spolstra, who just has
02:54not had an elite talent like this to use.
02:57And even when he did, he was so early in his coaching career when he had D-Wade, LeBron, and
03:04Chris Bosh. We saw the way that he used those guys and frankly revolutionized NBA offense with that pace and
03:11space group at the time, kind of gave way to what the Golden State Warriors were doing, what eventually the
03:15Houston Rockets are doing, what we see now in the league.
03:18To see this Spoh, as seasoned as he is, and seeing as much as he's seen in the league, now
03:24get a chance to kind of do it all over again with this kind of talent, I think is really
03:29exciting.
03:30Wes Goldberg, he joins us on the Toyota of Hollywood Hotline. By the way, I should mention, you also host
03:35Locked On NBA Daily as well, which I've been listening to and tuned in.
03:38And I highly recommend it because right now, Wes, like there's just so much going on. I mean, before 11
03:44a.m. today, we had a player indicted on federal charges. We had crazy trades across the NBA.
03:52We have a potential LeBron-Anthony Davis reunion with Steph Curry. Before I get to any of that, though, Andrew
03:58Wiggins, he opts in and he gets the contract extension with the Miami Heat for two more seasons after this
04:05one.
04:05A, what do you think of the deal overall for Andrew Wiggins? And B, how does that kind of lay
04:17the foundation for what this team is going to look like moving forward?
04:20Because there was the idea that they'd use Andrew Wiggins and Norman Powell, perhaps, and a sign-and-trade to
04:26go land another big-time player.
04:29Yeah, you're right. And first of all, there is a ton of news, even as we're talking right now. I'm
04:33sure there's news being broken here anyway.
04:36And that's why my voice is not 100% why I'm drinking mud water right now, if you guys can't
04:40tell.
04:40But the Andrew Wiggins thing was the latest thing to break here. And it's so funny. The more I thought,
04:47so initially it's reported.
04:48And I'm like, oh, did he opt out and then sign a contract for less annual money to help the
04:54Heat bring back Norman Powell or whatever it might be?
04:56And then it's clarified that he opted into the $30 million and then he's going to take the two years
05:01at basically an annual value of $17 million two seasons from now and three seasons from now, that third season
05:08being a player option.
05:10So on one hand, I was like, okay, so Wiggins going into this, you can either opt into the $30
05:13million, take the cash, move on. Your Norman Powell problems are not my money problems, right?
05:18I'm going to take my money and I'm going to keep it going. Or he could play ball with the
05:22Heat and try to facilitate some flexibility.
05:24This is a middle ground, isn't it? It's like, hey, let me take my money now, but I'm also going
05:29to help facilitate some flexibility next summer and the summer after that.
05:35And that's the part that I think is really interesting here is because the Heat and Wiggins obviously work together
05:41on this.
05:42We'll give you the initial payday, but in return, you're going to take a little bit less money in the
05:48ensuing two seasons that we tack on to this extension.
05:52So I think that says a few things to me. Number one, it could be that the Heat just don't
05:56want, they don't think it's fair for Wiggins to take the money or they thought maybe Wiggins would just opt
06:00out entirely and they really wanted to bring him back.
06:02And this was the way to negotiate that. Or that maybe they don't necessarily view Norm Powell as necessary to
06:13this roster build anymore.
06:15The way that I think a lot of Heat fans looked at Norm Powell being like, hey, we got to
06:18bring this guy back because of the three-point shooting and the offense that he provides us.
06:21The Heat might just not see it that way. Or they might see it a slightly different way in that
06:25at the end of the day, we don't want to pay a 33-year-old Norm Powell what we're going
06:28to have to pay him no matter what.
06:29Maybe there's an opportunity for us to get younger and cheaper at this position while, you know, manufacturing some of
06:35the same spacing that he was able to provide for us.
06:37So I think they valued Wiggins quite a bit alongside Giannis and Bam. I think he makes a ton of
06:43sense as a three and D guy who does not need the ball.
06:46Shot 41% from three last year, was oftentimes Miami's best perimeter defender. They're going to need that kind of
06:51player.
06:51And that's a perfect kind of player next to Giannis.
06:55And I think they probably have plans for what they can do to replace Norman Powell here.
06:59And what about the three? We know Bam and Giannis is one, obviously. Bam's two.
07:06Wiggins is not a three on a championship team, Wes. This is my opinion. Me and Solana argue all the
07:10time about Wiggs.
07:1215-5 and three, like I'm not impressed by that.
07:15What do we need to find? We got to find a guard. Front court's amazing.
07:19I don't know what the backcourt looks like.
07:21It's an interesting way to frame it there because who is the Knicks third best player, right?
07:27I mean, you could, it was Brunson and Cat and then certain nights it was O.G. and Anobi.
07:31And certainly that was the case in most of the NBA finals.
07:32Other nights it was Mikael Bridges. Other nights it was Josh Hart.
07:35And I think the way you build a championship roster in today's NBA is you have a top two.
07:40We're kind of done with the era of the big three in the NBA.
07:43They don't really work anymore.
07:44You need a top two who are very clear, a clear pecking order.
07:47And then after that, your third guy might not be as good as they used to be during the
07:52big three eras of the NBA, but your three through five, three through six are a little bit better.
08:00Your four through five, four through six are a little bit better than what they used to
08:02be also. So you're looking for depth there. And I think Wiggins, although consistently
08:07night to night is not a number, a number three option. I completely agree with you, but maybe
08:11he doesn't have to be. I think the idea is, well, Wiggins can be some nights and then other
08:14nights, maybe it's Davion going four or seven from three point range. Maybe another night
08:18it's whoever we end up getting at this two guard spot. Maybe, you know, whoever, maybe
08:22it's a big Bobby Portis night for us, you know, on a random Tuesday, you know, you never
08:25know. Um, I, there's, there's a lot of work to be done on this roster. That is absolutely
08:31for sure. But I do think they look at Wiggins as $30 million, probably overpaid $17 million.
08:37And that's a nice deal for a guy like Andrew Wiggins next year. And I always thought this
08:42was going to be the idea of Giannis walking into a turnkey contender. I thought was always
08:46overstated. I don't think, I don't think Giannis looked at it that way. I don't think
08:49he was looking at, he wanted to go to a front office that knew that he felt confident can
08:54construct a roster around him that can compete every single year. And I think this deal that
08:57you just saw Wiggins sign is evidence of the heat's front office having a plan. It's not
09:01necessarily going to be a turnkey contender by the time the season starts in October,
09:05but within the calendar year, they have a lot of tools to get there.
09:09That's, I guess it's a perfect segue to my next question, which would be when you're
09:13looking at who's available and what's out there to fill in the rest of this heat roster
09:17in a perfect world, Wes, who do you see as the best fits?
09:21Well, you gotta, you gotta go get some spacing for sure. Especially if Powell's walking away.
09:25Um, I think Tim Hardaway makes a ton of sense for this group and I would expect there to
09:31be a lot more conversations between those two sides, uh, early on in free agency when
09:35that officially starts. Um, is he a starter? Is he a bench guy? I think obviously you'd
09:40prefer him coming off the bench as a spot starter at times. Um, I think a guy like Anthony Simons
09:45makes a ton of sense for this group. And if you're looking at, Hey, can we get cheaper
09:48and younger at that Norm Powell spot? Simons makes some sense. Knocked down three point shooter.
09:53I've watched that guy shooting an empty gym before. And I'm like that guy, I think he made
09:56a hundred straight threes while I was watching them. That guy could really shoot the ball. Um,
10:01there's a, there's a, uh, you know, I think if you look at other veterans, like Mike Conley
10:05has been mentioned, I think Gabe Vincent, there's a return potentially there. Uh, Chris Middleton
10:09is an interesting option as a, as a, as a Giannis guy. And one other name that I would keep
10:13an eye on
10:14Brooke Lopez currently under contract with the Clippers. He's on a partially guaranteed deal.
10:19And it sounds like they're going to probably walk away from that here, uh, as they try to kind
10:23of turn the page on whatever it is that they're doing. Um, and he could potentially be available.
10:27There's the obvious connection between Brooke Lopez and, and Giannis. Brooke Lopez ain't what
10:31he used to be, but he certainly is still a very, very high level backup who can space the floor
10:36still. And if you're looking at another tool in the toolbox for SPO, I think Brooke Lopez makes a
10:40lot of sense. Yeah. The connection to Giannis makes sense. And you're right. Brooke Lopez starting
10:45for you in 2026, seven, maybe not as enticing, but coming off the bench in a limited role, I think
10:50is
10:51great. You mentioned a couple of guys there, Mike Conley, Gabe Vincent, Chris Middleton. Um, I'm,
10:56I'm intrigued. Let me put it this way. I'm intrigued by any of those names. Uh, the Nnamdi stuff,
11:01you know, it, it kind of, uh, hits the, the, the, the memory bank a little bit. Um, Mike Conley
11:07is an
11:08obvious choice spacing and veteran, and he wants a ring, but would it make sense for the heat to try
11:14to
11:15get younger? You mentioned Anthony Simons. I, I, I, I hope that could be realistic. I just think he's
11:21going to end up getting a little bit more money than Miami can offer him, but would it make sense
11:25for you this first year to go younger, or is it kind of just a situation where the Miami heat
11:31are
11:31going to have to fill out this roster and they're not going to be able to be picky about it?
11:35Well, it's funny. Cause you go like a Mike Conley, what's younger. Cause Mike Conley is going to be
11:3939 when the new season starts. You can get a 34 year old and get younger there. He's a baby.
11:44Um, but, uh, I, I think when you look at the way that they got to fill out the roster,
11:49so they essentially now after Wiggins option, they have about $18 million to spend on four
11:53players, probably four or five players. Um, you can kind of do both, right? You can go young with
11:59some of those spots. You can go old to some of those spots. I think Middleton that would obviously
12:03be going old with one spot. Do you counterbalance that by going younger at another spot? Uh, I think
12:08the sweet spot is probably guys like Tim Hardaway Jr. Who are, you know, early thirties have real
12:14experience, you know, obviously fit a need, a specific need. That's prop. That could be the
12:20way to go on a cost controlled kind of deal, but they can go all these other directions.
12:24The other thing is that they have now they have the three, two way spots and we're already seeing
12:29some churn with that. That's going to, those are going to be major development spots for this group.
12:33Something that they didn't have during the big three era where it just felt like they,
12:35it was just like churning through the Rashard Lewis's of the world all the time at the end
12:39of that roster. The two ways didn't exist back then. Just imagine what they could have done with
12:43some, uh, development projects there. So you'll have those spots, three spots every year specifically
12:48meant for development. Uh, but you also already have, you still have Pella who was not included
12:53in the honest trade. And then you have the second round pick, you know, that they just took,
12:57uh, that he's going to be a young guy that they're going to be able to bring. So you already
13:01have a couple of young guys on the roster. Jovic is still on the roster, still a young guy.
13:04So you already have some youth there. I think it's about finding that balance.
13:08And Wes, I don't, I don't want to be the downer, but are we talking about 26, 27 or realistically
13:15talk about 27, 28 with Giannis because we get Giannis and we're all excited, but now there's so many
13:22moves to make. What are we talking about when we're talking about NBA championship contenders?
13:26We're talking about a top six seed in the Eastern conference this year, which Hey, after four
13:30straight years of the playing tournament, winning one playoff game in three years and missing the
13:33playoffs this past year, that's a lot better. That's a huge improvement. Um, and you're talking
13:37about even in that kind of series, having the best coach and potentially the best player
13:42on the floor in all those series. Like we've seen what Eric's bolster and the heat could
13:47do with Jimmy Butler playing at that level. I don't think anybody in the league in the Eastern
13:52conference is going to face the Miami heat in a playoff setting, but no to your, if we're
13:56really getting down to brass tax, we're talking about probably a year, which is three sort
14:03of, uh, uh, transaction cycles, right? You have this off season, you have the trade deadline
14:06in the next off season. And one thing, again, that I forgot to mention with this Wiggins
14:11contract, the way, because his value is so low, his contract value is so low next year,
14:15they're going to have options as it currently projects to be the full taxpayer, mid-level
14:20exception, non-taxpayer. So a $15 million exception next year and the biannual exception, plus
14:25whatever, whatever other wiggle room that they're going to have, because now that hard
14:29cap that they're operating under now is going to get lifted. So to get away from the nerdy
14:33stuff, in other words, a lot more money to spend next summer than they have this summer.
14:37So all of these things that we're talking about, they can't fit this guy. They can't
14:39fit that guy because X, Y, Z, and this CBA apron constriction thingy, all that goes out
14:44the window next summer. They have a lot more flexibility.
14:47Wes Goldberg. I know you have to go before I let you run though. LeBron James, what happens
14:52there? Your gut feeling because there was a moment on Friday, Thursday, Friday, where
14:57it really felt like there were some legs that the Miami reunion could end up happening. And
15:02I don't think that's totally off the table personally, but now we're seeing that the,
15:07the golden state warriors want to basically make a super team with a bunch of old dudes
15:13and Draymond green reportedly is willing to actually opt out of his player option and take a team
15:18friendly deal to make some wiggle room for, for LeBron. So your, your gut feeling, does that
15:23happen in golden state?
15:25I don't, I don't know what my gut says. I know what my heart says. And my heart says,
15:29please don't do this. Please don't like how, what a lame way to go out for LeBron. Like
15:37it'd be like bird and magic teaming up on the Lakers. Nobody wants to see this. Who wants to see
15:41this? Nobody wants to see this. Um, I would rank it like Lakers still to me, most likely
15:47warriors and then heat, but I still think that he'd have a chance, but it, it, they just,
15:53are they really going to go all in on LeBron with all the money that they would have to give
15:59him
15:59versus, which would be, you know, pretty much a big part of their taxpayer mid-level exception
16:03would be 10, $12 million ish. And then not have a lot of money left over to fill out the
16:07rest of the
16:08roster. Or, um, do they just use all that money to just get as much depth as possible,
16:13which might be the more, uh, the, the better plan there, but who knows, it's really hard to say
16:16no to LeBron. If he comes knocking and says, by the way, where's that key that you were talking
16:20about? Um, but it kind of feels like the warriors are treating LeBron like they're Giannis right now,
16:25doesn't it? Like if they're, if they're trying to move heaven and earth to figure out a way to do
16:29it, then I would just, as we've seen, I kind of give the, the edge to the team. That's a
16:32little bit
16:33more desperate. And in this case, it feels like the warriors are more desperate.
16:36Listen to Wes and David. They do an excellent job at locked on heat. I highly recommend YouTube
16:41anywhere you get your podcasts, right? Wes, I think it's on the odyssey app as well. So, uh,
16:45make sure to check that out and follow Wes Goldberg on Twitter, especially WC Goldberg. Wes,
16:51you got a baby at home and your, your voice is going through it. Uh, but I appreciate you
16:57taking the time, man. Seriously. I know it's a busy day. You got to play through injuries guys. You guys
17:01know this. You got a swing, you got a swing, one of them automatic swings for me or the gate
17:06or the
17:07kid. Get an automatic swing, man. It puts on the bed. Wes, appreciate you, man. Bye guys.
17:16Thanks Wes. Wes Goldberg there. Um, yeah, man, you, uh, Crowder, you, you did a couple of shows
17:22with a baby at home too, man, uh, for, for several years. That's, that's not easy, bro. Not easy.
17:28Man.