- 9 minutes ago
Paul Tenorio, author of The Messi Effect, joins the show to break down the long, multi-year process that led to Lionel Messi ultimately choosing Inter Miami. He explains the challenges of reporting the story, including limited access and how difficult it was to track the negotiations behind the scenes, while crediting Jorge Mas for having the vision and persistence to bring Messi to MLS.
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00:00And we've got a lot of World Cup stuff going on.
00:02It's really cool, messy.
00:04Going to be back here in town to play at Hard Rock Stadium
00:07Friday night, Argentina 3-0 in the tournament so far.
00:12And Dave Hyde told me about this a couple weeks ago.
00:18So I'm going on vacation, stopped by the bookstore in Denver,
00:24and you had said, hey, we got to get this book,
00:27the messy effect, this Paul Tenorio wrote this book.
00:30It's fantastic about the whole story, the impact he's had on the MLS,
00:35going about recruiting Messi and getting him here in South Florida
00:39after not too many years ago winning the World Cup
00:43and everything else that took place.
00:44So I grabbed the book, and it's fantastic knowing Jorge
00:48and Jose Moss a little bit.
00:50And he joins us right now, Paul Tenorio.
00:52Paul, thank you so much, man, for getting up early out in California.
00:56No problem.
00:57Thanks for having me on.
00:58I appreciate it.
00:59Well, I got to tell you, man, I really enjoyed it and enjoyed the read.
01:03And Dave teased me on it and said, hey, man, it's got a lot of great stuff
01:06about because we talked about it and we used to make fun of the Moss brothers.
01:11Like, someday we're going to get messy.
01:13Alon Beckham's going to help us.
01:14And we're going to get messy here.
01:15And I'm going, he just won a World Cup.
01:17He's making a zillion dollars in some of the best teams in the world.
01:20Why in the hell would he want to come to this MLS and here he is and playing out of
01:26this world?
01:27How surprised were you as you went through this whole thing to see how it went about
01:32and getting messy to enter Miami?
01:34I mean, you know what?
01:35You weren't the only one that was surprised.
01:37I even remember, you know, we reported that messy was going, it was likely to announce Miami
01:43the night before he announced that he was going to Miami and kind of got teased about it a little
01:49bit when we reported it.
01:50But in the weeks leading up to that night where we report, I remember I was in a press box
01:56at a Chicago Fire game in Bridgeview, Illinois.
01:59The most thrilling thing that's ever happened in Bridgeview, Illinois was me in that press box
02:03learning messy was coming to MLS.
02:05But in the weeks leading into it, I had a conversation with the source where he told me Miami's going
02:12to sign messy and I didn't believe it, which is why I didn't write it for several weeks.
02:17So it, it was, it was very surprising, you know, the, the reporting, the, the, the likelihood
02:24was that he was going to go back to Barcelona.
02:26And as I wrote in the book, you know, had Barcelona not been such a mess, that's probably where
02:30he would have wound up, but Miami had put in the work.
02:34They had spent years recruiting messy, they'd gone out the secret trip years prior when messy
02:40was still at Barcelona with David Beckham and Jorge Mas, Paul McDonough getting on this
02:44private jet going out, going up the, you know, sneaking in the back way in the hotel and
02:49meeting for him messy in a suite.
02:51And, and I think that shows just how much work went into this, that it wasn't like, okay,
02:57now he's available.
02:58Let's jump on it and try to get him.
02:59And, and Jorge Mas ends up in a suite at, at the world cup final Qatar with the messy
03:04family, watching messy when the world cup, um, it was a, it was a process.
03:09The Moss brothers really believed that they could do it.
03:11They put, they put the effort in, they put the miles in for sure.
03:15And they put, and mostly they, they put their money down and they put a percentage of their
03:19team down to make it happen.
03:21Um, and, and that's how we got messy in Miami.
03:24You know, uh, the second part of this, that's been a shocker.
03:27Um, he has not let up at all.
03:30And for a guy that's made as much money, been successful, I thought it might be part vacation
03:35when he came over here and he is driven to still be great.
03:40Even in now, I think he just turned 39 on June 24th.
03:44Incredible.
03:44Has that surprised you on the level of play that he continues to play at?
03:50And, you know, I haven't been surprised by it, but only because of reporting the book,
03:53you know, there's that scene in the book in the first day, Messi signs the fake contract.
03:57He's all dressed up in a suit and he's there to take the photos of signing a piece of paper.
04:03And afterwards he goes into Chris Henderson's office, the sporting director at the time.
04:07And he sits down and he's with David Beckham and the Moss brothers, Chris Henderson.
04:11And he looks around at the, at the stakeholders of the club and he says, tell me all the trophies
04:15I could win.
04:15You know, that's, that's his mentality all the time, right?
04:19His mentality is I want to win.
04:22I want to compete.
04:23And I think mostly what people maybe discount with Messi is he understands that he is always
04:31competing against his own legacy.
04:34Every game he plays, it doesn't matter.
04:37There's the scene in the book.
04:38He's in the locker room after Inter-Miami gets trounced by Ronaldo's Al-Nasser in Saudi Arabia.
04:43And he, and he lights into the team and he says, we can't have performances like this.
04:49We can't have left, even in a preseason game, because it doesn't matter, right?
04:53Every newspaper around the world says Ronaldo's Al-Nasser beats Messi's Miami six nuts.
04:58So he understands that every result, every game, every performance is put into context in,
05:05in his entirety of his career, in his legacy as the greatest of all time.
05:10And, and that's what we've seen from him in this world cup.
05:12He didn't commit to playing in this tournament.
05:15Why?
05:15Because he wanted to be able to not just play in the tournament, but to be Messi in the
05:20tournament.
05:20Could he still be the featured player that he always has been?
05:24And he, and he's been able to do that, which is incredible, but it speaks to the power of
05:29that mindset that he has.
05:30All right.
05:31We're talking with Paul Tenorio, author of The Messi Effect.
05:34Paul, I'm just curious as, as someone who's written books, the access and, and how easy
05:41or difficult was it to get, and, you know, Messi, getting close to Messi, I don't know how
05:47close or, or people you talk to in his camp, but, but in reporting the book, just talk a
05:53bit, a bit of the process of the reporting of the book.
05:57Oh, it's the hardest thing I've ever done in my life.
05:59That's not even, it's not even close.
06:01I imagine.
06:01No, I absolutely, I can appreciate it.
06:04Yeah.
06:05No doubt about that.
06:06No, it, there is no such thing as getting close to Messi.
06:09You know, that just doesn't exist.
06:11Um, I felt like I wasn't going to need close access to Messi himself because I wanted this
06:16book to be a lot about the, this, the sports business side of things, the business of sports
06:21and what his influence has been on American soccer.
06:24And I felt like I could get in, I could get close enough to the team that proximity to
06:29Messi himself wouldn't be as important.
06:31Um, but even the proximity to the team was quite difficult, you know, inner Miami, you
06:36know, they've, they're, they're not, they're not the most open team in the world.
06:41And I do give a lot of credit to the Moss brothers who did allow me on the inside and
06:46some very critical moments, um, who, who took time to, to sit with me multiple times.
06:51Um, that made, that made the process a lot easier.
06:55And, and also to, you know, the many, many, many, many interviews I set up with players
06:59and people inside the club over the years that helped, um, helped me kind of get on the
07:06inside from all the times that I was around the team.
07:09And I, and I, I, you know, I went around the globe with them to Saudi and Hong Kong and
07:13Japan.
07:13And I, I, I traveled with them throughout that first year of Messi to, to every American
07:18city they went to.
07:18So I was there for everything, but the access was incredibly difficult and, and, and for
07:23sure it shaped the way that the narrative played out.
07:26I had ideas of what this book would look like when I first started it and ideas of what it
07:30was, was going to look like based on access.
07:33Um, but you know, I do, I do give a lot of credit, especially to Jorge Mas, um, because
07:38I think he, he saw some of my vision better than maybe others did.
07:42And he also was willing to, you know, for example, to, to let me in, I, I called him
07:47when, when Miami qualified to get to the knockouts of the club world cup.
07:51And I said, Jorge, this is, this is the moment.
07:53This, this is everything in the book all coming together in one place in one game.
07:57I was covering the gold cup.
07:59I was with the U S team at the time.
08:00I said, listen, I'm willing to fly to Atlanta for the night and the day and the night, if
08:05you let me come down and spend time with you behind the scenes, cause this is everything.
08:08And he said, better get on that jet, get on down here.
08:12So, um, you know, you, you need, you need that to happen for a book like this to work.
08:17So I appreciate, I appreciate what his efforts for sure.
08:19Paul, I'm glad you said that about Jorge Mas, cause you make it clear once he did get
08:24messy and messy at a high level and went back to the league.
08:29And he, he was burning bridges with some of the owners are a little comfortable, a little
08:32scared.
08:33And here's the guy that Jorge Mas got vision or reason he's been so successful.
08:38He and Jose, but, uh, you, you got to talk about that a little bit about jumping in there
08:43going, Hey, you guys want to be big time.
08:45You want to grow this thing.
08:46You want it just to keep our reputation the way it is right now.
08:48We got to get better play.
08:50I loved it.
08:51And, uh, I think we all learned a lot more about Jorge Mas.
08:55Yeah.
08:56I mean, look, he's a disruptor and he, and here's the thing.
08:58He doesn't mind being a disruptor and that's necessary.
09:01You need to have somebody who's willing to be the enemy.
09:05Sometimes the guy that people get pissed off at in, in the board meeting, and that's what
09:10he has been.
09:11He's been the guy that has been willing to push the buttons of the status quo to challenge
09:18the people who have been in charge in major league soccer for a long time, whether it's
09:22the commissioner, Don Garber, whether it's Clark Hunt and the Hunt family, you know,
09:26Horde came in and said, the way you guys are doing things is no longer the right way.
09:31And he's right about that.
09:32And, and I hope I laid that argument out clearly in this book, but, but, you know, he, he's
09:38right about it and he needed to try to galvanize the, the faction of owners who believe the
09:43same way as he did, that they could create the momentum for change.
09:46And Messi was the catalyst, right?
09:48Once he signed Messi, Horde had the room because the commercial influence and impact he had,
09:55that Messi had on major league soccer meant that the owners had to listen to what Horde
09:59had to say.
10:00They, they had to let him in on the committee meetings that were the, that control the way
10:04this league plays out, the product that we see on the field.
10:08And, and I think, you know, the way Horde was raised, the way his father did the same
10:15thing in, in, in South Florida politics and eventually international and international
10:19politics influenced who Horde is and what his personality is and the way he's not afraid
10:26to kind of shake things up.
10:28But yeah, they, the, the league really needed a big personality to be able to accomplish
10:34this.
10:35And, and he doesn't have it over the line yet, right?
10:37The last bit, the most important bit still needs to get done, which is changing the roster
10:41rules.
10:41But Horde is still the most important figure in that room, pushing and pushing and pushing
10:45for change.
10:46And I think it will happen.
10:48You know, it didn't happen in time for this world cup, which is an enormous missed opportunity
10:53for major league soccer, but I think it will happen.
10:56And hopefully once it does, um, we can start talking about the long-term legacy of messy
11:01that goes and extends well beyond when he's done playing in South Florida.
11:06All right.
11:06We're talking with Paul Tenorio, a writer for the athletic and yeah, his story today about
11:14Christian Pulisic and the athletic edging toward being the goat of a U S soccer.
11:20And I'm, you're out with the covering the U S team right now in Santa, they play in Santa
11:25Clara Wednesday night.
11:26And the question that's being asked at least nationally, and as does the U S have a chance
11:32to win this?
11:32And I think we're a little, probably a little premature with the question or I, or do you
11:37believe in miracles type, but, but where are they now in the world stage of soccer?
11:44Yeah, it's a complicated question.
11:46I would say that the U S is trying to prove that it can get from where it kind of
11:51always
11:52has been, which is somewhere in the top 16 to 20 teams in the world and push into that
11:58next tier.
12:00And, and that's what this world cup is all about.
12:03Like that's why they have to beat Bosnia tomorrow night for this, this not to be an enormous
12:07failure, right?
12:08To lose in the round of 32 at home would be an enormous failure, no matter how well they
12:13played in the first two games of this tournament.
12:15And then you're at the round of 16, which is where this U S team, a lot of the time
12:21gets
12:21to the world cup, gets out of the group and is in the round of 16.
12:24This is an expanded format.
12:25So this round of 32 is new.
12:27And, and this is where they end up against the team like the Netherlands and Qatar and
12:31they lose.
12:32So beating a team like Belgium in Seattle, the most likely opponents, Belgium in the
12:36round of 16, that's critical to showing the progress that U S soccer is making, but there's
12:42a lot of work still to be done, you know, and, and, and that's what I want people to realize
12:46that they, if they go by the messy effect, they read the messy effect.
12:49If you want an understanding of how American soccer has grown to where it is right now, the
12:53business, the soccer, the, the, the fans that are there watching the premier
12:56league and watching champions league and where the U S national team is, it still needs to
13:01grow in order to compete on the global stage.
13:04And, and major league soccer plays a big part of that.
13:07They have to increase the ceiling here of the professional league in order for the domestic
13:11player to be able to develop to that higher ceiling before going to Europe.
13:16All of it's linked.
13:17And I would say, I think the U S is still somewhere around the 16th, 17th, 18th, best country in
13:24the world.
13:25And so if they win that game, if they went on Wednesday and they win on July 6th in Seattle
13:30and go to a quarterfinal, it would be an enormous success, but it should be considered the beginning
13:38of something.
13:39We shouldn't be talking about it as they've, you know, they've made it.
13:41They should, they should be saying, okay, we've shown we can now let's do something with
13:47it.
13:48Everyone's got to get a little Hort him Moss in them and say, okay, we got messy.
13:53Now let's do something with it.
13:55Okay.
13:55We, we, we, we, we're in a home world cup.
13:57We pushed even the knockouts.
13:59What, what now?
14:01Let me ask you, uh, speaking of the MLS, how do you look at it right now in the growth
14:06since Messi's been here, uh, for a few years now and, and a little in extension with, uh,
14:11with inner Miami, do you, have you seen the growth that you expected?
14:15I know you mentioned there's still another step to take.
14:18Yeah, no, I haven't seen it.
14:20I mean, that's the sad part is like, it's, we've kind of wasted the first three years of
14:24Bessie and MLS.
14:26Um, the league has in a way stagnated, frankly, um, you know, there, there's been a real push
14:32to sign a bunch of big name players, which is good and important.
14:36Um, you know, the Chicago fire just, just yesterday announced Robert Lewandowski, Miami
14:41is going to sign Casemiro who scored last night in the world cup for Brazil.
14:45You know, these big names are coming that happened in 2015.
14:47Okay.
14:48I was a reporter at the Orlando Sentinel when Kaka signed in Orlando and, you know, NYCSC
14:54signed three big stars and, um, all these Josie Altidore came back to Toronto and Steven
14:59Gerrard was going to the guy.
15:00We've seen big names coming to MLS before the, the, the change has to be increasing the
15:05overall product.
15:06And, and MLS didn't get its rules changed in time.
15:10Now they are flipping the calendar beginning in 2027.
15:14That is an enormous step towards major league soccer, being able to compete better on the
15:19global transfer market.
15:21You know, the biggest market time is the summer window.
15:23MLS hasn't been able to compete in that window.
15:26They'll be able to do that, but they can't really compete until they change the roster
15:29rules.
15:30So if they get those rules changed and I think they will, but maybe not even for 27, which
15:35is, which is insane that I'm saying that now that it might not happen until 28, but let's
15:39say it gets done in 27.
15:41We're talking about by the time Messi leaves MLS, they'll have a new calendar.
15:46They'll have a new competition structure.
15:48So the schedule will look different that they'll, they're going to move to divisions instead
15:51of conferences and they're going to have potentially new roster rules.
15:55It will be a totally new league by the time Messi leaves.
15:58So his influence has been enormous.
16:01We just haven't seen it yet.
16:03And, and, you know, I think everyone's kind of been saying, well, you got Messi in your
16:07league, make the change now while everyone's watching, you have all these new eyeballs,
16:10right?
16:11And MLS just couldn't get it done.
16:13Let me ask you a team you like the most from what you've seen so far, France or somebody
16:18else?
16:19No, I mean, France is the best team in this tournament.
16:21It's, it's, it's insane.
16:22The amount of talent they have you have to expect that they are the favorite in this,
16:27in this thing that we'll see a tough game today against Sweden, but I expect them to
16:32win.
16:32I felt like watching Holland, the Netherlands yesterday, they're one of the only teams I
16:36thought could have matched up well physically and, and the way that they play against France
16:41and then they get knocked out by Morocco.
16:43So, you know, for me, France is the big favorite.
16:46I've got my dark horse playing tonight, Mexico.
16:48I think if Mexico can get through this Ecuador game at home, I think they beat England at
16:53the Azteca, um, in the round of 16 and another major upset.
16:57Um, but for me, yeah, like for, we talk about winners of this tournament.
17:01I think you, the conversation revolves around France and what they've been able to do.
17:05Um, but Hey man, Messi and Argentina are sitting there with a big smile on their face at the
17:10path that they have to a final.
17:12Um, so we can't count them out.
17:13Yeah.
17:14Boy, I'll tell you what, it's going to be going to be fun.
17:16Hey Paul, how's the book doing so far?
17:18I got to tell you, had a great location, man, at the bookstore at the airport is, uh, if
17:23that's going on everywhere, you got to be in good shape.
17:26Uh, glad to hear that.
17:27Um, no, you know what?
17:28I, I, I haven't asked because I just can't onboard the anxiety right now.
17:34That's very honest right there.
17:35I love it.
17:37I appreciate the middle of the world cup.
17:39I'm trying to stay, I'm trying to stay focused on the world cup.
17:42I'm like, I can't on, I just can't take that on right now.
17:45I, I, I wouldn't survive it guys.
17:47I wouldn't, I wouldn't be able to survive right now.
17:49Well, I'm glad you listen.
17:50I wanted to have you on for, for fans for inner Miami and fans down here for the world
17:54cup that might be listening this morning, just to, uh, just to hear, uh, the book.
17:59Cause I thought it was great from the inside ownership to the MLS to, to the workings and
18:05obviously, uh, messy.
18:07And it's, uh, it just got a lot of great stuff in the book about messy for, for a guy,
18:12as
18:12you said, and we know firsthand is very, very private.
18:16There's no question about it, Paul.
18:17Thank you so much, man.
18:18Really appreciate it.
18:20No, I appreciate all the kind words.
18:22Thank you for having me on to talk about the book.
18:24And, uh, I hope you guys, uh, yeah, hopefully I can come back and chat more world cup and
18:28more messy with you guys down the road.
18:29Sounds good.
18:30Paul, thank you so much.
18:31I appreciate it, buddy.
18:32Paul Tenorio joining us this morning to, uh, talk a little bit about world cup and
18:37enter Miami.
18:38And, uh, so you worry about that stuff too, with the book.
18:41Is that all?
18:42Oh yeah.
18:42Yeah.
18:43You're, you're, you're, you're, you're, we sold 10, we sold 10 books so far.
18:46You're up to number three in sports on Amazon.
18:48You know, you, you look at stuff like that.
18:50They, they, they listen, they, it's like a, uh, live, live count out there.
18:56Dave, that would just suck, man.
18:58Oh my God.
18:59That's terrible.
19:00All right.
19:00We got to go to break here.
19:01We'll take a quick break.
19:02We'll be back after this.
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