- 14 hours ago
As the Ram Mandir donation probe intensifies, former General Secretary of the Ram Temple Trust, Champat Rai, has been questioned by the police in connection with the case.
Category
ЁЯЧЮ
NewsTranscript
00:00Good evening, hello and welcome. You're with the news today. This is your primetime destination news,
00:05newsmakers, talking points. Monday night, the big story. Did the rot run much deeper within the Ram
00:11Mandir Trust as the Chandra Chori allegations gather momentum? BHP's international president
00:20Alok Kumar is among my guests tonight. Also, is Punjab's Akaal Thak above the constitution of
00:27the country? That raging debate also. And the truth behind the no voter ID, no passport.
00:33The journalist in the center of the controversy is among my special guests tonight. News without
00:39the noise. Let's get cracking with the nine headlines at nine tonight. The Ram Mandir Chandra Chori
00:46temple probe widens. Ex-General Secretary Champat Rai is questioned. More trust officials to be
00:52grilled next on how were the donations misused. All eight arrested accused sent to 14 days judicial
01:00custody. Amidst the sacrilege, Rao Akaal Thak gives the AAP-led Punjab government one month
01:10to amend the anti-sacrilege law. Sikh MLA's and ministers agree to their demand.
01:17Police gets four-day custody of accused Sia and Chetan in the Lohagarh murder case. Sia and Chetan's
01:26lawyer call the arrest illegal. Police accuse both of conspiracy. 36 years after the rape and murder
01:34of a Kashpiri nurse, Sarla Bhatt. JNK's Sia files a 737-page charge sheet, JKLF chief Yaseen Malik and other
01:42accused
01:43are named.
01:46Dinubananta Puram councillors clashed for the second time in a week. UDF and LDF demand the removal of a BJP
01:52councillor who was arrested on charges of attempt to murder.
01:59Flash floods wreak havoc in Arunachal Pradesh and Assam. Indian army joins the flood rescue operations
02:05where the department predicts more torrential rain in the northeast region.
02:11Europe sweltering under an intense early summer heat wave. Over 1,300 dead across Europe. France
02:16worst hit. Major German cities also see a rise in heat-related illnesses.
02:23India to send an MOS, Ministry of External Affairs and Bihar governor Atta Hasnain to attend
02:29the funeral of former Iranian Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei. The funeral rites are scheduled
02:33to begin on the 4th of July.
02:37Intentions mount again on the Durand line after Pakistan announces fresh strikes on Afghanistan.
02:41Islamabad claims 29 militants killed. Kabul claims civilians have been butchered by Islamabad.
02:55But my top story. All eight arrested, accused in the shocking Ram Mandir donation theft case
03:02have been sent to 14 more days of judicial custody. But the focus is now on when was the trust
03:08first
03:09aware of the donation theft and what did it do? Why was the FI-R filed so late? Several questions
03:17remain
03:18unanswered. As the probe continues, India today has also accessed details of purchases made by the accused
03:24using the funds that carried the faith of thousands of devotees. Take a look at tonight's top story
03:32and then we'll be joined by a senior BHP leader.
03:47The spotlight is now firmly on one of the accused, Lovkush Mishra.
03:54India today has learned that he and his wife purchased a property worth nearly 9 lakh rupees,
04:00allegedly using money siphoned off from Ram Mandir donations.
04:04Ram Mandir donation theft accused Lovkush Mishra, who was salaried of 12,000 to 15,000 per month,
04:12got a valuable property in Ayodhya. 8,80,000. This is the documented value which has been declared
04:21by the government documents on March 2026. This land is registered on the name of Lovkush Mishra wife,
04:31Supriya Mishra. But an even bigger question is now surfacing. Did the Ram Mandir trust know about
04:40the alleged theft well before it became public and chose to remain silent? According to sources,
04:47certain members of the temple management became aware of the alleged theft on the 4th of June.
04:53A day later, on the 5th of June, trust representatives accompanied by police officials
04:58searched the house of accused Ravina Shukla, where nearly 58 lakh rupees was allegedly recovered.
05:05This was all done on Champath Rai's instructions. Between June 5th and June 8th, the remaining amount
05:11was allegedly returned by the accused through bank transfers. Yet it was only on June 7th that allegations
05:17of the donation theft entered the public domain.
05:22What raises even more questions is that the FII was registered only on the 25th of June,
05:28almost three weeks after the trust allegedly first became aware of the theft.
05:34Champath Rai, who stepped down as General Secretary of the Ram Mandir Trust after the controversy
05:38escalated, was questioned by the police today.
05:43But given that Champath Rai also serves as the Vice President of the VHP, the spotlight is
05:48also on the Hindu outfit, which finds itself on the defensive after initially having demanded
05:53that an FII be filed in the case.
05:56After all, as an organization deeply involved in the Ram Temple movement for decades, can
06:02the VHP avoid specific accountability for the management and the oversight of donations?
06:08With Santosh from Ayodhya, Bureau Report, India Today.
06:15Let's raise the big questions right at the top.
06:18The Mandir loot, a massive loss of face for the Vishwa Hindu Parishad.
06:22Can the Vishwa Hindu Parishad distance itself from the actions of Champath Rai, the General Secretary
06:27of the Trust, can the VHP evade direct accountability for the loot?
06:31Some of the questions I want to raise.
06:33Joining me now is Alok Kumar.
06:35He's international, he's president, working president of the VHP International.
06:40Thank you very much for joining us, Alok Kumarji.
06:42I want to cut the chase and ask the big question.
06:46Do you concede that what has happened and the manner in which these very serious allegations
06:51of Chanda, Chori and arrests have been made, the donations to the Ram Mandir Trust being
06:56embezzled?
06:57Isn't this a major embarrassment and dare I say a matter of shame for the Vishwa Hindu Parishad
07:02that led this entire Ram Janma Bhumi campaign?
07:07I do not understand why do you single out the Vishwa Hindu Parishad as an organization.
07:14I am sure that what has happened in Ayodhya is very disgraceful, is very shameful and all
07:24of us, all the Hindus in the world, particularly those 65 crore people who donated funds for
07:30the Ram Janma Bhumi and the Karshevaks and their families, the hurt is deep and hard.
07:40But then, as far as the VHP is concerned, on the day when the Supreme Court delivered its
07:49judgment in favor of Ram Janma Bhumi, I in my press conference had clarified that the job
07:57of the VHP is over.
07:59We shall not construct the temple, we shall not run the temple.
08:03Sir.
08:04And we maintain that discipline, even when the Prime Minister came for the Pran Pratishtha,
08:11even when the President of India came for the program, none of us was on the stage.
08:18Sir.
08:19And therefore, therefore, attempt, thereforeтАж
08:23Sir, I am sorry to intervene.
08:26Are you saying the Vishwa Hindu Parishad has no accountability for the actions of Champat
08:31Rai, the general secretary of the trust that was administering the temple funds, he's
08:37been a long-standing VHP kare karta, he's there in that post because he's from the VHP,
08:42and the fact is that many people of the VHP are still involved with the trust, have been
08:47involved with the Ram Janma movement.
08:49How can you say today, sir, that there is no accountability for the VHP, even though crores
08:54of people donated money because the VHP went around the country asking for donations?
09:01Sir.
09:02At that time, when the struggle was going on, we were leading it.
09:09We accept responsibility for all things that happened till the time of the Supreme Court
09:17judgment.
09:18Sir.
09:19And merely because Champat Raiji is there and he happens to be a BJP of his bearer, it would
09:28be a very, Sir, I would not like to use that harsh, but it would be a very stretched up
09:38argument
09:38to say that because of Champat Rai, the whole of the VHP to be held responsible.
09:46Sir.
09:46Sir.
09:46That is not a correct argument.
09:48Alok Kumar Ji.
09:49Alok Kumar Ji.
09:50You are distancing yourself today from Mr. Champat Rai, even though, as I said, he was deeply
09:55involved with the VHP.
09:56He's there because of you.
10:00I am distancing myself with the actions of Shri Champat Rai in his capacity as the General
10:08Secretary of the Ram Janma Bhumit, Irta Kshetra.
10:11Okay.
10:11You're making a big admission.
10:13You're distancing yourself from the activities of Champat Rai.
10:16But do you concede that the VHP, as you yourself are admitting, has been involved with this
10:22movement from decades?
10:23Therefore, when things go wrong, the VHP must take accountability.
10:27When the temple was being built, all of you were celebrating.
10:31Now you don't want to take accountability.
10:33How can the VHP, sir, with due regard say our work ended with the Supreme Court order.
10:38After that, what is happening is now the responsibility of other outfits, including presumably the government
10:43of the day or the entire, the rest of the outfits of the Sangh Paribar.
10:46You seem to be now living in deniability, sir.
10:51No, I am not putting the responsibility on anybody else.
10:56And as I said, in my press conference, I had clarified our job is over.
11:03It is not the job of the VHP in any part of the country to construct temples or to run
11:08them.
11:09Then the trust would run them.
11:11And therefore, what happens in the trust would be the responsibility of the trust.
11:17And therefore, not only the VHP, any attempt to involve the RSS into it or the government of the day
11:26into it.
11:28But you all appointed the trust members.
11:32Inappropriate amendment to make.
11:35Sir, you all appointed the trust members.
11:37And today, are you only going to tell me the eight people who are arrested are responsible for it.
11:42No one else is going to take any responsibility, no accountability, barring these eight accused,
11:47many of whom are very junior functionaries.
11:50Surely somewhere, sir, with due regard, supervision failed, administration failed.
11:55A buck must stop somewhere.
11:56It's not as if this hasn't been happening.
11:58By all our indications, it's been happening for some time.
12:00Are you going to tell me today the buck only stops with these eight junior level people including some driver
12:06or an assistant?
12:09Never, I did not say that.
12:12And the FIR of the trust does not say that.
12:16The FIR names these eight persons because they have been named in the SIT report.
12:23And thereafter says in column nine and others.
12:28So, it is not limited to eight.
12:31And the FIR calls for a comprehensive investigation on all issues.
12:41Sir.
12:41That is, all the allegations that have been made by anybody against whosoever should beтАж
12:51Let me complete this sentence.
12:52No, no, no, no, no.
12:52No, I'm sorry.
12:53Let me complete this sentence.
12:54No, I'm notтАж
12:55Sir, the FIR is the FIRтАж
12:56Sir, I'mтАж
12:57Sir, sir, sir, sir, just a minute.
12:59IтАж
12:59The reason I'm interrupting, you are mentioning the FIR.
13:03Let'sтАж
13:03Let's tell the chronology.
13:05TheтАж
13:06The reports of this theft have come out in the first week of June.
13:09The FIR is only put out now at the end of June.
13:12Which is the fear is the FIR came too little too late.
13:15I mean astonishingly first an SIT is appointed by the UP government whose ex-officio member is the homeтАж
13:22Is the homeтАж
13:23Is a member of your trust and the home secretary.
13:26AndтАж
13:26And clearly, therefore, sufficient time is given between these thefts coming to public notice and the FIR.
13:33I mean, surely you will admit that there is something wrong in the way this was done.
13:39The lack of supervision.
13:40The lack of maintaining proper records in the temple.
13:43And it's only after it was exposed out of sheer embarrassment that the FIR had to be filed.
13:49And therefore, surely there must be admission that there was a lack of supervision for years that has led to
13:54the situation.
13:54And maybe people thought that they were getting away because no records were being maintained.
13:59Where is the accountability, sir?
14:01I keep maintaining.
14:04In my understandingтАж
14:05Sir.
14:06Things came to the knowledge of the trustees in the first week of June.
14:12Yes.
14:12Yes.
14:13And before rushing anywhere, for the initial two days, they tried to ascertain the facts.
14:22And they did it effectively.
14:25Sir.
14:26But why was no FIR filed?
14:27Then there were two legal options before then.
14:29To file an FIR or to request the government for the formation of an SIT to find out some more
14:37facts.
14:38The Trust requested the Chief Minister of UP to appoint an SIT.
14:44At their request, the SIT was constituted.
14:47And when they came to Ayodhya, Champajji said, I am the General Secretary.
14:53Start your interrogation from me first.
14:57And when the Trust got a copy of the preliminary report, it immediately filed an FIR.
15:06I am not for a moment saying that these eight persons only are responsible.
15:11Okay.
15:12Not for a moment.
15:13That is my argument.
15:14We have asked for a comprehensive investigation which covers everybody, including Champajji,
15:23including Gopalji, including Dr. Anil Mishra.
15:26And whosoever is guilty, he should be tried and punished.
15:31And we would like to happen this within four to five months from now.
15:37Sir, but let's be clear.
15:40The VHP over the years, Alok Kumarji has collected a lot of donations in the name of the Ram Mandir.
15:46I go back to the late 1980s to the Sheila Poojan.
15:48And there also there were questions as to whether there were records being kept by the VHP when public was
15:56making donations to your entire movement.
15:59Should this now not all come under scrutiny?
16:01Because the credibility of your entire movement in using public donations possibly for private gain now comes under scrutiny.
16:10Yes or no, sir?
16:13There is no element of any corruption in the collections that we made a decade or two decades back.
16:23Trying to dig out and asking me, this happened 20 years back.
16:28Now would you like to be scrutinized?
16:31There is no contemporaneous allegation.
16:34There is no allegation in the decade next to that.
16:38And for most of that time, we were ruled by the government of the Congress, the Manmohan Singh government, 2004
16:46to 2014.
16:50And even when the structure was demolished, it was the Congress government.
16:56They could have investigated if anything was wrong.
17:00Anything was not wrong, so no allegations were made.
17:04And the governments of the day, all inimical to Hindutva and Hindutva organizations did not thought it fit to start
17:13any investigations in the absence of any complaints.
17:18Those things are done and over.
17:20You know, given what you are saying, and you are saying it very calmly, do you accept at least that
17:26the credibility of the movement that you have started to build a Ram Mandir?
17:31Now you talk of building more temples, you want Krishna Janma Bhumi, you want Kashi Mathura, all of these movements
17:38to reclaim the temple reclaiming or freeing temple movement.
17:43Do you accept that the credibility of your entire movement has taken a hit and it will take a while
17:49to restore public faith in this entire temple movement of the BHP?
17:55Yes, that is right.
17:57You are accepting that.
17:58The credibility has to be restored and I believe that if two things happen.
18:03One, all the guilty persons are honestly identified, tried, punished expeditiously as I said within 4-5 months.
18:14And two, the trustees set up a credible infrastructure, officers who have commitment and are experienced.
18:26The systems that are infallible and are adhered to, if these two things happen, people find out that guilty persons
18:39have gone to jail and are suffering punishments.
18:44Then, the credibility would be restored to us.
18:47But, you know, let me also point out another fact to you, Alok Kumarji.
18:52In 2020, a private auditor explicitly warned that the Ram Janma Bhumi Trust had a highly unprofessional management.
19:00There were absence of SOPs, weak financial controls, no proper record for jewelry or in-kind donations.
19:07How, therefore, do you justify today that for all these years there was no basic accountability measures used over the
19:15years?
19:16Have you kept registers for all the various offerings that were made to the BHP over the years that have
19:21led now in, you know, that led eventually to the consecration of the Ram Temple?
19:26Can you give today, if you are asked for a complete audit of all the offerings that have been made
19:31to your movement over these 20 years or indeed over the last 4 years?
19:36Your assumption that we are ignoring them is not right. All of these allegations and governments should form part of
19:46the enquiry, investigations.
19:50There are now many people who have been enamical to the temple and were once part of the temple are
19:58offering statements that we went to A or B and reported about it.
20:02So, all these things are to be investigated. And if this has happened, the responsibility shall be fixed socially and
20:14as per the criminal law and the consequences should ensue.
20:20We are not defending anybody.
20:22Sir, you know, but can I really ask you, can this be an independent investigation, given the fact that those
20:27investigating it, including the government officials in Uttar Pradesh, the central government are all linked to your wider sang paribar.
20:34Can those in Delhi or Lucknow really carry out an independent investigation into people associated with the sang paribar who
20:41are allegedly involved in this loot, including possibly BHP functionaries?
20:45You all are all part of the same paribar.
20:48Why should we start with an assumption that the police will not do its duty? Let us see out. You
20:55are watching it. The country is watching it. If the investigation is not honest or true, you will point that
21:04out to the country. The people will find out.
21:07Beginning from a negative mindset that the police will not do its duty is probably very unjust to the police.
21:17I believe that the government and the sangha are also serious about this to reach at the bottom of truth
21:25and the misappropriation of the God's property to be taken seriously.
21:32None of us is trying to influence. None of us is trying to shield anybody.
21:38I'll leave it there. I'll leave it there, Alok Kumarji. You're giving me a guarantee today, no one will be
21:43shielded, not even a BHP functionary tomorrow, if they are found in any way to be involved in this chandachori.
21:49No one will be shielded. Am I correct? I want you to emphasize that once again. No one in the
21:56management of the trust or outside, whoever he may be, will not be shielded.
22:06And despite the propaganda by a section of media, there should not be any witch hunt and there should not
22:16be a selection of some organizations to defame.
22:19We all have a duty to the God and to the truth. You have that duty and I have that
22:26duty.
22:26Sir, you're calling it propaganda. Sir, sir, sir, sir, with due regard, we are doing this interview because there is
22:31a bigger duty.
22:32Surely you realize that you have betrayed the faith or those involved have betrayed the faith of millions of people
22:38who gave their funds.
22:39We are only asking the questions and your organization is under the scanner. This is not some propaganda against the
22:45BHP.
22:46But all organizations, including yours, sir, are not above the law and therefore accountable in some form or the other.
22:51I hope you respect that too, sir.
22:55I would repeat, whichever individual is guilty should be punished.
23:01And until if it is found that the BHP organization is a partner of the crime, we should not be
23:09defeated.
23:11Okay. I'm going to leave it there, Alok Kumarji. You've answered all my questions. I hope.
23:15And I thank you very much for joining me on the show tonight.
23:19We've been asking this question also on social media where we take the best responses.
23:24Ram Mandir scam. Can the BHP avoid accountability?
23:27Jay Prakash writes,
23:29VHP suddenly shocked by Chandachori at Ram Mandir.
23:32The same folks who collected donations for decades now want FIRs against critics.
23:37Opposition is thrilled.
23:38Finally, a scam they can blame on Sang Parivar without mentioning their own temple fund.
23:43History, hypocrisy, Olympic gold medalists all around.
23:47Rajni Rao says,
23:48Accountability lies with the chairman, trustees, secretary, treasurer, general secretary, authorized signatories
23:53and whoever was appointed to oversee operations as per their trust deed.
23:57VHP, BJP, RSS is not the issue.
24:00Why even think of avoiding before an investigation?
24:03And Anwar Hussain says, of course they can.
24:05They've been perfecting the art of selective silence for decades when it comes to collect chanda.
24:10VHP was front and centre.
24:12Now it's stolen.
24:13They've been silent.
24:14Apparently accountability has a religious exemption.
24:17Ram's name was good enough to fundraise.
24:19Strong responses coming in there.
24:22Let's turn from another big story where religion and politics are at centre stage.
24:27Because Punjab's new anti-sacrilege law has come squarely under scrutiny from the Akal Tak,
24:33the highest temporal authority in Sikhism.
24:36And it has brought the Aam Admi Party squarely, government in Punjab squarely under its radar.
24:42The Akal Tak today asked all Sikh, MLAs and ministers to address its objections to the sacrilege law within one
24:50month,
24:50saying certain provisions require reconsideration.
24:54The question is, can Akal Tak dictate to elected legislators?
24:59Take a look at this report.
25:19The battle over Punjab's new anti-sacrilege law has now reached the highest seat of Sikh temporal authority.
25:27In a significant escalation, the Akal Tak has given Punjab's Sikh legislators an ultimatum,
25:34amend the controversial law within one month,
25:36or face the consequences of ignoring the Pant's highest religious body.
25:44In an unprecedented show of religious accountability,
25:48Sikh MLAs and cabinet ministers from across party lines appeared before the Akal Tak in Amritsar.
25:54The message was clear.
25:56The Jagaj Jodh Shri Guru Granth Sahib Sadkar Act 2026 cannot remain in its present form.
26:05The Akal Tak says its objections are not to stricter punishment for sacrilege,
26:10but to the way the law was framed.
26:12It says the Punjab government bypassed Sikh religious institutions while drafting the legislation,
26:18allowed excessive state interference in religious affairs,
26:21and overstepped its authority by defining Sikh religious terminology and law.
26:26Moreover, according to the Sikh clergy,
26:29the state cannot legislate on matters concerning the Guru Granth Sahib Ji without consulting Panthic bodies.
26:38They have made a big decision.
26:41They have made a big decision.
26:43They have made a big decision.
26:44The friends and their friends,
26:45they asked the MLA to the MLA,
26:48one MLA,
26:49one MLA,
26:51one MLA,
26:52I have to study the law.
26:54If they have to be the law,
26:55they will be the law,
26:57they will be the law,
26:58and they will be the law before the SGPC,
27:03foreign
27:07foreign
27:09foreign
27:09foreign
27:37The Akal Takt has now directed Sikh legislators to ensure
27:41its objections are incorporated into the law within a month.
28:11The new anti-sacrilege law criminalizes the desecration or deliberate disrespect of religious
28:17texts and places of worship with special protection for the Guru Granth Sahib Jira.
28:22The offenses are cognizable, non-bailable and non-compoundable.
28:27Punishment ranges from 7 to 20 years in prison, extending to life imprisonment if the act
28:32is intended to disturb religious harmony.
28:34The law also covers sacrilege committed through social media, digital platforms and AI-generated
28:41content.
28:42The standoff now raises a larger constitutional question.
28:47Where does the authority of an elected legislature end?
28:50And where does the moral authority of the Akal Takt begin?
29:01Let's raise the big question.
29:04Are the lawmakers in a state like Punjab second to the seat of Sikh power?
29:08Is the Shri Akal Takt above the constitution?
29:12That's the question I want to raise.
29:14HS Benz, Principal Advisor to President Shirobni Akali Dal, Subbir Singh Badal joining me.
29:19Also joining me is HS Fulka, Senior Advocate, Supreme Court of India.
29:24He's also been an ARP politician in the past.
29:26And Ravinder Singh Robin, Senior Journalist, who's written on this, joins me.
29:30I appreciate all of you joining us.
29:32HS Fulka, let me come to you first.
29:34You're a lawyer as well.
29:35Do you believe that the Akal Takt is above the legislature, that they can decide what
29:41the legislature can do and not do?
29:44We are seeing the sight of MLAs having to go to the Akal Takt.
29:47Last week, it was the chief minister who went before it.
29:50Is the Akal Takt above the Punjab assembly?
29:52Could, for example, tomorrow, Shankaracharya ask Hindu MLAs to come before it?
29:57Or a Muslim imam ask the Muslim MLAs MPs to come before it?
30:07For that purpose, Rajdeep, you first have to understand what has happened.
30:11You see, in 2025, the Punjab government introduced this law.
30:17This is the prevention of the offenses against holy scriptures.
30:21This law.
30:22And this bill was referred to the Select Committee.
30:25In this bill, the holy scriptures like Guru Granth Sahib, Bhagavad Gita, and Quran, and
30:32whosoever committed the sacrilege for them, the punishment would be enhanced.
30:37This bill was referred to the Select Committee.
30:40Now, the Punjab government announced that on 13th of April, we are passing the law for enhancement
30:48of the punishment for the sacrilege.
30:51On 13th April morning, they come out with a law totally, this was dumped, totally with
31:00a new bill.
31:01And in that bill, what they have done, they have, which nobody, today, MLS says, they don't,
31:09they have not even read, they do not even know.
31:12So, and what is the machief in that, that, that bill says, a responsibility of the person
31:19who will keep Guru Granth Sahib at its home.
31:21Now, that is, is it for the government to decide?
31:25What are the responsibilities or is it for the counter to decide?
31:28Number one.
31:28Number two, it says, the, when the Guru Granth Sahib is printed, there has to be a number,
31:36unique number.
31:37A specific register has to be maintained.
31:39It has to be made public and now, is it for the government to decide that how Guru Granth
31:45Sahib is to be printed or is for the culture to decide?
31:48Now, these are, then secondly, and a person who has the Guru Granth Sahib at his home, if
31:54he does not follow the Sekhar Rahat Mariyadh, he will be given five years imprisonment and
32:0010 lakh fine.
32:01Now, is it for the government and the police to decide that who is following the Rahat Mariyadh
32:05that not, now this is the, they totally overstepped their power.
32:11You are saying they entered the religious domain.
32:14You are saying the government of the day in Punjab entered, no, no, I am asking you, let
32:18us assume tomorrow a law is passed by parliament, which affects, which tomorrow some Shankaracharya
32:25believes is against Hindu religion.
32:27Can all the MPs be summoned?
32:29Can all the Hindu MPs be summoned?
32:31I am looking at that.
32:32You are raising a point of the law itself.
32:34No, no, not like this.
32:35Can the Akaal takh dictate to legislators?
32:38Suppose, now, that's what I am telling you, see the parallel of this, if parliament all
32:48of a sudden in a morning put up a bill and how the Gheeta is to be printed, how the
32:54Gheeta
32:54is to be maintained, how the Gheeta is to be respected, obviously, obviously the Shankaracharya
33:04will be entitled to ask the MPs, that whom have you consulted?
33:10This is today the Jathir Ashram, whom have you consulted, whom have you read it, have you
33:17understood the effect of it, have you understood the effect of it?
33:21Why the government is going into the religious matters?
33:25Why the government is trying to dictate the religious matters?
33:30Okay, you make your point.
33:31Why is the government getting into religious matters?
33:34It's not just confined to Sikhism, it's across the country.
33:37This issue has been raised from time to time, but governments have done it with other religions.
33:41And one thing more.
33:42Yes.
33:42Jathir Ashram.
33:43Yes.
33:44Go ahead.
33:47Jathir Ashram has made it very clear that as far as the criminal law is concerned, your
33:52domain, do whatever you want.
33:54As far as the Guru Granth Sahib, the religious and the way.
33:58Now you see, the law says, this law of Pajab says, everybody has to follow the Rahat Maradha
34:05who keeps the Guru Granth Sahib at his home.
34:07Jathir Ashram today mentioned, he says, Sindhi families, they do not follow the total Rahat Maradha
34:14of Sikhs.
34:14Now today we deprive them of keeping the Guru Granth Sahib, because they have been keeping
34:18it for the centuries.
34:20Sir, I have taken your point.
34:21Fulka Ji, I have got your point.
34:24Fulka Ji, I have got your point.
34:26Let H.S.
34:28Benth, H.S.
34:29Benth, this is turning out to be hugely political.
34:31This is an election here in Punjab.
34:33And the general belief is, according to the Amarbi Party government, that the Akaal
34:37Takt is being used to target the Amarbi Party government.
34:41Bhagwat Maan last week was called before it.
34:44He's been now, there's a social boycott against him.
34:48All of this, is the Akaal Takt now once again playing dangerous politics?
34:53No, first of all, Rajdeep, I think you built up a wrong binary constitution versus the Akaal
35:00Takt.
35:00The Akaal Takt, the constitution itself, is nothing but a total sum of the aspirations
35:06of the people, all sections of which, six included.
35:09So whenever you take a decision on the basis of the constitution, you first consult the
35:15stakeholders.
35:16That's a democratic principle.
35:17In this case, the stakeholders of the Sikh community, represented by their elected body.
35:25In fact, most of the people in the country don't know what the SGPC is.
35:29The SGPC is not an autocratic religious organization, it's an elected body, elected by the Sikhs.
35:35So it represents the religious aspirations of the Sikhs.
35:38It's recognized by the constitution of India.
35:41So there's nothing unconstitutional about it to begin with.
35:43And secondly, what happened today was not something, you know, where you see a priest or a religious
35:51figure delivering judgments, you know, with esoteric pomposity.
35:56It was a consultative process.
35:58Now, every community, every stakeholder, every section of society has its own mechanism for
36:05going through this consultative process.
36:07We have the SGPC.
36:08There was a formal agreement between the Prime Minister of India, under Jawaharlal Nehru,
36:16and the representative of the Sikh community, Master Tara Singhji, where it was agreed that
36:21anything concerning the Sikh community, the government will first consult, quote, the stakeholder,
36:27the Sikh community.
36:29Look, that stands violated when you make laws.
36:32It's like it's making laws for the media.
36:35You can make them.
36:37Constitutionally, there's nothing wrong with making laws about the media without taking
36:40the media people on board.
36:42But the democratic spirit demands that everybody who is affected by a law is taken on board before
36:49making the law.
36:50Secondly, what you saw today was, I think, unprecedented in the history of this country.
36:56The legislators or the lawmakers admit that they are making laws without knowing what the
37:02law is, without reading the bill.
37:06That, I think, is unbelievable.
37:08So it's not a cult that versus the Constitution of India.
37:12It is actually Constitution of India itself has provisions affecting the religious sentiments
37:20of the different sections of society, including the Sikhs.
37:23Okay, I take your point.
37:26Harcharan Behz, I've got your point as well.
37:28I want to therefore give a final word to Ravinder Singh Robin.
37:31You've written a piece where you've seemingly suggested that there is a distinction between
37:35the religious power that is invested in bodies like the Akaal Takht and political powers.
37:41And therefore, the political power cannot enter the domain of the religious community.
37:46Do you believe that this is potentially creating a fresh flashpoint?
37:50Or has the Akaal Takht drawn a clear line between religious powers and political powers?
37:58Yeah, thank you, Rajdeep, for taking this issue up.
38:04Specifically, let the people know what is Akaal Takht and what is SGPC and what the government
38:09of Punjab or the other government.
38:11And it cannot be measured in one scale, first of all.
38:15That Charan Behz has already been given a distinction of the institution.
38:20And specifically, I was covering the event in the morning until evening I was there.
38:28And, you know, what was the most soothing was there was de-escalation.
38:33It was not that the assembly won or the other side won or someone debated.
38:38It was who has dis-escalated the tension which was happened because of this bill.
38:45And it has significantly, you know, there were, I found three reasons.
38:51One, Akaal Takht did not, he has not opposed the punishment of the secular legist.
38:57Yes, there were flaw of the law.
38:59Second, the legislators, all of the legislators, those who were there with the bipartisan,
39:04each and every one accepted that the reason of this law is needed.
39:10And third most, which everyone is now talking about, it has exposed the weakness of the legislative.
39:18So, one should understand the story you are talking about.
39:22But, you know, I'm just going to ask you in conclusion.
39:25Is it, you know, people across the country will think this is Akaal Takht dictating terms to legislators.
39:31You don't see it as that.
39:32Very quickly.
39:33Not at all.
39:34That's why you were talking about my story, which was beyond someone's,
39:38what is Akaal Takht, which was published in one of the channels.
39:42And it may be there, but, you know, but that meant was to let two people know what is Akaal
39:49Takht.
39:50And it is not, certainly not.
39:53Religion is altogether different, but you must understand.
39:56You know, in fact, I don't need to tell you to understand the concept of Miri Piri,
40:01of Shri Hargobin Sahib, of Akaal Takht.
40:05So, I don't think, personally and even here, those who, sorry.
40:11Okay, I take your point.
40:13I think all three of you have clarified in a way what otherwise is being seen across the country
40:18as a clear attempt where religion and politics are being mixed.
40:21You're saying that there is a clear separation of powers in a way,
40:24and you have to respect in a way the rights of religious minorities,
40:27and maybe the legislators, in your view, have overreached.
40:31I appreciate, though, all three of you joining us now on this very sensitive issue.
40:35Thank you very much.
40:36Okay, I want to turn from there to an issue which, again, concerns each and every one of us this
40:42time.
40:43Think about this.
40:44One missing name.
40:46Your name is not in the electoral rolls under the SIR exercise.
40:50Guess what?
40:51Next thing, your passport is stalled.
40:54And then there is a bureaucratic maze under which your passport doesn't get renewed
40:58because we don't know in this country anymore what it really takes to be a citizen in India.
41:04Only in this case, the citizen was a former editor of the Kolkata-based newspaper, R. Raj Gopal,
41:10who claimed that his passport renewal has been stuck for over 100 days,
41:14not because of incomplete paperwork,
41:16but because his name was deleted from West Bengal's electoral rolls during the special intensive revision.
41:22The timeline is telling.
41:24Raj Gopal applied to renew his passport on February 27th,
41:28completed biometrics by March 19th.
41:30The police verification began the very next day.
41:33But on 27th March, his name disappeared from the electoral rolls during the SIR exercise.
41:38Fresh documents were sought.
41:40And then by June 17th, the passport office said there is an adverse police report linked to his voter status.
41:47Now, after nearly four months, his next stop isn't a new passport,
41:52but another hearing at the regional passport office on July 17th.
41:56He says he submitted every document sought, lived at the same address for decades,
42:01even received his original passport from that very address.
42:04Raj Gopal is asking questions many citizens would ask.
42:08Why should a passport renewal hinge on a voter ID?
42:11Which law mandates this linkage?
42:13And why is one government agency unable to move until another clears its file?
42:18As Raj Gopal's claims have triggered a political outrage,
42:22Kerala Chief Minister V.D. Satishan has written to his Bengal counterpart Suvendu Adhikari seeking intervention.
42:29And Kolkata police has now responded,
42:31claiming that while the absence of a voter ID card may raise a question,
42:35it is not the definitive document needed for a passport renewal.
42:39The police now claim they will resolve the issue shortly.
42:42But in the meantime, I want to go to Mr. Raj Gopal to present his side of the story.
42:48Listen in.
42:50Joining me now is the man who finds himself at the center of that unwanted controversy.
42:54The former editor of the Kolkata-based Telegraph, R. Raj Gopal joins us.
42:59Appreciate you joining us.
43:01Mr. Raj Gopal, your case has captured the national headlines
43:04because it's become illustrative of what can go wrong for millions of citizens
43:08because of bureaucracy, because of documentation required.
43:12Your name was not on the SIR list, which was made for West Bengal.
43:17And then you found yourself next, your passport not being renewed for more than 100 days
43:23because the police reportedly gave an adverse report.
43:26I mean, make sense of what happened to you.
43:32Yeah, as you said, it's a larger picture
43:34because what it shows is how one policy,
43:37which the Election Commissioner of India told the Supreme Court
43:41that it is being implemented solely for the purpose of inclusion or deletion from the voter list
43:46and it will not be used for any other purpose.
43:48And the Supreme Court also uphold that policy on that assurance.
43:52Immediately after that, outside the court, this is what happened.
43:55They are using it for purposes that was not inted at all.
43:58In my case, it's a passport.
43:59And I've heard of other cases where welfare measures are threatened to be stopped
44:04because your name is removed from the SIR.
44:07But those who haven't appealed, in my case, the appeal is pending.
44:10So what it shows is a policy that is so nebulous, that is so uncertain,
44:15it can be twisted anyway by anyone who is implementing it.
44:20And the citizen is at the complete mercy of it.
44:22And there is no policy clarity.
44:23If you can't have a policy clarity on such a very basic matter, how do you live here?
44:28So basically what happened was that your name was not on the special intensive revision list
44:34that was prepared for the electoral rolls for Bengal
44:36because you could not prove that your name and your late father's name
44:42could not be traced to the 2002 electoral rolls.
44:45Next thing you find is you want to renew your passport to attend your daughter's wedding
44:49and the police gives an adverse verification report.
44:53Did they give any reasons, the Kolkata police, why they were not allowing your passport to be renewed?
44:59Yeah.
45:00In between, there was actually one more stage.
45:03After I could not, it's called mapping.
45:05I could not find my name and my father's name.
45:07There was another stage which is called under adjudication where the election commission has said
45:13that you can submit any of 11 documents they prescribed.
45:16One of them was the matriculation certificate which I gave.
45:19And I think that it was not accepted because the reason has not been given to me.
45:23But based on news reports, I presume something called logical discrepancies were applied,
45:29probably spelling mistake or some date discrepancy.
45:31I don't know yet.
45:32Some mistake or mismatch between my matriculation certificate which was made way back in 1983
45:38and the current documents, they must have been a mismatch.
45:41They have been told.
45:41That is why I have been kept out of it.
45:43And on the police side, yeah, this is precisely a problem.
45:46When the officer told me that we cannot, we will not give police verification
45:52until your name is restored in the voters list,
45:54I told him because my appeal is pending, but so are 77, 27 lakh.
45:59Now I say it's 34 lakh appeals.
46:01And nobody, there are only 19 tribunals.
46:03Nobody knows when this appeal, my appeal, it's like a lottery, like a shot in the dark.
46:07It can happen tomorrow, it can happen two years down late.
46:10Then the police, that is most crucial.
46:12I ask the police, can you show me a government order or a memo
46:14that says that on the basis of which you are saying that SIR needs to be there
46:19for police verification to clear it.
46:20This is where the stonewalling began.
46:22The police simply refused to answer.
46:23They will not answer.
46:24They say, it's a very gigantic stonewall.
46:27They say, we cannot tell you and this is our rule.
46:30So it's like a kind of take it or leave it kind of ultimatum.
46:34So you were under logical discrepancies along with 27 lakh other people in West Bengal who could not vote.
46:40The police in March, April, when you apply for a passport renewal
46:45because your daughter's wedding is on April 17, does not give you your renewal of passport.
46:50Could you have done the Tatkal route?
46:52Why didn't you do the Tatkal route and fast track your passport?
46:56Yeah, see, here there is a fundamental problem.
46:58There are some personal issues involved also.
47:00See, you know that for Tatkal you have to pay more money, no?
47:05And here I have to bring an unfortunate side of journalism in India.
47:09I lost my job when I was 56 years old.
47:13And since then, I haven't earned a single penny.
47:16Of course, I have seen it.
47:17But why should I blow up my savings on something like a Tatkal passport, which costs double the money?
47:22Why should I do that?
47:23I don't understand that.
47:26And also this wedding thing, I just passed it mentioning.
47:29It was not because of, I don't think there was any deliberate attempt to block me from going to my
47:33daughter's wedding.
47:34That is just a coincidence that happened.
47:36And even if the passport had been there, I may not have gone.
47:39That is my decision.
47:40So, the wedding was not, I think I just mentioned one wedding passing.
47:44It was an important milestone during this process that coincided.
47:48So, what you are basically saying is that the election commission goes to the Supreme Court and says whether your
47:54name is not on the SIR will not determine your citizenship.
47:59The SIR exercise is not one of citizenship.
48:01It's on voting, but when it comes to passport and passport renewal, that is being linked in a way to
48:08your being excluded from SIR.
48:10And the fact also is the government now says passport is not a badge of citizenship also.
48:15So, it is almost as if we don't even know what documentation will be required tomorrow for someone to renew
48:22his passport.
48:22What I can tell you the good news is after we've highlighted your story, the Kolkata police has said they
48:29will act immediately.
48:31This follows the Kerala chief minister writing to the West Bengal chief minister.
48:35But you are obviously privileged.
48:37At least your case has been highlighted.
48:39Think of all the other anonymous Indians whose case doesn't get highlighted because they are not in the public eye.
48:44Yeah, so, exactly.
48:45So, the solution is not to give me a passport or reject it because I am not in a hurry
48:49to go anywhere now.
48:50So, the point is there should be policy clarity.
48:53The government or either the judiciary or the executive or the legislator, there should be clarity whether SIR data can
48:59be used for the state of purpose or it can be expanded.
49:02That is the crux of the matter.
49:04Unless there is policy clarity whether I get a passport or X get a passport or Y get a passport,
49:11that is just an immediate individual issue.
49:14The important thing is we need policy clarity.
49:18And if a government, and you may remember in the pre-2014 days when there was a phrase invented by
49:24journalists called policy paralysis.
49:26Because just because some industrialists were having problems, so much of heat was kicked up toward that.
49:32But here now, because of the policy cloud or policy haze, so many citizens are being affected and nobody is
49:38writing anything about it.
49:39That is also my problem.
49:41I want a quick answer.
49:44Okay, from policy paralysis then, we've reached a stage of policy chaos.
49:49That was an illustrative case which shows what bureaucratic red tapism can do, which is why we thought we should
49:58highlight it.
49:58If it can happen to a newspaper editor, it could happen to anyone else with less clout tomorrow.
50:05Let's take a break.
50:06When we return, we'll turn to our Get Real India story.
50:09A 19-month-old allegedly lost his eyesight after treatment at a government hospital in Madhya Pradesh Sagar district.
50:17The family accuses the hospital of medical negligence.
50:19What's the story?
50:21Get Real India on the other side.
50:25Let's turn to our Get Real India story where a shocking case of medical negligence has emerged from Madhya Pradesh
50:32Sagar district.
50:33A 19-month-old child lost his eyesight after treatment at a government hospital.
50:37What began as a visit for a cold and redness in the eyes has turned into a life-altering tragedy.
50:43The child's condition deteriorated instead of improving after the medication.
50:47The grieving family is demanding accountability and strict action against those responsible.
50:53Take a look.
51:05A shocking case of medical negligence has led to a child losing his eyesight.
51:11In Madhya Pradesh Sagar district, 19-month-old Vinay Vishwakarma was taken to the Banda Civil Hospital for a cold
51:18and redness in the eyes.
51:20The child's father has said that after examining the child, the doctor on duty administered an eye drop, along with
51:28paracetamol syrup, an injection and other medications.
51:32But instead of recovering, the toddler's condition worsened over the next few hours.
51:51Given the child's critical condition, he was immediately referred to the district hospital in Sagar, where doctors advised taking him
51:58to a bigger hospital.
51:59The family then took the child to AIMS, Bhopal.
52:03According to the father, specialists at AIMS informed them that the child had completely lost his eyesight due to incorrect
52:10treatment.
52:11Their grieved family has lodged a complaint at the Banda police station stating that the doctor is guilty of gross
52:18negligence and demanding strict action against the doctor and the responsible staff members.
52:25The chief medical and health officer has constituted a committee to investigate the case.
52:45A visit to a hospital meant to heal has led to a 19-month-old facing a lifetime without sight.
52:51And the family's only hope now is accountability and justice.
52:56With Himanshu Purohit and Ravi Shpal, Bureau Report, India Today.
53:02Get Real India story.
53:04We hope the child recovers sooner rather than later.
53:07Let's turn to our good news today story.
53:09Now for every student who believes one exam can define an entire future, here's a story that proves otherwise.
53:15Four years ago, Sanket Kumar from Meret misqualifying for the JEE Advance by just two marks.
53:21Instead of giving up, he chose determination over disappointment.
53:25Through self-study and persistence, he not only secured admission to one of the country's premier space institutes,
53:31but now has been selected as a scientist at ISRO.
53:35It's our good news today story.
53:40Missing JEE Advance by just two marks would have shattered the dreams of many.
53:47But for Meret's Sanket Kumar, it became the motivation to work even harder.
54:15His perseverance paid off.
54:18In 2022, Sanket cracked both JEE Main and JEE Advance
54:24and secured admission to the Indian Institute of Space Science and Technology
54:29where he pursued aerospace engineering.
54:57Qualifying directly for the interview based on his academic performance,
55:01Sanket impressed the ISRO panel with his technical knowledge and has now been selected as a scientist engineer.
55:08He will be posted to ISRO's propulsion complex in Mahendragiri
55:12where rocket systems undergo critical testing before launch.
55:16His family says his journey is proof that one setback does not define success.
55:23The child has been a task to reach the same path of the years.
55:28The second step of the year is the relevant path of the night.
55:29For the whole country and the whole country, it's a very important path for the whole country.
55:33Today, I feel very proud of this.
55:35Because we have a dream for the parents of our children.
55:39We have a dream for our children.
55:39That my child will be successful and will be able to work with a reputed post on the way.
56:02From missing J.E. advance by just two marks to earning a place at ISRO, Sanket Kumar's
56:09story is a reminder that perseverance can sometimes achieve what talent alone cannot.
56:16Bureau Report, India Today.
56:20And we wish the young man all success.
56:23Okay, let me end with the image of the day and it is an unfortunate one.
56:27Relentless monsoon rain has now unleashed widespread devastation across the northeast.
56:32Flash floods, landslides disrupting normal life in Assam and Arunachal Pradesh.
56:37In Assam, incessant rainfall coupled with a sudden surge in the Dikari River has inundated
56:42large areas, left more than 15 people stranded on a riverine island.
56:46The raging floodwaters even washed away a 300-meter-long bridge over the Kemi River.
56:51The situation equally grim in Arunachal Pradesh.
56:54Torrential rain, cloudbursts have caused severe flooding across several districts.
56:58Seven districts along the India-China border have been cut off after key roads were blocked
57:03or damaged. The relentless rain has even led to a massive landslide in Lower Siyang District.
57:09Residents have been advised to remain on high alert as restoration efforts continue.
57:13Our thoughts with the people of Arunachal and Assam tonight.
57:16You stay well, stay safe. Good night. Shubratri.
57:20Jai Hind.
57:20Namaskar.
Comments