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00:20Hello and welcome to all of those who've just joined us.
00:23So our previous speaker, Bertrand Picard, has spent his life pushing boundaries and proving that ideas that seemed impossible are
00:32actually possible.
00:33Space is going through a very similar transformation today.
00:37Now new players are emerging, new business models are taking shape amid a very shifting and volatile geopolitical landscape.
00:45We're going to look at how Europe intends to position itself as in what many see as the next great
00:52technological frontier.
00:54To discuss this, I'm delighted to welcome Nathalie Tangeau from the European Space Agency,
00:59Johan Leroy, CEO of MySpace and Sandro Pereira of ExoBiosphere.
01:04Please give them a warm welcome.
01:28Thank you for being with us here at Viva Tech and a very warm welcome to the three of you.
01:35I'm going to start straight with you, Nathalie.
01:38Bertrand Picard was talking all about exploration, about how he's been pushing boundaries.
01:43But when we talk about space today, we're also talking about security, competitiveness, geopolitical influence, especially in this day and
01:53age.
01:53You've been involved in European space policy for more than 20 years.
01:58Space feels much closer to our everyday lives today.
02:02I think everyone in this room here realizes how much what's happening up there has an influence on our everyday
02:10lives, even than five years ago.
02:12So what's behind this shift, would you say?
02:16So, first of all, next year we will celebrate 70 years since Sputnik.
02:24So it was quite a long adventure.
02:26And you could intuitively think that things have really much changed.
02:33But if you look at what it was about during the Cold War, it was about military infrastructure.
02:38It was about ideological stage.
02:41It was about symbolic battlefield and about legal laboratory.
02:46Today we still have this.
02:48What is very different today is the actors have changed.
02:53It's no longer the Russian against the Americans.
02:56It's more the Chinese competing with the Americans.
03:00And you have a lot of new actors, like Europe, of course, but also the Indians, also the Japanese.
03:08So you have emerging actors when we talk about states, but you also have emerging actors from the private sector,
03:16what we call the super-empowered individuals.
03:19So this made a big change.
03:24The other big change is the consciousness of the fragility of Earth.
03:30This is something we go far away in space to realize that we need to protect our planet.
03:39So this is very important.
03:43And so protecting the planet.
03:46Indeed, security is very much present today, unfortunately, in a way.
03:52Science is still very relevant, at least in Europe.
03:56And what matters also today is the socioeconomic benefits.
04:01Because when you have to convince, we have 23 member states in the European Space Agency.
04:06When you have to convince a minister to spend billions on space, you have to prove that there are socioeconomic
04:13benefits.
04:14And again, sustainability is also very important today.
04:18You're talking about the 13 member states.
04:20Europe has always relied massively on partnerships, partnerships with all the other players that you mentioned.
04:28Has the nature of those partnerships changed in recent years?
04:34Yes.
04:35What we have to keep in mind in terms of space cooperation is that in order to be considered as
04:44a reliable partner,
04:45you have to be a credible competitor.
04:48And I think you know it by heart.
04:51This is really...
04:53To the point that we created...
04:54Let me just say that again.
04:55To be a reliable partner, you need to be a credible competitor.
04:59I think that's going to be the line.
05:00Otherwise, you will always be considered as a subcontractor of NASA or a subcontractor of anyone.
05:06You really have to be in the critical path of your partner in order...
05:13I'll give you an example.
05:14In Artemis today, we are providing the European Service Module, which is powering basically the mission.
05:22So it's only if you are able to provide these critical assets that you are considered as a reliable partner.
05:30Now, also, if you take ESA, we always try not to be fully aligned with one partner.
05:37For decades, we've been working with the Russians and with the Americans, or vice versa.
05:43And, of course, the situation has changed.
05:46Space diplomacy since 22 is not at all the same.
05:50You can imagine why.
05:52So now we are diversifying our partnership.
05:55This is something very important.
05:57We're working with the Indians.
05:58I'm working, I'm currently negotiating an agreement with Australia, and they are doing the same.
06:05They are saying, okay, we shall not be dependent on one partner.
06:11Absolutely.
06:12And the class of ESA has always been to be as autonomous as possible, but we don't have enough money
06:18to do everything in space.
06:20We do as much as we can, but we need also to partner with others to do more.
06:26And also, because we don't manage all the technology yet, so we need some technological apps as well.
06:35And we're going to be looking at the exact timeline that you've just talked about, 2022.
06:38We're going to be discussing this with you, Johan, right afterwards.
06:41Because, of course, Johan, you are CEO of MySpace.
06:46Maybe I'm going to let you tell the room for those I'm sure most people do know, but just tell
06:50us in a couple of words what MySpace is all about.
06:53You're basically bringing SpaceX technology to Europe, right?
06:56Yes, so this is one way to present things.
07:00So what our mission, to put it in a few words, is to bring to Europe the first reusable launcher.
07:09We were created in 2022, and our mission is to bring that launcher to the launchpad in French Guiana by
07:17the end of 2027,
07:19five years after the company was created.
07:22So tomorrow you'll be launching from the European Space Station in French Guiana.
07:28I mean, I say tomorrow that's...
07:29From the European Space Port, yes.
07:30And what's interesting is that you are using the launchpad that has been transformed,
07:36the launchpad that used to be used to launch the Russian Soyuz rockets.
07:41As Nathalie just said, since 2022, they no longer have been used over there.
07:47So you're actually using that launchpad.
07:49Yes, that's correct.
07:50And this is 100% consistent with our approach, because putting a new launcher on the launchpad in five years
07:58is a very challenging endeavor.
08:00And for this to be feasible, the first thing to do is to not reinvent the wheel.
08:04So the opportunity we had to reuse an existing launchpad, the one that was used for some time to launch
08:11the Soyuz rocket from the European soil,
08:13is a perfect thing for us.
08:16It allows us to save money and to save time as well.
08:19This is what it's all about, right?
08:21Both those conditions, saving money, saving time, reusability, that is the basic condition,
08:26and being able to work fast to get things going.
08:31You just mentioned five years ago, so let's go ten years back.
08:36You're developing this new generation.
08:38Could a company like yours, generation of launchers, could a company like yours have seen life just ten years ago?
08:45Would that have been possible?
08:47I don't think so.
08:49Why is that?
08:51Another condition to succeed is that the entire ecosystem be supportive.
08:59And ten years ago, I think Europe was still a bit naive.
09:06Not everybody was convinced about the fact that sovereign access to space was strategic for Europe.
09:13I believe now that there is a consensus for quite obvious reasons.
09:18And not everybody was convinced ten years ago that European preference to launch at least European institutional missions was a
09:28good idea or a good thing.
09:29I hope, I have the feeling that little by little, the consensus is emerging on this as well.
09:37We were just talking about, well, I mentioned SpaceX, of course, because SpaceX fundamentally changed the rules of the game
09:44completely.
09:45If Europe wants to remain a major space player, and Europe is back in space, especially with Ariane 6, we
09:52launched one just this week, two days ago.
09:53The new 6.4, the new booster version.
09:57What does Europe need to do to build, what does Europe need to build now that doesn't exist yet, that's
10:06not there yet?
10:09There's one thing that Europe needs to see, but before mentioning this, I would like to insist on the fact
10:15that there are things that exist in Europe that makes the project that we are carrying out feasible.
10:22We have, in Europe, the expertise, we have the technology, the skills from a technological standpoint that allows Europe to
10:32solve the famous rocket equation.
10:36What Europe misses is the ability to solve this economic, sorry, this rocket equation at conditions that are viable from
10:46an economic standpoint.
10:47Because there is the famous rocket equation, there is also the economic equation that is at least as complex to
10:54solve as the rocket equation.
10:56So this is what Europe needs to demonstrate.
11:00And I believe there is one other thing that Europe needs to keep to be successful, it's the spirit of
11:06cooperation.
11:08You alluded to this, we need, we cannot do everything on our own in Europe, this is true,
11:14we can even less do everything on our own at country level.
11:19The success, the past successes of Europe are linked to the fact that European countries and European industry players were
11:27able to work together.
11:28This is compatible with the new competition that is emerging in Europe, provided competition does not become confrontation.
11:38And why, can you tell us in a few words why reusability is simply no longer an option for Europe?
11:45So I believe that reusability is just obvious to implement for the future of space transportation for three reasons.
11:57The first one is a cadence increase.
12:00Thanks to reusability, we are able to increase cadence compared to a launcher that would not have that capability.
12:08The second element is that it brings resilience.
12:12Having a reusable launcher gives you the ability to adapt your services to the customer you target,
12:18and so to adapt to market fluctuations.
12:22And the third element that is very important that changes the game with reusability is the environmental performance.
12:31For obvious reasons, when you recover the first stage of the rocket, you do not need to rebuild an entire
12:37new one every time.
12:39And this is good for environment as well.
12:41I think just to give our audience an idea of cadence, we can, let's say, the aim for the Ariane
12:496 rocket is to launch about one a month, approximately, in the next few years.
12:55We're looking at SpaceX at several a week, right?
12:58Yes.
12:59So, yeah, the idea is to really need to ramp up, we need to scale, there's no question about that.
13:07And why are the decisions that are being made today so important for Europe to position us in the next
13:14ten, I would say, or even five years?
13:17Why does it have to happen now?
13:19What's at stake?
13:20It's because we are in an industry with very long cycles, even if those cycles tend to shorten.
13:27How long does it take to build a rocket?
13:29So, to build a rocket, it takes six months to one year, but to develop a rocket, it typically takes
13:37ten years.
13:38We are trying to do this in five years only.
13:42But when I mean that we have long industry cycles, I mean that to recoup the initial investment, you need
13:48to operate your launcher for a certain period of time.
13:52That is typically ten years as well.
13:54And so you need to anticipate.
13:57And two concrete examples I could give is the recoverability of the first stage of the launcher and its environmental
14:05impact.
14:06Those are two elements that are really at the core of the design of the launcher.
14:11And so if you want your launcher to be reusable at economic conditions that are favorable in ten years from
14:20now, if you want your launcher to be the best one from an environmental standpoint, the one that generates the
14:26less environmental impact,
14:28you need to include this right from the beginning at the very early stage of the design.
14:33This is why what we are doing today will have a first-order impact on the situation of Europe in
14:41ten years from now.
14:42Okay.
14:42Thank you so much.
14:43We're going to just move on to our third guest, Sandro.
14:48We've been looking at the big picture.
14:49We've discussed the conditions that Europe needs to remain a major player.
14:54And we're going to speak more about it with you, Nathalie, to remain a major player in the space sector.
14:59We're going to bring that down to a very concrete level with you, with an example of the kinds of
15:03activities that are emerging in orbit.
15:07So they are emerging.
15:10They don't exist yet, but you're working on this with your company, ExoBiosphere.
15:15I'm going to try and say, in my words, what you're doing is basically you're exploring how space can help
15:20accelerate medical research in microgravity.
15:23So you're already collaborating with ESA on certain projects, for example, with the European Space Agency.
15:31Originally, though, you had nothing to do with space because you're a stem cell biologist.
15:36So you spent years studying Parkinson's disease.
15:40How on earth did you end up working in space?
15:43Yes, it's quite interesting.
15:45Actually, I just transitioned to space two years ago, more or less.
15:50So actually, I've always been fascinated by stem cells because they are unique.
15:55They revolutionize definitely the way that we do.
15:58Tell our audience what a stem cell is in simple words.
16:01Okay.
16:01So a stem cell is a cell that we can take from the body of a person and then basically
16:09transform it and make it in a more unmature state.
16:15That then we can differentiate to any cell type in the human body.
16:19So this has huge implications.
16:22So imagine, for example, I'll give you the example of Parkinson's disease, the disease that I was doing.
16:29Previously, we could not really assess the conditions of this disease because we could not just go and go to
16:35the brain of the patient,
16:37take some samples and bring it to the lab to study it.
16:41We cannot do it.
16:42Now with stem cells, we revolutionize this because we can go, we take blood cells from these patients or skin
16:48cells,
16:49transform into stem cells and then basically differentiate into brain tissues that is exactly from that patient.
16:56So the same genetics.
16:57And now we can study it.
16:58But what happens in space that doesn't happen here on earth?
17:01Exactly.
17:01The problem is that we have studied these models.
17:04We've tried to use them for some years now.
17:06But the problem is that models are limited because when we transform them into stem cells,
17:11the aging memory that these cells add from the body, it's kind of erased.
17:15So basically we are now using cells, even if they are coming from an old patient, they are not really
17:21too old.
17:22They are young to study diseases such as Parkinson's.
17:25This is exactly where space is changing because studies from the ISS have shown that the space environment can indeed
17:34compress the timeline of biology.
17:36We can accelerate some biology.
17:38And so this is what we want to do.
17:40We want to take our models, bring them to orbit, unlock them, unlock the biology and the limitations that they
17:47have,
17:48and then accelerate our knowledge and also discover off new medicines.
17:53Because most people, I think probably most people here in this room as well, think of space as a pretty
17:59hostile environment.
18:00Most of us have seen gravity.
18:01Not very nice when you end up having to die in that kind of environment.
18:05No, I'm joking.
18:06But we often hear that astronauts age prematurely.
18:10That's something you always hear about.
18:12They age faster in space.
18:13How can that help us better understand disease here on Earth?
18:17Great question.
18:18I just brought some slides.
18:20If we can start showing them, please.
18:23Okay.
18:25Maybe we can, yeah, go ahead with the slides.
18:27Thanks.
18:27So exactly.
18:28Let that not get too technical.
18:30No, no, no.
18:31Not technical at all.
18:32So basically, just to say that, indeed, just this slide summarizes exactly what you mentioned about, like, the space being
18:38an extreme environment.
18:40Particularly because we have environment, in this environment, we have elements such as microgravity, radiation, and many others that directly
18:47impact on the body of astronauts.
18:49And how does it impact?
18:51What do we see?
18:52We see a decline in many systems of the human body.
18:55This is normal, what happens, for example, during aging.
18:58But the thing is that now, in space, this seems to be compressed.
19:02It's much, much accelerated.
19:04Take, for example, bone loss as osteoporosis.
19:06It goes 10 times faster in space than here on Earth.
19:11We also have alterations in terms of muscle loss.
19:15Cardiovascular disease accumulating in a few months in space.
19:19Which is why they have to work out so much.
19:22Exactly.
19:22When they're in the other...
19:22They have sessions of around 15 hours per week.
19:27So, and for example, our other sounding diseases, such as cancers, we now have evidence that certain types of cancers
19:35grow much faster in space.
19:37For me, neurodegeneration, it's really of my interest.
19:42We have studies showing that proteins that are markers of Parkinson's disease or Alzheimer, that take decades to accumulate here
19:50on Earth.
19:50And our models in space, they accumulate after weeks.
19:53So, we can, obviously, this is very dramatic for astronauts.
19:57And if you want to pursue with our deep space exploration, we have to study these diseases.
20:02We have to put mitigations in place.
20:04But at the same time, we can use it as we turn it on our favor, because we can say
20:10that the laboratory, the space is a ultimate laboratory to compress the timeline of discovery as well.
20:16So, we can basically understand disease faster.
20:20And we hope with this tool, we can make medicines faster as well.
20:25So, Sandra, you're painting it a really compelling picture.
20:29It makes me think, why is this not happening at scale?
20:32Why isn't everyone doing this?
20:34Yes, it's true.
20:36So, let me just, actually, I just brought, if I can, this is just a project from a European group
20:44that's working with us.
20:45It was selected for ESA, BSGN.
20:49Just, these are exactly like companies from Europe.
20:53So, just to show that this is not science fiction, it's actually happening now.
20:58We plan to launch this experience next year.
21:01And it's basically cardiac cells that we will try to make more efficient as a screening tool in space.
21:08Going to your question, sorry.
21:09So, there are two points that I want to raise in these.
21:13First one is access to space that companies like Maya Space is trying to solve.
21:18Second is actually the quality of science that we do in space.
21:24So, we're lacking the infrastructure to deliver a good quality, high quality of science.
21:30On the right panel that you see, this is parodying for drug screening on Earth.
21:36But, so, these pharma companies that we want to engage and take them to space to work with us, they
21:42rely on these systems.
21:43They have to be automated.
21:44They need to be standardized so they can cross-compare results from one experiment with the other experiment.
21:51And they need numbers.
21:53They need thousands of experiments.
21:55We cannot define if a drug is working with a single experiment or two experiments.
21:59We need numbers.
22:00And this is exactly lacking.
22:02If you look at the left side panel, this is the current status of the science that we do on
22:07Earth, on the ISS.
22:10So, most of these experiments are still manual, relying on astronauts, which increasing cost at the same time, some variability.
22:17And the hardware is customized and with low throughput.
22:21And this is exactly what we want to solve with our company.
22:26If you can please just start the video, just brought what we're trying to put together.
22:34Exactly.
22:35So, basically, at ExoSphere, we're trying to solve this gap, technological gap, with a...
22:43Oh, we have sound here.
22:44Sorry.
22:45Maybe we can remove the sound of the video, please.
22:48So, we built a laboratory, a miniaturized laboratory, that basically compresses what we have in the pharma, huge rooms, into
22:58a small payload.
22:59We have means to maintain cells.
23:01And when we're saying complex cells, like brain cells, cancer cells in this system, with media, with the right temperature,
23:09the corporal temperature.
23:11So, and we can give them, like, nice conditions as we have now on Earth.
23:16And how big is that payload that is loaded on...
23:19This is, like, the size of a sweep.
23:21Tiny.
23:21It's tiny.
23:22So, it goes up alongside lots of other payloads.
23:25Exactly.
23:25Yeah.
23:26Exactly.
23:27And, Isa, you're...
23:28Sorry.
23:29You're a space agency.
23:30You are working with ExoBiosphere, for example.
23:33Yes, absolutely.
23:34And if you know, Sophia, who is currently an astronaut in the space station, astronauts are not space tourists.
23:44They are working all day, doing experiments all the time.
23:48So, it's really the Columbus, the European module in the space station, is a laboratory.
23:55We are doing science every day from 6 in the morning to 11 in the evening.
24:01These kinds of experiments.
24:02Absolutely.
24:03Sandra was talking about.
24:04I was mentioning socioeconomic benefits.
24:07This is typically the kind of things we are doing to help society in every domain, like health and others.
24:14And you have some very clear goals at Isa.
24:18Yes.
24:19When it comes to this, right?
24:20Yeah.
24:20You were implying earlier that we have to stay relevant, that Europe has to find its place in this competition.
24:33And the first thing to do is to anticipate, of course, to adapt.
24:38And we adopted a strategy for that, strategy 2040.
24:42And the goal of the strategy are really very relevant in terms of socioeconomic benefits, but also in terms of
24:52what is important for the society today.
24:57Because it is very important to be legitimate.
25:00Because we are paid by public money.
25:03So, it's very important to be legitimate.
25:06And what matters today is, as I mentioned before, protecting the planet and the climate.
25:11Helping to find solutions to mitigate such risk.
25:17Explore and discover.
25:18So, this is who we are.
25:20Where are we from?
25:23Is there life elsewhere?
25:24Is there water on Mars?
25:26Is it, you know, all these things that we need to know in order to better live on our planet,
25:31we need also to know that.
25:32Because, for example, how we can manage climate change if we don't know what happened to Mars, what happened to
25:38other planets in the universe.
25:43And plus, let's say, in order to get money for some space activities that are really not fancy, you need
25:51to develop fancy activities.
25:54And maybe I can mention here, there are some people that are against human space flight, because they think it's
26:02a lot of money.
26:02But this is human space flight that attracts most of the attention of the public.
26:14So, it makes it easy to finance telecoms, to finance navigation, to finance other things.
26:22Which are essential to our everyday lives.
26:24It's inspiring.
26:24It helps also to have more people working in STEM, in science, and this sort of thing.
26:31Then we have, of course, strengthening European autonomy and resilience.
26:36And we use resilience for not talking about defense, because ESA is about peaceful purposes.
26:42We are not doing, we are not military, but today everything is dual in space.
26:47So, resilience is the proper term for that.
26:51Then, boost European growth and competitiveness.
26:54As I said, we have to support the ecosystem.
26:58We have a launcher challenge now to support small launchers, for example.
27:04This is very important.
27:06So, we are putting a lot of tools in place to support the industry, to make it survive also.
27:13So, for the past 50 years, we have been building the European industry.
27:18And now, we are making sure that they can meet the challenge, they can meet the competition.
27:24And the last one is Inspire Europe, again.
27:28So, it's not only the astronauts.
27:30We are doing incredible science.
27:33I don't know if people realize, but the scientific program of ESA is one of the best in the world,
27:40if not the best one, within doing things that people have never done, for example, landing on a comet.
27:48So, we are really, really making good science.
27:53And science remains the backbone of what we are doing.
27:58This is very important.
28:00And today, we are talking a lot about rising the defense spending.
28:06It's absolutely necessary to protect people.
28:09But I hope that we will not be doing only space defense in the years to come.
28:14This is very important to do other things and to keep doing science.
28:18Let's talk about the years to come.
28:20This is my final question to all of you.
28:21And it would be great if I could have my timer back to know how much time we have left.
28:25Imagine we're all sitting here in 2035.
28:30What is, so that's a good, you know, 9, 10 years.
28:33What's the headline that tells you that Europe got it right?
28:37I'd like to ask you, Yuan.
28:39How do we know we got it right?
28:40I would say for five years in a row.
28:43And you're going to have to be quick.
28:45100% of European satellites have been launched by European launchers.
28:51European satellites being launched by European launchers.
28:55Reusable launchers.
28:56Yes.
28:57Obviously.
28:58And also satellites from others launched by European launchers.
29:01Oh yes, not only European satellites, of course.
29:04So, over to you, Nathalie.
29:07What makes you say we've got it right in a decade?
29:12Maybe if we have an astronaut on the moon.
29:15A European astronaut on the moon?
29:17And probably before the decade, hopefully.
29:21And if we manage to explore with robots, Mars as well.
29:27And also, if we remain relevant, if what we are doing still makes sense to the citizen, this is really
29:35key.
29:36We are not just doing technology push.
29:39We really want to address societal needs.
29:43Thank you, Nathalie.
29:44And the final question to you, Sandro.
29:47Let's wrap up in about a minute.
29:48Yes.
29:49So, basically, I would say that we know that we did it right.
29:54For example, in a couple of years, we see that space is a tool that has been routinely integrated in
30:00pharma pipelines and workflows.
30:03We were completely adopted with another layer of information and that drugs that have been accelerated in space are already
30:11saving lives on Earth.
30:13For cancer and other conditions such as the ones that are very problematic for our society with shifting demographics like
30:21aging-related diseases.
30:22So, this will be like the signal that we did it right.
30:28I like your answer.
30:29So, if there is one idea that comes out of what we've been talking about today repeatedly, it's that the
30:35decisions that are being made now are going to shape Europe's future in space in the very next years.
30:43We're going to look at what that future looks like with our next speaker.
30:48It's HĂ©lĂšne Huby from the Exploration Company.
30:51So, stay with us.
30:52And let's give our panelists a very warm round of applause.
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