- 9 hours ago
"As geopolitical tensions rise, defense is becoming a central force shaping Europe’s innovation priorities, capital flows, and industrial strategy. Technologies are increasingly dual-use, and startups, investors, and governments are redefining their roles in a rapidly evolving security landscape.
How is defense reshaping Europe’s innovation model? This session explores how startups and scale-ups are positioning themselves, the role of private capital alongside public funding, and how governments are building stronger ecosystems. At the intersection of security, technology, and finance, the discussion examines what this shift means for sovereignty, competitiveness, and Europe’s technological future."
How is defense reshaping Europe’s innovation model? This session explores how startups and scale-ups are positioning themselves, the role of private capital alongside public funding, and how governments are building stronger ecosystems. At the intersection of security, technology, and finance, the discussion examines what this shift means for sovereignty, competitiveness, and Europe’s technological future."
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04:31Trans lacking the secondIt же
04:38also international affairs, EU affairs at the Ministry.
04:43The purpose why I'm probably here, I'm participating, attending this discussion panel because we
04:52work very hard in order to connect capital with innovations, both private and public
04:58capital and innovations including defense and security innovations.
05:02So I'm looking forward to having this interesting and fruitful conversation.
05:10Why defense?
05:12Why now?
05:13This is a really important question.
05:15This question goes to you, General Adam.
05:19For an audience that is mostly composed of civilian and corporate, why defense is a very
05:27important matter to all of us and why now?
05:31Well, I'm sure there are a couple of ex-servicemen in the audience as well.
05:35But let me tell you that first, defense is a concern to any of us as citizens.
05:40We need to be involved and concerned by defense.
05:45But of course, things have changed recently for reasons I will come back a little bit.
05:51And for reasons we tend to forget, between the 1990s and the early 20s of the 21st century,
06:01we thought that, you know, real war was something remote that will never happen again.
06:08And we would just have to fight wars of choice.
06:13So you can choose the war you're going to fight, and it will be not inside your borders.
06:18It will be some place far away.
06:20And things have changed dramatically in 2022.
06:24And especially in Europe, we all realized that, you know, real war still can happen.
06:31And, of course, the war of the future will be different from the wars of the past.
06:35But certainly, what we called a high-intensity war can happen again in Europe.
06:42And we are not ready for that.
06:44And we have to change many, many things to make sure we are ready when it happens.
06:49Of course, speaking as a former military, you know, our role is to be always very pessimistic.
06:55We have to prepare for the worst scenario.
06:57That's why I'm saying when it will happen, of course.
07:00If you say, if it happens, well, you will never be ready.
07:03So you have to make sure that you are ready when it happens.
07:06And be sure that it will happen, especially if you are not ready.
07:09That's why we are all concerned, of course.
07:11We have to reboot our armies, our way of fighting, our probably tactical thinking as well.
07:19And we have to make sure that we have the proper equipments, that our stockpiles are full,
07:25and that we got all the funding for that, of course.
07:27And plus, technology is advancing.
07:30We have to consider what has to be changed.
07:33The previous panel talked about cyber, of course.
07:36We have to take that into account.
07:37Space is new as well.
07:40But in the other domains, the war has changed a lot as well.
07:43And we are looking at the developments all around us.
07:48And it has a lot to do if we want to make sure that our forces are ready to fight
07:53when it comes to that.
07:56Yeah, getting ready, it's so important.
08:02Adele, you operate assets in space.
08:06Concretely, what do you see today that makes this urgency so important today?
08:14And very concrete.
08:19I mean, I can cite numbers.
08:24From the first satellite ever launched in 58 until 2020, all our humanity did put 2,000 satellites in orbit,
08:34roughly, in 62 years.
08:37In 2021, one year later, all our humanity put 2,000 satellites in orbit.
08:44So, what was done in 62 years was done in one year.
08:47Last year, all our humanity did put 7,000 satellites in orbit.
08:522025, I think.
08:53So, what we saw in the last four years is that, to put it simply, there is action in space.
09:01And space has become a real extension of the territory of sovereign countries.
09:08Satellites of France are an extension of the territory of France.
09:13And what we've seen are unwanted visits.
09:16It was one in 2020, 2018, then two or three that we know of.
09:24And it's almost happening on a weekly basis.
09:28What I don't know, maybe the general knows more than I do, but what I don't know is what are
09:35these visits for?
09:37And what are the capacities of the opponents?
09:44Characterization of threats, we don't know it.
09:46We see a threat, we don't know the characterization of this threat.
09:49So, this is a very concrete reality.
09:51When we started Infinite Orbit, we started it to do service in orbit.
09:56So, we built the technology that allows a satellite to get very close and catch another satellite.
10:04With a use case that is a life extension or, you know, extending life of satellite that was not very
10:10military.
10:11What also concretely happened is that, last year, we've been asked to build capacity to inspect, to survey,
10:21to make sure we have eyes and ears as a sovereign nation to survey what's happening in space.
10:28This is very concrete.
10:29We're building it, we're launching it last year, and two, three years ago, it was not in our plan.
10:35Simply because whatever we have as a nation in orbit is not secure anymore.
10:41And we don't know when, we don't know what.
10:45So, we need to be ready, we need to build for the worst.
10:48And this happened incredibly fast, right?
10:53Yes, like, very, we are surprised every week, every month.
10:59Every week, every month, we see action in space.
11:03We see refueling in space.
11:05We see assets getting very close to other assets.
11:07It was not happening, it was only happening in geo-orbit.
11:10A few months ago, it happened in Leo orbit.
11:12It was happening just one satellite getting close to another satellite.
11:17Last month, we saw four satellites storming on one satellite.
11:21So, every month, we see something new, and we just need to increase the speed, the speed at which we're
11:28doing things.
11:28I think we have technology, we have the capacity.
11:33France, particularly, has been investing in this in, you know, decades.
11:38But we just need to be much, much, much faster.
11:41And we need a lot of capital to be much faster.
11:45Got you.
11:47This is space, but what is happening close to the eastern border?
11:52So, Lithuania sits 30 kilometers away from the Russian border and spends over 5% of its GDP on defense.
12:01Vice-Minister, what does it actually look like to turn that pressure into innovation with drones or optical tech already
12:12used in the battlefields?
12:13And what can a small but fast country do that larger states can't?
12:20Thank you for the question.
12:22So, as it was mentioned before, it's important to understand that in 2022, it was a major shift in understanding
12:31and thinking how the modern war looks like.
12:35And this is the thing that we have to react.
12:37This is the thing that we have to follow up.
12:40It's not only, it's not enough to spend 3, 4, or 5% of our GDP.
12:48It takes time and huge effort, actually, to change priorities within the state, within the country.
12:57To explain to society why we are doing this, that this is not a quick exercise, that this is really
13:03a long-term plan, a long-term strategy to be able to protect your country, to protect your borders.
13:10And in this modern war, everything changed.
13:16And the reality is that this is not the thing to buy equipment, old-fashioned, old-school equipment.
13:26No, the thing is to develop very innovative solutions, very innovative products that will be really useful and capable to
13:41protect us.
13:42Unfortunately, in Europe, we do not have many companies with strong production capabilities.
13:52There are actually a few of them, like Airbus, like GreenMetal, like Saab.
13:59However, they also use a lot of U.S. components.
14:03So the thing, the long-term thing, is to not only strengthen these companies and extend production capabilities,
14:16but also to connect these companies, let's say European champions, with the smaller, very innovative companies, including from Lithuania, including
14:28from Estonia, from other countries,
14:31that really develop very sophisticated products, let's say cyber security, laser, and other very niche areas,
14:41that actually are required to build strong defense mechanism, defense system.
14:50So my message is that there is no shortcut, unfortunately, because this is a very long-term plan.
14:59And specifically in Lithuania, our state defense council, secured between 5% and 5.5% of GDP by 2030.
15:13And I'm pretty sure that this will be extended.
15:17So this is the reality.
15:19This is our strong commitment, not only to our citizens and our society, but also to our partners in the
15:28European Union, in the NATO.
15:31Because now trend is visible that closer you are to Russia, more you spend on defense.
15:40But we are actually one family in Europe.
15:44We are one team.
15:46So that's why we really need EU-level solutions, EU-level actions, not just particular countries' voice and efforts.
15:58So we definitely have to merge our forces.
16:03Thank you very much.
16:05So to build capabilities, we need money.
16:09And now we're going to discuss how money is moving and how money can help.
16:15Defense tech venture capital hit around $50 billion last year, roughly doubled than the year before.
16:24U.S. venture capital was born 60 years ago, tied to dual use, tied to DARPA, tied to semiconductors.
16:33But then defense in the VC world became something funds wouldn't invest in.
16:39But now everything is changing.
16:42Jenny, you are the U.S. investors here.
16:47Walk us through this evolution and tell us honestly what do you think of Europe, how are we doing, and
16:54where are we?
16:56I guess I have to be the American telling everyone what to do and spend more money.
17:03So yes, if you go back to the history of Silicon Valley, this is not a new industry for us.
17:08So in the 50s, essentially innovation in Silicon Valley was funded by the Pentagon.
17:14So 85% of revenue across Silicon Valley at that time was from defense and defense contracts.
17:22I think we all think of Silicon Valley and we think of Steve Jobs and his turtleneck and we think
17:27of the Google founders in their garage.
17:30But the truth is it has a long history.
17:32By the time it got to the 80s, it had really shifted and only about 5% of Silicon Valley
17:38was coming out of the military and defense.
17:41So we've seen the ups and the downs as well.
17:43And so I just want to stress that we've had to rebuild our capabilities as well.
17:48It hasn't just been this kind of constant flow from the 50s.
17:52But as you mentioned, there's a lot of momentum around it.
17:56And in the green room, we were actually talking about how Indrice and Horowitz, one of the largest VCs out
18:02there,
18:02has kind of rebranded defense tech into this thing called American dynamism.
18:07And I think that that has been a really interesting kind of marketing narrative that has helped everyone in the
18:14Valley,
18:15whether you invest in healthcare or defense tech, just get around this idea of American resilience and maybe take some
18:22of the stigma out of it.
18:24And so we've seen a massive amount of funding going to this new concept, American dynamism, as opposed to offensive
18:31defense tech.
18:32So as Americans do, a lot of it is really around the narrative and there is money going into it,
18:38but we have a history of that.
18:41Thank you very much, Jenny.
18:44Vice Minister, from the public side, what makes public money actually useful to a startup beyond a check?
18:52And probably I think it would be very relevant that you share some concrete program or use case in Lithuania,
19:00where public and private money combine to get technology into the field fast.
19:07It's always difficult to take a risk when you work for public sector.
19:12And I'm saying this as a former banker.
19:15We really understand how to take a risk and what risk capital means.
19:22But we have success stories in Lithuania.
19:27Lithuania and when Lithuania invests one euro in risk capital, it brings 11, 12 euro return.
19:40So this is the something, this is the reason why our tech sector is booming.
19:46This is the reason why we have first but very strong unicorns
19:50that are capable to develop the best products and best solutions globally.
19:59But the thing is that I think that we can speed up and we can do better.
20:06And we have to understand better and learn from our US colleagues why risk capital is so important.
20:17Because in many countries, venture capital wouldn't exist without public money, without public support.
20:30So that's why what I'm saying is that we have to ensure sufficient level of risk appetite.
20:39But on another hand side, understanding what we would like to achieve,
20:44what type of products we would like to develop.
20:46So this is the thing, this is why risk capital is top priority.
20:53But at the same time, we are looking for other possible options,
21:00how to mobilize private capital, because this is the issue and this is the issue not only in Lithuania.
21:08And PPP projects are usually not so popular and super expensive, some people can say.
21:16But for long-term projects like military bases, Lithuania use PPP projects,
21:25cooperating with the strong international financial institutions like European Investment Bank
21:30and Nordic Investment Bank.
21:32So this is a good example that PPP also can be a good response and good instrument
21:42to strengthen our defense and security capabilities.
21:48So I think still we have to learn and develop more sophisticated financial instruments.
22:00And again, not only within the country, but on EU level, but also we have to be faster,
22:09because if we do not ensure the right speed, we are not only losing competitive advantage,
22:20we just stay behind.
22:26And I do believe that we can do much more.
22:30You were mentioning sophisticated instruments.
22:34What would be the criteria or parameters of these instruments?
22:41Do you have a... I'm sure you have some ideas.
22:43Yeah.
22:44So first of all, it should ensure easy, fast, safe access to capital.
22:52And in Europe, yes, of course, we cannot compare liquidity, what we have in Europe and the US.
23:01But the thing is that we do not have the right products and services.
23:05That's why it's so important to develop our savings and investment union that will bring not only access to our
23:15businesses,
23:16to citizens, but also will be able...
23:21It will bring new possibilities to mobilize private capital.
23:26We are suffering from this because we do not have the right, the quick and cheap access.
23:33So it's not only about liquidity and how to use existing savings,
23:46but it's more about access using the right instruments on EU level.
23:57Thank you, Vice Minister.
24:00Beside private money, there's also money from buyers.
24:03And General Adam, I thought you could help us solve a complex paradox or question.
24:12Buyers tell startup, come back when you're ready, come back when you're tech, come back when your product is ready.
24:18And suddenly, when buyers need the product, it's not ready.
24:24Nobody's ready because they haven't worked with those companies before.
24:30So how does Europe fix the timing gap between how innovation works and how procurement works?
24:40As you said, it's a difficult question.
24:42I'm not really sure I can answer it.
24:43But in a nutshell, that's what makes the difference between having a lot of money and knowing how to spend
24:50it.
24:50And just like Minister Yanus said, it's not everything to have a lot of money to spend, it's also to
24:56spend it wisely.
24:57And I'm pretty glad to hear that this conversation is all evolving around the speed of delivery,
25:04which is also your questions, of course.
25:06Now, there's another question in your question.
25:09Okay, what Europe are we talking about here?
25:13We are talking a lot about EU, of course, but Europe is not necessarily only the EU.
25:20This is just a side comment.
25:22We have to consider also Norway, Switzerland, the UK, pretty important partners if we come to defence.
25:31Now, how can we collectively?
25:35I think that's something.
25:39As we say, you are quicker if you are alone, you go further if you are with partners.
25:46Now, collectively, we have realised that we need to change something.
25:51The world has changed around us, as I mentioned already.
25:54We have to adapt to this world, and we have to recognise that our procedures were built against a world
26:01that was largely at peace.
26:03And again, the wars we were preparing to fight were completely different than the ones that we need to prepare
26:08to fight now.
26:11So, what has changed is that, okay, the threat level is much higher, but also the delay or the time
26:19we have to prepare is quite short.
26:21So, we have really to insist on that, and I think that's the main change we have to impulse in
26:26our procedures,
26:28realising that the performance of our capabilities and equipment is probably less important than the speed that can be delivered.
26:36So, that goes with your question, and we have to solve that with the smaller companies as well.
26:41And that's why, as you mentioned, I'm trying to help them to understand how the public sector works,
26:48because most of the time, smaller companies don't understand that, it's far too complex.
26:52So, I try to help them in that regard.
26:55But also, we have also to recognise that the state has to change on its side as well, and modify
27:01its procedures.
27:02A good example, well, space is a good example.
27:04Everything is new.
27:05We have to deliver everything in a very short time, because we have nothing, basically.
27:08We start from a blank slate.
27:11And we have to deliver very quickly.
27:13It's complex.
27:14It has to be well thought, because once your satellite is launched, of course, you can't call it back, modify,
27:20and relaunch.
27:21It's a kind of difficult game.
27:25I see that in the conversation, everybody has agility in mind.
27:30Okay, what is agility when it comes to procurement procedures?
27:33That's an interesting one.
27:35And I think it goes, and the answer has been also given by Minister Janus,
27:40we also need to take some risk.
27:42We don't like to take risk with taxpayers' money.
27:46We are responsible of spending it wisely.
27:49But I think we can do it wisely with taking a slight amount of risk as well,
27:54just for the sake of making things a bit more quick.
27:59We also have to recognise that sometimes when you do things urgently,
28:03it's probably better to have a plan A, a plan B, a plan C.
28:06And then you see what's happening, and then you select the best one,
28:09the first one to be ready, et cetera, et cetera.
28:12Can I just say, though, it's not just about money.
28:16You're a mug, Jenny.
28:17Yeah, it's not just about the money.
28:19Like, we have companies that are working with the Department of Defence in the U.S.,
28:23and there's alternative procurement.
28:25They get this alternative workflow so that they can move a lot faster,
28:30and that would be very different than a large, you know, contracting company that goes through it.
28:35And so I think you can unlock it not just with money but with cutting down on the bureaucracy.
28:41It's exactly what I'm saying, but also I don't want to shoot myself in the foot.
28:45I'm part of that bureaucracy, so I have to be careful with what I'm saying.
28:51But you're right, and that's why we're investing a lot on smaller companies
28:54because we think that agility comes also from there.
28:57You know that innovation comes from the smaller companies, and a good example here, of course.
29:02But it's not all. It's a whole system that we have to organize.
29:06Of course, we can look at what the U.S. is doing, and we're trying to do it in Europe.
29:13It will be different in Europe, certainly.
29:16But, yes, we can look at what works in the U.S. and what failed in there.
29:23The last thing I would like to mention also is innovation.
29:28Innovation, of course, is part of the game.
29:31You need innovation to make sure that your innovation is getting into your products fast.
29:38So that's also another thing we need to introduce in our procedures.
29:42In our official procedures, when a contract is signed, you sign for a product,
29:45and you can't put any innovation in it unless you have decided at the beginning,
29:49which sounds a bit strange, but it's the way it works.
29:53The other innovation I think that is missing right now is the innovation that helps us build equipments in great
30:05quantities.
30:05That was part of the question also that Minister Yenos gave a bit earlier.
30:14But we need also things in good quantity.
30:17When it comes to defense, your products will take hits, of course.
30:20You will have to make sure that your lines of delivery are always there,
30:25and you have to make sure that your delivery lines can be adapted with the changes and with innovation that
30:32comes along the way.
30:33And that's something which doesn't come across.
30:35Innovation is very often a broad idea, something completely new.
30:40Sometimes it's just making sure that your production is more efficient.
30:45Thank you, General Adam.
30:48If we place ourselves on the other side, on the startup side,
30:54there's something that is really important for them, is to be resilient,
30:59to be able to build capabilities on the long term.
31:03And Infinite Orbit here is a great example.
31:08Adele, you started building the company with a commercial angle, a sustainability angle,
31:15and then defense came knocking at your door.
31:18So you are actually a dual-use company.
31:22And what is interesting is to understand how that shift happened.
31:28Why is it important for you to be dual-use?
31:33And what did you do to adapt?
31:37Thanks for the question.
31:38I'll answer, but I'll answer the previous question, too.
31:42Because I like the previous question you said, how money flows.
31:46There is no money flow.
31:47There is no Adele to be sitting with you here and talking.
31:50So you also asked me to be concrete.
31:54So for me to be concrete, the best money is his money.
31:57I want customers, investment, with all my respect, you know, comes later.
32:03And Minister, if you allow him to give me, oh, you're not in the same country,
32:08but you should allow him to give me a flexible contract.
32:12Oh, I want this next week because my neighbor is not behaving correctly.
32:18And can you do it like this or like that?
32:21And he doesn't know exactly what I can do.
32:24He doesn't know exactly what he wants.
32:25But he still gives me a very flexible contract.
32:28That's the best money flow ever.
32:30Because then I run and I build.
32:32And you don't need to think about investment.
32:37Jenny will invest private money and she will get it.
32:40So the best thing for a startup is a contract that the customer needs tomorrow.
32:45And even before the money, I need the customer.
32:48The customer tells me, Adele, this is what I need.
32:50This is what I need.
32:51And then they come back next week.
32:52No, this is what I need.
32:53And it keeps evolving.
32:54So the best money is the customer money.
32:57It's very simple, very basic maybe, but the best money is customer money.
33:03So for a defense contractor to be able to contract in a very flexible way.
33:09That's to answer your question.
33:11Now, how we end up contracting with defense ourselves, we started the company around a technology that we had the
33:23conviction that this technology will allow for in-orbit servicing, for action in space, to be something commercial, to be
33:31cost effective.
33:32So customers, whether they are from defense or from pure commercial, can afford it.
33:39We built that technology, we went commercial, we advanced, we knew that defense may want to be interested one day.
33:48But they were just talking to us out of curiosity from day one, where we spoke to what became our
33:57customer in defense to the day that they gave us a contract.
34:04Five years happened.
34:07Five years happened.
34:08In five years, you see some countries around us, countries do disappear in five years or do get cut in
34:13a half.
34:15But when I see in those five years, everything happened the last three months, because we're lucky, probably we're not
34:24an example to generalize, but we built our technology with commercial.
34:29And then, of course, we got great VCs at some point, and we were ready.
34:33And then when they spoke to us, they said, oh, you're almost 90% there.
34:38And that accelerated, can you be there in a year and a half?
34:42Yes, here's the proof.
34:43Then we got a contract, and now we're presenting something, I guess, important in the defense, because we are, to
34:50my knowledge, the only company in Europe, a space company in Europe, who is going to do action in space
34:58in the next 18 months.
35:01So we were lucky because we grew in the commercial sector.
35:06And also, I think we're lucky because we're in a country that really understands what space is and what resilience
35:13means in space.
35:14So they were able to accelerate at the end.
35:16But the three months that happened at the end of the five years, they could have happened at the beginning
35:23of five years, if the pressure from outside was there, and if the flexibility that I saw in contracting, they
35:30were very flexible, was there.
35:33But I think when you get pressure from outside, you became flexible.
35:37You mentioned Silicon Valley.
35:38Maybe it's not known.
35:39Silicon Valley started around defense.
35:41A huge acceleration in World War II.
35:44World War II, boom, boom, boom, boom, we want this, we want that.
35:46But all the companies, all the technology started there.
35:49So now that we have that, maybe we should look at it positively, and we contract startups that have some
35:56product that we don't know exactly what it is.
35:59I know it's very difficult.
36:00I know it could be bureaucratic.
36:01But I'm afraid that's the only way.
36:04If you want to move capital through VCs, it takes longer.
36:10So maybe I'm talking too much for myself, but that's what it is.
36:14Well, thanks, Adele.
36:16It's a very clear call to action.
36:18We need more contracts.
36:21From the investor side, Jenny, can you share a bit your experience and what makes a good dual use or
36:29defense tech company good and investable?
36:32I'm sure you have seen a lot of startups, and your experience is very valuable to us.
36:38Yeah, well, I think, you know, going back to the infrastructure that we have.
36:42So procurement, being able to go through those long sales cycles and figure out how to work the system a
36:48little bit so that they don't have, you know, paralysis in, you know, trying to get their contracts.
36:54So I think, you know, the characteristics of the founders that we're looking for are the ones that can be
36:59persistent and, you know, get through those cycles.
37:03In the U.S., all the military have these kind of labs, right?
37:08So whether the Air Force has something called AFWERX and obviously the DOD and the SBIR, there's a gazillion acronyms.
37:15But basically, these are the onboards, the ramps to get into military contracts.
37:20And so I think founders that are, you know, really able to access all of the free money, the grants,
37:28there's so much out there.
37:29So we're definitely, you know, as we evaluate, founders are kind of looking for those ones that can be really
37:34proactive with, you know, all of everything that's out there for them.
37:39So I'd say those are some of the things that, you know, we're looking for.
37:42And then just going back to the point about cash, it's a very exciting time, obviously, with AI.
37:51I think that we're seeing a lot of hardware companies that are looking more like software companies.
37:56They're able to use automation for the design, for the implementation, for the QA testing.
38:03And so when I was investing first in deep tech about 2014, 2015, the companies I was investing in, one
38:11was in security, one was in advanced manufacturing.
38:14They were raising hundreds of millions of dollars before some exit.
38:17And I think the efficiency that you're seeing now with AI is pretty astounding, right?
38:22The ability to use synthetic data to train your models, to do your design is really transformational.
38:28So I'm hopeful that, you know, it won't be so expensive to build deep tech, defense tech, and hopefully that'll
38:36help, you know, folks, countries that don't have as much cash.
38:41Thanks very much, Jenny.
38:44A question for you, Vice Minister.
38:47If defense funding keeps accelerating, what's the risk Europe gets wrong?
38:53And what makes this real strategic shift rather than a spending spike?
39:04We probably just discussed or touched that point that it's easy to spend money, generally, especially by buying equipment.
39:14But the thing is that we can make many mistakes.
39:19This is the problem, because time is very expensive.
39:27And at the same time, we have to move fast.
39:30Yeah?
39:31So this is the thing, that we have to be very, very smart with our decisions, long-term decisions,
39:38because this is not a temporary action.
39:40This is not a temporary exercise.
39:43But to connect all dots, to understand what is next-generation technology,
39:53how to use real-time data, real-time information on the ground.
39:58Why it's important?
39:59Because it changes a lot on the ground.
40:02And how to learn best practices.
40:06Believe it or not, it's difficult to understand.
40:08But the reality is that, at the moment, Ukraine has the strongest army in Europe.
40:14This is true.
40:15So we have to learn from them.
40:17We have to learn, we have to understand technology that they developed.
40:22But they're moving fast.
40:24They're moving fast.
40:25So the question is, how to leverage their experience, how to connect their technology with our capabilities.
40:33This is the thing.
40:35I think we have to learn from each other.
40:37And we have to merge our forces, as I mentioned before.
40:43Because the problem that mistakes, they really, in this area, they will be super expensive.
40:54And that's why we have to be super careful, super smart, but at the same time fast.
41:00With the risk capital, but not only with the risk capital.
41:03With the political decisions as well, with political will on European level.
41:09Again, with our great partners like UK as well.
41:13And other countries that are still not within European Union.
41:18But also cooperating with our NATO partners in other continents.
41:26US, Canada, other countries that are really willing to help.
41:31Willing to support us with the right technology.
41:35With the right approach.
41:38So it's easy to make, in short, it's easy to make mistakes.
41:42But I do believe that we can avoid and we can take the right direction of travel.
41:51Of course, working together.
41:54Thank you very much, Vice Minister.
41:57To conclude this panel, I'm going to put my European hat and ask each and one of you,
42:04what is the single thing Europe must do in the next 12 months to stop lagging behind?
42:14Who wants to start?
42:21It's been a little bit lecturing, everybody.
42:25But it's not really Europe.
42:27It's more a message to the member states of the EU or the nations in Europe, generally.
42:35I think we still need to realize that our interests, whether we like it or not,
42:41are completely interlinked or dependent of each other.
42:45So if we want to take our defense seriously, we also need to consider that and stop nagging
42:54each other or competing with each other and really unite our efforts to make sure that
42:59we are ready.
43:00It's not easy in defense.
43:02So it's a call.
43:04But sometimes there are some easy solutions.
43:06There are some risks, political risks that should be taken and that we are not taking for
43:13some reasons.
43:15But really, the common interests of the difference of Europe really needs that we stop a little
43:22bit competing with each other.
43:24The competition will still be there, of course.
43:26But we need to make sure that we can also unite efforts when it comes to our real interests
43:32in the future.
43:35I'll just echo that.
43:36I don't see big decisions happening in the next 12 months from Europe as a whole.
43:41Defense is still within the hands of sovereign nations.
43:45So I just think I hope they can make decisions to invest in their own capacities, but that
43:51it will be coherent.
43:53So if every member state is making investments in defense that is coherent with the needs of
44:02other member states and with the situation of other member states and with the capacity
44:07of other member states, I think overall it will converge to something big that makes sense.
44:13But if we wait for some big decisions to be made by so many people, yeah, probably it's not
44:21going to happen.
44:21You mentioned 12 months.
44:22So it's, yeah.
44:24Investment is going to come from member states.
44:26I just hope it will be coherent.
44:28So coherence would be my word.
44:32I'd say less about the money, more about unsticking the bureaucracy.
44:36We've had several companies that are from here.
44:39The founders are from here, but they are building their companies in the U.S. because they can
44:44move faster.
44:45So I think, you know, if you can unstick the systems here, it's a great place to build.
44:51Less word for you, Vice Minister.
44:53I agree.
44:54It's not only about capital.
44:55It's about access and as I mentioned before, why saving and investment union is so important
45:03because we can connect our quite strong pension funds in Europe that currently investing in
45:09the U.S. with venture capital, with our savings that are unaffected, unfortunately.
45:20But we have, as Europeans, we have billions of billions of savings on our banking accounts.
45:27But the thing is how to connect this to one ecosystem, to one strong ecosystem like saving
45:35and investment union.
45:36So this is the work that I would like to foster and to make great progress, also using our
45:46upcoming presidency for the EU, but also using this and leveraging this political will that
45:54I have been hearing for the last few months from European leaders.
46:01Adel, General, Jenny, and Vice Minister, thank you very much for this very honest conversation
46:06and please give a round of applause to our full panelists.
46:09Thank you very much.
46:10Thank you very much.
46:10Thank you very much.
46:10Thank you very much.
46:10Thank you very much.
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