- 16 hours ago
Europe is accelerating investment in frontier technologies, from AI and defense to energy, but capital alone won’t secure leadership. The challenge is execution: building real capabilities at the speed and scale required to compete globally. Where is Europe creating true depth in critical technologies and where is it falling behind? What gaps persist between ambition and performance? And what must investors, founders, and institutions do differently to turn innovation into lasting strategic advantage?
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00:00Hello, VivaTech. I must say I'm going to get that music played when I walk into any sort of room.
00:05I think this is the way that you should walk into a room.
00:08Very happy to be with you today.
00:10I've got a few slides which we're going to set the stage on the discussion that we're about to have.
00:15My name is Dr. Simon Radford and I head up policy for the Milken Institute here in Europe.
00:22For those of you who don't know the Milken Institute, we're an international finance think tank
00:26which brings together investors, policy makers, entrepreneurs and others
00:31to solve the biggest problems facing the world.
00:34And we're going to be talking about some of them today.
00:38So a year ago at our global conference in Los Angeles,
00:42we launched our Investing in Europe's Competitiveness Initiative.
00:47And that's what I want to talk to you about today.
00:51At that same global conference, we had around $30 trillion worth of assets.
00:57And they could put their money to work anywhere in the world.
01:00They could put their money in bonds in Japan, in American equity.
01:05But what we want them to do, and what I think people here probably want them to do,
01:09is to see opportunity in Europe.
01:12And that's where we come in.
01:14Our initiative has three main strands,
01:16whether it's investing in decarbonisation and infrastructure,
01:19whether it's closing the innovation and tech gap with the rest of the world,
01:23or investing in defence.
01:24We're bringing together investors, policy makers and others
01:27so that there's risk-adjusted returns for investors,
01:30so they decide that it's good business to put their money into these sectors.
01:34For policy makers, it solves the problems that we face as a people here in Europe.
01:39And for entrepreneurs and others, and we're about to hear some of their stories,
01:41it's the powder which helps them drive their businesses
01:45and grow new businesses, hire people, and solve real problems.
01:52Over the course of that last year or 15 months,
01:54we've had many conversations, from here in Paris to Berlin to Davos to Munich to London.
02:01And whether it's across any of those three areas I mentioned,
02:04one consistent theme comes through.
02:07For Europe to be competitive, it can't just win the race of today,
02:10it needs to be competitive in the critical technologies of tomorrow.
02:15And so there's three main questions which we might ask ourselves if that's the case.
02:19First of all, how is Europe performing in that race for critical technologies?
02:24Rather than just talking about it, is there some way to quantify how we're doing?
02:27The second one is, should Europe focus on all of them, or should we pick our spots?
02:32Can you compete in all of the critical technologies of tomorrow?
02:35And the last, and we've heard a lot about it here today,
02:37is around the issues around sovereignty and dependence.
02:41How do these critical technologies potentially influence that debate?
02:46So to answer some of these questions,
02:49my team and I put together a unique database of patents.
02:53And that brings together 2.1 million critical technology patent families.
02:58This is a sizable data set across nine critical technology fields,
03:03which contain 53 subfields, so quite a broad range of those critical technologies.
03:09And it's filtered for the patents that matter, globally significant filings.
03:13Not just filings that are in the UK and someone forgets about,
03:16but some that's being commercialized globally.
03:20So my aim in this little talk before our panel is to try and provide you three things.
03:26This is my promise to you.
03:27First, three insights from that data set.
03:31Second, two provocations to try and get you talking and thinking or whatever for the rest of the day.
03:36And then don't worry, there will be an expert panel.
03:39So hang on and we'll get there.
03:42So, first of all, nine critical technologies.
03:45Why nine?
03:46Well, when you look at, you know, whether it's robotics, automation, advanced manufacturing,
03:52and, you know, advanced manufacturing, you might think about ARM and advanced lithography,
03:56biotech, medtech, advanced materials.
03:59These are the nine technologies that whether you're talking to people in Brussels, London, Beijing, DC, or whatever,
04:07these are the nine critical technologies that everyone agrees
04:09are the nine technologies that are going to define the decades to come.
04:14But as you can see, Europe faces a widening gap at the digital frontier.
04:19It has genuine strengths, and this is insight number one,
04:22but faces a widening gap at that digital frontier.
04:27So what is this side showing?
04:29And I know people love a good bubble chart.
04:30So along the bottom is what us geeks called revealed technological advantage.
04:35What that means is to the right of that line means a country leans into that field more than the
04:42world average.
04:43It specializes compared to the rest of the world.
04:45The left means it underperforms.
04:47On that y-axis, that's the share of world patents that that country is generating in a particular technology.
04:55So in an ideal world, you might be in the top right, strongly specializing and having a large impact compared
05:02to the rest of the world.
05:03How does Europe do?
05:06Well, as you can see, the genuine strength sits on the right-hand side.
05:11Robotics, automation, and advanced manufacturing, as well as advanced materials.
05:15It's potentially not a surprise to see clean tech and advanced energy in the other familiar European area.
05:22But now look in the bottom left.
05:25You'll see digital AI in the compute stack.
05:28AI and machine learning, data and cybersecurity, advanced communications, quantum.
05:32Europe is to the left of the line on all of these critical technologies and low down.
05:37It doesn't stand out globally.
05:39But what about the U.S.?
05:42Well, bring in the U.S. and note the contrast.
05:45The blue bubbles cluster in the top right, high share, and clear advantage.
05:49And they sit in the exact same fields where Europe is weakest.
05:54So when we talk about sovereignty and dependency, this is the context in which we're having that conversation.
06:01The share of world patents rewards sheer size, and these economies are different sizes.
06:05So maybe it's worth asking not who dominates.
06:09Maybe the U.S. just dominates because it has a big population, China too.
06:12But what happens when we adjust for the size of economies, for economic weight?
06:17Well, here's some interesting things pop out.
06:20As you can see, once you control for the size of an economy, Korea's outside performance relative to GDP stands
06:29out.
06:30Europe's position, particularly across the AI and digital stack, looks thin.
06:35But generally, it's holding its own a little bit.
06:38So that brings us to insight too.
06:41And maybe this one is not that surprising, but it comes through in the data.
06:45China has rapidly grown its patent base across every single critical technology field.
06:52So as momentum's shifted east and China's rapidly growing, here on the y-axis, we show a 10-year growth
07:00rate.
07:00So not a snapshot in time, but a trajectory.
07:03And on the x-axis again, our old friend reveals technological advantage.
07:08The United States retains a strong and mature technological advantages, but growth is largely flat.
07:15Europe grows, but only in pockets.
07:19But what happens with China?
07:21As you can see, China is rapidly going, certainly up a bigger share of patents, and certainly also further to
07:28the right, specializing compared to the average.
07:31But if we're seeing China rapidly grow, that must be at the expense of someone, right?
07:37China can't grow in and of itself, and everyone else grow at the same time.
07:40This is a relative measure.
07:43So China's rise tracks its growing scale and emergence.
07:47But the good news is, it's not necessarily all at Europe's expense.
07:51So this is insight three.
07:53As you can see, that red line very sharply upwards.
07:56But the European Union, I'm pleased to say, down a little bit, but not dramatically.
08:02You can see why over the last two U.S. administrations, this anxiety about China and technology has become more
08:09and more real.
08:10The downward slope of the United States is extremely pronounced.
08:13And so China's rise is, to quote those of you who remember your Thucydides,
08:18the rise in China is perverting anxiety in Washington, D.C.
08:22It's a historical phenomenon playing out again.
08:26So who is losing ground?
08:29That's what we've seen.
08:32But let's look at the insight three.
08:37But what about the two provocations I promised?
08:40So maybe a first one.
08:42The first one is, part of the story is clearly about R&D and the need to catalyze more private
08:48sector innovation to compete.
08:49It's not just about spending our way to competitors in all of this.
08:53It's about catalyzing investment from both private capital as well as public capital and those two things working together.
09:01So you saw South Korea's results earlier and the fact that they're punching well above their weight.
09:06Well, maybe this slide goes some way to explaining why that might be the case.
09:12But it's not just about spending more.
09:14I mean, any old fool can just lavish people with money and claim we're spending more on R&D.
09:19It's also about spending strategically in certain areas, which leads me to my second provocation.
09:29Europe needs to stop defending its forts and instead build new moats.
09:35It's not just enough to spend R&D in the areas you currently have or you've historically dominated.
09:40And, you know, we're here in France and I see the Renaults and Citicons.
09:44When I'm in Germany, of course, I see the VWs and the Mercedes.
09:48A lot of patents are going around fortifying existing strengths.
09:52Where China stands out, Korea stands out, and others, it's about patenting in new areas that traditionally haven't been areas
09:58of strength.
09:59Capital needs to flow into those new areas.
10:01And that requires a lot more bravery and a lot more ambition.
10:06So to talk about how we can have some of that more bravery and some of that ambition, I'm pleased
10:11to welcome onto the stage in a second our expert panel.
10:15And some of the questions I hope we'll get to are, are some of these technologies more critical than others?
10:20We've looked at nine technologies.
10:21But should we be trying to dominate nine or are there certain ones we should be picking out?
10:26Second, we're going to talk a bit about re-industrialization.
10:29It's all well and good coming up with great ideas, but unless you build products, these things wither on the
10:34vine.
10:35And we've seen that scale-up gap, that industrialization problem, played out before.
10:40And lastly, the role of defense.
10:42We saw defense was critical to the rise in Silicon Valley.
10:46Defense has been critical in some of the biggest breakthroughs.
10:48The iPhones in your pocket would not have been possible without Pentagon spending and other things.
10:54So can defense be a catalyst again for new innovation?
10:58To help answer some of these questions and to maybe build on some of the things I've just said, I'd
11:03like to welcome on our expert panel.
11:04But if you would like to hear more about some of this data, I'd love to connect with you afterwards.
11:09But let's explore some of those themes.
11:10Can I ask our panel to join me, please?
11:28So it's always good to start a hard-hitting panel with an apology, but I'm British and I apologize for
11:33a living.
11:34So I would say that Irina was going to join us from Firebird,
11:38who was a brilliant Ukrainian drone manufacturer,
11:42but she can't be with us, so we have a reluctant mantle.
11:45I'm sure we'd have agreed that we'd have preferred to have Irina with us.
11:48So apologies on her behalf and behalf of all of us that Irina isn't here.
11:52But we have some wonderful guests to speak to us on this today.
11:57Andre, you'll notice the hat, the famous hat,
12:00Make Europe Great Again.
12:01I think that's something which we can all agree with, right?
12:04Let me start with you.
12:07We talked about these nine critical technologies.
12:10We looked at how Europe is doing.
12:12If we're going to make Europe great again,
12:15are some of these technologies more important than others?
12:17Are some winner-take-all?
12:19Does Europe need to be out ahead in all of them?
12:21Or can we just be a fast follower?
12:23What's your thought?
12:25First, thank you for being here.
12:27Great, Simon, for your introduction.
12:30We're in a world of calculated bets.
12:33If you look at the winning companies today, the winning countries,
12:37they are not doing everything.
12:38They place very calculated bets.
12:41Some bets work out amazingly.
12:44Think about the $2 billion investment that Microsoft did in OpenAI.
12:48It turned out to be a $500,000 multiple on this investment.
12:53Mark Zuckerberg's bet on Metaverse was a very costly one,
12:58probably too early.
12:59Time will tell.
13:00But what is sure is that if you don't do any bets, you will lose.
13:06I mean, it's a bit like the lottery.
13:07And if we want to be not pessimistic but realistic,
13:11from a European point of view, we are not making any bets.
13:15The big companies, probably Philippe is a bit an exception,
13:19but are making very little bets.
13:22You have a little bit of ASML with Mistral doing one.
13:25But who is really taking the sense of urgency that we see,
13:29especially when we look at the Eastern Front?
13:32Last thing is, I think it's probably a democratic problem
13:36that we are trying to address.
13:39We at JEDI, we fund frontier technologies on the model of DARPA,
13:43so we try to solve societally, strategically important topics.
13:48And some topics are just more important than others.
13:51Solving the dependency on critical materials is one.
13:53Making sure that robotics can be the next big industry,
13:58pulling everything else like automotive used to the space.
14:01We have understood how much it's important on all topics.
14:04So some bets are more important.
14:06So we need to stop with this spraying and praying
14:10that we do too often in Europe.
14:12I'll just give you an example.
14:14The Horizon program, which is our fantastic research program,
14:17is 35,000 projects.
14:20When you have 35,000 priorities, you have none.
14:25Don't spray and pray words of wisdom in almost all contexts,
14:28I think, potentially.
14:30Philippe, let me come to you next.
14:33On defense and security, which was a point we brought up earlier,
14:37what do these technologies mean for Europe's security?
14:40You're at the front end of this in Thales, in R&D.
14:43And where is Europe in the race to build up its defense industrial base?
14:47Yeah, so in fact, and let me start with a glimpse of optimism.
14:52And because, in fact, Europe on many fronts has core technologies and skills.
14:58I think your data was showing that there are really areas of strength,
15:02whether it was communication sensors and whatsoever.
15:04And somehow, many of them also are coming from dual technology.
15:09And dual meaning that very often defense brings you to the frontier
15:13and brings you to the next level.
15:15So clearly, for critical defense usage, I would not say we are behind.
15:20This is rather the reverse.
15:22Even when you think about trusted AI, which is not the AI you use normally,
15:28when you think about quantum technologies,
15:30whether it is computing or sensors, which is more air-filled,
15:33I think Europe is rather more on the front than on the back.
15:38And really, the problem, if I may say, and I share a bit the point of André,
15:43is not really how we invent.
15:45It's really how we scale.
15:47And clearly, it's meaning choices.
15:50It's scaling faster.
15:53It's also reducing our dependencies.
15:56Because very often, we make the choice by easiness
16:00to rely on others to go for our defense, buying to other nations.
16:05And clearly, this is true in air, in the missile.
16:09This is true in early warning for space, as an example.
16:12And clearly, this is something to change.
16:14And I would say that the optimism there as well is when you see Europe
16:18deciding that for the large programs, whether it is safe or deep,
16:22there is a European preference.
16:24And this is the first time it is there.
16:26So clearly, if I move to Thales, just in a few words,
16:30as a tech player, dual by nature, civil and defense,
16:36we try to help Europe to bridge some of those gaps.
16:40So clearly, this is why we invest 4.5 billion euros in R&D every year,
16:46which makes us really a tech player.
16:49Some of our systems are known as some of the best systems in the world,
16:53when I'm thinking of air defense systems with SOMPTI,
16:56which has been chosen by several European nations as we speak.
17:00We are massively investing as well in our factories
17:02in order to ramp up scaling.
17:05This is really the point.
17:07And then, if you look, this is also a matter to go for competitiveness and scale.
17:12If you were in Eurosatory yesterday, we announced a partnership with Renault
17:17in order to industrialize drones at large scale
17:21and be able to produce them whenever the forces need them.
17:27And then, the last point I would make
17:29is also the point that we need absolutely to reduce critical dependencies.
17:34And in particular, we do a lot of electronics in Thales.
17:37And therefore, when you think about the world of semiconductors,
17:41it is highly concentrated on the two sides of the world,
17:45if I may say so.
17:47And this is why we are doing research in semiconductors.
17:51This is also why we have specific fundries in certain domain.
17:56And three weeks ago, we announced as well,
17:58landing in Europe a factory for advanced packaging
18:02that we are doing with Foxconn
18:04in order to bring the technology in Europe,
18:06but as well with Vadiol.
18:08That's fascinating.
18:09And we had the CEO of ASML at our global conference
18:12and obviously a choke point there in the Netherlands
18:15of the only company in the world that can do what it does.
18:18But they only sell 1% of their machines to European companies,
18:21which is fascinating.
18:23Francesco, over to you next.
18:26When I hear about some more critical than others,
18:29a lot of what I get told is,
18:31well, for Europe, it's about energy, energy, energy.
18:34We can't compete on the others
18:35unless we have a lot lower energy costs.
18:38Proxima, you're going to solve this problem for us.
18:41But is this a thesis that you buy?
18:45And if that is the case,
18:48what role does fusion play in that
18:49and what should it be in a wider energy strategy?
18:52Yes, I think in the world of energy,
18:54lots of people disagree on what is the right strategy.
18:57The one thing we cannot disagree on
18:58is that energy is 5% of the GDP
19:00and the other 95% depends on the 5%.
19:03So the one thing you cannot, I think,
19:05argue that is not a strategic field
19:09is that 5%.
19:10However you go about getting your balanced grid,
19:15hopefully a clean one,
19:16you need to have a strategy towards that.
19:18Clearly, we've done a few mistakes across Europe.
19:20In fact, we haven't even agreed
19:21on a European energy strategy, you could say.
19:24So France and Germany do completely different things.
19:27And that also has an impact on energy costs.
19:30The balance of the grid is one of the things
19:33that we think fusion can help addressing.
19:36So we're pursuing a kind of device
19:38called a QI stellarator.
19:39That's a donut-shaped device
19:41with powerful magnets
19:43to confine a small star in a laboratory.
19:46And if you manage to get that done
19:47and heat this heavy forms of hydrogen
19:50to 150 million degrees
19:51and keep them stable,
19:53then you have an effectively limitless source of energy
19:57that does not create complex dependencies
20:00on supply chains that are not European.
20:02So fusion is fantastic.
20:03We've known that for quite some time.
20:05It's just bloody hard.
20:06And a company like Proxima,
20:08we are 170 people,
20:10give or take Munich, Zurich, Oxford.
20:12We think of ourselves as a European player
20:15to build fusion in Europe
20:17and then make this into a European key strength.
20:21The fact that we think fusion
20:23is the ultimate source of energy
20:24does not mean that Europe should not be
20:26addressing its energy problem more broadly.
20:28Fusion is not a substitute
20:29for the renewables that we can scale today.
20:32Fusion is in R&D space,
20:34whereas photovoltaics are fantastically cheap now
20:37and they're in deployment.
20:38But their intermittency needs to be dealt with.
20:41We also need to deal with the fact
20:42that we don't really make the photovoltaics in Europe.
20:45And we need to think about
20:46how do we lower the entire cost
20:49and how do we produce value in Europe
20:51that stays in Europe.
20:52And fusion is a fantastic opportunity for Europe.
20:54We have seven to eight times more devices
20:57of this magnetic confinement fusion category
20:59in Europe compared to the United States.
21:02So seeing that not as a European edge
21:04is pretty difficult.
21:05That's great.
21:05So a short, medium and long-term energy plan
21:08rather than one energy plan makes a lot of sense.
21:10Andre, back to you.
21:12We've talked about energy,
21:14which is a big, maybe, constraint
21:16on making Europe great again.
21:18What other structural issues do you see
21:21that are standing in the way?
21:22We both do a lot of work
21:23or think a lot about the re-industrialization of Europe.
21:26What recipe do we need to follow
21:28other than getting energy costs down?
21:29I think what Francesco said is super important.
21:31is I talked about calculated bets
21:34and anticipating surprises.
21:37You know, the inspiration for us at JEDI is the U.S. DARPA
21:41that failed 95% of their programs
21:44but was always very early in identifying topics
21:49which would be strategic surprise.
21:50Autonomous driving, 2005, became way more.
21:53The first COVID, coronavirus, fast vaccine response, 2010.
22:00GPS, the story is very old.
22:03If our democracies cannot get long-term thinking anymore,
22:09then increasingly we will have,
22:11like you countrymen in the U.K.,
22:13say we need to take back control
22:15because other people will have a decision on our future.
22:20What happened Friday 5.21 p.m. in Washington
22:24without any consultation of Europe?
22:27So I think I hear the G7 leaders,
22:30especially the Europeans,
22:31thinking they are still powers.
22:33We are not.
22:35Washington did not even bother to inform us about that.
22:39So it's not being pessimistic, Philippe.
22:42It's just if we are not realistic,
22:44that's point number one.
22:46Point number two, how do we build long-term thinking?
22:49And that's why defense is so important
22:51because in our democracies,
22:52it's the only ministry that has a long-term planning
22:55over the yearly budget cycle.
22:58So that's why we are.
23:00And the third thing is this capacity
23:04of making choices and informed choices.
23:10Right now, if you're a fast follower,
23:12I think it's a losing proposition.
23:14You're a fast follower on electric cars,
23:16the Chinese will win.
23:17You're a fast follower on satellites
23:20and you want to do Iris Square,
23:22which is basically a pale copy of,
23:24I'm not making friends here,
23:26of Starlink.
23:28Elon Musk has demonstrated
23:30that you like him or not,
23:31that he's a better executor.
23:33So we need to find the next big thing.
23:36And that's my fourth point,
23:38is we need courage.
23:40We need courage because that means
23:42we should not do French tech anymore.
23:44We cannot speak Europe and then do French tech.
23:48And then German tech.
23:50And then Lithuanian tech.
23:51I mean, I would say as a Corsican,
23:52let's do Corsican tech.
23:54I mean, this is just getting fragmentation
23:57at the moment where we need scale.
23:58That's point number one.
24:00And point number two,
24:01we need to have the courage to say,
24:04well, let's not let fusion companies
24:07go to Colorado or have much better funding.
24:10Let's really bet big on that
24:13because our energy prices are much higher.
24:16Even in France,
24:17I hear some people say two times,
24:20some people say four times.
24:21It's wrong to say that our energy prices
24:24are cheaper than in the U.S.
24:26That's not the case.
24:27So what we're doing right now
24:29is crowding out all the industries
24:31that need a lot of energy,
24:33batteries, minerals, obviously.
24:38So this is absolute key to have this courage.
24:42And I must admit,
24:44the decision was on Friday.
24:46We are Wednesday.
24:48Wednesday, if public and private leaders
24:52took it really seriously,
24:54we would have a conclave,
24:55you know, like the place
24:56where you elect a pope
24:57and not let people who have an influence
25:00on the future of Europe
25:01get out of the room.
25:03But it seems, you know,
25:04we have these wake-up calls
25:05and we keep banging on the snooze button.
25:08So I don't know what we need.
25:10We will probably need,
25:11and it's terrible to say,
25:13we will need a full-fledged war
25:14to realize where we are.
25:16So you said we should be more realistic.
25:18I noticed the G7 is in Evian, correct?
25:21Which, of course, is naive spelled backwards.
25:23So maybe that's why.
25:25Anyway.
25:25I didn't know that, Fran.
25:26Yeah, there you go.
25:28Right, first fact
25:29that you can take from this panel.
25:31You mentioned Fusion,
25:32the need to do it here.
25:33So, Francesco,
25:34I wanted to actually follow up
25:35on that specifically.
25:37You brought the first commercial accelerator
25:38to the grid.
25:39There were other people
25:40in other regions working on Fusion.
25:42What will it take
25:43to make Fusion work
25:46and be best and biggest
25:48in Europe rather than elsewhere?
25:50Yeah, so Fusion is not a challenge
25:52that will be solved in a year,
25:54nor in five.
25:55Proxima doesn't claim
25:56to be connecting
25:57to the grid and power in Europe
25:58over the next even a decade.
26:00We're targeting a first power plant
26:02by the end of the 2030s.
26:03It's a kind of journey
26:04that involves some degree
26:05of coherence in policy,
26:07in funding,
26:08and maybe to address
26:10to what extent
26:11can we expect the continent
26:13to really come together
26:14and make a concerted choice
26:16that's just not going
26:17to really happen.
26:18I think one reason
26:19for hope in Europe
26:20is on deep tech,
26:22on the fact that
26:22our institutions,
26:23however messy
26:25and wonderfully democratic,
26:27they also are better
26:28institutions, I believe,
26:29in many ways.
26:30If we manage
26:31to build partnerships
26:32between industrial
26:33major players,
26:35deep tech scale-ups
26:36and a government,
26:37it cannot involve
26:39unanimity of voting
26:40in the European Parliament,
26:41then we do have a shot.
26:43So Proxima has found
26:44a great partner
26:45in the Bavarian government.
26:46We work a lot
26:47with the German government.
26:48There is a history
26:49of fusion accelerator research
26:52in Germany
26:53and we're leveraging that.
26:55And so while we think
26:56of ourselves
26:56as a European company,
26:57we also go and double down
26:59on a partnership
27:00with a government
27:01that believes
27:02in what we're doing
27:02and puts money
27:04where their mouth is.
27:05So that's what we found
27:07in developing this journey.
27:08If you don't have
27:10enough funding,
27:11of course you don't go anywhere.
27:12If you don't have policy
27:13that supports you,
27:13you don't go anywhere.
27:14But I think the one thing
27:15that maybe to add
27:17to what Andre was saying,
27:18the one thing we're missing
27:19in Europe is somewhat
27:20maybe that connects
27:21to the point of courage.
27:22It's founders.
27:23It's people that are going
27:25to go to the end
27:25of a project
27:26that involves
27:26a decade-long timescale.
27:28We don't like the money.
27:30We don't like the technology.
27:31We just have to get
27:32our act together.
27:33But this, I think,
27:34waiting for the institutions
27:35to save us
27:36or for this to come
27:37from a public referendum
27:38is not naive.
27:40It's hopeful less
27:41without any evidence.
27:42So we've got to build companies
27:44that create a case
27:46for investors
27:46that is not philanthropic
27:48and then we go out there
27:49and there is no reason
27:50we will lose
27:51because their conditions
27:52are not worse
27:52than in the United States.
27:54And we've certainly
27:54got their talent.
27:56Philippe, I wanted
27:57to come back to you.
27:58You've been obviously
27:59doing a lot of work
28:00on Fusion
28:01and while this isn't
28:02just a Fusion panel,
28:04I wondered whether
28:04that might be...
28:05When I ask you
28:06what are you most optimistic
28:08about in terms of Europe?
28:09Where do you find,
28:10as a company like Thalys,
28:12where do you find,
28:13especially around dual use
28:15and other things,
28:16where are you most excited
28:17to head into next?
28:19Where are you finding opportunities?
28:20No, but in reality,
28:23in fact,
28:23the excitement is coming
28:26as well from the fact
28:27that when you work
28:29on deep tech
28:30and you were mentioning it,
28:32sometimes you find applications
28:33in different fields
28:34and you help the world
28:36solve big problems.
28:38And what is very interesting
28:39is that there is many examples
28:42where somehow
28:43the defense research,
28:45and I insist on the fact
28:46that in defense,
28:48you have companies in Europe
28:50who are not lagging
28:50behind others in the world.
28:52And when you are working
28:54on some technologies,
28:55let's take RF as an example.
28:58This is working on RF
29:00that you are able
29:01to build gyrotrons
29:02which are going to have
29:03an impact then on Fusion.
29:06When you master laser,
29:08then you can have as well
29:09an impact on an overkite
29:10on Fusion.
29:11And this is why,
29:12by the way,
29:13together with CEA
29:14and CNRS,
29:15we did our own venture
29:16in order to have
29:17an ignition a bit
29:18like you had
29:19in the NIF
29:20a few years ago.
29:23So clearly,
29:24this type of duality
29:25is for me
29:26is really a big excitement.
29:28Now,
29:28what I would say,
29:29what is the next frontier
29:30for us?
29:31This is definitely
29:34quantum.
29:35Quantum is
29:36at the same time
29:38a threat
29:38and a huge opportunity.
29:40A threat
29:41because we all
29:42know that there are
29:43people or nations
29:45which are storing
29:48encrypting data
29:49today
29:49in order to decode
29:51this data
29:51the day they get
29:52the quantum computer.
29:54So on one end,
29:55you need to protect yourself.
29:56This is why you work
29:57on post-quantum cryptology
29:58as an example.
29:59But on the other side,
30:01the use of quantum computers
30:03makes a huge difference
30:04in everything we do,
30:05including in defense.
30:06And last but not least,
30:07which is even more core
30:09to the business of Thales,
30:11let's imagine,
30:11and this is something
30:12on which we are working
30:13extensively,
30:14which is quantum sensing.
30:16And what does quantum sensing
30:17is using basically
30:18different kinds
30:19of quantum phenomenons
30:21in order to get sensors
30:23which are going to be
30:27either 100 or 1,000 times
30:29more precise
30:30than the previous ones.
30:32This can be used
30:32in navigation
30:33or this can be used
30:34in measurement
30:35of RF
30:36or electronic warfare
30:38or whatever you want
30:39to use it.
30:39And what is
30:40very exciting there
30:42is that if you make
30:43a sensor
30:43which is able
30:45to measure
30:45an electromagnetic signal
30:471,000 times more precise
30:50than the previous ones,
30:51then it means,
30:52for example,
30:53that you can do tomorrow
30:54an MRI
30:55which is 1,000 times smaller
30:58than the one
30:58you were doing
30:59because you don't have
31:00to create
31:01the huge electromagnetic field
31:03that you are using
31:04in an MRI.
31:05And this is somehow
31:06something exciting
31:07because you try
31:08to solve a problem
31:09in defence
31:10and you get
31:10an application
31:11in the civilian world.
31:13Fantastic.
31:13So we're almost out of time.
31:15I'm going to have
31:15one quick fire
31:16down the panel we go.
31:18If you could wave a wand,
31:20one wish
31:20or one reason
31:21to be optimistic,
31:22one thing
31:23for people here
31:24to go away
31:25and lobby people about
31:26or to make people
31:27be more aware of,
31:28what would it be?
31:29André,
31:30if we can start here
31:30and we'll come
31:31the way down.
31:32Well,
31:32I think we need
31:33to focus.
31:35The cards can be
31:35reshuffled all the time.
31:37So I think
31:38what the acceleration
31:39of science
31:40and technology today
31:41is just breathtaking
31:43and I think
31:44we need to
31:45really turbocharge
31:47all our science,
31:48all our technology
31:49development,
31:50especially with AI
31:51because when you think
31:52what science is,
31:53it's about setting
31:54a hypothesis
31:55and then validating it.
31:57AI allows you
31:58to completely open up
31:59your cognitive capabilities
32:01asking very,
32:02very different questions
32:03and validating that
32:05at the speed
32:06where we need it.
32:07So I'm hopeful
32:07that if we project
32:09ourselves like that,
32:10Europe can be back
32:11in the race.
32:12Fantastic.
32:13Philippe, quickly from here.
32:14I would say
32:14invest in the core technologies
32:16then find a way,
32:18make choices
32:18and scale them
32:20with definite choices
32:21and at the end
32:22make also bold decisions
32:24in order to buy
32:26European in certain domains.
32:28Fantastic.
32:29Simulation-driven hardware.
32:30Hardware is a place
32:31where Europe can actually
32:32be leading
32:33because we have
32:34a much stronger
32:34manufacturing ecosystem
32:36compared to the United States
32:37and we do much better
32:38high-precision,
32:39mechanical,
32:39heavy systems
32:40compared to China
32:41still today.
32:42Fusion is the most extreme
32:43of those things
32:43we can do there.
32:44Fantastic.
32:44And maybe a final thought
32:45from me.
32:46We talk a lot about
32:47competitiveness
32:48but competitiveness
32:49and resilience
32:49are really two sides
32:50of the same coin.
32:51If we invest in these areas,
32:53whether it's investors,
32:54whether it's governments,
32:55whether it's citizens,
32:56unless we can really
32:57invest against
32:58and lean into
32:59and take risks
33:00to try and solve
33:00these problems,
33:02we're going to be
33:02less resilient
33:03and less competitive
33:04so there's no excuse
33:05not to go out there,
33:07do the work,
33:07take capital,
33:08put it at risk
33:09and try and build
33:10something
33:10so that we can make
33:12these hats a reality.
33:13Can I have a round of applause
33:15for our panel, please?
33:16There you go, Simon.
33:19Thank you very much.
33:21Thank you very much.
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