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00:00right sal well this is not not that any of this necessarily will be actually but a new topic for
00:06us the three of us together and that's the secondary that's your latest update state of
00:11the bills the safety position um lay it out for for fans here like just how how will it line
00:18up
00:19no taron johnson anymore rap is gone what about you know hairston's status there's a lot to think
00:24about here yeah so i wrote about both corner and safety over the last few days this week so we
00:30could touch on both here and i'll start with outside corner we do have to separate them
00:35outside versus slot you know obviously so i'll start with outside corner i still think you have
00:40three and then who else like there's room for another outside corner on this roster
00:44benford and harrison should walk into training camp as the starters but certainly as we've talked about
00:51i think that igb could give harrison a run for his money if harrison can't stay healthy or they
00:55just really like his game they drafted him because they really like the traits that he brings things
00:59like that i think max harrison also had a really good ota and minicamp from what i saw and i
01:04think
01:04that he's up to this task so let's see that should be a good battle a fun battle nothing wrong
01:09with
01:09having three guys you really like nothing wrong with having an option there and guys are going to
01:12get hurt we know that that's happened so those are the top three and what we can slice and dice
01:16harrison and igb and debate what could happen there and let's see it play out in the field
01:21who's behind them toriano pride a seventh round pick carrie walker an undrafted free agent jordan
01:28dunbar an undrafted free agent they don't have anybody to cory couch who's really more of a slot
01:32but they've used him on the outside and camp he's been with the team a couple years like guys i
01:37just
01:37don't know who that fourth corner is right now and i think you have to dress four corners you know
01:41you generally do you dress four corners outside corners in in games and i think it's really interesting
01:47here and obviously the name tradavius white comes up he's still unsigned they have not given his
01:52number out whether it's tradavius white or someone else i think that they would keep a veteran on
01:57speed dial to ready to call but they'll probably give this seventh round pictorial pride every shot
02:02in the world to see what he does before doing that yeah i mean i wonder like i wonder how
02:08much
02:09positional flexibility i'm just looking at the depth chart and jordan hancock is the name listed
02:14behind d alford so that slot corner i'll bet if he could play outside corner maybe we'd know that
02:19and you'd be mentioning this as a part of this conversation so yeah i wonder about about another
02:25guy i i said earlier sal and i i you you phrased it the way you did talking about hairston
02:30and
02:31igbenezen like i i'm i'm almost bracing for igbenezen to beat him out just because i mean it's it's the
02:38new coaching staff the new system he it seems you know he's their guy they drafted they didn't draft
02:45you know brandon bean did but did not draft maxwell hairston and i just wonder if the writing's already
02:52on the wall there i don't think so i think that i think that maxwell hairston will have every shot
02:59to
03:00maintain that job hold down that job but i absolutely think that as time goes on that could happen
03:05i don't think it's necessarily right away now sure could it yeah i don't think it's something
03:11they're going to just going to hand to igbenezen igb people want to call him just so we know who
03:15we're referring to here i don't think it's not something to hand to him or even nudge him to be
03:20ahead of him i think this is maxwell hairston's job walking in a training camp he's got to lose it
03:25and i think they do like his traits what he has they're not just going to put igb on the
03:29field just
03:29because he's long and has some of these traits he's got to go improve it um i think the biggest
03:35thing with hairston might be the injuries and he's smaller and if he can hold up uh so if we're
03:40having this conversation around halloween thanksgiving i'll give it i i think that could
03:47very well be the case bulldog i'd be a little surprised if it happened right away yeah but
03:51certainly if igb comes in i mean igb reminds me a little bit of like dorian strong who they drafted
03:56last year and unfortunately we know now he's going to miss the season again he's going to be on ir
04:00all
04:01year this really kind of threw the corner long term plan into flux here and i think igb does kind
04:07of give off a lot of what we saw what we felt about dorian strong last year when he was
04:11actually
04:11showing that he could play football and be on the field and have these kinds of traits now it's a
04:15new defense obviously um no jordan hancock can't play outside he's either a slot corner or a safety
04:21um at this point i don't know where they're going to put him i think slot corners where i have
04:25him that's what it's he's going to be i should say but i mean he's it's another year i think
04:29where i just don't see he's going to be on the field that much and you know maybe not even
04:33active
04:33on game day if he makes the roster well there is not only in your words but in your voice
04:39there is
04:39some concern i guess about depth at least in the secondary and the question eventually becomes how
04:48exploitable are they and we don't know that yet that's if the if the rookie's good and the veterans
04:53hold up and are making plays for them like gardner johnson has done in his career then i think you
04:58know you might be fine but one other piece of this is whether the balance between pass defense and
05:05run defense on the bills changes because they've been as we've talked about as well elite against
05:11the pass for almost a decade and against the run maybe was overstated how vulnerable they were or
05:17the importance of that but it you know that wasn't on the same level so i don't know do you
05:21think
05:21philosophically that might change that that might shift yes i i think that i'm gonna say okay nobody's
05:30okay with giving up big plays right but i think if they if they have more big plays made but
05:36more
05:36big plays given up that might be a trade-off they're willing to have versus where sean mcdermott and when
05:43he was the head coach that's just non-negotiable you don't give up big plays you know i mean like
05:47it we would take the trade-off of not giving them up by not by or not in not getting
05:52them
05:53i think this might be a new philosophy of we're going to make big plays you know what that might
05:57come at the expense of giving some up and i think the bills might be okay more okay with that
06:01now than
06:02they have been in the past if that makes sense so i expect that i think that we use the
06:07um we use
06:08the term what high event in in hockey is that what it is high event high event low event yeah
06:12sure
06:12i think we're looking at a high event defense this year i do i think you're gonna look at a
06:17high event
06:17maybe even a high event team where they have josh allen matt bovay and i when we did the pod
06:23last
06:23week we were talking about this very thing and he made a really good point when bradley chubb was
06:30signed we did a zoom call with him bradley chubb from the outside now there's a guy that played for
06:35the miami dolphins against the bills for the last several years so it's his perspective now so it's
06:39really interesting and i think probably should be you know taken for something here he said you
06:44know for the last several years the bills defense was just don't get in the way you know don't don't
06:51get in the way and do what you have to do to let you know josh allen and company do
06:54what they have
06:54to do whereas now he's coming into a situation where they've been told no we're gonna go out and
06:59try and win games too like with that that's on us we got to go make plays we got to
07:02win games well
07:03i think making those plays the trade-off could be that you also give up some plays
07:07yeah you know i really wonder about that we were talking earlier uh here sal really i think at the
07:13open of our show about like with the the defense i like how you put it there like high event
07:18like
07:19maybe with if the defense you know isn't up to snuff they feel they need to pass more to be
07:28in high
07:29event type games and maybe that ends up being the thing that sort of gets them over the hump if
07:34they
07:35lean into josh allen a little bit more instead of trying to sort of lean on the defense play keep
07:41away right run the ball i'm not saying they abandon the run but maybe it's not maybe they're not like
07:47on an island as a run first team in the league maybe they get back to trying to lean into
07:53allen a
07:54little bit more i think you're gonna see those higher bigger plays both positively and negatively
08:01on defense and i also think you're gonna see a spike in josh allen's numbers both positively and
08:06negatively thinking about all this which i agree with you i wouldn't be surprised if josh has some
08:11incredible numbers put up but i also wouldn't be surprised if maybe his turnovers or negative plays
08:16are a little bit more than what we've seen over the last several years again a little bit more high
08:20event like we have josh allen we're gonna go out and win games what did joe brady say joe brady
08:23said
08:23something really interesting and he would never like say you're not gonna say something negative
08:27against shaw mcdermott or something like that but if you really pay attention he kind of gave you a
08:31clue back when he was hired or shortly after that which was he was asked about calling plays and you
08:38know how much freedom did you have shaw mcdermott being the defensive coach you know how much did he
08:42have a say in it and joe basically said paraphrasing hey i i call it's my it was my offense
08:48i called the
08:49plays i wanted to play to to call but certainly what he said was there was definitely more of a
08:57directive when they played better teams with better quarterbacks to not lose the game on defense on
09:03offense excuse me so what does that mean you're kind of raining josh in a little bit you're raining
09:08the offense and be a little more conservative don't don't give them more opportunities don't give
09:12patrick mahomes don't give joe burrow whoever is more opportunities i think that's gone now guys
09:18i don't think joe brady gives a crap honestly i think he's like i have josh allen i'm gonna go
09:22win the game and i'm gonna let jim leonard go in the game on defense and that's why i think
09:25we're in
09:25for a wild ride well i don't hate the sound of it sal capaccio on the western hotline mike show
09:31up in
09:31the bulldog here so um part of this too sal maybe this is more just how jim leonard sees defense
09:39and
09:40now by extension the bills or also it lines up with certain trends in the league you know getting to
09:46a
09:46point where you might want to be better against the run the teams are passing less or less
09:50efficiently at least so um the timing might be good yeah for sure and listen back to your question
09:57mike about how good they've been against the past but they haven't been that good against the run
10:02because that's kind of by design right hey we're not going to get beat over the top we'll we'll let
10:06you bleed for 10 plays because you're going to make a mistake right one one of the things that
10:11happens is when we look at a run defense we think about stopping the run we all do this we
10:16think
10:17about the middle of the field we think about defensive tackle we think about linebacker oh my
10:22god they're so good in the middle actually where the bills really got hurt last year a lot was on
10:25the
10:25edges the bills couldn't stop the run on the edges a lot a lot of that was joey bosa just
10:29being
10:29undisciplined they just didn't do a good enough job of that greg rousseau is a good run defender
10:33this this scheme will even be better for him in the run now he's probably not going to be a
10:38double
10:38digit sack guy but bradley chubb has been very very good against the run and good at getting to
10:43the quarterback most of his career and again not a guy that's going to lead the league in sacks but
10:47he's just been excellent in all areas of that and then they go out and get tj parker who brandon
10:52being compares to bradley chubb like i i think a big big concerted effort this offseason from what
11:00they wanted to do as an organization and what jim leonard wanted to do was say look we are not
11:05we are
11:05going to funnel everything inside we're not going to get beat on the edges and we have dudes who can
11:09still get to the quarterback there it's not like we're neglecting it but we're going to make sure
11:13that if we're when you run on us you're not going to be able to run to the edge and
11:17we're going to
11:18have population in the middle anyway so last year that just didn't happen they got beat on the edges
11:22too much so i think that's part of of this whole thing now the variance part we didn't touch on
11:26but
11:26that was corner i mentioned you guys asked me about secondary i wrote about safety today
11:30clearly bishop and gardner johnson the two starters cj gardner johnson led the league in
11:36interceptions just a few years ago he has i was doing the research today i put a chart on he
11:41has
11:4120 interceptions in his nfl career he is a ball hawk you know what else he is a guy that
11:46gets a
11:47little bit undisciplined on the field sometimes and i'm not talking about the the stuff that we'd oh
11:52they wouldn't want a guy like that on the team he's a risk taker a lot of yeah exactly right
11:57he
11:57vacates his spot right like this is what we're looking at this year but he's gonna start he's
12:02gonna play they want that guy and pairing him with cole bishop who they can move around and he's
12:06exactly what they want and then i'm a little concerned about safety depth as well but honestly
12:11like you have veterans in there demar hamlin geno stone like those guys can step in give you a floor
12:16understand what they're supposed to do and if that's the case and then i really really am super
12:21interested in jalen kilgore because he's really kind of an ultimate chess piece yeah i feel like
12:25kilgore like i i would expect sale i don't know maybe maybe you'll you'll say different here
12:30but you mentioned stone and hamlin i'm guessing there's only room for one of them agreed right
12:37sam franklin's probably making the team he's a safety right who plays special teams but you at
12:41least have him in break classic case of emergency and safety right and but kilgore's the the fourth
12:46guy there i think that's right right that's right i yeah i think yeah third fourth however you want to
12:51clear now look this might open the door for jordan hancock again yeah i think they're gonna have him
12:55they're gonna have him at slot corner it appears behind d alford who's entrenched there i think he's
12:59your starter going in but maybe that's a that's position flexibility to say we know we could keep
13:04jordan hancock and he can also move back there a little bit didn't go great for him last year when
13:08he had to play a little bit but you know didn't go great for cole bishop his rookie year either
13:11and
13:11then look at the ascension last year i like your chart top 20 active interception leaders including
13:17cj gardner johnson with 20 tied for 14 there's bills all over the place here trey white oh right
13:23has 19 rasul douglas stopped by he has 21 jordan poyer has 25 still active and of course darius slay
13:32yeah with 28 tops the former or current bills on this uh on this list harrison smith the active
13:39leader with 39 picks this is a tough i would bomb on this list just and he did and he
13:44we don't know
13:45about his future yet either he hasn't signed with anyone harrison smith yeah i would just bomb on
13:49this list i don't know rod woodson i would say who's active uh i don't know i'm stumped already i
13:58wouldn't have i would be really bad at this one um okay so bill's off for a while obviously you
14:05have
14:05more of these articles coming up or are we almost done i have one more to do that special teams
14:08we
14:09talked about that a little bit last week earlier this week whatever that we know i'm just i'm really
14:13curious about we haven't seen tyler basque right i mean like what does that look like so i'll touch
14:18on that more but you know that's what i'm thinking first of all you know what does that look like
14:23they
14:23get to camp and is he okay and then there's going to be a punting battle i at this point
14:28would expect
14:28the draft pick to win the punting battle but you never know he might show up and not be able
14:33to
14:33handle you know whatever in the nfl that's tommy doman uh mitch wish now ski is on the team and
14:38then
14:39reed ferguson one of the things i was thinking about today guys i went to the 2016 draft now reed
14:45wasn't drafted but he came into the league in 2016 he's the longest tenured bill meaning on the team
14:50for you know longer than anybody consecutively and there's like 50 40 or 50 people still in the league
14:58from the 2016 draft i'm sure there's some that are undrafted free agents but here's reed ferguson
15:03still just doing his thing which is really cool tommy doman seventh round pick one of three
15:08by the bills yeah the punter out of uh out of florida they really liked him i mean they they
15:13did
15:13a yeah i want people to understand like the bills did a lot of research on punters this year like
15:18one thing and it was so funny brad writer keeps saying sal you kept coming on here say they're
15:23drafting a punter and i'm like what are you talking about i'm telling you like i knew for a while
15:26they
15:26were really into punters at the combine they the new stadium is a big deal the new special teams
15:33coordinator like they really went deep on punters this year not like the 81 colts this is so
15:38interesting this is such a nugget to be walking around with like i mean just something i saw you
15:42out and about yesterday and probably people like hey what's what's shaking by the bills are really
15:47doing work on punters i know right is he left-footed remember the left-footed belichick thing for a while
15:54there where nobody sort of realized he was only hiring left-footed punters because the spin is
15:58different and then i don't know did we all do that after he after that got out or we all
16:03realized
16:04it but not like the 81 colts sal they if they oh my god really cared about punters they would
16:09have picked one in the second round like the 81 82 draft the uh the colts that year i don't
16:14think
16:14what times have changed those these punters are such great athletes would be with big legs you don't
16:19need to draft one in the second round even if you want one and like one and whatever these guys
16:23are
16:23just they can do everything this kid actually kicked off when he's at michigan grew up in michigan
16:27played in colder weather like i i'm telling you guys like these things mattered yeah no need to do
16:33that all right thanks for fitting us in today sal all right you got it guys thanks it's our sale
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