- 35 minutes ago
During the bilateral meeting on the sidelines of the G7 Summit in Evian, Prime Minister Narendra Modi and US President Donald Trump discussed the realignment of their strategic partnership.
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00:00Statement from the U.S. President, President Trump says India and the United States could not be closer.
00:06He spoke of his personal rapport and relationship with Prime Minister Narendra Modi,
00:12who he described as a personal friend and a tough negotiator.
00:18He repeatedly complimented Prime Minister Narendra Modi.
00:22But we'll play this entire conversation out.
00:26Key takeaways from this conversation, President Trump claims India and U.S., very close relationship.
00:34When a question was put to him about defence ties, remember there is no defence agreement or a pact between
00:41India and the United States.
00:43But he said words to the effect, if India ever needs our help, we are there to protect India.
00:50Not that India needs America's protection.
00:52But he also added, Gaurav, he said that only if Modi is the leader, if there is someone else, that
01:01would not be the case.
01:02But if Modi is the leader and India is attacked, America will come to help.
01:07Yep. Very interesting points.
01:09Prime Minister Narendra Modi raised the issue of safety of seafarers.
01:13And he said that when it comes to global economy and seafarers, you have hundreds and thousands of Indians, 300
01:22,000 Indians plus across the world, part of the maritime economy.
01:27And their safety is very essential.
01:30Of course, a question was put to President Trump, Gita, on the issue of the three sailors being killed.
01:36And he said he is aware of it.
01:37That's right.
01:38Did not seek control in the soul.
01:39Did not, did not.
01:40But nonetheless, the fact is that they have set the tone and tenor.
01:43This is not coming from a place of negativity because he just kept saying that we could not be closer,
01:50that we are very close, that this is a very important relationship, re-emphasizing that.
01:54So, I suppose now the leaders are meeting and are going to sit for the next 45 minutes.
01:59It's going to be crucial because the tone and tenor of the meeting has already been set.
02:04It does seem like President Trump is on an agenda to set or reset many of the areas where it
02:14looked like ties have been derailed.
02:17Talks have certainly derailed.
02:18But we've seen a positive momentum when it comes to India-U.S. relations and conversations in the recent past.
02:26And again, we see what they do when it comes to action.
02:29There we've seen the Indo-Pact now being called Pacific Command yet again.
02:34So, an icebreaker of sorts.
02:36Yes.
02:36That question was not posed though, Gaurav.
02:38Would have been interesting to hear from the President as to what he has to say on this change or
02:44reversal of the name.
02:45But this is something that he anyway wanted and did not want to continue with the term Indo-Pacific.
02:51Having said that, the entire statement which will be playing out right now for you clearly shows that the two
02:59leaders are intent in ensuring that both sides come out with a positive outcome.
03:05This is the first meeting after February 2025.
03:09So, a very important one.
03:11A lot has happened between February 2025 and now.
03:15And everybody was wondering whether if the C-Pairs issue will be raised by Prime Minister Modi or not.
03:24And that certainly happened.
03:26So, questions, conversations, a lot of focus that Prime Minister Modi gave to the Strait of Hormuz.
03:32Certainly, energy security is going to be a very important part of the conversation.
03:36Listen in to the conversation that the two leaders had with the media and then we will come back and
03:43open up the conversation with our guests.
03:58Mr. President, it's a pleasure to meet you here in Avia.
04:07We had an extremely productive meeting in Washington last year.
04:11And since then, we have given new speed and new energy to our relations.
04:15And we are working together on a number of areas.
04:27And we are also happy that our teams have also been working in close coordination and engagement and they've been
04:36working towards achievement of the targets that we had set for ourselves last year.
04:46Mr. President, I commend you for your leadership on the progress that has been made in the efforts to restore
04:56peace in West Asia.
05:08Mr. President, thanks to your efforts, Mr. President, a new hope for peace and stability in the region has been
05:14rekindled.
05:15And I'm confident that this will lead to a long-standing peace in the region.
05:30Mr. President, you and I agree that keeping the state of Hormuz open is vital for the global economy.
05:36Excellency, we always say that freedom of navigation needs to be realistic and we need to give all of them
05:45to all.
06:06Prane, key takeaway is the Prime Minister raised the issue of seafarers, the killing of seafarers, he raised the issue
06:13of peace in West Asia and the efforts that were being made to bring peace in West Asia and of
06:19course the trade deal, effort to bring the trade deal to a logical conclusion, working with speed towards that.
06:27Absolutely, Prime Minister Nareen Modi very emphatically raised the issue of the seafarers, the West Asia crisis and how it
06:33is causing a lot of concern among the larger seafarer community of India, which is actually the backbone of the
06:40maritime trade.
06:40And in fact, Prime Minister said that, you know, whatever deal is being worked out between Iran and United States,
06:46whatever peace formula President Donald Trump has envisaged for the West Asia, the safety and security and well-being of
06:53the seafaring community need to be ensured.
06:55There, Prime Minister Nareen Modi also appreciated President Donald Trump and his effort about resolving the West Asia crisis.
07:02But when India today asked President Donald Trump that, you know, you say that India has a great friend in
07:09White House to the time he's president, but certain decisions of Trump administration has caused a lot of concern, a
07:15lot of pain in India.
07:17How do you want to assure the people of India and India's leadership to which President Donald Trump responded that
07:23I want to reiterate my commitment about this friendship?
07:26I consider Prime Minister Nareen Modi is a great friend of mine. And in fact, I have a great regard
07:31for people of India.
07:33And in fact, this is my commitment to this relationship.
07:38Right. Pranay, we will be playing out that question and answer. You asked a very important question to President Trump,
07:44and we'll be playing that out in a while from now.
07:46But what is important over here is the fact that Prime Minister Nareen Modi took this opportunity to raise the
07:53issue of seafarers security
07:55at a time when we see a lot of conversation and a lot of debate over Indian sailors having been
08:02killed in action in the active conflict zone off the coast of Oman.
08:08But more importantly, over here, the fact that Rubio's reaction and response to Jaishankar did not really go down well
08:17with many Indians here.
08:18And now Prime Minister Modi raising it at the highest level with President Trump.
08:23Perhaps a joint statement…
08:25Geetha, if you see the statement of President…
08:31Go ahead, Pranay.
08:33Yeah. Geetha was saying that President Donald Trump, in fact, he deplored.
08:37He kind of regretted the action and the sufferings of Indian seafarers, the losses suffered by India in terms of
08:45the loss of three lives.
08:46So, this is a big statement coming from the U.S. presidency, you know, forget about what Marco Rubio said,
08:52but now his boss, U.S. President Donald Trump has said, and while, you know, sitting close to Prime Minister
08:57Nareen Modi at a time when Prime Minister Modi raised this issue very emphatically, President Donald Trump also kind of
09:02agreed.
09:03And he said that, yeah, that was unfortunate that, you know, three of the Indian sailors lost their life.
09:09That is certainly a big indication from the U.S. leadership and this should be seen as a positive indication
09:16from the U.S. presidency and from the U.S. leadership if they are cognizant about India's loss, about India's
09:22sensitivities.
09:24We have Jason Isaacson, Chief Policy and Political Affairs Officer, Analyst of U.S. Political and Strategic Affairs joining us
09:31on this broadcast.
09:32We have Alexander Slater, former Managing Director of the U.S.-India Business Council joining us.
09:38Sushant Sareen, Senior Fellow at the Observer Research Foundation, Ambassador Gurjeet Singh, former Ambassador of India to Germany joining us.
09:45Sandeep Unitan stays with me, with us on this broadcast.
09:49But let's discuss this threadbare, each and every statement made by the Prime Minister and the American President.
09:56And Jason Isaacson, do you see this as an effort from both sides to bring the relationship back on track?
10:03And is this an icebreaker of sorts?
10:06Yeah, of course.
10:07And it's about time because the relationship, which was on a very positive trajectory, frankly, for decades, clearly went off
10:15track over the last year on the immigration issue, on the tariff issue, on various insults, on the warming up
10:23to terrorist-supporting country on your north.
10:27The fact that the President recognizes that it was important to get this relationship back on a very solid footing
10:33was really significant.
10:34And frankly, the gracious response of the Prime Minister was very important.
10:38Okay.
10:39If I could bring Sushant Sareen in as well.
10:42Sushant, a very positive note when it comes to the conversations that we heard.
10:47President Trump saying that if Modi remains the leader and India is ever attacked, he will come to help if
10:55India needs it, although India does not really need it, but if India needs it.
10:59Having said that, he also mentioned the eight wars.
11:03He also continues to maintain that he brokered peace between India and Pakistan during Operation Sindhu.
11:12So, Gita, quite clear.
11:13We have that problem with our President.
11:16But he feels very strongly that he made peace between India and Pakistan.
11:21And whatever the facts are, it's important that we recognize that that's his reality.
11:27Okay.
11:27Sushant, would you like to weigh in?
11:29Yeah.
11:30The problem is that Donald Trump lives in an alternate reality.
11:34And that's not necessarily the reality of the world, really.
11:39So, he thinks that he has won the war in Iran.
11:42When very clearly, it's almost like Germany signing the Treaty of Versailles against, you know, the other powers.
11:52That's what is the status of America, because they seem to have conceded everything.
11:56So, that's Donald Trump.
11:57But frankly, you know, I am a little skeptical about whether the relationship is going to be back on an
12:04even keel, in a sense that the relationship is not totally shot down.
12:10There is an economic dimension which remains, although Donald Trump has tried his best to destroy the economic relationship as
12:17well, with tariffs and with all kinds of other measures that he has taken.
12:21I think the strategic aspect is very, very questionable now.
12:25We've seen one indication of that, with simple name change from Indopacom, which Indopacom actually signified the importance of India
12:37in that entire strategy, but that has gone.
12:39And I think we are better off for it, because we don't want to become America's agents for doing things.
12:48We should have our own agency.
12:51But I think the strategic relationship has also taken a hit, because there is now a lot more distrust and
12:58mistrust of the United States and its intentions.
13:01And the fact that the US does not want a partnership, what it wants is the client status for other
13:07countries.
13:08The Europeans are very ready to concede that client status, although I think there's some stirrings in Europe as well.
13:15I am not quite sure how well that client status will sell in India.
13:20So, I think we really need to re-examine the strategic dimensions of this relationship.
13:25Stay with me for a moment, Sushant.
13:27You know, my colleague Pranay Upadhyay put that question to President Trump, because there is tremendous anger in India, the
13:35manner in which America has treated India in the past one year.
13:39Listen to his question and the President's answer.
13:42President Trump, you said many a times that India has a great friend in the United States, in Washington, D
13:47.C., in White House, till the time you are President.
13:50But some of your decisions recently caused trouble, concern in India.
13:54How would you like to assure people of India, the leader of India?
13:58Well, I said, as long as I'm President, we have a great, they have a great friend in the White
14:03House.
14:04I don't know where there might have been trouble, but I don't think so.
14:07I can tell you everyone here, they love India.
14:10They have tremendous respect for this man.
14:12President Trump, you said many a times that India has a great friend in the United States, in Washington, D
14:17.C., in White House, till the time you are President.
14:20But some of your decisions recently caused trouble, concern in India.
14:24How would you like to assure people of India, the leader of India?
14:28Well, I said, as long as I'm President, we have a great, they have a great friend in the White
14:33House.
14:34I don't know where there might have been trouble, but I don't think so.
14:37I can tell you everyone here, they love India.
14:40They have tremendous respect for this man.
14:43President Trump, you said many a times that India has a great friend in the United States, in Washington, D
14:47.C., in White House, till the time you are President.
14:50But some of your decisions recently caused trouble, concern in India.
14:54How would you like to assure people of India, the leader of India?
14:58Well, I said, as long as I'm President, we have a great, they have a great friend in the White
15:03House.
15:04I don't know where there might have been trouble, but I don't think so.
15:07I can tell you everyone here, they love India.
15:10They have tremendous respect for this man.
15:13As long as I am in the White House, you have a friend here.
15:17Is that actually the case, especially given the rollercoaster ride this relationship has seen in the past 16 months?
15:24Alexander Slater, also with us on this broadcast, Ambassador Gurjeet Singh, former Ambassador to Germany with us, Ambassador.
15:33Do you look at this as, you know, Trump being a friend of India in the White House, given his
15:41actions in the past 16 months?
15:44So, I think today's meeting needs to be separated from what actions will ensue or have ensued.
15:51It was an upbeat meeting between the two leaders, each praising the other for whatever they do.
15:58Secondly, I think President Trump made it clear that love is never having to say you are sorry.
16:05So, I think that was very clear.
16:07No, sorry, but I love you, I love you, I love you.
16:10I think that's where you are.
16:11Now, if you look at this meeting, it seems to be setting the bilateral relationship back on track.
16:23However, what will happen behind closed doors, and as Mr. Sareen pointed out, what will happen subsequently in the relationship?
16:32There is no guarantee that what has been said from the White House before will not be said again, or
16:39what Truth Social has said will not be done again, and what claims were made against India will not be
16:46claimed.
16:46There is no guarantee.
16:47But the mood of this meeting is upbeat.
16:51President Trump, at no instance, turned his back on Prime Minister Modi like he did with Zelensky.
16:58At no time did Prime Minister Modi wag a finger at President Trump like Melanie did.
17:04So, I think they have both played out a script, which is to show that we are on even keel.
17:13I understand that the keel is not even, but then that is because there is no hug.
17:18That is evidence of that.
17:19But then there is not much mutual oral back slapping, which is a new thing to an extent.
17:26I think they went beyond what has been said in the past.
17:29Now, if you look at the relationship, I think you are right.
17:32The strategic cleavage is not likely to be repaired.
17:37I don't think domestic American opinion is going to come back on issues which are of interest to India and
17:45Indians.
17:46So, therefore, these are contradictions which are getting frozen in time and will cause pain to the relationship unless we
17:55revaluate.
17:56He said good things about the Hormuz Strait and about nodding his head about the rule of law in the
18:04oceans.
18:06He also nodded his head about, you know, the defense relationship, taking it beyond, saying, you know, so long as
18:13Prime Minister is there, I will always come to support him.
18:19But I think issues like trade, critical minerals, supply chains, protection is not out in the open.
18:28That will probably be discussed in the closed-door meeting, and we won't hear of it.
18:34But apart from the regional and global issues, the bilateral that really matters, and in that, Alexander Slater, if I
18:40could bring you in, trade talks and conversations of the trade front is something that's really important.
18:46India and America have had a very difficult time in the past few months.
18:50Do you think, this is not a structured meeting, but do you think there will be some forward movement when
18:55it comes to trade between India and the U.S.
18:58in this conversation that the two leaders are having?
19:03My expectation is that the trade issue will certainly come up between the two leaders.
19:08It just seems that it's a difficult time right now for either one to announce progress on that front.
19:13I know recently the President of the United States has announced that the investigation into forced labor practices abroad,
19:21which he's using to level additional tariffs on countries, has included India.
19:27India in its remit, and therefore, he seems to be in a position to add pressure to India in that
19:34area.
19:34And of course, the challenges that have happened in the Strait of Hormuz over the last week,
19:39with the deaths, the tragic deaths of multiple Indian sailors,
19:43has made it difficult for Prime Minister Modi to look like he's making any concessions to the President at this
19:49time.
19:49And so, I think on the trade front, while I, again, they'd like to discuss it,
19:54I'm not confident that there'll be any significant movement in the near future.
20:00You don't think there'll be movement on the trade front in the near future?
20:05Because, Sandeep, in India, now they don't go by what President Trump says,
20:10they go by what is the action on ground.
20:13And if the action on ground is not positive, for example, on the trade front,
20:17then this relationship is going nowhere.
20:19Absolutely, Gaurav.
20:20And, you know, while this meeting is significant, it's an icebreaker.
20:23As I say, you know, a week is a long time in geopolitics.
20:2864 weeks, which is the time that Prime Minister Modi and President Trump have been met,
20:33is an eternity.
20:34So, it's really important.
20:35This meeting really sets the pace for what we'll see in the next couple of months.
20:39It's an icebreaker of sorts.
20:40But, given what we've seen in the last 64 weeks, Gaurav,
20:45this is something that we will look at very carefully.
20:48We will weigh President Trump on his actions and not on his words.
20:52He's been really nice to Prime Minister Modi.
20:54He said all the best, right things.
20:56He's, you know, harked back to that wonderful phase of the relationship during his first term.
21:00All of that is good.
21:01But, finally, at the end of the day, Gaurav,
21:04there are so many inconsistencies in what we've seen in these 16 months.
21:08We need to see action on the ground.
21:11And I think Prime Minister Modi was right in pointing out the fact that there are certain pain points
21:16which he cannot keep out of the room.
21:18The fact that Indian seafarers have been killed.
21:21Indian seafarers are something like 9% of the global seafaring community.
21:24And he used that line very carefully when he mentioned that, you know,
21:29the freedom of navigation was very important.
21:32Thereby, talking about the fact that the United States had imposed,
21:36unilaterally imposed a blockade, blocking not just, you know, our freedom of passage,
21:42but also our energy supplies causing great pain to the rest of the world, Gaurav.
21:47Right.
21:47There are a few important highlights from the conversation.
21:50We'll take that.
21:50But before that, if I could go to Jason.
21:52Jason, how is the American Jewish community looking at what President Trump has done in West Asia,
21:59what you call the Middle East, that has caused great energy shock,
22:03not just globally, but particularly to the region and to India?
22:08Look, everyone wants, from our community, from the United States, from India, from everywhere,
22:13to have the Strait of Humbu is opened,
22:15to have that crisis that has been imposed over the last three and a half months eased,
22:20and to move into a better situation.
22:22At the same time, there is a great deal of concern about the direction the negotiations will take,
22:28and we will know more when we actually see the text of the Memorandum of Understanding.
22:32There's been a lot of reporting about that,
22:34and a lot of that reporting leaves a lot of us very concerned that it's kind of a giveaway to
22:39the Iranians.
22:40I'm hopeful that some of the elements of that MOU that we've seen,
22:44at least the version that has been published in the last 24 hours,
22:48are false or misleading,
22:50and that the United States would not agree to an arrangement with Iran
22:55in which they get hundreds of billions of dollars for reconstruction,
23:00and somehow Israel is constrained from responding to attacks from Hezbollah.
23:07None of that should be in the final agreement.
23:09Let's see.
23:10But in the meantime, there is, of course, universal agreement
23:13that the Strait of Humbu needs to be opened,
23:15but we need to get to the real issues that underlie why this campaign,
23:20this military campaign, was initiated,
23:21and that was to make sure that Iran is no longer threatening its neighbors.
23:24So, President Trump responded to Prime Minister Narendra Modi
23:31and then Indian journalists asking him about the death of three Indian seafarers.
23:37President Trump, of course, said it's a rough profession.
23:39It's been happening.
23:41We'll work together.
23:43The Prime Minister raised the issue of the Indian seafarers.
23:46They're about 9% of the global seafaring community,
23:50300,000 Indian seafarers working across the globe,
23:55a large number in the Strait of Humbu's listeners.
24:04I heard about that.
24:06It's a rough profession.
24:08There's no question about it.
24:10And we work together on it.
24:12This has been happening throughout time,
24:14but we work together on it.
24:16Yeah, certainly.
24:17We love all of those people.
24:18They're great people.
24:19I heard about that.
24:22I heard about that.
24:24It's a rough profession.
24:26There's no question about it.
24:28And we work together on it.
24:30This has been happening throughout time,
24:32but we work together on it.
24:34Yeah, certainly.
24:35We love all of those people.
24:37I heard about that.
24:38It's a rough profession.
24:41There's no question about it.
24:43And we work together on it.
24:45This has been happening throughout time,
24:47but we work together on it.
24:49Yeah, certainly. We love all of those people. They're great people.
24:52But there is also a tragic loss of lives of Indian sailors.
24:58Prade, the Prime Minister raised the issue.
25:02The journalists there, they raised the issue.
25:04You raised the issue.
25:05And the American president responded.
25:07But no regret, no apology.
25:10Just the fact that, yes, we will work on that.
25:15No, but I think if I heard him rightly, you know, Gaurav, he said that that was unfortunate.
25:21And certainly, you know, President Donald Trump kind of said in the way that, you know, he called it unfortunate.
25:29And he said that we do not want this kind of, you know, such kind of incident.
25:34That was his sentiment, I think.
25:35And Prime Minister Narendra Modi very emphatically raised this issue in the presence of President Donald Trump.
25:40And like, you know, in multiple locations, Prime Minister underscored the fact that whatever peace formula is being worked out
25:46by the U.S. President Donald Trump,
25:49as far as the West Asia crisis is concerned, as far as the U.S.-Iran dean is concerned,
25:53the utmost, the issue of utmost importance is about the safety and security of those who are traveling in that
25:59area,
25:59those who are actually keeping those sea lanes of communication active,
26:03those who are actually playing as the backbone of the maritime trade.
26:07And that is the seafaring community that are the crew members of those commercial shipping lanes.
26:12And that was actually, you know, the reflection of the sentiment or mood in India.
26:17Prime Minister Narendra Modi only conveyed that sentiment,
26:20what every Indian felt after the death of these three civilians,
26:24three merchant navy people, those three seafarers.
26:28And in fact, the kind of reaction which came from U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio.
26:34Oh, absolutely. Let's listen in to Prime Minister Narendra Modi raising that issue
26:38and then we'll bring in our guest Sangeetha on this.
26:41Listen in to the Prime Minister.
26:42Thank you very much.
27:39Thank you very much.
27:46Mr. Mr. President, you are aware, across the world, Indian seafarers in hundreds of thousands
27:53are working and they're performing their duties across global maritime trade routes,
27:58including the state of Formos, and their safety is of utmost importance to us.
28:14Mr. Mr. President, you've made tremendous efforts towards reaching this understanding and this
28:21agreement, and I'm confident that the issue of seafarers will receive the highest priority
28:25during the implementation of this agreement.
28:27Mr. President, once again, I deeply appreciate and I deeply commend your efforts in ensuring
28:46the restoration of peace and making efforts towards restoration of peace and stability in West Asia.
28:55I want to bring in Ambassador Gurjeet Singh into this conversation.
28:59Ambassador, your reading of the Prime Minister raising the issue and the President's response
29:05to the question of a journalist. Is that satisfactory in your view, sir?
29:12Thank you. So, I think the Prime Minister raising this issue at the summit level with President Trump
29:19is more than satisfactory. I think it is laudatory, laudable. We must praise Prime Minister Modi
29:25for taking up the issue of Indian seafarers and their protection with Prime Minister Trump, President Trump.
29:33President Trump's response was a bit offhandish. I heard about it. It's a rough profession.
29:40We will work on it.
29:42Well, as I said, love is never having to say you're sorry. So, he wasn't saying sorry. You're just saying
29:48I love you
29:49and we will see. But there is no guarantee it won't happen again.
29:53If the Americans believe that some ship is running illegal oil anywhere or breaking the blockade,
30:04which is still on right now, they will gun for that ship. And whether that ship has Indian sailors or
30:11not,
30:12I don't think is a matter of great concern to them. And on that, we need to be clear.
30:16So, this incident, this raising the issue, very pertinent. The response, not so satisfactory. That is my take.
30:27Leaves much to be desired is your take. Sushant Sareen, is that how you read this?
30:35Yeah, look, very clearly, what he was saying in American speak was just too bad it happened. Deal with it.
30:44Don't expect me to say sorry. Don't expect me to express any regret over what happened.
30:50It's a rough profession. You know, this kind of stuff happens. Just too bad for you.
30:56And as for your correspondence question about India being friends with the United States,
31:03you know, the Kissinger line comes to mind when Trump says that we have a friend in White House,
31:11the Kissinger line that it's positively fatal to be America's friend comes to mind.
31:16Because as a friend of India, he has bullied us. He has imposed tariffs on us when he did not
31:25dare to do it against Chinese.
31:27And frankly, I think, Gaurav, it's about time we realized that there has been a reset in the relationship between
31:35India and the United States.
31:36This reset is not of the positive kind. It's of a somewhat negative kind.
31:42And if we want to close our eyes to this reality, we are free to do it.
31:48But I think there are enough indications coming from the United States that, yes, they don't want to break the
31:53relationship.
31:54But what the relationship was maybe four years, five years back, and for the last 20 odd years, that thing
32:02is gone.
32:02It's gone. It's been totally reset. And we have to recognize that reality for what it is.
32:08If we want to close our eyes to it, that's our problem. That's not an American problem.
32:13Let me get Mr. Slater to give us the American, you know, take on this.
32:17Is that also your take on this? That this relationship has now undergone a reset?
32:24And that reset is not that the relationship is on an upward trajectory.
32:29The aim is only to cut the losses as long as Trump is in the White House.
32:34It's just that, you know, you just don't want the relationship to slide.
32:40I think the, I guess I would disagree with Shushan's conclusion that this is a reset dating back to four
32:48years ago.
32:48I do think that the terms have changed since President Trump became, came to the Oval Office.
32:55And I was in India from 2019 to 2024, working in New Delhi alongside folks from the Modi government and
33:02the Biden administration,
33:03and initially the Trump administration as well, to promote U.S.-India trade and strategic affairs.
33:09And I thought the cooperation was on a dramatic upward trajectory, ever closer, and it had bipartisan support.
33:16You know, the U.S. foreign policy community is a diverse one.
33:20Of course, the executive branch and therefore the president has an inordinate amount of power constitutionally.
33:25But lots of other parts of the government participate in foreign policy decision-making, including the U.S. Congress, including
33:34the U.S. commercial community informally.
33:36And all of those parts of the United States constituents who participate in foreign policy development are quite pro-India.
33:44And so I think everyone who is involved in this critically important relationship, something that President Biden called the most
33:52consequential relationship, bilateral relationship of the 21st century, get that this is really important.
33:59And many of them are quite positive on India, want a closer, warmer relationship with India.
34:04And what we're dealing with now is a different approach to foreign policy that we see from a second Trump
34:10administration.
34:11And I don't think that's unique to India, unfortunately.
34:14Many other countries are also dealing with this.
34:16Imagine, of course, India has had terrible issues related to the Strait of Hormuz and energy accessibility.
34:21But I think it's worse for the Europeans, frankly, than it is for India, or at least as bad.
34:25That's true.
34:26And so everybody is struggling with this.
34:28And, of course, I would, again, just iterate that my sense is that the Modi administration understands this.
34:34They're trying to wait out the Trump administration and that they get that there's actually strong support for closer U
34:40.S.-India ties, both commercially and strategically, throughout Washington.
34:44But I'd like to go to our guest.
34:46But before that, Praneh still is with us and he's joined us back from France.
34:50So, Praneh, coming to you, we've seen that the stone antenna has been set when it comes to the conversation.
34:56It's underway right now.
34:58It does seem like the conflicts and Strait of Hormuz would ride the agenda.
35:03But the Indian diaspora and many over here, students who want to go and study in the United States of
35:08America, have also been looking at this meeting and watching this space very closely.
35:14How much do you think would the focus be on the concerns that India has with regards to H-1B
35:20visa policy, change in that, green card, immigration, and students' visas?
35:27Geetha, as you and Gaurav have been discussing this issue, along with our experts, that every statement of President Donald
35:33Trump will be ultimately evaluated on the actions on ground.
35:38And we are yet to see, because the current political dimension and current political priorities of President Donald Trump clearly
35:45does not make him giving any big concession as far as the H-1B visas are concerned, or being more
35:51accommodative as far as the immigration policies are concerned.
35:53But yes, he did say that we certainly want to welcome more skilled professionals from India, at least he said,
36:00in terms of a statement.
36:02But we have to see, because he is approaching toward a mid-term election.
36:06And let me also tell you that, as they say in Hindi, the picture is still, because President Donald Trump
36:11is soon likely to address a bigger press conference,
36:15because this presser was on the sidelines of his meeting with Prime Minister Nareen Modi.
36:19But after the conclusion of his G7 interaction, President Donald Trump is scheduled to address a wider press conference,
36:26where he is likely to answer more questions regarding Iran deal, regarding other issues.
36:32And in fact, we are hoping to get another question in that presser as well. So, let's hope so.
36:37Well, wish you all the best. I am sure you will get a question in.
36:40You know, this Bonhomi that was on display, the relationship has been frosty since the imposition of the tariffs,
36:49and then the punitive tariffs, and then the uncharitable comments on post-operation Sindhur,
36:54and then saying that, you know, U.S. has lost India to Russia and China, or words to that effect.
37:00There was almost a 180-degree turn from that to what President Trump said just a short while back.
37:08I want you to listen to his comments about Prime Minister Nareen Modi, and then we'll decode that.
37:17I want you to listen to his comments.
37:17Very close. We've been there for a little while, and he's a very tough negotiator.
37:22He's one of the toughest, actually.
37:24So, you look at this man. I'll give you a lesson.
37:27He's the most beautiful-looking man. He looks so nice. He's like an angel.
37:31But actually, he's as tough as they come. But he looks so good. So he gets you by surprise.
37:42But there's few people like this. People say, he's such a nice man.
37:46I said, no, he's very tough. He's a tough negotiator, and he loves the Indian people, but he also loves
37:53the U.S.
37:53We had howdy-mody in Houston, remember? And the stadium was full.
37:59Right? Remember that?
38:00He didn't know a state trump in India.
38:02That was great. And we'll be going to India sometime in the future.
38:06Very close. We've been there for a little while, and he's a very tough negotiator. He's one of the toughest,
38:12actually.
38:14So, you look at this man. I'll give you a lesson.
38:16He's the most beautiful-looking man. He looks so nice. He's like an angel.
38:20But actually, he's as tough as they come. But he looks so good. So he gets you by surprise.
38:31But there's few people like this. People say, he's such a nice man.
38:35I said, no, he's very tough. He's a tough negotiator, and he loves the Indian people, but he also loves
38:42the U.S.
38:43And we had howdy-mody in Houston, remember? And the stadium was full.
38:47Remember the Trump. He didn't know a state trump in India.
38:52That was great. Then we'll be going to India.
38:57Well, he's a beautiful man, and he looks like an angel. Jason Wayne.
39:04You really want me to say something about that?
39:05Yes. The fact that...
39:07I'm very proud of the fact that our president has excellent taste in men, and also that he's a beautiful
39:15man himself.
39:16Okay. But on a more important substantive note, Jason, we're looking at conversations, and we've been saying this all along.
39:25So Sushant put it very rightly. These are all words and flattery.
39:28But at the end of the day, when it comes to deliverables and delivery, do you think U.S. and
39:35India are on a reset mode?
39:38Do you think they're resetting ties, or is this just yet another meeting where good words are exchanged, and at
39:45the end of the meeting, the outcome will show nothing?
39:47I think there's clear recognition on the part of the president that it was important to get this relationship back
39:52on track.
39:53It has clearly deviated from the trajectory that we've been on.
39:56I also want to pick up on what Mr. Slater said earlier.
39:59It isn't only the White House. It isn't only the president who sets American policy.
40:05Obviously, a hugely important function, but not the only actor in this process.
40:09There is the Congress, where there's strong support for India.
40:12There is the American public.
40:14There is the Indian-American community, with which my organization, the American Jewish Committee, has been in a long-term
40:19partnership with.
40:21And they are an important base of support for the U.S.-India relationship.
40:24And there's the business community, and there is the professional community in the United States.
40:28So India has a lot of assets in the United States, and I'm confident that we'll continue to work with
40:33those assets to make sure that this relationship,
40:35which is so important to both of our countries, stays on a positive track.
40:39And yet, while I completely agree with all the points you raise, Ambassador Gurjeet saying,
40:44there's so much support for India across America, and yet you had 25% tariff and then 25% punitive
40:51tariffs,
40:52and then President Trump saying, I've lost India to the dark side, to Russia and China, or words to that
40:58effect.
40:59And the relationship has been going downhill ever since.
41:02He didn't come to India for the Quad Summit.
41:04But there's no clarity, while he did indicate that he will come to India, but there's no clarity, when will
41:09that Quad Summit happen?
41:11Is this relationship, instead of being strategic, now merely transactional?
41:17So I think one result of this meeting and its upbeat mood is perhaps that other United States interlocutors would
41:31also soften their tone.
41:33I'm not saying they will soften their stance, but their tone.
41:37So maybe you will not hear as many rough things said, or in a tone which is offensive, after this
41:44meeting, I hope.
41:46Secondly, you asked me about Quad.
41:49I did not get the impression, even after the Rubio visit, that a Quad meeting at the summit level was
41:57going to happen, either in India or elsewhere.
42:01And I think Mr. Sareen has pointed out how the Indo-Pacific command has been renamed.
42:07That is obviously a concession to China, who doesn't like the Indo-Pacific term and says, see, we are not
42:14against you.
42:15And finally, coming to the strategic reset over the last 16 months.
42:20I think whatever may have happened bilaterally between India and the United States, it is evident that some negotiations can
42:30happen.
42:30But if some things are being done with a big brush across countries, India is not going to get any
42:38exception to that.
42:39Whether it is 301 trade tariff, whatever, you know, it's not going to get out.
42:44Secondly, on the strategic, broader strategic part, Trump's attitude to China has changed in term two, as it has to
42:54Pakistan.
42:55Now, those definitely impact us, whether he is trying to tell us a story or not, but they both impact
43:04us.
43:05So, I think that is where, when he, Mr. Sareen said, there is a reset, I think it comes from
43:12there.
43:12The other things can still be negotiated.
43:16You can't negotiate the American attitude to Pakistan and China.
43:20Oh, absolutely.
43:21And Sushant Sareen, one of our red lines would be in case military hardware is sold to Pakistan,
43:28in case there is intelligence cooperation or enhanced military to military cooperation between the U.S. and Pakistan.
43:35Would that be one of India's red lines being crossed?
43:39You know, Gaurav, in some ways, India's red lines were crossed by the American CENTCOM,
43:44even during Operation Sindhur, because there is a sense among the strategic community,
43:49and I'm talking about official strategic community, not people like us,
43:53that the Americans were feeding information to the Pakistanis, which was helping the Pakistanis.
43:59So, that's not what friends do.
44:00That's not what allies do.
44:02That's not what partners do.
44:03So, clearly, that reset has taken place.
44:06And like I said, we can shut our eyes to this reality.
44:10Look, people are saying that this is a Trump phenomenon.
44:13What if a Vance, who is as unhinged as Trump is, or a Rubio, becomes president in the next term?
44:20What happens then?
44:21Then, will we say we'll wait for another four years before we, you know, the relationship comes back on track?
44:27Second, there is a certain consistency in a policy when you have any kind of a relationship.
44:35Now, if a policy is going to change from administration to administration,
44:39then what is the certainty of that relationship?
44:42And finally, I have nothing against transactionalism.
44:45I think all international relations are transactional.
44:48And I don't know why transactionalism is seen as a bad word.
44:52But if that transactionalism is of the sorts which we are witnessing today,
44:58then I think that is not even transactionalism.
45:02That is something completely different.
45:03It's not transaction, it's more of leverage and blackmail.
45:07That you're using your leverage against a country.
45:12And that certainly is not acceptable.
45:15Transactional is just a positive way of putting things.
45:19But what they're trying to do is blackmail India.
45:21I just wanted to ask you on this itself, Sushant.
45:24The fact that, is it time now to lower expectations when it comes to America?
45:29And in hindsight, did we put too many of our eggs in the American basket?
45:34No, I think, look, frankly speaking, it would have been ideal if the relationship with America
45:39was to continue on the path it was on.
45:44I think we would all have been happier for it.
45:47But that is not to be.
45:49Now, in any relationship, both sides have to take a call.
45:52And I think the Americans have taken their call.
45:55Now, it's up to us.
45:56Whether we want to keep looking up to them and seeking their indulgence.
46:00Or we'll say, okay, fine.
46:01We'll deal with them at the level at which we are comfortable with.
46:05But we'll explore certain other options, which we will have to do.
46:10Mr. Slater, is that also your reading that this relationship…
46:15The last two minutes that we have on this part of the show, Mr. Slater,
46:18that this relationship is now reset under Trump.
46:22It's more blackmail, more leverage.
46:24And there's hardly, you know, whether it's Pakistan or China, America has chosen its friends.
46:31I would suggest that the Trump administration has its own approach to foreign policy
46:35that is different than in the past.
46:37And I wouldn't say that India is uniquely targeted in that approach.
46:41I think many allies of the United States are feeling the new approach to foreign policy
46:47under the Trump administration, the second Trump administration.
46:50And its approach to foreign policy is different than its approach was under the first Trump presidency.
46:55And so, again, I want to make clear here that I don't think India is being targeted
47:00specifically compared to other countries.
47:02I think all countries are struggling with this new approach under Trump.
47:06Secondly, I would point out that the president's approval ratings are very low right now.
47:11And there's a lot of anxiety in the Republican Party about decisions that he's been making.
47:17You've been seeing a lot of pushback from senators in the Republican caucus about some appointments
47:23that he's made and about some legislative or at least executive decisions that he's made
47:29because of that unpopularity.
47:33And so, again, every year in India, right, there are state-level elections that are used as proxies
47:40for how popular the government in Delhi is.
47:43And the BJP, of course, has done very well since the last federal election in many of those elections.
47:49And so we'll be looking towards the midterms coming up in November as a sort of referendum
47:54by the American people on what the Trump administration has been doing.
47:58And there's a lot of anxiety right now among Republicans about the outcome of what those elections will be.
48:03And therefore, when you look at a Vance administration, a possible Vance administration,
48:08you want to be looking at all of these steps before that federal election
48:13and what they suggest the American people think of the impact of what President Trump is doing.
48:20I think that the American people really are looking at impact here,
48:23much like the Indian people look at impact.
48:25And their view is that it's not been positive.
48:28Okay.
48:29So, Sandeep, that is why, one, multipolarity and India continuing to diversify,
48:33one, energy and weapons procurement, including from Russia, becomes extremely important.
48:40Absolutely, Gaurav.
48:41We are not going to put all our eggs in the American basket.
48:44That much is very clear.
48:45So, while Russia is our go-to partner for strategic platforms which no other country will sell us,
48:51we are not going to go to America for fighter jets and certainly not for missile systems.
48:55We have chosen Europe as the United States plus one option for us.
49:01So, while we have got a lot of legacy hardware from the United States,
49:04the new fighter jets, the new submarines, they are all coming from Europe.
49:09And these are some of the biggest deals that we have seen possibly between India
49:12and two European countries, France and Germany.
49:15So, I think we have had a bit of a recheck in the last 64 weeks
49:20since Prime Minister Modi has not met President Trump.
49:24A lot of water has flown under the Ganges and surely under the Potomac as well.
49:29We are looking at the Trump administration, post the Trump administration,
49:34because we believe that the India-US relationship, as I have been saying, Gaurav,
49:37is far too important to hang on just that one person, President Trump,
49:42however important he may think he is.
49:45We are looking at the future.
49:47We are looking at possibly the fifth American president that Prime Minister Modi will see
49:51on the 20th of Jan 2029, Gaurav.
49:55Absolutely.
49:55More than 25 years of investment post the Pokhran tests of 1998.
50:01What will it lead to?
50:03We have had sweet words from the United States of America.
50:06Will they be followed by sweet action that puts India first,
50:11especially when President Trump believes in America first?
50:14That's a story we will be tracking very closely.
50:15I want to thank all our guests.
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