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This edition of India First focusses on the G7 summit in France and the first meeting between Prime Minister Narendra Modi and US President Donald Trump in sixteen months.
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00:01Hello and welcome to an India Today special broadcast. I'm Gaurav Savant.
00:05The image that is making the headlines across the country, if not the world.
00:11The first handshake in 16 months of a rollercoaster relationship between India and the United States of America.
00:19The image on your television screen, this is the G7 Leaders Roundtable in France.
00:24So Prime Minister of India, Narendra Modi, and the US President Donald Trump, they seated next to each other.
00:30They initially shared the stage during the traditional G7 family photograph.
00:36There was no conversation there.
00:38The French President Emmanuel Macron, the host, he was at the center.
00:42The American President Donald Trump on one side and the Indian Prime Minister on the other side.
00:47Flanked by other G7 and G7 outreach country leaders.
00:51But no handshake, no conversation during that family picture.
00:55Then they walked into the room here.
00:58At the Leaders Roundtable, the US President came in and sat down first.
01:01Prime Minister Narendra Modi came in moments later.
01:04As you see in those images, he was talking to the World Bank Chief, Ajay Banga.
01:08And then, that very firm handshake and no hug.
01:13The relationship has seen rather turbulent times in the past 16 months.
01:1816 months earlier, Prime Minister Narendra Modi was amongst the first of the bloc when he went to the United
01:23States of America.
01:24In February, after the January 20th swearing in or inauguration of the American President, Donald Trump, there was a compact.
01:34There were three parts to it.
01:36And the hope was, there would be an early trade deal between India and the United States of America.
01:42The high-end technology partnership and the defense partnership, they were the other two legs of this compact.
01:49But, soon after, 25% tariffs were imposed on India.
01:54And another 25% punitive tariffs were added.
01:59Now, the additional 25% punitive tariff was imposed for buying Russian oil.
02:03The American President did not put that additional 25% on China, which is the largest procurer of Russian oil.
02:11But then there are multiple other issues in this relationship.
02:14Especially more in these past 16 months, from the H-1B visas to U.S. falsely claiming, or the U
02:21.S. president falsely claiming to have brokered a ceasefire between India and Pakistan during Operation Sindhu,
02:27to putting the Quad Summit on the back burner.
02:30And this rather unapologetic U.S. response to the killing of three Indian sailors, non-combatants, civilians, on board a
02:38merchant vessel.
02:39So, there are multiple minefields that this relationship now has to negotiate.
02:45But there is tremendous promise too.
02:48If both car parties continue to invest in this relationship, India has been investing.
02:54Will America invest as much?
02:57The images that you see on your television screen, they come just a day before.
03:01Prime Minister Narendra Modi and the American President are scheduled to hold that one-on-one meeting on the sidelines
03:06of the G7 summit.
03:08But the timing couldn't be more significant.
03:11India and the United States of America, they're close to finalizing the first tranche of the trade agreement.
03:17A deal that could reshape economic ties between the world's largest and the oldest democracies.
03:25The largest, the fastest growing large economy.
03:28And of course, the largest economy of the world.
03:31But trade is only one part of the story.
03:33The two leaders, while they continue to share strong personal equation,
03:38President Trump has repeatedly described Prime Minister Narendra Modi as a dear friend, a close friend, as one of the
03:44world's great leaders.
03:46But then, how does that relationship translate into better ties between the people of the two countries,
03:53for the betterment of the ties between two countries?
03:57Because behind this public warmth lies the relationship that's encountered significant turbulence in the past 16 months.
04:04And one of the biggest disagreements has been over Operation Sindur and the subsequent ceasefire.
04:10India insists that ceasefire happened because Pakistan shot a ceasefire.
04:16President Trump continues to insist that he deserves a Nobel Prize because he brokered a ceasefire.
04:22President Trump has repeatedly claimed the United States played a significant role in bringing about a de-escalation.
04:29And India is very clear there is no third-party mediation between India and a state sponsor of radical Islamist
04:35terror, Pakistan.
04:37India firmly rejected any suggestion of third-party mediation.
04:41All decisions were taken bilaterally after Pakistan shot a ceasefire.
04:46Trade, like we mentioned, remains a major niggle or a major sticking point between the two relationships.
04:51They're working towards the first tranche of an agreement.
04:55But differences persist over tariff, market access, contours of the final deal.
05:01U.S. is seeking greater access for its agricultural and dairy products in Indian markets.
05:05And India has made it very clear that there is no way, either directly or indirectly,
05:11U.S. agricultural produce is not coming, especially corn that the American president is very keen on,
05:17is coming into Indian markets.
05:18India, on the other hand, is very determined.
05:21It protects the interests of our farmers and the sensitive dairy sector.
05:25Energy is another area where differences have surfaced,
05:28though India has made that conscious effort to engage the U.S. more on energy requirements.
05:33Washington at times sought to portray India's procurement of the discounted Russian oil
05:38as a consequence of U.S. policy choices.
05:42India said oil, the framework that was in place in the world, Russian oil was discounted.
05:49The world had decided that discounted oil could be procured and India did it for the betterment of India
05:56and, of course, European countries and all those advised prices would have gone up.
06:01India has consistently maintained energy decisions are sovereign decisions guided by national interest
06:06and energy security considerations alone.
06:08So the two leaders meeting on the sidelines of G7, will they now help bring the relationship on an even
06:16keel?
06:16The Trump-Modhi meeting tomorrow becomes significant.
06:21This handshake, is this a crucial icebreaker?
06:25I quickly want to cut across to France and bring in India today's Pranay Upadhyay.
06:29Pranay, what's the conversation around the handshake and no hug?
06:35Is this an icebreaker of sorts?
06:38It's optimism as far as this relationship is concerned.
06:41You know, this was an icebreaker.
06:43After 16 months, both Prime Minister Nareen Moody and U.S. President Donald Trump were face-to-face.
06:49They shook hands.
06:49But in fact, the setting was quite formal.
06:52In fact, this is a good primer, good start, ahead of their much-awaited meeting
06:58between Prime Minister Moody and U.S. President Donald Trump on the sidelines of the G7 summit.
07:02But a lot has happened.
07:03As you rightly mentioned, Gaurav, that there is absolutely no question of diluting India's priority
07:10or India's red line.
07:11But certainly, India is candid enough to take up its issues and its concern.
07:17And without diluting India's core concern, India can take the relationship forward.
07:22And as a strategic partner, it's all about managing the relationship, minimizing the differences
07:27and maximizing the consensus.
07:29And you have seen that, you know, many a times, the bond or the relationship between the two leaders
07:34actually creates the environment for both the bureaucracies to work out, minimize the differences,
07:39you know, to take forward the relationship, build on that consensus and the ideas conceived by the two leaders.
07:47And here, we have seen that how U.S. President Donald Trump, in President Donald Trump's previous term,
07:52between 2016 and 2020, created the foundation.
07:56In fact, you know, in the last 16 months, we have taken this relationship going through a very rough phase.
08:02But let's see whether these leaders, when they would be meeting in the serene and scenic environment of Avion,
08:09will they be able to push the reset button?
08:11Will they be able to take forward the relationship and, you know, set aside the differences and work on maximizing
08:18the consensus?
08:19President Trump, in this room, where he's sitting, he doesn't have many friends inside this room,
08:26many trusted partners, even though, you know, he and other NATO allies should have been on the same page.
08:33But whether it's Ukraine or Greenland or the manner in which he's been talking down to Europe,
08:38he doesn't have many friends in that room.
08:41Absolutely. And that's why many questions, many analysts thought that, you know,
08:47it was a total disaster to lose a friend like India,
08:49a relationship which was built over the course of two and a half decades and last 25 years.
08:54This relationship is a unique relationship, which enjoyed a bipartisan support,
08:59both in the United States and India.
09:01You know, there have been governments of different colors and shades in both the countries.
09:04But in fact, this relationship moved steadily and upwardly.
09:08But in the last 16 months, we have seen that how domestic politics of the United States
09:13and President Donald Trump's own, you know, political style has actually created trouble for this relationship.
09:19But, you know, having said that, one factor to be noted here,
09:23that as far as Prime Minister Narendra Modi and U.S. President Donald Trump and their relationship is concerned,
09:29President Donald Trump, every time mentioned that he considered Prime Minister Narendra Modi as a great friend,
09:35as a true friend.
09:36And in fact, he said in as many words, you know, a few days ago,
09:40that he considered himself as a big, big fan of Prime Minister Narendra Modi.
09:43So let's see how this relationship actually translates in action.
09:47What tangible outcomes can come from this, you know, relationship and actually after this meeting,
09:52because there are many issues where India will be looking forward to get more, you know,
09:57benefit for more, you know, relief, be it the visa policy or be it, you know,
10:02taking forward the trade relationship and building upon, for more stronger ties
10:08with a strategic partner like the United States.
10:10I will come back to you for more.
10:12Pranay is our man on ground and we'll keep an eye on these latest developments.
10:16I want to quickly bring into this conversation Ambassador Veena Sikri,
10:19former top diplomat Daniel Silverberg, is managing director at Capstone,
10:24former Pentagon and Capitol Hill official who joins us on this broadcast.
10:27Jain Krishna is senior fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
10:31Sandeep Unitan is senior journalist tracking India-U.S. relations very closely.
10:37Ambassador Sikri, when you look at these images, the firm handshake, no hug,
10:42decode these images for us.
10:45What does the body language of the two leaders indicate, ma'am?
10:49I think it's a good beginning.
10:51It's a good beginning because you can see that President Trump got up with great
10:56alacrity to receive the Prime Minister who was approaching him.
11:00And the Prime Minister looked firmly and directly into the eyes of President Trump.
11:05And it was a good firm handshake, a good handshake.
11:08And, you know, in the end, President Trump, you know, patented Prime Minister Modi.
11:13Maybe President Trump was expecting a hug, but Prime Minister Modi stood his ground,
11:19was firm.
11:19It was a very good first handshake, I think, that took place there.
11:24And it sets the tone for the meeting tomorrow,
11:27which I think will be a good and important meeting after 16 months.
11:31We have seen already that the USTR, the trade representative, is already headed for India.
11:37So while there may not be an announcement of the trade deal tomorrow,
11:40I think that perhaps when the USTR is in Delhi next week,
11:44there will certainly be a big focus on the trade deal.
11:47And maybe that will be concluded now.
11:49But certainly in the aftermath of the Iran-US peace deal,
11:55MOU, there is no peace deal.
11:56It's just a memorandum of understanding on what will happen next.
12:00And I think that would be one of the subjects of discussion between the President.
12:06Let me also quickly bring in Sandeep into this conversation.
12:09Because Sandeep, US President Donald Trump may claim Prime Minister Narendra Modi is a dear friend,
12:14or he is a fan, or words to that effect.
12:16Ultimately, does the relationship benefit Indian people?
12:21Would the first proof be if they are moving forward on the trade deal?
12:26Absolutely, Gaurav.
12:27You know, there are so many contradictions in the relationship in the last couple of months,
12:31in the last 16 months that the two heads of government haven't met.
12:35You know, we have not seen an India-US relationship in such a way,
12:40in this condition, in the last quarter of a century even, Gaurav.
12:44So, you know, the trade deal is the first test that the two leaders have to take on.
12:50And then there are, of course, other issues like the H-1B visas, which are very sensitive here for India.
12:55But the trade deal is something that we've been waiting for for a very long time.
12:59There's talk that the next steps will be set into motion tomorrow.
13:05And sometime in July, we could have that trade deal finally, Gaurav.
13:09Daniel Silverberg, the relationship has gone through a rollercoaster in the past 16 months.
13:14But is there a desire in the United States or the Trump administration, and especially,
13:20OK, the White House, not the State Department,
13:23does the White House want to bring this relationship on an even keel?
13:29Gaurav, it's good to see you again.
13:32Right now, I think that this White House has so many other priorities that it is trying to land,
13:39that the U.S.-India relationship, regrettably, I think, is not top of mind.
13:45I think what's top of mind right now is figuring out how they're going to present this MOU
13:51between the U.S. and Iran in as a positive a light as possible
13:57to insulate President Trump from accusations that he has signed on to something that is
14:04what he thinks is weaker than the JCPOA.
14:08From everything we're seeing from alleged leaks, and those can't be trusted,
14:13there's a ton of noise, but at least in terms of the framework
14:15that the Trump administration officials like J.D. Vance are discussing this agreement,
14:22it sure sounds a lot like the way that the JCPOA was set up
14:26in terms of some form of financial compensation or sanctions relief
14:32in return for Iranian compliance.
14:36But we've got to see the details and judgment withholding until then.
14:42Yeah, because reports in the United States seem to indicate that the President
14:45and the Vice President are not on the same page on that,
14:49including the Vice President's interview.
14:51But that's a debate for another time.
14:53Right now, Jayant Krishna, what do these images indicate to you?
14:59Is President Trump, you know, as Daniel Silverberg points out, rather distracted?
15:04He's facing tremendous criticism in the United States over that trade deal.
15:09There are people who say he's surrendered.
15:11Israel is very unhappy.
15:13So, you know, India clearly wouldn't be on top of his mind,
15:16nor would the trade deal be.
15:19So, Gaurav, I fundamentally believe that, you know,
15:21we all know that India is not a formal member of G7.
15:25It's just a special invitee.
15:26And, you know, this is President, the Prime Minister Modi's,
15:31you know, seventh consecutive visit at G7
15:34and India's 13th since inception of G7.
15:38So, I think I completely agree that, you know,
15:41India is not the foremost agenda at this summit at all,
15:44even in bilateral, you know, while there'll be a passing reference
15:48to the impending trade deal, for sure, and the last few irritants.
15:52But I don't think the irritants which are left on either side
15:54will get resolved at this bilateral in France.
15:58Primary focus would be, you know,
16:00since India has always been representing the voice of a global south,
16:04you know, I think the primary focus would be the West Asia crisis
16:08and the Ukraine crisis, to my mind.
16:09Because, you know, West Asia crisis, we all know how it has disturbed
16:14the energy security, how the oil prices have gone up,
16:17how, you know, India's import bill has gone up,
16:19and how it has adversely affected India's balance of payment, right?
16:24So, I think, and so, I mean, while it appears that the peace deal
16:29with Iran is around the corner, and in a few days' time,
16:32it will get signed, and even the state of foremost will be opened, right?
16:36But, you know, I mean, the global south has paid a much heavier price
16:40as an outcome of the West Asia crisis than the global north, right?
16:45Fair enough.
16:45But Ambassador Sikri, for the benefit of the one-on-one
16:50that the two are having, is that just, you know,
16:53just because they're there, have a one-on-one.
16:56Last year, I was covering the G7 in Canada at Caracas,
17:00and that time, President Trump had left.
17:02He did not stay back.
17:03He invited Prime Minister Narendra Modi to Washington, D.C.,
17:06which many in India saw as a trap, because Ase Munir was there.
17:10So, tomorrow, when they meet,
17:12what are your expectations from that meeting?
17:15Will there be an effort to bring this relationship on an even keel,
17:19or would it rather be just a meet and greet,
17:21and just review the progress on the overall relationship?
17:26I think there will be a definite effort.
17:28Certainly, on the trade deal, we have already discussed that.
17:30But beyond that, I think President Trump has received enough advice
17:35from his own White House and from the State Department
17:38on the India-U.S. relationship.
17:40And, you know, there's enough momentum that he's getting
17:43from the big boys of American industry, you know,
17:46whether it is the AI leaders or the IT leaders,
17:49you know, they all are saying, I mean, all the people are saying,
17:51look, if you don't want to put a $100,000 fee on the H-1B,
17:54we are taking our investments to India.
17:56And that is actually happening with data centers,
17:59big investments in data centers happening in Vishakha, Patnam, and others.
18:03But I tell you one important factor that I feel is there,
18:06that the world is changing.
18:08There's a new global order emerging.
18:10That's very clear.
18:11Prime Minister's visit for the G7,
18:13it's a very important consecutive visit.
18:15His role is highly regarded in the G7.
18:19He is going to use this visit to absorb what are these changes
18:24and how India is going to reset its political and economic relationships
18:30in keeping with the changes.
18:31We've already seen the new outreach to Europe.
18:34We've already seen how for our energy security,
18:37number one, we have diversified our supplies to 41 countries.
18:40Number two, we, with President of UAE,
18:42we have agreed on the Strategic Oil Reserve in Fujaira.
18:45We've seen how with Oman, the pipeline is once again being discussed after many years.
18:50So India is all set for this.
18:52We know that there is a big change in the world order coming.
18:56China, the Xi Jinping President Trump summit did not produce the G2
19:00that President Trump hoped for.
19:02China is talking about multipolarity,
19:04but clearly aiming to be number one in the world.
19:06So India has to keep its focus on multi-alignment,
19:10on our strategic autonomy,
19:11and on building our relationships with each of the poles which are there,
19:15whether it is Russia, whether it is Europe and others.
19:17So I think this is where the visit is very important.
19:20Prime Minister Modi's discussion with Mr. Kani,
19:23with Prime Minister Keir Sharma, with President of UAE,
19:26and of course with President Trump, very, very important.
19:29We will definitely want to carry the relationship forward.
19:31It's an important relationship.
19:33We don't want it to fall back in any way.
19:35So we will be talking about all these ideas,
19:38whether it is the transfer of technology, the GE engines,
19:40so many other issues are there.
19:42The agenda is a long one.
19:44But we do hope that the Quad Summit will ought to take place.
19:47We do hope that President Trump will announce a visit to India.
19:50Okay.
19:52Quad Summit or a bilateral visit.
19:54Maybe the Quad Summit will take place in December at the G20 in Mar-a-Lago.
20:00But certainly in the meanwhile, India is developing its bilaterals with Japan
20:04and with Australia on the same issue of maritime security,
20:08which France also will focus on maritime security.
20:12Daniel Silverberg, does America also see this changing world order?
20:16The meetings that Prime Minister Narendra Modi is having,
20:19very, very significant, whether it's with Prime Minister Mark Kani,
20:23with Prime Minister Kiyasthama,
20:25or with Sheikh Mohammed bin, you know, Al-Nayan, Zayed Al-Nayan of UAE?
20:32Sure.
20:33Well, Kurov, look, foreign policy observers like myself
20:38have long paid very close attention to who Prime Minister Modi is meeting with at the G7,
20:45specifically because it is axiomatic at this point
20:50that India is a major player and it has options
20:54and the U.S. needs to tread carefully in how it approaches its relations with India.
21:01Now, here's what I expect to unfold at the summit.
21:06I think my colleague on the panel is absolutely right in terms of the issues
21:11that the State Department and India experts inside this administration
21:18likely want the president to talk about.
21:20But it's critical to understand we're talking about Donald Trump
21:23and he is going to go off script and discuss whatever he wishes
21:28and he's likely feeling somewhat emboldened from this agreement.
21:32And I wouldn't be surprised if he turns to the Prime Minister and simply says,
21:36I want to hear a thank you from you for reopening the strait,
21:40something along those lines.
21:41Here's what ideally I would want to see as part of these discussions amidst the Iran negotiation.
21:48I would want to hear a revival of IMEK, the India-Middle East Corridor.
21:52This is a key way to defang Iran and India plays a key role.
21:58The Trump administration has expressed interest, if not passive support for IMEK.
22:03Now is the time to really double down and leverage the G7 meeting
22:09to revive this key corridor that would allow us, allow the U.S. and our allies
22:16to bypass Iran and the Strait of Hormuz on the energy front
22:19and would also help strengthen U.S.-India cooperation on a number of fronts.
22:26Well, you know, that would be the most sensible thing to do, Sandeep.
22:30You know, from India's G20 presidency, that big India-Middle East-Europe economic corridor,
22:37that idea that came, the signatures that we saw, the world leaders, they stood together.
22:42There was conversation that on the India leg there was progress, on UAE leg there was progress,
22:48Saudi Arabia, of course, it was seen as slower.
22:51Israel, the progress was there, Europe was working, Italy was working big towards it.
22:57But do you see progress on the IMEK route or did President Trump get derailed
23:00because of the October 7, 2023 terror attack and subsequent Iran-Israel war?
23:07Well, Gaurav, the October 7th event incident, the tragic massacre of Israeli civilians,
23:13that had put the IMEK on hold, on the back burner.
23:17The war continues in some form or the other.
23:20And the war is, you know, the multiple wars that we have seen since the 7th of October
23:24have all been along the flight path, if you can say so, of the IMEK corridor.
23:30But now, once the peace process kicks in, then that is going to be India's, you know,
23:36major key result area.
23:38And if you see the kind of trips that Prime Minister Modi has been carrying out
23:42over the last couple of months, Gaurav, this is indicative of a post-Iran peace agreement,
23:49a post-Middle Eastern peace deal, which is, Europe becomes very, very significant for India.
23:56And you've seen the number of countries in Europe that he has visited,
23:59from the Scandinavian countries to France, he's going to Italy, Slovakia.
24:04He is actually betting very big on this IMEK corridor.
24:09And that is going to be India's, you know, big, big project of a kind that we've not seen
24:16since Independence Corp.
24:17This is very critical.
24:18And this is going to be the defining aspect of Prime Minister Modi's legacy as a Prime Minister.
24:24And that's one of the reasons that he's going out all out for this.
24:27This is going to be the critical, critical project that will kick off once this piece
24:34in the investment...
24:35Well, India's invested heavily in IMEK remains to be seen whether it actually,
24:39you know, takes shape on ground.
24:41But Jayankrishna, what are signs you would be looking for to see
24:44if the relationship is returning on an even keel?
24:47What would be that sign?
24:49Are you talking about the relationship with the US, Gaurav?
24:52Yes, with the US.
24:53Yeah, so I think, you know, I think some progress on the trade deal
24:58because last few irritants are left.
25:00You know, I think USTR is visiting India next week, most probably.
25:06And so I think, you know, final sort of, you know, go ahead and is very, very important
25:14without sacrificing the interest of our farmers and dairy entrepreneurs.
25:19So that Union Commerce Minister, Piyush Goyal, has very clearly told me is not happening.
25:24Interests of our farmers are not being impacted adversely in any which way.
25:29So 30 seconds, Ambassador Sikri, in your opinion, what would be that one sign
25:33or signs you would look out for that would indicate that the relationship
25:37is now moving forward on a positive trajectory?
25:40I think, first of all, the trade deal.
25:43I think President Trump could possibly say that the trade deal will be concluded
25:47with the USTR visit next week.
25:49I think that would be an important announcement to watch out for.
25:52The second would be the scheduled meetings.
25:55Is he going to come to India?
25:56Is he inviting Prime Minister Modi for the Quad Summit in December?
26:01And of course, Prime Minister will be going for the G20 in the US.
26:04I think this is important because President Trump,
26:07is he going to take on board once again his interest in the Indo-Pacific,
26:11in maritime security?
26:12Because, of course, I know a big thing that President Trump now wants
26:15is to have an equally important MOU with Ukraine and Russia,
26:20between Ukraine and Russia.
26:21He wants to mediate that as well.
26:25But I think that the readout of tomorrow's meeting,
26:28I hope it's a joint readout.
26:29Let's see if there can be a joint readout of tomorrow's meeting.
26:32That will be an important indication,
26:34whether it will be a joint or a separate readout.
26:36I look forward.
26:37I think it will be a positive outcome.
26:39Fair enough.
26:40And we'll be tracking that story very closely.
26:42I want to thank all my guests for joining me on this part of India.
26:45First, I have Israel's Deputy Foreign Minister,
26:48Sharon Haskell, joining me on the other side of a quick break
26:51because President Trump has actually said that
26:55Israel's Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu,
26:57should have acted more responsibly when it comes to Lebanon.
27:01What does that indicate?
27:02All that and lots more coming up.
27:04Stay with us.
27:06U.S. President Donald Trump has publicly criticized Israel's Prime Minister,
27:10Benjamin Netanyahu,
27:12and Jerusalem's continued military operations in Lebanon,
27:16saying he was very unhappy with the recent strikes in Beirut,
27:20warning that the conflict with Hezbollah has dragged on for far too long.
27:25The American President went so far to say that without him, without the U.S., there would be no Israel.
27:33He's called on Israel's Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, to act more responsibly.
27:39But Israel's Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, is actually pushed back.
27:43He refused to take this lying down.
27:45The Israeli Prime Minister says he is responsible for the security of the people of Israel.
27:50He's acknowledged that he and the American President, they often don't see eye to eye,
27:56but they speak very frequently.
27:58But his decisions are taken, keeping in mind the safety of the people of Israel.
28:04And as long as he's the Prime Minister of Israel, Iran will never have a nuclear weapon.
28:12Now, I'm not happy with the way Israel has handled themselves with Lebanon and with Hezbollah.
28:20They should have been able to do this job faster.
28:22It just goes on forever.
28:25And when that happens, it throws a negative light on the big deal,
28:30and that's the deal with Iran.
28:33So, when you ask me about Bibi, an unbelievable relationship.
28:39But Israel would have been blown up a long time ago had I not gotten involved.
28:43We had a great relationship.
28:46We're talking about some end details.
28:50I didn't like that he did an attack based on a, you know, there's a very minor little thing with
28:58some drones that were released.
28:59And he ends up doing a very, I saw that attack.
29:02I saw where that bomb went.
29:04Did you see what happened?
29:05That was not, that was not, that was a vicious, that was too much.
29:09You know, you can do too much also.
29:12But we've had a very effective relationship.
29:16Without us, without the United States, there would be no Israel.
29:21Without me, there would be no Israel.
29:23Because no other president was willing to do what I did.
29:27I've had a great relationship with Bibi, but now Bibi has to be more responsible with respect to Lebanon.
29:53Let me quickly cut across to Jerusalem.
29:56Joining me from Israel on this India First special broadcast is Sharon Haskell, Devery, Foreign Minister of Israel.
30:03Minister, welcome on India First.
30:07Hello, Gaurav.
30:08Thank you for having me.
30:11Minister, Iran's condition is ceasefire on all fronts.
30:16And yet Israel continues to pound southern Lebanon.
30:19Is Israel not on board this peace initiative?
30:27I think it's on the contrary.
30:30The fact is, Hezbollah claimed and attacked Israel not once, but twice yesterday, already after receiving the Memorandum of Understanding.
30:40This is just yesterday.
30:42Hezbollah attacked us twice.
30:44What do you expect us to do, just to stand on the side and not respond, not to defend our
30:50people, not to defend our country?
30:52I think this is out of the question.
30:54I think that in any case, if Pakistan would have attacked New Delhi or Mumbai or any other city in
31:01India,
31:01and anyone would have asked you just to stand on the side and not to respond while your people are
31:08being killed,
31:09while your cities are being destroyed, while your forces are under fire, that will be absolutely unacceptable.
31:15So why do you think you can ask that from Israel?
31:19Okay, okay.
31:20But you heard the American president, he said he's unhappy with Israel's continued operations in Lebanon.
31:27He says there would be no Israel without me or without the U.S.
31:30And he's indicating, let others handle the situation, you know, let somebody like Syria handle the situation.
31:38Is that acceptable?
31:40Look, I don't think it's acceptable on Israel.
31:43I don't think it should be acceptable on, you know, on the Lebanese people as well.
31:49I mean, Gaurav, you've been reporting from all around the world.
31:52Did you see what the Al-Jolani forces and the Turkish forces together with them have done in Al-Sueda
31:58to the Christians in Damascus, to the Alawis in their towns?
32:04Have you seen how they butchered them, hanged them, took their heads off, raped little girls and abducted them?
32:12Do you wish that for the Lebanese people?
32:15Do you think that they can be restrained and ordered by Al-Jolani?
32:21I don't think so.
32:22Otherwise, he would have been able to do that in Syria.
32:25Now, you asked me to exchange one terrorist organization run by Iran with another terrorist, radical, fanatical mob, okay, of
32:38ex-ISIS fighters when I don't even know if anyone can control them.
32:44And would that be a risk to our people as well?
32:47Of course.
32:48And so, I would hold down.
32:50But, you know, those conversations are being held by Prime Minister Netanyahu and President Trump over the phone.
32:57They speak almost every day, sometimes numerous times a day, okay?
33:02And sometimes there's disagreement.
33:04And it's okay.
33:05Among friends, you don't agree on everything.
33:08But you talk over a thing.
33:09And you don't do it over the media.
33:11Yeah, but you do it to one another.
33:14But are Israel and U.S. on the same page?
33:17Have Israel's concerns on the range of ballistic missiles, for example?
33:21Or what will happen to the enriched uranium?
33:23Have they not been addressed in this proposed peace plan?
33:26Or are you hopeful that it will be addressed during that 60-day-long negotiation?
33:33So, I think there's a very basic fact that many do not understand right now.
33:39This is not a peace agreement.
33:42This is a framework that is being signed on negotiations for the next 60 days.
33:49Which means that, you know, the Strait of Hormones are going to be open.
33:55And there are going to be negotiations for the next 60 days on what would hopefully be a long-lasting
34:04solution.
34:05Now, during the 60 days, the nuclear military program of Iran is going to be discussed.
34:12The enriched uranium, ballistic missile program, proxies.
34:15Everything to try and secure the future of humanity.
34:20This is not just about Israel.
34:21It's not just about America.
34:23There are ballistic missiles that can easily reach India.
34:28Iran have attacked some of its closest allies during the last few months,
34:32including their greatest defenders in the international community,
34:36like Qatar and Turkey and Kuwait and other Arab countries who were their greatest allies.
34:44They were attacked by Iran.
34:45So, can you tell me that India is safe from them or any other country in the world?
34:51I think this is something that should concern every sensible leader who wants to protect their people and their country.
34:58And that's what is going to be discussed in the next 60 days.
35:02Okay.
35:03Of course, India has no U.S. bases as some of these countries did.
35:07Their interests were targeted.
35:09But tell me this, ma'am.
35:10U.S. President Donald Trump, he was seen as this hero.
35:14He was hailed as a hero in Israel around the 28th of February.
35:18But four months down the line,
35:19is there an impression or a growing feeling that he's let Israel down?
35:26No.
35:27I think it's very evident that President Trump is a good friend of Israel.
35:32Okay.
35:33And the fact is that President Trump and Prime Minister Netanyahu are good friends as well.
35:38And they talk every single day, sometimes a few times a day.
35:43And so, you know, even when there's concerns and when there's disagreement,
35:48President Trump's looking after American interests as we expect Prime Minister Netanyahu to look after Israeli interests.
35:54And should Prime Minister Netanyahu defend our northern border against a terrorist organization run by Iran, Hezbollah?
36:04Of course he should.
36:06And so, you know, those sometimes disagreements, they are being talked and conversed between those two leaders.
36:13They don't need to send messages over the media.
36:16But, you know, your Prime Minister is Israel's Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu,
36:21under tremendous pressure within, not just his allies, but even the opposition.
36:27For example, opposition leader, Yar Yel Lapid, he's called the agreement, words to the effect,
36:32one of the most shocking failures of Israel's foreign and security policy.
36:36Yar Golan has said,
36:38In one signature stroke, immense military achievements have been erased as Deputy Minister for Foreign Affairs.
36:46How would you respond to the criticism that comes your way or the Prime Minister's way, ma'am?
36:55Well, you know, opposition is an opposition.
36:58And you'll hear them criticize most cases and almost on every case.
37:04And that's okay.
37:05This is part of their democratic position and their democratic job, you know, to defend and question almost everything.
37:13And Israel is a vibrant democracy, you know, the only true democracy in the Middle East.
37:19So I'm not concerned about that.
37:22But as Israelis, we are extremely concerned about what's going to be in the next 60 days during those negotiations.
37:29I have to say, you know, I trust Prime Minister Netanyahu and he's been standing strong on Israel's interests and,
37:36you know, on Israel's security needs time and time again.
37:41And this is something that we need to look into now and to make sure that our position is being
37:47heard and that our interests are being guarded.
37:50Because at the end of the day, Gaurav, this is the future of our children.
37:56This is a question on whether they are going to be under death threat or threat of annihilation by very
38:02extreme tools like mass destructive weapons, nuclear weapons.
38:07This is no joke.
38:09And it is definitely not a joke for me, a mother of three, who needs to look after my children
38:14and they're growing here in Israel in safety and security.
38:18Okay.
38:19But given the divergence of views between the Israeli Prime Minister and the American President, and this is not the
38:26first time it's happening.
38:27It's happened with the previous U.S. President Joe Biden.
38:31In the long term, is Israel preparing a strategy of perhaps independent deterrence and enforcement, even in situations where U
38:40.S. policy may not be aligned to Israel's assessment?
38:44Because the American assessment is there is no Israel without the United States.
38:50Loka, the first thing is that there's a huge alliance between Israel and America.
38:55We went into this operation as partners.
38:58And I think that America is very much, you know, aware, especially during these times, that there isn't a better
39:05ally to America than Israel to support it in every piece and every point.
39:11And there isn't a better ally to Israel than the United States of America.
39:17And in that case, you know, we've had some ups and downs.
39:22And it was very vivid also during the times of President Biden, where there was a lot of difficulties.
39:29And I think that at that point, you know, when we felt, you know, really, we felt badly about some
39:40decisions and some actions that President Biden have taken.
39:44And I think that's when the decision was made of taking more independently our security industry, which is booming right
39:54now.
39:54There is so much technology and invention that Israelis are bringing out to the world to protect and defend troops
40:02and soldiers in the battlefield and protect civilians.
40:06And this is an approach that the government of Israel and the Prime Minister have decided on.
40:13Sharon Haskell, the Deputy Foreign Minister of Israel.
40:16Many thanks for joining me.
40:18Let's hope peace prevails.
40:20And through dialogue and diplomacy, there is a solution that's acceptable for all.
40:25Many thanks for joining me.
40:27That is all I have for you on this India First special broadcast.
40:30Many thanks for watching.
40:31News and updates continue on India Today.
40:33News and updates continue on India.
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