- 7 minutes ago
The Beta Band frontman spent twelve years writing a memoir, worrying for most of them that it read like a primary school essay. Ahead of the band's Latitude Festival appearance this summer, Mason is dismissive of the cult genius label he's carried for three decades: "I don't think anyone starts out with that intention." The book, Failure is Always an Option, is out now. Among its highlights is the story of convincing Rockfield Studios that Michael Jackson was visiting, his arrival announced by a "diamante glove" emerging from a slowly passing limo. He also reveals the band once turned down a million dollars for a car advert, a decision he admits he would not make today.Latitude Festival 2026 takes place 23-26 July at Henham Park, Suffolk. Tickets are available at latitudefestival.com
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00:00We're here with former motorcycle courier, rider, mechanic, cult member, not cult member, cult band member, basically maverick, borrowing genius,
00:11Beta Band's Steve Mason to talk about the Beta Band's appearance at the Latitude Festival.
00:16The Latitude, yes. Hello.
00:18Have you done Latitude before, by the way? You probably haven't, have you?
00:22We have, yeah, but it was a long time. I can't remember when, but it was a long time ago.
00:25Yeah. As the Beta Band, you did it. Yes. I've done it solo as well, but it was a long
00:34time ago. I honestly cannot remember when. It must be, yeah.
00:37We'll get the statisticians out on that and we'll put it, we'll ticker it at the bottom of the screen.
00:42But actually, you personally, Steve, might be one of the few people performing, certainly this year, who will be doing
00:49a bit in the literary tent,
00:51as well as being on the second stage doing the music. Yes.
00:55Can you explain what that's all about?
00:57We have just put out a book and, yeah, 12 years in the making, but then it's the last two
01:03or three years of really intense writing.
01:05Yeah, and it's finally out, which has been great. And I've been doing various Q&As up and down the
01:11country, as you know.
01:12And you've even got merch, I think.
01:14I don't have merch. This is, well, on the back of this, it says failure is not an option.
01:22Ah, I see what you've done.
01:23Because obviously the title of the book is failure is always an option.
01:27Exactly. Yeah.
01:28This is too American. You know, you keep it slightly British, obviously, some questioning.
01:34So, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, finally finished the book and it's out. And I've been really enjoying the Q&As
01:40and the feedback from it in general.
01:41Yeah.
01:42It's nice when people really land really well. The feedback that you get is exactly what you wanted to get
01:48across and the way you wanted to connect with people.
01:51Must be gratifying.
01:52It really is, yeah, because it's a hard thing to do.
01:54And I was always worried that the book was going to come over as me being not particularly intelligent and
02:00that the writing wasn't very intelligent and, you know, it was all a bit sort of, you know, sort of
02:06primary school.
02:08Is that partially because, I suppose, when you think about books and you think, well, if J.D. Salinger and
02:13William Shakespeare, you put yourself up against all the greats sometimes, don't you?
02:18Instead of thinking, well, am I getting my story across in a succinct way?
02:21Yeah, I think that, because I remember just reading a lot of Christopher Hitchens books and I would have to
02:26have a dictionary here and the book here and you'd be constantly, not that I was aiming for that level
02:32of pomposity, but when you see, or even something like a relatively simple book like Count of Monte Cristo, which
02:41is probably one of the greatest stories ever told, but if you read it, it's written very, anyone can read
02:46it.
02:46It's very simple. So I guess it's just finding that kind of point where you say very interesting things in
02:54a sort of simplistic way, you know.
02:56It's finding your voice in a way, isn't it? It's a funny thing, isn't it? But you really do do,
02:59it's like you do with the music, I suppose.
03:01I mean, we'll circle back to the book, which is brilliant in a bit, but to go to the, when
03:06you're on the second stage on Saturday with the band.
03:09First of all, Melvin, Ben, the great Melvin himself, describes you, as many do, as a cult genius, not a
03:18typo, Steve.
03:18Do you accept the mantle of cult genius, or has the crime been a bit too heavy over the years,
03:25do you think, of that kind of description?
03:28I'm not a genius. I've had moments of genius, but they tended to happen quite a while ago now.
03:34I remember moaning on Twitter years and years ago, somebody had said something about a cult legend or something like
03:43that,
03:43and for some stupid reason I responded, which I never do anymore, but, and I said something along the lines
03:49of,
03:49I never wanted to be a cult hero or a cult this or that, I wanted to be, I didn't
03:55want to be famous, but I wanted to be hugely successful.
03:58Heard, yeah.
03:59And I had a bit of a moan about that, which, you know, he pulled me up on it, which
04:03he's probably quite right to do,
04:04but at the same time, to reiterate, I never, that whole thing of being cult, we've, you know, a lot
04:10of what I do's ended up like that,
04:11but I never, I don't think anyone starts out with that intention, maybe some people do,
04:16but I think everybody starts out with the idea that their music and the songs are going to be heard
04:23all over the world
04:24by millions and millions of people, and I guess the rest of your career is spent dealing with that disappointment.
04:36That's the life of a cult artist.
04:37Yeah, but it's also strange with a band like you, because, yes, and we've talked about this before,
04:45and I guess that kind of what some, like Melvin might be steering towards with his statement is,
04:50there is a general feeling that, yes, you obviously had the chops as a band, as songwriters, as players,
04:58to be, to sell this many albums, and you perhaps didn't reach that potential.
05:03However, arguably, the level that you got to was right for you,
05:08and secondly, the kind of people that are into your music, it's always quite surprising, isn't it?
05:14I mean, notwithstanding the fact that the famous moment, of course, were, you end up in high fidelity,
05:22you know, the film, and John Cusack's a massive fan, and he ended up, there's a whole scene in the
05:26film,
05:26I mean, that's a very famous thing now, but is that quite gratifying sometimes, to know that the people who
05:34do get it?
05:34I mean, I guess the interesting thing about being a cult musician, or whatever, is that you do,
05:41people who are fans crop up in the weirdest places, we get a lot of actors, strangely, who are really
05:47into the beta band,
05:48so John McLean, who's directed a couple of feature films now, he'll get actors that he's employed coming up to
05:55him,
05:55saying, oh, by the way, I love the beta band, by the way, and I've had all kinds of strange
05:59people,
05:59but then you have very odd things happen to you, like, when I first moved to where we're living now,
06:04in the local swimming pool, I took my daughter down there, about, when she was probably four years old,
06:09four or five years old, and I was down in the pool with her, splashing around, this guy swam up
06:13to me,
06:14and he said, in the pool, and he's still messing, and he wanted to go, no, no, I'm a dad.
06:22That's your sort of Superman, rather than Clark Kent, isn't it?
06:25Exactly, exactly.
06:26It is weird, isn't it, when you're trying to be a family person, and it's like...
06:30Yeah, and then, obviously, my daughter's incredibly confused, who's that man, why did he know your name?
06:35It's like, well, you know, I make music.
06:37Do you?
06:37Yeah.
06:38Does she like it yet?
06:41Or does she, do you play around the house, sort of thing?
06:44No, no, no, but obviously, if I'm rehearsing or writing, especially when I'm writing,
06:48because she's hearing a lot of the same stuff over and over again,
06:51so she likes that, and I collaborated with a Pakistani artist called Javed Bashir
07:00on the last record, on a couple of tracks, and so I had to do a couple of Zoom things
07:05with him,
07:06and for a while, you know, she'd always, every morning, she'd say to me,
07:09are you speaking to Javed Bashir today?
07:12Very switched on.
07:15So, yeah, I mean, she's sort of a passing interest, but her own music's now taken over.
07:20Is she into K-pop Demon Hunters yet?
07:23She's definitely into a bit of that, and she really likes a lot of pop stuff,
07:26obviously a lot of Taylor Swift, and a lot of other young women,
07:31who, it all goes a bit over my head.
07:33A lot of it sounds incredibly similar to me, but Taylor Swift really stands out, definitely.
07:38When you're doing festivals, as an artist, how do you feel about them?
07:41Because, obviously, on the one hand, it's not your hardcore audience,
07:45and people are coming and going and popping off for some churros over here,
07:50but that then means also you can sort of wow a new crowd, doesn't it?
07:54So, how do you...?
07:56You're thinking about it, yeah, because I'm that guy.
07:58You're a real wow a crowd kind of a dude, aren't you?
08:01You love the crowd wow, don't you, man.
08:02Ladies and gentlemen, but seriously, how will you approach this, how do you?
08:08Or is it just like, do you do it the same every time, you know what?
08:12Well, I mean, you have to, with festivals, as you say, it's really different,
08:16but it's not, I don't think all the stuff you mentioned goes,
08:20that's not what's on your mind.
08:21What's on your mind is there's no sound check.
08:23Yeah.
08:23It's generally a revolving, so you have all your stuff set up,
08:26and then the stage flips around, or they just push your stuff out,
08:31and it's very much on, which is incredibly nerve-wracking.
08:35Is everything working?
08:37A lot of this.
08:39Yeah, definitely.
08:40I mean, yeah, so it's pretty nerve-wracking,
08:45but it's not as bad as it used to be.
08:47Definitely things have, because obviously we started doing festivals in about 90,
08:51I don't know, 98, something like that,
08:53and that was more nerve-wracking than it is now.
08:55Nowadays, I think they've really got it down to a fine art with changeover and all that stuff.
09:01And it's the boring stuff that you worry about, the technical stuff and all that stuff.
09:06And then sort of generally there's a point halfway through where you can relax a bit,
09:10and everything's working, and you can hear everything.
09:13Going back to the book as well, it's a real rollercoaster ride,
09:16because there's some really funny bits.
09:18There's a lot of hijinks to do with you being in various bands,
09:22but you also touch on more serious aspects of mental health and stuff.
09:26But some of the tech stories about some of the first gigs you did,
09:33when you're relying on things like loops on a laptop, and they're just sort of...
09:37It wasn't a laptop, it was an ancient old sampler.
09:39And when things like that stop, and you're building whole songs around them...
09:44Or there was one with a laptop, you're right.
09:45Yeah, there was two instances of complete sonic breakdown.
09:49And mental breakdown then at that point, isn't it?
09:51A laptop and a sampler, yeah.
09:53So I can see what you mean.
09:54That must leave an indelible mark of anxiety.
09:57But even that stuff, that tech as well, has caught up now.
10:00Yeah.
10:00It's a lot more reliable now.
10:02The big thing initially when we started was loading the samples from the floppy disk,
10:05because each track would need about three or four disks to be loaded up.
10:11And it can take upwards of a minute to two minutes to load a disk.
10:15This is super early tech.
10:17And then it got to the point where I started using laptops, like with the King Viscuit Time show that
10:22you're talking about.
10:22And the big problem with them early on was that when you're running a lot of tracks off, they move
10:26to overheat.
10:27So you had to have them sitting on.
10:29You've got these USB fans that they would sit on.
10:31And so you plug that in, and then...
10:34Yeah, it was difficult.
10:34But now things have...
10:35That tech has really calmed down as well.
10:38So I think these things in general are a lot easier.
10:41But we were definitely...
10:42We had to deal with years of stress and worry and no sound for ages.
10:49Yeah.
10:50Do you still...
10:51Because I haven't managed to see you yet since you came back uproariously with great excitement last year, I think,
10:59for your first live shows.
11:00But do you still swap instruments a lot?
11:03Do you still do it?
11:04Like, you put the guitar down, do some...
11:06You know, you're on the percussion, you know?
11:09Yeah, yeah.
11:10We love all...
11:10That's one of the things we love about the beta band, I think.
11:13Yeah.
11:13I mean, I think when people say you swap instruments, it's not like I'm playing guitar and I give John
11:17a nod and say,
11:18Do you want to have a go on this?
11:19It's what we're doing is recreating the song.
11:21So I might have played three or four instruments on the album and Richard or John or Robin might have
11:27done the same.
11:28So there is a lot of that going on and, you know, that's why we were all sort of really
11:36quite intimidated by rehearsals.
11:38I suppose especially the three of them because I've never stopped making music and so it wasn't...
11:42I wasn't nervous about being on stage and all that stuff.
11:44I was just nervous about getting the band to that point where you're not thinking about it anymore.
11:50You know what you've got to do next.
11:52You're just moving across and then you can concentrate on what you're actually playing.
11:57But, yeah, I mean, it's a lot of work to get the beta band up to the point where it's
12:05ready for action.
12:08Yeah.
12:08Definitely.
12:09Yeah.
12:10We're about to start again next week to go to Australia and Japan.
12:13Oh, God.
12:14And we all, and we haven't, you know, we walked off stage in New York in November and haven't,
12:20because I've been finishing the book and everyone's been working on other things.
12:24So we've got to do it all again.
12:26But this time we've only got seven days, but six days because I've got to shoot that short film that
12:32I've just got a part in.
12:33Steve Mason, mensch, a singer-songwriter, of course, but no author, but also actor in a short film.
12:42Yeah.
12:42So is it possible that that might be something that you do a bit long?
12:46I'd love to do that.
12:46I've wanted to do that for years and years and years.
12:49And every now and then I think about joining like a Amdram, local Amdram type thing.
12:55Yeah, it's finding time really.
12:56But yeah, a friend of mine, Rob Leggett, who just, who shot a short film last year, meeting Mr. Samuel
13:03with Charlie Creed Miles and some other really fantastic actors.
13:07And he shot this short film and it really blew me away how great it was.
13:11It was amazing.
13:11So anyway, he sent me this script for his new one and I auditioned on Saturday and got the part
13:19of this horrible cop called P.C. Boyle.
13:23That's a good name for an horrible cop as well, P.C. Boyle.
13:26Obviously he's Scottish.
13:27So you're going to be a horrible, hardcore, nasty copper.
13:31Just your classic cop that you would want to cross the street to avoid, yeah.
13:35So that before, hopefully we won't be losing, the music world will not be losing you completely.
13:39And certainly not before you do Latitude, which is the good news.
13:43I mean, a band, funnily enough, a band have always thought, sort of live on the same synapse as the
13:49beta band for me.
13:50As well as like, like technically contemporaries of yours, like spiritualised a little bit or, but the Flaming Lips are
13:56always in there in my brain as well.
13:58Something to do with the drum sound and the fact that sometimes there were two drummers in the Flaming Lips
14:04as well.
14:04Not necessarily always at the same time, but Stephen from the band, he was the great drummer on the records
14:10and then he'd get somebody in.
14:11And it always reminds me of you guys.
14:12They're also playing, of course.
14:14Yeah, well we're doing a couple of shows with them as well.
14:16That's right, yeah.
14:16So they're playing Latitude as well?
14:17Yeah.
14:18Oh, right, okay.
14:18So that's going to be quite a good...
14:20Yeah, let's hope we all get on.
14:21We've never met them.
14:22We've got to do three big shows with them now, yeah.
14:24Yeah, we're doing a co-headline show with them in Margate and then one in Halifax at the Peace Hall
14:29and then Latitude.
14:32So, yeah.
14:33I think it's virtually, scientifically, impossible to not get on with Wayne Coyne.
14:40Okay.
14:40I think.
14:41You couldn't say the same about me.
14:43What's Steve like?
14:45He's an acquired taste, but I like him.
14:48That's the way I always approach that.
14:50To go back quickly to the book, I'd just like to touch on some of the rock and roll hijinks
14:55of the beta band back in the day.
14:57I'm going to do a little...
14:58This is almost like an amuse-bouche to direct people to the book.
15:02Michael Jackson at Rockfield Studios, rooms full of bubbles, boat hijacks.
15:09Moving an entire bed into a swimming pool in a hotel for an unofficial video shoot.
15:15What would you say your favourite daft thing that you did back in the day was?
15:21The thing that I found myself wetting myself laughing about when I remembered it was the Michael Jackson, a very
15:30specific part of the Michael Jackson thing.
15:32Can you give us an idea of what went on there?
15:35So, we were at Rockfield Studios in Wales and recording Heroes to Zeros.
15:44Our engineer, we were self-producing and our engineer got really, really, really ill.
15:48Like, it was something bad.
15:50He was going to be out for quite a while.
15:52But at that point, we didn't know how bad it was.
15:53So, we stayed at Rockfield and we were waiting to hear any day, you know, if he was coming back
16:00or whatever.
16:00And then he said, I'm going to need at least a week off.
16:03So, we decided to stick around.
16:06Because it's a residential studio.
16:08It's a residential studio.
16:09So, you're there for, we were there for potentially six weeks.
16:12So, Kingsley Ward, the owner of Rockfield, he took up on himself to be our sort of entertainment officer tour
16:20guide to Wales.
16:21So, me and him went to this barn he had out the back and uncovered his Mark II Silver Shadow
16:28Rolls Royce.
16:29And pulled that out.
16:31And we all jumped in and he took us on various places.
16:35I mean, Rockfield's a working farm as well as being in the studio.
16:38So, he's got to get back to work at some point.
16:40We managed to hold it all down for another couple of days.
16:43And then we just started getting bored.
16:46And any band, when they get bored, there's usually mischief.
16:49Things happen.
16:50Yeah.
16:50And us particularly because we've got four brains that get bored but also have huge amounts of imagination.
16:57It's not just like it's just one person.
16:59It's all of us.
17:00And then that becomes one collective brain.
17:02The hive mind of mischief.
17:04Yeah.
17:04I decided that what we should do is test the loyalty of Rockfield and their staff to bands recording at
17:13Rockfield.
17:14And the way that I decided to do that, because I'm quite good at accents, was to call up the
17:18main office and pretend to be a music manager who wanted to bring an artist down to the studio for
17:27a look at the studio with a view to coming down for a week.
17:32And obviously, they said, no, we can't do that.
17:34We've got a band in here for another two, three weeks or whatever it is.
17:37So, then he calls back.
17:38This guy's American, this manager that I'm pretending to be.
17:42So, he calls back again, not taking no for an answer.
17:44And they say, no, obviously, we can't do that, blah, blah, blah.
17:47So, then this manager drops in, it's Jackson.
17:51Jackson.
17:51So, immediately I'm thinking, Joe Jackson.
17:55He said, no, it's Michael Jackson.
17:57So, they're kind of like really flattered and amazed that Michael Jackson's manager is on the phone.
18:03So, it's still a no.
18:07So, he goes, so the manager goes away, thinks about it, comes back with this enormous number.
18:13I think, I can't remember, it was about 100 grand for seven days.
18:16Wow.
18:17And at that point, I'm thinking, well, would the staff at Rockfield, because our engineer, Nick Bryan, he's ill.
18:23So, I'm thinking, why don't Rockfield just say to us, well, we'll give you 10 grand each.
18:27Yeah.
18:29You know, we've got you in on the deal.
18:30You guys go off for a week, and Jackson can come here and do his thing.
18:34But, no, it's a no again.
18:36Totally loyal.
18:37So, Jackson, the way that we decide the story's going to go is Jackson's in London at this time.
18:44So, the manager decides that Jackson wants to come and have a look at the studio.
18:50So, Jackson's going to fly to Cardiff and then get a limo from Cardiff up to Rockfield.
18:55And then, of course, we run into the problem of suddenly it's become this thing where they're going to have
18:59to meet.
19:00The staff at Rockfield are going to have to meet Jackson and meet the manager.
19:05We think of a brilliant way around that, and it's the bit that makes me laugh, which is that we
19:11hire a limo.
19:13We, me and, I think it was me and Robin that went into Rockfield and we found a glove.
19:20A sequined glove?
19:21Yeah, we found a glove.
19:22Diamante glove.
19:23When he was last there.
19:24Yeah, and so the Rockfield staff are all lined up waiting to meet Michael Jackson.
19:32The limo, it's in a courtyard, in a big sort of quad in a courtyard.
19:36The limo comes in slowly and as it's kind of, as it's kind of coming past them,
19:43the window goes down a little bit and this Diamante glove goes out and just, it's sort of doing this.
19:48And then the limo just comes in, does a big circle and then just drives straight out again.
19:54Christ, Lord.
19:55And, yeah, I just found that, just that image of this.
19:58And then just the fact it doesn't stop, it just boggles off again.
20:02He's seen enough.
20:03Yeah, he's just, Jackson's gone.
20:05He's been and gone.
20:06Yeah.
20:07That is, that's a proper prank, ladies and gentlemen.
20:08Very juvenile.
20:09It's what we want from our cult legends, you see.
20:12You turn down a million dollars for a car advert and you just say, no, I'm not doing it.
20:17And the manager's like, it could rise to 1.5 if they use it in Canada as well.
20:22He's like, no, we're not doing it.
20:23So not many people stay that true.
20:26Yeah, I mean, that's true.
20:28But as I mentioned in the book, I now have a family of my own.
20:32Yeah.
20:32And would I make that same decision now?
20:35And the answer is, I wouldn't.
20:36No.
20:36So what does that say about me?
20:38I don't know.
20:38You're just a corporate shill like the rest of us, aren't you?
20:41Well, I think it says that you change, obviously, which I think everyone has to change.
20:45If you stay the same, you know, then you end up with being Gigi Allen.
20:50And that's, that's, that doesn't end well.
20:52It's an unsustainable life, isn't it?
20:54It is completely unsustainable, yeah.
20:55And so obviously you, you, you want to, you want to become the best well-rounded human being
21:03that you possibly can be.
21:05But you also want the best for your family, you know.
21:07I mean, this, this, I'm not saying that offers on the table, because it's not.
21:11But could I make that decision now?
21:13I don't, I mean, I'm not, I'm not even going to say that I don't know.
21:18No.
21:18I know I would go for the money.
21:20Yeah, of course.
21:21Because it's, you know, like you say, everything, all the priorities and the world change and
21:24everything changes, doesn't it?
21:25But that's why it's important to be an artist when you're young and all that stuff, because
21:29you don't have any responsibilities.
21:30You can be idealistic.
21:31Yeah, you can just throw yourself repeatedly against a brick wall with your daughter and
21:35your wife tied to you.
21:36No, no.
21:37You know.
21:38I mean, knowing you guys, you could have, you probably would have recorded that sound, sampled
21:41it, and used it to great effect in one of the records.
21:45Maybe they did.
21:46I know we've not got you for much longer, so I must remind people, Latitude 2026, 20 years
21:52of Latitude as well, and I've been quite a few times over those years, and it's always
21:56a fantastic experience, of course, in conjunction with The Independent as well.
22:01It's going to be so many fantastic bands there.
22:04You're going to get to see Steve twice, you're going to be at the Listening Post as well, talking
22:07about the book.
22:08Yeah.
22:09It's going to be absolutely brilliant.
22:10So it's possible if the first one was, so it's 20 years, so that's...
22:132006 must have been the first one, though.
22:16Really?
22:16But that's maths, isn't it?
22:18That's maths.
22:18Margaret's giving me the thumbs there.
22:20Yeah, all right, okay.
22:20Maybe, you could have been one of the first ones.
22:23It's possible.
22:24It is possible, yeah, yeah.
22:25Well, there you go, you see.
22:26It's all the more reason to get yourselves down and check out just one of the greatest,
22:33sort of, you know, a proper band, a punk ethos band who made some of the great records
22:38of the last 30 years, watching them live, it's going to be amazing.
22:42Steve Mason, thank you so much for joining us today.
22:45My pleasure, thank you for having me.
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