- 16 minutes ago
Triumph and Trials: Business Wins and Lessons. Hosted by Dr. Thomas Trautmann. Special guest Richard Blank
Where we dive deep into the minds of successful CEOs and business owners. Each episode features a candid conversation about their journey, exploring one failure, one success, and the invaluable lessons learned along the way.
Hosted by Dr. Thomas Trautmann, this podcast aims to uncover the strategies that drive real business growth and success. Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur or a seasoned executive, tune in to gain insights that can help you ethically persuade and achieve your business goals.
When you know from the start that your life won't be the one your parents thought for you, when you grab crazy opportunities and use your guts to drive you, you get the amazing life of Richard Blank! Learn his amazing lessons in this episode!
The podcast episode "Triumph and Trials: Business Wins and Lessons" featuring guest Richard Blank and hosted by Dr. Thomas Trautmann dives into the reality of entrepreneurship, focusing on brain science, ethical persuasion, and call center management. The show analyzes the emotional and psychological journey of a business owner by evaluating one major success, one failure, and the foundational lessons learned along the way. Core Discussion TopicsBuilding a Successful BPO: Richard Blank, the CEO of Costa Rica's Call Center since 2008, shares his direct experiences with leading agent teams an d expanding an outbound BPO campaign from scratch. Ethical Persuasion and Brain Science: Dr. Thomas Trautmann incorporates his "Happy Brains" framework into the talk. He highlights how understanding primal, subconscious fears and neural decision-making can maximize client conversion and team retention. The "IMPACT" System: The episode references structured business growth principles: Inspire, Market, Profit, Attract, Convert, and Trust. Effective Team Building: Blank emphasizes that reliable individuals who show up consistently and demonstrate thoughtfulness are far superior for scaling long-term teams than unreliable "fast talkers". Key Takeaways Gut-Driven Choices: Embracing unexpected opportunities and trusting your instincts can yield an extraordinary non-traditional career path. Human-Centric Leadership: True call center growth stems from how effectively you support, respect, and build relationships with your agents. Decision Optimization: Success requires balancing fast, primal brain reactions with rational, structured decision-making
https://youtu.be/b6qjFonXQxg
Where we dive deep into the minds of successful CEOs and business owners. Each episode features a candid conversation about their journey, exploring one failure, one success, and the invaluable lessons learned along the way.
Hosted by Dr. Thomas Trautmann, this podcast aims to uncover the strategies that drive real business growth and success. Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur or a seasoned executive, tune in to gain insights that can help you ethically persuade and achieve your business goals.
When you know from the start that your life won't be the one your parents thought for you, when you grab crazy opportunities and use your guts to drive you, you get the amazing life of Richard Blank! Learn his amazing lessons in this episode!
The podcast episode "Triumph and Trials: Business Wins and Lessons" featuring guest Richard Blank and hosted by Dr. Thomas Trautmann dives into the reality of entrepreneurship, focusing on brain science, ethical persuasion, and call center management. The show analyzes the emotional and psychological journey of a business owner by evaluating one major success, one failure, and the foundational lessons learned along the way. Core Discussion TopicsBuilding a Successful BPO: Richard Blank, the CEO of Costa Rica's Call Center since 2008, shares his direct experiences with leading agent teams an d expanding an outbound BPO campaign from scratch. Ethical Persuasion and Brain Science: Dr. Thomas Trautmann incorporates his "Happy Brains" framework into the talk. He highlights how understanding primal, subconscious fears and neural decision-making can maximize client conversion and team retention. The "IMPACT" System: The episode references structured business growth principles: Inspire, Market, Profit, Attract, Convert, and Trust. Effective Team Building: Blank emphasizes that reliable individuals who show up consistently and demonstrate thoughtfulness are far superior for scaling long-term teams than unreliable "fast talkers". Key Takeaways Gut-Driven Choices: Embracing unexpected opportunities and trusting your instincts can yield an extraordinary non-traditional career path. Human-Centric Leadership: True call center growth stems from how effectively you support, respect, and build relationships with your agents. Decision Optimization: Success requires balancing fast, primal brain reactions with rational, structured decision-making
https://youtu.be/b6qjFonXQxg
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PeopleTranscript
00:02dear listeners of the triumph and trials podcast today i'm super happy because the guy we have
00:07with us has exactly the same haircut as i have so let me welcome richard blank so richard let
00:13me start with with the very first question so tell us you are owning running a business for
00:18how long what type of business is that yes doctor first i'm so happy to be with you and on
00:24your
00:24podcast with your audience my name is richard blank i'm the proud ceo of costa rica's call center
00:31we are a bilingual dedicated call center that deals with sales customer support lead gen
00:37appointment setting have 150 strong about to celebrate our 17th year in business
00:43and it's pretty good journey of some twists and turns but i tell you what very satisfying
00:49so you've been uh working we for build that company 17 years ago or you joined it in the process
00:58and
00:58and became the ceo very smart question well in august of 2000 when i was 27 i was given a
01:05chance
01:06to come to costa rica for two months and work at a friend center well i kind of felt very
01:12at home there
01:12so i decided to stay worked at my friend center for four years so i could learn the business from
01:17the
01:17inside out not at sea level so i learned it i learned retention onboarding customer support
01:23sales seo affiliate management even some of the labor laws here which was great okay and so when i
01:30was in my mid 30s i was in between jobs and i decided to throw my hat in the ring
01:37so i created a
01:38website with just the experience i had i just didn't have the actual building yet and the phone
01:43started ringing and then in february 6 of 2008 a buddy of mine in florida hired me for one seat
01:49for
01:49one week yeah i actually did it it has to start with one deal right brother water in the desert
01:56i'm
01:56going to survive another day and so um from there the run didn't stop but i tell you what there
02:03were
02:04some dips it happened to me twice the first one was in 2010 when i lost my largest client i
02:10went from
02:10like 89 seats down to four that was not good and then that's cool if i may interrupt that's the
02:17traditional 80 20 era right where you have one client or 20 percent of your client making 80 percent
02:25of your revenue and 80 percent making 20 percent but when the 20 die your 80 percent are gone right
02:31listen i was willing to take what i could get but the five campaigns i never took was sports books
02:36casino stocks pharmacies or sweepstakes regardless of what you've seen in hollywood a lot of call
02:41centers do amazing work for companies small to medium size to retain upsell and get referrals from
02:47their clients and so um i would have loved to have had a more diverse portfolio but i took what
02:54i could
02:54get but this whale that i had gave me enough reserves so i could survive six months to eight months
03:00till i
03:00could build that business back but i was renting space at the time so you know my my building was
03:06slow my first two years i was renting a turnkey station at a blended call center so i really didn't
03:12have a lot of privacy but i could scale accordingly get my clients and have some capital then i was
03:18renting space and right when i rented that space and put in the lease for five years and put in
03:24about
03:2450 stations you know when i was building up the server moza and you know it's you lose the client
03:29and so um what do you do you could lick your wounds you could close up shop and keep the
03:36cash you have
03:36remaining travel a little bit and figure out what to do or almost as they say put it back in
03:43and when
03:43when you put your own money in not somebody else's and if it's money that you've already earned
03:49you know it's not really a stake in the game it's a little more spiritual than that you realize where
03:56that money could go what it could do for do you really believe in yourself to really bet on yourself
04:01and that's a nice thing to feel that you trust yourself enough to put your money behind it
04:06and um we did and fortunately we built the business back but then covid you know what that did to
04:13my
04:13industry doctor and this was interesting this is such a linguistic environment
04:17right people were feeding off the energy high-fiving you know really learning words and grammar and
04:23sentences but when everyone started working from home my business was able to survive but it
04:30destroyed any sort of synergy camaraderie buddy buddy you know it's like imagine working out at home
04:38compared to the gym you're not going to get a couple extra reps because no one's spotting you
04:42that's the difference and so um i'm fortunate to still be in business but that heyday of that floor
04:51being packed of hundreds of agents and walking the roads and feeling that energy that's long gone and
04:56so i miss it i miss it so maybe we're in the third and final chapter of my book and
05:04that's why i'm here
05:04today to pay it forward and share advice and let your budding entrepreneurs know to hang in there this is
05:11a
05:1112 round fight you need to pace yourself so you don't burn out when you yeah yeah that's what
05:19that's what i always say to people it's it's it's endurance it's it's long distance running
05:23and you may agree with me or not but i think that what we see nowadays with all those guys
05:29who pretend
05:30to become rich in you know snap of a finger overnight because they they had that viral video or whatever
05:37crap and and no in fact it's not true it's a bloody long run right you have to well so
05:45as we're talking
05:46about that what's your biggest success up to now in those in those years where you've been a ceo
05:53being vulnerable having myself out there i'm on your second podcast and i've met some amazing people
06:00and we talk about one another i'd like to be proud of what i've invested my time in sure i've
06:06done
06:06exceptionally well for myself but one i feel it's a luxury trade i was able to pay it forward in
06:11regards to linguistic education and use my learnings at the university of arizona in telemundo
06:18to teach something i was a terrible student but i love my teachers the fact that i'm a teacher
06:24really it's like the kid that got in trouble as a child and then they're a cop i was a
06:29terrible student
06:30and now i'm a teacher so go figure sometimes they're the best teachers um what's my greatest
06:35success my friend let's put the money aside because there will be 100 people that have made
06:40more than me and that are larger than me self-satisfaction the fact that this was not a family
06:46contact it wasn't in bread it wasn't something i learned a second language on my own great grandpa
06:53learned english from eastern europe when he came with the 20th but i as a great grandson decided to learn
06:58spanish and i did dedicated practice above and beyond what school asked for me i loved hanging
07:04out having coffee i love asking como se dice and learning new vocabulary words it's almost like
07:11the wizard of oz and we went from black and white to color the moment that you start speaking a
07:15second
07:15language the world becomes brighter you're more attentive you're translating which makes you more in
07:21the now compared to wandering and you're always wondering of expansive vocabulary just to be more
07:26descriptive it's you know spanish has the subjunctive tense it represents the desire and the doubt it's a
07:32romantic language and so the fact that i'm able to express emotion when i speak and really do it in
07:38a
07:38shakespearean way makes you seem better and so you're more interesting and what a gift what a gift that kept
07:45on giving and the fact that i can earn a living from it and angle it in a way where
07:49i could run a call
07:50center but hire the right people to manage this for me the machine you got to be kidding me doctor
07:56this was a gift but it was a gift i had to make myself because a lot of people have
08:02a blueprint for
08:03your life you're supposed to follow in your family's footsteps you're supposed to be a doctor
08:07or an accountant and an attorney or go into the real estate business but what happens to the one
08:13that's the artist that's the renaissance man that really feels a passion and doesn't want to be in a
08:18box no matter how much you pay them no matter how many clients you give them because they're your
08:23friends your parents no they want to live a true life it needs to be raw it needs to be
08:29felt and
08:32finally when it comes to you mentioned faking beforehand that's per the person and sometimes
08:40you need to be confident to ask a girl to dance i completely understand that but then again if you're
08:45if you're faking a certain success in order to make yourself feel better i feel sad for you yeah
08:52because golden jews lose its luster i'd rather have the real relationship with you doctor than paying
08:58for you to be my friend or you only liking me because i'm renting a lamborghini for a weekend
09:05or i'm paying for a certain hotel room and spending a budget on a credit card it's
09:09the wise man acts their wage because you will see me one day when my shirt is torn and the
09:18rain is on
09:19me and i don't have a dollar on me and you're going to judge me during that day and i
09:24all those instagram
09:25posts and you posing in front of cars and planes and parties and friends and stuff what's that going
09:32to do for you on a rainy wednesday when you're pushing your car because you ran out of gas by
09:37accident
09:38or there's a problem that's the real that's the real character that comes out and how many times
09:44have people been surprised and looked over and go i didn't think that was you and why are you gloating
09:49why are you crying why are you frustrated you were supposed to be the man and so truth is the
09:56best way
09:57because it's consistent as i say before put your chest out be assertive but don't be too aggressive
10:04and i think if you do that people approve of someone being bold and they like vigor they like
10:11grit they like the old school college tribe but like the greeks had that thing where you don't talk
10:18about your future successes because your tongue's not keeping up with what you're doing they only spoke
10:22about what they've already accomplished so they never told tall tales and i think that's a very nice
10:27governor for some people sometime i i think it's very nice to pace yourself of where you are yeah
10:34it's a healthier way in my opinion yeah i like that i agree i agree yeah so uh that was
10:42magnificent
10:42success so you already expressed one of of the of the few things that that happened of the few uh
10:49mishaps in the business that happened what were the the biggest uh failures or or the biggest failure
10:56you can we can also make it a singular just one uh and what did you learn out of it
11:04first is it wasn't financial because i was extremely conservative with the money i put my
11:09taxes and salaries before my own money and i wasn't going out with champagne and roses so
11:15let's put that aside it was delegating it was maybe bringing somebody in for a certain position
11:24that wasn't the right fit i i think that things need to be done organically and it's not me that
11:31promotes you it's the people you need to be respected by your colleagues in order for them to realize that
11:38you were the best and so i i like to promote anybody at any age at any stage i've had
11:4518 year olds
11:46that rocket to the top and guys that have been with me 10 years in their 40s that just you
11:50know
11:50they mosey on in do their great job but you know they're just pawns they're not knights yeah kings
11:56and that's okay they're still important on the board but you know they're not really making too
12:01many moves and so um you can't for i've tried to force a couple people that have been with me
12:06for
12:06years to do public speaking or in management but they prefer to be on the phone and they said richard
12:12instead of me standing up being uncomfortable and trying to train people for a week why don't you put
12:16somebody next to me so they can shadow and i can work with them on a one-to-one basis
12:21and they can
12:21feed off of that sort of energy i'm better in that way and i said you know what you're right
12:25and so um
12:27it's a great way to take a step back and realize right bus right seat and you know i i
12:34guess the final
12:36thing was was attrition rate there's natural attrition and there's 300 attrition in my industry
12:44amazon is here so doctor i'm going to lose people for scheduling conflicts your girlfriend works
12:51there closer to your home and if you're talented you might make more money but i tell you what i
12:56tell
12:56you what i have never given someone the walk of shame i'm not going to make you cry on the
13:01phone
13:02that's not what i'm here to do i'll call the balls and the strikes and give you some guilt
13:06but i know you're better than that and you might be out of character today so these are the sort
13:11of
13:11things i might need to bring to your attention so in a mature way you kind of see it i'll
13:15praise you
13:16in public but privately we might need to have a coffee and say hey tommy boy come on you did
13:2144 last
13:21week you're doing 10 today what's wrong with you you're supposed to be my main man and so
13:26people have issues outside the office it's not like an after school special or a happy movie with
13:32rainbows and sunsets at the end people take care of ailing parents they have children they have bills
13:38to pay they might be juggling school and work and so if you think you just see them when they
13:43come
13:43and when they leave it's just like a you know like a cartoon or apparition or something that's not
13:48right there's a second half to the story there are things that are behind the curtain and so
13:55i don't know about you but i've been given plenty of second chances and the real good people gave me
14:00a third chance and so um as i mentioned before the kid that breaks the window knows in the future
14:06how
14:06to fix them and clean them and so i can see the signs and i try to use preventative measures
14:13before
14:13it scales out of control and as long as they're not severely breaking the labor laws but if i see
14:19something that i can look the other way the face we learn the lesson then you got away with it
14:26but
14:26just don't do it again and um i don't know it's it's one of those things where it's a give
14:34and a take
14:34how much you invest in somebody what you want from them but then there's a point my man and i'll
14:40make my
14:40last point that you have your dignity i'm never going to beg for business i need someone naturally
14:45like a bird with an open cage if you really want to be here come back i'm not going to
14:50force you the
14:51cage door is open and uh i i think that's a healthier way compared to fear we're forcing somebody to
14:57do
14:58something yeah yeah you know what's interesting is very often i mean the the triumph and trials
15:04podcast podcast has now 10 12 interviews or so and yeah i would say that each time we come to
15:11the
15:11failure and lesson section yeah i would say 80 90 percent of the people it was about people
15:19problem it was about people problems it's very interesting it's not about i made the wrong
15:23decision it's oh yes i made the wrong decision because of the wrong person or i didn't see what
15:28was right in that person so it's very interesting to see that all circles back to being humans and
15:34and building human relationships and i think i i love the fact that you say that we are humans so
15:40there is one part of the story at work but there is another story running as the rest of their
15:45life
15:46because work is just one one third of of people's life oh yeah that's true you know it's so interesting
15:52when people fill out resumes and you ask certain things they're like yeah i want to be a supervisor
15:56yeah but i don't even know you you know and and and i appreciate that so so i do a
16:02little trick
16:03here doctor besides the bells and the whistles and your work experience and all of your rehearsed
16:09answers because you're excellent in the interview what about the zig and the zag there's no straight
16:14lines in nature come on thomas is going to ask me a really good question it's not on the script
16:19am i able to answer him so why don't you turn the paper over and give me a coming of
16:2612 age moment i want to know when you beat up a bully or saved a kitten when you are
16:32a hero for a
16:33day the moment you shed some skin as a human being maybe matured a little bit or learned your learned
16:38your life lesson and when i read things and i'm not expecting you to disclose secrets about yourself but
16:45i'll see some things that are canned and shallow and what they want me to hear but then someone talks
16:51about trying to learn an instrument or learning a grandma's recipe or helping their dad do some
16:57yard work and that was one of the greatest afternoons they ever had with them and i love
17:02them for it because yeah i can give them a nickname right yeah it's probably that last time you love
17:09nicknames and then through healthy manipulation when they're feeling blue i can remind them about
17:17grandma's beautiful apple pie come on you know you did it with the extra cinnamon on it and they're
17:23like you're right you're right can you smell it doctor and you're like i can smell it i go i
17:28know
17:28you can can you taste it i can taste it remember how sweet grammy was in the kitchen i do
17:35you feel
17:35better now buddy i do we'll go get them and that's just a wonderful way for us to just reset
17:42again in a
17:42healthy healthy way and then they say richard out of all the bosses you're the only one that ever
17:47asked me about grandma's apple pie they never even knew who i was and so when you get certain levels
17:53of
17:53depth you don't need to run to them the last minute while they're freaking out saying hey billy no no
17:58it's johnny oh i don't even know the kid's name what's wrong compared to come on over here tommy
18:04what's going on today and so i think i can cash in my chips right when it was normal for
18:12the one time
18:13when you realize it's serious and i'm and i'm being there and so i've seen that as a wonderful
18:18insurance policy for me to calm them down for a minute and realize hey don't judge me on the others
18:25we've had seven different conversations about seven different things before you were freaking out
18:30today so let's let's all give ourselves the benefit of the doubt and um that's one of the
18:37ways in which i've been able to preserve people here nice but up to how many people can you do
18:43that
18:43because at one stage i mean you still have a business to run right you you knowing everyone
18:49i mean it's fantastic i mean i i love the way you do things but i i would say that
18:54i don't know
18:55just throwing a number out of the air around 100 people maybe you cannot remember every one of them
19:00or have those conversations how deep do you want to plant your soil i'm not doing trees where it's
19:07four feet deep you're crazy but if we're putting little seeds in and i can put it in under one
19:13or
19:13two inches i can handle a hundred i just can't do your roots that's too much unless you've been with
19:19me
19:19okay okay and i've watched you grow but my mental ability and my muscle memory and also i do cheat
19:28i
19:28have their name tags on their desk come on of course i do not only that do you remember the
19:35stars that
19:35used to get in kindergarten when you do something well like the gold stars and stuff so when they
19:39have a sale i'll go put one on their things i'm like good job jimmy hey come on i know
19:45jimmy's
19:45man by the end of the week and so um you need to give yourself some buffers and i gotta
19:50have an
19:51excuse to be there if you're having a great day i'm going to give you a gold star and put
19:54it on your
19:54name so it keeps going around it and you play kindergarten everyone loves a gold star
20:01that's excellent so is there any other lesson that you would share with the that do you think
20:06you could could help other ceos and business owners of course you better back up what you're
20:12saying you're going to do unless you're coming in as an accountant to write checks if you're running
20:16a certain industry you better know how to fix that machine and so when i go out on the floor
20:21with all
20:21these budding warriors and people with 10 15 years experience besides looking good i gotta sound good
20:29and you can put me on any of my projects at any time at any call and i can match
20:36or exceed in regards to
20:37first call resolution the metrics the qualifying the soft skills you know i'm not saying i'm going
20:44to get more sales out of it than you but i'm definitely going to go a to z one to
20:49three on
20:49what we've been trained especially using military alphabet and positive escalations mentioning betty
20:56that transferred me to you doctor i'm going to mention it verbally and in writing so when i call
21:00your company back for my third podcast episode and betty answers the phone i'm going to get a hero's
21:05welcome and then they give me five more things about you and then the next thing you know you
21:10wonder why you're building such a healthy pipeline and you separate yourself from thousands it's
21:17that's why i've earned their respect and the fact that i'm an expatriate i've been here for 25 years
21:24i'm married to costa rican i pay my taxes i use my real name on the internet there's no alias
21:30and you
21:30want to hear something funny the name of my company is costa rica's call center i'm not even from
21:35here but i'm brazen enough to say that my company's costa rica's call center yes with the apostrophe s
21:41yeah of course you should be proud of it come on come on we're in class i'm front row center
21:47waving
21:48my hand with an apple i want to pass this class yeah doc we're going for it since day one
21:55since day
21:56one i was going for it with good faith and good intentions and uh that's why the stars became aligned
22:03nice so as we are on this trend what would be for today a key takeaway that you have for
22:09for for the
22:10listeners for for the audience a i oh yeah a i is it a threat to my industry i don't
22:17know i asked the
22:18buggy whip industry of course it is the industrial revolution the steam engine you name it but this is
22:25what i do see ai is amazing in regards to gathering let it bring 90 of the way let it
22:30do what it needs
22:31to do but that final 10 needs to be done through real interpersonal empathy through electromagnetic
22:40you know transfer yeah of what humans have with one another that's why a painting is better than a
22:47print live theater compared to you know the the cine and and someone's home cooked meal compared to a
22:54microwave you know thing at the store come on and i believe in the future with so much ai and
23:01so many
23:01things that are going to be amazing in one way but when you here's an interesting thought for you
23:07and your amazing audience you could go be a teacher in a school and not earn that much money but
23:15feel
23:15those are the steps you need to do or have the pure faith and passion and do what you do
23:20recite
23:21shakespeare in the park for tips and make 100 times that amount in fact a sherlock holmes episode had
23:27that of a beggar that used to repeat certain things in history and make more money than he was as
23:32a teacher
23:33and the thing is i'm trying to say is instead of focusing on spotify or youtube or instagram i mean
23:41we're
23:41not taylor swift it's just not going to happen and so you might need to if you need to be
23:46that one guy
23:47that plays the violin in the middle of the square downtown don't kid yourself if you don't get
23:51hired for private parties the local news doesn't film you you make the tips i remember watching venice
23:58beach videos and there was this one guy that was on roller skates i used to play jimmy hentrix and
24:02stuff
24:03and skate around famous and i think the most beautiful works of famous is not being chum in the water
24:10for
24:10sharks where you're just competing for a chunk and killing each other maybe you should go into the
24:15opposite direction of what everyone does cut right a little bit and then make your move and so
24:19um be the be the shakespeare in the park for tips compared to fighting for that position
24:26somewhere else where it just doesn't feel right because it will come around and you will get that
24:32exposure that you're looking for and you'll never lose the love for what you're doing the moment that
24:36you lose that fidelity and you sell your soul for money or because you're desperate and making bad
24:42decisions yeah yeah yeah then doctor it doesn't make any sort of sense and so finally you just got
24:48to keep it pure in any way that you can so you can remain on that on that course i
24:54love that thank you
24:55so much richard oh yeah if people want to uh want to talk more with you want to to hire
25:01you services
25:01whatever where can they find you how can they get in touch with you no i've already extended this
25:07invitation to you multiple times you got to come fly and visit me in costa rica so we can play
25:11some
25:12pinball and hang out okay that's a good idea but we can i don't think that you can accommodate us
25:17all
25:18so if someone before they come flying towards costa rica where can they find you i have a very large
25:25facebook fan page 140 000 and naturally when we put this there it will give you some more audience
25:32but it'll give your audience a real chance to see the pulse of my industry we are north of panama
25:36south
25:37of nicaragua costa rica is the only democratic society in central america no standing army so they
25:42put their money back into education nice a 95 literacy rate great infrastructure amazon hp intel or
25:48medical and ecotourism and finally if you want to shoot me an email ceocosta ricas call center.com
25:55and i tell you what i'm going to give you a special today if anybody mentions my buddy the doctor
26:01i will
26:02definitely do role play with you review your script give you tips and tricks it's not for free i'm paying
26:08it forward for my buddy and so uh i'd love to hear from you so that's a very generous offer
26:16richard and
26:16guys i invite you to get in touch with richard because that's that's gold so richard i want to
26:22thank you because uh it was it was great it was amazing i i knew it anyway so so thanks
26:29for having
26:30spent your time and your knowledge and your expertise with us here on triumphant trials and i hope we
26:36get you back soon i would love it i had the best time today thank you so much it was
26:40great spending time
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