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00:00Lissaro, interviewing Joey Amalfitano, April 22, 1998, County Stadium, Milwaukee.
00:15No, when you were...
00:16Yes, maybe, I have no idea.
00:19All right.
00:22Yes, when you were starting to play ball, did you have a sense of Italian ball pressure would come back?
00:28Yes, yes.
00:31I went as a youngster up to Wrigley Field, Los Angeles, which was the Pacific Coast League,
00:37and the Yankees played an exhibition game, and I went up to watch him in particular.
00:44I can remember yesterday I took a red car with some street cars,
00:49and went up with a relative who was a baseball fan.
00:54This guy was from the old country.
00:56His name was Tony Amalfitano, and we went, and luckily I got to see him.
01:01He got two hits, you know, one.
01:03He was two for four.
01:04Yes.
01:05I remember him.
01:06Oh, yes, I do.
01:07And then I got to meet him, and I consider us on the first name basis, and we're kind of
01:13friends.
01:15Do you identify yourself as part of that tradition as an Italian-American player?
01:19Well, the Italian part, I mean, how much recognition I received as a player.
01:26You know, I wasn't a household man, but I think the longevity of my career is probably brought to me,
01:33if there is recognition, because for the length of time I've been in the business, I've been in a long
01:38time.
01:38And I would think that more of my recognition came after I played, being mostly a coach, managed for a
01:47couple of years.
01:48Didn't get too much notoriety there.
01:50But as a coach, I think that I've probably received some because of, like I said, longevity.
01:59I'm aware of Frank Cosetti, who's Italian, coached third base in the Yankee for many years.
02:06Well, as far as longevity, length of service, on the lines, I've gone by him, which is important to me,
02:14because he was.
02:16I know all the Italians.
02:18Lazeri, too?
02:19Well, I've heard.
02:20I never knew Lazeri.
02:22I never knew him, but right up.
02:24As a kid, were you aware of those names?
02:26Yes.
02:26Yeah, I was a Yankee fan.
02:28All right.
02:28Because of Dimanche, I was a Yankee fan.
02:30Because of Dimanche?
02:31Yes.
02:31You grew up where?
02:33Southern California.
02:34My father was a commercial fisherman.
02:36He was a San Pedro.
02:36Yes, that's right.
02:38In California.
02:39I guess your dad was Sicilian.
02:40No, he probably not.
02:42Okay.
02:42From the island of Iskia, which you have to leave from Naples to get there, right?
02:47My grandfather was in Naples.
02:49Yeah.
02:51And I became aware of him growing up, and I used to listen to the games being recreated at that
02:57time.
02:58In Southern California.
02:59In Southern California.
03:01Yeah.
03:02And then I got, you know, like I said, I got to meet him, and I've had lunch with him,
03:06and I spoke to him on the phone a few times.
03:09Not recently, but whenever one of us sees somebody that they see each other, there's always an exchange below when
03:18it comes in.
03:19And that's just very, very important.
03:21When you were playing, and you played, I think, 54, you started?
03:25Yeah, 54, 55.
03:26That's kind of late in terms of the Italian ballplayers.
03:29Did you hear any kind of ethnic slur came to you because you were Italian?
03:34No, I don't think so.
03:35If I did, I don't.
03:37What about with fellow ballplayers?
03:39Did you have an identity with other Italian ballplayers?
03:41Well, I was, yeah, Sal Magley, John Antonelli was my roommate in my first year.
03:47Magley looked over at me like a father.
03:49I mean, he took me under his wing.
03:51Nobody messed with me.
03:52I'm talking about they tried to play a huge practical joke on me, the veteran players on the Giants.
03:59He put them straight right away, and we won't get into all that, but I was very protected by him.
04:07Do you think that was because of the ethnic connection?
04:09I'd have to say multiple choice.
04:12I think that was, yeah, I would think so.
04:16Plus, you know, they sized me up.
04:18I got on the scene.
04:19I was there because of a rule, not my ability, because I received over an extra amount of dollars as
04:24a youngster,
04:24so I had to stay on the 25, yeah, I had to stay on the roster, the 25-man roster,
04:30not just the 40, but the 25,
04:33and they just kind of, you know, nobody warmed up to me right away because here's a new kid that
04:38got this money
04:39and not proven, you know, what did I ever do?
04:43And so I guess they took a pretty, you know, they watched me closely, and I paid attention,
04:50and I didn't, Lord, no, they didn't have an ego.
04:53So, and I still, well, either that, I have an ego, but I'm born with it.
04:57I never changed.
04:58Well, I think people acquire the ego as they go on.
05:03I think he saw what I was about, and he took a liking to me, and I was very fortunate.
05:10And Antonelli, he chose me as a roommate, which was, of course, where he was a bonus player,
05:18and he went through an awful lot more than I did.
05:23But that was a nice, it was a nice foundation for me because I was young, inexperienced,
05:31and I got to go to all these major league cities and a major league ball team,
05:34and I never played because I wasn't ready to play.
05:38And I could have just had one heck of a nice time, you know what I'm talking about?
05:44Away from the field, just go goopy, you know, but I didn't do that.
05:48I think my sense of values and the way my parents raised me were in place,
05:54and I seized the, I really, truly, truly enjoyed the game,
06:00or else I wouldn't be in it as long as I have now.
06:02See, I respect it, so I feel that it's done an awful lot for me in the same token.
06:07To be honest with you, Larry, I think I've done something for it.
06:10I think so.
06:11I don't go around.
06:12You don't want to?
06:13Nah.
06:15Someone like Magna or Antonelli, did they clearly identify themselves as Italians?
06:20Yes.
06:20Yes.
06:21Yeah, very proud of it.
06:22They were very proud of it, yeah.
06:24Some of that's been lost, obviously, as time has gone by.
06:30I wonder, you know, the players today are very talented, and, you know, I don't know.
06:40I don't get into that, but it is a little different.
06:43It is a little different.
06:44I don't, is it easier for the players today?
06:48I don't think playing the game is any easier.
06:50It's still a difficult game, but I think that we make it more pleasant for them.
06:58I mean, they are catered to, and rightly so, they're in the entertainment business.
07:06I think because of the industry, the way it is today, the player has a great deal more protection
07:14because of the players' association, which is, you know, it's a union, and when you have
07:19a union, it protects its members, and rightfully so.
07:22And those years when I first started, you're talking about Magali and Antonelli, now, that's
07:28a different era in that the association wasn't as strong as it is today.
07:33Did it even exist?
07:35Well, it started.
07:35No, it started in, it started when I first came in 54, 55, but it was nowhere where it
07:44is today.
07:45You know, golly, I mean, you know, have you ever heard of a strike?
07:48I've heard a strike on the docks.
07:50Right.
07:50It said, you know, longshoremen, they go on strike, fine, everything shuts down.
07:54Or the cannery workers, or the fishermen, never thought that would ever happen in this
08:01industry, but it's happened not once, but several times, which doesn't separate us, in
08:06my opinion, it's sad, because it's not to separate us.
08:12I thought it was always kind of special.
08:13Mm-hmm.
08:14It's still special, but it's been tarnished.
08:17I don't care what they said.
08:18You know, whoever, this guy, that guy said, well, we're coming back from 94 and all that.
08:23You know, I hang out with, hang out.
08:27I got some friends I grew up with, and we meet every Saturday morning, and this interview
08:31is going too long.
08:31Anyway, we meet every Saturday morning, and we have coffee, and then we go to practice.
08:38And I grew up with these guys, and they hear them talk, you know, and St. Peter's kind
08:43of a blue-collar, and I'm like, you know, Milwaukee, you know, and you know, those guys, they still
08:50are scarred by what happened.
08:54One more question.
08:55When you were, say, telling your folks, say, I want to be a ball player, do they support
08:59that, or would they?
09:00Yeah, you can't do that?
09:02Yeah, no, no, no, but I was fortunate that my dad didn't insist on me going fishing.
09:08See, he was a commercial fisherman.
09:10He owned his own boat, and by the way, he was very good at it.
09:13You know, like, he was all a flamer.
09:15This guy could, you know, like Ted Williams, those guys could all hit 300.
09:18My father hit 300.
09:19Fish.
09:20Fish.
09:20Yeah, he hit 300 every year.
09:22He throw me in a lot of runs, too.
09:27Anyway, he didn't want me to go fishing.
09:32I finally got an opportunity to go when he had a deckhand get injured, but he always kind
09:36of kept me away from that, because I don't think he truly wanted me to do that.
09:40And when I did go, and I had a chance to play either Saturday or always on Sunday when I
09:45was
09:45an amateur, before a professional, he would, no matter where he was in the summertime, he'd
09:49bring the boat in.
09:50This was in the summertime of school.
09:52He'd bring them so I could play, and they'd wait, and I'd go back out.
09:55But then, you know, he kind of realized that I was very interested in this.
10:03And when I signed my contract, it's a very interesting story.
10:08He was working on his boat.
10:10They were working on the engine, and I was a miner.
10:14And the two guys, Evo Fusix and Doug Schroeder, then the New York Giants, he came to the house,
10:20and I'm going to do this, and I'm going to sign this contract, but I'm a miner, and I
10:23have to have my mother and father sign it.
10:25So I went down and got him, and my dad spoke broken English.
10:28His name was Frank Francisco, and brought him home, and he thought, anyway, we sat there,
10:34and he didn't ask how much it was, nothing.
10:37He said, is this what you want to do in Italian?
10:39I said, yeah, this is what I want to do.
10:40So he signed it, and the three of them had to have a little glass of wine.
10:44I didn't get any, and then I took him back down the boat.
10:48This is great.
10:49This is the greatest part about it.
10:50He had asked me, he says, how much money did you sign for?
10:54Now, keep in mind, it's an Italian, he started.
10:56And I told him $35,000, and he looked at me, and he said, isn't this a great country?
11:03In Italian, he said, isn't this a great country?
11:06Isn't this a great country?
11:08It's a great story.
11:10You know, he worked very, very, very hard.
11:12And he was successful because, like I said, okay, that's a good story.
11:18That's it.
11:19Did you speak Italian?
11:21Yeah, a little bit, a little bit.
11:22Well, up until I was five, I spoke nothing but Italian.
11:24And then when they threw me in school, I forgot it, but I could understand it.
11:30Then when I went fishing with him, I picked up a few words, but never anything.
11:38I have to think about it too much to say it, and the conversation has gone by very hard.
11:43I mean, just lately, though, Billy DeLore is Italian, our traveling secretary.
11:49Okay.
11:49So he and I have been firing back and forth.
11:51Oh, really?
11:52Yeah.
11:52When Tommy was here, that was fun because, like right here, this coach is back.
11:59He'd just yell out on the tag.
12:00Is that right?
12:01He wouldn't have to do anything yet.
12:03Oh, no, we had fun.
12:04Like, what would he do?
12:05Yeah, well, whatever he wanted.
12:07Hit the ground or make him steal it.
12:08Yeah, yeah.
12:09Oh, yeah.
12:09It was, I can remember, no, just, yeah, he'd laugh like hell when he'd do it because there
12:14was no physical sign like this here.
12:16He'd just yell kind of like, you know, we have a...
12:19different cultures here on our team.
12:21We have the Koreans, Japanese, we have the Dominicans, right?
12:25So they speak in their language, and I'll be honest with you, I don't understand it all
12:28the time, so all of a sudden he conspired with the Italian.
12:31It's kind of a...
12:34It's fun.
12:35Fun.
12:36Yeah.
12:37Like if he wanted to repeat a sign, he would say, nada was, I mean, do it again.
12:41Do it again.
12:42Nada was.
12:43It's in our dialect.
12:44But anyway, we had some trouble.
12:46Did you have something like for a hit and run or a steal?
12:50Yeah, you got it out.
12:50Yeah?
12:53In Los Angeles, you could do it.
12:55Because we're in the third base, then.
12:57In the third base?
12:59In the dugout.
13:00You're going to know what we're saying.
13:02We're in a lot of trouble.
13:04Well, you better check his name first.
13:07Oh, that's for sure.
13:08Well, listen, Tommy didn't do it as long as he did, not knowing all that stuff.
13:11He's a graphic.
13:12Yeah, that's it.
13:13He's someone who obviously wears...
13:15There's a guy now.
13:16There's a cleave.
13:17Now, you talk about a guy with his...
13:19There is a guy that wears it very, very proudly.
13:23Very, very, very proudly.
13:25Oh, jeez.
13:25Yeah.
13:26Oh, my God.
13:27Yeah.
13:28Frank Torrey last summer, he was saying that about...
13:32Yeah, it wears it very...
13:33They're really pushing the draw.
13:35Yeah.
13:35He's strong.
13:37Well, I got...
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