How psychopathy actually works, according to a diagnosed psychopath

Insider

Lewis Raymond Taylor is a life coach and entrepreneur who says he was diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder, a condition often associated with psychopathy. He spent his younger years dealing with violence, addiction, and crime, including serving prison time for grievous bodily harm.  Taylor explains to Business Insider what it feels like to live with little to no emotion, how psychopathic traits shaped his behavior, and why he believes those same traits can be redirected toward success. He also discusses manipulation, risk-taking, and detachment in both criminal environments and business.  He rebuilt his life and founded The Coaching Masters, a life coaching company he says is now worth $25 million. Taylor's story is also featured in the Netflix documentary "The Psychopath Life Coach." For more: https://www.instagram.com/lewisraymondtaylor?igsh=MTF5ZnVzcW45cG5vaw== https://thecoachingmasters.com  If you or someone you know is dealing with substance misuse or mental illness, call the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration's National Helpline (1-800-662-4357) for 24/7, free, confidential treatment referral and information.

Transcript

00:00My name is Lewis Raymond Taylor. I'm a diagnosed psychopath. I was sentenced to prison for

00:04one punch that left a man in a coma. This is everything I'm authorized to tell you.

00:10I understand emotions, but I don't feel them. So when people say, how do you feel about that? I say,

00:14well, actually, I don't. I think about that. I could go a month and not feel anything, you know,

00:19and every now and again, I'll just get a little flicker and I'll go, oh, there's there. I had a

00:23little something there. I'm a life coach today. I would not be the success I am without being a

00:32psychopath. So I can always remember being like a bad quote kid and naughty, mischievous, cheeky.

00:40I also remember also having a very toxic relationship with my dad specifically. In 2014,

00:47I'd got back from an extremely chaotic summer abroad where I was drinking, fighting every day. I was

00:53getting involved with all sorts of situations. I would start fights. I would start trouble. I

00:58wanted to feel something and the adrenaline from doing something bad. When I was fighting,

01:03I was fighting to hurt, to win, to feel powerful. I wouldn't stop. Like people would have to drag me

01:09off. I would be punching and punching, stamping and stamping and stamping. And I got, I am,

01:14and other people are very lucky that that didn't, I didn't end up killing somebody. I got a bit of

01:20a

01:20thrill from knowing that people saw me in that way. And I would do it for the attention. I was

01:25just

01:25doing anything I could to push things right to the edge, to the point where I could die. And I

01:30didn't care. It seems like a silly thing, but I would literally swing from balconies and I would

01:34be underneath and I'd be swinging from one arm and just hanging off. And I'd see everyone going,

01:39oh my God, look up there at Lewis. And I would just, that for me was more important for getting

01:44the look at Lewis. He's so crazy. It was more important than I could drop and die. And I wouldn't

01:49even think I could drop and die. It wouldn't go through my mind because that fear response is just like

01:53numb. And I realized that I would become an alcoholic because I had no longer was doing

01:58it out of choice. And I realized I now needed to, and I was also still being aggressive.

02:01I'd already committed loads of crimes since the age of about 13, all sorts of different ones.

02:07The last time I went to prison was a time that I hit a guy in a taxi queue and

02:11he had a brain

02:13hemorrhage and was in a coma and then did make a full recovery. But I was sent to prison for

02:1818

02:18months for grievous bodily harm. I was out one night and actually I was, I jumped to the front

02:24of a taxi queue. I don't know if I did it on purpose or I didn't realize there was a

02:28queue or

02:28what have you, but some guy shouted, you know, shouted at me and said something.

02:32When I think about this guy that I hit, all I can see actually on this occasion is my dad's

02:36face.

02:36I was definitely angry because of my dad, he would hit me, he would be abusive at me,

02:40call me a buffoon. But this particular time, because he was older, I was 24 by the time this happened

02:45and he was 40. Like I saw that as an old man. And he shouted at me and I just

02:54remembered just seeing

02:55my dad and just punching him in the face. And his head like flat on the ground, his face flat

03:02on

03:02the ground actually, to the point where he was just stone cold knocked out. And then blood started

03:08coming out of his head. So I thought that's it, I just looked straight to my left and I saw

03:11the CCTV

03:12cameras outside the train station at the time. And I just thought that's, that's it. You know,

03:16and I'd like to say, I'd like to tell you that my first thought was a man, but it wasn't,

03:19it was,

03:20it was me. It was like, I'm going to go to prison. Um, so I put my coat over him

03:24thinking,

03:24literally thinking he was dead and then put my hands up and waited for the police to arrive.

03:28And, uh, within a short period of time they had to put me in the back of the car, sent

03:32me to the

03:32police station. Luckily he hadn't died. And, uh, I was sent to prison because I pleaded guilty at the scene.

03:38I got a lot of time reduced in the UK. You serve nine months in prison and then you serve

03:43nine

03:43months on probation. So I actually only served nine months inside prison on that occasion.

03:47In probation, like later on, I did reach out to him as an opportunity for restorative justice.

03:52At the time, I honestly couldn't tell you whether I was doing that just to,

03:56you know, tick a box or whatever. But then later on down the line, I did want to like,

04:00see if I could contact him just to see what could happen. And, you know, but he, he wasn't interested

04:05in,

04:05uh, in responding. When it happened at the time, I don't, I don't have those responses where I

04:10think about fear or what people think or what's going to happen. There is of course a inconvenience

04:15and a frustration of the consequences of the inevitable prison time that I didn't,

04:22obviously didn't want, but there wasn't, there's not associated with fear. It's not like,

04:25what's going to happen when I go to prison? It's just, I'm going to be in prison for a long

04:28time.

04:29And now looking back, what do you think about this reaction? What does it make you feel

04:32now with everything that you know about this?

04:36So looking back on it, and this is the most difficult thing for me to share,

04:40because this is the thing that paints me in the, in the worst light in terms

04:43of the stereotypical way of people will perceive it, but they have to truly understand it.

04:47But when I look back on it now, I feel the same, because I don't feel anything.

04:51I understand shouldn't have happened. And you know, what stupid kid I was and what an unfortunate

04:57situation that man found himself in, and it shouldn't have happened to him.

05:02But it's just not associated to a visceral feeling. It's associated to a cognitive

05:07understanding of knowing that, you know, that shouldn't have happened and that's bad and wrong.

05:12But whatever remorse or guilt feels like, I just have no idea what it could feel like.

05:23If I could explain psychopathy in one sentence, I would personally just describe it as somebody

05:28who experiences the world and emotions differently to other people. So psychopathy is not in the DSM

05:36manual. You can't be any more diagnosed with actually just being a psychopath. You have to have

05:40the underlying clinical condition, which is an antisocial personality disorder, which is what I have.

05:45The main traits of psychopathy are impulsiveness, manipulation. There's a very low risk fear

05:55tolerance as well. The emotional bluntness or a complete lack of emotion. And that obviously

06:01translates to many things, lack of remorse, lack of guilt, a lack of concern or care for other people,

06:07if not trained and understood. I feel almost nothing. And sometimes I'll use language to just make sense

06:13to people and I might say the word feel, but I don't actually feel it. I understand it. I can

06:18get

06:18to emotion, but I can also just take it off. Like I could never think of something ever again if

06:24I

06:25wanted to. Like if I go, that's too difficult, I can just don't think about it. Certain things like

06:31funerals, weddings, hierarchy of authority, they just don't really make sense or mean anything to me.

06:38It's only now that I have such an awareness around the diagnosis that I really start to compare and

06:43contrast myself against other people and just realized the disparity of what I feel versus

06:48what they feel. And then I realized over time, especially from dealing with people one to one,

06:52that it was actually everyone that was like that or most people anyway. And it was me that was different.

06:59You know, it was me that was probably acting in a way that I shouldn't have.

07:01Now I can actually ask the question. I can say to people, you know, when this happens,

07:05what do you feel? What sensations are going on in your body? Do you actually have

07:09like a sinking feeling, a warm fuzzy? Does it actually feel warm and fuzzy? And I can actually

07:15understand that.

07:21I am not emotionless. I just experience it differently. That's the thing. I know it's alien to people,

07:28but I think it, I don't feel it, but it doesn't mean to say it's not there. For example, I

07:32have

07:33partners. I have love in my life, but it's just not a felt sense love. Like I have to be

07:37shown it.

07:38I have to understand it. I have to believe it, you know, and it becomes as a part of a

07:42bond over time

07:43rather than like an immediate emotional connection. But I know that I love people. I get to the point

07:47where I can, someone will say, do you love them? And I can say yes or no. And I don't

07:51know why,

07:51but it's just a part of my brain that's decided they've now met that criteria because of things

07:56that have happened. And I know from my actions of what I would do for that person. So if I

08:01would,

08:01it's going to sound extreme, but if I would like kill for that person, then I know that must mean

08:04I love them. So it's kind of different, but I make my own map of the world based on what

08:11I have

08:11available to me. And I relate it as close to language and a normal human experience of a sort of

08:18normal neurotypical person.

08:20How about the birth of your son?

08:22Do you know what? So when my dad died, I cried. When a girlfriend cheated on me when I was

08:30younger,

08:30I cried and I felt it as well. So I have had times where I've been like hurt. I was

08:36really worried

08:37I wasn't going to cry when my son was born because I just would have felt cold. And when I

08:42say feel,

08:43it's just like, it's the only way to explain it. But I would have just reinforced to myself that I'm

08:47this

08:47bad, unlovable man that's going to not be able to break this pattern with my son that happened with

08:53my dad. I know not everybody does anyway, but I just wanted to, because I wanted it to be the

08:58moment

08:58where hopefully he could, you know, bring something out in me that I'm waiting to see in myself.

09:04And he came out and I cried. So I was very relieved. And that was the first time I've ever

09:09cried out of

09:09happiness ever. I've never experienced that. I've never, I didn't know how people could have emotions

09:13through happiness. It's not, it doesn't reach that intensity for me. Right. Very flat.

09:17Do you love him?

09:19Yes. I love him.

09:21So that's a feeling.

09:23It's a feeling, but it's like I said, it's, so if you want me to talk about it quickly. So

09:28I definitely love my son. This is difficult to admit because I wouldn't want anyone to, I wouldn't want

09:34him to see it and misunderstand it, but it's different. It's still different. Like I can't deny it. Like

09:39it's stronger than anything else. I'm able to be away from him and not think about him every day.

09:44Like I'm able to detach my emotions. I, it took me a while to build that bond, that connection.

09:50It still feels surreal at times. I'm probably not as loving as a normal dad would be. And that's,

09:56that's a shame to say, because you know, I don't wish that upon myself or anybody because it's a shame

10:02to be able to have to say that. But it's the truth. You know, I want to try and be

10:06as truthful as possible.

10:06So I love him in the ways that I've explained. And he's on the highest end of the spectrum that

10:11hits above that threshold. But it's probably still less. And hopefully by the time he reaches

10:19sort of an older age, I've worked on myself even more so that I can show him that I love

10:23him in

10:24every aspect that he's going to feel it and need it and understand it. Relationships look very different

10:28to me because I, I understand like the love languages, love languages are different things.

10:33Like you experienced love through physical touch or through gifts or for acts of service and

10:37present quality time and different things. And for me, it has to be, um, it has to actually be

10:44the acts of service, which sounds like a really chauvinistic thing, but it's not

10:50because I really like to contribute and be a good partnership with somebody.

10:54I like to be the provider and I like to know that I am, but they have to show me

10:57something

10:58back. Otherwise I just can't see it. So I would never force that upon somebody, but I, but if

11:02someone, if a woman cooks me a meal, I, I, I would feel as close to as you would perceive

11:08loved

11:08because I would say they're doing that because they love me. It's not, you do it because you

11:13should. It's, I appreciate that. And I can now see, because if you try and radiate love to me,

11:18I think I'm not going to feel it. That has to be important in a relationship. It has to be

11:21quite

11:21a traditional dynamic like that. I might not have whatever. I just can't, whatever everyone else has.

11:26I know that I have an element of care for people and I still want to do the right thing.

11:30If anything,

11:31I think it could be more potent coming from me because I have to make a logical choice to care.

11:37Now I have what is known as cognitive emotions. And specifically, like if we talk about empathy,

11:43which is a big part of psychopathy, I just don't emotionally relate to people. Somebody could tell

11:49me, they could tell me anything, absolutely anything. And I wouldn't feel nothing. And that's not

11:54that I don't care. Sometimes I really am invested in thinking, you've been through a tough time.

12:00You need some help. I'm someone that help you. I'm going to help you. And I genuinely want to.

12:04Like I'm invested in doing that because I can see clearly and understand even more rationally,

12:10maybe some people with emotions sometimes, because sometimes they're clouded and they're overwhelmed

12:15by emotion to the point where they're actually have to distance themselves from that situation.

12:18Me, sometimes I can logically just pull through that cloud and just help those people. So it's not

12:22I don't care or want to help. It's that I just don't feel it. When I was 17, I had

12:27my first major

12:28girlfriend. And that's something I felt because at this point I felt very bad and unlovable because I

12:35either didn't feel it or wasn't getting it or wasn't receiving it in the way that I could understand.

12:40I just felt unloved. It felt like a void. And when I had this girlfriend, she would invite me around

12:45to her family's house. We'd watch TV. I would talk with her family. She had lots of brothers

12:52and sisters. And it was like, okay, this is what family's like. And I felt something. I felt like,

12:57oh, okay, maybe I'm actually okay because they've accepted me in and this is normal.

13:02But then my alcohol was progressing and she had an argument with me one night and she just threw

13:06at me, well, I cheated on you. And it just really hit me. To this day, I've had quite a

13:12lot of trauma,

13:12but I think that one probably is the one that I remember feeling the most because I felt loss.

13:17I felt confirmation that I was bad and unlovable. And I completely went berserk. And the ambulance

13:26arrived and I was trying to fight them off and they had to pin me down and stitch me up.

13:31And then I

13:31escaped from the hospital and was section under the Mental Health Act and it was just complete.

13:36And I was screaming and telling them to let me die. That's how distraught I was over that.

13:41And I think every, although I've had some form of emotion and then these extreme moments,

13:46it kind of erupts. I think with that scenario, it was, it felt like loss. I think if I could

13:50connect

13:50it to what I guess that would be, because I, in that moment, I knew we would never be together

13:55again.

13:56I knew it confirmed to me all the things that I hoped weren't true about me, that I was this

14:01bad

14:01and unlovable kid. I was, this wouldn't have happened. And it was confirmation that I'd lost her.

14:06And it kind of just hit me all in that moment.

14:14I was very naughty from a young age. I don't know exactly where that came from. If it was like

14:19inherently naughtiness, part of this condition or just who I was. But like, one of my earliest

14:25memories of kind of my mum coming into nursery and having to take me home straight away after,

14:32because it was a, come and see your, see your child at nursery day. And everyone else was sitting

14:38quietly in the carpet. And I was running around the room, banging a drum, singing happy birthday,

14:42because I was just in a world of my own. I was nearly expelled from primary school,

14:46which is very unusual because you're like, no one really gets expelled from primary school,

14:50but I nearly did. And I was expelled from secondary school. I think my environment played a big

14:53factor in the way that I am. I couldn't tell you if we wound back the clock and, you know,

14:59I had a different upbringing, I might be, I might feel the emotions. I really couldn't tell you.

15:03I really bounced between thinking to myself, no Lewis, you are so different to people that this is

15:09just you, you got to accept it. And you got to just allow that to be part of who you

15:13are to,

15:13no, actually, I think I could be like everyone else. And there's this little tiny flicker of a flame that

15:19keeps on getting snubbed out that maybe I could ignite. But then I go, no, I can't.

15:25Some point, something must have clicked for me. And I don't remember what happened where I decided

15:28I wanted to be famous. And this is about seven or eight years old. And I thought, okay, I'll do

15:33the normal things you do when you want to be famous, singing, acting and dancing. And I happened to be

15:37actually quite okay. You know, I don't know if I was a star, but I was actually, I could sing,

15:42I could dance, I could act at an amateur level. So I did do plays and stage school and even

15:48ballet

15:48and tap dancing, which is crazy. So thinking about it now, it's like this psychopath kid,

15:52a psychopath guy who's violent criminal, who was once a ballerina. So that's the sort of

15:58contradiction of life. At one of the stage schools I was at, one of the people at the stage school

16:05I

16:05was in, invited me back to his house. And he was, he wasn't like an older man. He was, he

16:11was just a

16:11lot older than me. Like on reflection, he was probably 18 and I was probably 10 or 11, but I

16:17actually don't

16:17know. And, uh, invite me back to his house. I thought nothing of it. And he was, and I somehow

16:21managed to, my parents let me sleep over his house. And I'm just trying to think about how that even

16:26happened. I stepped over at his house and, um, it started normally like watching TV. And then

16:35he like held my hand and it was just the weirdest thing. And I was just froze. I was thinking,

16:39why is this guy holding my hand? But I just, and then a minute, like a minute passed,

16:43I realized I hadn't pulled my hand away and I was thinking, Oh God. And then it was like

16:50classic bloody stereotypical climbing on the top bunk, you know, came up on the top bunk where I was at

16:56and, uh, yeah, sexually abused me. And at the time I didn't really know what happened because I was so

17:02young. I'd never even had any experiences like that. So I didn't know, like, did he, did he know this

17:07was gonna happen? Did it, did I, should I have said like, no, did I participate? Did I actually do

17:12this

17:12with him? No idea. Um, and that was something that I completely suppressed to the point where

17:17I don't think I even really even remembered it until I was in rehab, uh, 20 at 24. And one

17:23of the

17:23stories, one of the things they do in treatment is to get you to share your life story. And I

17:27actually

17:28thought, I don't know what that is. So I had to literally get a bit of paper out and think,

17:31okay,

17:31well this happened. And then there, and then when I went into rehab, you, you go in a group and

17:38you

17:38share your story in front of a group. And I didn't think my story was going to be that significant

17:41at the

17:41time. Cause I'm in, I'm in here with like heroin addicts and homeless people. And I'm thinking

17:46their stories are going to be crazy and mine's going to be nothing. And I just sharing all these

17:50things and I just see their jaw drop to the ground. And I just thought, oh my God, this is

17:54serious

17:54stuff. And that was the first time I'd ever shared that. So that was, that was significant. I didn't

17:59feel anything at the time apart from confusion. I don't feel anything about it now. I don't actually

18:03think it made any difference to me, but it must've done. Like psychologically, clinically,

18:09logically, you look at it and you think, of course that must've affected somebody. But I couldn't tell

18:13you, oh, from that day I felt so whatever, cause I haven't. So anyway, that must've had an effect.

18:20I did have an emotionally shut down family, which of course is going to contribute to

18:25the learned behavior. My dad was very like almost psychopathic. My mom was very emotionally detached,

18:31but I think she showed emotion. I always thought my family was normal. I knew we didn't have the best

18:35relationship, but I didn't know. I couldn't compare it to, oh, this should be like this,

18:39or that should be like that. They would provide some parental care in the way that they understood

18:43it. But from an emotional support place, it was just non-existent because they didn't know how to

18:48express that in their own way. So my mom, she, she wouldn't really, she felt, she finds it very

18:52uncomfortable to say, I love you or cuddle. Even to this day, she, like we try and make an effort

18:57now,

18:58but it's still very rare and awkward when it happens. So, uh, so I know that it's there with her.

19:05It's just, uh, she wasn't able to share it. I think I remember from the age of probably seven years

19:10old, being so angry and frustrated with myself because I thought it was my fault that this

19:14relationship, um, had broken down between me and my dad. Every time I even went to speak to him,

19:19somehow it would turn into a blazing row. He could become, uh, violent, but it was,

19:25it wasn't often. I can't say that he beat me all the time, you know, it did do it. Um,

19:30but it was more the, uh, the emotional abuse or, um, the things he said. My brother also actually

19:35very emotionally detached. Uh, we got onto a certain extent because we were similar in age. He was

19:42five years younger than me and I kind of brought him into my lifestyle, really same sort of group of

19:48friends. I was selling drugs. I got him to sell drugs for me. That's kind of not what you would

19:52do

19:53with your family. But for me, it, it didn't make it to me. It made more sense. Actually

19:57to me, it's like, if I'm going to have someone that I trust, like I would prefer to have my

20:01brother

20:01doing this. Most people's thoughts would be, what if that happened? What if this happened?

20:05What if that, oh, that's bad. What's it going to, but it just didn't enter my brain.

20:08It started off juvenile sort of silly behavior and then eventually turned into things like

20:12shoplifting and smashing windows and, and then drink and drugs. I started quite

20:17small sort of weed at 13, alcohol sort of 15, cocaine by the time I was 18. And at that

20:24point,

20:24I was addicted to cocaine.

20:31So when I was diagnosed with having an antisocial personality disorder, it was a part of the system.

20:36So I had just committed some very violent crimes. Um, and I was very young and I've got a lot

20:41of

20:41trauma from my life. And I think with the traits of being so impulsive and reckless and had, I had

20:47absolutely no regard for myself or my future. Consequences just was completely out of my head.

20:55So I hurt a lot of people, uh, not random people, of course, these were people that I'd,

20:59you know, got into contact with out on a night of drinking or what have you. So I went to

21:03probation

21:03and they do what's called a pre-sentence report. And it's where they kind of analyze you and your

21:08background and your behavior and your environment to be able to give a bit of a background package of

21:13information to the judge. I went in there, crossed my arms, said, do what you want, don't care.

21:17You look, she said, you're looking at eight years of prison. I was like, so what? I don't care.

21:20Do you not care about the people you found? No. Uh, do you not care about what you've done? No.

21:24And I just never thought about it. I didn't think, oh, I'm not displaying remorse. I'm not, I just,

21:29just factually answering the questions. And I just actually did not care whatsoever.

21:33And she was obviously quite perplexed by those responses and sent me for a psychiatric assessment.

21:39I didn't realize that was not normal. I thought that was just another part of this

21:43court process. It turns out it wasn't as it turns out she noticed something in me that was unusual.

21:48And then I met with a psychiatrist. They did an interview, asked me those questions. Nothing

21:54really stood out to me. I didn't think, oh, this is, this is unusual. I just thought this is what

21:59every criminal kind of is going to be saying. And, uh, yeah, came back with antisocial personality

22:05disorder. And I just, again, I just brushed it off and I thought, well, he's just thinking I'm,

22:10I'm mental because I've committed all these crimes and he's a goody two shoes. And he just doesn't know

22:15that I'm just being a bit of a bad lad. I didn't realize there's anything, you know, wrong with me,

22:18quote unquote. And that was the start of the diagnosis. At the time, I didn't think the diagnosis

22:22was correct. When I was diagnosed with the antisocial personality disorder, I don't

22:28think that I shared it that much, to be honest. I remember with the second one with the bipolar,

22:32because I'd purposely gone to get that, uh, evaluation. Um, I shared it with just one I

22:38can remember. I shared it with someone in the pub and they just said, I thought, I can't remember

22:43the exact words now, but it was something along the lines of, I'm glad you figured out what it was,

22:46mate. Like, like he knew it wasn't this one moment where I'm like, I'm a psychopath. You know,

22:52it was like, it's, it's clues and signals and things throughout my entire life that looking back

22:58in it, they kind of all fit in and you go, oh yeah, actually. So it's a, it's a evolving

23:03process

23:03of coming to terms with any condition that you might have, right? Back then I had no need to mask,

23:09to display, to try and act, perform. If someone said, how did you attack that man? I would just tell

23:15you exactly how I attacked them, not realizing that maybe I should probably explain this in a different

23:20way and look a little bit different in how I share that information. And as I got into life coaching,

23:26and I was, I was coaching people and I was helping people, I would hear their reactions.

23:30I was just thinking, surely not. Like you cannot feel that way or think that way and act that way

23:35and feel. And then it was a pattern. They're all like it. They're all, they're all like this. They

23:39all care about these things. They all react about nothing. You know, it's out of, to me,

23:44it was frustrating because I just didn't understand it. Psychopaths, they still get frustrated,

23:49aggressive, angry, irritated. The worst feelings you can have, they still have.

23:59The most common myths about psychopathy is that they're bad people. They can do bad things and

24:06it's much easier for them to do bad things. They can manipulate, they can lie, they can harm,

24:12but that is still a choice. And that's largely because they're uneducated and unaware of who they

24:17are. And they haven't learned to transmute those traits into positive attributes that can actually

24:24be advantageous. They're told their whole life they're bad and incurable. So I don't kind of

24:28blame them. I was almost going to go down that line myself. I was told, expelled from school,

24:33you're bad. Probation, precinct report, you're bad. The lawyers, you're bad. The prison, you're bad.

24:39You know, it's parents, you're bad. Everyone told me I was bad. And I thought I was bad. And bad

24:44people do

24:44bad things, you know, because that's their identity. That's the person they think that they are.

24:48A lot of psychopaths have done bad things and those are the ones you will hear of. And the thing

24:53is

24:53though, not many people want to admit to psychopathy because of the stigma that it has associated to

24:58it. So there'll be great ones out there that just don't want to tell you because they don't want to

25:03say, oh, hey, I've been faking half this stuff, but I'm still a good person. But they do great things

25:08in the world. And if we could compare the good ones and the bad ones, then we'd probably have

25:13a better understanding of the sort of spectrum that it exists on. It is only portrayed online

25:17in the most drastic form. Like I said, it's on a, it's on a spectrum. You've got psychopathy,

25:22which is at one end of the spectrum, which is, I don't care about anybody and I can kill them

25:26and

25:26get enjoyment out of it. And then the other end of the spectrum is someone that will, you know,

25:30cry when they hear a piece of music and they can't stop thinking about it for the next three days

25:34because it's still choking them up every time. So there's people that exist all the way on that

25:38spectrum, but we only, you know, sensationalize the most interesting part of it. But actually,

25:45this is a neurodivergent mental health condition. You know, I'm not a bad person. I care about people.

25:50I've got a condition. I live with it. I try my absolute best. But it absolutely shouldn't be

25:55demonized unless you do bad things with it. And that's only a very select few people that do.

25:59The population of psychopaths is 1% of the world. And then how many other people are sociopaths and

26:06narcissistic and have disorders? You'd be, you'd be surprised. They don't even know it maybe,

26:10or they're hiding it or suppressing it. They're some of our most successful leaders that we don't

26:14even know about. It's out there. It's just misunderstood and they're portrayed in a very

26:20negative light. I've got a bit of a thrill out of the violence when I was younger because it was,

26:24um, power. I felt powerful. Um, and I could see how that could have progressed potentially as I got

26:31older and maybe more aggressive and, you know, edged it closer and closer that maybe that could have,

26:37you know, turned into some crazy violence. I don't know, but I never have any thoughts of harming people

26:44for the sake of harming people. It's just stigmatized because it's, you hear of serial killers and you

26:48think of psychopaths. I'm a diagnosed psychopath. I do not get a thrill out of hurting or doing anything

26:53bad. I could, I could do it, but I wouldn't want to. Like it's stupid. It doesn't make sense why

27:00I'd

27:00want to do it, but that's because I've evolved myself to the point where I understand that.

27:09There is definitely an element of masking and putting on personas. I think we all do it. Like

27:15you step into a meeting and you take the, the confident woman with you if that's, if that's who you

27:21need to be, you know, you, you go on a date, you take the joyful flirtatious person with you. It's

27:30you learn that behavior. That's a skill. And to say, oh no, I don't do it. Everything I'm doing is

27:34completely genuine. No. Sometimes I do put on a smile and there's no smile on it. You know,

27:37sometimes I do like have a connect, like create a connection when I first meet somebody because

27:42it makes them feel more comfortable, but I don't, I don't care to meet them more. Potentially,

27:47I may be more skilled in certain areas of doing it, or it's, it's more conscious than it is

27:53subconscious where people are doing it. But yeah, different scenarios, different search circles,

27:58different people, different groups, different outcomes that I'm looking for. I will behave

28:03differently. I don't think I'm hiding this monster within. Uh, there's definitely times where I'm,

28:09you know, you know, putting on a bit of a front or there is something because in business,

28:14sometimes there is something you want from other people, you know, sometimes you are in a meeting

28:18and then you couldn't care less about that person's holiday or, you know, how nice their tie is.

28:21Not that I make comments on things like that, but the point I'm making is sometimes I couldn't care

28:25less and I don't like that person, but I might pretend that I do. Um, but yeah, there's no, uh,

28:31monster waiting to pop out around the corner. And as soon as you close the door, there's this

28:34different version of me. There is a different version of me, but it's not a monster. It's a quieter,

28:38it's a more introverted. It's a more dull. It's a more baseline version of me.

28:50I would not be the success I am without being a psychopath because it's been my massive advantage.

28:57I have a ability to strategically think because I have to overcompensate for the lack of feeling.

29:03So I can create a plan and I can see every step that needs to take place. Sometimes people have

29:08like

29:08a goal and they don't, they, they can't visualize how to get there. And that's just some way some

29:13people are. I seem to be very methodical and strategic in my way of kind of taking very simple

29:18steps one after another with no emotional burden pulling me back. We created the business called

29:22The Coaching Masters and, um, the business grew exponentially. It was right before the pandemic.

29:28It was all online. We knew that it had to be online from the start. The main thing we do

29:32is we help people become life coaches. Those 15,000 students, they're people that have wanted to become

29:38a coach and they're now qualified as life coaches. That's the main part of our business now.

29:41You see a psychopath as manipulative and I am very manipulative, but to help someone, I will persuade

29:48you to think better about yourself and live your life beyond your wildest dreams. It's just categorized

29:53as bad if you're manipulating somebody to do something that's harmful for them or beneficial for you.

29:57So manipulation can become persuasion. My, uh, impulsivity can be seen as being able to

30:06take risks. My lack of fear enables me to not be burdened by it. Um, my emotional bluntness allows

30:15me to make logical decisions rather than being influenced by emotion and fear and ridicule or

30:20embarrassment or those things that might happen to people. It's like every single, uh, negative

30:24trait has a positive and it's about trying to integrate them and allow them and see rather

30:30than trying to dismiss it. Cause some people might think, oh, I'm quite manipulative sometimes.

30:33I'm going to bury that. But actually why not try and accept that as part of something that you do,

30:38but just make sure that you're doing it constructively. So I'm able to integrate those

30:44negative aspects of myself, but use them for good. How do you feel about people who might think,

30:49okay, this is not real then?

30:50Mm. Loads of people do. I've been called a cult leader and there's an element of truth behind it,

30:55right? Because when people say you're exploiting people for personal gain, I think, well, yeah,

31:02a business is for personal gain. Of course, like I'm not just doing this because I want to help everyone.

31:08I want to build a business. I want to make money. It's no different than any other leader of an

31:12organization. I'd be lying if I said I got everyone results because it's impossible to give everyone

31:16results. They need to want it. I can coach, I can help, and I can make impact. But if you

31:20want

31:20a real transformation, it's self-led. So the ones that don't win, I couldn't care less.

31:26And I tell you why, not my fault. I will give you all the resources, all the skills, all the

31:32support,

31:33and I go over and beyond. Like I will give you everything, but if you don't make it work,

31:36it's down to you. Do you think that universities are upset because they have a 3% success rate of

31:42people that actually get jobs in their field of... They're educators. They can provide the skills

31:46and resources, but it's down to the person. I know it works. I've helped thousands of people.

31:51If I was in like a one-off scenario where it only works for me and everyone else it didn't

31:56work for,

31:56because I'm teaching them how to be psychopaths, of course, that wouldn't be fair, but I'm not.

31:59I've educated myself. I know what it works and I've proven it. It can multiple across thousands of

32:05people from different countries and different walks of life and different demographics. So I know it works.

32:09So if it doesn't work for you, that's down to you. And you probably find that the person that doesn't

32:14work for, probably nothing's working for them. A lot of people have over-complicated the world.

32:19They worry about things that are never going to happen. And I just look at these people and I just

32:23think your life is just running out. Like your life is literally running out and all you're doing

32:27is stretching yourself out and worrying and scared about things that don't exist. And I think, wow,

32:31that's not what I'm supposed to be. So there's obviously that part that I'm quite grateful,

32:36but I don't have to be wrapped up in. There's a lot of ambitious people that want to achieve

32:40a lot with their life and they know the things to do, but they don't do them because they're held

32:43back by that fear, the fear of their own insecurities and doubts and what might happen

32:48or won't happen. And actually, if you can look at it quite logically, a lot of people ask me how

32:52I'm

32:52successful and I just say, well, I figure out what I want to do. And then I make like a

32:55plan of one,

32:56two, three, and then I take steps one, two, and three. I'm not some crazy genius of these mad plans.

33:02I just actually do all the things I want to do because most people could do the exact same things,

33:06but they're just held back by those emotional constraints.

33:09There's a lot of successful people that will detach themselves from their emotions purposefully,

33:13you know, because it's helpful in situations. You know, politicians, CEOs, surgeons,

33:18these people may actually be on this, you know, psychopathy spectrum, but even if they weren't,

33:22they would have to make a conscious choice to distance themselves. Because if they were in the

33:26middle of surgery and they'd be like, oh my God, but what about if I clip that? Or what about

33:28what

33:28their parents or their family or their daughter are going to, I can't operate. I'm going to have

33:32to let them just bleed out because, you know, what about if something goes wrong? Dead, you know,

33:36they're dead. Or what about if you go to war? It's like, can I kill 100,000 people with that

33:40decision

33:41or 800,000 people with that decision? I can't kill those 100,000 people. So now they're all dead.

33:47You have to go 100,000 people just makes more sense. You know what I mean? So some people have

33:52the

33:52ability to either disconnect or it's just disconnected anyway, but it of course can be helpful.

33:58From a corporate sort of point of view, I wouldn't say I'm the best leader in business. I definitely

34:06see it having flaws. I find it very difficult to communicate to people. I assume they think how

34:16I think a lot of the time. And I get very frustrated when they don't understand or don't do things

34:21the

34:21right way because I don't know how they wouldn't be able to do it. Because to me, it feels very

34:28simple and not in an arrogant way, but I see it clearly sometimes and they don't. And I find it

34:32frustrating to communicate that sometimes to staff. And I don't have much of a tolerance to support

34:39them emotionally from that real strong leadership perspective. I know that's the right thing to do.

34:43Nurture staff, employees, build them up. I really don't have the tolerance or the time or the patience

34:49in that. So I become more of a sort of more of a dictator sort of ship kind of leadership

34:55style.

34:56And it works to a certain extent, but I don't think it's the best way of doing it, to be

35:00honest.

35:01I think when you're changing things so fast and you're working so quickly and you just want to build

35:04something and you've got a vision for it, sometimes you don't have the space to nurture people and give

35:08them creative freedom to do their own thing because I've got my vision and I don't know what I want

35:11to

35:11do. So I end up just barking orders and telling people what to do. And sometimes it works, sometimes

35:15it doesn't. But if we move fast enough, we still end up building quite well. I'm very happy that my

35:19life has made this massive change. Happy is an interesting one for me because I don't feel a

35:25strong happiness. I have a flatness, but I do have a sense of being... content's also quite difficult,

35:31I would say. I'm on a climb. I know I'm on a climb. I have this illusion that the higher

35:37I climb,

35:38the more complete and fulfilled I'm going to feel. I know because I'm educated enough to know that

35:42that's not going to happen. But I allow myself to carry that climb because it gives me the satisfaction

35:47of knowing that I'm working towards something. I know eventually I might hit a peak. Call me a

35:52psychopath. Call me a manipulator. Call me a grandiose. I call that confidence. Call me, you know,

35:57whatever you might, you know, whatever trait you think. I'm okay with myself and who I am,

36:01and I'm okay with the impact I'm having and I'm not making any negative impact on anybody else.

36:10The bizarre thing is when I was told you end up in prison, a part of me actually liked the

36:17idea

36:17of it because I always knew that I was going to do something significant with my life. When I went

36:21to prison the first time as a young offender in the young offenders institution, it was chaotic,

36:25but I kind of liked the excitement of it. You know, it was fun in a way. It was like

36:30a different

36:30adventure because it's new, it's a different environment, meet new people. It's just like being

36:34an action movie in a way. So it's part of it, it's fun. And everyone was asking me kind of

36:39what

36:39you're in for, what you're in for. And I always had to respond with these very like menial crimes

36:44at the time. And I remember thinking like, I wish that I could say something a bit more impressive.

36:48And that's like how you rank, the more longer your crime and the more bad it is, like the higher

36:53you

36:53rank really. So I remember thinking, I could actually do with a better charge next time.

36:59So if anything, I was kind of waiting to go back. There was a big gap between the first and

37:04the

37:04second time I went to prison, 18 and 19. It wasn't until I was 24 in the end that I

37:09was, I went back.

37:11I wasn't in the young offenders anymore. I was in the adult prison and a bit more mature. It still

37:15had the same effect because I could say what you went for still happens. And I was able to say

37:19groovy is probably harm. It's just enough to say, okay, it's just a standard offense. And also,

37:24you know, he can, he can fight. So that was, I was remember thinking this is perfect.

37:29I didn't have any like opportunity to connect with people in prison because it's just very

37:34transactional. People are coming from different wings, different prisons in and out, getting

37:37released, coming in. So, you know, you, you, you form people that you get acquainted with and you,

37:42you know, you talk to, but it's just, you know, so surface level, you know, so I decided to do

37:47maths and

37:48English whilst I was in there. And the only reason I did that was because they pay you,

37:52you can only spend £15.50 a week maximum, even if you're like a multimillionaire,

37:57because everyone's got to be the same on your toiletries, your stamps, your food, your snacks,

38:02everything. But I didn't even have that. So I needed to get paid and they pay you £10 to work,

38:10like cleaning the wing or £11 for education. So the extra pound. So that's why I went to education,

38:16to be honest, for the extra pound a week. I was 24 at this point, but I was acting like

38:21a child.

38:21Like I would screw the paper up, throw it around, you know, I'm not doing this.

38:24The prison tutor, Susie, lovely lady. And she just came and sat down next to me and she just said,

38:31what's the matter? And I actually don't think anyone had asked me that before. And I said,

38:36I don't understand. And that was really confusing because I'd like vocalizing these sort of

38:41subconscious thoughts that I'd never even really explored just from simple questioning.

38:46And I thought, how do I not even know I understand? Because I've not even looked up at the board.

38:50You know, I don't even know what you're teaching me, but how do I say I understand?

38:53And then kind of for a few different thoughts and questions and chats,

38:57I realized it's kind of more of a not wanting my dad to be right because he would call me

39:02a buffoon

39:02and stupid. So I thought I was. I was convinced I was stupid and, you know, incapable of learning.

39:08So I wouldn't even try. It was just this weird confusion thing that I wasn't even aware of.

39:12That's how crazy it is. It just happens. And for understanding it a little bit,

39:17I thought I can give it a try. And I started to learn maths and English and pick it up

39:20quickly.

39:21Of course, it was simple. And that was a big turning point where I was like, maybe I could.

39:25And I said to the prison jury, I said, do you think I could go to university?

39:28And I was, I was almost like expecting her to go. That'd be so stupid. Of course you can't,

39:32you know, because that's what I thought I left school was expelled at 15, but we could leave at 16

39:36back

39:36then. And she just looked at me and she just said, of course you can. And I believed her,

39:45actually. I thought, actually, you actually believe I can. So that gave me a goal. I said,

39:49right, I'm going to get out of here. I'm going to go to rehab and I'm going to go to

39:52university.

39:53Do you think that had she come 10 years earlier, it would have had the same impact on you?

39:59I mean, I would have liked to have Susie in my life sooner. I think that would have been

40:04definitely advantageous, but who knows? You know, they say you can take a horse to water,

40:07but you can't make it drink. Maybe that was the perfect time in my life where she needed to intervene

40:12and give me that clarity. And maybe I would have, because to be honest, I was dismissive of help.

40:16Like it would have probably been presented itself to me because I remember that when I had this

40:20breakthrough moment inside prison, where I realized that I wanted to change and I could change.

40:26Everything started becoming different. I see signs on the wall for therapy and AA meetings and stuff

40:30that I didn't see before. It's like my brain was actually like, in NLP, we talk about it,

40:34deleting, distorting, generalizing information through our filters. And it's a real thing.

40:40It's not my perspective of the world. My world was physically different from changing myself,

40:47changing my thoughts. And so the moment I decided I wanted to work on myself,

40:50I saw these opportunities and all these people that wanted to help. And when they did

40:54approach me to help me, I would, I would engage with it and I would realize that they were very

40:58helpful. But before I just brushing off, brushing off, ignoring it, ignoring it. So,

41:02you know, who knows? Susie could have come into my life earlier and it could have helped,

41:05or maybe it wouldn't have been the right time.

41:13I did this rehabilitation of addictive prisoners trust program inside prison,

41:16and that was a game changer. That was, it was so basic, but enough to give me a glimpse of

41:21what I

41:21could learn. When I was about to be released after nine months, I applied for this six months,

41:26fully intensive rehabilitation treatment center in Portsmouth, right on the South Coast,

41:30hours and hours away from where I'm from. And you can go to this full rehab and then you can

41:36like resettle there and get housing allowance and start a new life. I got released from prison.

41:40They picked me up, they escorted me right down to, to rehab. And that was worse than prison,

41:47because it was not the lovely retreat with yoga and mindfulness that I was sort of thinking in my

41:52head. It was, let's break you down. Let's get all the trauma out. Let's rebuild you. Let's tell you

41:57how bad this is. Let's get you out of denial. Let's make this uncomfortable. All I wanted to

42:02focus on is my recovery. So I knew that was the first thing I needed to fix. If I can

42:04fix the drug

42:05and alcohol, that's going to let me clear, like think clearly and give me the space to do everything

42:09else. So that was my number one priority. I can't tell you exactly how that breakthrough moment happens.

42:13I think sometimes they, they happen out of nowhere. It's just like a moment that just clicks. It

42:17absolutely did break me down and built me back up. I've gone from a violent criminal drug addict

42:22to being a volunteer in Portsmouth, going to AA meetings on a Friday night and having a milkshake

42:28after for the enjoyment after the meeting. And I'm thinking I need, I can see the progress now.

42:33When I looked in the mirror and saw myself, it was just a truthful reflection. It was the version

42:39of me that's not blaming and not looking for a way out and not being in denial and just an

42:44honest

42:45representation of we are where we are, Lewis, and you are the problem. You have to accept that,

42:51but you have to also accept that once you realize you're the problem, you're also the solution.

42:55We can make changes.

43:02So my dad, in the end, he was an alcoholic by the way, and he got pancreatic cancer from that.

43:09And I didn't know how to process that at the time, but he lost all of his weight and become

43:13very old

43:13very quickly. And he got a terminal diagnosis and I just distanced myself from it because I didn't

43:16know how to deal with it. So he went to the hospital and then the next day we went to

43:20visit him and the

43:21nurse hadn't let me know that he had died. So I walked straight in through the room and I just

43:25saw him

43:25dead. And that was just a very, very shocking moment. But then I just suppressed everything

43:31and I just went out and took drugs and took alcohol and just life went on and suppressed all that.

43:35Because there was emotion from those things, for sure. Like I didn't experience that one,

43:39because I definitely blocked that out, but...

43:40Did you go to the funeral?

43:41Yeah. Yeah.

43:43How was the funeral?

43:51I thought it was a funeral. I really... The worst... I know, that's too far. I was going to... No,

43:59I'll be honest. The first thought that came to my mind was boring, but that's... It's because they're

44:03all the same, aren't they? Because again, I don't really get the concept of things like that. My dad's

44:09my biggest trauma. I did say like the girlfriend hit me the hardest, but I think my dad's the biggest

44:13trauma. Like I know that his words affected me the most and there's definitely something unresolved

44:18there. I've done a lot of work on it. I think there's more to do. I wouldn't say it's chapter

44:22closed. I'd say it's put neatly, nicely in a box at the point where it's at a good position now.

44:28And it felt good to work on it, but I've got more to do. I've done all sorts of therapy,

44:32psychotherapy,

44:33the rehab, all sorts of things from a mindset perspective. And I became very strong in my

44:40mindset, I believe, but there was still a lot of healing and a lot of emotional work that I

44:44wanted to do. So I did try all sorts of different unconventional things like plant medicines in Bali,

44:53like all sorts of different things like somatic work and energy healing. And the one that really

44:58worked was breath work. I'm maturing. I'm learning new things. That's recalibrating the way you're

45:03in the perspectives I have. Or I'm remembering other things. Or I get interviewed and get

45:07asked different questions that trigger different things in my mind. For now, I'm content knowing

45:12that I'm developing. I'm being successful. I have the significance that I've been craving all my life

45:16in a positive way that is sustainable. Like if anyone ever told me that I'd be on TV, doctorate,

45:23millionaire, all these crazy things, I would think you are crazy. Because I just, I would have been

45:28happy with a stable job and not taking drugs. So of course I'm happy about it. Does it give me

45:32that

45:33real deep internal content, fulfillment, happiness that yeah, I've made it and I'm who I am? No.

45:39Can I get there? I hope so. Am I there yet? I'm not sure. But I'm on an ever evolving

45:43quest. Like

45:44I'm 10 years into this journey, but I'm 36 years old. I've got another, you know, hopefully another 50,

45:4960, 70, 100 years, who knows, to keep on evolving.

45:54Hi, I'm a producer and authorised account. If you enjoyed this video,

45:57then please subscribe and comment with more topics that you'd like us to cover in this series.

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