- 7 minutes ago
Bradley Horowitz, through his venture firm, Wisdom Ventures, wrote early checks to OpenAI in 2023 and to Anthropic in 2024. He's also backed Cerebras, Slack, ScaleAI and many others. That track record has landed him - once again - on Business Insider's Seed 100, a list that recognizes top investors. He sat down with senior correspondent Ben Bergman to discuss what he looks for in founders, and what companies he's excited about now.
Category
😹
FunTranscript
00:00Bradley, thank you so much for joining us.
00:02And I want to start with talking about two of the companies that every investor is trying
00:07to get into these days and talking about as they race to go public.
00:10That is, of course, OpenAI and Anthropic.
00:13You are one of the few people, I think one of only two really, through your firm, Wisdom
00:18Ventures, that invested early in both of them.
00:21So just talk about how you found those two iconic companies early on.
00:26Well, I think, first of all, let me thank you.
00:29It's a wonderful honor to be with you today, and I really greatly appreciate it.
00:36We had known about Sam Altman and OpenAI really since the beginning.
00:40I think many of us in the industry that have been working on AI have been tracking the progress
00:45that they had made.
00:46The firm didn't exist when they were founded.
00:49I think had it existed, we'd have been in even earlier.
00:52But we had a longstanding relationship with Sam, and that includes not only myself.
00:57I knew him from the early days of Y Combinator when he was CEO of Looped.
01:02I think they were in the second Y Combinator cohort.
01:05My partner, Soren, had an independent relationship with Sam, and my partner, Jack, had an independent
01:10relationship with Sam.
01:11And as we thought about investing for impact, not just financial impact, but societal impact,
01:18we realized that AI was going to have a bigger impact than almost anything else across the
01:23board from everything from the economy and huge fractions of GDP.
01:30It was going to be a disruptive force in the world.
01:32And that getting involved would not only be lucrative financially, but also we aspire to
01:38have an influence on the future direction of these companies.
01:42And so what really entailed investing was approaching Sam and having a conversation about the values and
01:50ethics of the firm, what he was up to and wanted to do.
01:53And one thing led to another, and we were privileged to get in, not early, but early enough that we've
02:01seen huge
02:01appreciation in that position.
02:03We were part of the, I believe, the $29 billion round.
02:08And of course, by many measures, OpenAI is approaching a trillion-dollar valuation today.
02:15What was interesting is we then approached Anthropic.
02:17And as well understood, Anthropic is sort of founded on a values-based approach toward making sure that AI has
02:28good
02:28outcomes for society.
02:30And what's really unusual is investing in both OpenAI and Anthropic.
02:36So we weren't sure if that would work for them.
02:39We were sure it would work for us because our goal is not to pick a single winner.
02:45The ethics of the firm really want humanity itself to be the winner.
02:49So we felt we could participate fully in both companies and really steer both of them towards better outcomes.
02:57And we were delighted that Anthropic accepted our investment.
03:02In that one, we got in on the $18 billion round.
03:07And as you know, Anthropic today is also approaching a trillion dollars market cap.
03:12So just really feel privileged and lucky to have been tracking those companies and to have had the audacity to
03:21ask both of them if we might be present on the cap table.
03:25And we're delighted to watch their progress over the years since we've invested.
03:29Yeah, because you alluded to this, but traditionally there's been a prohibition in Silicon Valley against investing in competing companies
03:36early.
03:37Did you have to go ask, you know, SAM or OpenAI for permission to also invest in Anthropic?
03:45Yes.
03:45You know, they prohibited that for a while.
03:47Yeah, we did.
03:48We did talk to both of them.
03:50And we wanted to ensure that it was okay and also that we were clear on our intentions.
03:58And obviously, we are not privy to the deep, dark secrets of either company.
04:04And we're certainly not a vector for any information to flow between them.
04:08And once the companies understood our intentions, I think it was an easy yes from both of them.
04:13Well, fast forward to today, and you've just announced a third fund, $77 million.
04:20Congratulations on that.
04:22And it's really interesting, I think, what you're doing with this fund.
04:26Because after spending, you know, 15 years at Google developing the products that are so ubiquitous in our lives, like
04:32Google Photos, Google News, and of course, investing in these big AI companies,
04:37you are now focusing on tech-centered wellness to get people off their screens.
04:43So tell us about that.
04:44Yeah, I'm really excited about Wisdom Ventures.
04:47And you said it.
04:49There really is a loneliness epidemic right now.
04:52And I think some of that is accountable to tech.
04:55We have sort of a scrolling, doom-scrolling epidemic right now.
04:59And one of the things we did was bring on the former Surgeon General, Dr. Vivek Murthy.
05:05And he was Surgeon General under Obama and Biden.
05:08And he wrote a book on the loneliness epidemic and the impact it's having on humanity.
05:13And it turns out that social isolation leads to extremely bad health outcomes.
05:19It's sort of equivalent to smoking two packs of cigarettes a day.
05:22And so it's not just a mental health crisis.
05:24It really is a physical health crisis as well.
05:26So as we think about tech-enabled wellness, one of the categories we're excited about is getting people away from
05:33screens and into their community in real life.
05:37And so we've done this sort of in a couple ways.
05:39Our portfolio includes companies like the Light Phone, which is a reduced feature set phone.
05:44So you can actually call the babysitter and navigate to the restaurant, but you don't sit there doom-scrolling.
05:51You're actually present with your companion.
05:54Another one is a screen-saving app called Opal, which sort of sets up self-imposed barriers to certain apps
06:03at certain times so that you can actually keep honest to the focus that you want to have.
06:08And then other applications are things like REC.
06:12REC is, as in Parks and REC, R-E-C.
06:15REC is a startup that is helping people get off of screens and out into their communities to play recreational
06:21sports.
06:22They sell this to the Parks and REC departments, which are either using no software at all or antiquated software.
06:29And these are ex-Uber executives that basically said, why can't I order a pickleball game the same way I
06:35order an Uber?
06:36I want to play at 3 o'clock with a terrible C-minus player, like myself, within 3 kilometers of
06:42my home.
06:43And then it will find the player, match you up, and then key to this is reserve the court.
06:49It's actually the municipality that purchased their software.
06:52And that one is off to the races and thriving.
06:56They're just about to embark on a fundraise, and we're really excited about that.
07:01But it's an example of something we never imagined we'd be investing in sports tech.
07:05But when we met the founders, who were incredibly compelling, and really thought about the application, it gets people off
07:13screens, exercising in their communities.
07:17And it was sort of check, check, check, check.
07:20And so we're thrilled to be part of that and other applications like that.
07:24But when we say tech-enabled wellness, it's a pretty broad aperture.
07:28You know, it's not just around loneliness or social isolation or mental health.
07:32We want to fund tech that's good for people, and we think that's a very broad category.
07:37And it's a little bit of we know it when we see it.
07:41But our LPs are obviously comfortable trusting us with that judgment, and we're excited about the category.
07:50And, you know, I always ask VCs what they look for in founders, and usually it's always the same things,
07:57you know, grit, resilience.
07:59But I thought your answer when we spoke earlier was so interesting because you said you look for people who've
08:04been in kitchens, which I thought was a metaphor, but it's actually literal.
08:08So just explain that and what you look for in founders.
08:12It is true.
08:13And, you know, by the time a candidate reached me at Google, I knew they were valedictorian and perfect SATs
08:21and gold medal in the Olympics or some, you know, set of extraordinary achievements.
08:25And what I wanted to test, having been through all the normal things and pedigrees, is sort of what is
08:33this person like under stress?
08:35And what is it going to be like to do a complicated journey into the unknown with this person as
08:42my teammate and companion?
08:43And so a lot of what I looked for were examples in their background that showed they could deal with
08:50not only complexity in terms of algorithms and, you know, managing projects, but really sort of being in the trenches
08:59in stressful situations and thriving there.
09:02And so I do think kitchens are one great example.
09:05It wasn't, you know, mandatory.
09:06It's not like everybody who worked at Google under me was a sort of former sous chef or something.
09:14But I think kitchens are great examples because you have angry, hungry customers.
09:19You have knives and fire.
09:21You have the time constraints of getting the food out in a timely fashion.
09:27So all of the dynamics of sort of high-intensity startup life are sort of manifest in a kitchen on
09:34a daily basis.
09:34So there can be other sort of examples, but I was always probing and digging for something beyond the pedigree
09:41that helped me understand who this person was and how they were going to react when it all fell apart.
09:49You also said you apply something called the flat tire test.
09:53Explain to our viewers what that is.
09:55Yeah, this is fun.
09:57And it's something we all know.
09:59There are certain friends where if you embark on a journey, you're on a road trip, and in the second
10:05hour you get a flat tire, some people are really a drag and like, I can't believe our bad luck
10:11and this is terrible.
10:12And then there are other people for whom, oh, my God, the adventure begins and we're going to tell our
10:19grandkids about this.
10:20And, you know, they're sort of into the spirit of let's make lemonade from the lemons.
10:26Let's turn this into an epic adventure.
10:30And you want to be with those people because inevitably on this journey, and I think never more than this
10:36moment, we just don't have much horizon visible to us.
10:41You know, we don't know what the future is going to look like.
10:43And so I want to be with people that when it all falls apart or goes a different direction than
10:49we anticipated, their attitude is to roll up their sleeves and let's get to work as opposed to being, you
10:56know, freaked out or bummed out or deer in the headlights.
11:01Well, and lastly, Bradley, I just want to ask about you.
11:05You just celebrated a birthday.
11:07You know, you had such a successful career at Google.
11:10You've done these amazing investments.
11:12You could obviously afford to retire and spend time in that lovely home and elsewhere.
11:19But you, you know, are going more than ever.
11:22You're very focused on wisdom with this third fund and investing institutionally now.
11:27And I'm just curious, you know, what keeps you going?
11:30Why you still love the thrill of venture?
11:34What keeps me going, first of all, I've made every mistake in the book.
11:38I've been an academic, an entrepreneur myself.
11:40I've acquired companies.
11:42I've helped companies get acquired.
11:44Angel investor, now institutional investor.
11:47I've seen a lot in my day and it would sort of be criminal to just sort of walk off
11:54with the battle scars and the harder knowledge that I've acquired.
11:57So I feel some amount of duty to sort of help people that are smarter and more capable than I
12:04am not make the same mistakes I've already made on their behalf.
12:07So a big part of this is just a sense of duty.
12:11And part of it is the asymmetry, something that's super easy for me can make a big difference for them.
12:17And that's sort of the privileged position where I find myself today is I feel like I've got all this
12:23hard earned knowledge and it would be sort of inconscionable to just walk off with it.
12:28I can open the door for other super capable people.
12:31The other answer to that really is around the mission of Wisdom Ventures and my partners.
12:37I work with an extremely talented group of people that are all mission oriented.
12:43None of them are doing this for profit.
12:47We are all doing it because we care deeply about the mission and are techno realists, but have an optimism
12:54that there's a lot more that can be done to help people thrive and flourish with technology.
13:00And we're incredibly confident of that and seeing that manifest in our portfolio.
13:04So what gets me excited is spending time with these founders.
13:08These founders are amazing and it's an absolute privilege to work with them, to give them a little bit of
13:14fuel and a little bit of wisdom along the way and then watch them run.
13:19And when it works, it's just it's absolutely thrilling.
Comments