00:00I don't know if I would say people are going to lose interest, but I think mistrust is at an
00:07all-time high.
00:08Well, and Heather, the AD at Georgia, Josh Brooks, he forbid his teams from playing Texas Tech.
00:14How many other schools, I mean, some are coming forward already, how many other schools do you think are going
00:18to have this stance?
00:20A lot. I mean, the Big Ten is expected to discuss it here in the next couple of days.
00:28And in terms of a league-wide mandate to not schedule them in any sports in the regular season, according
00:36to my colleague Pete Thamel, that is significant.
00:40I mean, I think the one thing that came out of this that's positive, and I tweeted this yesterday, was
00:47the overwhelming consensus throughout college athletics from coast to coast that this is wrong.
00:53And maybe it spurs Congress to act quickly, because if anything's going to change, that's what has to happen, and
01:03it has to happen quickly.
01:05I was in D.C.
01:06I've been to the summertime. It's the off-season. I've been to the White House. I've been to the United
01:11States Senate.
01:12You know, like, what's spring football? I'm in D.C. That's what I'm doing.
01:16I mean, like, this is crazy.
01:20If you're there this weekend or next weekend and catch a UFC fight, the thing for me is, would anyone
01:26boycott or, you know, just not show up for their game this year against Texas Tech?
01:31Because, you know, there was some supposed—you never know what you're reading anymore online, if it's real or not, but
01:37reading some Big 12 schools were anti-playing them as well.
01:40And would any of those teams just say, you know what, we're not going to do it, or would that
01:44then breach TV contracts, and then you have a whole other bunch of issues that arise?
01:52Right. That's where you do need general counsel in the room to answer that question.
01:56And I don't know the answer to that.
01:59I think the threats are real because emotions are so high, but actually following through with it is certainly another
02:06question.
02:07I mean, one of my colleagues texted me yesterday.
02:09He said, you know what I would read?
02:11I would read a piece answering the question how the College Football Playoff Selection Committee would view a team that
02:17has all wins out of forfeits in their league.
02:21And I was like, that's a great question.
02:24I don't know what's going to happen.
02:25So here's the other thing, too, guys, is the NCAA is appealing this, right?
02:30I mean, it was like 4.30 yesterday that the NCAA filed its appeal.
02:37So while I think it's absolutely right for a lot of people to be upset about this in college athletics,
02:45I also think we need to take a deep breath this morning and see what the outcome of all of
02:51it is and how it shakes out.
02:53But in a way, it's like a great red flag for everybody to wake up and do something.
02:59Hanging out with senior writer for USPN, Heather Denich.
03:03Heather, one of the reactions we've had this morning, and I'm curious to get your take, and maybe you've had
03:08conversations with colleagues, maybe you haven't.
03:10I would really love to know how much attention the NFL, the NBA, Major League Baseball, because what we think
03:18is a college football problem right now is really not.
03:21This becomes a sports problem, this becomes a sports book problem, and this becomes a judicial issue.
03:28And I'm curious if you've had any conversations with anybody that are looking at NFL, NBA, professional sports leagues and
03:33saying,
03:33we better look pretty closely on what's going on here.
03:38Not necessarily at those levels, but you are right.
03:42But the difference is those freaks in professional sports hold their athletes accountable for things like this.
03:49I mean, there are rules, and they enforce them.
03:54The NCAA's hands are tied here, which is the whole part of the problem for the NCAA in general, as
04:01we talk about eligibility transfer, I mean, gambling, all of it.
04:07And this is, is gambling and sports betting an issue at every level?
04:13Yeah, it's an issue in high school.
04:15I mean, my brother-in-law teaches high school.
04:17I can tell you there are kids in his class who are betting on how many clouds are in the
04:22sky today, you know?
04:23So that's where we are as a society.
04:27Like, it's real at every level, everywhere.
04:31But the NCAA can't do anything about it with this lawsuit.
04:37We'll see what the appeal does, though.
04:38I can keep going back to that.
04:39Heather, how can anyone have rules?
04:41How can anyone have rules if the, if when you get caught, you, you know, and I thought, I think
04:47Nicole Auerbach wrote about this, but the mental health side of it and say, well, there's no accountability.
04:52And then some random judge in a, in a county near you that maybe sides with you or likes what,
04:59who you play for says, you know what?
05:01They're right.
05:02The men, this, this is, this is bad for their mental health and they can do whatever they want.
05:05I mean, how do you have rules?
05:06How do you, how does anyone have rules with this kind of, uh, world?
05:10Well, that's why the commissioners have spent so much time and money, millions, millions, millions of dollars, so many hours
05:20trying to lobby Congress for federal legislation.
05:24That's why, because at some point you have to have the government step in and create those rules because the
05:34NCAA isn't able to enforce its own.
05:37It needs antitrust protection.
05:38I mean, that's, but I mean, guys, look, this, this goes back to forever land with the NCAA putting itself
05:47in this position.
05:49The lack of leadership for decades in college athletics is why it is where it is right now.
05:59I mean, let's not cry woe is me for the NCAA here, which is made up of all of the
06:04schools, right?
06:06So it put itself in this position.
06:08I'm not saying that what happened is right by any stretch of the imagination or excusable, but they're here for
06:15a reason.
06:15So what has to happen now is leadership at the highest levels.
06:19And I'm looking at you, Big Ten and SEC, you formed this joint advisory commission, you know, a couple of
06:26years ago to try and assert some leadership in here.
06:30Can't make a decision on the playoffs.
06:32Can't make a decision, you know, and, and Congress can't save everybody from everything.
06:36So at some point the parents in the room have to speak up, you know, so it's just, that's kind
06:43of where it's at.
06:44The whole thing's a mess and it's an uncomfortable spot.
06:47But like, I believe deep down inside that all of these people are trying to do what's best for college
06:53athletics.
06:54I do believe that.
06:55Is money at stake?
06:57Yeah, absolutely.
06:58Everybody wants more money.
06:59Everybody wants more power, blah, blah, blah.
07:00But when you talk about the Greg Sankey's and the Tony Petitie's of the world, and even the politicians involved
07:06on both sides of the aisle, they want to fix this.
07:10I truly believe that.
07:11And that's what I'm clinging to.
07:12We are joined by senior college football writer for ESPN, Heather Dinnich, on the morning shift.
07:18And we've been talking about, you know, the big reactions that these schools are having to Texas Tech.
07:24They're saying they won't play them.
07:25Everyone's kind of talking big right now, as you mentioned.
07:27We've still got to wait to see how it shakes out.
07:29Given how united everyone is about the decision that came down yesterday, where do you think it could shake out,
07:36too?
07:36What do you think the actual outcome could look like?
07:41That's a good question, too.
07:42I mean, the NCAA could win the appeal.
07:45Swirsby could be ineligible.
07:48Here's a wild idea.
07:49What if Texas Tech said, man, the backlash to this is really big.
07:54We're just not going to play them.
07:56What if the NCAA says, go ahead, you can play them, but you've got to forfeit those games?
08:01I asked the NCAA yesterday if that's a possibility, and I'm still waiting on that answer.
08:06So, you know, I think it could go a couple different directions.
08:09When I go back to the Congress and the federal legislation, if that's going to happen, it has to happen
08:17super fast.
08:18Because the senators go out of session.
08:20Congress is out of session in August.
08:22It's an election year.
08:24So if they don't mark up that bill in July with the Commerce Committee, the Commerce Committee would have to
08:30vote on it.
08:31But their vote would send a poll throughout the Senate of whether or not they should take it seriously.
08:36And if the Senate passes it, they need 60 votes, then maybe the House does it, then you get some
08:42movement.
08:43But I'm telling you guys, I know how this works in D.C. because I live here.
08:48And it's a long shot.
08:51But maybe this will fuel the fire a little bit.
08:54Real quick before we let you go, Heather, you brought up Texas Tech, possibly.
08:58You know, just crazy thoughts that, hey, what if they're like, hey, the backlash is too much.
09:02You brought up the NCAA.
09:03What's the Big 12's role in all this?
09:06Does the Big 12 have any power at all?
09:08If all the other member institutions say, hey, we're not going to stand for this, does that kind of force
09:12Texas Tech's hand?
09:15It could.
09:17I mean, Brett Yormark, the commissioner yesterday, issued a statement that they're going to talk about this with their membership.
09:26I don't know that the Big 12 could issue any separate punishment, if that's what you're asking.
09:34We've seen that happen.
09:35We've seen it happen with the Big 10 in Michigan.
09:42So, it's certainly possible.
09:44But in my head, I'm also like, if the NCAA can't do this, how's the Big 12 going to do
09:49it?
09:51Such a rough thing to wake up to and talk about today.
09:55Heather, we appreciate you hanging out with us always.
09:58And always appreciate your opinion on things like this.
10:01All right, guys.
10:01Thanks so much for having me on.
10:03There you go.
10:03Heather Denich.
10:04Thanks so much to Heather for joining us today.
10:06I am so curious about her idea if Texas Tech would just be like, look, we're just not going to
10:11play you because it's been too, too much.
10:15Yeah, that's exactly why I wanted to ask about the Big 12 because those are the ones that are really
10:21you have to schedule.
10:22Like the non-conference things and the Josh Brooks, like, okay, do away with that.
10:25The Big 12 games, that's where your TV contract is.
10:28That's where all the other stuff comes in.
10:30And I'm just curious how those other member institutions feel.
10:32So it's got to be –
10:33Well, that's what she told me is they got to have counsel because there's a breach of contract in there
10:39with the TV deal.
10:41And you could cost the whole league whatever, I don't know, billions of dollars, I guess, if that's where their
10:47TV deal is.
10:47I'm not sure what the Big 12 TV deal is.
10:49I know it's the third largest of the power four.
10:54There's going to be a lot of conversation around this topic leading up to college football.
11:01It's going to be uncomfortable at the same time the whole way through.
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