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After a massive defeat in assembly elections, the Trinamool Congress is facing a significant crisis in West Bengal.
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00:00Good evening, you're watching NewsTrack with me, Maria Shaquille.
00:03Bengal is witnessing Khela 2.0.
00:06Only this time, it's not Trenumul Congress versus the BJP,
00:11but TMC versus the TMC itself.
00:14MLA's skipping a key meeting on Sunday was just the tip of the iceberg.
00:18The threat of a split within the Trenumul Congress is for real.
00:23And Mahmouda Banerjee could lose the party's control and symbol.
00:28Why am I saying this?
00:30Because suspended TMC spokesperson, Riju Datta,
00:33who will join me shortly on the show,
00:34has said that around 50 MLAs,
00:38enough to cross the anti-defection threshold,
00:41have held a secret meeting
00:42and are also backing expelled TMC MLA,
00:46Vita Brata Banerjee, as their leader.
00:49So is another TMC faction emerging?
00:53If these MLAs break away from the party,
00:56Bengal could witness a Maharashtra model
00:59where Shiv Sena MLAs broke away and formed a new faction.
01:03And as Mahmouda Banerjee battles this crisis,
01:06the question now is,
01:07will Bengal now see an Asli versus Nakli TMC debate and fight soon?
01:14And can Didi calm this internal storm?
01:17Or is this perhaps the end of the road of the Trenumul Congress,
01:23which was led by Mahmouda Banerjee,
01:25which is being led by Mahmouda Banerjee?
01:28Before I bring in the guests,
01:29I'll be also joined by BJP chief Shamik Bhattacharya.
01:33Shortly, here's a report on what unfolded today.
01:43Sharpe dissent, threat of a split.
01:46Perhaps this is Didi's biggest challenge yet.
01:49Mahmouda Banerjee could be staring at a crisis
01:51that goes beyond an election defeat.
01:55Suspended TMC spokesperson Rijudatta has said
01:58that around 50 MLAs had held a secret meeting
02:01and were backing the expelled TMC MLA Rita Vrata Banerjee
02:05as their leader.
02:25The claims come at a time
02:26when the Trenumul Congress is battling
02:28what may be its biggest internal crisis
02:30since Mamata Banerjee founded the party in 1998.
02:34And that's not all.
02:37Unprecedented scenes were witnessed in South 24 Parganas
02:40where a TMC leader was seen returning money
02:43allegedly collected as cut money.
02:45The cut money was initially collected
02:47from the beneficiaries of the Pradhan Mantri Avas Yojana.
02:51But Mamata Banerjee is in denial.
02:54The TMC supremo who held a protest in Kolkata
02:57against the attacks on Abhishek Banerjee and Kalyan Banerjee
03:00has said that the TMC MLAs are not being allowed to leave home.
03:03They are being asked to form a new party.
03:29What was also surprising is that many TMC MLAs and MPs
03:33were not seen at Didi's Dharna on Tuesday.
03:36After Trenumul Congress's poll debacle in 2026 SM Day election,
03:40for the first time, Mamata Banerjee had hit the streets here in Y Channel.
03:45She had sit here on a protest Dharna
03:47where she continued to remain for three and a half years.
03:51And finally, she has set the narrative straight and clear
03:54that the game is not over yet.
03:58Meanwhile, the forged signature rao continues to explode.
04:01After expelling two MLAs,
04:03a TMC delegation has submitted a fresh letter
04:06seeking appointment of their official nominee,
04:08Sovandev Chattapadai,
04:09as the leader of the opposition.
04:40I have done a lot of the opposition to the rest of the opposition.
04:41As the crisis deepens, one trend is becoming increasingly clear.
04:46Most disgruntled leaders are not targeting Mamata Banerjee.
04:50Their anger appears to be directed elsewhere at a bhaipo or nephew and political heir Abhishek Banerjee.
04:57Many within the party blame him for sidelining the old guard and centralizing power within the organization.
05:05Others accuse him of relying too heavily on IPAC, a strategy that they believe contributed to the TMC's electoral collapse.
05:12With the party out of power, leaders who once stayed silent are no longer holding back.
05:18The battle lines within the TMC are becoming clearer.
05:22Old guard versus new guard. Mamata loyalists versus Abhishek loyalists.
05:28The TMC insists this is merely a difficult phase.
05:32But the BJP says, the party is collapsing from within.
05:54But the signs of unrest are becoming harder to ignore.
05:58Secret meetings, public dissent, leaders under attack, MLAs under suspension, and rival power centers emerging inside the party.
06:08The battle for Bengal may be over.
06:11The battle for Trinamul Congress may have just begun.
06:14With Indrajit Kundu and Tapas Singh Gupta in Kolkata, Bureau Report, India Today.
06:22And I am being joined by Shamik Bhattacharya, who is the Bengal BJP chief.
06:27And it is under his leadership that the BJP achieved a historic victory just a month ago.
06:34Shamik ji, my first question is, what Mamata Banerji has said,
06:38is that TMC is not right without the TMC, because TMC is a work worker, it is a party, it
06:45is not a leader-based party.
06:47You can see how you see this statement.
06:49That one side is being involved in the party, it is basically saying that it is not a issue, and
06:59it is attacking on the attack.
07:00I am not ready to hear Trinomul Congress anymore so we will be talking about the party
07:26the political party is not going to be a political party.
07:33Malik Manta Ji is himself, and the people who have the ownership of the party,
07:44they are not going to be a political party or not.
08:09We will talk about the definition of TMC, whether it's a party or not in just a bit, but before
08:15that I want to understand from you what will happen to the rebels of the TMC.
09:11It's a clear mandate against the TMC.
09:15It's a clear mandate against Trudomul misdeed and misrule.
09:17Trudomul Congress about corruption.
09:20This was synonymous.
09:22You will not find any such mantra, which Trudomul Congress has no problem.
09:32Trudomul Congress is a thoroughly corrupt organization.
09:35Trudomul Congress in 2011, when it came, there was a restoration of democracy.
09:46The people know that in any situation, like London, Goa, Switzerland,
09:5640,000, factory, open the door.
10:01It was all a bad thing.
10:03But the issue was one of the CPI-E-M.
10:06It was the same.
10:09So, Trudomul Congress, the political ideological standpoint,
10:13that was the same time, which Trudomul Congress
10:17took the CPI-E-M.
10:20They have taken out of the CPI-E-M.
10:21So, in the early 2000-2017,
10:25they were depotated from the CPI-E-M,
10:26on the left front of the CPI-E-M.
10:29They had an autopsy for the 54th century.
10:31And in that case,
10:33the rule of lasagna and the federal structure,
10:37the rule of the banal and the country and the politics of the activist act,
10:45the political administration and the political government have been taken.
10:55foreign
10:56foreign
10:56foreign
10:56foreign
11:04foreign
11:05foreign
11:07that if TMC has two MLA's expel, or MLA's will come from their own purpose,
11:15then they will not get the place.
11:17Mamata Banerjee, today, she held protests,
11:24she held protests in the day that the BJP is an oppressive party,
11:32that they are Hitler's way of working,
11:34and that they have to go to Delhi.
11:37So how do you see it, that they will go to Delhi until the end of the day?
11:43People are laughing at the moment,
11:47go to Delhi, Antarctica, go to Mars,
11:50they will come from our country.
11:52The people who don't want to hear the truth of Tridomul,
11:54they don't want to hear the truth of Tridomul Congress.
11:59They don't want to hear the truth in the day.
12:02So now, in Kolkata, people don't understand the truth of the truth.
12:05So go to Delhi, go to Delhi.
12:07The Jantar Mantar is here, here is Gandhi.
12:11The Tridomul Congress is not able to hear the truth of Tridomul Congress.
12:29in terms of shift and now TMC's carder, BJP is in power.
13:00We had to do it.
13:01We had to do it.
13:03The police also took action.
13:07The extortion was the same.
13:08The extortion was the same.
13:10The extortion was the same.
13:12That was the same.
13:13The day was done.
13:14There was no extortion,
13:17no syndicate,
13:19no judiciary,
13:20no pressure.
13:22How many people have come from the country.
13:24They have been closed from the country.
13:25They have been closed from the country.
13:27The people of the country are happy.
13:30They have been closed from the country.
13:33They have been closed from the country.
13:34We are working on this.
13:36Nothing is happening.
13:37My last question is that
13:39TMC is being put on a roof.
13:42The people of the country are being charged.
13:46They are being attacked by the people of the country.
13:48They are being attacked by the people of the country.
13:48They are being scared.
13:50How do you see these countries of Bengal and BJP?
13:53How do you see these countries?
13:55How are they watching these countries?
13:56The law and order.
13:57There is a problem.
13:58The abuse of the BJP.
14:02What are you saying about it?
14:07What is the law and order?
14:08What do you say about it?
14:09What are you saying about it?
14:10What are you saying about it?
14:24we have been closed.
14:25In the Uttar Bengal,
14:26one of the people of the country
14:28were all over the world.
14:31The entire family was in the war.
14:37The people of the country were saying that
14:38it should be something that should happen.
14:40We have taken our hands,
14:42because of that,
14:44the mother of the house had eaten
14:46in front of the house.
14:47The mother of the house had killed.
14:50We were still doing our work.
15:02of 27 female workers in front of the camera they said we have been gang raped by
15:13the house of thousands of people in the other states were forced to go to the other state
15:24of the house, but it was like that it was 5,000,000,000 to 5,000,000,000 to
15:345,000,000,000
15:39foreign
15:43foreign
15:44foreign
15:45foreign
15:47foreign
15:48%uh
15:50I don't know
15:51I think
15:51I don't know
15:53I think
15:54I would
15:56okay
15:56I don't know
16:08it's not
16:09accepted in a civilized society
16:13।
16:15॥
16:16॥
16:19॥
16:20॥
16:20॥
16:21॥
16:21॥
16:23॥
16:29foreign
16:31foreign
16:34foreign
16:36foreign
16:36I don't think that the government was broken.
16:39We went to the high court for the country to the government.
16:42The Congress had no permission to give the government permission.
16:44Then the police, the administration, the government, the government, the parties,
16:50all were stolen.
16:52There was a football.
16:53People were saying that they were stolen, stolen.
16:56That was the way it was.
16:57The DJ culture that we had brought in Trinamul,
17:00we wanted to protect the people of Trinamul.
17:02I want to support you.
17:32Tough time ahead, I would say.
17:36First of all, good evening, everyone, and good evening to the panelists.
17:39Well, I've been listening to a lot of things from Mr. Swamik Bhattacharya.
17:43It is unfortunate, BJP never walks the talk.
17:47That's the only thing that the BJP has.
17:49BJP has machinery for election.
17:52That's fine.
17:53They've been talking about people like Rit Brotho, people like, you know, Sandeep and Saha.
18:01They've been expiring.
18:02But I want to bring to the notice to the country.
18:05Around 15th of May, 2026, when the speaker was elected, there was a time Shubindu Adhikari
18:14got along with Shubindu Adhikari, the leader of the opposition for TMC,
18:20and they together welcomed the speaker.
18:25So, was it not clear that it has been announced that the leader of the opposition is, so that
18:30there was a speech from the leader of the opposition?
18:34Is it being seen?
18:36And what is there for the BJP today?
18:39We have to understand.
18:40Why is BJP so desperate?
18:43Dr. Manoj Jaiswal, there seems to be some problem with your audio because, you know,
18:47it's not a very clear audio which is coming in.
18:49So, I'll ask the producer and the PCR director to fix that audio.
18:53In the meanwhile, let me bring in Riju Datta.
18:56Riju Datta, there's a lot of attention on what you are doing, what you are saying at the moment.
19:01You are a suspended TMC leader.
19:05Right now, the question is, what is really happening within the Trinamore Congress?
19:11And what is it that you know that perhaps the TMC spokesperson, Dr. Manoj Jaiswal, doesn't know at the moment?
19:20No, see, I'm not going to comment on the TMC spokesperson.
19:23I have done that job.
19:24It's not an easy job to do and he's trying to do his job.
19:27All the best to him.
19:29I am not doing anything.
19:31I just said something yesterday and it exploded today because I stand vindicated.
19:37Because that is the fact that when, and I've got some very pertinent questions if Trinamore can answer those questions.
19:44Yes, let's put him on the screen.
19:47Let's put Dr. Manoj Jaiswal after fixing his audio on screen now, please.
19:52So, let me know, Maria, when I can ask those questions.
19:54Yes, please, go ahead.
19:55Okay, so my first question.
19:58Trinamore Congress National General Secretary, Sri Abhishek Banerjee, was brutally attacked.
20:03There was an attack on his life in Sonarpur.
20:05There is no denying that.
20:07It's a deplorable incident.
20:08It should not happen in a civil society.
20:10Where was the Jadagpur MP, Shayani Ghosh?
20:13Was she accompanying Abhishek Banerjee?
20:15No.
20:15When Abhishek Banerjee was taken to Apollo and Bellevue Hospital for treatment, where was she then?
20:21Nowhere to be seen.
20:22These are people who were sent to the Lok Sabha on a Trinamore Congress ticket.
20:26My second question.
20:27Today, after so many days, the party supremo, Mamata Banerjee, has hit the streets.
20:33Cadres, lower level career karta…
20:35Riju, should I ask Manav to respond to that question?
20:38Why wasn't Jadagpur MP accompanying Abhishek Banerjee is the question.
20:44Manav Jaiswal?
20:49Okay, we have lost that connection with Manav Jaiswal.
20:52Please go ahead, Rijudatta.
20:53Yeah, my second question.
20:55Today, after such a long time, it is already too late.
21:00But nonetheless, the party supremo, Mamata Banerjee, she has hit the streets.
21:05She has been on the ground.
21:07Trinamore Congress, as of today, still now, we have to see what happens tomorrow, has 42 MPs and 80 elected
21:16legislators.
21:17But in Trinamore Congress supremos dharna, there were seven legislators and only four MPs.
21:23Where are the rest?
21:24What are they doing having chole bha tori in Khan market?
21:27Where are they?
21:28That is the question.
21:30That is the question I wanted to ask.
21:32When I got suspended from the party today, Sanju ji, I can see her on the screen.
21:37Over the years, over the last eight, nine years, we have been in brutal verbal battles when I represented Trinamore
21:44Congress and she represented BJP party.
21:46And she knows I have nothing but respect for her in my heart, apart from whatever verbal debates we had
21:51in front of the camera.
21:53So, I am asking, when I got suspended, my suspension letter is the pinned tweet.
21:58I have never done any anti-party activity.
22:00I only said BJP, thank you.
22:02Because when my peak party leaders switched off their phones, did not pick up my phones,
22:07and my house was raided by these Tatkal BJP ex-Trinamore Gundas.
22:12They gave death threats to my mother and my wife.
22:15It was the BJP, the senior leaders of BJP from Delhi and Bengal who protected my family and my livelihood.
22:21And I said, thank you.
22:22And I was suspended from the party.
22:25So, this is the situation.
22:26Now, what you are seeing, Maria, on the screen or what you are seeing unfolding,
22:31that a large chunk of MLAs, which is probably 50 or more, they want to defect.
22:36They want to call themselves the real Trinamore.
22:38They want Ruta Bhattu Bandhabarda as a leader of opposition.
22:41Later on, they want to say claim on the party symbol.
22:44This has not happened in one day.
22:46Okay, Dr. Manav Jaiswal, please respond to everything that has been said by your former colleague,
22:51Riju Datta, who appears visibly anguished.
22:55And his questions, many would say, are legitimate today.
23:00Where are your party MLAs?
23:01Where are your party MPs?
23:03Have all of them abandoned Abhishek Banerjee in particular?
23:08See, the first and foremost, what I have to tell you is, there have been a lot of statements
23:14going around Ashli TMC, Nakli TMC.
23:17TMC without Mahmata Banerjee does not exist.
23:20There is no TMC without Mahmata Banerjee.
23:24Why is it that neither Sanju Varma nor Riju Datta can hear what has been said now?
23:36Dr. Manav Jaiswal, please continue.
23:38And I will, you know, that has to be fixed by this.
23:40I need to, I need to, I need to, I need to...
23:42Yes, please, go ahead.
23:43Dr. Manav Jaiswal, I can hear you.
23:45Please, go ahead.
23:45First and foremost, today there was a dharna, right?
23:49And the dharna permission was asked like a couple of, a few days back.
23:54What prevented this government to allow this dharna to happen?
23:58There was no mic allowed.
23:59There was no stage allowed.
24:00There was no podium allowed.
24:01Why is the DGP so scary?
24:03Because TMC is finished.
24:05If Mahmata Banerjee is not dead.
24:07And people have completely discarded her.
24:09Why are you stopping people?
24:11There have been places.
24:12There have been a lot of people who wanted to join in today.
24:14There were people running again.
24:16Polishes have been used to, you know, intimidate people not to visit this dharna.
24:21There have been thousands and thousands of Karakandas who have been arrested.
24:25For no reason whatsoever.
24:27The propagation, the way they have been provoking or propagating things,
24:31is only from the founder of the DGP Karakarta.
24:34Abhishek Bharatiya took a lead.
24:36He knew that there would be an attack.
24:37There was a message to the policing.
24:39There was a matter of law and order.
24:40None of the police officers were there.
24:43You can come and tell, okay, the MLA's are not coming.
24:46You claim what you have to claim.
24:49Rituprata, you want to make him a leader?
24:51But still he would not get the TMC.
24:54Sandeepan Saha is already scared.
24:56The people like Pranika Tibriwal, they have been threatening him like left and right.
25:01So people who have done...
25:02No, no, no.
25:03What I'm failing to understand when you say that they are threatening,
25:07don't forget till a month ago it was your government.
25:12So you have a double engine, don't you have, Mariam?
25:15You know how the ED...
25:16You know there are almost the forces, the central forces still there in Bengal.
25:20You understand the way they have managed the election.
25:24BJP knows how to manage the election.
25:25No, no, manage the elections is what?
25:27Are you...
25:28No, no, no.
25:28One moment.
25:29Dr. Manav Jaiswal, I want to understand from you.
25:31Are you then saying that the people of Bengal really did not vote for the BJP
25:35and that it was a managed election?
25:38Of course it is.
25:39We are not claiming to be a managed.
25:40Okay, okay, okay.
25:41Please come in.
25:41Sanju Barma, you have an opening here.
25:43The Trinamol Congress refuses to accept that they have been rejected by the people of Bengal.
25:50Instead, they are saying that you manage this election.
25:54Mamata Banerjee and her team doesn't realize that how palpable anti-incumbency was there.
26:03Mariam, is that for me?
26:05Yes, please.
26:06Sanju Barma.
26:07Yes, so can I speak?
26:08Mariam, there's a very bad audio.
26:11Yes, ma'am.
26:11I can barely hear the thing.
26:13I'm telling that to the PCR team, telling that to the producer.
26:17I'm waiting for it to be fixed.
26:19Please go ahead.
26:19I think you need to correct to the phone line.
26:20Yes, please go ahead.
26:21I think you need to correct to the phone line.
26:22Sanju Barma.
26:24Sanju Barma.
26:25Sanju Barma.
26:25Mariam, the Zoom is not effective.
26:27Mariam, I need my time.
26:29Sanju Barma.
26:30You can't be hickered like this.
26:32Yes.
26:32Can I please speak?
26:34Because as it is, it's a bad audio, I need my time.
26:37Let's get one thing very clear, Mariam.
26:40Mamata Banerjee, Trinamol Congress,
26:42is facing an existential crisis.
26:46It's facing an extinction.
26:49Tell me one thing.
26:50On the 31st of May Sunday, she called for a meeting of TMC MLA.
26:54Out of age 0, 6, 0, 60 were missing.
26:57I want to ask, why has Kakoli Dastidar, a long-time TMC acolyte, decided to abandon all party positions?
27:06Rachna Banerjee, June Malia, Shatabdi Roy, these are very visible faces who were out at the drop of a hat
27:14to defend Mamata Banerjee and any wrongdoing of the TMC.
27:17Why have they gone, you know, mute?
27:20Where have they suddenly disappeared?
27:22Why have they abandoned the TMC establishment?
27:24And let me make one thing very clear.
27:26The BJP does not endorse vigilantism.
27:29The BJP does not endorse violence.
27:31But what happened with Abhishek Banerjee is the weaponization of ANDA.
27:37The weaponization of ANDA happened to deflect from the miserable existence of Trinamol Congress with Mamata Banerjee, clearly having lost
27:49her grip on her MLA.
27:50I want to read out some data for you.
27:53Shantan Hussain has resigned as the spokesperson of TMC.
27:57Arup Chakrabarty has resigned as the spokesperson of TMC.
28:02Manoj Tiwari, not the BJP's Manoj Tiwari, but TMC's Manoj Tiwari, has resigned.
28:08XMLA Raj Chakrabarty has resigned.
28:11Then Abhijit Majumdar, not the journalist Abhijit Majumdar, but the former ASAM president of Trinamol Congress has resigned from the
28:19TMC.
28:20Wait, there's more.
28:22I believe that Lallantop has recently come out with a statement, I don't know how true it is, that Yusuf
28:29Pathan, the so-called star TMC MP from Bharapur, is looking to resign.
28:34Now listen to some more things.
28:37Prasoon Banerjee, the former football star and the TMC MP from Haura, I believe has resigned.
28:44Jagdish Basunia, the TMC MP from Kutpehar.
28:48None of that is official resignation so far.
28:51And your party president of Bengal has said that they are not being welcomed either in your party.
28:58So where are they going?
28:59I'm coming to that.
29:00Yes.
29:01I'm coming to that.
29:02You know, I often hear our reliable sources have said this to us and have said that to us.
29:09So my reliable sources are telling me, Prasoon Banerjee is looking to resign from Haura.
29:16Partha Bhavik is looking to resign as a TMC MP from Kolkata.
29:20Jagdish Basunia, Jagdish Basunia is looking to resign as a TMC MP from Kooch Behar.
29:25And I want to just say one thing, Mahua.
29:27You know, one thing to Mahua Moitra, to your show.
29:32Today the entire Kabal is saying, oh, Abhishek Banerjee par BJP ne aatraman kia.
29:37Oh, madam Mahua Moitra, till four weeks back you were saying, you know, violence is very
29:43endemic to West Bengal.
29:45Violence is the culture of West Bengal.
29:48Violence is not really something that people in West Bengal discuss because it's something
29:54very natural.
29:55Why are you going to run a runa dhuna?
29:57Just because Abhishek Banerjee was egged and just because a poor anda was weaponized.
30:03I want to end by saying one thing, which your audience needs to listen to.
30:08Malda, seven judges were locked up under the incompetent nose of Mamata Banerjee.
30:14NIA was attacked in East Nedirinpur in 2024.
30:18Enforcement directorate was attacked in Birbhum in 2022.
30:22CBI was attacked in Hooghly in 2023.
30:25Sanjeev Anma, while we condemn that attack, I think we should also be condemning this attack
30:31which has happened against Abhishek Banerjee.
30:33And Kalyan Banerjee.
30:34I started by saying, Maria, Maria, Maria, I started by saying, DJP does not endorse any
30:41form of violence or vigilantism, but I will say this responsibly.
30:46There is a difference between a political attack and mob anger.
30:52This was mob pent-up feudal mob anger.
30:57Still, yes.
30:58Still, mob justice is not really something that should be…
31:03Yeah, but don't blame DJP for it.
31:05Don't blame DJP for it.
31:08It's your government now, law and order is in your hands.
31:13I want to answer this.
31:15You have a UP model.
31:16You have a UP model, Sanjeev.
31:18You have a UP model, Sanjeev.
31:20You have a Delhi model.
31:21You have a UP model.
31:22No, no, but Dr. Malab Jaiswal, I'm coming to you.
31:24So, let me bring in Saira Shahalim.
31:26Let me bring in Saira Shahalim.
31:28Let me bring in Saira Shahalim.
31:30Let me bring in Saira Shahalim.
31:31Let me bring in Saira Shahalim.
31:33Saira Shahalim, you know, we understand it's…
31:36One moment, please.
31:38Saira Shahalim, you know, many would say that this is a repeat of 2011 in Bengal.
31:44Whenever the party shifts, power shifts and this is what happens.
31:49The entire party, the previous party, which was in power, collapses.
31:53It has happened with the left.
31:56Well, Maria, one thing that everyone on the panel will agree upon, that in 2011,
32:02when the left was voted out of power, none of the leaders were accused of rampant corruption,
32:09tola bazi, or any such scams like the education scam, the chit fund scam,
32:14and none of them had to face this under, you know, what you call, attack or any other attack.
32:20And let me, again, I trade this egg attack was reprehensible.
32:24And any attack on an elected legislator, MP, MLA is equally, equally, you know, reprehensible.
32:34Now, let us look to the high-octane drama theater that everyone is witnessing every day since BGP came into
32:43power in West Bengal, okay?
32:44Let's look at the split.
32:46Let's look at the political deserters and the scramble by a syndicate to save its own skin.
32:51Because now, the opposition for a very long time has consistently said one thing, that the Trinamol Congress is not
32:59a cohesive political party.
33:01It is an opportunistic umbrella, you know, and it is very clear now, everyone can see.
33:09Because you look at the ground-level TMC workers, there's a lot of dissent there.
33:13Because here they feel that they have built the party with their blood, toil and tears.
33:19And they've been, they are realizing that they're completely shortchanged by the high command.
33:24So there's a lot of, what do you call, dissent.
33:29There's a lot of unrealized expectations out there.
33:33Now, if you talk about Abhishek Manerji and the inner circle, I feel, and it has been alleged that he
33:42is using political victimization and the ED card as a human shield, okay?
33:48And let's be very, very honest about one thing, that the regional satraps, the TMC workers, and everyone, you know,
33:57they are all very, very angry.
34:00Because suddenly the party changed hands.
34:03And they are being, having to bear the brunt of whatever transpired with the post-poll violence.
34:09And people are very unhappy because Abhishek Manerji and his corporate political consultants have used IPAC.
34:18And they brought in this corporate culture to distribute tickets, monetize local governance and siphon off money.
34:25We saw how the education scam rolled out.
34:29Pots and pots of money was found in the education minister's house and his various other alleged, you know, women
34:36friends.
34:36And I think that is really unfortunate because here now, there's a pressure of the enforcement direct rate and the
34:44CBI.
34:45They all are closing in.
34:47And the top leadership is trying to hide behind the emotion of Banglaar, Niger, Mayke, Chai, right?
34:53And also, you know, they are orchestrating these, it's alleged they're orchestrating these attacks.
35:00No, but the point here is, but the point is something else.
35:05I'm asking you, Saira, as someone who comes from the left background, is this an opportunity for left in the
35:13Congress?
35:14A hundred percent, because, you know, if you look at the right in West Bengal, TMC per se does not
35:22have any political ideology to find that.
35:24So, TMC doesn't really have a political ideology and you sense an opportunity.
35:28So, yes, come in please, Riju Dutta first and then I bring in…
35:32Definitely, there is an opportunity there and I feel the left, it's time for them to rebuild, recapture and go
35:40back…
35:40Okay, Sanju, I'm coming to you, let me bring in Riju Dutta.
35:42Riju Dutta, so would you agree that the TMC was essentially a party of opportunists, as Ayra Shah Haleem says,
35:50and in that way you'll also be seen as an opportunist, somebody who never believed in any ideology?
35:56No, see, Maria, I'm very fond of Shaira Adi, I know her personally, but talking about opportunism, corruption, violence coming
36:05from communists is like Osama bin Laden preaching world peace.
36:09It does not go with them.
36:10You saw after they lost power in Kerala, when EDs tried to raid their ex-Chief Minister's house, what was
36:16unleashed?
36:16So, let's stay away from communism as much as possible in this country.
36:21But I will say this, that Trinomul Congress is a party of Momotab energy.
36:27Every Trinomul Kariyakarta, like BJP has an ideology, the communists have an ideology.
36:32Trinomul Kariyakarta's ideology is Momotab energy, there is no other separate ideology.
36:37Everybody from the top to bottom, we were or we are part of Trinomul Congress is only because of Momotab
36:44energy, nobody else.
36:45That you have to agree.
36:47And now people who have won on Trinomul tickets, they want to defect and form Asli Trinomul,
36:52but Asli Trinomul will always be Momotab energy, there is no doubt in it.
36:55But my question is, the question you asked, there is a different answer to it.
37:00If the left think that there is a vacuum that has been created after the loss of Trinomul Congress or
37:06Trinomul Congress crumbling,
37:07and if Congress wants to sweep in and get the minority MLAs of Trinomul Congress and form a regime or
37:13something,
37:13I am telling you, as far as I understand Bengal politics, whatever limited understanding I have,
37:18BJP is here to stay at least 10 years, five more years they can also extend.
37:242029, they are not going anywhere from the center.
37:26So, BJP is not going anywhere.
37:28The opposition can try and it is good for the democracy that the opposition becomes strong,
37:34but the reality is BJP is here to stay in Bengal. That is what the Bengal's history of politics says.
37:39You know, this is the kind of debate that I am sure Sanju Verma would love.
37:46I mean, Riju Datta and you have been at Loggerheads for years now,
37:50and here is Riju Datta saying that BJP is here to stay.
37:54Not just in Bengal, but to provide.
37:56Now I am free from the shackle of the party line, so I can speak my mind.
38:00Okay. So this is you speaking your mind.
38:03Maria, I have to say one thing to you.
38:05This is how you speak.
38:06Even when Riju Datta and me were at Loggerheads with each other,
38:10Riju has consistently on national television said Sanju Verma is my favorite BJP spokesperson.
38:16He said this over and over again, despite me not being very gracious to him.
38:21So I haven't forgotten that.
38:23So I will not needle him by calling him a suspended TMC leader.
38:29Now let me move on to, on a lighter note,
38:33let me move on to the more serious aspect of this debate, Maria.
38:37Because you know, mostly the people are at Loggerheads,
38:40so we really have slight moments.
38:42You know, I would say one thing to you.
38:45Is there space for the Congress party in West Bengal?
38:48No.
38:49They got a measly two seats.
38:51Is there space for the left?
38:53No.
38:54They got one royal seat.
38:57The Congress and the left are done and dusted.
39:01It's still just the TMC and BJP, which are forces to reckon with.
39:06But the TMC is crumbling under its own weight.
39:09Point number one.
39:10Point number two.
39:11I just want to say this.
39:13Forgery case.
39:15Coal scam.
39:17Hawala racket.
39:18Money laundering involving IPAC.
39:20Cash for job scam.
39:22Abhishek Banerjee is wanted in all these ghotalas.
39:27So to cry now, after a few unders have been thrown at him,
39:31is simply stretching one's imagination too far.
39:34You can't fool the voter.
39:35They can see through the facade of a Mamata Begum.
39:39And they can see through the charlatan that Abhishek Banerjee is.
39:42No, no, no.
39:43This is very bad language.
39:44You look at BJP's victory's magnitude.
39:49That is very important to be reinforced.
39:52288 out of 294 seats, 71% strike rate.
39:56Today you have become a Balatkari Janta party.
39:59You think you're UP.
40:00You have become, you have become, you have become a nightmare for the Hawker.
40:07Okay, let's have Sanjeev Verma on the screen.
40:09Let's have only Sanjeev Verma on the screen.
40:11And then I'll go to the TMC spokesperson.
40:14Please go ahead.
40:16I just want to say one thing.
40:19The Bengal people have said Tata bye-bye to Congress.
40:23Tata bye-bye to left.
40:25You can come and ask, you know, oh, we have an opportunity.
40:28False bravado is, you know, nothing to boast about.
40:32Janta sab janti hai.
40:34Janta janardhan hai.
40:35Janta sikandar hai.
40:36Jo jita wo sikandar hai.
40:3871% strike rate in Bengal elections with 208 out of 294 seats.
40:43Thanks to BJP's top leadership.
40:468 out of 11 seats in Kolkata region with a strike rate of more than 75%.
40:52And then, of course, we won 67 out of 84 reserved seats.
40:57Again, a 73% strike rate.
40:59And we won 22 out of the 34 seats where women contested from,
41:04which is again a 65% strike rate.
41:07When you have a basic strike rate of 71% across genres,
41:13across demographic groups, across clusters,
41:17it only shows one thing, Mariya.
41:19People were fed up.
41:21There comes a time,
41:22when people say,
41:23now it's been great.
41:25Now,
41:25PMC atyachar se,
41:27Hameh bachayye.
41:28Bhaipo se,
41:29Hameh bachayye.
41:30Tishii se,
41:31Hameh bachayye.
41:32So, Pishii chor.
41:33Pishii chor.
41:34Bhaipo chor.
41:35Bhaipo chor.
41:36TMC chor.
41:37TMC chor.
41:38These were the slogans when Mahua Maitra was alighting from an aircraft.
41:43What did she say?
41:43BJP goons were heckling me.
41:46Madam,
41:47wake up and smell the coffee.
41:49Okay.
41:49I have just enough time.
41:51I have just enough time for the TMC spokesperson,
41:55Dr. Manav Jaiswal.
41:56Dr. Manav Jaiswal,
41:58here is the crisis.
42:00Perhaps the former West Bengal Chief Minister did not see coming.
42:05It's huge.
42:07The most trusted people of Mahmata Banerji
42:11are also, it seems, deserting her.
42:15We haven't seen the closest aides
42:18and perhaps the most vociferous of her supporters of recent years
42:22in, you know, around her, even when the protests happened today.
42:27Where are they?
42:29You have to understand two things.
42:31You have to have two dimensions in one thing.
42:34TMC has lost.
42:35And nobody, nobody, none of the media channels, none of them
42:39have thought about this magnanimous win of the BJP.
42:43Sanju Verma is very articulate about all the data.
42:46But there is one seat called Gopalpur Rajara.
42:49There is a, there is a booth number 165.
42:52There is 66 voters.
42:55Of that 91% voters are Muslim.
42:58And 97% vote was received by the BJP on the 5th of May.
43:03This is the management of the BJP.
43:06On the 4th of May, the 17, after the 17 rounds, the counting was tough.
43:12How come on the 18th of May, when the counting opened,
43:14Dr. Manav Jaiswal, you know, when, when, when, you know,
43:18instead of questioning the rounds and you should approach the election commission,
43:22you have all the right.
43:23No, there is a problem because you get your time and you're questioning
43:27the mandate of the people of Bengal, sir.
43:30No, no, no.
43:30Listen, there's not a mandate of the people.
43:32There's a mandate of the management.
43:34Okay.
43:34We are done with this conversation.
43:36Sanju Verma, Dr. Manav Jaiswal, Sahira Shah, Haleem and Rijudatta,
43:39really appreciate your time.
43:40Thank you so much.
43:41Perhaps, you know, it would do Trinamul Congress some good if they understand
43:45that why is the, what were the reasons that TMC lost power in Bengal
43:51rather than blaming it on what they are calling management or some kind of,
43:55you know, fixing of elections.
43:57On that note, we are slipping into a short break coming up next.
44:00It's a widening conflict and perhaps escalating tensions as well.
44:05And now questions are being raised whether one of the world's closest
44:08political partnerships is beginning to crack.
44:11For years, President Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu have stood shoulder to shoulder
44:18projecting an image of unwavering support and strategic alignment.
44:21But recent developments suggest all may not be well behind the scenes.
44:25A phone call between the two leaders has sparked fresh speculation.
44:29Trump claims Netanyahu agreed to rein in military action in Lebanon.
44:35Netanyahu, however, has publicly maintained that Israel will keep striking as long as Hezbollah
44:42attacks continue.
44:43Reports indicate the conversation grew heated with Trump reportedly calling Netanyahu crazy.
44:50So are these merely tactical differences between allies?
44:53Or does this signal a deeper divide at a crucial stage of the war?
44:57We'll discuss that with our guests.
44:59But first up, the report.
45:07Conversations between two of the world's closest allies don't appear to be friendly anymore.
45:15US President Donald Trump and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu held a phone call
45:20which Trump says was very productive.
45:22But if reports are to be believed, it was a tense exchange to say the least.
45:27Trump claimed that after their conversation, Netanyahu agreed to pull back any troops that
45:32were preparing to attack southern Lebanon.
45:35Trump also said that he spoke with Iran-aligned Lebanese militia group Hezbollah through intermediaries
45:40and secured a pledge that it would not attack Israel.
45:46But Netanyahu posted soon after that he told Trump that they will continue to attack Beirut
45:51if Hezbollah does not stop its attacks on Israeli cities.
45:57Israel's security minister even said that now is the time for Netanyahu to say no to Trump
46:02and continue strikes on Hezbollah.
46:05But this is not where the disagreements end.
46:09Hours after the two nations made their positions clear,
46:12an Axios report quoted US officials saying that the call between Trump and Netanyahu
46:17was in fact an expletive-laden one.
46:21The call was prompted after Iran threatened to stop negotiating with the US
46:25due to Israel's action on Lebanon.
46:29A miffed Trump therefore reportedly lashed out at Netanyahu over the escalation and yelled
46:34at him calling him crazy.
46:37According to the report, Trump felt that Netanyahu was reacting disproportionately and accused him
46:42of being ungrateful saying he would have been in prison if not for the United States.
46:48The report even quoted Trump telling Netanyahu that everybody hates him and Israel because of this.
46:57Israel and Lebanon are set to begin another round of talks in Washington DC.
47:01But with Netanyahu facing intense pressure at home to continue attacks,
47:05will he heed Trump's call to stop the military action in Lebanon?
47:10Puro Report, India Today.
47:16And joining me on the show tonight, Brian Clark, Senior Fellow and Director,
47:20Centre for Defence Concepts and Technology at Hudson Institute.
47:24He's joining me from Washington DC.
47:26David Matlin is news anchor, Israeli affairs and also an expert,
47:31perhaps also a lecturer from Tel Aviv.
47:34David, you are in Tel Aviv.
47:36Reports describe a very heated call where Donald Trump reportedly yelled at Prime Minister Netanyahu,
47:44calling him crazy, asking what the hell is he doing and saying everybody hates Israel because of this.
47:51How is this exchange landing in Israel right now among officials, the public and also the security establishment?
48:00Well, first of all, it's not the first time that reports have emerged claiming to sow discord
48:08or reveal discord between these two leaders, even to an extreme degree.
48:13So especially in the context of this war, it's been hard to get truly accurate information from the reporting.
48:19Look, someone did obviously tell this Axios reporter these things about the conversation here in Israel.
48:27We can only hope that it's not accurate because obviously this is an ugly conversation being reported between these two
48:33close allies.
48:34President Trump is widely beloved in Israel for his unwavering support for us here in Israel, especially during times of
48:42war.
48:42But of course, what's being reported is ugly.
48:45And all we can say is we hope that the conversation didn't really go this way.
48:50At the same time, there's a boiling over frustration here in the country, no doubt, with the fact that it
48:56appears that our hands here in Israel
48:58to truly defend ourselves and make our neighborhood livable next door to Hezbollah are being tied, that our hands are
49:05being tied by the president, perhaps in negotiations with the terrorist Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps in Tehran.
49:13So they're making it a central demand that we stop fighting their terror proxy that's on our back doorstep.
49:19I really hope it's not true. We all hope it's not true in Israel that the U.S. would acquiesce
49:24to such a demand. We'll see.
49:26Okay. Brian, Donald Trump has still framed the call as productive.
49:31He has claimed he convinced Netanyahu to turn troops around from Beirut and through intermediaries.
49:39He got Hezbollah to agree to stop shooting if Israel does. How should this be seen? How realistic is verifying
49:48and enforcing that kind of agreement or arrangement?
49:52Look, we've been in a series of arrangements, usually brokered and sanctioned by the U.N. Security Council since the
50:00year 2000.
50:01That's the question to Brian.
50:04Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead.
50:05Yeah, please. Go ahead, Brian.
50:07Yeah, and I agree with David. I think you've got to take these reports with a grain of salt because
50:12there's plenty of people that are trying to introduce some friction between the allies.
50:17I think that the U.S. probably is reaching out to try to solve the crisis and reach some kind
50:24of agreement because the incentives for the United States are to get out of the conflict and try to restore
50:29access to the Strait of Hormuz and the Persian Gulf because it's impacting the U.S. economy.
50:34It's impacting the world economy. So the U.S. has obviously got incentives that maybe are different than what Israel
50:40does, and that's why you've got this friction starting to develop.
50:44But I think it's probably being exaggerated by those who are making the reports about these phone calls.
50:52From a U.S. defense strategy viewpoint, Brian Clark, Trump is using American leverage to push de-escalation in Lebanon
51:01to protect bigger negotiations with Iran.
51:05Is this a small tradeoff or does it risk perhaps weakening long-term deterrence against Hezbollah and Iranian proxies?
51:16Well, it certainly might weaken deterrence against Iranian proxies.
51:21And I think the issue is for the U.S., maybe this isn't a big deal to negotiate with Hezbollah
51:27and negotiate with Iran and give it the ability to continue to use its proxies.
51:31But I'm sure for Israel it's a much bigger deal because this is the threat that they're facing in their
51:35neighborhood.
51:36And that's kind of the problem with the point we are in the conflict where the U.S.'s incentives are
51:41to end it and restore normal economic activity.
51:45And the threat from Hezbollah and Iranian proxies is pretty low here in the United States.
51:51And I think there's going to have to be some reconciliation between what the president and the U.S. wants
51:56and what Israel wants.
51:58Because right now Israel is going to be left holding the bag if the U.S. decides to pull out.
52:06David, Donald Trump has reportedly reminded Netanyahu of past support.
52:13How does this very personal and blunt style of diplomacy affect Israeli trust in the U.S. alliance?
52:19You have obviously said that these are certain rumors or stories that keep coming up.
52:25But they have had a very different equation from what it appears because of this conversation.
52:39David, if you heard me.
52:41There have been disagreements.
52:43And there have been obvious.
52:45If you can hear me okay.
52:46Yeah, there have been.
52:47Yes, I heard you.
52:49I heard you.
52:49Sorry about any issues there.
52:51But there have been disagreements.
52:53There have been points, as Brian highlights here, that U.S. and Israeli strategy and policy may not always completely
53:02align.
53:03We may have, say, four out of five points of alignment.
53:07But there may not always be total alignment.
53:09And that's usual between allies at this point.
53:12But in terms of these frictions and what's being reported, we don't know.
53:17I don't think we're getting the full picture at this point.
53:19We have seen on the ground and seen since the beginning of this conflict that Israel and the U.S.,
53:24in particular the militaries, are very, very well.
53:31So, we've seen people that, again the president, which has taken a hard line on Hezbollah and on their hijacking
53:40of Lebanon that they're not about to walk away.
53:43Yeah.
53:43Okay, Brian, 30 seconds to you. Donald Trump has long emphasized peace through strength, and he has been wanting allies
53:51to handle more of their own security. Here he directly intervened to scale back Israeli operations. Does this strengthen U
54:00.S. leverage overall, especially as America, I would say, focuses on China or send mixed signals to partners?
54:12I think it definitely lowers U.S. leverage overall, because you've got a situation where the U.S. clearly wants
54:19to extract itself from a conflict that's become more protracted than, I guess, the U.S. leadership had anticipated. And
54:26if you're China, you're Russia, you might look at this and say the U.S. doesn't really have the staying
54:31power to stick with a conflict if it starts to become prolonged and may try to get allies to go
54:39along with that.
54:39So I think if you're looking at this and you're in Japan even, or you're in Taiwan, you might say,
54:45well, how strong an ally is the U.S. going to be if we get into a protracted confrontation with
54:49China over like a Taiwan blockade?
54:52So I think it definitely doesn't help U.S. credibility going forward if the U.S. tries to get out
54:58of this conflict through some kind of negotiated settlement that tacitly allows Iran to continue doing everything it did before.
55:06Okay, Brian Clark and David Matlin, really appreciate your time. Thank you for joining us here on India today. And
55:13thank you for sharing that view and breaking down that conversation which has happened between Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu.
55:21That's all from me on this edition of the News Track. I'll be seeing you tomorrow. Thanks so much for
55:25watching.
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